There are plenty of approaches to raising kids, and different people worry about different things. For example, according to a 2022 survey, 45% of parents say they tend to be overprotective and 20% claim they might be giving too much freedom. 35% think they give in too quickly and 30% believe they stick to their guns too much, while another 26% note they probably praise their children too much rather than criticize them too often (20%).
Interested in these differences (and similarities), Redditor Then-Routine4852 made a post on the platform, asking moms and dads: "What parenting trope, cliché, or stereotype do you wish would go away?" Here are some of the most upvoted answers they've received.
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To piggy back a bit off yours, the whole notion of dads "Babysitting". Um no, that is your child (ren)...they're not babysitting, they are parenting.
newcamper1234 replied:
I, sadly, know a lot of moms specifically who say they 'can't get [their] husbands to babysit' if they want to go out and watch a movie or grab dinner with friends or something. My husband and I aren't like that, and when I say that my husband has our kids, I've even heard one exclaim, 'You trust him with the kids for that long?' Um, yes, I wouldn't have had kids with him if I didn't trust him to take care of them.
Parents asking other, especially young, kids if they have a boyfriend or girlfriend yet. It's not cute and borders on creepy.
SisterOfRistar replied:
Also, when they call any friend of the opposite sex the kid's boy- or girlfriend. I had a male friend in primary school, and my parents kept mocking me so much and calling him my boyfriend. I ended up distancing myself from him because it embarrassed me so much. It was an innocent friendship, and they ruined it for me.
To analyze the topic further, we sent the same question to Vicki Broadbent, the founder of the popular family and lifestyle blog Honest Mum.
"I think some of the clichés are well-meaning; however, many can exert pressure on mothers, especially," Broadbent, who is also the author of Mumboss (UK) and The Working Mom (US and Canada), told Bored Panda.
"I've been guilty of using some myself, such as 'supermom,' for example. For me, a term like 'Mumboss' is empowering as it describes how motherhood has helped me create a business."
The whole intimidating his daughter's new BF needs to go. It’s so f*****g creepy and insecure
somebodywantstoldme replied:
The number of old men who have approached my husband while out with our three daughters (all under 6) to tell him he better have his gun ready because of how pretty they already are is gross.
The jokes/culture of "drinking alcohol because parenting is hard and the kids are driving you crazy.". The whole wine mom/gin mom trend, or calling beer "happy daddy juice". Little baby outfits that say "I'm the reason mommy drinks" or with a picture of a beer glass and a baby bottle that says "Daddy's bottle, my bottle". I have just seen so many.
It glorifies alcohol as a stress reliever/mood booster. It makes alcohol consumption seem really trivial and like it's the norm. And for kids growing up with an alcoholic parent, it creates the idea in their mind that it's all their fault. I don't find it cute, funny, or trendy.
Bit it's socially acceptable to be a functional alcoholic parent! /s 🤮 It's just as bad as putting the kid in a shirt that says "Mommy/Daddy abuses prescription painkillers just to deal with me." Disgusting how alcohol is glorified.
Vicki is a mom-of-three herself, and she thinks the prevalence of these things has a lot to do with personal interpretation. That being said, "we all need to be mindful to view motherhood in an open and inclusive way," she added.
"I've found people sometimes have preconceptions of me when they hear I'm a mother (usually non-parents), that perhaps my brain or sense of humor left the building when my kids entered."
"We learn from experience and can educate others too, or stand up for ourselves if we feel we're being misrepresented or undermined," the mom highlighted.
I wish people would let their kids have privacy and keep them off the internet. Did I really need to see your baby’s bare bum on Facebook??
Yeah. I saw a post a mom put online it was a picture of her 5 year old daughters butt and the mom was like "My kiddo just had a vaccination shot in the bum" and everyone is like brave girl but I'm thinking WTF give your kid some privacy
Keeping your children so busy in extracurricular activities & events that they are never home. It’s ok to let your kid play with the toys they have, go outside in their own backyard, hang out with the neighborhood kiddo and have unconstructed free time.
"Starting important conversations is a way to change the often limiting narrative," Broadbent said. "It's also important to be honest about what changes and our needs as parents, for example, requesting the option for flexible or remote working. As Amy Westervelt states, 'We still ask women to work like they don't have kids and parent like they don't work. It's well past time to change all that.'"
Luckily, Vicki feels there's been a cultural shift over the past for the better, which was accelerated online by mothers and fathers who have been more candid in representing how hard parenting can be, showing the good with the bad. "Hashtags like #relatablemom and #honestparenting bring up millions of searches showing the realities of parenting. By doing so, we all feel more normal and supported," she said. Hopefully, this Reddit thread contributes as well!
That little baby boys or girls are “flirting” when they’re smiling at an adult. It’s f*****g creepy and gross. Anything that sexualizes babies and little kids that way.
Got to agree 100% with "Anything that sexualizes (children of any age) NEEDS to stop. That behavior, even when "joking", needs to stop.
Forcing kids to clean their plate (eat everything). This creates an unhealthy attitude towards food. I try to portion enough to what I know my kiddo can eat but holy c**p. I've seen some parents feed their kids adult servings and tell them they aren't leaving the table until it's done.
My brother would do this to his son from a fling. He had full custody but was far from a good dad. He was a sensitive child and my brother practically ignored him and made him call his wife "Mom" when he has a mother alive, because they didn't want to "confuse" my niece. I would pick him up a lot of weekends and basically let him play on the computer, psp at the time, late night food rums etc. He's since turned 23 and I moved to Atlanta in 2012 so we lost touch. My heart bled for him. He's doing good.
Sexualizing girls because they’re “pretty”. I passed down heterochromia to my daughter and her eyes are two different colors. It’s nearly impossible to go out in public without another adult saying something about how pretty she is and how it’ll benefit her future relationships. How she’ll “grow up to be looker”, how *all the boys* will want her, or maybe I won’t have to worry about this one staying home. If they think they’re being edgy they’ll snicker and say “or maybe she’ll bat for the same team!” She’s 6.
I'm sick of dad's being stereotyped as lazy or hands off at home or with the kids. I do ALL of the grocery shopping, cooking and most of the cleaning in my house. I'm as hands on with the kids as my wife is. I prepare snacks and see them off to school most school days, I take them on outings and I handle the baby all the time. I resent the assumption that I don't do these things, and I don't think anyone on reddit would sympathize with me asking for more help from my wife, because, well, dad's don't actually deserve breaks, only moms do, because only they do things.
Respect to you for being a decent dad. A lot aren't and I guess that's where the stereotyping comes from.
Making your kids be affectionate towards people … when I grew up my parents would obligate me to ‘say hi -give a kiss or hug’ to every adult at any event and I hated it … I never push my kids to give hugs or kisses … even if it’s a close relative. They get to choose then the want to be physically affectionate and with whom. I also don’t let adults use physical affection as a bargaining tool. ‘I’ll give you a cookie if you give me a hug’ it just seems so gross to me.
We do fist bumps, or nose beeps (as in beep our own nose, not theirs) to hub's neice(3) and nephew(2), but this Thanksgiving THEY wanted to hug us, unprompted. I was overjoyed. The neice only this year started talking, and is very shy at first, but usually warms up enough to come hang out around us after an hr or so. This year she followed me everywhere. Asked a million questions. Gave so many hugs. I loved it!
That children are so delicate that they can't be exposed to anything but the most infantilized stories where everything is puppies, rainbows and rounded edges.
Yes, kids need to be protected and gently introduced to the less pleasant aspects of the world, but that introduction actually needs to happen over the long term. Pretending bad things don't exist isn't parenting.
My kid's middle school had lockdown drills, which is terrifying and traumatizing. They told the kids it was in case a deer got into the school. When there was a school shooting in our state a little later, my kid was NOT reassured to know that the thing they had been taught to do in case of woodland creatures was also supposed to keep them safe from homicidal maniacs.
The idea that girls are somehow more difficult to raise than boys. They’re not. Both girls and boys are emotional and complex.
My son was a holy terror, my oldest daughter was a princess (or so she thought) and my youngest daughter was a tomboy. All 3 were challenging in their own way.
"Boy mom" You're just being weird. Find a personality separate from your kids' genders, ok?
IllPaleontologist215 replied:
I have even been subjected to the 'You have it easy as a girl mom' comment from a 'boy mom.' Stupid. My kid is just as rambunctious and dirty as your boy, trust me.
The idea that “gentle parenting” and “permissive parenting” are the same thing. No, we don’t let our kids do whatever they want. YES, we have boundaries and consequences and accountability! No, we aren’t the parents with awful, uncontrollable kids- though our kids act like children, in ways that are developmentally appropriate, because we haven’t terrified them into perfectly still silence all the time. We just do all those things while treating them like humans, giving them an appropriate level of autonomy, caring about their opinions, and not physically hurting/shaming/(usually) yelling at them/punishing them punitively! As someone with a literal angel of a teenager who has been parented gently/consciously/authoritatively/responsively from birth, it’s EXHAUSTING listening to the dumb stereotypes and people saying it doesn’t work and/or creates s****y kids.
It’s another version of “I got smacked and I turned out fine”. Props to you for breaking the cycle of BS.
You've failed if your body doesn't "bounce back" from pregnancy immediately. Also, if it doesn't, you need surgery.
Look I'm a big dude who makes the lunches of both my boys. I even occasionally include notes. Stop complimenting my wife on the boys lunches. They had ribs in there...I also cooked them.
The "asked for it", "you knew this", or "you signed up for it" attitude towards struggling parents. There seems to be this attitude that parents should know or expect everything and that because they had kids, it's okay they suffer or struggle.
Life is too dynamic, children and young adults aren't robots - they're individuals, so to shrug and say "you signed up for it" is unhelpful and just wrong.
As a whole, I agree with this, but situationally, I don't. Sometimes it really is a matter of "you asked for it" and "you should have known". Not always and definitely not as a general attitude, ever, but in some situations, yep. Have family members who created spoiled, ill-mannered, entitled little children-despite all the warning signs being there and all the warnings given by others about what that behavior would look like as the kids got older. Guess what happened when the kids got older? Now parents are struggling something fierce (in every way possible, including financially) to deal with the consequences of their own actions. No one gives them the "we told you so" attitude or speech, but we sure as hell all feel it, and want to. Some of the issues are really bad. They decided to keep having children despite how, not well, it's going with the first 2. They still act surprise pikachu when their willful ignorance comes calling for dues, and want sympathy.
I don't like the stereotype of a boy is your son until he takes a wife and your daughter is yours for life (or however the phrase goes). Adult children of any gender can still be close to their parents.
Around our house the saying "Thick As Thieves" is most appropriate.
"Do it all mom." It may be from my state (Utah) but you must be put together, have well-dressed kids, do crafts, go all out for holidays, make everything homemade, and have perfect houses. Nope. Hard pass.
The kids won't remember how often you vacuumed. They'll remember that you stopped vacuuming to build a Lego house with them.
The whole "don't say no" thing. Just....no.
Set boundaries early. Teach them to respect boundaries. No is an acceptable answer.
On the Mr. Mom thing I hate when strangers complement dads for doing the bare minimum. Particularly Boomers. If my husband, who absolutely 100% is a fantastic dad, takes the baby out by himself he gets called a good dad by strangers. It happens every time. Meanwhile I will be with the toddler. Once he took both kids to the playground by himself and got called a good dad for giving mum a break. I was having a break because I had been with them by myself for the past 72 hours while he was on a boys trip. No one told me I’m a good mum in that time…. Actually you know what from now on I’m going to start randomly saying this to other women when they’re on their own with the kids. Particularly on the weekend.
I hate the Suffering Olympics, making hurtful comparisons or treating parents of onlies like they aren’t experienced parents and are on easy street. We need to support one another and not dismiss other parents.
I have one kid who is going on 6 and people treat me like I’m not a “real mom.” Whenever I try to talk about challenges or this or that, it’s like:
“You don’t understand because you don’t have a boy.” (My MIL said this to me when my nephew was acting up at Xmas. He was a toddler being a toddler.)
“Try twins.” -When I was almost hallucinating from lack of sleep, when she was a newborn.
Made a comment about how having a baby was a lot of work but a lot of fun. “Just wait. You think 7 months is a lot of work, wait until she’s 7 and you have to deal with their emotions.”
We have had almost no help her entire childhood thus far.
I don’t go around telling people “must be nice,” that have grandparents or family nearby. Or “oh you have help? Imagine having no support.” I am just happy for them.
I am very proud of what we’ve accomplished and do not need to win the Suffering Olympics to prove I’m a good mom.
Everything is a competition, and that is sad. My life is easier/better since I've stopped keeping score.
Shaming breastfeeding moms or breastfeeding moms not being allowed to talk about breastfeeding without hearing someone bring up "nOt EvErYoNe cAn bReAsTfEeD".
I get it. Most moms don't want to formula feed. I personally didn't want to because it's super expensive. But I should be able to talk about it without someone trying to make me feel bad about it or shaming me for giving my kid food.
100% agreement with this comment. The most important thing to remember is: if the baby is hungry, feed them. Absolutely no shame or even side eyes should be needed when feeding a baby.
Moms bragging about how they never leave their kids or go and do anything ever. Legit had a friend brag that she hasn’t spent a night away from her child who’s almost 5. Dude, that’s not a brag, that’s a serious problem and you need to separate yourself. Maybe she feels guilty because she works a TON during the week and feels a need to overcompensate? Either way, mom’s need time for themselves!
The whole notion that teenagers are just terrible. I have a 16 and 19 year old, they are great, so are their friends.
Not wanting girls because of the “teenage years” or whatever age period they pick.
Girls or boys, it doesn't matter because they're all little hormonal freaks as teenagers.
All of the gender stuff - "girls are easier," calling girls "busy" while just shrugging off boys having the same attention span because "that's just how boys are." Telling me that I'm not prepared for my soon to be born son since he is going to be so different from his sisters. Like, no, all toddlers have a short attention span and my son will be different because all children are different. Boys are little hooligans because their parents let them be, not because they are genetically predisposed to bad behavior.
Oh, how about this one, ladies.
The idea that your children are all that you should/do need in order to be happy, and that if you do not feel this way or want something more, you are a bad mother. And people will actually try to make you feel guilty for not feeling this way. I have lost count of the number of people who have straight up told me that as long as I have my daughter I should be perfectly content in life, and if I am not I am a terrible mother who has something wrong with her
At least women aren't commited to the asylum for being discontent with their domestic lives any more.
The newest one is posting videos of parents teaching their toddlers basic life tasks and thinking it’s a revolutionary thing while putting down their future partners. Like, “I’m teaching my daughter to build so that shes not impressed with your dusty son putting up a shelf,” or “Teaching my son to cook so that he’s not impressed by your daughter’s frozen lasagna!”
It started out funny but like with everything it just got ruined and more outrageous. Feels like we’re raising a generation of really ungrateful and cruel people who can’t appreciate small things other people do because it’s “expected to be done”.
The idea that all parents lose their identities once they have children and become boring, souless, shells of their former selves who never do anything fun or for themselves.
LusciousofBorg replied:
Yea this stereotype is false. My parents still have fun even after having my two brothers and I.
That, as a stepmom, I'm an evil b***h who hates her stepson. Or that I'm my husband's affair partner. Or that we're "playing house" and that I'm trying to replace my stepsons mother.
All couldn't be further from the truth. I do step up to be the maternal figure he deserves since his mom has chosen to just see him 2 days a week but jfc, society (on line and in person) paints ne out to be the wicked witch for existing and it needs to stop.
My step mom was an evil b***h, and my dad was an a*****e. Outliving them has been the best form of payback. My stepfather has been more caring and supportive than he should have had to be.
Negative stereotypes of SAHMs--that they're uneducated, lazy, spending their hardworking husband's money, don't do anything all day, etc.
I recently became a SAHM after working outside the home my entire career and I'm shocked at how often those stereotypes are openly thrust upon me. People feel no shame about it. We just had a tax appointment and we own two businesses--a general contracting firm and a small farm. My husband said that the GC is the main source of income and that "the farm is, yknow--" and the accountant cut him off, looked at me, and said "just something to keep *you* busy?"
The only child stereotypes.
RedRose_812 replied:
As a mom to an only child (and not by choice, because infertility is a b**ch, but people who are one and done by choice hear this cr*p too), I am so tired of hearing that 'you're not a real mom/parent/family until you have more than one child.' Having my parenting struggles diminished because I have 'just one,' being told that I should 'give [my] daughter a sibling,' that she must be so lonely without a sibling to play with, or that she'll be a selfish, spoiled, unsocialized weirdo without a sibling — just stop.
Oh ffs. Only child here (my parents only ever wanted one). I grew up very comfortable with my own company and able to entertain myself, and a ferocious reader - i was never lonely. As it turned out, my MH was pretty dire (unrelated to being an OC), and having siblings would have caused so much additional tension/unhapppiness/resentment in the household. I'm so grateful it's only me, and always have been.
The stupid every time someone has a girl "She has her daddy wrapped around her little finger!" Dumbassery. It's annoying and kind of creepy.
My 4 year old niece has become one of my best friends(38/male), and I'll do anything for her. I've dressed as a dinosaur for a baseball game, etc. Strangers have said similar things and it's creepy. I'm not wrapped around anything, I'm just being supportive.
Schools calling mom when then us a behavioral issues or the kid is sick/injuries. It’s 2023. Both parents usually work. My kids former school despite putting down that dad was to be called first insisted they call me. Never mind that my husband worked from home and it five minutes from school at any given moment they decide to call who works outside the home about 10 minutes away but wouldn’t be able to leave until they find coverage for my department.
I understand calling me if they can’t reach my husband, but they didn’t even try to reach him. Often times I would text him to see if they called him and he said no but would then go in and explain to call him first and next time same issue.
Im old. My school just called the house phone and if noone answered then tried work numbers for either.
Piercing kids' ears until they are old enough to consent. It’s so sad to see infants with their ear lobes pierced.
That children are just awful, horrible little monsters all the time, any kid will "ruin" everyone's time if they're in a restaurant, and that kids should just stay home. And that all parents are lifeless creatures who are ruining everything. This is usually from the rude end of the "childfree lifestyle" people. I think I've been far more disturbed, annoyed, harassed, and offended by other adults in my life, but ok, one ig video of a little kid crying quietly for a second and it's all "I hAtE kIdS. ThIs Is WhY i UsE bIrTh CoNtRoL". Nobody cares that you hate kids and have no patience and this trend of loudly proclaiming how much you hate whole groups of people based on factors they can't control is going to look pretty gross in a few years.
Yup. It really bothers me that kids seem to be exempt from the “no bullying/name calling/discrimination” world we are trying to build. No can go around saying “I hate ethnicity/ability/gender/sexual orientation”, so why can they say it about kids?
When my husband travels for work, the assumption that life goes on like normal. But when I travel for work, there's always an assumption that I will arrange for my husband to have help when I am gone.
I'm reminded of the guy whose wife was supposed to have elective surgery, and she'd be recovering in the hospital for two weeks. Before she went in, she made two weeks' worth of dinners for him and put them in the freezer, so when he got home from work all he had to do was put dinner in the microwave. Towards the end of the two weeks, the doctors told him she wasn't recovering as they'd hoped, and she'd need to stay for another week. He was furious. "I'm about to run out of dinners, if she doesn't come home soon, what am I going to do?!"
My husband and I both work from home with very flexible schedules but I have the much larger workload. We split household stuff pretty even, and then he takes on more of the childcare to balance my workload. We take time to do events and activities all together, but he does breakfast, drop off, pick up, dinner, bathtime while I work. While we both signed up as volunteers for school, my husband signed up as room parent. Apparently he was the only dad in the whole school, so he is called a Room Mom 😂 I know it annoys him a teensy bit but I find it hilarious and I know he wouldn't want a separate title, other than maybe Room Dad or Room Parent instead.
My Mom was the leader of a Girl Scout troop, Junior age, and my Dad was one of the co-leaders. It was a lot of fun, especially when the other girls and I tried to talk him into wearing an official Scout leader's uniform, the formal one with a skirt. Dad would blush, and say that he didn't have the legs for a skirt.
That once you’re a parent your social life goes out the window.
I have 3 best friends from college and I’ve now taken two absolutely wild weekend trips to NYC with them and in the planning phase of a Europe trip. My husband is amazing and goes into super dad mode to watch the kids and I am forever grateful for that opportunity. When I know my kids are safe and cared for, I can really let loose and just be *myself* in ways I wouldn’t be able to when they’re around. I don’t get that time very often (once every year or two) but it’s enough to reignite the spark of who I am now and who I once was.
I hate the idea that if I’m out, and a stranger finds out I’m a mom, their first reaction is to condescendingly ask “where are your kids?”
The general labeling of parents, and the competition/ comparing that comes with it.
SAHM vs working mom
Crunchy vs silky
Baby led vs purées
Gentle parenting vs other styles
Sleep training vs cosleeping
It’s exhausting and you are always a terrible parent in someone’s eyes.
I'm a big ol squeezy hugs and cuddles I love you so much my little squishy, but also you best act like you have some home training or we're going to step into another room and fix your attitude kind of mama. I wish somebody would say something! I'll tote you into another room too! 🤣
“Helicopter Parent.”
OMG, my grandson is dating a girl with a helicopter mother who could turn into a helicopter MIL. We discovered a tracking app the woman had put on my grandson's phone without his knowledge.
If you follow this Parenting Style, your kids will turn out perfect.
I'm such a great parent that's why my naturally calm, attentive, mellow kid is that way.
There isn't a one-size-fits-all style at all. Every child-parent relationship is going to be a bit different because every child and every parent is a different personality, and the only way to successfully parent is working out what works with each individual child. Obviously there are some hard rules, like don't let your 3 year old attempt to juggle with carving knives, but for the most part, you learn through experience that what works for one, won't work with another.
Telling parents of younger kids "just wait until they're X age."
That any kind of physical punishment aka abuse is necessary for some kids/families. Spanking is not okay. It’s abuse. Let’s start calling it as such.
My dad loved the physical and emotional trauma style of parenting.
When looking for cookbooks on baby food, so many of them were titled "New Moms' Cookbook", "Mommy & Me...", or some variation. My husband is the primary cook in our household, and it was off putting to once again see the reinforcement of gender roles around parenting. Similar vein as some others on here, how hard is it to remove the gendered language on this one?
I don’t have human children, but my bf is absolutely the cook in our family. When our older dog was sick as a puppy (distemper), boyfriend would cook him egg scrambles and hand-feed him, as that’s all puppy would eat at the time. (And it kept puppy fed and alive - he survived and is nearly 2 now!) Boyfriend made the entire Thanksgiving meal himself as well - turkey and 6 sides. I washed dishes as I excel at that :p I do not excel at cooking.
Ridiculous kids meals. why not kids portion fish and chips or steak frites. why always pasta or pizza or hamburger or chicken fingers. give the kids something nice. My kids love fish and chips and i always get a normal portion size (usually quite large) and split it between my kids.
Any parents of picky eaters? I tried to give him a huge variety of foods. I tried just giving what we were eating. He wouldn’t eat, would say he’s full, and 20 min later say he’s hungry. He simply will not eat most things. I’m talking I couldn’t get him to try cake until he was 3. I couldn’t get him to try soda until he was 5. He still won’t eat ice cream. I obviously didn’t force or push these unhealthy foods. I’m just trying to show he’s only going to eat what he wants. He had some medical issue come up around 3 years old and we needed to modify his diet. Oh boy. We’d serve him one food at a time, small portions that got larger over time, of the disliked foods he needed. The meal ended with whatever it was he wanted (nuggets, pizza, etc), he had to eat the other foods to get to the “good” one. I also spoon fed my 3 year old for months (the attention increased his compliance with eating these foods).
I hate the idea that toddlers (age 2-4) are terrible & terrorizing / threenagers / ‘f*ck you fours / etc.
I really don’t think its healthy to label your child’s completely normal developmental stage so negatively. I don’t believe this framing is actually helping parents.
Of course we need to be able to vent when overwhelmed but I don’t feel its constructive to give a label to an entire age or window of time.
And also, talking about teenagers like they’re some sort of bizarre other species and not as rational, functional human beings. There are so many people casually referring to the entire ‘teenager’ age and trying to explain their behavior as if they’re studying some kind of nocturnal amphibian.
Sort of the way some people talk about Millenials and Boomers? 😉
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All the parents here need to be more supportive to each other and stop trying to shame, judge, or one up each other or fathers. Be a community together instead. Let dads have a little praise too. Let step parents have praise. Noone is better than anyone else. Be nice to one another.
And also, talking about teenagers like they’re some sort of bizarre other species and not as rational, functional human beings. There are so many people casually referring to the entire ‘teenager’ age and trying to explain their behavior as if they’re studying some kind of nocturnal amphibian.
Sort of the way some people talk about Millenials and Boomers? 😉
Load More Replies... All the parents here need to be more supportive to each other and stop trying to shame, judge, or one up each other or fathers. Be a community together instead. Let dads have a little praise too. Let step parents have praise. Noone is better than anyone else. Be nice to one another.
