Man Doesn’t Want His Brother’s Family In His Home After His 9-Year-Old Nephew Steals An Engagement Ring He Bought After A Year Of Saving
When family members are going through a rough life patch, you feel bad for them, and it’s not always your responsibility to help them, but as we are kind-hearted people, we do. The sad part is that people you are helping might take this help for granted or even expect it as your duty.
A man online shared that he too wanted to help his brother’s family to get back on their feet and let them into his home, but had to kick them out. Not necessarily because they were ungrateful, but because the man caught his nephew stealing his engagement ring he had been saving up for a long time and knowing about his kleptomaniac tendencies, didn’t want to deal with similar issues in the future as the parents didn’t seem to be keen on fixing the issue.
More info: Reddit Part 1 | Reddit Update
Man got in a fight with his brother and his family after his nephew stole a $4k ring from him and didn’t tell him where it was
Image credits: Alexa . (Not the actual photo)
The Original Poster (OP) going by missingring_ on Reddit is a 26-year-old guy living on his own, but for a while he let his brother’s family stay in his home as they were struggling financially. The brother lost his job and the family couldn’t afford rent or to pay for their bills.
But the OP wasn’t all that excited about it, mainly because of his nephew. He is 9 years old and is known for stealing things. The family even got in trouble a few times because the boy would put things in his pockets in stores and he was noticed doing the same at school as well. However, the parents weren’t too concerned about it and weren’t trying to find any solutions to it.
Bored Panda talked to Jiayong Lin, Principal Clinical Psychologist at Annabelle Kids to find out when parents should get worried about their children taking things that don’t belong to them. According to him, “Some situations that might warrant closer monitoring include: persistent behaviours despite appropriate parental intervention, behaviours occur outside of home environments e.g. in school or in shops, progressive and specific targeting of higher value items, in older children or adolescents, stealing in association with other behaviours such as substance abuse (either to fund the habit, or while under the influence of drugs) or if such behaviours escalate into aggression e.g. harm to others and/or verbal threats that come with the bravado of youth.”
Image credits: u/missingring_
The OP knew that the nephew had problems with stealing things at stores and that he got in trouble for it at school
Image credits: u/missingring_
Young children stealing is not that serious, according to the American Academy of Adolescent Psychiatry. They say that children sometimes get too excited about things and take them without thinking. When children do such things at ages from 3 to 5 years old, parents should actively explain that what they are doing is wrong as they don’t really know the difference yet, which usually helps.
If it continues, the reasons behind why older children might steal could be “to make things equal if a brother or sister seems to be favored with affection or gifts. Sometimes, a child may steal as a show of bravery to friends, or to give presents to family or friends or to be more accepted by peers. Children may also steal out of a fear of dependency; they don’t want to depend on anyone, so they take what they need,” but most probably they don’t do it because of need.
Psychologist Jiayong Lin says that “Young children touch and take things around them out of curiosity. At their stage of development, exploration – including touching and feeling and engaging with the world around them with all their senses – is part of healthy and normal cognitive development.” But they should still be taught to not take other people’s things without their permission by using appropriate language, such as labeling it ‘stealing’ or trying to explain the situation turning the tables and asking them to imagine what if the roles were reversed.
Image credits: u/missingring_
But the OP isn’t aware of the parents trying to get to the bottom of this
Image credits: u/missingring_
While the things that the boy in the story had stolen before weren’t of big value, this time he managed to get his hands on a quite expensive engagement ring. It might be that he didn’t realize that the ring was worth a lot of money.
The OP says that he had been saving money for over a year and finally, recently, he bought a $4k ring. He was planning on proposing soon and had hidden the ring in his room under one of his drawers. That is why he got quite upset when he caught his nephew sticking his nose into the room.
Image credits: u/missingring_
Image credits: ljv (not the actual photo)
Knowing the boy’s stealing history, and also because he suspected his nephew of previously taking his watch, which later miraculously reappeared again, missingring_ set up a spy camera and it proved itself to be useful. One day when the OP couldn’t find the ring in its box, he checked the camera and clearly saw his nephew taking the ring.
The OP said that the boy’s parents yelled at him and that they all were searching for the ring in every place they could think of, but couldn’t find it. So the man gave his brother an ultimatum: either he found the ring in a week or paid $4k for it, or the family had to move.
That is why when his brother lost his job and was struggling financially, he wasn’t too excited about the family moving in with him
Image credits: u/missingring_
Unfortunately, the parents couldn’t convince their son to reveal to them where he had hidden the ring and they had to move. The brother called the OP heartless for doing such a thing to his family when he knows what a difficult time they are having.
However, the OP is too mad at them to be able to live with them because the ring was a big deal to him and a representation of his love and a promise of a new chapter in his life. Even though he was mad, there was a part of him that thought maybe he was being inconsiderate.
The OP had to set up a spy camera because he was worried after seeing his nephew snooping in his room
Image credits: u/missingring_
There is no way for sure to say that the nephew has developed kleptomania, as it requires an assessment done by a professional, but you can see the tendency.
Mayo Clinic explains that kleptomania is a mental health disorder that gives people an impulse to steal items that they don’t need and they feel remorseful for giving into the urge. They say that “Often, the stolen items have no value to the person with kleptomania, and the person can afford to buy them. The stolen items are usually stashed away, never to be used. Items may also be donated, given away to family or friends, or even secretly returned to the place from which they were stolen.”
Turns out, he had a reason to worry and the camera showed the boy took his $4k engagement ring he had been saving up for for over a year
Image credits: u/missingring_
Jiayong Lin claims that kleptomania isn’t a usual diagnosis among children. Stealing things at this age might indicate “psycho-social issues that originate from family, peers or the individual. Considerations include poor role modelling, a disorganised and chaotic home environment, exposure to peer pressure, or stealing as means to obtain unmet needs that could also be interpreted as a signal for help due to emotional or other issues.”
He continues, “Kleptomania can also sometimes be confused with other differential diagnoses such as oppositional defiant disorder, conduct disorder, attention-deficit/
Image credits: u/missingring_
The OP kicked out the family because he was mad, but at the same time, after being called heartless, he felt guilty for doing it
Image credits: u/missingring_
Image credits: Gerwin Sturm (not the actual photo)
Later the man posted an update saying he’d found the ring after following some advice left in the comments under the original post
Image credits: u/missingring_
A lot of people in the comments thought that the family had probably already sold the ring as it would be easy money for them and the nephew wouldn’t get punished as he’s just a kid. A lot of them were suggesting to call the police, but there were people who also suspected a case of kleptomania and suggested places where the boy could have put the ring.
The man posted an update and it turns out, the ring was not stolen and his nephew had thrown it in the sink, where it it fell into the pipe. The OP was very relieved and shared that he immediately went to propose to his girlfriend and found out she was pregnant. He is excited about creating his own family, but the relationship with his current one didn’t get better after finding the ring.
Image credits: u/missingring_
The OP was not willing to let the family into his house again and told his brother he was lucky he didn’t involve the police because video evidence is hard to deny. The uncle also talked to his nephew and as he already knew, the boy remembered where he had put the ring but didn’t want to tell anyone as he was scared of getting in trouble for it.
Whether it is kleptomania or something else, the boy is troubled and the issue needs attention, but the OP doesn’t think it is his place to deal with it. For now he is just happy this situation turned out fine for him.
The ring was in the pipe under the sink in the guest room
Image credits: u/missingring_
One of the characteristics people with kleptomania might have is that they feel ashamed for stealing and have fear to be caught. However, they still keep on doing that so we wanted to find out why people keep stealing knowing how they will feel later. the Psychologists gave a number of reasons, “Factors for recalcitrant stealing behaviour as the child matures include: poor reinforcement of consequences by parents e.g. adopting a ‘he will grow out of it’ approach or incorrectly attributing it to signs of another disorder e.g. attention deficit disorder; adolescents with an emotional need for thrill seeking or a lack of impulse control; exposure to negative role models e.g. parents who may take office supplies for use at home or peers who continue to steal without consequence; experimentation with substance abuse or tobacco smoking and a reduced sense of vulnerability to the harms of these substances or to consequences of illicit activities. Stealing may also be seen as a means to fund risk-taking behaviours.”
The OP was relieved the boy didn’t throw away the ring, but didn’t want his brother coming back
Image credits: u/missingring_
But the story has a happier side as the man proposed to his girlfriend and she said yes, later revealing she was pregnant as well
Image credits: u/missingring_
While reading the story, what theories did you come up with before finding out the real ending? Do you think the boy is just acting out or could there be more reasons behind his behavior? Let us know your reactions in the comments.
I had a similar situation with a family member, but it went on for years. Don't do it. If you're done with the behavior don't torture yourself with being kind to them. Let them go on their way.
Quite wholesome after the initial drama. Might seem hard for some people who never experienced a thieving relative in the same household, but that’s really as described above. You can’t trust, you can’t always secure everything, and in the end you lose things, time, nerves and money. And yes things and money might be put behind family for some time. But all together this will put stress unto everything until someone breaks. So better keep distance, visit them instead of inviting a thief in your house. Ok, he is still a kid, and maybe he learns and grows up, and someday regains trust, but this doesn’t happen over night.
I have to wonder why a 9-year-old persists in stealing. As the OP wrote, I hope the parents can get help for him.
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I can understand why the guy doesn't want that kid back in his home. He even took preventative measures, hiding the ring and he setting up a camera after he caught his nephew snooping around. Then the kid threw the 4k ring down the sink because he didn't want to fess up and it could have easily just been washed down into the sewer and be lost forever (thank goodness for the advice he got from the other Redditors). I think that both the kid and his parents need this wakeup call. The stealing is a SERIOUS problem, and will land that kid in jail (juvie) if he doesn't stop. They're extremely lucky that the ring was found. Maybe now the parents will actually take it seriously. The situation sucks for the parents, but this is something they should have done something about much sooner instead of denying the problem exists, then they wouldn't haven gotten kicked out. Really happy for the OP though, that he found the ring, his girlfriend said yes, and that they're going to have a baby!
A 9 year old is unlikely to understand how plumbing works. I seriously doubt the child was intending to "hide" it in the sink. He most likely does not realize that there was a chance the ring would still be there in the bend. I'm glad he didn't flush it down the toilet. I think he was trying to get rid of it permanently. Whether he was just trying to do something hurtful to his uncle or didn't want to fess up or be caught, I don't know. He should understand by now that stealing is forbidden, upsets the people you steal from, and upsets his parents. He's been caught multiple times. While he is unlikely to be able to guess the value of that ring or how much work it took for his uncle to buy it, he likely grasps that it's expensive and important to him. This kid needs some help. I don't know if he has an empathy issue, an impulse issue, an anger issue, some other issue, but he's going down a bad road.
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Your brother, who cannot afford to replace something that he's legally responsible for wants to be let back into your house? You can tell him to keep his kid away from my house too.
are you kidding me? he found the ring after the thieving little bastard tossed it down the drain on the sink! so the brat knew Exactly what he was doing but didn't know about traps under sinks. if you have to disassemble a sink to "find" what the little SOB took it's not finding it's recovering, recovering stolen property. and 4k$ is grand theft. this poor dude's nephew is a budding sociopath and his tumblrina parents aren't doing anything, that kid is doomed. better off not in his life cause it will just get worse.
Kid needs help, family needs help. His stealing is his way of coping with the family upheaval. At least it isn’t pyromania or torturing animals.
It isn't his responsibility to manage the emotions of his nephew. It is the parents. And they don't seem to be doing jack squat to help him cope. No one is required to put up with a crappy situation because FaMilY or BlOoD. This is a young man about to start his own family. He doesn't need that messy s**t right now.
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He drew his boundaries.The man respects himself and stood up for the way he should be treated. Glad he found the ring. 9 yr old no right from wrong. .My grandson who is 7 destroyed a TV because he didn't get his own way. He tossed the remote .He threw one and hit my head. He is abusive verbally and physically. Time out and grounding doesn't work. I told her to take him to get him help before he kills someone.or I going to the police. Stand your ground.
Had a cousin and a brother in law that did this. Punched them once they never did it again(real punch to the stomach). Hit my wife in front of me I'll hit you...
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"You can parent your kid or get out of my house." "How can you just throw us out?" Nuff said, good riddance.
Honestly turning the kid in for theft and making him go through a juvienile crime/ therapy session might be what's needed to get him straight but that's up to op.
If this is the USA, this is a terrible idea. The criminal system is abusive, even for juveniles, and is not a replacement for therapy. Never do this to a family member to get them "straight."
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Yes, the ring WAS stolen. The kid took it when he did not have permission to, then threw it away and lied about it. The nephew is 9 years old and plenty old enough to know right from wrong. If anything, this kid's problem is only escalating. If kicking them out is what forces the parents to get help for the kid, then so be it.
I’m sure the stressful family life could be a factor and should be addressed….. but if the parents continuously reward/ignore this behavior, of course the kid is going to continue to engage and escalate to bigger or more expensive items. Especially if the parents have been called to the school and still never properly addressed it. Hopefully the kid gets some help. Once a kid goes to detention center, they’re exposed to awful influences. When my students have gone juve, they come back five times worse off for it. (I work with kids with significant anger issues, usually tied to trauma and poverty).
This is a mess regardless of the "happy ending". The repeated activity and the parents not making a big deal out of sticky fingers and his taking things from classmates, stores and family. I'm sure home life has not been easy. This boy and family needs some help and guidance how to deal with what could very easily steal with deadly consequences. The OP is right to stand his ground. The action should still have consequences. The violation in going through drawers and personal things to find something to take, another watch or whatever, and he finds the ring. Who knows what other things might turn up missing throughout the apartment. He stole it, he threw it down the drain and he lied. The action demands consequences. I hope someone helps his see how adding 4K additional hurdle impacted his family. Don't excuse it because it all worked out in the end.
had a family member to this when he was young, I reprimanded him while he was in my care but parents didn't fast forward came into my home 10 years later and stole my husband's collectibles, rare items. found out he was "finding" collectibles and selling them on kijiji at the age of 20. it is now a habit or fixation and will not stop. Was arrested for theft. Not ever coming into my home again, ever.
I have licked my step son (13) out becasue of his toxic behavior. He has stolen SO MANY things from me. Things I'll never get back or be able to replace. He also ruins things on purpose. He is vindictive as hell. He has even dumped my shampoo or mouthwash down the drain. He was always with us 1/2 the time. But his mom kicked him out about 2 yrs ago & was with us full time. Hes living a min down the road with his papa. I just can't have him here. Hes even gone through my purse, found my legally prescribed meds & threatened to tell people Im a drug addict and get my 7 yr old son taken away from me. I just can't deal with him and hes too toxic to have around. His dad denies the kid has issues and wont get him help. This is just the tip of the iceberg with all the things he does. Sometimes people assume adults are instantly the a*****e casue they're adults and the kids are kids, but sometimes theres only so much you can do, and so much yoy can take.
Imagine if that kid grows up to be a kleptomaniac xD But seriously happy he found it and that his proposal was successful. Understandable that his brother was stressed enough about the economy to deal with his sons problem. But there's no info on his wife doing anything about it?
This kid is going to end up in jail. And this is where spanking actually comes into play. Had a cousin like this. My mom was baby sitting him and he stole. When she found out she gave him a spanking. He nevee stole while she watched him again. And always treated her with respect. However he knew he could get away with it with his mom and continued to do it with her. He can't stay out of jail as an adult
Well....this situation sucks. I hope you will parent your children unlike your brother. The child knows it wrong....so do the parents. Stop excusing bad people doing bad things. Put down twitter or facebook and PARENT! Darn it!! The fact that the brother does not acknowledge his own part in this, do not give them another chance !!! They had one...they burned this bridge. Look out for your own new family and peace of mind!
Maybe it's an anxiety thing. If OP's finances were causing a lot of stress in the family, the kid will feel like his love could be turned upside down at any time. He knows that if he can get some money, his situation will be more secure. He might not be able to express these feelings very well. They need to speak with some type of counselor about this.
... and the chances that you're gonna be a better Dad than that other guy you share your Dad with, aren't that bad. Seriously, I know it may freak a 9 yo out massively to lose their home, to find out what they thought is granted actually isn't, that their situation sucks and all, but ... but, you take them in, spare them from cost and from whatnot, and their stupid son doesn't come up with anything else than stealing from the one guy who, likely, was the most helpful to them? I mean ... 9 yo do stupid things, even the ones who aren't stupid in general, and they might forget stuff we wonder how they can, and, and, and, and, and ... but that don't make this unhappened, you know ... trust that kid? Never again. If you have pets ... imagine just what an oh-so-funny kid can cause with them. I knew a guy who was in a similar situation, and their niece and nephew (11 and 8 at that time) fed both the cat and the dog with pretty much everything they found. Chocolate ice cream, instant-coffee, and a lot of things the pets refused to eat that might easily have poisoned them, could even have been lethal. So, they got kicked out. When their Grandma (mother of the guy I know and his sister, Grandma of the brats) got to know, she immediately disowned the guy protecting his family from his biological family. As I know both the cat and the dog, and the brats, I'm sure I wouldn't have reacted that polite, but ... maybe fed them to the pets? They're nutritious for sure, and I don't know anything else they're good for...
sooner or later the kid is going to steal from the wrong person and get a lot worse than just a talking to
Someone once told me “apology without a change of actions is meaningless”. I’m fairly sure this isn’t the first time nephew said he’s sorry after getting caught, and it clearly had no effect on him. At this point, the kid is a liability. Okay, this time around it was “just” stealing from the family but what’s gonna happen when he tries to steal from someone else and cops get called? At the end of the day, it’ll be OP’s house that now has stolen goods in it, and I really wouldn’t wanna be the one trying to explain to cops that 9 yo did it, especially when that 9 yo already has a proven track of lying to get himself out of trouble
I had a family member who exhibited similar behavior, and eventually it escalated to him setting the house on fire. The kid has already moved up from pocketing small things in stores to actively going into a family member's room and stealing things that were deliberately hidden from him. There's no telling what he'll do next.
I couldn't live with a klepto in my own home. Family may be family but you tried and at the end of the day your brothers problems aren't yours.
It's only a question of time before that kid ends up in jail, and when (not 'if') that happens, the parents are going to sob, "How could this have happened?? There was nothing that could've predicted this!!11 He's always been such a sweet, kind boy!!111"
Had this problem to a lesser extent. Had a certain young relative that would go through wallets and purses and take cash out. Another relative that would take anything small of value. Every single time the parents response was "....oh he/she said you gave them $100/the IPAD/ wrist watch etc. What you realize is that it needs to be made an big issue so the parents quickly address it. Have them deal with it before they have to explain why a stolen car is on the parents property. I wouldn't let them back in my house either. I'm going to ignore $4k cause your kid has some emotional issues you can't address? Tough break
Telling shop owners "he forgot he had it" has 1000% caused this chronic issue. He needs to hand it to the shop owner, admit that he took it, apologize, and take responsibility for his actions. That is an absolutely appropriate consequential action for a 9yo. (Or any age, actually.)
Ex in law stole my wedding ring before my ex & I divorced. They had & have drug problems & their parents did too. I loved them & felt terrible for them bc they had horrific childhood trauma, but I never let them back in my house. This person was in their 30s & had a long rap sheet. I hope these parents get their kid help before it’s too late.
I don't know what to do , it's tough. My family being mine I'd keep them living with me and put locks on doors and discipline the nephew if parents weren't. However , not all families are as close as mine . You've got to do what's best for you
Never would I allow a thief in my place. Those parents have issues as well. What a dysfunction family! Nope, the brother is getting married and expecting his own family. No room for them.
Was the brother who took them in also paying for all their food? If they haven't reached out for any assistance, how are they getting basic food needs met? Health needs, auto insurance? I wish I could feel better about this switching tracks and not just continuing to head downhill.
They still had savings, so I bet OP was paying for all their needs.
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Now that you are going to be a father, just make sure you are a better Parent than your brother is. And Congratulations, on your marriage and the up coming birth.
OP is dead on right for NOT letting his brother and family move back in. They need to address that kid before he ends up in prison or dead and enabling them by letting them live there is wrong. He is NTA and did the right thing.
What's next, grand theft auto? If he doesn't get help before too long!!
Also family will USE you the worst. Especially a soft hearted person like this guy. They will continue to use him until he basically moves out of his own place and continues to pay for it because it's in his name. There are more jobs available now than ever. Put a time limit on this stay and stick to it. Say 2 weeks. BTW once a person has lived in YOUR home for a few weeks and gets mail they are now considered tenents and you can't kick them out. You have to get them court ordered evicted which will give them 30 days. If they appeal and it drags then your screwed basically. Dont let back in. Don't let anybody stay more than 2 weeks. Period
You did the right thing. I also wouldn't let them back in the house... no way. In fact I would of called thr police the first day.
NTA. This is getting to a point whe it's no longer about money, it's all about TRUST. If you can't trust your own family anymore, there's literally nothing left of value between you guys. Move on.
I have never leaned on family for help while I still had savings. Last resorts are last resorts for a reason
Kid and parents need to know there are consequences for his behavior. I would have had the whole family look for the ring with this guys supervision. Still not found? Tough. Learn your lesson. Do chores to get $ to pay the guy back.
a bit off topic, but maybe someone who is from a land where paying huge chunks of money for an engagement ring is normal (and somewhat expected) can explain to me where this tradition comes from? I am Swiss, and here getting someone an engagment ring is a rather new thing, also people don't spend severeal salaries' worth on them. Mine was 150.-, white gold, tiny diamond, and I loved it. It would feel weird to have my SO spend so much cash on something that is pretty much just a "promise", not even the actual wedding band, and I'd rather put that money towards a nice honeymoon or equipent for future kids. I tried googling it but haven't really come up with THE one explanation for that..
I think it's time for the little thief to face some serious consequences, losing a place to live not just for himself but his family also, might just do the trick, if it doesn't the police have to get involved, otherwise he could carry on this way for the rest of his life!
Honestly, the best thing he could do is press charges. Obviously the kid has quite a history of stealing and he doesn't stop because there are never any real consequences. Time to give him some.
maybe this kid does need to sit in a cell for awhile to show him where stealing will get him put he is learning nothing from his parents ignoring it he has to be showed what the consequences of his actions are if they don't do something now it is only going to get worse the older he get's and it is going to be something that daddy and mommy won't be able to fix im not saying this to be mean i just wonder what his future will be if he doesn't learn what he is doing is going to get him into big trouble if it is not taken seriously congrats on your engagement and the baby i hope all goes well and im happy you found the ring i really don't think i would have been so calm about the situation
9 is more than old enough to understand stealing and lieing are wrong. Id be mortifiedd if my 10 yo grandson acted in such a manner.
I feel like you could have done them a favour by calling the cops. The kid would learn his lesson, or get help immediately in juvie.
I felt sorry for the kid when I read this, for all the people yelling at him. If he has taken things before, and gotten the impression, that it is not so bad (from stupid parents) how could he have known, that this was different. I believe it was thrown into the sink, because he got frightened at the yelling. Maybe if somebody had sat down with him and explained, that if he gave it back, and promised not to take anything else that didn't belong to himself or his father and mother, he would be forgiven and they would not be mad at him anymore. Then maybe he would have given it back and maybe even understood, that stealing is serious, which he clearly hadn't till then.
Your brother needs some serious parenting with his son and you don’t need that drama in your life. Not your problem it’s his . NTA in any of it .
NTA. I am happy for the OP that they are about to be married, but for the nephew, the kid needs serious help. If he was to continue his stealing habits, he would be arrested when he's grown up, sooner or later. It's best that therapy session is needed.
These parents know he 8s stealing and not doing anything. Maybe if they knew that they will be legally considered as a partner in the thefts too. WHY? Because they know yet they still take in to places to steal and don't seem to be concerned. Because he is 9 yrs old and that means he isn't legally responsible for himself, the parents are. That also means they are legally responsible for preventing these thefts or face theft charges themselves. I wonder if maybe they will take precautions then and get this child help NOW! If not I can 1000% guarantee he be will spend most of his juvenile in detention and adult life in prison! That's a fact Jack! So the parents are legally responsible for the theft of the ring and even though they are family this needs to be reported! TODAY!
This kid needs to lose something he values so he can understand better. If he doesn't have anything of value, his parents need to create something so they can take it away if he gets out of line. He is the perfect age to start getting an allowance for little chores, like taking out the garbage and picking up. Let him earn the allowance and. let him enjoy the fruits of it. But also let him know that if he gets caught stealing he will have to not only give the item back, but pay a penalty too to the victim. Also I'd like to add that this displaced family are all going through trauma. They need specific suggestions of what to do rather than non specific exclamations of "do something" or statements like "your kid is going to end up in prison." If this family knew what to do, they would have done it already. It is important that the allowance appears to come from THEM, but it wouldn't hurt to give them 5 or 10 bucks for the allowance regularly until they get back on their feet. Think of it as an investment in your nephew.
I feel so bad for the little boy. Crying out for attention because he's lost in all the turmoil of his parent's life. Turmoil bviously didn't just start recently if his behavior has been going on for awhile. And his response of not wanting to get in trouble? There is always more than 1 way to "confront a child about an illicit activity & pouncing on him like he's a big time thief didn't help. I'm not saying OP can't be upset but didn't handle situation well, imo. I hope he befriends his nephew. The boy needs a strong role model.
I'm sorry but it's not the OP's job to parent his brother's child. Trying to make it so just puts a huge unjust burden on him.
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Is it possible that the child is suffering from kleptomania? The 4K ring is steep, but I highly doubt that a 9 y/o can fully comprehend either the significance of the ring or its monetary value. Does he attend school and do American schools have free counsellors who could test the boy or refer him to a specialist? His behaviour is escalating and the time will come when he is going to be legally responsible for his behaviour. Mental health issues or not.
Yes, American schools have counselors but they can not force a solution. They can test and recommend but they cannot require the child be taken to therapy. There is an agency that can but it is tied to the criminal justice system.
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Oh yes, I'm sure they will find help for the kleptomaniac kid, if they don't have any money and probably live in US.
What does living in the US have to do with anything? I'm a nurse and health care for children is free here for those who can't afford it. People have all these incorrect opinions and views about a place they've never even been.
Load More Replies... So how was the brother supposed to fix this problem? Beat his kid? And was the poster in a position to know and evaluate his parenting techniques? It really doesn't sound like it. Kids do things. Every kid has issues, lots of times they are serious and need therapy, not discipline. And it's total kid logic to not say anything and hope the problem goes away. The OP just made his brother and his family homeless because he thinks he knows how kids work. For his child's sake I hope they are neurotypical and perfectly behaved. It sounds like he can't deal with anything else. And of course the ring was a major issue, but he still made a family homeless over repairable loss. Childless people sure know a lot about parenting!
The kid is nine and is vividly aware of his family's financial struggles and lack of stability. If my family were hurting that bad, I'd probably consider stealing too. It was wrong and he clearly panicked and was too scared to speak up, but I can't tell how much his circumstances played in his decisions. He needs "help", but first he needs stability and to feel like his needs are going to be met. Then see whether or not he continues to steal. I don't t think his behavior can be attributed to his character without considering the context. That said, his brother's family is not OP's responsibility, and it's his choice to decide if he wants them staying with him. Given the fact he and his fiance are about to start a new family, it's probably best they have their own space.
Sorry, but my biggest problem with all of this is the need to pay $4K for a ring ... commercialism has us putting a price and value on how we feel towards another person ... aside from that, f**k that nephew and his father ... they're leeches, but his wife may become one, as well, if he keeps to his standards ...
A safety deposit box at a bank or a small twenty dollar gun safe would have eliminated the problem. I hope the dude learns from this and insures the ring immediately. Perhaps the nephew thinks he is helping his family finances by thieving. If so someone should set the kid up with a crypto mining unit and a paper route. When the kid believes he is making money then the stealing will stop. The homeless brother should check out building superintendent positions. They come with a free apartment and a salary as well as benefits. O. P. Certainly isn't obligated to bankroll his family but he can teach them how to fish for themselves. Mom can get trained as a health care aide in a few weeks and it will give her some parenting skills. That makes three income streams.
I see a whole new career in stand up opening before you
Load More Replies... I think it's fair to say don't steal from me if you want to live here. But I also think yelling to vaguely become better at parenting and putting them under surveillance is a weird, passive way to communicate with family. Like are we all just getting ready for our wife swap episodes, to argue on Judge Judy and be miserable for middle American entertainment?
Weird and passive may have been the only other choice he could see than beat both brother and nephew.
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Don't know why or where my reply disappeared on this post. It shows up at random whenever and so what. It's totally irrelevant to any topic discussed. Good for you. It's like a fish riding a bicycle.
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Yes, you CAN throw your family out, when the child is a thief and the parents do nothing to stop it. You and your family were not like this man's entitled brother at all. You were grateful for the help, and you all did all you could to show your appreciation for the help that was given you. This man is not the klepto child's parent. Not his responsibility. And now, not his problem.
Load More Replies... I had a similar situation with a family member, but it went on for years. Don't do it. If you're done with the behavior don't torture yourself with being kind to them. Let them go on their way.
Quite wholesome after the initial drama. Might seem hard for some people who never experienced a thieving relative in the same household, but that’s really as described above. You can’t trust, you can’t always secure everything, and in the end you lose things, time, nerves and money. And yes things and money might be put behind family for some time. But all together this will put stress unto everything until someone breaks. So better keep distance, visit them instead of inviting a thief in your house. Ok, he is still a kid, and maybe he learns and grows up, and someday regains trust, but this doesn’t happen over night.
I have to wonder why a 9-year-old persists in stealing. As the OP wrote, I hope the parents can get help for him.
Load More Replies... I can understand why the guy doesn't want that kid back in his home. He even took preventative measures, hiding the ring and he setting up a camera after he caught his nephew snooping around. Then the kid threw the 4k ring down the sink because he didn't want to fess up and it could have easily just been washed down into the sewer and be lost forever (thank goodness for the advice he got from the other Redditors). I think that both the kid and his parents need this wakeup call. The stealing is a SERIOUS problem, and will land that kid in jail (juvie) if he doesn't stop. They're extremely lucky that the ring was found. Maybe now the parents will actually take it seriously. The situation sucks for the parents, but this is something they should have done something about much sooner instead of denying the problem exists, then they wouldn't haven gotten kicked out. Really happy for the OP though, that he found the ring, his girlfriend said yes, and that they're going to have a baby!
A 9 year old is unlikely to understand how plumbing works. I seriously doubt the child was intending to "hide" it in the sink. He most likely does not realize that there was a chance the ring would still be there in the bend. I'm glad he didn't flush it down the toilet. I think he was trying to get rid of it permanently. Whether he was just trying to do something hurtful to his uncle or didn't want to fess up or be caught, I don't know. He should understand by now that stealing is forbidden, upsets the people you steal from, and upsets his parents. He's been caught multiple times. While he is unlikely to be able to guess the value of that ring or how much work it took for his uncle to buy it, he likely grasps that it's expensive and important to him. This kid needs some help. I don't know if he has an empathy issue, an impulse issue, an anger issue, some other issue, but he's going down a bad road.
Load More Replies... Your brother, who cannot afford to replace something that he's legally responsible for wants to be let back into your house? You can tell him to keep his kid away from my house too.
are you kidding me? he found the ring after the thieving little bastard tossed it down the drain on the sink! so the brat knew Exactly what he was doing but didn't know about traps under sinks. if you have to disassemble a sink to "find" what the little SOB took it's not finding it's recovering, recovering stolen property. and 4k$ is grand theft. this poor dude's nephew is a budding sociopath and his tumblrina parents aren't doing anything, that kid is doomed. better off not in his life cause it will just get worse.
Kid needs help, family needs help. His stealing is his way of coping with the family upheaval. At least it isn’t pyromania or torturing animals.
It isn't his responsibility to manage the emotions of his nephew. It is the parents. And they don't seem to be doing jack squat to help him cope. No one is required to put up with a crappy situation because FaMilY or BlOoD. This is a young man about to start his own family. He doesn't need that messy s**t right now.
Load More Replies... He drew his boundaries.The man respects himself and stood up for the way he should be treated. Glad he found the ring. 9 yr old no right from wrong. .My grandson who is 7 destroyed a TV because he didn't get his own way. He tossed the remote .He threw one and hit my head. He is abusive verbally and physically. Time out and grounding doesn't work. I told her to take him to get him help before he kills someone.or I going to the police. Stand your ground.
Had a cousin and a brother in law that did this. Punched them once they never did it again(real punch to the stomach). Hit my wife in front of me I'll hit you...
Load More Replies... "You can parent your kid or get out of my house." "How can you just throw us out?" Nuff said, good riddance.
Honestly turning the kid in for theft and making him go through a juvienile crime/ therapy session might be what's needed to get him straight but that's up to op.
If this is the USA, this is a terrible idea. The criminal system is abusive, even for juveniles, and is not a replacement for therapy. Never do this to a family member to get them "straight."
Load More Replies... Yes, the ring WAS stolen. The kid took it when he did not have permission to, then threw it away and lied about it. The nephew is 9 years old and plenty old enough to know right from wrong. If anything, this kid's problem is only escalating. If kicking them out is what forces the parents to get help for the kid, then so be it.
I’m sure the stressful family life could be a factor and should be addressed….. but if the parents continuously reward/ignore this behavior, of course the kid is going to continue to engage and escalate to bigger or more expensive items. Especially if the parents have been called to the school and still never properly addressed it. Hopefully the kid gets some help. Once a kid goes to detention center, they’re exposed to awful influences. When my students have gone juve, they come back five times worse off for it. (I work with kids with significant anger issues, usually tied to trauma and poverty).
This is a mess regardless of the "happy ending". The repeated activity and the parents not making a big deal out of sticky fingers and his taking things from classmates, stores and family. I'm sure home life has not been easy. This boy and family needs some help and guidance how to deal with what could very easily steal with deadly consequences. The OP is right to stand his ground. The action should still have consequences. The violation in going through drawers and personal things to find something to take, another watch or whatever, and he finds the ring. Who knows what other things might turn up missing throughout the apartment. He stole it, he threw it down the drain and he lied. The action demands consequences. I hope someone helps his see how adding 4K additional hurdle impacted his family. Don't excuse it because it all worked out in the end.
had a family member to this when he was young, I reprimanded him while he was in my care but parents didn't fast forward came into my home 10 years later and stole my husband's collectibles, rare items. found out he was "finding" collectibles and selling them on kijiji at the age of 20. it is now a habit or fixation and will not stop. Was arrested for theft. Not ever coming into my home again, ever.
I have licked my step son (13) out becasue of his toxic behavior. He has stolen SO MANY things from me. Things I'll never get back or be able to replace. He also ruins things on purpose. He is vindictive as hell. He has even dumped my shampoo or mouthwash down the drain. He was always with us 1/2 the time. But his mom kicked him out about 2 yrs ago & was with us full time. Hes living a min down the road with his papa. I just can't have him here. Hes even gone through my purse, found my legally prescribed meds & threatened to tell people Im a drug addict and get my 7 yr old son taken away from me. I just can't deal with him and hes too toxic to have around. His dad denies the kid has issues and wont get him help. This is just the tip of the iceberg with all the things he does. Sometimes people assume adults are instantly the a*****e casue they're adults and the kids are kids, but sometimes theres only so much you can do, and so much yoy can take.
Imagine if that kid grows up to be a kleptomaniac xD But seriously happy he found it and that his proposal was successful. Understandable that his brother was stressed enough about the economy to deal with his sons problem. But there's no info on his wife doing anything about it?
This kid is going to end up in jail. And this is where spanking actually comes into play. Had a cousin like this. My mom was baby sitting him and he stole. When she found out she gave him a spanking. He nevee stole while she watched him again. And always treated her with respect. However he knew he could get away with it with his mom and continued to do it with her. He can't stay out of jail as an adult
Well....this situation sucks. I hope you will parent your children unlike your brother. The child knows it wrong....so do the parents. Stop excusing bad people doing bad things. Put down twitter or facebook and PARENT! Darn it!! The fact that the brother does not acknowledge his own part in this, do not give them another chance !!! They had one...they burned this bridge. Look out for your own new family and peace of mind!
Maybe it's an anxiety thing. If OP's finances were causing a lot of stress in the family, the kid will feel like his love could be turned upside down at any time. He knows that if he can get some money, his situation will be more secure. He might not be able to express these feelings very well. They need to speak with some type of counselor about this.
... and the chances that you're gonna be a better Dad than that other guy you share your Dad with, aren't that bad. Seriously, I know it may freak a 9 yo out massively to lose their home, to find out what they thought is granted actually isn't, that their situation sucks and all, but ... but, you take them in, spare them from cost and from whatnot, and their stupid son doesn't come up with anything else than stealing from the one guy who, likely, was the most helpful to them? I mean ... 9 yo do stupid things, even the ones who aren't stupid in general, and they might forget stuff we wonder how they can, and, and, and, and, and ... but that don't make this unhappened, you know ... trust that kid? Never again. If you have pets ... imagine just what an oh-so-funny kid can cause with them. I knew a guy who was in a similar situation, and their niece and nephew (11 and 8 at that time) fed both the cat and the dog with pretty much everything they found. Chocolate ice cream, instant-coffee, and a lot of things the pets refused to eat that might easily have poisoned them, could even have been lethal. So, they got kicked out. When their Grandma (mother of the guy I know and his sister, Grandma of the brats) got to know, she immediately disowned the guy protecting his family from his biological family. As I know both the cat and the dog, and the brats, I'm sure I wouldn't have reacted that polite, but ... maybe fed them to the pets? They're nutritious for sure, and I don't know anything else they're good for...
sooner or later the kid is going to steal from the wrong person and get a lot worse than just a talking to
Someone once told me “apology without a change of actions is meaningless”. I’m fairly sure this isn’t the first time nephew said he’s sorry after getting caught, and it clearly had no effect on him. At this point, the kid is a liability. Okay, this time around it was “just” stealing from the family but what’s gonna happen when he tries to steal from someone else and cops get called? At the end of the day, it’ll be OP’s house that now has stolen goods in it, and I really wouldn’t wanna be the one trying to explain to cops that 9 yo did it, especially when that 9 yo already has a proven track of lying to get himself out of trouble
I had a family member who exhibited similar behavior, and eventually it escalated to him setting the house on fire. The kid has already moved up from pocketing small things in stores to actively going into a family member's room and stealing things that were deliberately hidden from him. There's no telling what he'll do next.
I couldn't live with a klepto in my own home. Family may be family but you tried and at the end of the day your brothers problems aren't yours.
It's only a question of time before that kid ends up in jail, and when (not 'if') that happens, the parents are going to sob, "How could this have happened?? There was nothing that could've predicted this!!11 He's always been such a sweet, kind boy!!111"
Had this problem to a lesser extent. Had a certain young relative that would go through wallets and purses and take cash out. Another relative that would take anything small of value. Every single time the parents response was "....oh he/she said you gave them $100/the IPAD/ wrist watch etc. What you realize is that it needs to be made an big issue so the parents quickly address it. Have them deal with it before they have to explain why a stolen car is on the parents property. I wouldn't let them back in my house either. I'm going to ignore $4k cause your kid has some emotional issues you can't address? Tough break
Telling shop owners "he forgot he had it" has 1000% caused this chronic issue. He needs to hand it to the shop owner, admit that he took it, apologize, and take responsibility for his actions. That is an absolutely appropriate consequential action for a 9yo. (Or any age, actually.)
Ex in law stole my wedding ring before my ex & I divorced. They had & have drug problems & their parents did too. I loved them & felt terrible for them bc they had horrific childhood trauma, but I never let them back in my house. This person was in their 30s & had a long rap sheet. I hope these parents get their kid help before it’s too late.
I don't know what to do , it's tough. My family being mine I'd keep them living with me and put locks on doors and discipline the nephew if parents weren't. However , not all families are as close as mine . You've got to do what's best for you
Never would I allow a thief in my place. Those parents have issues as well. What a dysfunction family! Nope, the brother is getting married and expecting his own family. No room for them.
Was the brother who took them in also paying for all their food? If they haven't reached out for any assistance, how are they getting basic food needs met? Health needs, auto insurance? I wish I could feel better about this switching tracks and not just continuing to head downhill.
They still had savings, so I bet OP was paying for all their needs.
Load More Replies... Now that you are going to be a father, just make sure you are a better Parent than your brother is. And Congratulations, on your marriage and the up coming birth.
OP is dead on right for NOT letting his brother and family move back in. They need to address that kid before he ends up in prison or dead and enabling them by letting them live there is wrong. He is NTA and did the right thing.
What's next, grand theft auto? If he doesn't get help before too long!!
Also family will USE you the worst. Especially a soft hearted person like this guy. They will continue to use him until he basically moves out of his own place and continues to pay for it because it's in his name. There are more jobs available now than ever. Put a time limit on this stay and stick to it. Say 2 weeks. BTW once a person has lived in YOUR home for a few weeks and gets mail they are now considered tenents and you can't kick them out. You have to get them court ordered evicted which will give them 30 days. If they appeal and it drags then your screwed basically. Dont let back in. Don't let anybody stay more than 2 weeks. Period
You did the right thing. I also wouldn't let them back in the house... no way. In fact I would of called thr police the first day.
NTA. This is getting to a point whe it's no longer about money, it's all about TRUST. If you can't trust your own family anymore, there's literally nothing left of value between you guys. Move on.
I have never leaned on family for help while I still had savings. Last resorts are last resorts for a reason
Kid and parents need to know there are consequences for his behavior. I would have had the whole family look for the ring with this guys supervision. Still not found? Tough. Learn your lesson. Do chores to get $ to pay the guy back.
a bit off topic, but maybe someone who is from a land where paying huge chunks of money for an engagement ring is normal (and somewhat expected) can explain to me where this tradition comes from? I am Swiss, and here getting someone an engagment ring is a rather new thing, also people don't spend severeal salaries' worth on them. Mine was 150.-, white gold, tiny diamond, and I loved it. It would feel weird to have my SO spend so much cash on something that is pretty much just a "promise", not even the actual wedding band, and I'd rather put that money towards a nice honeymoon or equipent for future kids. I tried googling it but haven't really come up with THE one explanation for that..
I think it's time for the little thief to face some serious consequences, losing a place to live not just for himself but his family also, might just do the trick, if it doesn't the police have to get involved, otherwise he could carry on this way for the rest of his life!
Honestly, the best thing he could do is press charges. Obviously the kid has quite a history of stealing and he doesn't stop because there are never any real consequences. Time to give him some.
maybe this kid does need to sit in a cell for awhile to show him where stealing will get him put he is learning nothing from his parents ignoring it he has to be showed what the consequences of his actions are if they don't do something now it is only going to get worse the older he get's and it is going to be something that daddy and mommy won't be able to fix im not saying this to be mean i just wonder what his future will be if he doesn't learn what he is doing is going to get him into big trouble if it is not taken seriously congrats on your engagement and the baby i hope all goes well and im happy you found the ring i really don't think i would have been so calm about the situation
9 is more than old enough to understand stealing and lieing are wrong. Id be mortifiedd if my 10 yo grandson acted in such a manner.
I feel like you could have done them a favour by calling the cops. The kid would learn his lesson, or get help immediately in juvie.
I felt sorry for the kid when I read this, for all the people yelling at him. If he has taken things before, and gotten the impression, that it is not so bad (from stupid parents) how could he have known, that this was different. I believe it was thrown into the sink, because he got frightened at the yelling. Maybe if somebody had sat down with him and explained, that if he gave it back, and promised not to take anything else that didn't belong to himself or his father and mother, he would be forgiven and they would not be mad at him anymore. Then maybe he would have given it back and maybe even understood, that stealing is serious, which he clearly hadn't till then.
Your brother needs some serious parenting with his son and you don’t need that drama in your life. Not your problem it’s his . NTA in any of it .
NTA. I am happy for the OP that they are about to be married, but for the nephew, the kid needs serious help. If he was to continue his stealing habits, he would be arrested when he's grown up, sooner or later. It's best that therapy session is needed.
These parents know he 8s stealing and not doing anything. Maybe if they knew that they will be legally considered as a partner in the thefts too. WHY? Because they know yet they still take in to places to steal and don't seem to be concerned. Because he is 9 yrs old and that means he isn't legally responsible for himself, the parents are. That also means they are legally responsible for preventing these thefts or face theft charges themselves. I wonder if maybe they will take precautions then and get this child help NOW! If not I can 1000% guarantee he be will spend most of his juvenile in detention and adult life in prison! That's a fact Jack! So the parents are legally responsible for the theft of the ring and even though they are family this needs to be reported! TODAY!
This kid needs to lose something he values so he can understand better. If he doesn't have anything of value, his parents need to create something so they can take it away if he gets out of line. He is the perfect age to start getting an allowance for little chores, like taking out the garbage and picking up. Let him earn the allowance and. let him enjoy the fruits of it. But also let him know that if he gets caught stealing he will have to not only give the item back, but pay a penalty too to the victim. Also I'd like to add that this displaced family are all going through trauma. They need specific suggestions of what to do rather than non specific exclamations of "do something" or statements like "your kid is going to end up in prison." If this family knew what to do, they would have done it already. It is important that the allowance appears to come from THEM, but it wouldn't hurt to give them 5 or 10 bucks for the allowance regularly until they get back on their feet. Think of it as an investment in your nephew.
I feel so bad for the little boy. Crying out for attention because he's lost in all the turmoil of his parent's life. Turmoil bviously didn't just start recently if his behavior has been going on for awhile. And his response of not wanting to get in trouble? There is always more than 1 way to "confront a child about an illicit activity & pouncing on him like he's a big time thief didn't help. I'm not saying OP can't be upset but didn't handle situation well, imo. I hope he befriends his nephew. The boy needs a strong role model.
I'm sorry but it's not the OP's job to parent his brother's child. Trying to make it so just puts a huge unjust burden on him.
Load More Replies... Is it possible that the child is suffering from kleptomania? The 4K ring is steep, but I highly doubt that a 9 y/o can fully comprehend either the significance of the ring or its monetary value. Does he attend school and do American schools have free counsellors who could test the boy or refer him to a specialist? His behaviour is escalating and the time will come when he is going to be legally responsible for his behaviour. Mental health issues or not.
Yes, American schools have counselors but they can not force a solution. They can test and recommend but they cannot require the child be taken to therapy. There is an agency that can but it is tied to the criminal justice system.
Load More Replies... Oh yes, I'm sure they will find help for the kleptomaniac kid, if they don't have any money and probably live in US.
What does living in the US have to do with anything? I'm a nurse and health care for children is free here for those who can't afford it. People have all these incorrect opinions and views about a place they've never even been.
Load More Replies... So how was the brother supposed to fix this problem? Beat his kid? And was the poster in a position to know and evaluate his parenting techniques? It really doesn't sound like it. Kids do things. Every kid has issues, lots of times they are serious and need therapy, not discipline. And it's total kid logic to not say anything and hope the problem goes away. The OP just made his brother and his family homeless because he thinks he knows how kids work. For his child's sake I hope they are neurotypical and perfectly behaved. It sounds like he can't deal with anything else. And of course the ring was a major issue, but he still made a family homeless over repairable loss. Childless people sure know a lot about parenting!
The kid is nine and is vividly aware of his family's financial struggles and lack of stability. If my family were hurting that bad, I'd probably consider stealing too. It was wrong and he clearly panicked and was too scared to speak up, but I can't tell how much his circumstances played in his decisions. He needs "help", but first he needs stability and to feel like his needs are going to be met. Then see whether or not he continues to steal. I don't t think his behavior can be attributed to his character without considering the context. That said, his brother's family is not OP's responsibility, and it's his choice to decide if he wants them staying with him. Given the fact he and his fiance are about to start a new family, it's probably best they have their own space.
Sorry, but my biggest problem with all of this is the need to pay $4K for a ring ... commercialism has us putting a price and value on how we feel towards another person ... aside from that, f**k that nephew and his father ... they're leeches, but his wife may become one, as well, if he keeps to his standards ...
A safety deposit box at a bank or a small twenty dollar gun safe would have eliminated the problem. I hope the dude learns from this and insures the ring immediately. Perhaps the nephew thinks he is helping his family finances by thieving. If so someone should set the kid up with a crypto mining unit and a paper route. When the kid believes he is making money then the stealing will stop. The homeless brother should check out building superintendent positions. They come with a free apartment and a salary as well as benefits. O. P. Certainly isn't obligated to bankroll his family but he can teach them how to fish for themselves. Mom can get trained as a health care aide in a few weeks and it will give her some parenting skills. That makes three income streams.
I see a whole new career in stand up opening before you
Load More Replies... I think it's fair to say don't steal from me if you want to live here. But I also think yelling to vaguely become better at parenting and putting them under surveillance is a weird, passive way to communicate with family. Like are we all just getting ready for our wife swap episodes, to argue on Judge Judy and be miserable for middle American entertainment?
Weird and passive may have been the only other choice he could see than beat both brother and nephew.
Load More Replies... Don't know why or where my reply disappeared on this post. It shows up at random whenever and so what. It's totally irrelevant to any topic discussed. Good for you. It's like a fish riding a bicycle.
Load More Replies... Yes, you CAN throw your family out, when the child is a thief and the parents do nothing to stop it. You and your family were not like this man's entitled brother at all. You were grateful for the help, and you all did all you could to show your appreciation for the help that was given you. This man is not the klepto child's parent. Not his responsibility. And now, not his problem.
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