“5 Reasons ‘Body Positivity’ Is Evil” – Guy Starts A Discussion About The Toxicity Of The Body Positivity Movement Interview With Author
Body positivity is a touchy topic, even to this very day. While some fully embrace it for helping people accept who they are with all of their flaws, others are more careful about voicing their support because they believe that some use it as an excuse for unhealthy habits. Meanwhile, fitness expert Jack Bly sparked a bit of internet drama over on Twitter after sharing his 5 reasons why he believes that body positivity is ‘evil.’
Like you could have expected, this approach made quite a few people angry while others stood in support of Jack’s views. Have a read through his arguments below and let us know in the comments what you think of them, dear Pandas.
In reality, body positivity and fitness are very sticky and nuanced topics. They aren’t as black and white as people would prefer to paint them, whatever their views on the subject. Each individual case and the small details matter a lot. For instance, a personal trainer I’d spoken to earlier pointed out that body positivity greatly depends on the context of the individual and the movement can be “both extremely helpful and potentially harmful.”
Meanwhile, The Guardian notes that we need to have those unpleasant conversations about weight and health instead of “leaping straight to the friendly hashtag, complete with women detailing their own blessed journeys towards inner beauty.” Uncomfortable? Yes. Necessary? Also yes.
I reached out to Jack and he was kind enough to go in-depth about the thread and his views on body positivity. “When it comes to TRUE body positivity, I think it can be a good belief system for things regarding our appearance that may be out of our control,” he told Bored Panda, pointing out some examples where it works such as in the case of burn victims, people with disabilities, etc.
“But, it is a terrible belief system when it comes to things in your control,” he noted that, in his opinion, this doesn’t work with obesity. “Like I mentioned in my thread, a lot of misinformation has been thrown around due to this which is extremely detrimental to everyone.”
Jack shared the reasons why he personally believes that the body positivity movement is ‘evil’
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Jack told Bored Panda that, overall, he received “an OVERWHELMING amount of support” that far outweighed any criticism that he got.
I wanted to get Jack’s take on what we should do if we’re looking to improve our level of fitness but we’re constantly finding ourselves without much energy to see things through.
“If you’re someone who is SERIOUS about making a permanent body transformation but feels like you’ve tried everything before, don’t want to do another miserable diet, or don’t have much time to commit… you need to invest in a coach,” he put it simply that the support of a professional helps immensely.
“Countless studies show the power of accountability when it comes to achieving any goal. And we know that where we invest our time & money reveal our true priorities. If you want an area to improve you MUST invest your resources there. And, just know that EVERYONE is capable of achieving the body they can be proud of.”
He added: “You can do this!!!”
There are plenty of perspectives on body positivity even among professionals. It’s a topic full of nuance
Earlier, personal trainer and physiotherapist Paulius Lipskis explained to me that we have to be completely honest about ourselves, our health, and our fitness levels.
“Somebody could potentially use the body positivity movement as an excuse for their unhealthy habits, however, if the movement encourages you to accept and embrace yourself, it’s something that you should strive to follow,” he told Bored Panda during an earlier interview.
“It’s also a problem if you view healthy living as something that you’re forced to do. If you’re constantly angry, tired, and you’re low on energy—it’s an issue,” the personal trainer said.
According to trainer Paulius, you can’t force someone to want to change; their desire to change their lifestyle must come from within.
“Usually, our unhealthy habits are a result of constant stress and our behavior that’s meant to protect us from it. If we would have an honest chat with ourselves, we’d clearly see that we’re dissatisfied with ourselves only when we feel that we’re using our bad habits to cover our emotions,” the fitness expert said.
“However, if we accept that we’re not perfect, we’re not pressured to change. That’s when you start developing a natural desire and curiosity to find out what the best possible version of you is.”
Meanwhile, Eva Wiseman shared in an article on The Guardian that the body positivity movement increases the pressure and guilt that overweight people feel. In her opinion, we’re better off finding peace with our bodies instead of loving ourselves as we are.
“‘Everybody’s beautiful, and all bodies are perfect!’ said 2019, to a small murmur from those pointing out that the workplace, Tinder, fashion, and health professionals disagree. The effect, then, was a feeling of isolation, and a doubling of guilt. Guilt both for living in a body that doesn’t fit and for wanting to change it,” Wiseman said that we ought to move toward body neutrality, not positivity.
People reacted to Jack’s post in a lot of different ways. Some were completely in favor of his view…
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…others had a different opinion and were much more critical of Jack’s approach
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Meanwhile, some Twitter users pointed out that body positivity and the health industry are all about making money
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I may be wrong but I have thought body positivity is about loving yourself no matter how you look. And this self love means that you take care of your mind and body. A person can definitely be slightly overweight or underweight but still healthy. But willingly going beyond that means self destruction and needs to be addressed.
That's indeed how body positivity started out. Love your healthy body despite it's "imperfections". It was a reaction against the magazines telling people to get plastic surgery for no good reason at all. Today it's changed to: "Love your body even when you're unhealthy overweight and you're uncomfortable and miserable not being able to do what you want to do."
"Being uncomfortable and miserable" is not something anyone strives to be just for the sake of being fat. The "love your body" message is being misconstrued, like that Cosmo mag (which NO ONE should be reading anyway) -- but you absolutely should love your body even if you are overweight, because however you got there that weight is not coming off overnight, and we shouldn't be starving ourselves on 500 calorie diets just to make trolls happy. It's up to our doctors to tell us our personal health issues and help us meet our goals, it's not up to bitter old aunts and incels to shame us for something that we could be working to fix for all they know. It was meant as a response to all the verbal abuse, because harassment isn't motivation.
"It's up to our doctors to tell us our personal health issues" Do you rely on someone else to tell you that you're doing something detrimental to yourself? You can't make the decision for yourself that "I'm not really healthy so I'm going to talk with a professional to see what I can do."?
Hi V. Not all weight problems are self inflicted, just so you know. Things like insulin resistance, PCOS, medications etc etc can cause weight issues.
Hm. Do you realise why people are uncomfortable in their own skins? Cause society tells them they are burden, they are worthless. FFS. ALL FAT PEOPLE KNOW THEY CAN DIE YOUNG. All fat people wish they could change. But it's either mental helth, or actual somatic disease (or both) keeping them in place. It's not f*****g trend. Noone wishes to be fat. Noone wishes to be unattractive. Noone wishes to be in health risk. But sometimes you are what you are. I have PCOS. After half year of strict diet and regular trainings, I got nowhere. Not even that, my blood test went worse. Cause I'm damn unlucky and my ovaries f**k up my whole organism. But I'm sure you would be happy, skinny and healthy in my place, cause it's all about not being lazy...
There are trends, statistically speaking. Americans are trending toward obesity. There are causes and we aren’t addressing them. We are barely studying them. Some of it is deeply entrenched culture (employment, dietary, activities, and this “love yourself the way you are” overcompensation). This combines with counter-intuitive and often seemingly conflicting dietary advise (and humanity is still learning; we don’t really know as much as we should). Then there’s the likelihood of environmental pollution screwing up people’s hormones, which none of us can do shite about because we live in a plutocratic oligarchy.
I love my body; overweight as I am, I'm not unhappy or miserable. I eat a healthy diet though I have a lot of restrictions due to IBS. At 49 I look years younger, and I'd never have any plastic surgery even if someone offered it for free
went on twitter to check some few things. wanted to see what kind of man he is to decide what to think about his statement. there is another very informative thread on his account that says a lot about him and gives a totally different perspective to this one : " 7 Reasons You Must Embrace "Toxic Masculinity" " ... do we need to explain any further his real motivations for criticizing body positivity ???
That was very informative thanks. What a jerk
And you show yourself to put more value in "fact" rather than fact. You don't like the truth behind his statement above, effectively that body positivity has turned into a toxic thing, so you dig in so you can find a reason to dismiss this particular statement. You'd rather live your life in your little echo chamber instead. Amazingly enough, truth actually rises above the fray regardless of the person or entity saying the truth. I nor anyone else on this planet has to agree 100% with everything that any person says or does in order to acknowledge an instance of actual truth or correctness. You're effectively dismissing actual truth for no real reason.
@v : It’s not about dismissing the issue as false. It’s about being careful not to think this guy has any real credibility. Douchebags are entirely capable of having a good opinion, but that doesn’t mean we should take advise from them.
What kind of credibility does a person need if they say something that is actually true/truth?
absolutely not !! that guy is toxic. he is just a bully fat shaming obese people. he doesn't care about public health. all i'm saying is obesity is a problem but obese people deserve respect and judging them belittling them insulting them putting them down thinking they are to blame when so many other reasons explain massive obesity in the us is wrong on so many levels !!! that's sad you don't even see it !! and that's scary
Look at your commenting style. You are toxic. You're no better than he is.
I'm not surprised. I expected at least a couple of other dumb posts, considering this one.
Your comment lends itself to two fallacious ways of thinking. 1.) Genetic fallacy:' this point is bad because the person who made the point is bad'. 2.) Argument from fallacy: 'this conclusion isn't true because this person has engaged in fallacy or has underhanded motives'. Better to engage with the actual conclusions than nitpick at the ethics of the person who reached it, no?
@toast : Correct. However, it’s very important to recognize those who DO promote fallacy and who DO have underhanded motives. We can accept that this is a valid take on “body positivity” WHILE ALSO recognizing this guy is a douche.
Certainly, but I think that kind of investigation points to something deeper in this instance. In Abhinc's line, "do we need to explain any further his real motivations for criticizing body positivity?", they imply that this person is criticizing body positivity not for their actual criticisms and points made, but to promote misogyny. If that is the case, it's a way of distancing yourself from your critique without backing it up (much like throwing in "allegedly" or "I heard" without any evidence and then not having to be held accountable for the claim later, even if it paints the person in a negative light) instead of saying "this post supports misogyny because of such and such", which actually would hold some water. Otherwise it just sounds like they can't criticize the actual points, or delineate how these points promote bigotry, and are rather more interested in shutting down the perspective altogether.
Also, after looking into his 'toxic masculinity' twitter thread that was sited as the evidence of his underhanded motives, it's quite literally just milquetoast "men need to provide for their families and protect them" stuff, rather than "modern women are all ugly wh*res" incel type posting.. he's a z-list internet fitness guy, I'm not sure what you'd expect. The actual points are not particularly controversial and likely the sort of thing that the vast majority of Americans would agree with, he just used a hot-button title to get people worked up, essentially clickbait. Combined with Abhinc's emotionally charged accusations of OP bullying and judging obese individuals which is *ENTIRELY* detached from either of the two twitter threads that'd been mentioned or the points included in them, I get the sense that Abhinc actually has an underhanded motive themselves to avoid challenging the critiques of the body+ movement.
I didn’t see that, but I felt it in everything he posts. See my root level comment about his credibility... Thanks for pointing it out. It’s more evidence that my douche-radar is actually working.
What has that to do with this?
seriously ??? do you really need explanations ??? are you that blind ??? let me tell you a story. there is another professional coach some few years ago who decided to gain a lot of weight on purpose. he wanted to know exactly what overweight people go through in order to adapt his programs ans statements etc because he wanted to be useful efficient supportive ... this is the way to deal with that topic !!! the guy we are talking about here is just a self centered arrogant judgemental and toxic sicko !!!
What's so wrong with you saying "Yea, this guy really is an asshole but on this particular topic he's got a point." (the truth is that he does have a valid point on this topic). What he does or says on any other topic doesn't take away from the fact that he has a valid point here. Go live in your echo chamber. In a few years you'll be seeing the same sentiment he stated here coming from your own and you'll embrace it as ABSOLUTE TRUTH!.
@v : he does have a valid point here, but we need to fuel the discussion from a better source than this guy.
your attitude explains why you support him. you are the same kind of arrogant and judgemental person. context changes everything. his other threads explain who he is and invalidates the fact he really cares about public health. but let's admit he does !! his method is totally wrong no matter what you pretend
Your context is that you attack militantly. I'll take the right to dismiss everything you say because of your militant commenting style. You may very well have some very good and valid things to say but your context is all wrong.
In both that thread and this one he's telling people to take responsibility for themselves. What is it about that that has you so angry?
i'm angry because i just can't stand people like you that are toxic and judge victims !!! poverty and mental issues like depression or anxiety are the main causes of obesity. not laziness or whatever criticism you invent !!!
Lack of exercise, diet and genetics are all greater causes for obesity than mental illness, or the drugs used to treat them.
@R L : cite your sources. I started my path toward excessive body fat ENTIRELY because of psych drugs I was coerced onto in late 2004. I literally ate a box of cookies in my sleep before I realized what was happening and got off the drug that was messing with my carbohydrate metabolization. There are SO MANY PROBLEMS with long-term psych drug usage and inability to control body weight is a major issue (the primary issue though is physiological addiction; it creates the illusion of “relapsing” when trying to not be dependent on pharmaceutical products - made much worse by people’s issues never being addressed and only throwing drugs at them, and telling them they were just born broken).
How does blaming others make you lose weight? I mean I get and totally agree it was easier to stay in shape when there wasn't a McDonalds on every corner, but they're not going away and government can't help with that.
You made the statement. Show us the facts that laziness isn't one of the main causes of obesity. It's on you, not us, to prove your statement of "fact".
i mentioned several studies and articles ... read them before you try to lecture me but i'll give you one information. i live in france. here we have additional taxes on sugary drinks we have laws saying what can be the maximum amount of sugar that can be added to soft drinks. and so on ... we have 3 or 4 times less obese people than the US. is that a coincidence ? i don't think so
you want people to take responsibilities for their actions ??? blame fast food and soft drinks corporation that behave like drug dealers by putting crazy amount of sugar in their products and politicians that don't take actions !!! blame employers that don't pay enough to give their employees time and money enough to eat healthier !!! the whole system is guilty !!! not obese people
Blame fast food and soft drink companies? Why? Are they holding a person to a life or death choice of using their respective products as sole sustenance? Guess what? The canned vegetables at the grocery store, while possibly less nutritious than their fresh counter part, are VASTLY more nutritious than fast food and VASTLY less expensive than fast food when fast food is used as sole source sustenance. For myself I can make a breakfast, for about one hour worth of effort on one day, scramble of frozen diced potatoes, bacon, eggs, half an onion and one bell pepper that gives me a filling breakfast for all 7 days of the week for a cost of right around $2 per serving. The same at a fast food place would cost at least twice as much per serving. Laziness extends past the aspect of exercise. Laziness encompasses the lack of willingness to actually do things that would save a person money AND allow them to have so much more control of what they are putting in their body.
what about the non stop increasing size of portions ?? and the non stop increasing amount of sugar added everywhere ? in europe with the normal portion for one person in the US you could feed 3 persons. that is insane and there is something really wrong that you should addres instead of shaming and insulting obese people. other things that "encompass the lack of willingness to actually do things that would save a person money AND allow them to have so much more control of what they are putting in their body." lack of self esteem depression anxiety and so on !! and that guy puts down people who already lack self esteem. he is a bully !!
That is such a lame excuse. "The system is guilty", not the fat ones. Does the system shove food down their throats?
When I was in younger I was bullied and made fun of so much for my weight I did whatever I could to not have to go to school. I even developed this psycho-somatic cough that was a loud bark - loud and constant and it meant I could stay home. This went on for 5 years. My mom finally got me into therapy and I switched schools. It got better. If social media had been around during this time, I can 100% tell you I would’ve killed myself (the bullying wouldn’t have been limited to just at school). Why am I telling you this? Because if I had someone tell me it was ok to just be me and I saw examples in the media of people like me in the fun clothes, maybe I wouldn’t have lost 5 years of my life. I am the type of person this movement is for.
Yes, it does. Have you heard of food deserts? They're a huge problem and people literally don't have healthy options, or all the healthy stuff is crazy expensive. Also, fresh food is just generally more expensive and time consuming to prepare, so the people more inclined to get unhealthy instant meals are the ones who are overworked and underpaid. Shame on you for your lack of empathy, as if you, a person saying mean things on the internet, are morally superior to hardworking and underappreciated people who are fat.
Why does it always have to be fresh food? Are the canned vegetables not more nutritious than fast food AND less expensive than fresh? Is it honestly not possible to make a nutritious meal based on readily available pre-processed (canned veggies, cheap cuts of meat, etc..) for a lower cost than fast food on a per serving basis? People are more inclined to get unhealthy instant meals because they find it easier to claim "it's too expensive" when compared to them taking the time to learn how to and the time needed to prepare the meal. The individual subsisting on fast food will easily spend somewhere between $10 and $30 per day on fast food ($70-$210 per week). Take the effort to imagine how much nutritious, though unprepared, food this same amount of money could buy. I've done it and continue to do so. So many times I'd rather have the local fast food combo breakfast but I chose not to spend $5 or so for breakfast when I can have a good breakfast for half the cost.
@Konpat : Culture (what people are raised to believe and what is marketed to them aggressively) and access (availability and finances) have a MASSIVE impact on what you think is free will.
the only lame thing i see here is your comment !! read the articles i mentioned. do some research about the sugar industry lobbying scandals !! looks like you need it. your judgemental toxic statement is sickening !! poverty and mental issues ARE the main reasons why people are obese. the lack of political actions and the crazy amount of sugar corporations put in everything is evil !! let me tell you something !! i'm french. here we have laws about the maximum amount of sugar that can be added in soft drinks. soft drinks corporations pay additional taxes. etc etc ... we have 3 or 4 times less obese people than the US ... coincidence ?? i don't think so !!
Everything!! about what you are saying!! is nothing!! more than you deflecting!! responsibility from the individual!! to some other!! outside entity!! do you really?? understand?? that you're losing ground far faster than you're gaining it?? i don't think so!!
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Whether you like the person or not, if their message is correct than it's correct. This is why we have so much vaccine misinformation. How you feel about Fauci or scientists talking about the facts doesn't stop his topics being facts. You don't want to listen to truth because you don't like him as a person, pretty narrow minded and one sided imo. Try opening your mind and growing a little.
fact is his message is not correct !!! he is just a toxic sexist judgemental sicko !!! blaming victims is a terrible way of addressing a problem. POVERTY causes obesity !!! MENTAL HEALTH causes obesity. the whole society then is to blame !!! not obese people
Prove your statement of "fact". I lived about half of my life at the upper end of the poverty line yet I'm not obese. There are so many others who have lived their lives at the upper end all the way down to the bottom of poverty that aren't obese. You've no actual argument to make so now your pulling s**t out of your ass.
@v : Please read about survivorship bias.
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good !! my actual arguments are mentioned in articles and studies i gave you the opportunity of reading. if you prefer avoiding information to keep up with your judgemental toxic opinionated narrow minded arrogant attitude good for you but that comment says much more about you than it affects me. since you need to try insulting me instead of being able to give actual arguments based on informative thoughts ... guess who is pulling s### out of their ass ? don't lecture someone when you don't even succeed in being who you ask other to be
Look at you telling others not to lecture. Maybe you should have stopped while you were ahead?
Keep using lots of exclamation marks and referring to third party litterature without actually stating any arguments and lecturing while claiming you don't lecture. What are you, 12?
third party litterature ?? articles from the NY times or the Washington Post ? seriously. oh btw. trying to insult or belittle someone shows you just have zero point to base your argumentation on. oh and i just read in another BP article about insecurity "focusing on grammar" instead of focusing on what is said ... does it ring a bell Konpat ?
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how can you compare that guy to Fauci ??? just avoid lecturing people or belittling anybody !!! that just proves you have not factual point and are unable to argue. on a medical level yes !!! obesity is a health issue. all i'm saying is obese people are the victims of a system and victim shaming is extremely coward and dishonest and soooo toxic !!! i'm sure he is the kind of guy that could say about a raped woman she should have dressed differently and this is sickening !!! you call me narrow minded when you refuse to see his real motivations ?? put this thread in context. it DOES give it a totally different meaning.
Way to now put words in someone's mouth saying he is insulting women on the topic of rape, that's just crazy. I find it funny how you tell me not to lecture but half of your comments I read is telling people what to do or think....hmm sounds like a lecture to me! Maybe take your own advice?
don't you see a difference between addressing the fact that obesity IS a matter of public health and shaming obese people ? i find it extremely sad and disappointing that people need to be reminded they have to be respectful to others !! obesity is a much bigger and more complex problem than pretending obese people are stupid and lazy ! but if you think putting people down will help them i'll say it again ! you are toxic !!
Yeah I guess I will have to say it one more time for you to hopefully get it..."stop putting words in other people's mouths!" I never once said that obese people are stupid or lazy and I never said we need to put them down. I said (I hope you retain this) that ads glorifying obese body shapes with words like "this is healthy" or "this is fit" are wrong and do more damage than good. Obesity is a huge problem and is very complex from the food available for people, socioeconomic issues, race, and even gender. What you are saying is we should tell them they are healthy and move on and I say no. You can be honest about weight without shoving it in someone's face, you might not know how to do that but it's possible. Honestly I'm done arguing with you, be better.
You're calling people out on their ability to argue? What world do you live in in which you're a shining example of the ability to argue?
Avoid the problem and it'll go away. An absolutely fantastic way to make your way through life.
Yes!! to your first two sentences. Have fun and be happy with however you look in a swimsuit or whatever defect is visible, and look at others with the same respect - they are people, no matter what skin they are in. But overweight and underweight are medical terms. Doctors and researchers have said that these are not OK. These go outside of an acceptable range which puts people at higher risk of diseases and behaviors which are not 'living your best life.' I am of the mind that I genuinely do not care what you look like and how you decide to dress, but cognizant that being overweight does affect you, as well as the people around you and the people in your society. That being said, shaming individuals is not helpful. This is a problem of society and people need to be taught that they are victims of industry; Cheap food is a trap, cheese is not healthy, burgers and soda should not be at every meal, fruit juice and sweet tea with the same sugar is not a healthy alternative to soda, etc.
Honestly, whoever does not know those things about crappy food has to be a wilfully ignorant person. This knowledge is everywhere, you don't even need to be that well educated to know that. Let people take at least some part of the responsibility for their own health!
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honestly whoever pretends obese people are just lazy and stupid is a wilfully toxic person. the problem is much bigger and deeper than that. you shouldn't need to be reminded about respect.
So mind positivity would be "love yourself no matter what how you think"? Some mindsets are just wrong, so are some bodies. We are talking about massive obesity with a BMI way beyond 40 and not the muscular type. If you are in that area you have either an eating problem or an illness causing that weight. Both need to treated.
Why is morbidly obese always dismissed as some form of medical problem? Why is it so difficult to admit that some people are morbidly obese simply because they don't care?
@v : ... because it’s a dehumanizing, victim-blaming, uninformed, antipathetic, monstrous assumption. THAT’S why.
and if they don't care about their health and body that's because they have no self esteem and this is some kind of suicidal behavior which is a mental issue ... being that manichean and judgemental is so wrong and so stupid !! and insulting them putting them down belittling them is clearly not gonna help !! you don"t need to be brutally honest. this is just being a bully !! obese people are people and deserve respect. this doesn't mean obesity can't be addressed. these are 2 very different things !! and being unhealthy when you're obese ? i guess they already know. support them and help them instead of destroying them even more. you are toxic and the fact you don't even realize it is scary and sickening.
You're not wrong. This guy doesn't understand body positivity. And I wouldn't even consider myself a member of the body positive "community" if we can call it that. But I don't think being cruel to someone over their weight has ever helped them.
That's the thing people aren't being cruel when they're saying someone is unhealthy. But that's what people do they twisted into shaming and being negative and nasty when they're not. That's the man's point.
And that's how it got going, then they turned the amp up to 11 and extol the virtue of being obese.
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It really isn't. "Body positivity" is the way people justify deliberately ignoring their health. People would rather commit slow suicide than take care of themselves.
you are wrong !!! body positivity is for people who don't want or can't keep up with physical social standards. like for instance if you have a few pounds more than people think you should, you can still be very healthy and happy and have a normal life !! it's not only for very morbid obese people. everything is not all black or white. stop being so narrow minded !! and in any case ... who do you think you are to pretend you can judge people that are not like you ?? and if you really think those people are wrong and need help are you sure insulting them belittling them judging them putting them down will give any kind of positive result ?? take a few minutes to think about your words and attitude !!!
You should as talk your own advice. You are saying it's good to tell people who are hurting themselves that it's healthy...how sick can you get. "Hey good job over eating and being tired walking up one flight of stairs, don't worry you are healthy!!" How about instead leave people alone but if they ask about their health you tell the truth and stop lying to people. Just sad.
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nobody ever said that !!! overeating IS hurting yourself. obesity IS a health issue that needs to be addressed !!! body positivity is just a way to remind people that respect is a basic social skill that can't be forgotten. do you really think obese people need to hear it's not healthy ?? they know !!! do you really think blaming and shaming them is gonna help ?? NO !!! and once again they are victims of a system !!! they need help respect and support. they don't deserve to be blamed or shamed.
You talk about "Them", the obese, as if they're too stupid to make their own healthy decisions. Victims. Really, you seriously mean that they cannot be made responsible for their own eating habits and bodies? Then who is responsible? And how come some people seem to manage to eat responsibly? Who is supposed to make sure people don't become "Victims" of unhealthy food?
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the guilt is on corporations and politicians !!! don't ever forget it !!! address them if that topic is really that important to you !!! corporations killing people by adding crazy amounts of sugar in their products are to blame !!! politicians not taking actions to change it are to blame !!! politicians not taking actions to give people a livable minimum wage that would give them time and money enough to eat healthier food are to blame !!! the whole society not taking care of people with mental issues like anxiety or depression and blaming them is to blame !!! those are people who are really responsible !!!
Imagine putting free cigarettes on every restaurant table and then be surprised. Why is everyone addicted to smoking? Control yourself! Don't be so weak. They sell unhealthy stuff cheap and when ppl get sick because of it, they can get bankrupt to pay the doctor.
Being healthy is a physical social standard? You mean when you can't walk 10 meters without grasping air, you embrace the body positivity to make it go away? Why don't you wake up instead of telling others not judge. We all are here to comment, why do you even come here and lecture somebody on a comment you don't like? How saying 'ignoring heath' is insulting? Oh btw here is one mixed race person I can't be either black or white. Take it.
Everything isn't black and white but you have hundreds and hundreds of posts where you scream at strangers that they're 'wrong' and 'toxic' when you know almost nothing and read even less.
oh !! you need to try belittling me to feel valuable !! no surprise you agree with that guy. but just avoid lecturing me about reading or doing research. i mentioned several studies and articles that could definitely help you. and once again i at least understood the difference between noticing and addressing the fact that obesity is a problem and an important matter of public health AND the fact that insulting judging belittling obese people is totally useless and plain disgusting. they already know all this !! plus his other thread about embracing toxic masculinity gives a totally different meaning to this one. and being "brutally" honest is not supporting or helping people. it's just being a bully !! that IS toxic. even if his goal was really about awareness and health which i really doubt his method is totally wrong. obese people are people !! they deserve respect and support and that is sad that you need to be reminded that kind of basic social skill
Body positivity is not meant to be about promoting obesity, or accepting that it's normal. Body positivity is about self esteem. So many people obviously just don't get it. Articles like the Cosmo one doesn't help though. Often poor self esteem coincides with mental health issues that also coincides with lack of motivation, emotional eating etc. It's also about teaching people that just because some are obese does not mean they don't deserve to be treated with respect and kindness. We are obese, not stupid so we know what effects it has and health issues. People picking on overweight/obese actually make things worse, not better. Bullying, teasing etc rarely helps anyone. Plus obesity is not always caused by poor diet and lack of exercise. There are many factors to take into account. How about you mind your own damn business since you have no idea what the individual is going through. It's between the individual and their doctor.
I think the best point that was made in this article was the person who pointed out that no one complained about unhealthy body standards when it was underweight people being praised, but now that it's overweight people being praised, everyone's freaking out. I think that neither extreme is healthy, and if you are not at a healthy weight you should work to resolve that issue. Also, praising people who are underweight and praising people who are overweight has happened before. In the Roman Empire, for example, a voluptuous body was viewed as a good thing. It's possible the cycle is repeating itself. On the other end of the spectrum, underweight bodies have been praised up until the body positivity movement. And I completely agree with your point that it might not actually be a person's fault for having an unhealthy weight.
People equate body positive norms that don't shame obesity to norms that encourage people to starve themselves. They are by far not comparable. Nobody is deliberately attempting to become overweight or obese.
A large part of how we retain fat is written in our genetic code. Our DNA also determines whether you feel hungry all the time, or full all of the time. It may not be true for everyone, but it does make you more or less susceptible to overeating. Our hormones also affect our weight. And from an evolutionary standpoint, humans actually evolved to retain fat, which in turn used to extend our longevity and boost our chance of reproducing. A good example of this is actually the show, "The Biggest Loser", which is an interesting choice to cite, but nonetheless is a good example. When we diet, adverse effects include rapid weight gain once we are no longer dieting, because the brain sends signals to the body that we are starving, and in turn, our body generates more fat to balance out the "starvation". So it's not as simple as "someone who sits around and doesn't want to exercise".
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Tons of people complained about 'heroin chic' of the 90's and 'size zero' of the noughties. It's simply not true to say nobody complained.
That is totally true! And there was massive focus on anorexia-related deaths of mainly young women. It seems that fat people make their own truth these days. They even abuse scientific findings about differences in metabolism to claim that being fat is a genetic condition.
It drives me nuts! Why do we think that shame and ridicule will result in anything other than low self-esteem? People with low self-esteem, that hate their bodies, are not the most likely candidates to switch to a healthy lifestyle. They shut down and ignore an issue that they feel they can't control or escape. They feel like they are not worth the effort. A person who is approached with support and positivity will have the foundation they need to make changes in their life. Your size doesn't make you worthy of hate (for your own good) because how convenient to have a justification for abusing someone. Treat people with respect, and they will respect themselves.
You got it! NOBODY has said obesity is ok. BUT it is a problem and obese are not stupid. It is indeed between the individual and their doctor. The "body positivity" is normally used to accept us in all our sizes and shapes and colours .
Sadly people are saying that. When the NHS and Public Health England were accused of "fat shaming" for simply stating potential health effects of obesity, things have gotten ridiculous.
Ryan ... did they address fast foods and soft drinks corporations and politicians not taking actions for public health or did they just blame poor people not able to afford healthy food ?? did they address employers that don't pay enough their employees to give them the possibility of buying healthy food ?? huge hypocrisy from them then !!
Poor people can’t afford healthy food? Rice, pasta etc costs a lot less than a pizza or a chocolate bar, the real problem is education in that people don’t know how to cook they only know how to warm up ready made items
I think the problem is how you're raised to think something is normal and get used to that. I'm raised in Holland. My parents went through the hunger winter in WWII. You get normal bread with cheese for breakfast and lunch and dinner is cooked potatoes with vegetables, a piece of cheese and beans. Very easy to cook. I couldn't even eat all that unhealthy stuff. I don't like it. When I had 50 a week to spend with 3 kids, I just ate some bread with cheese myself. No way I would consider buying some fat cheap unhealthy stuff. It's disgusting. Fries are nice once a week. My kids say they want cooked potatoes with vegetables. We already had fries yesterday. Now it's enough.
@ J Adams : WOW, HORRIBLE choices for your “healthy food” items. They’re effectively the same thing as your “junkfood” examples: simple carbs. Sugars.
Rice is not a simple carb, neither is pasta (information acquired from diabetes uk) athletes carb load by eating……rice and pasta dishes
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I agree: people are saing thay. Is OK to weith 200kg, is OK if you are not able to walk out of your apartament... This od disgusting and dangerus.
Many people say that obesity is OK this days. Fortunately it's not majority of body positivity movement, but it exists and should be adressed. Because it is a medical misinformation. I agree with Foxxy though, it should be between the individual and their doctor (or other health care professional).
word! promoting obesity/ unhealthy lifestyles in general VS promoting body positivity are two different things. An obese person can feel positive about themselves, but they can also be aware of the fact that their weight is not healthy.
Exactly right foxxy, shaming doesn't work. And who are we to judge health just by appearance? The camera is notoriously unreliable at showing an accurate representation of fatness. Especially since we have a biasesd image of health due to underweight models etc being the norm. Barring the dangerously obese what looks 'healthy' to us or fat is between them and their doctor, not us. As for people who say "they're a burden on the healthcare system so I should get a say" no. Apart from the fact I bet fat people often just die other than burden the system, By that logic we should get a say in the health of everyone who has any vice, such as alcohol, a class A carinogen, or who work in the sun or eat charred foods or meat... policing health is a slippery slope.
Yea but the movement has evolved beyond that now. Did you see the Peloton Christmas ad controversy? There were so many body positivity people making a fuss because the ad showed a husband getting his regular, slim wife a Peloton. Body positivity is now like, “No, you don’t need to exercise, be happy with your body!” But they don’t take into account that people might want to get thinner, or need to be thinner to survive. Plus, not all people exercise to lose weight.
For the most part body positivity still has its original meaning-self worth and respect. Just because a few push a different message doesn't mean the entire movement has evolved.
i don't know if you saw it but there is another thread on this guy's twitter called " 7 Reasons You Must Embrace "Toxic Masculinity" " ... it explains a lot his criticism of "body positivity" and says a lot about what kind of person he is !!!
Every single movement has its outliers. For some reason with the body positivity movement people insist on seeing them as representative.
I can't agree with that when you see billboards, magazine ads, and commercials with people who are absolutely obese. Body positivity has gone beyond that.
Often billboards and magazine ads are for some kind of clothing/ underwear advertisement. News flash, obese people wear clothes and underwear too, we have the right to see that brands have made clothes/underwear to fit us. Again it's not about promoting obesity at all. It's like your saying obese people should be hidden from the world. That is the opposite of what body positivity.
So news flash, I know that obese people wear clothes as well. The ads I am referring too will also say "not all shapes are unhealthy" or "this is healthy" or my new favorite "new universal standard". It took me less than 30 seconds to search the ads so why not try to educate yourself a little bit before sounding like you know what you are talking about. I have nothing against a plus size model rocking fashion and showing off styles for other plus sized people. I have a problem when they also say this is healthy.
true
Lol those weren't the complaints I saw about that commercial. It was more because the husband seemed to feel like his wife needed to lose weight, but of course there was no backstory of whether she asked for it as a gift.
Yea but that's the point isn't it. People don't just exercise to lose weight. We don't know. She might love riding bikes, but can't go out, so her husband bought her a Peloton. Or maybe she asked for it.
Tell 'm Foxxy!
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"...obesity is not always caused by poor diet and lack of exercise". Not always no, but in the vast, vast majority of cases?
So..... for whatever reason you can't judge coz you just don't know the individuals reason. So it's best just to mind your bloody business.
in the vast majority of cases ?? it's caused by poverty and people not able to afford healthy food. it's caused by corporation that put way too much fat and sugar in cheap food. it's caused by politicians and governments that allow it because they have personal interest in comforting corporations and no interest in public health !!! stop blaming the victims. look for who really is responsible for that situation
School foods promoted terrible eating habits and diets. Access to healthy options and not to mention and overworked and underpaid population, yeah, the government, work culture, and society are a huge cause of obesity. Our society is set up to run on poor health for "time" and "convenience". America straight up promotes obesity, no question about it. I work for a research hospital, only food options in the food court are fast food. Tired nurses, doctors, admin staff, and patients go to Wendy's or Panda Express because the hospital was paid a lot of money by fast food chains to be the only food options.
Adding to Abhinc's point: This further invalidates the idea that fat people are lazy and sit around all day. In hunter-gatherer societies, people consume and burn the same amount of calories as a person working an office job. But people in hunter-gatherer societies tend to be far leaner and rarely face obesity. This is because of highly processed foods, which are filled with fat, sugar, and cholesterol. So obesity is definitely not due to a lack of exercise.
You do realize that you are only half right. Companies offering cheap unhealthy food that has a higher caloric count per smaller portion is a problem, but the person has to eat a higher amount of food to keep that high caloric intake up. It's problems on both sides.
Sure, but if you put it like this, then the fat person becomes responsible for their own weight, and it seems most people in here want to believe that the fat are merely victims and not responsible at all. Hence, all the BS about "it could be a disease", "corporations/government/politicians are to blame". What happened to the individual freedom and responsibility?
... Also lack of leisure time in which to exercise, and the fact that any exercise involves start-up costs that some people simply can't afford.
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So why does it disproportionately affect the richest countries?
Capitalism.
The VAST majority. The lazy excuse about diseases being responsible has been used since forever, and it's just so lame.
Poor diet and lack of exercise are part of a bigger issue. At some stage it becomes an endocrine/metabolic issue or a mental health issue to be fair. Any which way they deserves compassion and aid. By mental health issues I mean depression, food addiction, social anxiety etc. that comes from feeling bad about yourself.
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Another excuse. Take a look at photos taken in the '70s and '80s and earlier. How many obese people do you see in the crowd scenes? None? Gee, I wonder why?
Aunt Messy you can't compare different generations for a few reasons. 1. The sugar and preservatives are a lot more prevalent now 2. It's often cheaper to buy unhealthy food now than it was back then. Back in those days unhealthy food was a treat coz it was dearer 3. Mental health issues, beauty standards and eating disorders are also a lot more common 4. More people smoked in those days and the fact is smoking did impact weight and 5. Photos weren't taken as often like they are now and weren't plastered all online for the world to see. That's all I can think of for now but I can guarantee you there are more reasons.
Can I add to Foxxy's comment about not comparing different generations - I was on a particular anti-depressant and that affected my thryoid gland and I ended up a size 18! I've been off them for a few years now and am back to a size 12. The one I was taking only became available in the 90s and far more people are on anti-depressants than used to be in the 70s and 80s. Food advice also changed -the fat/carb argument (not getting into the pros and cons here). Finally, the increase in formula being given to babies has had an impact https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2010/sep/30/bottle-feeding-babies-adult-obesity
All you have to do is look at the dinnerware for sale now as compared to what was available in the past. Plates are a minimum two inches bigger in diameter now.
Also, in the 70s and 80s you didn't have both parents working 40-60 hours a week. You got two burnt out people who are so tired and overworked that they go with take-out or fast food options, grab something quick. I have felt for a long time that if the standard is to have all adults working then the work week should be shortened. So a 4 day work week or a 6 hour work day, people need time to spend at home, cook, clean, take care of their kids, and rest. My husband and I have talked about it and when we have kids he is going to stay home with the kids until they are in school so we will have the capacity to take care of ourselves. New goal is to just have us both find 30 hour a week jobs which has become a more probable solution with COVID, he found one and I was going to start looking.
This is so true.
I actually did. So did most normal people. I love the way people are so willing to make excuses that they're willing to lie about basic facts.
Good for you. I am a size 0 myself and managed that while working 60 hours, getting my masters, and caring for my dying father, but I am not so myopic and self absorbed that I can't empathize and understand that the obesity epidemic is an epidemic that did not happen in a vacuum. You have a drastic increase in obesity in a large portion of your population then it pretty clearly shows that there is a systematic social cause. I know everyone just wants to say it is because "kids these days" are worse than the previous generation, but Plato made that argument too and he was also wrong. People are the same as always, society has changed. Sorry you can't wrap your head around that.
maybe because in the 70s and 80s people had no problem in finding a job and so afford food. maybe because back then life was not as stressful as it is today. maybe because there were less mental and social issues among people. maybe because back then food industry itself was not behaving like a drug dealer forcing you to eat way too much sugar without you even knowing it ...
That's a flat out lie. I graduated high school in 1981. In the middle of the worst recession since the 1930s at the time. The best job I could get was waiting tables in a diner for $2.50 an hour.
so ... now that the research was made do you finally understand how toxic and judgemental you are ?? obesity IS a health issue. nobody said it wasn't !!! but obese people are the victims !!! and blaming people for being poor or having mental issues is just extremely dishonest and toxic !!! you are a terrible person and your statements are just sickening !!!
But was the food different? I went to Canada and America. It was absurd, the amount of food you got in a hotel or restaurant. She said: huh? You only want some egg? Saucages, huge amount of scrambled eggs, other meat for breakfast. I'd also get fat if I ate all the stuff they serve you. An overweight guy we were at a restaurant with, said: it's no wonder 90 percent of the population is overweight. You couldn't even eat normal bread in a cafe. Only donuts and fat sweet stuff and huge drinks with free refill.
a lie ?? really ??? what about that : The federal minimum wage of $7.25 is worth $2 less today than it was in 1968 when adjusted for inflation. what is your conclusion ??? another useful information you need obviously : an article written by Larry Elliott for The Guardian in 2020 called "Poverty causes obesity" ... so ??? let me tell you : 1/ that guy doesn't care about public health. he is just a sexist toxic judgemental sicko. his thread called " 7 Reasons You Must Embrace "Toxic Masculinity" " clearly shows it !! 2/ who is responsible for obesity and then who is to blame ??? corporations and politicians !!! laws to decrease the maximum amount of fat and sugar in food maybe ?? taxes to push chains to pay for the consequences of their products ?? totally !!! employers that don't pay enough to give people time enough to cook and enough money to buy healthy food ... the whole system in fact !!! stop blaming the victims !!! another reason that explains obesity ??? mental issues.
And people out of college in 2007 were expected to work for free in unpaid internships for experience. Paying 000s of dollars for rent working all hours. That's something that your generation came up with, along with bank bailouts and more. Your generation has the most disposable income to earnings ratio ever. Your generation climed the wall and pulled the ladder up after you so please stop pontificating about how hard your recession was. You'd swear that you were the only lot ever to have a hard time whilst you blatantly ignore the generations above and below you and refuse to accept that relatively you had it the easiest of all. Cry me a river in the detached house you could buy with one salary.
Honestly, you are just incredibly delusional. The cost of living is far high today, the minimum wage for servers in Georgia is $2.13 as of right now, and the Great Recession was economically worse than the one in the 80s. So pat yourself on the back for living in ignorance and self congratulatory superiority.
Have you ever noticed how many of them were smoking?
Then why do you think obesity is a problem now?
Definately majority. Real Healy problems are reason of 5% of obesity problems.
I had a friend who was curvy, but she went to the gym and she ate well. Yet people still lectured her, berated her and made fun of her because she was still curvy, even her mother told her that she only had a pretty face. Did this help? Did this make her work harder? No. She tried but she eventually gave up because she could see no point in continuing. Body positivity doesn’t mean accepting obesity, it just means loving yourself.
By "curvy", do you actually mean overweight? I'm overweight and I'm not curvy. In fact, I'm shaped like a candied apple.
Thank you SO much, Mike Crow, for stating what I was thinking. Body Positivity DOES relate to self-esteem, which many women and men, don't have much of.
But what is "curvy"? I certainly wouldn't rank either lady in the ads as just "curvy". Based on the photos they are clearly carrying a significant amount of excess body fat that goes beyond having curves. Their are undoubtedly populations with a greater propensity to carrying body fat, but you've still got to eat the excess calories to get there. We're not talking Megan 3 Stallions curves here. These ads feature clinical obesity and says its ok, that's every bit as wrong as telling women that size 0 is what they should aim for. Body confidence, is toxic, rather we should be pushing acceptance, confidence and value pf who we are and striving to be the best version of that we can be. As for the people who berated your friend, they're just A-holes, period.
I may be wrong but I have thought body positivity is about loving yourself no matter how you look. And this self love means that you take care of your mind and body. A person can definitely be slightly overweight or underweight but still healthy. But willingly going beyond that means self destruction and needs to be addressed.
That's indeed how body positivity started out. Love your healthy body despite it's "imperfections". It was a reaction against the magazines telling people to get plastic surgery for no good reason at all. Today it's changed to: "Love your body even when you're unhealthy overweight and you're uncomfortable and miserable not being able to do what you want to do."
"Being uncomfortable and miserable" is not something anyone strives to be just for the sake of being fat. The "love your body" message is being misconstrued, like that Cosmo mag (which NO ONE should be reading anyway) -- but you absolutely should love your body even if you are overweight, because however you got there that weight is not coming off overnight, and we shouldn't be starving ourselves on 500 calorie diets just to make trolls happy. It's up to our doctors to tell us our personal health issues and help us meet our goals, it's not up to bitter old aunts and incels to shame us for something that we could be working to fix for all they know. It was meant as a response to all the verbal abuse, because harassment isn't motivation.
"It's up to our doctors to tell us our personal health issues" Do you rely on someone else to tell you that you're doing something detrimental to yourself? You can't make the decision for yourself that "I'm not really healthy so I'm going to talk with a professional to see what I can do."?
Hi V. Not all weight problems are self inflicted, just so you know. Things like insulin resistance, PCOS, medications etc etc can cause weight issues.
Hm. Do you realise why people are uncomfortable in their own skins? Cause society tells them they are burden, they are worthless. FFS. ALL FAT PEOPLE KNOW THEY CAN DIE YOUNG. All fat people wish they could change. But it's either mental helth, or actual somatic disease (or both) keeping them in place. It's not f*****g trend. Noone wishes to be fat. Noone wishes to be unattractive. Noone wishes to be in health risk. But sometimes you are what you are. I have PCOS. After half year of strict diet and regular trainings, I got nowhere. Not even that, my blood test went worse. Cause I'm damn unlucky and my ovaries f**k up my whole organism. But I'm sure you would be happy, skinny and healthy in my place, cause it's all about not being lazy...
There are trends, statistically speaking. Americans are trending toward obesity. There are causes and we aren’t addressing them. We are barely studying them. Some of it is deeply entrenched culture (employment, dietary, activities, and this “love yourself the way you are” overcompensation). This combines with counter-intuitive and often seemingly conflicting dietary advise (and humanity is still learning; we don’t really know as much as we should). Then there’s the likelihood of environmental pollution screwing up people’s hormones, which none of us can do shite about because we live in a plutocratic oligarchy.
I love my body; overweight as I am, I'm not unhappy or miserable. I eat a healthy diet though I have a lot of restrictions due to IBS. At 49 I look years younger, and I'd never have any plastic surgery even if someone offered it for free
went on twitter to check some few things. wanted to see what kind of man he is to decide what to think about his statement. there is another very informative thread on his account that says a lot about him and gives a totally different perspective to this one : " 7 Reasons You Must Embrace "Toxic Masculinity" " ... do we need to explain any further his real motivations for criticizing body positivity ???
That was very informative thanks. What a jerk
And you show yourself to put more value in "fact" rather than fact. You don't like the truth behind his statement above, effectively that body positivity has turned into a toxic thing, so you dig in so you can find a reason to dismiss this particular statement. You'd rather live your life in your little echo chamber instead. Amazingly enough, truth actually rises above the fray regardless of the person or entity saying the truth. I nor anyone else on this planet has to agree 100% with everything that any person says or does in order to acknowledge an instance of actual truth or correctness. You're effectively dismissing actual truth for no real reason.
@v : It’s not about dismissing the issue as false. It’s about being careful not to think this guy has any real credibility. Douchebags are entirely capable of having a good opinion, but that doesn’t mean we should take advise from them.
What kind of credibility does a person need if they say something that is actually true/truth?
absolutely not !! that guy is toxic. he is just a bully fat shaming obese people. he doesn't care about public health. all i'm saying is obesity is a problem but obese people deserve respect and judging them belittling them insulting them putting them down thinking they are to blame when so many other reasons explain massive obesity in the us is wrong on so many levels !!! that's sad you don't even see it !! and that's scary
Look at your commenting style. You are toxic. You're no better than he is.
I'm not surprised. I expected at least a couple of other dumb posts, considering this one.
Your comment lends itself to two fallacious ways of thinking. 1.) Genetic fallacy:' this point is bad because the person who made the point is bad'. 2.) Argument from fallacy: 'this conclusion isn't true because this person has engaged in fallacy or has underhanded motives'. Better to engage with the actual conclusions than nitpick at the ethics of the person who reached it, no?
@toast : Correct. However, it’s very important to recognize those who DO promote fallacy and who DO have underhanded motives. We can accept that this is a valid take on “body positivity” WHILE ALSO recognizing this guy is a douche.
Certainly, but I think that kind of investigation points to something deeper in this instance. In Abhinc's line, "do we need to explain any further his real motivations for criticizing body positivity?", they imply that this person is criticizing body positivity not for their actual criticisms and points made, but to promote misogyny. If that is the case, it's a way of distancing yourself from your critique without backing it up (much like throwing in "allegedly" or "I heard" without any evidence and then not having to be held accountable for the claim later, even if it paints the person in a negative light) instead of saying "this post supports misogyny because of such and such", which actually would hold some water. Otherwise it just sounds like they can't criticize the actual points, or delineate how these points promote bigotry, and are rather more interested in shutting down the perspective altogether.
Also, after looking into his 'toxic masculinity' twitter thread that was sited as the evidence of his underhanded motives, it's quite literally just milquetoast "men need to provide for their families and protect them" stuff, rather than "modern women are all ugly wh*res" incel type posting.. he's a z-list internet fitness guy, I'm not sure what you'd expect. The actual points are not particularly controversial and likely the sort of thing that the vast majority of Americans would agree with, he just used a hot-button title to get people worked up, essentially clickbait. Combined with Abhinc's emotionally charged accusations of OP bullying and judging obese individuals which is *ENTIRELY* detached from either of the two twitter threads that'd been mentioned or the points included in them, I get the sense that Abhinc actually has an underhanded motive themselves to avoid challenging the critiques of the body+ movement.
I didn’t see that, but I felt it in everything he posts. See my root level comment about his credibility... Thanks for pointing it out. It’s more evidence that my douche-radar is actually working.
What has that to do with this?
seriously ??? do you really need explanations ??? are you that blind ??? let me tell you a story. there is another professional coach some few years ago who decided to gain a lot of weight on purpose. he wanted to know exactly what overweight people go through in order to adapt his programs ans statements etc because he wanted to be useful efficient supportive ... this is the way to deal with that topic !!! the guy we are talking about here is just a self centered arrogant judgemental and toxic sicko !!!
What's so wrong with you saying "Yea, this guy really is an asshole but on this particular topic he's got a point." (the truth is that he does have a valid point on this topic). What he does or says on any other topic doesn't take away from the fact that he has a valid point here. Go live in your echo chamber. In a few years you'll be seeing the same sentiment he stated here coming from your own and you'll embrace it as ABSOLUTE TRUTH!.
@v : he does have a valid point here, but we need to fuel the discussion from a better source than this guy.
your attitude explains why you support him. you are the same kind of arrogant and judgemental person. context changes everything. his other threads explain who he is and invalidates the fact he really cares about public health. but let's admit he does !! his method is totally wrong no matter what you pretend
Your context is that you attack militantly. I'll take the right to dismiss everything you say because of your militant commenting style. You may very well have some very good and valid things to say but your context is all wrong.
In both that thread and this one he's telling people to take responsibility for themselves. What is it about that that has you so angry?
i'm angry because i just can't stand people like you that are toxic and judge victims !!! poverty and mental issues like depression or anxiety are the main causes of obesity. not laziness or whatever criticism you invent !!!
Lack of exercise, diet and genetics are all greater causes for obesity than mental illness, or the drugs used to treat them.
@R L : cite your sources. I started my path toward excessive body fat ENTIRELY because of psych drugs I was coerced onto in late 2004. I literally ate a box of cookies in my sleep before I realized what was happening and got off the drug that was messing with my carbohydrate metabolization. There are SO MANY PROBLEMS with long-term psych drug usage and inability to control body weight is a major issue (the primary issue though is physiological addiction; it creates the illusion of “relapsing” when trying to not be dependent on pharmaceutical products - made much worse by people’s issues never being addressed and only throwing drugs at them, and telling them they were just born broken).
How does blaming others make you lose weight? I mean I get and totally agree it was easier to stay in shape when there wasn't a McDonalds on every corner, but they're not going away and government can't help with that.
You made the statement. Show us the facts that laziness isn't one of the main causes of obesity. It's on you, not us, to prove your statement of "fact".
i mentioned several studies and articles ... read them before you try to lecture me but i'll give you one information. i live in france. here we have additional taxes on sugary drinks we have laws saying what can be the maximum amount of sugar that can be added to soft drinks. and so on ... we have 3 or 4 times less obese people than the US. is that a coincidence ? i don't think so
you want people to take responsibilities for their actions ??? blame fast food and soft drinks corporation that behave like drug dealers by putting crazy amount of sugar in their products and politicians that don't take actions !!! blame employers that don't pay enough to give their employees time and money enough to eat healthier !!! the whole system is guilty !!! not obese people
Blame fast food and soft drink companies? Why? Are they holding a person to a life or death choice of using their respective products as sole sustenance? Guess what? The canned vegetables at the grocery store, while possibly less nutritious than their fresh counter part, are VASTLY more nutritious than fast food and VASTLY less expensive than fast food when fast food is used as sole source sustenance. For myself I can make a breakfast, for about one hour worth of effort on one day, scramble of frozen diced potatoes, bacon, eggs, half an onion and one bell pepper that gives me a filling breakfast for all 7 days of the week for a cost of right around $2 per serving. The same at a fast food place would cost at least twice as much per serving. Laziness extends past the aspect of exercise. Laziness encompasses the lack of willingness to actually do things that would save a person money AND allow them to have so much more control of what they are putting in their body.
what about the non stop increasing size of portions ?? and the non stop increasing amount of sugar added everywhere ? in europe with the normal portion for one person in the US you could feed 3 persons. that is insane and there is something really wrong that you should addres instead of shaming and insulting obese people. other things that "encompass the lack of willingness to actually do things that would save a person money AND allow them to have so much more control of what they are putting in their body." lack of self esteem depression anxiety and so on !! and that guy puts down people who already lack self esteem. he is a bully !!
That is such a lame excuse. "The system is guilty", not the fat ones. Does the system shove food down their throats?
When I was in younger I was bullied and made fun of so much for my weight I did whatever I could to not have to go to school. I even developed this psycho-somatic cough that was a loud bark - loud and constant and it meant I could stay home. This went on for 5 years. My mom finally got me into therapy and I switched schools. It got better. If social media had been around during this time, I can 100% tell you I would’ve killed myself (the bullying wouldn’t have been limited to just at school). Why am I telling you this? Because if I had someone tell me it was ok to just be me and I saw examples in the media of people like me in the fun clothes, maybe I wouldn’t have lost 5 years of my life. I am the type of person this movement is for.
Yes, it does. Have you heard of food deserts? They're a huge problem and people literally don't have healthy options, or all the healthy stuff is crazy expensive. Also, fresh food is just generally more expensive and time consuming to prepare, so the people more inclined to get unhealthy instant meals are the ones who are overworked and underpaid. Shame on you for your lack of empathy, as if you, a person saying mean things on the internet, are morally superior to hardworking and underappreciated people who are fat.
Why does it always have to be fresh food? Are the canned vegetables not more nutritious than fast food AND less expensive than fresh? Is it honestly not possible to make a nutritious meal based on readily available pre-processed (canned veggies, cheap cuts of meat, etc..) for a lower cost than fast food on a per serving basis? People are more inclined to get unhealthy instant meals because they find it easier to claim "it's too expensive" when compared to them taking the time to learn how to and the time needed to prepare the meal. The individual subsisting on fast food will easily spend somewhere between $10 and $30 per day on fast food ($70-$210 per week). Take the effort to imagine how much nutritious, though unprepared, food this same amount of money could buy. I've done it and continue to do so. So many times I'd rather have the local fast food combo breakfast but I chose not to spend $5 or so for breakfast when I can have a good breakfast for half the cost.
@Konpat : Culture (what people are raised to believe and what is marketed to them aggressively) and access (availability and finances) have a MASSIVE impact on what you think is free will.
the only lame thing i see here is your comment !! read the articles i mentioned. do some research about the sugar industry lobbying scandals !! looks like you need it. your judgemental toxic statement is sickening !! poverty and mental issues ARE the main reasons why people are obese. the lack of political actions and the crazy amount of sugar corporations put in everything is evil !! let me tell you something !! i'm french. here we have laws about the maximum amount of sugar that can be added in soft drinks. soft drinks corporations pay additional taxes. etc etc ... we have 3 or 4 times less obese people than the US ... coincidence ?? i don't think so !!
Everything!! about what you are saying!! is nothing!! more than you deflecting!! responsibility from the individual!! to some other!! outside entity!! do you really?? understand?? that you're losing ground far faster than you're gaining it?? i don't think so!!
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Whether you like the person or not, if their message is correct than it's correct. This is why we have so much vaccine misinformation. How you feel about Fauci or scientists talking about the facts doesn't stop his topics being facts. You don't want to listen to truth because you don't like him as a person, pretty narrow minded and one sided imo. Try opening your mind and growing a little.
fact is his message is not correct !!! he is just a toxic sexist judgemental sicko !!! blaming victims is a terrible way of addressing a problem. POVERTY causes obesity !!! MENTAL HEALTH causes obesity. the whole society then is to blame !!! not obese people
Prove your statement of "fact". I lived about half of my life at the upper end of the poverty line yet I'm not obese. There are so many others who have lived their lives at the upper end all the way down to the bottom of poverty that aren't obese. You've no actual argument to make so now your pulling s**t out of your ass.
@v : Please read about survivorship bias.
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good !! my actual arguments are mentioned in articles and studies i gave you the opportunity of reading. if you prefer avoiding information to keep up with your judgemental toxic opinionated narrow minded arrogant attitude good for you but that comment says much more about you than it affects me. since you need to try insulting me instead of being able to give actual arguments based on informative thoughts ... guess who is pulling s### out of their ass ? don't lecture someone when you don't even succeed in being who you ask other to be
Look at you telling others not to lecture. Maybe you should have stopped while you were ahead?
Keep using lots of exclamation marks and referring to third party litterature without actually stating any arguments and lecturing while claiming you don't lecture. What are you, 12?
third party litterature ?? articles from the NY times or the Washington Post ? seriously. oh btw. trying to insult or belittle someone shows you just have zero point to base your argumentation on. oh and i just read in another BP article about insecurity "focusing on grammar" instead of focusing on what is said ... does it ring a bell Konpat ?
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how can you compare that guy to Fauci ??? just avoid lecturing people or belittling anybody !!! that just proves you have not factual point and are unable to argue. on a medical level yes !!! obesity is a health issue. all i'm saying is obese people are the victims of a system and victim shaming is extremely coward and dishonest and soooo toxic !!! i'm sure he is the kind of guy that could say about a raped woman she should have dressed differently and this is sickening !!! you call me narrow minded when you refuse to see his real motivations ?? put this thread in context. it DOES give it a totally different meaning.
Way to now put words in someone's mouth saying he is insulting women on the topic of rape, that's just crazy. I find it funny how you tell me not to lecture but half of your comments I read is telling people what to do or think....hmm sounds like a lecture to me! Maybe take your own advice?
don't you see a difference between addressing the fact that obesity IS a matter of public health and shaming obese people ? i find it extremely sad and disappointing that people need to be reminded they have to be respectful to others !! obesity is a much bigger and more complex problem than pretending obese people are stupid and lazy ! but if you think putting people down will help them i'll say it again ! you are toxic !!
Yeah I guess I will have to say it one more time for you to hopefully get it..."stop putting words in other people's mouths!" I never once said that obese people are stupid or lazy and I never said we need to put them down. I said (I hope you retain this) that ads glorifying obese body shapes with words like "this is healthy" or "this is fit" are wrong and do more damage than good. Obesity is a huge problem and is very complex from the food available for people, socioeconomic issues, race, and even gender. What you are saying is we should tell them they are healthy and move on and I say no. You can be honest about weight without shoving it in someone's face, you might not know how to do that but it's possible. Honestly I'm done arguing with you, be better.
You're calling people out on their ability to argue? What world do you live in in which you're a shining example of the ability to argue?
Avoid the problem and it'll go away. An absolutely fantastic way to make your way through life.
Yes!! to your first two sentences. Have fun and be happy with however you look in a swimsuit or whatever defect is visible, and look at others with the same respect - they are people, no matter what skin they are in. But overweight and underweight are medical terms. Doctors and researchers have said that these are not OK. These go outside of an acceptable range which puts people at higher risk of diseases and behaviors which are not 'living your best life.' I am of the mind that I genuinely do not care what you look like and how you decide to dress, but cognizant that being overweight does affect you, as well as the people around you and the people in your society. That being said, shaming individuals is not helpful. This is a problem of society and people need to be taught that they are victims of industry; Cheap food is a trap, cheese is not healthy, burgers and soda should not be at every meal, fruit juice and sweet tea with the same sugar is not a healthy alternative to soda, etc.
Honestly, whoever does not know those things about crappy food has to be a wilfully ignorant person. This knowledge is everywhere, you don't even need to be that well educated to know that. Let people take at least some part of the responsibility for their own health!
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honestly whoever pretends obese people are just lazy and stupid is a wilfully toxic person. the problem is much bigger and deeper than that. you shouldn't need to be reminded about respect.
So mind positivity would be "love yourself no matter what how you think"? Some mindsets are just wrong, so are some bodies. We are talking about massive obesity with a BMI way beyond 40 and not the muscular type. If you are in that area you have either an eating problem or an illness causing that weight. Both need to treated.
Why is morbidly obese always dismissed as some form of medical problem? Why is it so difficult to admit that some people are morbidly obese simply because they don't care?
@v : ... because it’s a dehumanizing, victim-blaming, uninformed, antipathetic, monstrous assumption. THAT’S why.
and if they don't care about their health and body that's because they have no self esteem and this is some kind of suicidal behavior which is a mental issue ... being that manichean and judgemental is so wrong and so stupid !! and insulting them putting them down belittling them is clearly not gonna help !! you don"t need to be brutally honest. this is just being a bully !! obese people are people and deserve respect. this doesn't mean obesity can't be addressed. these are 2 very different things !! and being unhealthy when you're obese ? i guess they already know. support them and help them instead of destroying them even more. you are toxic and the fact you don't even realize it is scary and sickening.
You're not wrong. This guy doesn't understand body positivity. And I wouldn't even consider myself a member of the body positive "community" if we can call it that. But I don't think being cruel to someone over their weight has ever helped them.
That's the thing people aren't being cruel when they're saying someone is unhealthy. But that's what people do they twisted into shaming and being negative and nasty when they're not. That's the man's point.
And that's how it got going, then they turned the amp up to 11 and extol the virtue of being obese.
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It really isn't. "Body positivity" is the way people justify deliberately ignoring their health. People would rather commit slow suicide than take care of themselves.
you are wrong !!! body positivity is for people who don't want or can't keep up with physical social standards. like for instance if you have a few pounds more than people think you should, you can still be very healthy and happy and have a normal life !! it's not only for very morbid obese people. everything is not all black or white. stop being so narrow minded !! and in any case ... who do you think you are to pretend you can judge people that are not like you ?? and if you really think those people are wrong and need help are you sure insulting them belittling them judging them putting them down will give any kind of positive result ?? take a few minutes to think about your words and attitude !!!
You should as talk your own advice. You are saying it's good to tell people who are hurting themselves that it's healthy...how sick can you get. "Hey good job over eating and being tired walking up one flight of stairs, don't worry you are healthy!!" How about instead leave people alone but if they ask about their health you tell the truth and stop lying to people. Just sad.
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nobody ever said that !!! overeating IS hurting yourself. obesity IS a health issue that needs to be addressed !!! body positivity is just a way to remind people that respect is a basic social skill that can't be forgotten. do you really think obese people need to hear it's not healthy ?? they know !!! do you really think blaming and shaming them is gonna help ?? NO !!! and once again they are victims of a system !!! they need help respect and support. they don't deserve to be blamed or shamed.
You talk about "Them", the obese, as if they're too stupid to make their own healthy decisions. Victims. Really, you seriously mean that they cannot be made responsible for their own eating habits and bodies? Then who is responsible? And how come some people seem to manage to eat responsibly? Who is supposed to make sure people don't become "Victims" of unhealthy food?
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the guilt is on corporations and politicians !!! don't ever forget it !!! address them if that topic is really that important to you !!! corporations killing people by adding crazy amounts of sugar in their products are to blame !!! politicians not taking actions to change it are to blame !!! politicians not taking actions to give people a livable minimum wage that would give them time and money enough to eat healthier food are to blame !!! the whole society not taking care of people with mental issues like anxiety or depression and blaming them is to blame !!! those are people who are really responsible !!!
Imagine putting free cigarettes on every restaurant table and then be surprised. Why is everyone addicted to smoking? Control yourself! Don't be so weak. They sell unhealthy stuff cheap and when ppl get sick because of it, they can get bankrupt to pay the doctor.
Being healthy is a physical social standard? You mean when you can't walk 10 meters without grasping air, you embrace the body positivity to make it go away? Why don't you wake up instead of telling others not judge. We all are here to comment, why do you even come here and lecture somebody on a comment you don't like? How saying 'ignoring heath' is insulting? Oh btw here is one mixed race person I can't be either black or white. Take it.
Everything isn't black and white but you have hundreds and hundreds of posts where you scream at strangers that they're 'wrong' and 'toxic' when you know almost nothing and read even less.
oh !! you need to try belittling me to feel valuable !! no surprise you agree with that guy. but just avoid lecturing me about reading or doing research. i mentioned several studies and articles that could definitely help you. and once again i at least understood the difference between noticing and addressing the fact that obesity is a problem and an important matter of public health AND the fact that insulting judging belittling obese people is totally useless and plain disgusting. they already know all this !! plus his other thread about embracing toxic masculinity gives a totally different meaning to this one. and being "brutally" honest is not supporting or helping people. it's just being a bully !! that IS toxic. even if his goal was really about awareness and health which i really doubt his method is totally wrong. obese people are people !! they deserve respect and support and that is sad that you need to be reminded that kind of basic social skill
Body positivity is not meant to be about promoting obesity, or accepting that it's normal. Body positivity is about self esteem. So many people obviously just don't get it. Articles like the Cosmo one doesn't help though. Often poor self esteem coincides with mental health issues that also coincides with lack of motivation, emotional eating etc. It's also about teaching people that just because some are obese does not mean they don't deserve to be treated with respect and kindness. We are obese, not stupid so we know what effects it has and health issues. People picking on overweight/obese actually make things worse, not better. Bullying, teasing etc rarely helps anyone. Plus obesity is not always caused by poor diet and lack of exercise. There are many factors to take into account. How about you mind your own damn business since you have no idea what the individual is going through. It's between the individual and their doctor.
I think the best point that was made in this article was the person who pointed out that no one complained about unhealthy body standards when it was underweight people being praised, but now that it's overweight people being praised, everyone's freaking out. I think that neither extreme is healthy, and if you are not at a healthy weight you should work to resolve that issue. Also, praising people who are underweight and praising people who are overweight has happened before. In the Roman Empire, for example, a voluptuous body was viewed as a good thing. It's possible the cycle is repeating itself. On the other end of the spectrum, underweight bodies have been praised up until the body positivity movement. And I completely agree with your point that it might not actually be a person's fault for having an unhealthy weight.
People equate body positive norms that don't shame obesity to norms that encourage people to starve themselves. They are by far not comparable. Nobody is deliberately attempting to become overweight or obese.
A large part of how we retain fat is written in our genetic code. Our DNA also determines whether you feel hungry all the time, or full all of the time. It may not be true for everyone, but it does make you more or less susceptible to overeating. Our hormones also affect our weight. And from an evolutionary standpoint, humans actually evolved to retain fat, which in turn used to extend our longevity and boost our chance of reproducing. A good example of this is actually the show, "The Biggest Loser", which is an interesting choice to cite, but nonetheless is a good example. When we diet, adverse effects include rapid weight gain once we are no longer dieting, because the brain sends signals to the body that we are starving, and in turn, our body generates more fat to balance out the "starvation". So it's not as simple as "someone who sits around and doesn't want to exercise".
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Tons of people complained about 'heroin chic' of the 90's and 'size zero' of the noughties. It's simply not true to say nobody complained.
That is totally true! And there was massive focus on anorexia-related deaths of mainly young women. It seems that fat people make their own truth these days. They even abuse scientific findings about differences in metabolism to claim that being fat is a genetic condition.
It drives me nuts! Why do we think that shame and ridicule will result in anything other than low self-esteem? People with low self-esteem, that hate their bodies, are not the most likely candidates to switch to a healthy lifestyle. They shut down and ignore an issue that they feel they can't control or escape. They feel like they are not worth the effort. A person who is approached with support and positivity will have the foundation they need to make changes in their life. Your size doesn't make you worthy of hate (for your own good) because how convenient to have a justification for abusing someone. Treat people with respect, and they will respect themselves.
You got it! NOBODY has said obesity is ok. BUT it is a problem and obese are not stupid. It is indeed between the individual and their doctor. The "body positivity" is normally used to accept us in all our sizes and shapes and colours .
Sadly people are saying that. When the NHS and Public Health England were accused of "fat shaming" for simply stating potential health effects of obesity, things have gotten ridiculous.
Ryan ... did they address fast foods and soft drinks corporations and politicians not taking actions for public health or did they just blame poor people not able to afford healthy food ?? did they address employers that don't pay enough their employees to give them the possibility of buying healthy food ?? huge hypocrisy from them then !!
Poor people can’t afford healthy food? Rice, pasta etc costs a lot less than a pizza or a chocolate bar, the real problem is education in that people don’t know how to cook they only know how to warm up ready made items