Misogyny is all around us. But as writer Nina Renata Aron pointed out in The New York Times, the word, which conventionally means hatred of women and was once a radical accusation has become like a synonym to the gentler "sexism" and "chauvinism" in popular use, and with the term's popularity comes a better understanding of what it encompasses.
And one Reddit user found a way to illustrate it. On Friday, u/horridhollowhead made a post on the subreddit r/AskWomen saying, "What is some internalized misogyny you have to continuously remind yourself to unlearn?" And many ladies came through with their experiences and realizations. From the language they use to the way they look at themselves, here are some of the things that stood out in the comments.
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Sayin « son of a b**ch » to insult a guy. Like seriously if i want to hurt him why I’m insulting his mother
If i say « bastard » well it means that his mom cheated on his father
Crazy how so much slurs are related to women
Have to stop sayin that
Assuming prestigious positions (judge, CEO, etc) are men before I know their gender. Caught myself doing it when my attorney referred to the judge who would be at our hearing as "her" and I was surprised.
It's scary how subtle it can be, and how it can pop up without you even realizing those things were internalized.
My knowledge isn’t less valuable or accurate than a man’s knowledge.
That sex is not something women give to men, but something BOTH parties (should) enjoy.
In my opinion, a good sex life is essential for a strong relationship. And, in order for both parties to enjoy it, they need to communicate with each other. Saying that, I understand that this would probably not apply to asexuals.
That my worth and existence as a woman isn't entirely decided by my appearance. That I don't need to achieve a standard of prettiness before I'm worthy of respect, love and self-confidence
That my value as a human being won't suddenly disappear the second I turn 30. Even though on average women spend 65 years of our lives as an adult, we're only considered "young enough" for 12 of them. For the remaining 53 years, or 82% of our adult lives, we're made to feel like old hags by society. It sucks
I don't have to dye my greying hair if I don't want to. On the flip side, I can have it rainbow coloured if I feel like it.
It's OK to be outside with unshaven legs. It's hair. It's just hair
yes......hair is not unhygienic....unless a doc tells me so.....n this is not sarcasm ///
That I don't have to have a husband or kids to live a fulfilling existence. (Totally cool that some women do though!)
I was downtown one day and saw this woman in leggings, boots, and a jacket. She had a pony tail and Starbucks. I thought "Ha, look at this basic bi-" and had to stop myself. I then thought "No, she looks comfy and caffeinated, and that pony tail looks great!"
I often catch myself judging stereotypes for no damn reason.
That other women aren't my competition.
Women are always in competition with each other. Men are always in competition with each other. We all compete all the time. Whether it is in work, in relationships, or within family. It can be as destructive as it is beneficial, but we still do it.
This "always in competition with each other " thing is a mindset, learned behavior. It is not a necessity, biological or otherwise. In fact there are both individuals and cultures in which this is simply not the case. This entry reminds me of a cartoon I saw once. In the first panel, there were two donkeys tied together, and there were two piles of hay just far enough apart that if one donkey could reach one pile to eat it meant that the other donkey couldn't reach the other pile. So the two of them were involved in a continuous tug of war, each one straining to eat from the pile of hay near him. Always being pulled and jerked away by the other one who was also straining and pulling on the rope so that he could get a bite to eat. . . . The second panel showed the same two donkeys, still tied together by the rope. And the same two piles of hay spaced far apart. However in this picture, both donkeys were eating from the same pile of hay. No struggle, no straining. No competition.
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It's not "competition" that's wrong. Competition can be fun (if I may say so after a lifetime of semi-pro tennis, motor racing and team sports). What's wrong is the value we assign to winning and losing. When I lost that tennis final as a teenager, I didn't think my worth was any less than the guy who won. He happened to be better on that day. I can live with that as I can live with knowing that whatever I do, no matter how well I do it, someone, somewhere will be better at it than me. A little bit of losing does a lot of good, it gives perspective. The really important things are usually NOT a zero sum game. When I laid eyes on my infant daughter, she was the most beautiful thing. Was there a more beautiful baby? Not to me, but I expect those babies were beautiful to their own parents. Those are the moments we should treasure. Win, lose, who cares? We do our best, keep the memories and move along.
We don't ever need to be in competition with each other! We can decide not to compete, for the simple reason that we just don't want to! Even if competition has been a part of our culture for the longest of times doesn't automatically mean you have to keep it up eternally! Just let go, and relax. Cooperate instead! Share burdens and joys, instead of competing.
Unless you're quite literally in a competition with them. eg games som of the time and races etc
For me is impossible to compete with other people so I try to just compete with myself
Well, in terms of evolutionary biology, they are. But the "competition" isn't as fierce and pronounced as it was in the distant past, some drives and mechanisms are just sublimated or channeled elsewhere. (Yes, I understand, that nowadays reproduction is not as important, and there are other aspects where women compete, though I'd still say it has some basis in evolutionary biology.)
Biologically they are not. Humans have alwyas been a social species and our social skills and hability to trade and communicate with other groups is one of the reasons why we were so successful
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they are actually. from an evolutionary standpoint basically every other person is your direct competition
You could also argue that as a society/community based species we're actually meant to work together. Humanity is not built to be a solitary species.
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If your job is to undermine women it's understandable why they can't do it better than you
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The not like the other girls trope. I'm just like other women, and I like most of them.
If you think you're not like other girls, that's because you haven't met enough of them yet. Expand your horizon. Meet more people. Be honest. Be vulnerable. You have more in common with other girls than you think, and there's nothing wrong with that.
The hatred of hairy armpits in pictures. Idk if I’ll ever unlearn this one. I just hate how it looks (particularly on me).
That women who do make up, nails, or pay attention to the way they look are not shallow or self-conceited. “Girly” should not be an insult.
That i dont owe prettiness to anyone
here’s a qoute by Erin Mckean about it:
“You don’t owe prettiness to anyone. Not to your boyfriend/spouse/partner, not to your co-workers, especially not to random men on the street. You don’t owe it to your mother, you don’t owe it to your children, you don’t owe it to civilization in general. Prettiness is not a rent you pay for occupying a space marked ‘female’.”
Thank you. It is years since I read this quote and I'd forgotten who said it.
Formerly raised Christian woman here: sl** shaming. I'm much better about it now but basically do not judge women's character who are promiscuous.
Also women who are hyper feminine. As long as they don't tell me I need to be the same I can respect their lifestyle as long as it's for them not to solely please men when they don't even like wearing all that stuff.
That my first sexual experience was my choice and that virginity is a concept. That nothing was taken from me. I chose to do it and we did an action together. Period.
That it's not my job to monitor everyone's emotional status, and take care of their feelings and mental health.
It's okay to piss someone off by speaking up.
No matter your gender, try to be diplomatic, if you can. But sure, you shouldn't hide your opinion, even if it pisses somebody.
I can wear whatever length skirt or pants I want. I’m not a wh**e for wearing ones that end anywhere above my knee.
"Girls suck."
As a 90s kid, this was the theme and in order to not suck, you had to be "not like other girls."
And as soon as you realize they don't suck, you're pitted against each other and aren't able to enjoy how awesome they are.
Turns out, girls are the s**t and their virtues don't detract from yours!
Sometimes when I'm out and about I still feel this vibe coming at me from other women and I understand that where they're coming from has nothing to do with me. Now, I just give them a nice, big smile. 9 times out of 10 they break into the sweetest smile you can imagine and I love that moment. We friends, y'all.
Ah yes, the 90's. When we still thought women should either serve as an aesthetic or the target of insulting jokes.
That I don't have to listen to men. I can't count how many times random men I barely knew started telling me deeply personal crap like it's my job to listen/care about their problems.
Ha YES!! Like a man telling me that "xyz" isn't attractive... ah so what?? Like makeup, or some item of clothing. Eewww what makes them think I want to be attractive to them?
That saying no and having an opinion doesn't make me mean/unattractive
Calling ppl pussies as a sign of weakness. Pussies are actually very resilient and strong.
Betty White famously said: Why do people say "grow some balls"? Balls are weak and sensitive. If you wanna be tough, grow a vagina. Those things can take a pounding.
Referring to women in their 20’s and 30’s (including myself) as “girls”
I don’t owe my partner sex. For my whole life I’ve operated off this notion that my role as girlfriend is to give my boyfriend sex and if I say no too many times it’s legitimate cause for him to want out of the relationship.
I dunno, it seems like a perfectly legitimate cause for someone to want out of a relationship. If I'm only okay with having sex once a month but my partner wants sex every 3 days then our sex drives are not compatible. There's no shame in ending a relationship for that reason.
That when the house is dirty/messy it is not because I am a failure. Chores are not divided by gender and self worth doesn’t come from the outward appearance of perfection.
This one is heavily ingrained in women and I've tried with all my partners to ask them to not do it. As soon as guests are coming over, whooooosh the house gets a whirlwind clean. I mean really? They're my friends. They're much bigger slobs. They really won't see, know, or care.
Being "girly" is not wrong. The disrespect shown towards "typical" female interests, i.e. pumpkin spice, yoga, makeup, etc. is because it is considered female. Even though women are more than half the population, their interests are considered "silly".
That I don't need to be "sweet" all the time. I was always so scared of being perceived as rough or mean. I felt that I needed to be nice all the time like a Disney princess, and never be bothered by anything ever. And never cuss cause ladies don't do that.
I don't go out of my way to be mean. It's good to be good. But that doesn't mean I pretend to be okay when I'm bothered or watch how I'm perceived all the time to be attractive to men.
ThAt I need to have a steady boyfriend or husband for my Survival and fulfillment. I. Do. NOT.
Saying sorry for everything when you haven't actually done anything wrong. At least in the states this is a very common for women to basically apologize for existing or making someone else's life slightly inconvenient with their incredibly reasonable actions. "I'm sorry to bother you" when reaching out, someone holds the door "sorry, thank you", speaking up about something "sorry, but". We don't need to apologize for any of these things. Men rarely if ever do this.
One time I apologized because my sister pointed out that I looked really shaky, and then she gave me a weird look and I realized it was stupid to apologize and wondered why I did in the first place
Okay so pink and purple are neat colours, but mainly that there’s no need to feel guilty about not wanting kids. I know the person I am and I know I wouldn’t be a kind mother. Sometimes it’s good to know your limits
My dad thinks I'm lying about not wanting/liking kids because I like to babysit my baby cousin. I mean, dude, I like watching her because I don't have to do it everyday, I'd be an awful parent if I had to do it everyday
That women can be experts on things - often I’ll be watching the news and catch myself believing a woman specialist less than if she were a man. It’s the one misogynistic thing that’s really stuck in my brain and I catch myself out and correct myself every time but still it persists - so weird and annoying and against all of my values!
You have no idea how often this one bites people in the a$$, medically speaking.
I might be a girl and I might be the oldest but it is not my job to manage my parents' feelings and expectations. It took nearly 50 years to learn that lesson but at least I did it - and hopefully I managed to pass it on to my kid, so that she won't waste nearly the time on it I did.
Rest isn’t just for men. My husband doesn’t do the dishes when he visits his parents and I feel bad for not always doing the dishes when I visit my parents.
One hundred percent THIS. I'd like to rest too, I hate being expected to help with cooking and dishes while the guys (brothers and husbands) don't!
I don't see the men in my life putting the time energy or give-a-damn into: getting rid of body hair, or keeping their skin perfect, or being the perfect body 110% of the time. I'm allowed to just be me and be comfortable in that.... But sometimes it digs into my subconscious that I SHOULD want these things. Trying my best.
It's okay if she isn't wearing something of conventional/"weird" clothing but something which she loves.
Again we're back on the clothing thing, but I must say it's definitely swung in favour of women at the moment. Try be a woman and wear a suit. You might get some sexist remarks that you are trying to be macho or dominating. Try be a man and wear a dress/skirt. If you don't get beaten up you will certainly be insulted. I get insulted for merely wearining non-blue clothing. Literally. Maybe this is a side-effect of living in Africa. We had a case where one guy publicly announced that he'd beat a woman who was wearing pants... but he was a rural guy. In cities, women wear pants all the time. I've only ever seen a man in a skirt at a scottish parade.
I can not like another woman for whatever dumb reason I care to name, but if I go after her looks instead of the real issue between us I am the one in the wrong.
When someone talks about a doctor, i shouldn't immediately picture a man
I don't have to wait around for my husband or need my husband's permission to do things that I enjoy
That my worth is NOT directly related to my appearance.
When I get angry at a man I’ll be precise, “he’s lazy/rude/annoying” etc.
But when I’m mad at a woman I have to stop myself from using the slurs that were always used against me.. she’s not a bitch, she’s being lazy/rude/annoying. My disappointment with another women shouldn’t result in dehumanizing her with gendered slurs. I don’t use the word bitch/hoe etc out loud anymore. I’m working on getting them out of my mind too
I feel like we should start making swear words more gender neutral, like ya know, calling men bitches and women dickheads
That being able to cook, clean, and even take care of kids/babies does not automatically give me a leg up in the dating pool.
I do this all the time thinking that it’s of more value than other things that women have to offer. In reality I’m just trying to justify the fact that I was forcibly raised to be a proper housewife in a generation where it doesn’t really apply. These are important life skills that ALL genders should have some basic knowledge of to take care of themselves.
I try to get all my kids to learn those basics. Always tell them they shouldn't depend on anyone to do things for them.
If they are over 18 they are not a girl. Over 18 is no longer a child stop addressing people as such.
That I don’t need a man to feel like a woman.
No you need self respect. All these libtard snowflake Karen's need to learn that. And I don't need a woman to make me feel like a man. It does help though!
I can say no to men
I look at women and sexualize them automatically —judging and assessing I’m a straight woman
Cool that your honest! First like that here! I sexualize anyone I find sexy men or women, I'm straight, its an internal complament .
That beauty isn’t synonymous with my worth. And people who treat me badly based off it are just bad people, it doesn’t have anything to do w me
I'm not special or different from other women. I am like other women, we all have significant similarities and differences and that's great.
Liking common things (certain clothes, bands, iced coffee) that are popular isn't basic or bad. They're so popular because they have great qualities.
That I have to look a certain way to be pretty
The only time I would be called strong or tough was when I didn't look too "girly" or behaved in a tom boyish manner. I grew up believing this, but I finally put an end to it.
Women who post sexy stuff on the internet are not necessarily doing it for attention or validation. I'm so judgmental of that sometimes and I really hate myself for it
Anyone who posts ANYTHING s3xy on internet is TOTALLY doing it for validation, regardless of gender. Sorry, there's ZERO reason to post private stuff online, etc., unless that is what you want. In fact, anyone who posts anything at all online, e.g. insta/facebook, is just looking for validation.
Honestly all of it. I was a nightmare as a teen. I actually argued against abortion in health class. Obviously I've learned better since, but I hate old me so much.
I knew quite a few anti-abortion teenagers. I think it must be easier to believe in black-and-white solutions before you realize how complicated the world is. It's easy to condemn abortion until you have a friend, family member, or coworker who has one and you realize her ability to make choices for her life is the same as your ability to make choices for your life. She knows her life best. Hopefully the poster will help other anti-abortionists realize that fact.
Referring to all animals as "he." Male is not the default.
In our language is default cat gender 'she'. Dog is 'he'. Cow -she. Horse - he. Fox -she. Wolf - he. Slavic languages are nightmare in learning 'gender' area of things.
I don't have to obey every man and every order he gives me. (Yeah... a rather nasty internal belief I'm unlearning with difficulty.)
That the only thing I have to offer a man is my body.
And the reverse stereotype is that men assume women only want them for money. So here we are. What are people worth? How do we measure it? Is it becasue we enjoy a person's company? Is it because they're fun to be with? Is it because they're smart? A good life partner? It depends on what you are looking for in a partner. Some men are ridiculously superficial and ONLY want someone who looks like a model. I only know one guy like this, however, and I told him it's grotesque. All the others want: a good conversationalist / intelligent, with a job (preferably), who helps run the house (not do all the housework), with looks being the least important feature. I only know ONE guy who thinks the housework is women's work. Needless to say he's not popular with his wife.
I've been bullied by boys and girls in school but I remember the girl's bullying as much more painful because I desperately wanted to be part of their groups. I'm still working on that mindset of "I get along better with guys" to justify having more male friends than female friends. Really, men just have a different agenda when talking to women and it's therefore a little easier to get along with them. I don't actually have to show up 100%, I just have to look cute.
bullying is a disgusting feature of anglo- schools and schools split by grade. It's inevitable, because the grade system inherently creates a sense of superiority in the older kids rather than a sense of leadership obligation. It affects both genders and can only be eradicated by revising the education system completely.
That most women are the same when it comes to being unfaithful. There is many women out there who are faithful.
Nice another unbiased honest comment! Men and women do good and bad.
Armpit hair on women makes me really uncomfortable. I‘m not an ass about it to anyone obviously and I know it’s unreasonable, but it still does.
Hair is okay. It's normal. Admitting your discomfort is, I guess, a step in the right direction. But really, just get over it. Others' bodies don't exist to please you.
Starbucks isn’t lame (I’ve have better coffee, but I can always enjoy a good dirty chai from starbees)
They don't pay nearly enough in taxes. That's why I look down on them.
That I don't get along better with men, they get along better with me because they have incentive to do so.
huh? What a load of tosh. I get along with people that have similar interests/sense of humour as me. Being male or female is irrelevant.
Judging my appearance
Judging isn't a bad thing. Its what comes afterwords. I was judged as a mechanic, sadly I couldn't help to much... I don't care that I was judged.
That I should wash his underwear. We have been dating a month. He showers at my place sometimes and brought a change of clothes once so now he leaves some clothes when he changes Misogyny tells me I should wash and fold his underwear. But until he puts a ring on my finger I fight myself not to and to just give him them back dirty
Also after he puts a ring on your finger you shouldn't feel obligated to wash someone else's underwear.
Yes. Toxic masculinity is internalised sexism from men to themselves and other men. So this is toxic femininity. Sexism harms everybody
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My mother said this to me when I was about ten: "You don't need a man to be a person". And that has shaped my thinking more than I realize ever since, after I read this post. Memo: Thank Mom again.
but is the goal to be a person or to be happy? my mom thought me i don't need a man to be happy.
Load More Replies... For me it's that I don't always have to be in control and be as level-headed as I can, because losing my patience or getting emotional would mean I'm 'getting hysterical'.
Someone needs to get Damon a bubba, a binky n a blankey n put him back to bed.
For me it is that its ok to like flowers. I love nature and that is fine in my head. But i also love bouquets of flowers and that makes me feel guultt and shallow. Only quite recently i started getting them for myself and now my partner buys them occasionally (like cheap ones not too expensive)
is that a misogynyst thing to like bouquets? my wife likes them and i have my own favorite flowers. i always thought it would be the other way gender wise.
Load More Replies... TBH, I got somewhat pissed off that a couple of men decided to try to monopolize this whole post. I found this to be quite obnoxious. To me the title of the article and the introductory paragraphs make it pretty clear that it is inviting *women* to discuss this issue/phenomenon. When a man is displaying misogynistic behavior can that even be called internalized? Isn't that just plain misogyny? The phenomenon being discussed here is specific to women, is it not?
The topic is internalized misogyny but the floor is everyone's to share their thoughts.
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Acceptable womanhood has been defined by men for centuries. Feminism has helped us move some way towards moving us away from this, but some of that message has been lost in man-hating rhetoric, both from the female side, and from men trying to negate the forward movement of feminism. I think a really good question to ask yourself, and be honest with yourself about, is: am I doing this because I want to/because it makes me happy, or am I doing this to please a man? Whether it's your appearance, your job performance, what you choose to say or not say, etc.
I had to undo a a lot of negative associations with my gender I developed growing up as a hyperactive girl and It's definitely been worth it trying actively to undo them.
Also, I don't have to wear heels If I don't want to. One woman once told me: "If I want to feel like a woman, I wear high heels. " Well, I feel like a woman regardless of my shoes.
Agree. And wearing heels often damages feet. Heels also slow you down if you need to run anywhere or are being stalked.
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Why "empowered" ? Can someone explain me the meaning of this word exactly ?
Here, empowered refers to women who already have some level of awareness regarding the patriarchal social programming that we all receive from birth. We are aware of it and we reject it because of the inferior, servile position it places us into in virtually every single society in the world. Instead of accepting this imposed identity, we strive to assert and define ourselves for ourselves.
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I think there is a lot of gender confusion about what femininity is - it's seems that if a young girl wants to kick about in jeans and t-shirt, short hair, play football, not bother with styling, make-up, clothes, accessories, that she must classify herself as non-binary or demi-girl. I think it's misogynistic, internal or otherwise, to say that a girl can't really be a girl unless you are into 'girlie' things.
One is that everyone assumes animals in videos or pictures are automatically male, even women! I think It's because people don't try to identify with women so sometimes it seems like they forget we exist
Hmm... guess it must be different for me. Grew up on a farm and so tend to look! Though a field of cattle I'd mostly assume would be female (very easy to spot the difference with cows!). Same for a field of sheep. The dogs we had were a mix but the cats were all tom cats so I never heard of the whole cats = female thing that elSti mentions. When I first read it (here on Bored Panda) I thought it was extremely strange. Personal experience makes such a difference.
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Yes. Toxic masculinity is internalised sexism from men to themselves and other men. So this is toxic femininity. Sexism harms everybody
Load More Replies... My mother said this to me when I was about ten: "You don't need a man to be a person". And that has shaped my thinking more than I realize ever since, after I read this post. Memo: Thank Mom again.
but is the goal to be a person or to be happy? my mom thought me i don't need a man to be happy.
Load More Replies... For me it's that I don't always have to be in control and be as level-headed as I can, because losing my patience or getting emotional would mean I'm 'getting hysterical'.
Someone needs to get Damon a bubba, a binky n a blankey n put him back to bed.
For me it is that its ok to like flowers. I love nature and that is fine in my head. But i also love bouquets of flowers and that makes me feel guultt and shallow. Only quite recently i started getting them for myself and now my partner buys them occasionally (like cheap ones not too expensive)
is that a misogynyst thing to like bouquets? my wife likes them and i have my own favorite flowers. i always thought it would be the other way gender wise.
Load More Replies... TBH, I got somewhat pissed off that a couple of men decided to try to monopolize this whole post. I found this to be quite obnoxious. To me the title of the article and the introductory paragraphs make it pretty clear that it is inviting *women* to discuss this issue/phenomenon. When a man is displaying misogynistic behavior can that even be called internalized? Isn't that just plain misogyny? The phenomenon being discussed here is specific to women, is it not?
The topic is internalized misogyny but the floor is everyone's to share their thoughts.
Load More Replies... Acceptable womanhood has been defined by men for centuries. Feminism has helped us move some way towards moving us away from this, but some of that message has been lost in man-hating rhetoric, both from the female side, and from men trying to negate the forward movement of feminism. I think a really good question to ask yourself, and be honest with yourself about, is: am I doing this because I want to/because it makes me happy, or am I doing this to please a man? Whether it's your appearance, your job performance, what you choose to say or not say, etc.
I had to undo a a lot of negative associations with my gender I developed growing up as a hyperactive girl and It's definitely been worth it trying actively to undo them.
Also, I don't have to wear heels If I don't want to. One woman once told me: "If I want to feel like a woman, I wear high heels. " Well, I feel like a woman regardless of my shoes.
Agree. And wearing heels often damages feet. Heels also slow you down if you need to run anywhere or are being stalked.
Load More Replies... Why "empowered" ? Can someone explain me the meaning of this word exactly ?
Here, empowered refers to women who already have some level of awareness regarding the patriarchal social programming that we all receive from birth. We are aware of it and we reject it because of the inferior, servile position it places us into in virtually every single society in the world. Instead of accepting this imposed identity, we strive to assert and define ourselves for ourselves.
Load More Replies... I think there is a lot of gender confusion about what femininity is - it's seems that if a young girl wants to kick about in jeans and t-shirt, short hair, play football, not bother with styling, make-up, clothes, accessories, that she must classify herself as non-binary or demi-girl. I think it's misogynistic, internal or otherwise, to say that a girl can't really be a girl unless you are into 'girlie' things.
One is that everyone assumes animals in videos or pictures are automatically male, even women! I think It's because people don't try to identify with women so sometimes it seems like they forget we exist
Hmm... guess it must be different for me. Grew up on a farm and so tend to look! Though a field of cattle I'd mostly assume would be female (very easy to spot the difference with cows!). Same for a field of sheep. The dogs we had were a mix but the cats were all tom cats so I never heard of the whole cats = female thing that elSti mentions. When I first read it (here on Bored Panda) I thought it was extremely strange. Personal experience makes such a difference.
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