The customer service industry is not for the faint-hearted, and yet most Americans, 107.8 million people, work in private service-providing industries. 16.7 million of them work in the leisure and hospitality sectors, meaning they handle customers’ orders on a daily basis.
And if you've ever worked in a restaurant of some sort, you’d know this is not a walk in the park. Although you do meet lovely people and locals you can call by their name, and the loyal clients who always get their usual, sometimes things are not that pretty. Entitled customers, spoiled kids, and clients who don’t even know what they want are also part of the job.
So when the Twitter user @Kealy22 posted the question “Customer service workers, what is the complaint that broke you?” on her thread, people had a whole bunch of stuff to share. So get ready for stories about customers from hell.
Shouting, complaining, calling corporate, speaking to the manager, acting aggressively, wasting everyone’s time—these are some of the most dreadful real-life client incidents that will change the way we look at customer service workers for good.
Image credits: Keally22
Image credits: Keally22
Image credits: Keally22
Image credits: Keally22
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Hope she got kicked out and her membership cancelled for that.
Bored Panda reached out to Tay, who goes by the Twitter handle @taylorkiwi, who joined the viral thread to comment on her experience working in the customer service industry. Tay’s tweet read: “customer where I work at a golf course. I kindly asked a member not to move the patio chairs around as it was a Covid rule. She proceeded to lick her hands and touch ALL the chairs on the patio as a 'joke.' Her friends did not laugh. I did not laugh.”
Tay said that she always loved working in customer service, but it’s been challenging. “I mean I hate it, but I love it. As frustrating and irritating as people can be, finding out ways to work and relate to different types of people is a learning curve.”
In fact, Tay confessed that she has been “yelled at, talked down to, and personally insulted.” But “learning how to handle these moments has helped me grow,” she added.
If you have to say you're important..........you're not really that important.
Load More Replies...When I was in my 20's, I had a customer get smart with me like that. "That's why you're just a cashier." He obviously had money and wanted everyone to know it. Flashy jewelry, showing all his cash, driving an expensive car, expensive clothes, etc. But no class whatsoever. To tell you the truth, he came across as a drug dealer.
I think I'm retelling this correctly, not about a cashier but a story of someone showing off his money distatefully. My grandfather was a waiter in one of the top London restaurants during WWII and a customer called him over in order to pay his bill, left a tiny tip and then lit a cigar with a five pound note. My grandfather punched him.
Load More Replies...I hate this mentality! Cashiers are an important part of all of our lives. (As are receptionists, flight attendants, trash collectors, janitors, shelf stockers, customer service reps, etc.) How can people be so condescending?
RIght? I would love it if all of the people who work these thankless jobs just decided to go on strike for a few days just to show people how important their jobs actually are (but unfortunately the people who work these jobs are so underpaid that they usually can't afford to take even one day off).
Load More Replies...I used to work for Woolworths head office in the UK in Customer Relations. Read: Complaints Department ! Such fun ! One piece of work was yelling at me over the phone about our "stupid girl" behind the till. After 3 "stupids", I stopped her in her tracks. "our member of staff does not deserve to be spoken about in this manner. You will stop speaking of her in this way, or you will be banned from the store....forever!!! Shut her up REAL fast !!! lol xx
A customer who was trying to argue with me once tried to make me feel small, "My husband can't come down here and deal with this, he works 8 hours a DAY." I said "That's nice, madam. I stand working here for eight and a half hours a day."
Narcissistic, self centered people have no empathy, and never realize the long term effects of their insensitive comments.
Don't let her petty idiocy and selfishness get to you. I worked as a bank teller at one point and had many customers who loved to pointedly let me know that I was barely worth their time. It's like a disease.
I had a boss call me useless once. I was working two jobs, going to school, was an overachiever like you wouldn't believe, and a member of MENSA. I knew she was wrong right in the moment. But I've never forgiven her. What a way for a female leader in a tough business to treat a young woman working so hard to make it as well.
as 2020 has proven, people like cashiers especially those who work in supermarkets/grocery stores, putting themselves at risk to make sure people can buy food or whatever, are some of the most important people, in fact. They are Essential, Karen probably isn't.
i'm a barista and we get this all the time. people assume we're stupid or beneath them in some way. most of my colleagues, including myself, either have a university degree or are studying for one. a coworker wrote a womans name down 'josephine' and the woman mocked her, 'that's not how you spell it, it's spelled 'josefin' but i wouldn't expect you to know that, you're JUST a stupid barista' and coworker was like 'i'm studying for a masters in english, what do you do?' the woman promptly shut up. don't treat us like morons. we're people too. i've had someone say to me 'oh, your mother must be so proud of you' super sarcastically because i made a mistake running through his order, because he'd been mocking me constantly for the last 2 minutes. then he told me coworker her hair was a mess. we asked him to leave at that point.
Thats why you should stop telling your kids how special they are. It spoils them. My parents beat me. I'm nice to people until they're nasty to me but I'm not a spoiled self -importent bitch.
One of my favorite quotes of all time is from Eleanor Roosevelt, "No one can make you feel inferior without your permission". Whenever I encounter a snide, self-aggrandizing person like this, I remember it.
While watching students after school, a mother came up and told me she was too busy to sign her child out because she had a real job and was busy on the phone...well if you don't consider watching you kids real work...I guess we can all stop doing it.
Had plenty of that in my time doing that. Called a babysitter...
Load More Replies...I was super-freaked out during exams in med school and a cashier asked if I was okay and I snapped at her, "You can't even begin to understand!"... I feel shi**y about it to this day.
I've twice been an ass to a service person. I felt really bad and returned to give an apology and a big tip. Then there are other cases where I said things I shouldn't have and didn't have opportunities to make amends. Oh well, regrets have one good purpose: we try to do better.
Load More Replies...That cashier is so stressed out because SHE'S important. She's not just some stupid entitled *****.
She would have more stressed had that VERY IMPORTANT CASHIER not been there to ring up her order. Why do people have to be so rude? Cashiers are much needed!
everyone should have to work at least a month as a cashier somewhere, just so they know what it's like
I worked at this over priced high end grocery store. This woman was showing me a small bottle of oil that was almost 50 bucks. Told me I should buy it. I said I could not afford to shop in the store and shopped at No Frills. She looked at me and said Ewww, I would not feed their food to my dogs. I have never forgotten it and it was 20 years ago.
I’m sorry? Who are you? Important? Hmmm that’s sooo not interesting. She sounded like she was a boring bitch! Never think you are small. Never. You are amazing!
No she was stressed out because she realized how disposable she is. And she dumped her poop on you. Sidestep and keep on truckin'.
If you need to reassure yourself by bringing down others, it means deep inside you realise how worthless you are.
She's ridiculous: make it a joke you can tell at every occasion
We dont who that woman was.But because you are a cashier you are far more important right now that she will ever be.
Note to self ,odds are that woman probably invented the vaccine that cures covid or cancer or something
Load More Replies...Those words hurt and are hard to forget. I am so sorry you had to run into someone so egotistical and mean.
She's the one looking small now! Makes you wonder how she became like that.
what a bitch. she ain't s**t. Say it with me y'all SHE AIN'T S**T! SHE AIN'T S**T!
My mother-in-law, sadly. Wonderful woman until dealing with those in the service industries. It Could get really embarrassing. As a server, I learned a lot about dealing with these people from her.
Load More Replies...Tay said that when it comes to dealing with entitled, impolite, and challenging customers, she takes on a “killing with kindness” strategy. “Typically if it’s someone much older or much younger, I ensure I do everything right and everything perfect. It’s a very satisfying feeling knowing that they are having a mental struggle trying to come up with something to complain about.”
But the best moments are when “you have an awful customer sitting with a friend who really isn’t so bad. By being kind to them when they are clearly trying to belittle me, I know they feel foolish and their friend is embarrassed.” Tay said it’s the perfect way to ruin their day while making their day the best it can be.
Some people, you just wish would find a Huntsman spider in the front seat of their car.
It's nice to see managers stand up for employees instead of throwing them under the bus
When asked if she agrees with the saying that the customer is always right, Tay replied: “Hell no, the customer is usually never right. I am paid to be an expert in what I’m doing, even if it’s just an expert in the menu and serving.”
She added: “Oh really, last time you were here you were allowed to substitute chicken for shrimp? Well, I’ll have you know the protein is cooked into the sauce and you can’t change it out.” Although Tay agrees that the customer should be accommodated as best as possible, it doesn’t mean they’re right.
If you’re thinking of working in the customer service industry, Tay said you have to be able to adapt to each person you interact with. “The correct answer for one person might be insulting to another. They have different personalities, different ways of interpreting information, and different ways of socializing.”
There’s no one copy-paste way to behave with clients, so you have to be extremely versatile to be able to handle both pleasant and not-so-much situations that happen daily.In the end, Tay revealed that smiling through a painful customer is also a part of the job. “There’s nothing I can do during a shift that’ll make me put on a real smile if I’m working with an awful customer.”
On the other hand, “the thought of me complaining and having my friends and coworkers agreeing with my struggles during our after-work glass of wine makes it all worthwhile.”
Because everyone wants their red velvet cake to taste like beets.
I hate people with ill behaved children who don't bother to discipline them.
How do adult humans NOT know coffee contains caffeine? Though good move quitting rather than strangling her
Were they fried in lard? That is possible though unlikely and some shortenings contain pork
The worker likely had to know before entering the rest of the order because of the ordering system. Some people are just insane
If that is not done right and very carefully, it constitutes child abuse as kids don't get the proper nutrients.
*sighs* What is with men thinking that women don't understand machines, simply because they're women? Especially these days.
Note: this post originally had 92 images. It’s been shortened to the top 30 images based on user votes.
Some of these customers seem like they're just looking for people to abuse.
I used to work as a server at a bar and grill. I had a customer who was definitely not 21 order a beer. He tried to use the worst fake I.D. I've ever seen. His father swore up and down the I.D. was real because his we went with his son to get his license. The kid's birthdate was printed 02/31/1983 (February 31, 1983). Both my manager and I had to explain February to the group.
I see a common denominator in a lot of these. Young people being disrespected by older people. Is this common? I'm a "boomer" myself, but I treat everyone with respect. That's how my mama raised me.
The common denominator is that working people get insulted, harassed and threatened and the people doing it can be young, old and of any race, gender or social status. And in most cases their employers are siding with the crazy customers. "Customer is king" has ruined it for all people working with customers. I'm very happy to live in a country where this kind of behavior isn't common yet. Because here the workers say "Customer is king, but I am the emperor."
Load More Replies...This is what happens when you apply the 'customer is always right' principle too literally. A certain group of self-entitled people will always take it too far. Sad to see how many managers capitulate to unreasonable demands.
Can we stop with the 'karen' and 'debra' whatevers?? It's not funny, it's not clever-- there's no 'type' of person label that is more toxic or annoying than others. Almost every other anecdote just says 'woman' or 'man' not 'karen' or 'whatever male equivalent of karen is??' and they are way less cringy than labelling women as a type or a karen. It's getting really old.
I have too many stories. Latest one was a gentleman trying to negotiate price. The item(headphones) he was purchasing had been on sale(a week before this incident) but was not on sale now. His logic: the item was $20 cheaper last week, so we've got room to move on the regular price. He wanted the item even cheaper than the sale price. I explained that it did not work that way. He argued, I continually said no until he asked for a manager. Thankfully, management backed me up. The customer then proceeded to insult and berate myself, the manager and the company. I was having a good day so I let it slide.
so glad i'm retired now. before college i worked in hospitality/food industry as well as retail. the public is so hard to deal with but it served me well as i ended up working in law enforcement where a week didn't go by without someone calling me names, cussing me out, and telling me what i could do with small farm animals. while working it never really bothered me because i realized that most of the time it was just good people in bad situations being frustrated. however, now it seems people have just forgotten common courtesy. i would be fired quickly or arrested
I am a Customer Service Manager, my team has a simple rule: If a customer gets angry or threatening, they pass the call directly to me. I have more than 30 years of experience in my business, so it is a great pleasure to me explaining it to them :-)
I got through about 7 or 8 of these before I had to stop. I've worked in retail for years. My faith in humanity was already hanging by a thread. The response to COVID in the US pretty much took a blowtorch to what was left. I doubt I'll leave my apartment again at all until my unemployment runs out and I get evicted a month or 2 later. Humanity, by and large, and the US, in particular, is completely f*cked.
I work at a fast food restaurant in which the employees are unable to accept tips, and the amount of customers who attempt to force tips into our hands, especially the young women, is astounding. I once had a middle-aged man who, after I told him I was unable to accept tips, literally grab my wrist, put 5 dollars into my hand, close it, and shove my hand away, all while staring rather creepily at me. rather offensive language was used the entire time. I decided to stop arguing and go get my manager, who promptly dealt with the money. man, what a day.
My son owns a business. It's not retail, but they deal with 100s of members. And his policy is they won't deal with difficult people. They try to be fair and accommodating, but once someone starts being a jerk, they are done, not welcome back. They have very little drama and their employees are extremely loyal. It also makes for a great atmosphere because it keeps people with negative attitudes away from other paying members. One negative person can change the feel of a room.
In a eval, had a student bitch about having to do speeches in class ... it was a Public Speaking class.
Having worked with customers in various sectors myself, I always try to be the type of customer I appreciated... there are ways to deal with an order/purchase you're unhappy with without resorting to being an abrasive *sshole. I am a field service technician and let me tell you- being friendly and kind to me will result in you receiving better service (rather than the 'basic'). Customer/service provider relationships work best when both parties treat each other well.
I have been a waitress, a bartender, worked in retail sales, and now work in a 911 center. The 911 center is by far the worst. Thought it would be easier with the crazies/drunks not being in my face. Wow. Was I wrong... I don't care what race, age, social class or whatever you are in. Be nice to people. Sheesh.
It seems that most if not all of these posts are from the US. Is it genuinely such an angry place?
Because Customer's always right in the US, everywhere else they're right WHEN they're right.
Load More Replies...Used to work at a high end department store. Lady tried to return a comforter COVERED in animal hair 6 months after she bought it. I had to refuse the return. She hit me with her purse.
god, to everyone out there who is currently or has worked retail, customer service, anything where you have to deal with other people: thank you. thank you for the absolutely thankless work you do and the assholes you put up with. i'm terrible with confrontation when it's not through a computer screen, and tend to just shut down if there's yelling going on anywhere near me, even if it's not at me. fortunately while i was still able to work, i didn't encounter anyone like this. my mom and i both make a habit of being super friendly and polite to employees wherever we go, because we both know what it's like. i especially respond to "sorry this is taking so long" or apologies for problems or having to move past me with "it's okay, you're just doing your job!" or "no, i know, sometimes it's just like that". these people are people too, and they probably don't like their job any more than you like them at their job, but we all have bills to pay.
Years ago when I worked as a cook in a cafe, the waitress gave me an order for a Steak Sandwich, which is toasted with fried onions, lettuce and tomato, with fries on the side. The waitress brings it back and says the customer doesn't want it toasted. So I butter two pieces of bread, transfer the steak, onions, lettuce, and tomato to them. Waitress brings it back again and says he doesn't want butter on it. I get two plain pieces of bread and transfer the contents again. Waitress comes back, says he does want the fried onions. I remove the onions. Waitress comes back and tell me the guy says his fries are cold. Enough! I go out into the cafe and ask the waitress, "Where is this dickhead?" But I could smell him already. The stench of urine and sh*t were radiating from this filthy pig of a guy. I went up to him, smacked him over thee head, and said, "Get the fu*k out!". He refused, babbling on about "rights". So I physically dragged him out of the cafe. It felt sooo good. lol
I had a man come into my after school program asking to let his grand child use the bathroom. Back then the doors were unlocked (not my choice as an employee) and he walked in. I had to follow a rule that said no because theyre stangers unattended with access to the kids and school. (I understand little kids needing to go but I had to follow policy) I said I wasn't allowed to, and before I could explain, he was so irrate with me, yelling that it was a public building. All I wanted to say was it wasn't, but needed to remain professional and not engage. Got the Principal, who, after a minute turned around and said "I won't talk to you if you are yelling at me". Came back, said something else and they left.
These all seem to be American. What a horrible, toxic work culture they have over there. You guys NEED socialism!
G'day is Australian so at least ONE example and likely more was from there. But thanks for the bigotry. Also ask people about Soviet customer service. Socialism did not mean an improvement
Load More Replies...I work in a call center, collections. Yes it can be that bad. The worst? A man old enough to be my dad (in his 60s) continually lied about making a payment and we were about to repo his car. I nicely called him out of his lie and he went mental. Every other word was bitch and basically said everything he could to make me feel small. I had just lost my cat and wasn’t exactly in the best mood as it was so after that I had to go on leave for a few weeks. I hope we repoed his car. I didn’t keep up with his name so I didn’t check.
I worked at Red Lobster when i was 18. My 2nd day in i already hated it and when i served a older gentleman, i mistakenly dropped his salt shaker. He proceeded to grab my arm, looked me in the eyes and said "you inSALTed me" i completely lost it because i thought it was the best joke ever. He was serious. I was let go the next day
When i worked in IT in a hospital a DOCTOR came by and just throw at us a external hard drive because it was not working.
On behlaf of responsible sane medical professionals... I am sorry.
Load More Replies...I didn't even knew that you could treat people this way. Or that any one really treat other people this way. Have more Karen out there then I thought.
Some of these customers seem like they're just looking for people to abuse.
I used to work as a server at a bar and grill. I had a customer who was definitely not 21 order a beer. He tried to use the worst fake I.D. I've ever seen. His father swore up and down the I.D. was real because his we went with his son to get his license. The kid's birthdate was printed 02/31/1983 (February 31, 1983). Both my manager and I had to explain February to the group.
I see a common denominator in a lot of these. Young people being disrespected by older people. Is this common? I'm a "boomer" myself, but I treat everyone with respect. That's how my mama raised me.
The common denominator is that working people get insulted, harassed and threatened and the people doing it can be young, old and of any race, gender or social status. And in most cases their employers are siding with the crazy customers. "Customer is king" has ruined it for all people working with customers. I'm very happy to live in a country where this kind of behavior isn't common yet. Because here the workers say "Customer is king, but I am the emperor."
Load More Replies...This is what happens when you apply the 'customer is always right' principle too literally. A certain group of self-entitled people will always take it too far. Sad to see how many managers capitulate to unreasonable demands.
Can we stop with the 'karen' and 'debra' whatevers?? It's not funny, it's not clever-- there's no 'type' of person label that is more toxic or annoying than others. Almost every other anecdote just says 'woman' or 'man' not 'karen' or 'whatever male equivalent of karen is??' and they are way less cringy than labelling women as a type or a karen. It's getting really old.
I have too many stories. Latest one was a gentleman trying to negotiate price. The item(headphones) he was purchasing had been on sale(a week before this incident) but was not on sale now. His logic: the item was $20 cheaper last week, so we've got room to move on the regular price. He wanted the item even cheaper than the sale price. I explained that it did not work that way. He argued, I continually said no until he asked for a manager. Thankfully, management backed me up. The customer then proceeded to insult and berate myself, the manager and the company. I was having a good day so I let it slide.
so glad i'm retired now. before college i worked in hospitality/food industry as well as retail. the public is so hard to deal with but it served me well as i ended up working in law enforcement where a week didn't go by without someone calling me names, cussing me out, and telling me what i could do with small farm animals. while working it never really bothered me because i realized that most of the time it was just good people in bad situations being frustrated. however, now it seems people have just forgotten common courtesy. i would be fired quickly or arrested
I am a Customer Service Manager, my team has a simple rule: If a customer gets angry or threatening, they pass the call directly to me. I have more than 30 years of experience in my business, so it is a great pleasure to me explaining it to them :-)
I got through about 7 or 8 of these before I had to stop. I've worked in retail for years. My faith in humanity was already hanging by a thread. The response to COVID in the US pretty much took a blowtorch to what was left. I doubt I'll leave my apartment again at all until my unemployment runs out and I get evicted a month or 2 later. Humanity, by and large, and the US, in particular, is completely f*cked.
I work at a fast food restaurant in which the employees are unable to accept tips, and the amount of customers who attempt to force tips into our hands, especially the young women, is astounding. I once had a middle-aged man who, after I told him I was unable to accept tips, literally grab my wrist, put 5 dollars into my hand, close it, and shove my hand away, all while staring rather creepily at me. rather offensive language was used the entire time. I decided to stop arguing and go get my manager, who promptly dealt with the money. man, what a day.
My son owns a business. It's not retail, but they deal with 100s of members. And his policy is they won't deal with difficult people. They try to be fair and accommodating, but once someone starts being a jerk, they are done, not welcome back. They have very little drama and their employees are extremely loyal. It also makes for a great atmosphere because it keeps people with negative attitudes away from other paying members. One negative person can change the feel of a room.
In a eval, had a student bitch about having to do speeches in class ... it was a Public Speaking class.
Having worked with customers in various sectors myself, I always try to be the type of customer I appreciated... there are ways to deal with an order/purchase you're unhappy with without resorting to being an abrasive *sshole. I am a field service technician and let me tell you- being friendly and kind to me will result in you receiving better service (rather than the 'basic'). Customer/service provider relationships work best when both parties treat each other well.
I have been a waitress, a bartender, worked in retail sales, and now work in a 911 center. The 911 center is by far the worst. Thought it would be easier with the crazies/drunks not being in my face. Wow. Was I wrong... I don't care what race, age, social class or whatever you are in. Be nice to people. Sheesh.
It seems that most if not all of these posts are from the US. Is it genuinely such an angry place?
Because Customer's always right in the US, everywhere else they're right WHEN they're right.
Load More Replies...Used to work at a high end department store. Lady tried to return a comforter COVERED in animal hair 6 months after she bought it. I had to refuse the return. She hit me with her purse.
god, to everyone out there who is currently or has worked retail, customer service, anything where you have to deal with other people: thank you. thank you for the absolutely thankless work you do and the assholes you put up with. i'm terrible with confrontation when it's not through a computer screen, and tend to just shut down if there's yelling going on anywhere near me, even if it's not at me. fortunately while i was still able to work, i didn't encounter anyone like this. my mom and i both make a habit of being super friendly and polite to employees wherever we go, because we both know what it's like. i especially respond to "sorry this is taking so long" or apologies for problems or having to move past me with "it's okay, you're just doing your job!" or "no, i know, sometimes it's just like that". these people are people too, and they probably don't like their job any more than you like them at their job, but we all have bills to pay.
Years ago when I worked as a cook in a cafe, the waitress gave me an order for a Steak Sandwich, which is toasted with fried onions, lettuce and tomato, with fries on the side. The waitress brings it back and says the customer doesn't want it toasted. So I butter two pieces of bread, transfer the steak, onions, lettuce, and tomato to them. Waitress brings it back again and says he doesn't want butter on it. I get two plain pieces of bread and transfer the contents again. Waitress comes back, says he does want the fried onions. I remove the onions. Waitress comes back and tell me the guy says his fries are cold. Enough! I go out into the cafe and ask the waitress, "Where is this dickhead?" But I could smell him already. The stench of urine and sh*t were radiating from this filthy pig of a guy. I went up to him, smacked him over thee head, and said, "Get the fu*k out!". He refused, babbling on about "rights". So I physically dragged him out of the cafe. It felt sooo good. lol
I had a man come into my after school program asking to let his grand child use the bathroom. Back then the doors were unlocked (not my choice as an employee) and he walked in. I had to follow a rule that said no because theyre stangers unattended with access to the kids and school. (I understand little kids needing to go but I had to follow policy) I said I wasn't allowed to, and before I could explain, he was so irrate with me, yelling that it was a public building. All I wanted to say was it wasn't, but needed to remain professional and not engage. Got the Principal, who, after a minute turned around and said "I won't talk to you if you are yelling at me". Came back, said something else and they left.
These all seem to be American. What a horrible, toxic work culture they have over there. You guys NEED socialism!
G'day is Australian so at least ONE example and likely more was from there. But thanks for the bigotry. Also ask people about Soviet customer service. Socialism did not mean an improvement
Load More Replies...I work in a call center, collections. Yes it can be that bad. The worst? A man old enough to be my dad (in his 60s) continually lied about making a payment and we were about to repo his car. I nicely called him out of his lie and he went mental. Every other word was bitch and basically said everything he could to make me feel small. I had just lost my cat and wasn’t exactly in the best mood as it was so after that I had to go on leave for a few weeks. I hope we repoed his car. I didn’t keep up with his name so I didn’t check.
I worked at Red Lobster when i was 18. My 2nd day in i already hated it and when i served a older gentleman, i mistakenly dropped his salt shaker. He proceeded to grab my arm, looked me in the eyes and said "you inSALTed me" i completely lost it because i thought it was the best joke ever. He was serious. I was let go the next day
When i worked in IT in a hospital a DOCTOR came by and just throw at us a external hard drive because it was not working.
On behlaf of responsible sane medical professionals... I am sorry.
Load More Replies...I didn't even knew that you could treat people this way. Or that any one really treat other people this way. Have more Karen out there then I thought.