“He Won’t Propose To Me”: Woman Tells BF She’d Keep Her Last Name, He Says ‘No’
The symbols around marriage can be a funny thing, mostly old practicalities that many of us still use out of tradition. While rings are a pretty common and visible symbol of matrimony, taking your spouse’s surname might still be the most distinctive part of getting married.
Internet celebrity Ethan Payne recently had a heated discussion with his girlfriend Faith Kelly about taking his surname after marriage that caused some debate online. As it turns out, she did not want to use his last name, something he found incomprehensible.
More info: TikTok
E-celeb Ethan Payne and his girlfriend Faith Kelly had a disagreement about her taking his surname
Image credits: paynesclips
Faith Kelly: Ethan says he won’t propose to me because I want to be Kelly-Payne.
Ethan Payne: Faith doesn’t want to take my name. And that irks me.
– No…
– Yes.
– I want to take your name.
– You don’t want to.
Image credits: paynesclips
– I just want to take mine as well. I’m not saying, no, ’cause otherwise then I would just wouldn’t change my name. I’m saying, I want to put mine there, but Kelly-Payne. So if anyone goes, ‘Oh, what’s your name over there? Oh, Faith Payne.
– So what’s the point in this?
– ‘Cause I don’t want to lose my association with my family.
– You’re not.
Image credits: paynesclips
– Yeah? Okay, great. So let me keep it.
– No.
– It’s a personal thing. I’ve grown up with the name my whole life. I like it. I wanna keep it.
– No. Take it.
– No. You take mine.
– No, take it. Encompass it.
Image credits: paynesclips
– No, you take mine. Well, then?
– No, that’s not what this.. No, no. I am… I just believe that that’s how it should be done.
– When you make the first move, when the sun’s shinning on my finger, I think about it. Until then, no.
– I’m not having this ‘I’ll think about it’ and then bottling it 50/50. No way. I need 100% die for the badge, ride or die.
– I’ll be in there..
– No, I need…
Image credits: paynesclips
– It’ll be so not in it.
– No, I need a full kit.
– I just want to keep it because I like my association with my family.
– No.
Image credits: paynesclips
You can watch the full video here
@paynesclips FAITH DOESN’T WANT ETHANS NAME! #behzinga #growingpaynes ♬ original sound – Growing Paynes Clips
These days, people have strong opinions about the names others chose
If you watched this clip and wondered who exactly these two people are, here is a quick refresher. The man is Ethan Payne, who is part of the Sidemen, a group of, you guessed it, men who have a YouTube channel together. The woman, Faith Kelly, is his girlfriend of two years, with whom he has a daughter.
They have a podcast together, somewhat cleverly named Growing Paynes, after Ethan’s surname, the cause of all this drama. In the clip above, the two were discussing their names post-marriage, and Faith is quite adamant that she doesn’t want to exclusively take his surname, but have a double, hyphenated last name. Ethan is quite resistant to this idea, which ended up sparking considerable debate online.
The traditional method would be for the woman to take the man’s last name, although this has not actually been a “rule” for quite some time, and, indeed, was never the tradition in many places. For example, even in Ancient China, women would not take their husband’s family name, a tradition that is still in effect.
Image credits: HONG SON (not the actual photo)
There are practical reasons why one might want to keep their name
Indeed, the origin of changing one’s name after marriage isn’t even as old as some might make it out to be. It comes from a law passed by King Henry VIII of England in the 16th century, which dictated that new births be recorded under the surname of the father. This created a new norm, which even at the time wasn’t followed to the letter, as some members of the aristocracy would still keep their surname post-marriage.
The practice is still quite common in the English-speaking world, with one study finding that roughly 80% of women change their surname after marriage, while an even larger portion of men retain their surname. Besides the family connection mentioned in the video, there are a number of other reasons why someone might want to keep their surname.
Personal preference is an underrated one, but just as important. In the same way that most people don’t let their spouses dress them, it’s a bit strange and insecure to demand a partner also take on your name. But the more “practical” answer comes from necessity. If a person’s name is attached to their work, it would be somewhat foolish to suddenly change their name.
Image credits: Ivan Samkov (not the actual photo)
Demanding a name change in 2023 seems deeply old-fashioned
This applies to creatives, writers, painters, and poets, but also academics, journalists, public figures, and really anyone who has a “brand” that they are interested in maintaining. So alongside her preference to maintain a family connection, Faith Kelly, as an internet personality, has a very legitimate and rational reason to want to keep her surname.
The real issue is why the man in this relationship is so insistent on a very symbolic gesture from his future wife. There is nothing wrong with expressing a preference, but at a certain point, one has to acknowledge that one can’t just make other people do things they don’t want to do, from the color of their socks, to, yes, their literal name.
Image credits: RDNE Stock project (not the actual photo)
Commenters had mixed opinions on the norms around who takes whose surname
In the midst of this ridiculously worded conversation between two wanna-be "internet celebrities" is probably a decent point of conversation. My two cents: this woman is not your possession and owes you nothing in the way of changing her name for you. Taking a man's name after marriage is an archaic hold over from being one man's property (the father's) to becoming another man's property (the husband's). If a woman chooses to change her name, cool. If she chooses not to, also cool. This guy, however, is a douchebag for insisting upon it.
When my wife wanted to get married, she didn't want to change it because she didn't want her kids to have a different last name. I said no. She then suggested a hyphenated name. I said no. My issue was that the last name was her ex-husband's last name. If she wanted to change back to her original last name, I wouldn't have had a problem with it. But I refused to have his last name involved. It's her choice, but it's also my choice to refuse to marry under those circumstances.
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Who cares about these people. Stop making stupid people famous...
I care. Not about these people but about the subject. Ethan wants her to take his name "because that's how it's done". He doesn't want a compromise and he doesn't care about what she wants. That's not okay. People see this and apply that to their own life. Why are things like they are, is that a good thing or not, what is your own opinion about the subject. Apart from that it's very refreshing to hear a woman say no. To see that she doesn't give in because she knows what she wants and doesn't want.
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When people assume that my hubby & have the same last name, I correct them: "I let my husband keep his maiden name."
I hated my last name and couldn't wait to change it. If I actually liked my last name and the associations that went with it, my husband would have been fine with me keeping it. This is such a stupid hill for this guy to die on.
Same, hate mine. Well, I did, but changed it when I got married - because I hate it and because we have a child and it made sense for us all to have the same surname. My husband would not have minded if myself and our child had "my" name and he had his. It's this guy's attitude that irks me
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WT actual heck? I've been married for 33 years. My wife didn't want to change her last name. I said, "sure dear, that's fine." End of story. Hasn't made us any less married.
The concept of 'e-celebs' is dumb, but she needs to run from this idiot. He doesn't respect her and it doesn't appear that he ever will. Hope she finds someone who treats her with the dignity she deserves.
Faith needs to run as fast and far as she can. This is an outdated notion that establishes "ownership" of the woman. My husband took my family name because he liked it better than his own. But then he's a very secure man, unlike Ethan Asshat.
It irks me that he keeps saying she won't change her last name for him. She's literally adding his last name to hers. She likes her last name and how it makes her feel attached to her family, her name has been her identity her whole life, just let her keep it. Those people who are saying she lacks commitment by not taking his last name, well, they've been together for years and they have a daughter. Doesn't that count more than taking his last name?
I feel stupider for reading this conversation. It's normal in my country for the woman to take the last name of the husband, but keep her own last name in the middle. My mother was called Mona Smith My father was name Ole Dickinson Harris My name is Per-Ole Smith Harris (last names made up). That way both family names are reflected in the children.
I will keep my name when I get married. First, I love my last name and I love being connected to my family. Second, I’m a doctor and I have spent years dreaming of being Dr. “My last name”. I finally got it and I will not be changing that. Plus as a woman, if I were to take my husbands last name and people would assume my husband was Dr. “Husbands last name.”
I would not take a man's last name I don't think. My name is on too many degrees and too much work and has been my identity for years. He'd be totally welcome to take mine if he wanted. Or we could just have our own. When I was married we each kept our own and it was no biggie. Nobody even thought about it.
My mom and my dad both kept their last names, and I still have both (my Hebrew name shares my mom's, because my dad isn't Jewish, and my English last name is from my dad's side.)
What year is this? Do you know how many cultures DON'T do this. Do you have any idea what a pain it is to change your name on all your ID, professionally it creates issues regarding references... why bother. What if he doesn't like your first name, should you change that too?
My wife and I got married in 1986. At the time I told her that I didn't care if she wanted to keep her name or use mine. She said "Are you kidding? I am an artist and your name is much better for my career". So she took it. I even offered to take hers instead and she looked at me and said "You must be joking". She has a very boring scandinavian name. For the record, this "Ethan" dude is an idiot. Either that or they are making this non-issue an issue for fame and exposure, which still makes him an idiot .
She doesn’t want to take only his name and it’s her right. He wants to marry only a woman who’ll take his name, it’s his right. They’ll find in someone else what they want. PS: Kelly must be her father’s name. She should go until the end of her thinking and add her mother’s name too to hers. Just sticking to her father’s name is sooooo archaic and patriarcal. Her family is not ONLY her father. Thinking this way is so woman-reducer and misogynistic.
My mom took my dads last name when they got married, when I was in high school she started hyphenating with her maiden name. You know what my dad did? Nothing, because it's a really stupid thing to get upset about. I could understand to a degree, the conversation if she didn't want to change her name at all, I mean when you marry someone having the sane family name shows that you've now become a family. But she wants to take his name, she just wants to hyphenate with her own name which is an entirely reasonable thing to want to do. That's the name she grew up with, I can imagine it's weird to let that go.
Who the hell are these clowns? My wife still has her last name and thats fine. Changing your name is not a make or break point
Kept my maiden name because Candy Boles (bowls) just didn’t work for me
I kept my last name and my husband has no complaints. His parents ask about it sometimes but that's about it. My initials are MGM, I'm not changing them to MGB, no thanks.
Marriage is such an out-dated concept. Best to live in a country where being married or not makes no difference.
My wife didn't change her last name when we married. Didn't bother me at all. However, our kids have my last name. No hyphen (I can't stand hyphens). So, unfortunately she doesn't share a last name with her children. C'est la vie.
In the midst of this ridiculously worded conversation between two wanna-be "internet celebrities" is probably a decent point of conversation. My two cents: this woman is not your possession and owes you nothing in the way of changing her name for you. Taking a man's name after marriage is an archaic hold over from being one man's property (the father's) to becoming another man's property (the husband's). If a woman chooses to change her name, cool. If she chooses not to, also cool. This guy, however, is a douchebag for insisting upon it.
When my wife wanted to get married, she didn't want to change it because she didn't want her kids to have a different last name. I said no. She then suggested a hyphenated name. I said no. My issue was that the last name was her ex-husband's last name. If she wanted to change back to her original last name, I wouldn't have had a problem with it. But I refused to have his last name involved. It's her choice, but it's also my choice to refuse to marry under those circumstances.
Load More Replies... Who cares about these people. Stop making stupid people famous...
I care. Not about these people but about the subject. Ethan wants her to take his name "because that's how it's done". He doesn't want a compromise and he doesn't care about what she wants. That's not okay. People see this and apply that to their own life. Why are things like they are, is that a good thing or not, what is your own opinion about the subject. Apart from that it's very refreshing to hear a woman say no. To see that she doesn't give in because she knows what she wants and doesn't want.
Load More Replies... When people assume that my hubby & have the same last name, I correct them: "I let my husband keep his maiden name."
I hated my last name and couldn't wait to change it. If I actually liked my last name and the associations that went with it, my husband would have been fine with me keeping it. This is such a stupid hill for this guy to die on.
Same, hate mine. Well, I did, but changed it when I got married - because I hate it and because we have a child and it made sense for us all to have the same surname. My husband would not have minded if myself and our child had "my" name and he had his. It's this guy's attitude that irks me
Load More Replies... WT actual heck? I've been married for 33 years. My wife didn't want to change her last name. I said, "sure dear, that's fine." End of story. Hasn't made us any less married.
The concept of 'e-celebs' is dumb, but she needs to run from this idiot. He doesn't respect her and it doesn't appear that he ever will. Hope she finds someone who treats her with the dignity she deserves.
Faith needs to run as fast and far as she can. This is an outdated notion that establishes "ownership" of the woman. My husband took my family name because he liked it better than his own. But then he's a very secure man, unlike Ethan Asshat.
It irks me that he keeps saying she won't change her last name for him. She's literally adding his last name to hers. She likes her last name and how it makes her feel attached to her family, her name has been her identity her whole life, just let her keep it. Those people who are saying she lacks commitment by not taking his last name, well, they've been together for years and they have a daughter. Doesn't that count more than taking his last name?
I feel stupider for reading this conversation. It's normal in my country for the woman to take the last name of the husband, but keep her own last name in the middle. My mother was called Mona Smith My father was name Ole Dickinson Harris My name is Per-Ole Smith Harris (last names made up). That way both family names are reflected in the children.
I will keep my name when I get married. First, I love my last name and I love being connected to my family. Second, I’m a doctor and I have spent years dreaming of being Dr. “My last name”. I finally got it and I will not be changing that. Plus as a woman, if I were to take my husbands last name and people would assume my husband was Dr. “Husbands last name.”
I would not take a man's last name I don't think. My name is on too many degrees and too much work and has been my identity for years. He'd be totally welcome to take mine if he wanted. Or we could just have our own. When I was married we each kept our own and it was no biggie. Nobody even thought about it.
My mom and my dad both kept their last names, and I still have both (my Hebrew name shares my mom's, because my dad isn't Jewish, and my English last name is from my dad's side.)
What year is this? Do you know how many cultures DON'T do this. Do you have any idea what a pain it is to change your name on all your ID, professionally it creates issues regarding references... why bother. What if he doesn't like your first name, should you change that too?
My wife and I got married in 1986. At the time I told her that I didn't care if she wanted to keep her name or use mine. She said "Are you kidding? I am an artist and your name is much better for my career". So she took it. I even offered to take hers instead and she looked at me and said "You must be joking". She has a very boring scandinavian name. For the record, this "Ethan" dude is an idiot. Either that or they are making this non-issue an issue for fame and exposure, which still makes him an idiot .
She doesn’t want to take only his name and it’s her right. He wants to marry only a woman who’ll take his name, it’s his right. They’ll find in someone else what they want. PS: Kelly must be her father’s name. She should go until the end of her thinking and add her mother’s name too to hers. Just sticking to her father’s name is sooooo archaic and patriarcal. Her family is not ONLY her father. Thinking this way is so woman-reducer and misogynistic.
My mom took my dads last name when they got married, when I was in high school she started hyphenating with her maiden name. You know what my dad did? Nothing, because it's a really stupid thing to get upset about. I could understand to a degree, the conversation if she didn't want to change her name at all, I mean when you marry someone having the sane family name shows that you've now become a family. But she wants to take his name, she just wants to hyphenate with her own name which is an entirely reasonable thing to want to do. That's the name she grew up with, I can imagine it's weird to let that go.
Who the hell are these clowns? My wife still has her last name and thats fine. Changing your name is not a make or break point
Kept my maiden name because Candy Boles (bowls) just didn’t work for me
I kept my last name and my husband has no complaints. His parents ask about it sometimes but that's about it. My initials are MGM, I'm not changing them to MGB, no thanks.
Marriage is such an out-dated concept. Best to live in a country where being married or not makes no difference.
My wife didn't change her last name when we married. Didn't bother me at all. However, our kids have my last name. No hyphen (I can't stand hyphens). So, unfortunately she doesn't share a last name with her children. C'est la vie.
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