Get Premium
Dark mode theme is available exclusively for premium users. Learn more about the benefits of subscribing.
No fees, cancel anytime.
Dark Mode 
No fees, cancel anytime 
then open in external browser
and click "Open in External Browser" 
“It Makes Us Feel Like Creeps”: 25 Men Share Their Issues With Modern Dating
Interview With Expert
The way that dating works seems to change every generation. Gone are the days of asking for a cute stranger's number, calling them up on their landline and asking them to meet you at the local diner for a burger and a milkshake. Nowadays, the dating world is a minefield of apps, sliding into DMs, playing it cool and “talking” for months before officially being in a relationship.
Navigating this rugged terrain isn’t easy for anyone, so men have recently been opening up on Reddit about the most frustrating issues they’ve encountered while trying to date. From misunderstandings to ever-changing preferences from women, we’ve gathered some of their most popular replies below. Enjoy scrolling through, whether you’re still in the dating pool or not, and keep reading to find a conversation with dating and relationships coach Rachel New!
This post may include affiliate links.
#1
I went out with a woman a few times and enjoyed her company. She told me she was casually seeing a few guys. So I backed off. That’s not my thing. She later reached out again and expressed that she considered herself “old school” and that I needed to pursue her if I wanted it to happen. I told her that I don’t chase women. Especially one that is not giving me her undivided attention. I’m not going to compete for her affection, I’d rather be alone.
Glasofruix 1 year ago
I knew a few women who liked to have options and backups, but were throwing a fit everytime one of their backups found himself a girlfriend because she liked her men to compete in order to win her over... Most men don't play those kind of games and when they see a woman they are trying to pursue hook up with another dude they back off and some women don't like that.
Kelly Scott 1 year ago
I see nothing wrong with either men or women dating several people at the same time. I mean, just because I go out on a date with you doesn't make me your exclusive property. And while I'm not obligated to tell you I'm dating multiple men, if you asked me, I'd tell you. And I'd expect you NOT to get your bowels in an uproar when I do. You're not the center of the universe. Dating different people is how you find out whether or not you're compatible. And if I thought one man stood out more than the rest, I would make an effort for him, the same way I expect a man to make an effort for me if he thought I was "the one". If you're not going to do that, then you need to wear a "Friends Only" T-shirt on all your dates.
Anyone-for-tea? 1 year ago
Exactly. And I believe it’s the advice given online dating is to keep your options open. I find it hard though as I only like to go on dates with one person at a time, but I wouldn’t care if the other person was dating multiple women. If I was to want any intimacy with that person I would be adult enough to have the conversation that I only do that if I’m exclusive with someone.
Load More Replies...
AnonymousApple 1 year ago
I was floored when a woman I'd been talking to online chastised me for not messaging her when I knew she was at work. When I pointed out that I knew she wouldn't see the message for several hours so why not just wait until she wasn't at work and could respond, she said that she wanted to see that I'd sent messages because she liked to be "chased" and I needed to show I was putting in the effort. I quit talking to her.
Nicholas Yu 1 year ago
It's 2024...not 1955. Women have jobs and educations. Which means they make their own money. If my money is "our" money but your money is your money...I want nothing to do with you.
Averysleepypanda 1 year ago
Eh, I disagree with this one. When you're first seeing people I think it's fair not to be exclusive until the relationship progresses and you have a conversation on where you want the relationship to go.
Belladonna.dreams 1 year ago
I %100 respect that. I shouldn't have to chase and neither should the other person. Plus, I've noticed that someone who has to be chased always has to feel that way. They like options and get bored easily
Soleil SanMao 1 year ago
But at least she was honest. How many women thought they were the only one and found out later they were auditioning?
Ephemera Image 1 year ago
I guess she bases her self-worht on how hard she's being chased by several men, lol.
RELATED:
#2
Trust me, men do NOT like it when women (like those your husband is friends with) play “hard to get.” It’s degrading, dehumanizing, and makes us feel like creeps. Women who act this way are really not worth our time and effort, anyway.
ThatG 1 year ago
It was a comment on a Reddit post where the OP said her husband has a lot of female friends and they often come a cry to him because men don’t chase them anymore after they turned them down.
Load More Replies... Kelly Scott 1 year ago
On the other hand, when we think you're a creep and don't want anything to do with you and have told you that many times, we're not "playing hard to get".
"Disembodied voice" 1 year ago
I had issues with an Ex who didn't like that I wouldn't "fight for her". I want to trust that you are with me because you like me, don't play mind games.
StrangeOne 1 year ago
Fellow women, everywhere. Stop making men beg for you. It's pathetic on both ends. If he's into you, he'll let you know. There's no hint or mind games about it. Unless he's a player, but you can usually pick those guys out of the crowd.
Jeanette Thompson 1 year ago
Despite what rom coms (especially older ones) would have us believe, it's not 'romantic' to chase after someone who rejected you or shows little interest in you.
Nikki Gross 1 year ago (edited)
This is where WOMEN are the ones that p**s me off! You may think it's fun to tell a guy to try harder. But the next woman that comes along that says NO and means it, Now has to deal with a guy that thinks NO, means YES I want you to keep chasing me. Before I figured out and found a word that fit me (I'm Asexual ) I was always upfront about not being interested in getting married or having kids. For the record I'm not interested in sex or " romance " of any kind and I'm happily single and staying that way. But I unfortunately encountered more than one guy that thought he could change my mind. Like I'm going to magically change what I've said since I was 12 years old. The point is that your little game, to make men think that they can change your mind has lasting consequences. Stop with the f*****g b******t and be straight forward about what you REALLY want from a partner, whether that is a Man or Woman.
Philly Bob Squires 1 year ago
No, means no nowadays, so if you say no... I'm out. Don't f*****g come at me later and say "you didn't try hard enough!"
#3
A lot of my gal pals are in relationships that they're absolutely miserable in (example: she has to lie to her boyfriend to hang out with literally anyone because "she's bi and she could cheat on him with anyone"), but won't leave because it's "better than nothing and they're waiting for someone better to come along". I almost died from the looks alone when I asked if "someone better" was the type of person who went after a woman in a committed relationship...
As for chasing a woman after she turns me down, absolutely not. You all spent the last 10 years drilling into our heads that No Means No and if you say No that's that.
A woman put it best: "Guys don't want to chase, they want to play Tag. You need to chase them too".
Philly Bob Squires 1 year ago
Read my comment above or on another post. No means no! And if WE don't get that no means no, we're creepy etc. But then come back and say "you didn't try hard enough??" No, I don't need you accusing me of being a creep / stalker / rapist / etc.
Sven Horlemann 1 year ago
Agree to all 3. The first one sounds like a lose-lose. A pity to live your life like that.
To learn more about the difficulties that men encounter when dating today, we reached out to dating and relationships coach Rachel New, who was kind enough to share her thoughts with Bored Panda.
First, Rachel noted that not knowing what the “rules” are is a common frustration for not only heterosexual men, but heterosexual women as well. "These men complain that they don’t know whether to take it slow (at both the messaging stage and moving the dates along to intimacy) and that women expect them to read their minds," the expert explained.
"And some of these women worry that they will come across as too keen if they want to meet up rather than message a lot, or that the man will think they aren’t interested if they take longer to be ready to meet or don’t want to kiss on a first date," Rachel says.
"Men are also expected to take the initiative to arrange the date, but can be criticized for 'taking over' or being too controlling or assertive," she continued. "And when they arrange the date, often the woman will not like what he has planned, particularly if it involves food."
#4
Girls think that I am supposed to chase them. Jump through hoops to gain their approval. Nope. I match your energy and if you don't reciprocate I have zero patience for it. If they were genuinely interested they would put in tons more effort.
similarly 1 year ago
I see nothing wrong with this. A relationship needs to feel equal, and if it doesn't, maybe the couple are not really compatible.
Anyone-for-tea? 1 year ago
I’ve found my conversations soon disappear on dating apps when I match their energy! But I guess it’s not wasting mine in the long run.
Load More Replies...
Vanessa MacKenzie 1 year ago
As a woman, I actually don't see the signs you're interested. Just like men say, they don't see it, you have to tell some of us you're interested too ;)
LJ Robinson 1 year ago
I would prefer not to set up the hoops. It's a waste of time and energy. I want someone real, not someone who will pass tests. There are some issues that can seem like tests, ( money and how it's handled, possible children, that sort of thing) that need to be agreed on, but for the most part, I like men in the semi-wild.
Kelly Scott 1 year ago
What are you? A Grade A Hollywood actor who thinks every woman is dying to sleep with you?
#5
From my perspective as a man, it is extremely difficult to know what a woman wants. So the chase is off the table because it is an extreme gamble of either successful getting a date or being labelled a creep. The chase should not be a thing because, as a guy, I will play it better safe than sorry. Communication is necessary. Don't make it harder by expecting me to understand vague hints. Direct communication is the best way to get what you want.
My gripe with dating apps is that a majority of women's profiles just have their snapchat or Instagram handle, and they expect me to text them on those apps. Why the heck should I have to use another app's texting feature when one exists on the dating app?
censorshipsucks 1 year ago
No if a woman has an instagram handle and doesn't want to communicate via the Tinder app, it means she is an influencer looking for followers, nothing more. Really. "Influencers" post pix on Tinder to get thirsty guys to follow them on the 'gram.
🦄 Unicorn Princess 1 year ago
I feel like I'm the only person who doesn't have snapchat, Instagram etc.
ElfVibratorGlitter 1 year ago
I personally don't like chatting on dating apps because I have to turn on my location to use them and I'd rather just use my normal messaging system where I don't have to use my location.
Charles McChristy 1 year ago
Because you don't have to pay to chat on Instagram, genius. Also, that is the profile that will tell you the most about the person because that is what they spend the most time on.
Sarah Kathrin Matsoukis 1 year ago
I love to chat on websites and apps, I don't want to give out my actual number to everyone
HighNMightyBigshotBossOfWorld 1 year ago
Because you might none a future stalker snd she is giving you as little information as possible
#6
I learned to avoid women that want a guy to chase them like the plague in middle school. This type of woman isn’t chasing love, she’s chasing anxiety.
It’s really the most toxic and unattractive thing a woman can do. Especially in a world of “no means no” and #metoo.
The dating expert also noted that finding a partner today might be even harder than it was in the past. "These expectations for men to have a good income, take the lead, and be physically attractive have been around for centuries, but now there is an added desire for men to be confident and strong and comfortable with emotions and being vulnerable!" Rachel shared.
While there are some men that get a lot of attention on dating apps without much effort, that's not the case for everyone. "There is another subset of men that never get any matches or messages, partly because of the superficial nature of dating apps that are so focused on appearance," Rachel noted. "Research shows that men that have more to offer (skills of emotional connection, humor, empathy, listening skills, ability to take advice and change their views or behavior, and so on) will do better meeting people in real life."
#7
How often women ghost. I don't much care about getting rejected, sure it sucks but it's an expectation we have going into dating, it's going to happen quite a lot. But for the love of god, reject me in any way except for ghosting.
At least if I get blocked, or insulted, or politely put down, I know the other person's intentions and can move on with my life. If I'm ghosted out of the blue, I have no way of knowing if the other person has moved on, or is just too busy to contact me, or is playing hard to get. I'd take getting directly rejected 100 times over the ambiguity of getting ghosted by someone I was interested in.
Edit: obviously ghosting is acceptable if the other person doesn't take no for an answer or otherwise makes you uncomfortable.
The Other Guest 1 year ago
Search "women killed for saying no" and perhaps the reason many women ghost someone will become a bit more clear.
Foxglove🇮🇪 1 year ago
The number of times I was ghosted as a young woman, back before there was a name for it. One date, I'll call you, nothing ever again.
Zedrapazia 1 year ago
Ghosting (as in the sense of just rather not speaking to a person anymore instead of ending a relationship or clarifying there's no more interest) is not even good for you mentally speaking, because it won't let you finish something so it remains lingering in your head. Which means that it takes a lot longer for your brain to deal with and finish the experience than if you'd have just pulled a finish line and said it.
Granny's Thoughts 1 year ago
After 8 months of dating (every Friday night and other special occasions) he just ghosted me. It's not just women doing this to men.
CaptainSlapNTickle 1 year ago
Communication and respect is a two way street. I don't know one adult guy who wouldn't at least sleep better knowing the actual truth, instead of speculating or guessing "what happened"? ". I'm not referring to "incel's" because they're not "adults". The same honesty you demand from us should be reciprocal.
Tracy Wallick 1 year ago
Far too many men respond to rejection with abuse, and sometimes even violence. I'm not willing to endure that sh!t yet again for anyone.
Matthew Barabas 1 year ago
ghosting is by far the worst thing one can do. its ok to reject. its ok to tell them you are busy. if they dont get it, block them. its extremely simple and easy.
#8
I have a playstation if I want to play games. If I'm into you, I'll tell you.
Dawn Thomas-Cameron 1 year ago
"Come over to my house," or "Can I come to your house," is not an appropriate way to tell a woman you're into them. Especially on the first encounter.
CaptainSlapNTickle 1 year ago
Well you just escalated that rather quickly. The guy was talking about not playing games.
Load More Replies... Anyone-for-tea? 1 year ago
If you have a PlayStation please date me! I would love a partner who is into gaming as well. I have had jobs where no one was into gaming and it was almost a secret of mine! Although I know that’s not the point of this post…but still.
#9
That women want you to approach them but are unapproachable at the same time.
similarly 1 year ago
Get to know them first. Easier to tell if they want to be friends or more.
Averysleepypanda 1 year ago
This is a bit vague. What, in OP'S opinion, makes them unapproachable?
Kelly Scott 1 year ago
I don't like being backed into a corner to be approached. And I'm not a dog. "Come" "Sit" "Stay" "Heel" doesn't work with me.
HighNMightyBigshotBossOfWorld 1 year ago (edited)
Notice how none of these men blame other men for women being cautious
But not everything about modern dating has made men's lives more difficult. "On the other hand, dating apps do make it easier for men to approach women without having to worry that they’re harassing them," Rachel says. "If you’re at the gym, at work or in a bar or café, it’s difficult to know whether talking to a woman is appropriate or an invasion of privacy, and of course, you don’t know if the woman is open to dating. (This applies to all genders and orientations, of course – but for heterosexual men, there is another layer of concern about safety and privilege.)"
#10
Only issue I've had is in gauging how quickly to escalate. Some women seem to lose interest if you move too slow, others get turned off if you push too quickly. Online dating really exaggerates this because you can't get feedback from body language during the conversation.
similarly 1 year ago
One word: communication. Talk to your partner. If a person is not able to talk about intimacy, they're not ready for it.
Ken Beattie 1 year ago
And sometimes the simple act of talking about it scares people off. As you say they may not be ready for it, but that doesn't mean the guy isn't happy to wait.
Load More Replies...
Cosmikid 1 year ago
It' called individuality. And bear in mind the individual you are talking with this week will be a different individual next week. Every one of us.
Load More Replies... Cherry Lane 1 year ago
There is a research that most women need at least 36 hours to feel comfortable. Of course there are people who go faster and others will go slower.
michelle s 1 year ago
You want to talk about confusion and mixed signals. Try a guy that gives you all the escalation signals that he wants something sexual with the text and photo languages and then farts around taking it slowly in getting to the deed. Leaving someone wondering what the f is this!
Averysleepypanda 1 year ago
This isn't a "women vs men issue". People have different preferences and comfort levels.
#11
The god-awful grueling scrutiny. Whatever happened to just two people having fun? Instead, you turn a date into a job interview nightmare with a bunch of gotcha questions and a 5-year plan.
Fox with a Dragon Tattoo 1 year ago (edited)
Far more often than you realize clearly, its also a completely one sided interview.
Load More Replies...
censorshipsucks 1 year ago
Nah I am ok with it being an interview. We both know what we are interviewing for. It's pretty clear. Especially if it's after Tinder meeting. Because going out with a work colleague for coffee or whatever is totally ambiguous and leads to coffee date after coffee date of awkward pussyfooting around. I don't have the energy for that. I'm not even talking about friendzone, I am talking when you first show interest. I'd rather just know why we are there, and that it is in fact an interview.
Pittsburgh rare 1 year ago
Yeah well. In my experience, the "go with the flow" men didn't want to disclose much about them either because they were somehow committed or because they were just looking for sex. So I won't interrogate anyone but if after a few dates you don't share significant bits of you l'm out. I don't dare for hookups so there's that.
Lola July 1 year ago
Try a short coffee before a planned activity. It lessens interrogation time. Perhaps a movie, a walk, bowling, an escape room, go see a local site etc., nothing expensive just low stress casually spending time a little talking seeing if you enjoy each other. Also if you're not enjoying each other it is not hours spent together over dinner, nor an expensive meal. A fast getaway...
#12
I spent a week talking to you and asked if you’d like to meet and talk more. You went silent.
I moved on to another match. You came back a week later and asked how I was doing.
Are you dumb? Or are men that desperate to talk to a woman online and will forgive ghosting and making me wait on you hand and foot on your “precious” time as if my time isn’t valuable at all.
If you wonder why men don’t respond to you after you’ve made us wait a few days for a simple response, it’s because those are the good ones. We didn’t respond because you made us wait for a f*****g sentence.
Sven Horlemann 1 year ago
...answer a week later. I have a tendency to treat people exactly how they treat me. That raises some eyebrows. Most get it, though (this is not just dating related).
Ephemera Image 1 year ago
Then either explain asap, or do not go back expecting the guy to jump after being ignored for a week for any reason. If the 'trauma' was that great you wouldn't exactly be in a great mindset for dating, would you? Flu doesn't preclude texting. Geez.
Load More Replies...
Kelly Scott 1 year ago
I forgot my best friend's birthday when I broke my ankle, had surgery, and had to go to a nursing home for 2 months. Things happen.
Load More Replies... The dating expert also shared some of the best advice she has for men dating in this modern world. "It’s helpful to understand that we can all be too judgmental about small things because they remind us of something that happened in a previous dating experience or relationship," Rachel says.
"We are vigilant because we want to protect ourselves from getting hurt or from disappointment. So when women say 'Don’t bother messaging me if …' on dating profiles, it sounds very intolerant but actually comes from a place of protection and empowerment: I deserve to be treated well and I’m not taking any risks," she explained.
#13
Modern dating is the most frustrating thing I've come across in modern dating.
Specifically how most people my age (20's) simply aren't trying to engage romantically outside of the s****y dating apps... and even if they do, the expectations are already so inflated by said apps it just becomes a frustrating ordeal for both parties.
Zedrapazia 1 year ago
You can actually still get lucky just doing a hobby where people come together. I got my fiance through Discord because we both like the same videogames, a friend of mine found someone by playing DND and another had a relationship that came to be because they both liked anime and somehow got together because she told a store clerk she wanted to build a Gundam and he had experience and overheard this.
LB 1 year ago
I found mine in a Buddhist monastery, of all places! It's funny because they (also) do really segregated gender things, but we're queer so yeah... that didn't stop us.
Load More Replies...
SPQRBob 1 year ago
I have never before felt so moved to suggest to another person in an online forum in as emphatically a manner as I can convey using the written word that they should, for the love of all that is good and holy in this world, go locate and then touch copious quantities of grass at their earliest convenience as I do in this very moment. Jesus-Tapdancing Christ, my friend! Put your phone in a drawer every once in a while or something. Let go!
Load More Replies... #14
Thank God I'm not dating anymore. My problem was the ridiculous double standards out there and the cherry picking of feminist ideals when it was convenient. If you wanted something, you're misogynistic. If you didn't give something they wanted, you weren't chivalrous. If you want sex, you're a f**k boy. If she wanted money, she's just someone who knows her worth, not a gold digger. She is worth everything just because. You gotta prove what you bring for her.
Ricardo Ferreira 1 year ago
I knew tons of women that behaved like that. They're all out of my life, thankyouverymuch.
Szzone 1 year ago (edited)
This happened: 1. Date brings me to super expensive place. 2. Tells me we should have burgers and non-alcoholoc drinks. 3. She expects me to pay. It's the end of the month. My own bill is already 1/5 of what I had in my bank account and payday was a week away. 4. She's perplexed when I don't pay her part and tells me I should have paid, and it's a feminist thing, because of the pay gapm 5. I told her that I am a feminist too and it doesn't work that way, and if she brought me to this place, she probably already has more money than me. I should have left then and there, it was a shitshow after that.
Fox with a Dragon Tattoo 1 year ago
Those aren't "feminist ideals" and the fact he doesn't understand that speaks volumes about him.
Beef Brisket 1 year ago
I think you misunderstood his point. He was talking about women who espouse "feminist ideals" but then behave in ways that are NOT feminist ideals. He's saying these behaviors he lists are not feminist ideas, so you're actually in agreement with him.
Load More Replies... #15
A lot of young women in my generation glorify cheating and have high expectations in what they want in a man but they don't meet those expectations themselves. That's why some of them get an older sugar daddy.
I worked at a predominantly woman dominated workplace for a number of years and some of these younger women will say s**t like they want a man that makes good money however they work a min wage job.
DC and S 1 year ago
As a woman in the same boat: a lot of this is universal; match but never responds, no effort, ghosting, lies/misleading, catfishing, Rejection frustration. The rest seems to be misconceptions. Most women don't want to be chased or set double standards. This is a reflection of an immature individual, as is any form of game and is the red flag you need to see. "you can't even talk to women anymore!" If you're coming across creepy, you're doing something wrong. Talk to us like we're humans with value outside of your physical interest. Like you, we want to be seen and heard. Of all the people you have ever known, how many would YOU date? Maybe 5%? Fact is most people you meet/match won't be interested in dating you (regardless of your gender). Looks may make a first impression but they are far from all that matters. Mutual interest and compatibility are rare. So sorting through all the weeds is par.for the course.
Cherry Lane 1 year ago
This. Bad apples ruin the whole damn dating scene.
Load More Replies...
The Starsong Princess 1 year ago
I find the opposite true. Women who are accomplished, have good jobs, hobbies, good relationships wit friends and family can’t find a man with those qualities.
Nicholas Yu 1 year ago
Any broke a*s woman that wants a rich man only has her body and looks to bring to the table. Sorry ladies, but looks fade but money collects interest and grows more over time...
Missy Moo Moo 1 year ago
Maybe if there wasn’t a gender pay disparity, women wouldn’t look to someone to support them?
Rachel also says that talking openly is the healthiest way to avoid these common misunderstandings and frustrations. "If you’re not sure whether you’re going too fast or slow, just ask 'What pace works best for you? I’ve found in the past that people vary in what they feel comfortable with, so it would be helpful for you to tell me if I’m going too slowly or quickly,'" the expert suggests. "It’s important that this is two-way: a woman who is in a good place for healthy dating will ask you back: 'What works best for you?'"
#16
The more I play into the f**kboy/player archetype, the better things go for me and while I do *like* when things go well for me, I don't like that it's because I embrace behaviors that I've been taught are counterproductive.
censorshipsucks 1 year ago
I think this may have more to do with the 'confidence energy' you put out rather than being a POS. Being a POS is never ok, being confident is.
AnonymousApple 1 year ago
When I was young and dumb I was attracted to f*ckboys, but these days I wouldn't touch one with a ten foot pole.
Cherry Lane 1 year ago
Well, if you are only after one thing. But most women get tired of being used and abused.
#17
If we approach it's "not appropriate and being creep even for something as small as Hi". If we don't approach then "how are you supposed to get into relationship if you don't approach". If we approach a women we know then they don't put the equal efforts and love the runner chaser dynamic.
If a women is interested in me then she won't put any efforts other than eye contact and later complain I don't get hints
and most of the women around me can't even hold conversations, others are just committed and not available.
V. M. 1 year ago (edited)
Regardless of gender approaching someone isn't inapproproate per se, it really depends on the situation. Are you going to approach them at a bar, a hobby, or another place where social interaction with strangers is generally accepted and will you leave them the fcku alone if they say they're not interested? Totally fine, go for it, rooting for you 🤞 Or are you going to approach them at their job or in a situation where it's very clear that they don't want interaction (e.g. wearing earphones). Then please just don't. It's really not that hard and I've never heard anyone complain about the former.
Pittsburgh rare 1 year ago
"most of the women around me can't even hold conversations" brain desert or incel? Hard to say 😂
Niamh Lavery 1 year ago
Enough girls who are single aren't about the chasing and attracting, so you'll be grand finding someone else
Philly Bob Squires 1 year ago
Woman drops something on the post office floor, I say "excuse me" And before I say "you dropped something" she's like " back up, I have a boyfriend." Well, I just walked away with that hundo yo dropped! Bish!
Ricardo Ferreira 1 year ago
"If a women is interested in me then she won't put any efforts other than eye contact and later complain I don't get hints" And telepathy. Don't forget, these kinda women expect us to know, magically, what's happening.
#18
Generally I feel like the bad guy and that I'm under the microscope being judged under the umbrella of "ugh, men". It's so assumed that I'm like that that I cannot do anything right. In general my goals with dating are to find a person I like, connect with and get into a long term commitment. I don't do ONS, I don't like people coming into my home really. But here's the experience, you meet a girl, you invite her out quickly. That's too quick and you're a man so you're just trying to get her into bed. So you slow down try to be a bit longer, leave it up to her. Nope that's indecisive, you need to be clear and know what you want. So you go down the middle and take it at a pace you're comfortable with. Nope wrong again you've got to do it at her pace which if faster than your pace is wrong again. You're just expected to get everything right first time. Combine this with actually trying to get a date and especially with online dating you'll never be good enough, ever. It's always going to be "your photos aren't good enough, your bio isn't quite right" so putting the effort in after the 4th or 5th redo is just incredibly frustrating. Generally the standards you're expected to meet vary so rapidly but are hyperspecific, so you cannot meet them.
Cosmikid 1 year ago
You need to get used to the fact that women who really WANT to be in a tight committed relationship - most likely ARE. The ones who are still "available" - ... may not sure they really want it - "The good ones are all taken" is a wail heard from all genders- and is not entirely untrue.
TruthoftheHeart 1 year ago (edited)
So ladies can't have opinions on a pic/ bio they like?? And the dude talks as if women arent scrutinized almost daily ever since childhood.
Crep 105 1 year ago
He never said that, tf? He's pointing out the ridiculous expectation that men always get it right the first time. And you add in that last sentence as if he's invalidating women just by sharing his experiences, which he isn't. However, I will point out that hearing about men's problems and immediately responding with "Oh yeah? Well women have to deal with that every day" IS invalidating.
Load More Replies...
Terry Tobias 1 year ago
Wow! Dating was much less stressful when I was younger, and that was before the internet so you didn't have a "profile" to look at beforehand. Things seemed easier and more fun than what I see now. I mean, you'd meet a guy, talked, if there was a connection you went out on a date. From there you both decided if you wanted to see where things went or not. Sure, ghosting and other things happened, but this poor guy is frozen from anxiety. Remind yourself that the fate of the world isn't resting on whether or not you get a date. Relax and just enjoy yourself!
Lola July 1 year ago
I have noticed that quite a few younger women only bring their youth and slightly good looks but believe they are beyond the average man. Why? They are just average, often disagreeable and demanding. Youth and beauty fades, if you want respect, the world laid at your feet you need to be a woman of value that is actually desirable, not precieved valuable. What your girlfriends say is what you want to hear, so unless men are beating down your door it's a Lie.
Averysleepypanda 1 year ago
I understand the confusion and frustration, but I wonder if a lot of this comes from people pleasing. You gotta accept people for what they are (not the same as being okay with it btw), and show up authentically. The right person will meet you halfway
Sven Horlemann 1 year ago
Photos? Bio? Ha ha, nice try. I'd say "Who are you to judge me?". Someone is missing a mirror at home...
Rachel shared that she often discusses with her straight male clients the need to understand what might be driving the expectations of the other person. "Expecting someone to read your mind is unrealistic and often comes from an unmet need for a responsive caregiver," she noted.
"As very young infants, we need our caregivers to know when we’re hungry, tired, too hot or cold or distressed, and to respond appropriately. We can only cry at that stage, so we need them to read our minds. If we experience that responsiveness and attunement as young infants, we can move onto more emotionally mature developmental stages where we can simply request what we need and not feel wounded when people don’t always 'get' us immediately," Rachel explained.
#19
Dinner-view culture and expectations.
Honestly, the ROI isn’t there. The issue is not the price. It’s the return. It’s emptying to watch someone pic over an expensive dish and making small talk.
I would rather pay for a ticketed event, go to a museum, or hike, bike, kayak, golf, volunteer, run a race, etc. I know that I’m going to enjoy those things. I see a lot of women doing those things happily as well. Unfortunately, I have felt and been told (in a round about way and directly) that companionship is earned.
A genuine connection is rare and you’re less likely to find it over a “dinner-view” (talking about divorces, dating broken divorcees, finances, time with children, etc). Being in my late 40s, it’s important to enjoy my time. I date less frequently and usually it’s a female friend who has “got this really nice friend” when I do.
Dawn Thomas-Cameron 1 year ago
I'd rather go out and do an activity other than f===ing, which is what the majority of guys, I find, want. Not that I'm a prude by any means but let's meet in public a couple times. Honestly.
Tara L. 1 year ago
The reason women prefer a dinner date the first few dates is because of safety. No one is going to go hiking with a man they just met, too many opportunities to be preyed upon with no witnesses.
Szzone 1 year ago
Getting a coffee in the afternoon at a coffee shop is just as safe, or actually safer, and doesn't include expensive dishes, and doesn't make him feel like he has to earn the companionship.
Load More Replies... Heidrance 1 year ago
I'm a little concerned by the transactional terminology... "return on investment" gives me the ick.
Kelly Scott 1 year ago
I personally don't jump into bed after the first date. Sometimes I don't jump into bed after the tenth date. I know there are women who do and whoopee for them - and you. But I like to go on dates to do something fun. I don't worry about the returns. It was fun or it wasn't. I don't want any expectation of owing anyone anything because we did something together. End of story. If you want something more, then tell me and we'll get that out of the way ahead of time. But if you want an instant f*ckbuddy, hire a hooker.
censorshipsucks 1 year ago
I don't agree with this one. I can't get to know someone over hiking or running, mostly because you're out of breath and grunting most of the time, hardly able to have a meaningful convo. I think convos about exes etc give you lots of info about how the person really is.
Ricardo Ferreira 1 year ago
Invite her to a walk in a park. If she says 'no', if she wants a date in an expensive restaurant, you doged a bullet.
The Starsong Princess 1 year ago
Most women prefer to meet a new guy in a public place like a restaurant or coffee shop. They don’t want to be dragged behind a bush.
Load More Replies... Cosmikid 1 year ago
Some people are "really into food" - and some are not. This can be discovered before the dinner date, for crying out loud. Though you can still blunder- it turned out, after 5 years of marriage, that Wife 1 - thought of food only as "fuel", where I consider it more of a sacrament. One of multiple factors in the split. And yes, there's a "spectrum"; I am not the biggest foodie I know, by far.
#20
Gotta say the most frustrating thing we've seen lately is the judgement and worrying about what others think. Whether it be family, friends, etc. Whatever happened to just being happy.
Danielle Dhaliwal (HikikoMori) 1 year ago
Depends on what you're being judged for? Multiple homicide or for being a dog person?
Sven Horlemann 1 year ago
The lack of self-confidence is a problem. You'all just relax. And be yourself.
#21
Women who show romantic interest and we grow closer together, but then when I try and take things to the next level, they pull back and say that they’re not emotionally ready to be in a relationship only to turn around and date someone else.
ElfVibratorGlitter 1 year ago
Yeah. They started over with someone who wasn't pressuring them to "go to the next level".
Cherry Lane 1 year ago
This. Some just can't wait and give pressure. (they don't care)
Load More Replies... Kelly Scott 1 year ago
Is that romantic interest your definition or hers? Because according to some guys here, going out on one date is "showing romantic interest".
Lola July 1 year ago
Some men on a few sites seem to think 3 dates shows romantic interest. NO.
ElfVibratorGlitter 1 year ago
And you know what you are going to get for sure on the third date... Meeting you three times for awkward coffee doesn't get you an invite into my pants. I mean it might, but don't count on it
Load More Replies... Averysleepypanda 1 year ago
So, they should just sleep with you or be in a relationship because you want that? People are allowed to change their mind
Ken Beattie 1 year ago
Did he say sleep with them? Heck, taking it to the next level could just be hand holding, kissing, spending time together other than in a neutral public space. Besides, you missed the part at the end about them immediately dating someone else. That suggests they were *never* actually into the OP, he was just a companion of convenience.
Load More Replies...
Fire born 29 1 year ago
This happened to me but the guy they turned around and dated was my bsf
Philly Bob Squires 1 year ago (edited)
Friend zone... a man to be there when SHE needs you but ghost when you need her. Not good!
Glasofruix 1 year ago
The app is as equally if not more awful whe you're a dude. While for women is basically a d*ck buffet given how thirsty the majority of men are and all they have to do is pick and chose. For men it's a marathon where they have to compete with 50+ other guys and if you happen to be average looking you don't stand a chance.
Load More Replies...
Zedrapazia 1 year ago
Could be, but must not. Some people just can't bear the thought of being tied down in any kind of way, even if it's just having to consider another person's feelings and adjust plans according to that.
Load More Replies..."Recognizing when someone needs something (mindreading) from us that we can’t give helps us to decide when to move on from a dating experience or relationship," Rachel added. "Sometimes having an open discussion about their relationship template and expectations can be enough to help them see they need to change, but this needs to be done without criticism, blame or defensiveness."
"Ultimately, good relationship skills such as being able to discussing difficult emotional issues without it escalating are absolutely vital to navigating those early stages of dating, which is why I do a lot of work on those skills with people so they are ready when the right person comes along!" the expert shared.
If you'd like to gain insight into your own relationships or check out Rachel's dating workbook, be sure to visit her website!
#22
I tend to feel like I’m in a psych ward. You know how talking too much = anxiety, taking not enough = depression? Everything you do is the wrong thing to do.
If I chase when it’s not wanted, I’m seen as obsessed. If I don’t chase when it’s wanted, I’m seen as uninterested. But I am completely unable to tell who wants to be chased and doesn’t want to and asking for clarification is kinda taboo. So it’s kind of a guessing game but if I f**k up, the gossip could spread to future potential partners. So a lot of us lean toward “Better safe than sorry” meaning we don’t ask. But then women think we don’t like them or care about them or whatever. Idk if you can understand how this would drive someone crazy trying to navigate this. I’ve had the most success being detached and only pursuing women who express enough interest in me that it’s distinguishable from friendliness because that takes the guess work out of it.
LB 1 year ago
I feel like this is a really sensible approach: I’ve had the most success [...] only pursuing women who express enough interest in me that it’s distinguishable from friendliness because that takes the guess work out of it. I don't know why that has to be labelled as 'detached'.
Cherry Lane 1 year ago
Some don't get interested until they know the person a bit.
Load More Replies... #23
I’ll tackle the older end of things, as I am in my 50s.
That saying that women control access to sex and men control access to relationships is absolutely true as you get older. He’s looking for someone to f**k who he might eventually like a relationship with. She’s looking for a relationship with someone who she might eventually f**k.
First dates with women my age turn into financial and relationship history colonoscopies. They want to know details of your financial prospects so they know if you can either keep up or provide and they want to know what they are getting into because they are looking for the guy they hope to be buried next to someday. ON A FIRST DATE. They want to know the deepest and most painful details of why your first marriage failed that only your closest two friends in the world know…ON A FIRST DATE.
Meanwhile, most guys have been there and done that. And we just don’t understand why anyone would want to go through that hell again. We want someone we can laugh with, watch movies with, talk with, snuggle, and f**k. Why ruin that with a serious relationship? We aren’t thinking about long-term relationships yet. If it leads to that, great. But that’s off the table for now and may never be on the table.
It makes for a lot of frustrating first date fails on both sides.
Dawn Thomas-Cameron 1 year ago
How about something in between? Maybe a bit of the relationship before the f---ing. Maybe meeting in public a couple times versus inviting a stranger into your house (or vice versa).
Ken Beattie 1 year ago
And that's exactly what he was talking about. Meet up, hang out, have some fun. No need to jump immediately to the forensic examination of past relationships and personal wealth and no need to immediately jump in the sack. I wouldn't expect to immediately wind up in bed with someone on a first date, but at the same time I don't expect to be grilled about my ex's, my finances, whether I have/want kids, etc.
Load More Replies... Ephemera Image 1 year ago
Translation, guy in his fifties wants to date younger women who will f**k on the first date and aren't savvy enough to ask the questions they will ask when they get older, after having gone through a few failed relationships.
Jess 1 year ago
and he isn't ready for a long-term relationships.. YET. Dude is in his 50s :D
Load More Replies... Tara L. 1 year ago
You sound terrible. You're also probably projecting your insecurities on women. I once went on a date with this guy & during our convo he asked what I did for work, I told him then asked what he did.... he blew up! Started ranting about how women only care about how much money men make, how women just want to be lazy & taken care of, etc. I got up & left. Like dude, am I not allowed to ask you the same questions you ask me? Fk that, you sound just like that creep. I bet you only hit on women who are inappropriately younger than you then whine that no one wants to fk your worthless a*s.
Cherry Lane 1 year ago
So in other words you are just a 50 yo f*ckboy. Very mature and not avoidant at all. (most of the men in the dating apps are just looking for someone to use and f*ck).
Karl 1 year ago
I’m in my 50s (& happily married) but still get propositioned every now and again (v.flattering). Were I available, I find the candidness of this refreshing from when I was younger. I suppose this is down to all parties having been round the block several times, having a certain degree of financial independence, emotional maturity, knowing exactly what you want from a relationship and the confidence to ask for it without wasting time.
MurderMittens 1 year ago
Can men understand that sex implies an exclusive relationship unless otherwise specified?
#24
Honestly some men have it way easier on the dating front while others like me struggle. Only thing I'd say is that it's a pain to chat with a wall, so much so that I just straight up give up.
If you're not participating in the conversation or even trying to have one, then I have no reason to be on the date.
Side note, dating apps are something there to ruin my mental health, confidence and any self image I've built for myself. Weeks of no matches into straight up ghosting from first hello whenever I do get one. Or then it's a scammer.
I guess in a nutshell, good date would be win-win for both participants, not just one person doing everything and getting "a reward". Going to a bar and getting one night stand or just straight up hiring hooker is easier, if you just wanna get off.
censorshipsucks 1 year ago
It's easy to tell if she's a scammer. 1. She's attractive. 2. She uses funny english. 3. Photos show a foreign city behind her. 4. If you ask her local-specific stuff she can't answer, e.g. ask her which local restaurant she likes. 5. She asks you for cellphone data/airtime/petrol.
ElfVibratorGlitter 1 year ago
Apparently you're a scammer if you won't do a video chat RN!!! whilst you're in a meeting with your coworkers or otherwise busy. If you were real you would have answered. *Eye roll*
🦄 Unicorn Princess 1 year ago
While you do want someone to carry on a conversation with and responds to you, don't expect her to message you back immediately.
#25
Barrier to entry is quite high, but also 'the bar is on the floor'. It makes me feel like there's something wrong with me, if the minimum standards are so low, but I still can't get a date.
E M 1 year ago
50% of the answers were the same. Men don't like women who want them to chase. Got it.
Charles McChristy 1 year ago
You don't have to read the entire article. You know that, right?
Load More Replies... censorshipsucks 1 year ago
The minimum standards aren't really low, I don't think? It depends on the target demographic. My target demographic has high standards.
What do you think ?
Zedrapazia 1 year ago
A lot of these seem to be frustrated opinions of people that spent too much time on dating apps. Because these are exactly the strange, weirdly high double standard things you find there. People (no, it's obviously not only women!) that can't get out of the mindset that there could be someone "better" right around the corner so they are afraid to keep what they have. People that rather ghost than talk things out when it turns out it's not the right partner, causing both parties to have a longer grieving process. People that set standards way too high because Tinder and Bumble have so many people on that rationally the perfect match should exist - until it doesn't. Plus, the general shift of culture from women as little house keepers to independent people is still a shift in the making.
Zedrapazia 1 year ago
So occasionally neither gender knows what to do now with things changing. Which all leads to frustrations on both sides because they feel as if they were surrounded by jackasses.
Load More Replies...
kansasmagic 1 year ago
I stopped reading after 10: Are these just 25 variations on the same theme?
MrsFettesVette 1 year ago
Basically, yes. And boy am I glad I don't date anymore. All these things the men are complaining about are things I've experienced FROM the guys I've dated.
Load More Replies... Helena 1 year ago (edited)
Where exactly are all these women who want to be chased? I've never met one. It isn't rocket science. Is it an event or place where a woman can reasonably expect to be approached? Then do so. Have a conversation, ask her out, whatever, but if she says no, take the no. If she wants to play games, just make sure it isn't with you. If they randomly stop talking to you, chances are they were scared to just outright tell you for whatever reason. Just know that most of what we do is for our safety, not your comfort. We have to.
MurderMittens 1 year ago
I want my husband to chase me. Why do i ALWAYS have to be the one to initiate sex, dates, conversations...???
Load More Replies...
Guess Undheit 1 year ago
To all of them I would say: Stop looking for dates and romance. Build up a circle of platonic friends with women where you treat and act towards them the same as men. Will any of them pick you? Maybe, maybe not. But maybe you'll start seeing how other people and couples interact while you're out socially. Above all, stop coming in with expectations and goals.
sofacushionfort 1 year ago
Don’t value yourself as just a commodity, and don’t treat anyone else as just a commodity; and avoid those who do. Allow yourself to be disappointed, because it’s going to happen sometimes anyway. Accept that you can be disappointed in yourself and in the eyes of others. Every era in history has its unique challenges, and yours is its placing of resentment at a premium. Your challenge is to find happiness in resisting resentment, not in nursing it.
Kylie 1 year ago
I've seen some of the photo filtered AI profiles on tinder etc. (mainly female but I'm sure there's males who do the same) and thanks but no thanks.
Load More Replies... Cosmikid 1 year ago
I can put my finger on one major problem - which will not be easy to "fix". Both men- and women - are incredibly "Defensive!" right now about their own positions, thoughts, "rights" etc. At least that's the gist of what's on social media. And often, what is being defended is a "Half-truth" at best. People have experienced "This" - therefore it is true. Except in reality it's only true sometimes - leaving people locked out of other experiences. Incidentally, my own saying: "A half-truth; is the most durable of lies." We're adamant that "I know!" - and we don't, really, and don't know we don't know. How to fix? Ha. 20 years of therapy? Or- try to train yourself to NOT judge. Let this person; and this world; show you what they are, and don't think you understand it all from a few hints. And- good luck. You need it.
DB 1 year ago
I married my first wife at 30 and we divorced 3 years later sharing custody of our 2-year-old son. Most women I met my age had older children. When they found out I was the parent of a toddler they would turn tail and run. A woman I became friends with at the time told me she had the same experience. I eventually met and married a woman who had children the same age as my son.
Pittsburgh rare 1 year ago
When my daughter was little l was often turned down as a single mother. Now that she's in college l find a lot of older men who have children in middle school or even primary, and sorry not sorry, I'm not up for it. It works better for me when both parties are at the same stage in life.
Load More Replies... Zedrapazia 1 year ago
A lot of these seem to be frustrated opinions of people that spent too much time on dating apps. Because these are exactly the strange, weirdly high double standard things you find there. People (no, it's obviously not only women!) that can't get out of the mindset that there could be someone "better" right around the corner so they are afraid to keep what they have. People that rather ghost than talk things out when it turns out it's not the right partner, causing both parties to have a longer grieving process. People that set standards way too high because Tinder and Bumble have so many people on that rationally the perfect match should exist - until it doesn't. Plus, the general shift of culture from women as little house keepers to independent people is still a shift in the making.
Zedrapazia 1 year ago
So occasionally neither gender knows what to do now with things changing. Which all leads to frustrations on both sides because they feel as if they were surrounded by jackasses.
Load More Replies... kansasmagic 1 year ago
I stopped reading after 10: Are these just 25 variations on the same theme?
MrsFettesVette 1 year ago
Basically, yes. And boy am I glad I don't date anymore. All these things the men are complaining about are things I've experienced FROM the guys I've dated.
Load More Replies... Helena 1 year ago (edited)
Where exactly are all these women who want to be chased? I've never met one. It isn't rocket science. Is it an event or place where a woman can reasonably expect to be approached? Then do so. Have a conversation, ask her out, whatever, but if she says no, take the no. If she wants to play games, just make sure it isn't with you. If they randomly stop talking to you, chances are they were scared to just outright tell you for whatever reason. Just know that most of what we do is for our safety, not your comfort. We have to.
MurderMittens 1 year ago
I want my husband to chase me. Why do i ALWAYS have to be the one to initiate sex, dates, conversations...???
Load More Replies... Guess Undheit 1 year ago
To all of them I would say: Stop looking for dates and romance. Build up a circle of platonic friends with women where you treat and act towards them the same as men. Will any of them pick you? Maybe, maybe not. But maybe you'll start seeing how other people and couples interact while you're out socially. Above all, stop coming in with expectations and goals.
sofacushionfort 1 year ago
Don’t value yourself as just a commodity, and don’t treat anyone else as just a commodity; and avoid those who do. Allow yourself to be disappointed, because it’s going to happen sometimes anyway. Accept that you can be disappointed in yourself and in the eyes of others. Every era in history has its unique challenges, and yours is its placing of resentment at a premium. Your challenge is to find happiness in resisting resentment, not in nursing it.
Kylie 1 year ago
I've seen some of the photo filtered AI profiles on tinder etc. (mainly female but I'm sure there's males who do the same) and thanks but no thanks.
Load More Replies... Cosmikid 1 year ago
I can put my finger on one major problem - which will not be easy to "fix". Both men- and women - are incredibly "Defensive!" right now about their own positions, thoughts, "rights" etc. At least that's the gist of what's on social media. And often, what is being defended is a "Half-truth" at best. People have experienced "This" - therefore it is true. Except in reality it's only true sometimes - leaving people locked out of other experiences. Incidentally, my own saying: "A half-truth; is the most durable of lies." We're adamant that "I know!" - and we don't, really, and don't know we don't know. How to fix? Ha. 20 years of therapy? Or- try to train yourself to NOT judge. Let this person; and this world; show you what they are, and don't think you understand it all from a few hints. And- good luck. You need it.
DB 1 year ago
I married my first wife at 30 and we divorced 3 years later sharing custody of our 2-year-old son. Most women I met my age had older children. When they found out I was the parent of a toddler they would turn tail and run. A woman I became friends with at the time told me she had the same experience. I eventually met and married a woman who had children the same age as my son.
Pittsburgh rare 1 year ago
When my daughter was little l was often turned down as a single mother. Now that she's in college l find a lot of older men who have children in middle school or even primary, and sorry not sorry, I'm not up for it. It works better for me when both parties are at the same stage in life.
Load More Replies... You May Like 33 Honest Truths About What Dating Looks Like Once You Turn 40: “I’m Fine Being Single” Lady Wonders If She Was Wrong For Blowing Up BF's “Perfect” Family By Exposing His Cheating To Wife Man Gets Suspicious Over GF’s “Family Dinner” He Wasn’t Invited To, Kicks Her Out After Discovering The Truth
Monika Pašukonytė
Rūta Zumbrickaitė
Ilona Baliūnaitė
Related on Bored Panda
