35 Reasons Why Modern Dating Is Tough On Men, According To These Candid Internet Users
Dating is tough! It would be way easier for many of us if romance was like what we see in the movies. But real-life relationships rarely work like they do on the silver screen. Doubt. Anxiety. Fear. Rejection. That’s just the tip of the emotional iceberg. Especially in modern times.
Reddit users took to a viral thread on r/AskMen to share what they’ve personally experienced to be the hardest parts of dating as men. We’ve collected their most powerful and honest insights to give you a glimpse into how brutal things can get. Scroll down to see for yourselves, Pandas.
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The most apt analogy I've heard is that if quality partners are like fresh drinking water, men live in a desert and women live in a swamp. It's a struggle for both, but it's not the same struggle.
How do I show I'm interested without being a creep?
Can I read her signals accurately?
The feelings of inadequacy and hopelessness that come from being ignored by women all your life and or being treated like your're a horrible monster just because you exist. I personally think that both men and women have it hard, but for different reasons and neither side is willing to acknowledge any kind of fault in their own behavior, but would rather put all the blame on the other side. .
This is legit. The best humans are good listeners. And good listeners make the best partners.
Forbes reports that nearly a third of adults in the United States have used a dating site or app. Meanwhile, most people feel quite optimistic about their dating lives.
According to a Pew Research study from 2023, 36% of respondents felt somewhat positively about dating, 24% felt very positively, and only 4% felt very negatively.
The hardest part of dating as a man (who isn't super duper model-tier hot) is keeping the woman on board long enough that she gets to see your charm, and humor and positive points.
Personality DOES count, but it's a moot point when most women will ghost or dismiss you LONG before you get a chance to show what a charismatic, fun person you can be.
I'm thinking the person who said this is going after the wrong women? Of course I've never met him. But if he chooses who he pursues based on appearance, then it more likely that they will dismiss him based on appearance. Maybe his own criteria need to change for his experience to change?
This is true. I saw myself as a "catch" because I owned my own place, had a masters, and was making high 5 figures, and took care of myself and still couldn't date anyone.
Ironically now that I'm older and they are older the tables have turned cause I'm "stable", but I've been stable, what the f**k changed?
The constant rejection. Get rejected 1000 times and you get more than a little gunshy. The worst is when they assume it must be a joke. Because you have to be joking if you think she might be interested.
And you think women don't get rejected all the time? Most of the guys who are gross enough to catcall and act superior are just generally jerks in real life. There is a middle ground. How about meet someone in a social setting and see if you have anything in common instead of being interested in looks alone?
Even though dating apps have exploded in popularity in recent years, they are far from perfect. For one, they demand a very different way of communication compared to asking someone out in real life.
On top of that, it’s often hard to fully understand what someone’s character and behavior are like online. We tend to present idealized versions of ourselves on the internet. And dating apps are no different. What you’re seeing is a highly curated version of the person.
I can’t speak for the majority. But ever since I stepped foot out of college, dating has become sort of…transactional.
Through non-work social/networking/private events, they say I look like a “one-night” kind of guy.
Though work events, I always sense that they just wanna use me for my network.
However, the best dating experiences I’ve had were from girls I met at volunteering, exercise groups, or when I’m abroad. It’s just more wholesome to meet people without introducing yourself as “XYZ from XYZ industry.” They judge you as who you are without the added spice.
I am a woman. People just assumed I am lesbian and not interested in men. I was in a long distance relationship and didn't use social media so they decided I am faking a relationship. I am a happy go lucky person and talk to everyone with same level of excitement, I was branded 'flirt'. There is no winning.
You are supposed to know which woman is interested in you and to approach her while simultaneously being told by women never to approach them under any circumstances. If you do approach them and it's unwanted, then you're an entitled creep. The risk isn't worth the reward.
This is a fair complaint. But so much depends on how you approach someone! Right? Like don't ask a woman if she's attracted to you. And for gods sake, don't tell her you think she's cute/beautiful whatever! Just ask her if she'd like to have a cup of coffee or tea together. Low pressure invite.
Constant rejection.
I have seen female friends cry for hours over the fact that one guy said no when they asked him out, and how awful it was and how guys could never understand how they feel. Lady, guys get rejected all the time, we know how it feels.
Moreover, online dating tends to create a deep sense of FOMO (fear of missing out). Even if you match with a great person and have a genuinely fun date, there’s always a nagging thought at the back of your mind: what if you can do better?
Instead of committing to a good relationship, some people give in to the FOMO. They’re perpetually on the lookout for someone better and better. All the while, they’re moving on from truly quality people while their standards keep rising.
Nobody wants to date someone who classify themselves as good X for the same reason you don't say "I'm not racist": actions speak louder than words, and if you have to vocally affirm you're not a racist or a good guy, then maybe you're not so much those things in the first place.
To me the hardest part about dating as a guy is to make others confortable. There is an inherent display of power at play with men, and showing that you are in fact a gentle giant is hard in the beginning can be hard, especially if the relationship is new.
You have to both impress and be yourself, but if being yourself isnt impressive you wont get anything started, and if being impressive isnt being yourself, you may get things off the ground, but it will be unsustainable and fail in the future.
I feel this in my bones. If you have someone you can just chill with and feel safe and comfortable with. Hang on to that. No one is funny all the time. No one is “ON” all the time.
For men it's the **absence of opportunity on dating apps:**
* The staggering lack of matches
* The occasional match that goes unreplied
* The conversation that evaporates after saying hi
* The "maybe-date" that never materializes
It's also the **fear of social alienation or punishment in real life** as the internet has socialized young men to view approaching women as harmful or annoying (a courting faux-paus).
This puts men into a losing position as they don't approach and are left unapproached — essentially a ship sailing alone afraid to hail other ships and ignored by those who sail around them.
I've seen many of my friends usind dating apps and noticed two things: First, mens profiles very often seem made to impress other men, not women (e.g. showing off your big fish, car, muscles etc.). Second, womens profiles simply seem to get more attention the more cleavage she shows. There is a big difference between the male and female gaze, and it seems easier for women because we've been trained to be attractive for the male gaze our whole lifes whereas boys aren't even taught there is another gaze. For men who want to have more chances: try to take a look at the female gaze and ask female friends what they'd want (and its not what those "manosphere" j***s think we do).
As we’ve covered previously on Bored Panda, some of the most attractive traits that people can have include being kind and loving and having a good sense of humor.
The latter indicates that someone is smart, creative, and socially aware, which are great attributes for a potential mate to have.
What do you personally think are the biggest challenges for anyone dating in the modern world, dear Pandas? Have you ever run into any difficulties yourselves? What are your thoughts about online vs traditional dating? Share your thoughts in the comments!
How difficult dating is for an individual man depends on a many factors. When people talk about dating being harder for men than women, they’re mostly referring to men aged 18-29. This demographic of men have trouble finding partners because there are simply fewer available women in the same age range. There is already around a 5% surplus of men in the 18-29 demographic of most western countries, plus a significant number of women in this bracket are either dating men over 30 or have no desire to date. So a big part of it is the numbers game not being in young men’s favour.
Another big issue is declining social capital, both younger men and women have far smaller social circles than previous generations. This puts them in the position of having to date people outside their circles, which is part of why online dating and bars/restaurants have become the most common ways couples meet now. This is hard for women because they’re forced to date strangers, they’re taking a much bigger risk than men in regards to their safety. However, it’s bad for men because physical appearance is far more important in these methods of dating.
There is a perception that women aren’t visual creatures when it comes to attraction, but this isn’t accurate. The research seems to suggest that for women, physical attractiveness is important, but they need additional context to know if they are truly interested in a guy, I.e. personality, interests etc. The problem is, in online dating you can’t really convey this context through a profile, so women can only filter by looks. Whereas, they may have been more inclined to give a less physically attractive guy a shot if they met him through friends/family or in a setting where they get to know him first. I think this is evident by the number of average or even below average guys that had no trouble getting married in previous generations.
There is also a massive gender imbalance in both online dating and social spaces like bars/clubs. This exacerbates the problem, as some women have so many options they end up with choice paralysis. They struggle to commit because they have the perception that there’s always a better/more compatible guy out there.
Ultimately, dating has become worse for both men and women, people are now forced to date total strangers, which is deeply unnatural for humans. Though I think it’s fair to say it’s harder for men on average. You could look at it as an analogy of being in a race, would you rather be in the race but losing, or would you rather not be able to get off the starting line?
I think the shortest way to say this is that dating has become harder for men and more dangerous for women. There's no reason to make it a competition on who's got it worse
Being denied any support or compassion whatsoever and somehow being expected to be confident. THEN I might get the support and compassion I don’t need as much anymore.
The hardest part about dating as a man, is that you're never good enough.
Walking on egg shells for miles to reach a person who 9 times out of 10 isn’t “good” themselves. Mehhhh.
The perspective difference between dating for men and women can be summarized as such:
For women, the struggle is to find a **good** man to date. For men, the struggle is to find **any** woman to date.
Women are extremely quick to dismiss men in this day and age, to the point that it feels like their real goal is just to find some excuse to do so.
My personal belief is that this is due to the dynamic created by a combination of two things:
1. Young women today have been told that they can "have it all", regardless of the truth of that statement. 2. Online dating apps reinforce the idea that there is always another, better dating option. This extremely short-sighted dating landscape undermines the fact that healthy, long-term relationships aren't found, they are built.
That very last statement is an important point. But relationships still need a foundation to be built on.
It's the amount of competition. Back in college before all the online dating apps, you were just essentially competing with other dudes in that general area at that time. Now, you're competing with every male within your specific age range within a 50 mile radius or more.
Also, your profile needs to be exciting and interesting enough. When I first started online dating before I was married, you just needed a couple photos. Now 10 years later and divorced, I need a picture of me on a mountain top. A picture of me, but not too close, but not too far away. I need a picture of me with friends, but not too many friends. And I need a candid photo of doing something outside.
I luckily met my current GF after using Hinge for a couple weeks, but I absolutely hated the experience.
I think there should be a photoless dating app. Where all that space is dedicated to talking about who you are, your background, your values, your views. Then once you match up, you can get to pictures later... I don't know, just an idea.
Can sum it up in a conversation I read in a forum outside of reddit. Someone asks "Should a guy bring flowers on a first date?"
Most responses were ambient, just stating a preference but a fair few read like this:
1: "Ugh, flowers, tells me the guy is a total cheeseball and now I've got to carry flowers around all evening."
2: "If a guy doesn't bring flowers on a first date it tells me he's trash and has no class."
Both examples, guy is getting cussed as if he's a problem. Caught between being cheesy or rubbish. Not even a thought of looking within to see if they are the problem for getting bent out of shape about the presence (or lack thereof) of flowers.
Have you ever thought about what YOU want to do rather than relying on a cheeseball forum like Reddit? Sincerity counts.
Women who like bread-crumbing and only provide one line dead end responses to thoughtful conversation starters. The entitlement that comes with the “entertain and impress me,” mentality that some women have all while contributing little to nothing to the interaction. That said, the fact of the matter is dating is not the goal. You shouldn’t want or expect to have meaningful interactions with most people. The goal of dating is to find someone who accepts and love’s you for who are and gives you permission to exist just as you are. At least it is for me anyway. Whether you find yourself more often f*ck-zoned or friend-zoned this is probably a difficult proposition regardless of gender.
This is actually a massive problem with a lot of woman (maybe men too, but I can't definitively say). Mind you, I am pretty damn good at messaging, I always make sure to say something/enough to give them something to say or ask. Too often you ask someone basic questions, like "what kind of movies do you like?" And they answer the question, but that's it, no "and what kind of movies do you like?“ Like I literally gave you half your reply, all you have to do is ask me the same question I just asked you, and we'll have an actual dialog going! I've started calling out people on it (politely). Most get mad or embarrassed and stop talking, but I hope I made them better for the next person. Granted I've also met and talked to a lot of woman and had deep conversations/relationships with.
I think that dating as a woman is like having Netflix and wanting to watch a good movie among a lot of trash movies and shows, and dating as a man is like wanting to watch a good movie, but only having over-the-air television networks.
> My female friend was saying that dating as a woman is the hardest thing in the world because you can never find a good guy.
It's hard to find a gal at all... good or bad, lol. I feel romantically/sexually invisible to women. I get way more attention from gay/bi men and that's saying a lot considering how much smaller potion of the population they make up.
Not that I'm looking right now, but it's not like I'm turning anyone down either. I haven't had a woman besides my SO obviously interested in me in 14 years.
Why is he looking for a gal? Why does he care if he's romantically/sexually invisible to women if he has had a SO 14 years? "it's not like I'm turning anyone down either" comment just makes me dislike this man even more. This is why women have to weed out the "good ones".
Meeting single women. Where can you meet them without being shamed and lambasted? Yet you're a loser if you can't meet them.
If women are interested, they'll "drop hints" like blinking and breathing. If you approach and she doesn't like you, then you're "creepy and weird".
If she likes you and you don't approach, then you're "not a real man" and it's your loss. You're expected to initiate everything from the first conversation to physical intimacy but you're "creepy and weird" if you find women sexually and romantically attractive.
After a while it feels like going hat in hand asking for money trying to get a damn date for Saturday night.
I mean if a female friend approached me and asked me to set her up with a 5’11” 160 pound single guy who likes to bike, rollerblade and has a slight British accent and is studying physics, my reply would be - I can do that but can probably only get 4 guys that match this description exactly and it’s gonna take me about 20 minutes.
Whereas you ask a female friend if she has any single friends that would be interested in a guy like me, I get a quick reply of - no.
The hardest part about dating as a man is women like your friend.
Not all women are impressed by the knowledge that I know and have the same interests. Especially in the Bible belt. I am a loving and caring partner. Most good guys have certain hobbies that they deep dove into. And a good bit of women will want him to get rid of the majority of it or put it in the shed or storage. It can be hard to talk about our hobbies because a lot of women would consider it childish if we are nerds. I have told women my interests just to try to make friends and they ghost me.
And trying to convince a woman you are not her ex half the time can be exhausting. But not all women are like that.
The ex thing is universal. About hobbies: I encourage hobbies unless it's your entire personality and all you can talk about. But again the goes for both women and men. I might not be as interested as you in tropical fish, but you do you, it's great you have a passion in life.
A. Because if you met the girl online you are literally competing with probably dozens of other guys for her attention.
B. You always have to pay.
B doesn't sound that bad on the surface. But it adds up and sometimes starts to feel as though we are being taken for granted.
It feels like we are escorting this beautiful princess around, which everyone loves and adores. Everyone is fawning over her, if you make one mistake she's gone and on to the next one.
You're just some chump who happens to have the credit card tonight which is paying for everything. Even the silly little add ons she orders and doesn't eat. (*"Did you really have to order that appetizer? You didn't even eat it?"*)
C. You'll spend the whole night talking about her and her problems.
Nobody cares how you feel. Nobody wants to hear about your day or your life. You're there to keep the girl entertained. And if you can't do that, then there are ten guys waiting on her phone to take her out at any moment.
It sounds like op is lamenting bc they only want to "swipe right" on the hot girls...and a lot of them know they can get away w anything because they absolutely do have a queue of men waiting and always will. But are these problems truly there when going into a date for reasons other than hotness?-from a girl who has been best friends with many a hot girl...and many a non hot girl who feels the same way as OPs last paragraph.
I’d say back in the day be the most charming, funny or best match in the room to compete for some of us harder then others but, you can find someone.
Today’s dating swipe left or right have been tweaked to the dopamine fiend mind of a gamer. Everything has been tweaked to almost a gambling like formula, you will be judged immediatly by a few pictures and two sentences as that combined value of your worth and worst of all competing with every other single (or not) man in the city. Now them is some tough odds.
And if you like me dating way above your pay grade, you will be so f*****g aware of others and how aware they are of it, you can’t even enjoy it.
I was like a dog chasing a car, the f**k was I gonna do with it when I got it? I was ill equipped to deal.
I've always found it annoying that essentially ZERO women ask guys out. That ish is a lot more common in TV and other entertainment, but I personally have only heard of it twice in my life. They don't have to put forth any effort.
Good Lord, I have asked many guys out, as have my friends. That's how I got my spousal unit.
It's funny when you hear women saying they can't find a good guy and as a guy you're like "you mean you can actually find *anyone* at all?" Women go through their own struggles and I'm not trying to downplay that, but I don't think most of them understand what it's like when you have not options because it seems like no one wants you in the first place.
That's lonely af and destroys your self esteem. Women might complain that they can't find a good dude, but at least there are guys pursuing them. There's a degree of self worth there, where as guys can feel like they have no worth.
The thing too is that women have that inherit self worth because they're women. They don't have to make themselves more interesting or atleast not until they get older. The most given advice on this sub for dating is that we need to improve ourselves and make ourselves more desirable to women. We need to workout, build our careers, acquire hobbies and skills, get out of your comfort zone and learn how to communicate/approach. What do most women need to do? Mostly to look pretty and show up, don't be an a*****e and you're good.
There's a reason why there's a growing number of guys just walking away from the dating scene entirely. All that effort and upending your life just to be told you're a good person, you're just not sexy enough.
I think the reason a lot (not all) of older single women end up bitter and angry is because they are now experiencing what it's like to be a man in dating. Especially concerning older men still being attracted to younger women.
Again, not disparaging women, they might be able to get a lot of dates, but a relationship is another story. A lot of women struggle to actually find a guy that's not just trying to pump and dump. I'm just saying that imo I would prefer to be in the position that women are in vs what guys have to go through. I'm fairly successful when I put in the effort, but that s**t can be exhausting at times.
Hahaha seriously? For decades women have been conditioned to look after their appearance. Clothes, makeup, hairstyle, having a nice body. Women have been told for centuries to make themselves desirable for men. And they did.. And they believed that they could only be happy in a relationship, that was expected of women. Now more and more women realize they don't have to be in a relationship to have a fulfilling life. So a relationship is a bonus, and that gives the circumstances to set some expectations.
You always have to perform. The times when your confidence is low, you won’t be able to date. You can’t doubt yourself openly, or be open about any insecurities or vulnerabilities. Even though a lot of these things are organic human experiences, women don’t want a partner who displays them.
Also, if you don’t put in initiative, and “put yourself out there”, your chances are pretty low unless you’re a hotshot.
Lastly, you’re expected to be sure about somebody even in the earliest stages (or at least act that way), when a girl can be “unsure about you” and act that way.
Again, this sounds so strongly like a case of having pursued the wrong women. There are so many more women out there who are interested in human men. But maybe they aren't pretty enough, or skinny enough for him to give them a chance?
After agreeing to a date, it's up to the man to do 100% of the planning.
Even after multiple dates with the same woman, the man is generally expected to be the social planner. It's exhausting and expensive since most women still don't think they should pay for anything.
You need a different dating pool. Women who expect men to initiate all the dates and all the paying are NOT people you want to be with. Or if that's what you want, this is the result you get.
The hardest part as a young man was that following the advice and literal statements from women on what they want in a dating partner turns you into a "Nice Guy".
You have to just know that there is a mile long list of other requirements unstated by her that she may not even be consciously aware of, like you need to seriously hit the gym for those impressive gains, and always be hustling for more green.
I married my husband when he was a truck driver and I had a Ph.D. in clinical psychology. My spouse didn't have to work out at the gym and I certainly made more money than he did, and eventually he became the house spouse while I worked. There are more of us out here like this than some people can imagine. Sometimes men seem to feel that they have to have more money or better financial prospects than a woman to get one, and that's BS for the good ones.
Women have it very easy. I make over over 500k as a physician. Before I met my wife, I dated countless women who thought my income was THE standard. These are women who worked at Walgreens, waitresses, school teachers, and other below average jobs.
Like s**t 500k a year is 0.1% income. Barely 10% of men even make 100k a year. Unrealistic expectations, and then I was called shallow for only dating skinny women without children (10% of the female population ages 18-29).
Yea, I’m not finishing this article. All these men are single still for a reason and these posts give a pretty good idea what those reasons are.
Lol her saying “never find a good guy” implies she’s meeting men but they don’t meet HER standards.
Have her create a tinder account and use pictures of an average guy. Then challenge her to get 1 date. She will realize how easy she has it within a week.
im confused,,, she should attract straight men with a picture of a man? ...also, yea, women have standards, omg! why does it sound like you think women need to accept any man even if she doesn't like him?
A few genuine issues, and then a bunch of incel whining. Keep going for models between 18-25, I'm sure that'll be a super-winning strategy. Women risk rape and death by dating. Your feelings were hurt? I'm so sorry. Every single time a woman is approached by a man or on a date she is risking rape and death, and you're risking?.........
I think I love you, Helena, for telling it like it is. :-) "Rejection" versus "rape and/or dismemberment." Women have more to lose.
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I think I made it to like number seven on this list? If I believed these posts were truly the beliefs of the average guy, my opinion of men would absolutely plummet.
For me, they were fairly reasonable. If you go to forums where people discuss their personal frustrations it's wayyyyy more extreme, believe me.
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Reading through these made me feel both sad and frustrated. I am a 60 year old woman. But I wonder, are yonger women really so much different than myself and those from my generation? I just keep thinking that these men are picking the wrong "matches". They are using the wrong criteria for choosing who to try for. Yes, just like in my day, there are a certain percentage of both women and men who are superficial, and who judge others based on superficial values. Hopefully they will pair up with others who share their values. But if you don't want to be judged by your appearance then don't pick your potential dates by appearance either. Lots of us are average looking and just don't photograph well. But we are great listeners, with strong feelings of loyalty, senses of humor, intelligence, etc. It seems to me that there are tons of places to meet people besides bars and dating apps....community theater groups, continuing ed classes, local volunteer opportunities. Try it out.
I'm 43 and single, so sometimes dating or going out. I think I agreed with every comment of yours in this post. I think also a major factor is that women aren't as desperate anymore as they were 15 years ago to be in a relationship. Many a young woman is ok with being single. Now it's the men who get more desperate. And it's the non desperate ones I would be interested in. So we both can be the bonus in eachothers life, and not the "missing ingredient for happiness".
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A few genuine issues, and then a bunch of incel whining. Keep going for models between 18-25, I'm sure that'll be a super-winning strategy. Women risk rape and death by dating. Your feelings were hurt? I'm so sorry. Every single time a woman is approached by a man or on a date she is risking rape and death, and you're risking?.........
I think I love you, Helena, for telling it like it is. :-) "Rejection" versus "rape and/or dismemberment." Women have more to lose.
Load More Replies... I think I made it to like number seven on this list? If I believed these posts were truly the beliefs of the average guy, my opinion of men would absolutely plummet.
For me, they were fairly reasonable. If you go to forums where people discuss their personal frustrations it's wayyyyy more extreme, believe me.
Load More Replies... Reading through these made me feel both sad and frustrated. I am a 60 year old woman. But I wonder, are yonger women really so much different than myself and those from my generation? I just keep thinking that these men are picking the wrong "matches". They are using the wrong criteria for choosing who to try for. Yes, just like in my day, there are a certain percentage of both women and men who are superficial, and who judge others based on superficial values. Hopefully they will pair up with others who share their values. But if you don't want to be judged by your appearance then don't pick your potential dates by appearance either. Lots of us are average looking and just don't photograph well. But we are great listeners, with strong feelings of loyalty, senses of humor, intelligence, etc. It seems to me that there are tons of places to meet people besides bars and dating apps....community theater groups, continuing ed classes, local volunteer opportunities. Try it out.
I'm 43 and single, so sometimes dating or going out. I think I agreed with every comment of yours in this post. I think also a major factor is that women aren't as desperate anymore as they were 15 years ago to be in a relationship. Many a young woman is ok with being single. Now it's the men who get more desperate. And it's the non desperate ones I would be interested in. So we both can be the bonus in eachothers life, and not the "missing ingredient for happiness".
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