Company Threatens To Fire Employee If She Continues To Ignore Team Gatherings After Work, Sparks Debate On Work Culture
Some employees want to draw a clear distinction between their work and free time. TikTok user Sarah, who goes on the platform as @moodynomad333 is one of these people. But her views got her in big trouble at the last company she worked for.
In a now-viral video, the woman detailed her experience of working in the marketing department of an architecture firm. She focused on keeping strictly professional relationships with her co-workers.
“All the architects and designers would hang out, and I didn’t want to hang out with them because we didn’t have anything in common. Plus, they were all friends from school or from doing the same job, and I was just an outsider,” she said.
However, the higher-ups didn’t like this. In fact, their view of how the office should operate was so different from Sarah’s that, eventually, they issued an ultimatum: either socialize with your co-workers or get fired.
Seeing it as an impossible lose-lose choice, Sarah simply packed her things and resigned.
A TikToker says she recently received an ultimatum at work to either socialize with her co-workers or be fired
Image credits: fauxels (not the actual photo)
So she quit
Image credits: moodynomad333
Image credits: moodynomad333
Her video went viral, having been viewed more than 775K times
@moodynomad333 #stitch with @Emily The Recruiter ♬ original sound – sarah
This is a very nuanced topic. Many business advisors think it’s actually in the best interest of both the company and its employees that they get familiar with one another. For example, according to Scott Ford, President of California Builder Services, a single-source consulting firm specializing in DRE Reports, HOA Budgets, and Reserve Studies, before 2020, questions such as, “What did you do this weekend?” and other small talk helped us learn more about our colleagues while we waited for our first cup of coffee to brew or gathered before a meeting. “From trivial topics to silly banter, these non-work discussions helped many of us feel bonded and connected with our colleagues throughout the workplace,” he wrote in Forbes.
But since the pandemic, small talk has also migrated to email and various communication platforms.
However, Ford believes leaders must put forth the extra effort to ensure staff relationships retain the spontaneity and free flow of in-person interactions as much as possible. “From my perspective, allowing staff time to chat with one another and/or organizing opportunities for after-hour connections can result in a happier, more collaborative team,” he said.
And supporters of this view have research to back it up. Turns out, small talk plays a significant role in our productivity at work. Last year, the Academy of Management found that casual banter in the office can be uplifting.
“I find it can also foster a sense of connection among co-workers,” Ford added. “These connections are essential to effective teamwork and can help build loyalty with the company and peers.”
And has started a heated discussion on work relationships
However, just how much management should get involved in promoting employee socialization is debatable.
Russell F. Korte, a professor of human resource education in the College of Education at Illinois, thinks that rather than placing the onus of assimilating to a new work environment on the new hire, it’s their co-workers who should bring the newcomer on board and ease their transition to the team.
“There’s a huge burden on the workgroup for the socialization and ultimate success of the new hire,” Korte said.
“Everybody thinks it’s the responsibility of the new person to fit in when it’s actually a mutually-constituted relationship between the workgroup and the new hire.”
Korte’s study, published in recent issues of the journals Human Resource Development International and Human Resource Development Quarterly, comprised in-depth interviews with members of the engineering workforce, including managers, of a large multinational manufacturing company.
Korte discovered that co-workers exert far more influence on a new hire’s socialization in an organization than previously thought: About 65 percent of what employees learn comes from their co-workers, while just 15 percent comes from interactions with managers.
“Co-workers are major players in socializing a new employee,” he explained. “I think it’s important that managers realize the power that the workgroup has to make or break the new hire coming in because if people have bad experiences, they’ll likely leave.”
Which is exactly what happened in Sarah’s case. Thankfully, it looks like she isn’t double-questioning her decision and maintains a positive attitude.
Its creator, Sarah, provided more info on her situation in a follow-up video
Image credits: moodynomad333
Image credits: moodynomad333
That also received plenty of attention
@moodynomad333 Replying to @MRD ♬ original sound – sarah
Sarah also pointed out the difference in office standards that men and women are held to
@moodynomad333 Replying to @slaytanic ♬ original sound – sarah
Many supported her opinions
But some stressed that socializing is a big part of work culture
Uhhhh I hate this sort of thing where you have to fit a role on a personal level as well as professional. I got a verbal warning for not smiling enough in a non customer facing role, where my manager could only see my face when I was at my computer. I quit a week later.
Yeah, that smiling because other people think you should has to be one of the most irritating things ever. Lots of people think it's horrible for a man to yell that to a woman while she's walking down the street; but it's perfectly acceptable to say it to her day after day at work.
Load More Replies...
Skipping "happy hours" is fine, especially if they occur rather often. But dashing in with headphones on not even saying hello and howdy is just rude. And I say this as someone who hates small talk.
You need to reread the entire article. Yes she takes her headphones in. However she also takes notice of who she passes, acknowledging them and saying hello. She simply doesn't stop to chit chat.
Load More Replies...
Bottom line, threatening to fire somebody because they don't socialise if just horrific. I can't blame her for quitting or going to tribunal (if she lives somewhere you have employment rights). Personally I don't mind if people don't want to socialise outside work. Your time is your own, as are your reasons for not socialising. Saying that, marketing is one of those professions where a bit of socialising comes with the territory. I would never suggest having a personal "no work socialising" rule. It's quite presumptive about your colleagues as individuals and you do gain insights into them and their work. You might even find you've actually got things in common with them. Equally if you've tried it and they're awful, there's no shame in not socialising with them.
I feel like marketing is just a really terrible industry to go into if you hate socialising and are an introvert
Load More Replies...
“Ugnè Ragauskaité - It makes sense why people need to socialise. If others cannot feel comfortable with you then it will effect communication during the work time” Bull. If you can’t effectively communicate with your coworkers without them being your friend, you’re unprofessional and immature. Adam Savage and Jamie Hyneman supported the massively successful television series Mythbusters for 14 years and never once even had dinner together outside of work. As a musician, one of the best working relationships I ever had was with a drummer with whom I had nothing in common. We were fans of each other’s work and always friendly to each other, but outside of practice and gigs we never saw each other. I’m still friends with the guitarist from that project 25 years later, and I love him, but it’s unnecessary for working relationships as long as you’re courteous, respectful and professional.
Penn and Teller are famously not friends. They're partners. They've been wildly successful for decades together. They collaborate beautifully. They don't go hang out together. There's no need for that to get things done.
Load More Replies...
I HATE small talk. When I worked at an office I'd bite the bullet would be as nice and polite as possible and talked to everyone, to the cleaners and temps to the MD and CEO. But when my work hours were done I'd run a mile and would indeed turn around or cross the road to avoid any co-worker and I'd set myself on fire before attending any office party or after work drinks. Being friendly doesn't mean being friends.
If I say hello to someone, it is going to dim my opinion of them considerably if they don't say hi back. If nothing else.
Load More Replies...
I dont socialise with people I work with. This is a rule I set for myself years ago. Where I work the people are too involved in each others business and often spread gossip and back stab each other when one is not around. Its like being in high school.
The gossip and backstabbing is always what these "team building" exercises turn into. And those high school social dynamics apply in full; if you don't participate in the bullying, you become the one getting bullied. They assume that everyone engages in the same toxic behavior they do, therefore if you aren't there to s**t-talk with them, then you must be elsewhere s**t-talking about them, and they're not going to let you get the better of them! Companies only enable this because narcissists with fragile egos tend to make excellent salespeople.
Load More Replies...
I couldn't give a rats a*s about what my co-workers did or are doing.
To me it should come down to what you were hired for. Are you performing all of the job requirements as outlined in your job description and contract? If so they can go fly a kite. If socializing was part of your job description and your not doing that... you may need to think about a different job.
LEGALLY, you can not be required to socialize outside of office hours. Period. You can not be told what you can or can not, have to, or do not have to, do when you are off the clock. IF it is in your contract to socialize outside of office hours, they have to pay you for the hours you socialize, because you are legally on company time.
I get along fine with all the people I have to work with, but I do not socialize with any of them outside of work.
I've been at my job for nearly 20 years. I haven't been to a Christmas party or office gathering since at least 2015. I used to go to those but didn't see any point in wasting a date night out with my wife listening to c**p music and watching people get drunk. I stopped coming, they don't bother me about it. I'll decide when, where, and with whom I want to hang out and no employer is going to tell me otherwise. If they tried with me what they tried with the OP their asses would be hit with a serious attack of paper from my lawyer. Trying to coerce someone into after-hours partying is NOT legal. Period.
Every job is not for everyone. I once worked at a canvassing job. Before we were set on our routes there would be this motivational meeting. I hate emoting fake emotions but I tried to show some enthusiasm. The manager said I needed to be more enthusiastic and energetic during the meetings. I really didn't feel comfortable hollering really loudly, jumping, cheering. I lasted a week and then quit before they fired me.
Ok... but the difference is that the job in the article (or whatever this is... post?) Did not require this woman to socialize by going to get drunk with coworkers she wasn't friends with after work in order to perform it successfully... that was an unreasonable expectation by her bosses. The article isn't talking about how it sucks having to socialize with people in a sales gig... it's talking about how they were goijg to be fired for not socializing in a marketing team role that was not customer facing and mainly involves data analysis/writing. Ie. Analyzing spreadsheets, interpreting data, writing conclusions/other insights. It's a different situation.
Load More Replies...
People are social beings. A somwhat friendly base of communication can be expected, more so if you work in small teams with a shared goal (like sales reps, medical advisors, marketing groups and such). That being said, outside of conventions, congresses or comparable situations I work 9 to five and I do not participate in after-work-gatherings. I have a full(filling) private life and my work/life balance is the most important thing to me. I don't get paid? Don't expect me to show up (with above mentioned exceptions, but then I will get free meals and drinks, so I get "paid").
Not all people are social. There are personal/diagnosed reasons for not being social and no one should be forced into socializing.
Load More Replies...
I'm glad I don't live in the US. This is a US thing. I worked full time, was raising 3 children with next to no help from my ex, and if I had to stay after work for extra "social" time, I'd have had to quit, too. I had 3 kids who wanted supper, and I'm supposed to stay at work and drink and socialize? I don't bloody think so!
It's hilarious that y'all just....KNOW what country is pulling this. A gross exploitation of the workforce that half the country is defending? Must be the Americans.
Load More Replies...
I dislike this forced office culture as family on the outside. I saw the relative who picked up drinking again to Fit In, who had to work weekends doing nothing To Look Determined after finishing their expected work during the week, who Had To leave early and stay late to look like they did the work they already did. I get that this type of job isnt for me but im not certain it is for anyone with kids or medical issues or not claiming to be a Type A personality either
Companies who value presenteeism over actual productivity deserve to fail.
Load More Replies...
I get along fine with most of my co-workers, but I don't consider any of them my friends. I'd never go out of my way to hang out with them after work. I worked a previous job that I climbed the ladder to be in managerial position. The owner liked to throw stupid Christmas parties after work hours and they were always a 90 minute drive. I never went because of the drive, and because again I didn't consider consider my workers friends. Why would I want to hang out with a bunch of people that aren't my friends? He got mad at my non-attendance and questioned me. I asked if he was paying for my gas there and back and for my time? He of course said no because he's paying for the event. I said I would never attend then because the event wasn't keeping my bills paid.
I've gone to and indirectly observed enough of these "team building happy hour" gatherings to know that they are not so much about "team building" as they are "other bashing". Everyone just s**t-talks about something/someone they mutually dislike and have a laugh about it. This can build camaraderie when coworkers air grievances about particularly difficult customers, a vendor who imposed a delay, etc. However, if these gatherings are frequent and you don't attend, then you become a part of that "other" that they bash; they will exaggerate characteristics about you and valance them negatively, invent unflattering narratives for why you don't participate (ex. "they think they're better than us!"), and beat you down to build themselves up. If extrovert salespeople can only manage their mental health by engaging in a collective petty trash-talking purge, then fine; that's their free time. But no one should have their career suffer for refusing to engage in the psychoses of adult children.
I'm just thinking about the time I tried to socialize and I learned my co-worker is an anti-vaxxer. I see them as subhuman public health terrorists so turns out socializing was a bad thing. I did my best to avoid that person afterwards. If you want to talk to me about video games or something cool. Otherwise leave me alone unless it's work related. I've been loving remote work as the only co-worker I have to see in person is my wife.
I would regularly avoid socializing outside work hours with my colleagues unless top boss was insisting on corporate dinner which was about once a year. Anyway after much harrassment by a particular colleague (A) I decided to go out with a bunch of them one night. After I left later that night things got steamy between "A" and another a chick from depot "B" , both were very drunk. On the Monday all hell broke loose in office, "A" was being sexually harrassed at work by "B". And B was subsequently stood down without pay for a few weeks. B had barely crossed paths with A except at club. It later turned out that B wasnt interested in A and A wasnt happy about it and because B refused to discuss it at work or acknowledge her on the Monday morning, A decided to cause problems with B. They both tried to get me involved cause I had been at club earlier. This is why I dont socialize with colleagues outside of work because I ain't got time for dramas that spill over into office and workplace.
Some people think gossiping IS small talk. Never had a job where that didn't happen.
Load More Replies...
I have flashbacks of Marshawn Lynch and how the Commissioner of Football kept demanding that he give after the game interviews with reporters. I kept thinking "Leave the man alone and let him do his job...playing football." Why is it a requirement to be social. Plus, I've gotten mixed messages from places I've worked. The 'Mind Your Own Business' to 'Why Aren't You More Social?' I hate small talk because it will sometime melt into topics I don't care to discuss. You want to talk about the job or about things going on in your life...fine. But if you want to gossip or stand on a soap box to present your political/religious views...I have better ways to spend my time.
Marshawn Lynch is a completely different things than here. In the NFL you are contractually obligated to give media interviews. If you don't want to meet your obligations then you have to face the consequences. The poster here had no such contractual obligation, just a rude demand.
Load More Replies...
This is BS. Hanging out after hours with colleagues is BS. It benefits YOU in no way what so ever. All it does is waste YOUR time and YOUR money, both of which we don't have to spare. Say you do this and *bond* with all of your colleagues, including your boss, then some emergency occurs. Do you expect your boss to say, "Oh, how awful! Well, I know corporate policy is this but since we've *bonded* I'm going to break policy and do this..."? Heck, no! The company and profits will always come first, so all this will do is foster a sense of betrayal. Not to mention this encourages cliques, remember those from school? Why the heck would you want to go back to that? No you clock out, you go home and get on with your life. You don't LIVE to WORK, you WORK to LIVE.
Everyone is debating this as a social issue, but it's a very cut and dry legal one: if she is REQUIRED to attend functions after work for her job, then she should be compensated for that time. Threatening someone's job because they decline your social invites is moronic and should really be illegal as retaliation. Any well reasoned person would just stop inviting someone they know is going to decline.
Oh, so the punishment will continue until the morale improves? If these "happy hours" are compulsory, as apparently they are since the threat, they are work hours and i expect to get paid, and at the overtime rate.
marketing is salary normally not hourly. rules like that don't apply
Load More Replies...
People who complain about others not socializing should GET BACK TO WORK AND STOP TALKING. Introverts usually can see the fakeness in office socialization...and we often get a hell of a lot more done than always chit chatting about nonsense and your weekend habits for which I give absolutely zero f***s!
Maybe having her quit was the whole idea behind the ultimatum. She wasn't liked and she didn't like them. They won.
Win-Win, if that's the case, who wants to work with people that petty. Hope she finds somewhere less toxic.
Load More Replies... I'm 66 yes old and when I go to work I go TO WORK. You make friends when you want. My work is my survival for INCOME not for making friends, but if it happens awesome, but should happen naturally and NOT forced. Look at it this way, it's the same reasons you shouldn't work with family (again a choice, my choice not my employer). Please stay in your lane. You can't force LOVE, but you can't force SOCIALIZING as well. Have a great day all. 😀
I'm with her FTS! I am not your friend, leave me alone to do my job. I do not want to talk to you, I don't want to get to know you. Keep your drama garbage to yourself.
A person should never be forced to be social with their fellow employees. It's called WORK for a reason! Being polite and professional at the office is enough. A lot of fantastic employees like to keep their private and professional life separate, and there is nothing wrong with that. There's actually a lot of benefits to that. One is less office gossip and drama. Sometimes even the most anti-social person can become more social...but it works best if it happens naturally over time and isn't forced. It seems more and more it is hard to find dedicated, efficient employees. Employers should appreciate the ones who are and not force them to do things against their nature that have nothing to do with their job description.
My current job proves your point. When I started, I didn't want to talk to ANYONE about anything not related to work. Six months in, and now I feel comfortable enough to joke around and talk with at least half a dozen people. A lot of us "anti social" people should be more properly classified as "slow to warm." Give us time and space, and we start to open up a bit. Push us too much, and we disappear into a hole, growling and hissing.
Load More Replies...
I was once marked down (by my team's 2IC) in my annual review for not socialising outside work. I pointed out that it was a job review, and I was doing my job, and well. The manager agreed, but unfortunately she was also upset that then she had to mark her 2IC down in her review for the mistake, and they were good mates. Thought they'd got their revenge by giving me a toxic reference when I left later in the year.... but the manager had written a glowing report 3 months earlier recommending a promotion to another team. I screwed up the reference and used the copy I had of the recommendation instead. Nice try ladies.
1. All this does is try to entice workers to work longer, for free. No one is expecting to be totally silent and not approached at work. But expecting your employee to give up free time to force socialize is only going to breed resentment and a sense of forced loyalty. Not to mention, you are now requiring time and not paying for it? Anyone touting "work family" or attempting to force unpaid time devoted to work is perpetuating toxic and exploitative business practices. 2. This extreme form of forced socializing and control also reinforces office/work politics where people don't get paid or promoted for their value to the company, but with how popular they are - obviously a problematic route in a country as sexist/racist as this one, but also in a less charged environment due to the differences between individual personalities. This "work family culture" only furthers exploitation on all levels. Stop being so needy and just let people do their jobs.
All of these people saying "it wouldn't hurt just a little" and "it's expected, just quit if you don't like it" would be really pressed if they found out how many autistic adults they'd have to start financially supporting if everyone just up and quit. QUIT being such ableist assholes.
I think they'd find themselves with less advanced technology as well, since folks on the spectrum make up a disproportionate majority of software engineers; a job where working as a team and communicating efficiently are essential. Also, the coercive phrases you provided as examples used to be (and in many places still are) used to force female office workers to wear heels & skirts, smile more, make the coffee, etc. If someone can't provide a concrete reason for why something is actually beneficial, then it's just cult mentality.
Load More Replies...
There are team building activities for socializing with coworkers usual the company foots the bill. They should not expect your personal time to be used for company improvement. And by the way what if you were in AA and going to a bar was a big trigger I say you can sue for wrongful termination.
Thank you, that was my thought as well. If someone's in recovery, it would be completely amoral to "expect" them to attend an alcohol-fueled event.
Load More Replies...
I gotta side with the OP. You're paid to do a job, not socialize. After spending 8 hours (maybe more) with a group of people you don't feel a connection with, I'd want to go home and chill by myself too.
...hell, after spending 8 hours with people I DO connect with, I frequently want to chill by myself.
Load More Replies...
If the office wants to do teambuilding exercises, they need to do it during a scheduled, paid meeting. Otherwise, it is actually illegal to require employees to attend unpaid social functions outside of work hours. The right to assemble includes the right NOT to assemble. Let introverts introvert!
At a previous call center job one female employee complained to HR that other employees didn't greet her when she entered the office. Um, hello, these people are talking on the phone to customers - they don't have time to say, "Hello, how are you this morning? How was your commute? Did you watch that new show last night?"
I'm pretty sure I'm too late. But I don't believe that socializing should be a standard at the job. Office or wherever. Show the fine print on the application or job post. 5 min turns into gossip.(did you see how many shots Karen had last nigh?) Now the whole office is talking. Karen knows it and what can she do about it.
This ^^^ These afterwork events always devolve into back-stabbing whoever isn't there to defend themselves. And HR will refuse to engage with it because it took place "outside work hours at an offsite location". When the drama actually spills over into the workplace, they do damage control by firing the minimum number of people necessary to restore order. If there's 8 bullies picking on 1 victim, the victim gets fired.
Load More Replies...
While I agree that it is not lawful to force anybody to participate in after-work events, I really don't agree with the attitude of the woman. I find it oddly ironic that she complains about being an outsider yet makes absolutely not effort to get to know her colleagues. (Yet she has time to make an entire Tik-Tok...hmmm) Yes, small-talk can be annoying and frustrating, however, sometimes it is a necessary part of being part of a team. Communication is paramount to building working relationships. Personally, I would feel a little offended if I took the effort to try to learn about a colleague yet said colleague thought I wasn't worth their time just because we are not friends. Yes, I have a life outside of work and consider myself an ambivert, however, I also understand that there may be times where I have to suck it up and attend an after work event. Sometimes, that small talk can evolve into finding a really neat friend.
I'll pass. I draw a hard line, coworkers are not friends and there will be no interactions outside work hours. I've never accepted a work party invitation that wasn't during work hours. I also won't take part in half the optional team building nonsense during work hours. We aren't a family, we aren't friends. Just leave me alone so I can finish my work and go home.
Load More Replies...
Wow. It is a great thing that nobody in the company coaches their kids' sports, or eldercare responsibilities, or a spouse who shouldn't have to do everything solo in the home while you get your drink on. Oh, and what do they get paid for this mandated after-hours work responsibility that apparently is part of the performance review. Nothing? Oh, wow. It is a real mystery what that person didn't jump at the opportunity to participate in that activity vs exercise her autonomy to do whatever she wanted to do with her uncompensated free time! Yeesh... company is lucky she quit because if she had documentation that this was something used against her in performance reviews, I suspect a lawyer could have turned that into a very painful financial lesson for the organization and she could afford to drink with whoever she wanted to after that. Insane.
That is such b******t. You're not paid to be everyones friend. You shouldn't be mandated to be everyones friend. The only mandate should be that you do your job. I would never wanna work for a place that forced me to hang out with people after work. This is a way to exclude people and make sure that your employees have as little a life outside the company as possible
Those comments at the end talking about how you just got to "fit into the work culture" can f**k right off imo. F*****g privileged a*s extroverts have literally everything in this world designed FOR them and then they have the audacity to tell introverts that they just have to suck it up and fit in? F**k that s**t! I am tired of having my financial stability be tied to my ability to pretend I want to be your f*****g extroverted a*s's friend! I am tired of constantly being anxious about losing my job because my boss thinks I am too quiet and therefore not a good "Team Player"... even though I am picking up the slack of all my extroverted coworkers who spend their day doing nothing but socializing to try to climb that corporate ladder! I am tired of constantly being made to feel like I am less of a person because I am quiet! And I am tired of extroverts with frail egos who just can't seem to understand that socializing with their boring unrelatable asses is exhausting!
So if you had addiction issues would they still fire you if you didn't engage in your co workers needs to be f***ked up?
I think that's bull c**p considering upper management rarely shows their face to socialize or get to know their employees. So how can they enforce a rule that they aren't modeling?? Its a frivolous, arbitrary rule because if there's no work to be discussed and you were doing the opposite- just chatting it up all day- they would be complaining about productivity
I had a similar thing happen. First, it is important to know that I am a man. In my first review my supervisor made the complaint that I don't socialize with the others in the office. She then used as her example, "after work, we all go the Curves together. . . " It is also important to know, Curves is a women-only gym.
She's not paid for their social time. She's paid to do a job. What she's does on her time is totally up to her.
What if you have autism and are in the workplace full time like I am? Trying to socialize with others is downright exhausting. I don’t even know many of the rules for interacting with other people. I just have to guess and pray I don’t offend anybody and forgive myself if I happen to. I will say hi if someone says hi to me and act professionally but I don’t go to company picnics, Christmas parties, drinks after work even though I’ve been invited to all those things. I also turn them down even if I’m getting paid to go because crowds make me very uncomfortable. Imagine the anxiety that can come from literally feeling the energies of hundreds of people all at once which is what happens to me. No thank you. I love quiet. I love meditation and I love nature. Workplaces that do this sort of thing are treading a very fine line between what’s okay to do and essentially discriminating against people who are more introverted.
-and you get acquainted become buddy buddy or best friends out of work and then work side by side chit chatting to pass the time it then becomes a problem and boss decides to assign you both different duties
I love spending time talking to people, once spent an hour talking to the greeter at Walmart. But I'll be damned if I'm going to hang out with the people that I work with after work, I spend enough time with them at work as it is. And yes I like almost all of them. If my boss told me I was required to socialize after work I would demand to be paid for it.
I love working & I've always given 100% to my job *while l was on the job*. But, l have a whole life outside of my job. I will go to occasional lunches, weddings, funerals & retirement parties because l do like & respect my colleagues but l don't want to be friends with you. I have a family that l want to be with. I have things l want to enjoy. I need that outside of work in order to be optimal during work time. I am friendly, empathetic, humorous & always pleasant to everyone on my job but l do not gossip or play games. I do not care to work overtime (flex or comptime)so l finish my work in the time allotted (retired Counselor & Clinical Director)
I can't blame her at all. I would never, ever, do an outside of work event. These people are my coworkers, not my friends. I get in early and have my headphones on. My team very well knows that if they want to ask me questions (I mentor two of them) that I can be reached by IM. I don't want people wandering over to my desk. It works just fine.
People at work are normally not your friends. Why hang out with them. I hated socializing when I was working. I had a small group of people I chatted with.
nah. i hated everyone i had to tolerate at work. if you werent paying me i wasnt talking to you
When I punch the clock for lunch or end of the day, I am on MY TIME and who I associate/socialize with will be determined by ME, not my employer nor my co-workers. I just spent eight hours with these people in an environment that can be taxing, stressful, and/or tiring. Most of the stress and frustration I feel during the day, can be associated with the co-workers/associates or people associated with the job in other ways -- customers, suppliers, etc. The only way I want to spend additional time with them is if I get paid for it.
People wonder why marriages are not lasting. Your boss wants you to put your job before your home life. Wow people do have families responsibilities. Pets etc.... And how about just me time before going to bed to wake up and see you all over again.
I am an extrovert. I get very depressed without human interactions. But I believe in keeping personally life separate from business. No one in my work place needs to know anything about my personal life. Everytime I have gotten personally close to co workers it always results in drama. PLUS I DONT DO ANYTHONG THAT BENEFITS THE COMPANY FOR FREE! I once had a manager tell me they all stayed in for lunch. I asked if it was mandatory. If it is mandatory, it is paid. If it is not mandatory, then I dont have to do it. I have had a company want me to leave my young children for a whole weekend out of state for some dumb pow wow. They also wanted me to sleep in the same bed as my co worker or pay for my own room. (I'm bisexuality so I didnt feel comfortable so I didnt go. Everyone that came back said it was a waste of time. I'm a dental hygienist. No matter how extrovert you are, you need a break from people so you can come back and deal with all the complaining people do nowadays.
I see both ends of the spectrum on one hand office jobs are designed with extroverts in mind with a conform or be left behind mentality but on the other hand as an introvert myself I don't want to be made to socialize if im not comfortable with it frankly modern society seems to throw away anyone who is introverted in any way shape or form
Work culture and after work socializing are all part of manipulating workers into doing more for less. They want workers to feel loyal and responsible for a business that will never have loyalty to its employees. I get paid to work, I'm going to work. They aren't my family or friends.
Like it or not, office is not a place for socialising. It’s a place for productive (& collaborative) work that runs the capitalistic machine. Socialisation happens outside of work, ideally over some kind of shared passion or hobbies that have nothing to do with earning money.
If you happen to be on the Autism Spectrum, you could sue. Autism is a recognized disability; and those with it often cannot socialize. Forcing you to do that would go against the ADA in the US.
I doubt it, if you have trouble with socializing why choose a job in marketing?
Load More Replies... I'm a huge extrovert and I don't do out of hours socialising with work people unless they're people who've become friends and we arrange stuff ourselves. If work wants me to give up my precious free time to do work stuff, they better pay me overtime. I organically make friends at work and I spend time with those people. This isn't kindergarten, I don't need to be forced into socialising with people who all I have in common with is the company name in our paycheck. Buy yeah, the opposite of just rushing into work and not speaking to anyone unless you have to is also not great. All the qualifications in the world aren't going to mean s**t if nobody likes you and wants to work with you. Soft skills are finally being recognised as critical to workplaces and anyone who thinks you can just be a task oriented robot and refuse to engage with your teammates at all, is in for a shock.
People can do their share of the work and do it well without knowing fun facts about their coworkers. We're not shocked at all when our evaluations come up and being part of the team is mentioned as something to work on. This isn't becoming an issue, it's always been this way for some of us.
Load More Replies...
I think she should have find the place where she fits it. Work is also you small community, you spend most productive 40 hours in there of your week. It is nice to get to know people around you and learn about them. I can also be introverted, but it is important to have fun at work too. Also you can put her colleagues in your shoes imagining that you come to work and someone sitting next to you, hating everything and saying I am not being paid to talk with you.
If a coworker came in and said that to me I would laugh and say same. And then proceed not to talk to them for the next eight hours because I too hate small talk. Not everyone is extroverted. For many neurodivergent people like myself, performing social interactions is tiring.
Load More Replies...
this also seems like one is to be punished for having social anxiety i myself feel strong anxiety whenever im expected to make small talk with strangers
This kind of horrorshow is the result of most humans being too obsessed with their own egos to function without forcing everyone else to acknowledge their presence, or better yet bask in awe, Has it occurred to any of you social types that the reason we don’t want to engage in small talk is.because you are painfully boring? Largely because you rarely think about anything besides yourself, your status, and socializing. You’re trying to STARVE normal people into socializing with you, disgusting.
And yes, I consider the majority today to be abnormal. If everyone else was torturing cats, that wouldn’t make it normal.
Load More Replies...
Your employer does not have the right to tell you what you can & can't do in your free time. I had a similar problem (back in the 90's, when I was trying really hard to quit drinking) and told my boss that if I was going to be paid for the "overtime" I would be happy to attend, but if not maybe they should consider having catered lunches (on the clock) instead. I mean if you are required to be at a work function, that's on their dime, right?
I don't mix my personal and professional life. I don't socialize with coworkers. I don't add them on social media. There's literally no good reason to. I can be personable and nice at work, but I'm not getting paid to be their friends or invest emotional energy or off-the-clock time in them.
Teamwork is highly overrated. I've had coworkers steal my ideas and take credit for my work. I've also had coworkers blame me for their mistakes. Of course I couldn't say anything because the coworkers that did these acts are usually good liars and great at kissing a** and have been there longer. Who do you think my boss would have believed if I said anything? Would it even have mattered if he believed me since he likes the offending coworker more? I've also been sexually harassed and bullied and, when I did say something to my bosses, either nothing was done or I was fired. Here's something else I noticed about socializing at college. When I took completely online classes, and never met my teachers or classmates, my GPA was 4.0. I was graded solely on MY WORK. When I started attending classes, my grades really started to suffer. I learned that I work better alone and I prefer it that way. If my employers can't understand that, then they're simply not worth working for. What some may call introverted or antisocial, I call self-defense. You can't get hurt if you don't play the stupid games in the first place.
Companies can't try to make you spend your free time after work socialising. Some people just aren't social and thats okay. You can't make someone change their personality because you want to get good 'happy hour' pictures for your business's instagram page. Free time is free time, your work has no say on that. 'Work Culture' is all well and good but you don't have to force your employees to spend extra time with each other to achieve that.
Ah, workplace sOciALizing! What a cute euphemism for providing ammo to backbiting bastards. I'm the most extroverted introvert you'll ever meet, but that should not suggest i don't know exactly which way the wind blows. "We're a happy family" horseshıt almost always devolves into palace intrigue. Can't these soul-sucking companies admit that it's enforced fun and call it a day? Just tack a sign above the mission statement reminding everyone that Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves.
That’s weird HR gave her a choice. If she’s not a fit then she’s not a good fit, it’s not her fault it just is. Did they thing putting her on the spot would make her more social!? HR was unprofessional imo either tell the coworkers that complained to stop being petty or tell the woman you have to let her go with a recommendation. 🤷🏻♀️
Presenting that choice only set them up for a wrongful termination lawsuit; they're very lucky she quit. Even in "at will" states, if you provide a reason for firing them and that reason is illegal (such as requiring them to do something well outside the bounds of their job duties) then you've violated labor laws
Load More Replies... Has anyone ever noticed that the people complaining that you don't talk to them don't talk to you either? People I work with won't even look at me when I walk by.. they won't even make eye contact. Then they all socialize and ignore me.. if they want to talk to me they can.. the problem is they don't then they complain I don't talk to them.. how does that work? So you don't talk to me and you ignore me and if I try to talk to you you shun me and make me feel unwelcome so I stop trying then you complain about me that I don't talk to you? YOU DONT TALK TO ME, FOOL! people are such hypocrites.. you don't talk to someone and you ignore them then complain they don't talk to you? This is bullying.. work place harrassment... abusive toxic work place culture.. stop pretending this isn't reality. They want you to come over and try to fit in so they can reject you.. I've been dealing with this my whole life so I stopped trying. Now I'm the bad guy because I don't try. guess what, they don't try
The truth is they want you to feel small. They want you to worship them like Gods and they hate you for not brown nosing them.. they want to be mean to you just because they have the power.. we should seriously get rid of all authorities.. it's bad for people. It makes them horrible. They will openly say out loud in front of everyone how they enjoy bossing people around. These people are not leaders.. they are poison to your company.. get rid of them.. they are bot boosting production they are making everyone quit and why your company isn't growing and will never grow.. no one wants to deal with this much bs all day at work.. it's like these social people come to work with a wheelbarrow full of bs then scoop it on your lap and make you push it around on the floor with your nose all day. No one wants to deal with that.. we just want to do our work and go home.. if we have anything to say we will say it and if you want to talk to us we will talk but we don't want to be obligated to be fa
Load More Replies... This is such a major problem at work places and everyone pretends that what I'm about to say isn't true.. there are cliques in work places.. those are the people who talk to each other. If you try to talk to them they will turn their back on you and ignore you. Then they will complain about you and say you're quiet and you don't talk to anyone.. they form little cliques and you're not allowed to join the conversation.. they meet in their little secret place and whisper to each other.. probably about you because you aren't there and now you're not one of the cool people because you aren't over there talking to them.. trust me when I say this.. you are not allowed to talk to them.. if you try they will embarrass you and without saying so yhe vibe will be that no one wants to talk to you, you weren't invited and this is a private conversation. But your reputation at the company will be that you are quiet and anti social.. this is a form of bullying.. work shouldn't be a game of survivor..
I remember for a stage (unpaid internship where they're not expected to hire you at the end, archaic way of learning skills without actually being able to get your foot in the door just so they can use a legal loophole to not pay/hire you), at the end I was told that they wanted me to socialize more. But I was only there for 3 weeks (the length of my stage). I didn't know anyone else there outside of the people in our department. I can do small talk just fine, (heck, I was raised to do so) but I didn't like that their idea was that I take time out of my time there, and instead of working on important and time-sensitive projects, I just randomly go up to people in other departments, interrupt their work as well, and chat away. I was perfectly friendly during lunch hours and anytime I passed people by, but I don't see the point interrupting my own work and the work of others, just to chit-chat with strangers I won't see ever again after a couple weeks. I also find it funny, and legitimately wonder if they got the comments for our end reviews mixed up, that they told me that and not my stage mate, who always kept to herself and never said hello or anything to anyone else.
My son-in-law said he's sorry if people have a cra**y life and don't want to go home but he can't wait to get home to his family.
Just tell them you don't drink because of medication you have to take for a chronic congenital illness. People tend to back off after that. Seriously though...companies that promote this culture are unhealthy; it's bringing all the worst parts of high school into adulthood, with cliques and popular groups, stereotypes, and so forth. I don't like it, and I won't be part of it. Period.
First, if it wasn't in your job description, management can't force you to do it. Second, continue working, continue not attending after work soirees and get fired. Third, Apply for Unemployment and sue the company for unlawful firing. (See #1) Fouth, Get a different job that have sane management Fifth, live happily ever after ;)
I work I the construction field. In my position I do purchasing and accounting. When I get to work I don't have headphones on. I greet everyone with a smile and say good morning. I try to take interest when I see my co-workers. The reason why I spend 8hrs-plus with them Mon-Fri they are like a 2nd family. In order to make sure we trust each other and work as a team you have to have a little socialization. Not saying you have to be in your co-workers business, but make an effort to get to know them a little. In my job I normally am focus at my work the whole day but I do talk to my co-workers and supers. I find it is easier to get things done when you are social and they are more understanding if you can't make happy hour. When I clock out I am solely about my family. Don't get me wrong my family comes 1st I will walk out of a job if force to choose. But I know walking into work I am in work mode. I do what I need to make sure I provide for my family.
Sounds like you enjoy that. Some of us are in fields where we can essentially do our jobs solo with minimal required interaction with others and like it that way. To each their own.
Load More Replies... Some of us introverts have serious mental issues that are worsen by interacting with people. It physically makes me sick to speak to some people. Don't say I should go back to school and enter a different career field. Did that once and everything got worse. If someone doesn't talk to you unless it's work related, don't talk to them unless it's work related. I guess this is what happened when kids with helicopter parents and participation trophies became adults. Also had to stop reading comments to try and explain things to people who don't understand This will always be a problem in the work place because people are people and we're different from each other.
Outside of work time is your time. Period. I have However worked with a communications person who was fairly similar to what's described and was not getting the nuances of what we do or our work culture. And they didn't know they were missing the mark. They needed to spend more time with others doing to work (during work time) to get it.
I'll probably get down voted for this, but some fields of work require communication and even state that for the roles they are hiring on job sites. It sounds like she'd be happier working from home or in a job were it's not much of a requirement and there is nothing wrong with that.
Well, it might be so, but is irrelevant. At a job you sell your time for money. This is a nonrenewable, finite resource. When the demand for such a resource grows, the price goes up, not down. Her company are effectively just cheapskates, forcing her for a discount.
Load More Replies...
Work is never just about work. If people like you, you're more likely to be put on interesting projects and get promoted because people like giving opportunities to people that they like. Being antisocial just because you're an introvert is career limiting and I say this as an introvert.
Potentially self-limiting your promotion opportunities is a VERY different consequence than being threatened with termination. Where did OP complain about being denied advancement? They just wanted to do their job. Don't soften the facts of this story to push an irrelevant narrative.
Load More Replies...
Yeah I'm on the fence here. I certainly wouldnt work for anyone that wanted me to socialize outside of work or participate in exorbitant group activities but just as a human being a culture of simple courtesies and friendliness doesn't seem ridiculous. Obviously this isnt a fireable offense but we do tend to talk alot about being introverted to the point it may be toxic. Humans thrive as social creatures. In a work environment with group efforts and support, wouldn't it be better for your own mental health to have some positive relationships
As mentioned, she has a life outside work which probably means social life. Just excludes co-workers. As for work environment, debatable because trying to force yourself to have positive relationships you had no desire to have or maintain is draining and exhausting.
Load More Replies...
I struggle to understand how anyone can think this woman is in the wrong! She’s paid to go to work and do her damn job, that’s it. She’s not being rude by not wasting company time on the (usually mindless bull&@£t) drivel that makes up “office chat” If the company want more of her time outside of office hours then they can pay her for it!
When I was an admin, I found out that being part of the "socialize after work" group turned me into everyone's therapist. I should have started charging for my time, because some of them would park themselves in my cubicle and drone on forever. I switched to IT and didn't look back.
I'm an extroverted introvert. At least is how I perceive myself. From the outside I seem very confident and extraverted, but in reality I get very anxious about socializing with people, have trouble sleeping over things I said and did and hate myself all the time. So... when our work does extracurricular stuff, usually everyone expects me to be the heart of the party, but I am just not. I mean, I will be if I must attend, but I would rather skip it. Thanks God I am good at my job, because my boss has never said I must attend something or I'll get fired. I would have walked right out of there, no looking back. Being chummy with your coworkers and spending you off time with them is not your job, they are not allowed to force you to it!
What they really meant was if she didn't get drunk and sleep with them after work then they were going to fire her for not "socializing" with them. Much like how I got fired from the Celtic Tavern for not responding to the new owner who was sexually harassing me and he fired me for refusing to sleep with him and then had the audacity to hire a new female and SHE had the audacity to tell me that I was too sexual at work which was the biggest lie and the biggest insult from the little prick who didn't even have the balls to fire me himself.
He sent me pictures of himself wearing nothing but a sock down "there"and tried to kiss me twice when I was restocking liquor bottles and I politely sidestepped him and then chose to leave work early (aka midnight instead of 2am) because he bet one of the cooks that he would sleep with me by the end of the weekend and then invited himself over to my home after work so I left early and said I wasnt feeling well and was going home to lay beside my boyfriend and get some rest. The next day at work he came in and apologized for sexually harassing me while drunk at work and I told him not to worry about it and to forget it and then a few hours later got drunk and tried to offer me a line of coke off the office desk upstairs which I politely declined and then he told me he was turning the tavern into a swingers club and I needed to get on board since he was the owner and he bought the bar so he could f**k the bartenders whenever he wanted to while staying drunk 24/7. I was like no thank you.
Load More Replies... As a person "On the Spectrum" as it is commonly known, I get very uncomfortable with small talk. My mind does not work in the same direction as most people, and crowded situations really bother me. I am blessed that I have a job that allows me to not be
I worked for corporate America for 30 years. Some bosses insisted upon "after hours" socialization, some bosses actually had a life and respected mine. I worked with predominately men who never worried about things like doing laundry, picking up kids, taking care of the household chores, cooking meals as they all had wives or girlfriends who did it for them. I was a single mom and the father to my kids was not in the picture. Plus I had classes to get my degree after work. I didn't have time to be social, I don't drink with co-workers and I couldn't afford a babysitter. Working from home is the best thing in the world! I accomplished more for my company while working from home in one day than I would accomplish in a week going to the office.
Im with op on this one. Unpaid extracurricular activities should not be mandatory. Im here for a job and i work for this business for pay, by the hour. If im on salary, then these activies better be a) listed in my contract & b) legit work time. As in covered by the companies insurance. If i sprain my ankle because u diks made me play football with a bunch of people i dont like, then u guys can pay for it like the workplace injury it legally is. Further, if i have to socialise with these people, do the companies hr policies apply? Can i be fired for expressing an opinion that does not adhere to my companies core values, ON MY FREE TIME FOR WHICH I AM NOT GETTING PAID???? Op company must be ok with l8 night msgs about pay issues, disagreements turning into huge conflicts and the like. Professionals get paid to do work, not drink beers and watch hockey, so idk whats going on there, sounds like a bunch of frat boys out of their depth. Or maybe a cult. Ya, probly a cult.
Quit a job with a phone company because of this exact thing. They wanted me to hang out after hours for so called bonding at the owners house. It took me four days to quit. Never went to the owner's house. Btw one of my employees revealed that his girlfriend broke up with him because he worked to much. That was revealed to me on the first day him.
If I was told this, I would quit, but file for unemployment. And, I would get it. A company has no right whatsoever to dictate what you do outside of work hours.
Look I'm social as hell at work, but i don't hang out with my coworkers outside of work and I'd quit too if it was a required thing. I want to chill with my actual friends and my family, not see my coworkers when I'm not getting paid.
I do kinda miss the job I had where my manager insisted I had "the evil eye". It was refreshing to be told "don't look at me!"
FU CK THESE SH IT GOBBLING THUNDERCUNTS. AIN'T NOBODY PAYING ME ENOUGH TO CHIT CHAT WITH YOUR DONKEY A SS. TAKE YOUR SMALL TALK AND SHOVE IT UP YOUR BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE!
I’ve never been a drinker. Social get togethers we’re just for them to get drunk together. Made me think less of them as they were ugly and stupid when drunk.
If you're acknowledging your coworkers politely and working efficiently, then, why must you be subjected to after work socializing? Happy hour? What if you don't drink alcohol or go to bars? Small talk? A lot of times small talk turns into an interrogation. There's absolutely no need for you to ask me any personal questions that are none of your business and vice versa. Yes, we can talk occasionally but if I have no interest in standing by your cubicle or desk for a chat, your problem is? As long as she's not being overtly rude and dismissive, where's her obligation to hang out with people she's already spent most of her day with? Seriously, people need to get over themselves and stop looking for reasons to harass and aggravate others.
Honestly, I just don't think this job was a good fit for her. Don't get me wrong – I think it's pretty ridiculous to try and force her to socialize, especially when it's clear it makes her uncomfortable, but I do also think she could have done a little more to fit in and get along with her co-workers. I know it's not how it really SHOULD be, in an ideal world, but it is how it is. Especially when greeting people when you come in for the day – just saying hi, how are you, how was your weekend, do anything fun or just relax? – that sorta stuff. It makes you feel more friendly and approachable, for both work and non-work related things. You don't have to be best friends, but you should do your best to be friendly and thoughtful when you can. I also hate to say this, but that's often how you get places in the workforce. Socializing is a softer term for "networking." You might ask your co-workers for a good word in the future, especially when looking for better job prospects. (1/8)
Life is, and never will be, perfectly fair. Sure, we can strive towards a fairer world, do our best to even the playing fields for everyone, but there's only so much we can do at the end of the day. Sometimes things aren't ideal, and it really is NOT fair, and that can be upsetting, because of course it is, but it's also something that everyone has to experience on some level. I don't think that job was a good fit for that girl – her management sounded shitty, and her ideals simply were not aligning with her colleagues. I think it's for the best she left, but I hope she can also learn from the experience and try a little bit harder in the future to be more open and kind to her co-workers, and hopefully prevent her from getting such an ultimatum ever again. (8/8)
Load More Replies...
Each work environment has its own culture and, with that, come the expectations of that workplace culture. It's not a universal right or wrong- but if this places culture was very social, engaging and relational then that is the standard across the board, period. If that's not for you, then that's not the job for you but dont act as if it's the workplaces responsibility to curtail itself to your preference... Find a place that shares your values, ideals and preference when it comes to culture, but don't badmouth another place because it's not what you like
It feels like we’re missing a large part of this story or the appropriate wording that was used from her office as most labour laws would immediately kick in if someone was fired for this. I would almost bet that she was told that she needs to be more involved in the team and if she can’t this maybe isn’t the best fit for her. The fact that believes that people don’t really need to interact with other areas in her office, shows a larger issue.
Sounds like a toxic hellhole ran by the popular kids from high school that never left home and have had intertwined lives for quite some time
I can't believe this is even legal considering it's after hour personal time. What if someone has a drinking problem they're dealing with and would rather not be around alcohol considering bars are usually where workers What to go to after-work. Was mandatory after hours recreation stated on her contract? Seems so odd to me. Work life balance. What if she had kids and a single mom needing to be home with kid after work and school. Inside the office, absolutely be kind and pleasant to work with. I hope she puts her experience on Glassdoor. Seems like the group was harassing her when she didn't want to associate outside of a work atmosphere? I'd report them for contract violation if u were fired for this only issue. We live in weird times. Whatever happened to no fraterazion within a company. Mayne I'm not getting the whole picture but it sounds ridiculous. Find acjob that respects your right to have a life outside of work. Craziness
I agree that your free time is your free time. If part of the job requirement is going to these events then they should make that clear in the interview process. Also, they would have to pay me for my time. The one truly non-renewable resource you have is your time, so it is extremely valuable.
This doesn't seem like an issue of trust within the company. It seems like it's 100% an issue of extroverted leadership completely not comprehending how introverts function. And if your immediate thought is that "they have to get over their shyness," then you also do not comprehend introverts. For introverts, even completely elementary interactions can be very difficult and distracting. Even something stupid like small talk about the weather can cause an introvert to be stuck thinking about it for hours after; going over the interaction in their head and reflecting on how they did in the conversation. It's very distracting and takes a ton of energy and effort. Since introverts know this is going to happen, they tend to intentionally pick and choose their battles. They've developed their own personal brand of social interaction that is super refined and efficient for balancing proper social relationships and the work that is required of them.
Why didn't she wait and get terminated and then enjoy all the lawsuit money??
I'm gonna throw this in: the OP was in the wrong job. Wrong on her side cause she felt like an outsider. Wrong on the job's side cause sh*t you can't get fired for not socializing, esp. after job hours. That's an example of poor leadership & poor management trying to pose as good leadership. The weird thing here is that IME marketing girls are so good at socializing, assembling work groups, and bringing fresh ideas into the office, that I dare to say that the OP just didn't fit in from the beginning. Whether we like it or not, work is a social sphere in our lives; I also despiss after-hours gatherings, cause they are unpaid office time (tell me I'm wrong). But shoot, you gotta connect with the people, OK not at a personal level, it's not like you gotta be the office vixen, always grabbing attention, but (quoting Amy Farrah Fowler) unless you can upload your sentient being into a self-sustained low-orbit satellite, you gotta socialize. I do perceive toxic work culture in the place, ...
Such as straight belongings and clique culture, but I'd encourage the OP to try to fit in a little more. I also defend my personal time, sword in hand, but I mean, it's rather easy to get along with most people.
Load More Replies...
Truth is, you'll see more of your colleagues than anyone else during a week. You spend 8 hours a day at work, another 8 hours (more or less) sleeping. And another 8 hours that are in part used for waking up, preparing for work, travel to and from work, cooking, cleaning and then maybe you have a little time left to do some hobbies, or text with a friend (or if you have a family spend time with them). And you may not find time for your friends until the weekend. So during the week most social interaction we have is with our colleagues. That's why extroverted colleagues will want to have chitchat and develop friendships among each other because they don't want to be lonely. It's what makes people like to come to work in the morning. It's so much more than just "doing your job". A fun and friendly environment can make most people also like the job they do. Maybe less good for productivity, but definitely good for the motivation of people. For introverts this is a problem.
And as most people in an office tend to be extroverted or at least ambivert this social interaction is important. In an office where the boss is hard against this people will be less motivated, or even fall into depression which can lead to all kinds of physical problems and sick leave more, which is much worse for productivity than having moments of chitchat. For an introvert you'll just have to either try to blend in or find a job that requires no social interaction, or allows you to maybe even work from home so you won't have more contact with colleagues than absolutely necessary. You don't have to join happy hours. But you'll just have to try and understand that for your colleagues social interaction is what keeps them motivated to do their work too, which makes them much more productive than if they wouldn't have that interaction. As an introvert you'll have to find the balance between team and work or find work that fits better with you. And I don't like small talk either myself (although I am not introverted, I hate the "how are you?" question as people are rarely ever truly interested and expect "fine, and you?" in return). But I do it anyway because it's so much better than an unhealthy work environment where only "hello" and most necessary communication is shared. Been there. That company didn't thrive because everyone was depressed and moody. I actually got a burnout myself from working there.
Load More Replies...
You don't have to socialize with co-workers outside of work. And I definitely am not the one to chat with co-workers on my commute or join every after-work. But, I do think some small talk is expected to work better together so I get that expectation. It's easier to ask work related questions if you feel like someone is "approachable" and small talk is a way of showing people that. And taking of your head phones to say "good morning" to the receptionist is common curtesy imo.... you don't have to be friends (I'm definitely not) but you sort of do need to be friendly.
Used to work for a company that had *forced* team building events that involved wearing a bright yellow t-shirt, so we looked like frigging minions. I didn't like the majority of the team so would find excuses to not be part of the degradation. I'm there to do a job, not be your friend.
I swear to God, so many people here in the US don't understand us introverts. I should not be forced to undergo small talk with people who aren't friends and family. It's awkward and annoying to me. I have no problems with more substantive and urgent discussions, but small talk is a waste of my time. I, as an introvert, should not be forced to cater to the needs of extroverts just because they dominate our society. End of story!
Leave me alone during my breaks and lunch. And after work? Not a chance. I go home. But when I'm at work, I talk to, and socialize with all of my coworkers. And I'm an introvert. This woman actually sounds like she just doesn't like people.
I don't socialize with all of my coworkers, and I don't dislike people. I socialize with SOME of my coworkers, but most I just talk about work with, if I talk at all. There doesn't have to be some great dislike of people to just want to put your head down and work. If you re-read, she says that the majority of the people her bosses want to force her to socialize with aren't even in the same department as she is. They literally have nothing to talk about. And being constantly pushed to violate her own privacy frankly isn't going to make her WANT to talk to them ever.
Load More Replies...
I work in the same industry as her, and marketing in that field is all about making contacts and networking with others in the industry even if they are in your own office. I'm seriously surprised to see that there is some sort of mental block as to importance of networking for career advancement, etc. Seriously, has no one told her how the game is played, and if she doesn't feel like playing, fine, but don't complain when players don't want you. And I say this as somebody whose had many many years of work experience, these are lessons that I learned, not things I knew off the bat. I feel like she could benefit from some career counseling, because a lot of work life isn't always about the work. Clearly the culture at the place she was working at wasn't the right fit for her and vice versa and that counseling could probably help her figure out what would be a better fit for her.
She wasn't complaining that "the players don't want her," she was complaining that they DID, thanks. Frankly, from what she described, it sounded cliquish AF, and probably sexist if not misogynistic. The kind of place where no networking was ever actually going to take place, just a lot of gaslighting.
Load More Replies...
She is right, as an ENFJ, even I would respect her level of socialization and not push it. She also correct that IT and engineering employees are like her. My son is that type, INTP. Leave me to my work, if I want to chat, I'll chat. He is HFA Aspergers Syndrome which is part of it. I asked him what he thought of Sarah's issue. He said it should never be forced especially outside of work, because they aren't paying for those 2 hours and they are not paying for a small meal or drinks. During work, especially in teams, of course, being on topic and discussing work is ok. Leave her alone. If she wants to know how the weather is, she can look outside or click an app.
I agree that you have to be careful who you talk to and what the topic is. 3 years ago I told a couple "trusted" people about my wife being pregnant, and one day other people were asking me about it even though I had asked not to spread it around. We were still in the early phase and wanted to make sure the pregnancy didn't go wrong before spreading the news. From then on I didn't share anything personal anymore.
I am on the autism spectrum and had just discovered I was at age 48. I have trouble socializing, but if my employers wanted something done properly and on time, they could count on me to do the job. To the point where I was doing other people's work too, because they were busy gadding about and gossiping about other people instead of their job. So the socially-awkward lady who could be easily manipulated through guilt eventually became the one who had to do the jobs. I hate the office culture, do why would I want to interact with these people after hours.Not my idea of R&R. Now I work for myself, and I love it!
Never had an office job where I didn't sleep with a coworker. I definitely make a better field worker. 😛
I'm not much of a socializer either and definitely don't do after work get togethers. However, I do the occasional pop in their offices and ask how's it going, family doing okay etc. Sometimes just to share some research info I read somewhere maybe. If it's a toxic team, I will do the bare minimum, attend meetings, but get together is harmful for your mental stability and prolong your expore to the negativity. It would be a hell no. Unless your contract says you need to offer up personal time with toxic colleagues. Otherwise walking in with headphones is a bit unprofessional and sends its own message. At work I would suggest make a bit more of an effort to " hang with the peeps" type of thing just so they get to know you. Some people have a legitimate disability regarding socializing and if you are fired because of it, it can cost a company. Otherwise your time away from work remains your own.
So what message would you take from my entire team having headphones in and only talking via IM? Verbal communication is pretty much unnecessary in the office. Email and IM are fine. I've gone many a day without saying a word out loud to anyone.
Load More Replies...
I worked in a regional construction company, but project teams were usually 6-12 people depending on the size of the building. I'd attend the monthly birthday happy hour for the region that was usually about 30 people including the VP to build relationships with people I might work with someday. However, during an annual review, my direct boss told me that I needed to eat lunch with my project team. I shouldn't have to explain that it's the only time during my 10+ hour day to make personal phone calls, run errands, etc. In the end, he liked his lunch bunch better than me and guess who got laid off when the economy tanked? Well, at least I hadn't wasted my money going to lunch with them. I should also mention that I was the only female PM in the region, so the only woman in my project team.
Did the firm pay for drinks? If not, the boss has no standing to have an opinion. This is clearly an extremely toxic workplace. I can't think of a more effective way to create a hostile and intimidating work atmosphere. I hope the firm goes belly-up.
Small talk? No way! Blathering my opinion to millions all over social media, well that's just fine with her! And actually, social media is the smallest talk of all.
She chose to make a post, and she chose not to engage in small talk at work. I see no issue there. Trying to set rules for when she should speak is exactly the problem.
Load More Replies...
Sara is probably on the spectrum and feels weird around people. I would welcome a mixer once a week but more than that, probably no. If you like the people around you It makes your day better. Time flies and it's always nice to expand your circle of friends if you talk to people long enough you find things in common.
What Sara is, is an employee forced to do overtime without pay. I do not mind meeting people from the office outside of office, when I and they feel like it. But under a threat? Oh, that is gonna do wonders for the rapport!
Load More Replies...
I regular prepare food and meals for my co-workers ends we sit and eat together. A team that gets along is happier, more cohesive, and far more productive than a team that just simply works and goes home.
The team will be absolutely thrilled when you make them socialise under a threat of losing their job, right?
Load More Replies...
Isn't a position in marketing about... marketing? Which means making connections to people through your marketing campaigns? Which might be more effective if you knew the people you were marketing for as well as to? Marketing and advertising type jobs ARE social jobs right..? I'm not saying force yourself to be social. But if social expectations aren't okay with you then steer clear of the jobs that require "who you know" over "what you know." I am pretty introverted and only have a very small group of friends (literally maybe 6 people) and I don't normally socialize outside of that group... which is why I wouldn't take a job where socializing - even "business lunches" - is required. Don't get in your own way.
Marketing job descrption: monitor market trends, create advertising campaigns, develop pricing strategies and targeting strategies based on demographic data. Where's the socialzing? You're thinking of sales.
Load More Replies...
Its not required like in Japan. Sounds like they wanted to smash and get a foot in
IMO First, you need to start acknowledging your co workers upon arrival as its’s very unprofessional of you. It doesn’t mean you have to carry on a conversation, just an acknowledgment in passing. If you are doing your job without being written up for some infraction, Meet with your employer, have your phone on record and discuss the situation. If during this meeting he threatens to fire you, just say you understand and end the meeting. Then consult an attorney to discuss matter as they are creating a hostile work environment against you and you would have the recording. You may not want to keep your job after this, but it may result in a reprimand and fine for them and compensation for you while looking for new employment. If this action is taken, they won’t be able to give you a bad recommendation.
Keeping to yourself at work all the time comes off as negative. Negativity is contagious just as much as having a positive outlook is. Being approachable is especially important in the workplace environment, because your co-workers are your teammates. If you have a job where your role is very solitary, little to no interaction with your co-workers then there's no reason to build a relationship. Emailing, Skyping, teleconferencing, they also require some level of interaction. You shouldn't be obligated to go to every after work function, but at least show some effort that not only can you be a team player but that you can do it without being cynical.
Yeah, no. Forcing me to try is what MAKES me cynical. Back off, give me some goddamn space, and I will eventually open up some. It shouldn't be on ME to "make the effort," it should be on the workplace to be supportive enough that employees feel safe. Besides, she literally says that her job DOESN'T need much interaction with the people that are whinging that she's not socializing with them.
Load More Replies...
Those whining about having to be social should find a job that can make the most of your antisocial ways. The problem is once you become a manager or boss, you lose the ability to know your employees. I’ve worked for people like that and it’s horrible. Everyone is antisocial nowadays, until they get on social media then they become a posting sharing twit. I remember the good old days where to do anything you had to network, with real live people. All this getting on social media to complain to complete strangers makes me wonder why you can complain to all of us in detail, but not at least get to know those you work with. Just saying.
I've never seen someone whine so much about the existence of whiners. It's so hypocritical, that I wonder if it's actually just satirical performance art.
Load More Replies...
I’m tired of people using the “introvert” tag to support being rude. At least say hi without skipping past people with your headphones in. Jeez. I’m an introvert, but I’ll still push myself out there to be pleasant to people. I’ll go to morning teas and chat about whatever is going. I’d rather not, but being distant and aloof isn’t great for the workplace as a whole. Just put your big girl pants on and be a decent human being that at least appears approachable. No one wants to be at work, but at least having a friendly atmosphere helps everyone cope, even introverts. But please, stop justifying your rudeness with the “oh I’m just an introvert” freaking excuse. It’s not cool. Don’t be rude
You seem like the guy who thinks like a switch. If someone doesn't like you, they MUST hate you. When in reality, they don't give you a second thought and it drives you up the wall. The world is not 1 and 0's like a machine. The story, she did the minimal interaction need for her work, you're trying to twist it as if she threw up middle fingers when she pass her coworkers because she didn't want to do more.
Load More Replies...
Skip the headphones and say hello, that's weird. But after work, stop trying to monopolize people's time. It's mostly to make it harder for you to leave. Work doesn't equal life.
A smile and a wave is a perfectly legitimate non-verbal greeting. It's weird that people are getting so bent out of shape over not hearing a made-up nonsense word come out of someone's mouth even thought that person IS greeting people in another fashion.
Load More Replies...
I too don't like interacting with other people, it's somewhat of a chore. I would at most say hello and respond to them, not initiating any conversations. Besides, who actually wears headphones at work? Will there come a day when news like The Onion are no longer mere sources of entertainment? Yeah, no, that's not happening, forget about it.
Pretty much everyone in my office has their headphones on all day at work. This is not unusual.
Load More Replies...
How do you work in marketing and avoid the people you were hired to marker for?
By asking them for what you need to know from them. She doesn't need to know how Bob in design was threw up during Happy Hour drinking. Marketing also rarely need social interaction, they need data that can be provided since right now, a computer is collecting data on you as you surf the net without asking how your day was.
Load More Replies...
(Even as someone who's a huge fan of antiwork, and hates corporations and such) I feel like people have to understand that there are several elements to a job, and they all have to suit you in order to be successful. A job isn't just doing the work. There's also workplace culture, goals & ethics, and the dress code, for example. You're def not obligated to do anything after work hours, however, it was part of the culture before *you* got there, and it messes up the flow if you're indifferent. It means that particular job isn't for you, and you just need to move on to a different one that suits you
If participating in an established workplace culture is an essential part of the job, then it's the employer's responsibility to be upfront with that requirement in interviews and write it into the contract. Trying to coerce someone into participating after the fact is toxic and unprofessional. Also, you shared mutually exclusive opinions: you can't say that someone isn't obligated to participate, and also say they aren't suitable for the job if they decline; if declining means they should quit, then it IS an obligation.
Load More Replies...
I am reading a lot of these comments and the general attitude is "it's all about me, I don't need to talk to you, I don't need to care about you." Its an all about me attitude. When you pass anyone, you give them the same courtesy you would give anyone else. Since I care about you as a person... I would take off my head phones, smile, look at you in the eye, and say good morning. Please be open to others... The "I" generation is really wrong about this. On the other hand, you cannot force someone to have manners or be social... Maybe the worker will find another place where she fits in a little more.
Sorry but if you, as a stranger or someone I have no particular connection to, expect me to take off my headphones to talk to you that's delusional. The fact that I have them on should be the clue that I have absolutely no interest in talking to anyone. That's kind of the point.
Load More Replies...
Most top level business is done at parties and after hours social events where buddies and friendly people get contacts before strangers at arms length do.
Maybe she should rethink her career choice: marketing is built on small talk, chit chat, and social skills. Marketing for any big firm is 150% a people job. If you're not social, it is NOT for you. Also, if you're the only one who doesn't like the way a place is, stop being selfish and demanding everyone else please you. World doesn't revolve around you buttercup. I abhor chit chat and socializing but understand that some situations you just got to put on your big kid pants and get over yourself.
Can you tell me how her going out with her colleagues and drinking after work tie into her work, and if you do small talk it should not be about work since the it isn't "small talk" but work talk.
Load More Replies... Fts! keep to yourself, and away from me. I want none of your drama
I just think that it's important to be a bit social and approachable regardless if you hate ppl at work be professional be friendly try to lighten the mood and I do feel a little out of work socialization is important to better know and understand each other and it may even be a relief or a way for many to vent work and home unburden oneself but of coarse their should be some limitation but completely skipping happy hour or small talk can come of as stuckup snobbish rude to many so I can see that to avoid this id say just stay 5 minutes say a word or two or wish everyone a good night instead of walking straight out the door. so in any case if it's that big a deal to the company then they should probably test ppl personalities before hiring or ask questions such as would you call yourself social or anti social do you enjoy small talk. The big problem which is ridiculous in regards to these kinda standards that companies claim they care about I'd that the moment that your coworkers and
There's a difference between her "keep interaction to minimal" to your "I hate you and this job" impression.
Load More Replies...
Lol, this nonsense that's an excuse for forced conformity. No thanks.
Load More Replies... She just sounds really self centered. There's nothing wrong with being cordial, even friendly, with coworkers during work hours. I wonder how she'd feel if the tables were reversed. She should look for a remote job that doesn't entail interacting with others.
How is being introverted and having nothing in common with colleagues self-centered? She specifically said she was friendly, she just didn't seek out conversations.
Load More Replies...
Communication with other humans can be learned, but you need practice. Sometimes things feel uncomfortable, and you may need to face that head on. You DON'T need to be friends. You DO need to learn how civilized adults communicate. Otherwise, you are going to alienate yourself and others. To hide yourself from other people is to hide yourself from life. IMHO.
The patented, just force yourself to do it. Make small meanigless worthless talk with the people that you're dont like or hate as your physical body get exhausted from forced interaction. It'll get better and the less uncomfortable approach. That completely ignores the reasons why introvert are introverted. By definition,. they enjoy spending time with one or two people, not large groups of crowds. We find it physically exhausting to be in crowd and it doesn't change how often you try to force it. This isn't some kind of exercise where you build up muscle after being exhausted by forcing yourself to do something.
Load More Replies...
People that I have nothing in common with... Maybe spend some time trying to know them better? It's a rare occurrence that I cannot find anything that we can relate to with a new person in my life.
She has no reason to want to though. These aren't her friends.
Load More Replies... Your coworkers aren't robots. It is exceedingly rude to treat them like they should be. It is quite telling, in a negative way, if someone, firstly, chooses to never do anything they aren't comfortable with or doesn't come 'naturally' to them, and secondly, doesn't try to at least become professionally pleasant and familiar with the people sharing the work world they spend half their waking hours in. It's good she quit, because she was likely on her way to being fired.
I tend to be a solitary introvert who really doesn't mind not talking to anyone for days on end. However, I think that the lady is acting quite inappropriately here, at least if I have understood correctly that she has not engaged with her colleagues at least a little so far. Does she hate/despise her colleagues so much that she doesn't want to come along at least occasionally for lunch? Is she just that insecure? Or is she just so self-centred that she doesn't want to do anything with the others? Either way, social interaction can be learned and should be taught, at least in my opinion. Even if people have completely different social backgrounds, there is almost always some common ground. Maybe they are just interested in a hobby of yours that they didn't know before.
This has to be in the south. Probably Texas. It's a cultural thing that comes from latinos and it's gotten mixed in. Not talking to someone is worse than murder to them. She is saying office but when I worked at a UPS warehouse, they were like that too.
How in the actual f**k did you manage to make this a race thing? Are you one of those people who think each racial demographic has a particular set of behavioral traits that is exclusive to them?
Load More Replies...
It is sad but she should realize that her lack of socializing was her choice and was seen as something negative or “stuck up”. She didn’t have to go to happy hours but a little more effort on her part was not asking for too much.. Apparently that no longer made her am asset to her company. Both parties should be happy now and I do not feel sorry for her. Maybe in her next job she will realize this is not a perfect world and we do not always get what we want. Grow up, girl, the world does not revolve aroun you!
She isn't responsible for the conclusions others make about her refusal to be coerced into toxic workplace culture. If they want to be an immature click that s**t-talks behind her back, that's solely their problem. Her only responsibility to that company is to do her job, which she did. Setting healthy boundaries and sticking to them was the most grown up thing she could have done. If you think caving to the pressures of high-school level drama and illegal labor practices would have been more mature, then I have some bad news for you.
Load More Replies... Opinion on this is...so, so mixed. I don't like being around other people a lot, but this person gave them NO chance to get to know her as a person. A wall from the get go. Not even a hello of any meaningful kind. Workplace effectiveness is a brick wall when someone literally is one as well ...
Yeah, and her description of the workplace indicated toxic c**p from the door. I don't know why you consider some hellos more "meaningful" than others; literally it is a nonsense word made up to acknowledge someone's existence. A smile and a wave does exactly that.
Load More Replies... Socializing is a key part of team building. A 20 something clearly doesn't get it.... she is focused on the superficial " I hate smalltalk" while ignoring the very important bonding to be part of the team. A kid wouldn't understand that part, working with other people isn't being part of a team. But she quit, some day princess will "get it ". I don't drink either but this isn't about drinking.
Lol, as a 40 something who trains and mentors people for my team I have zero interest in "bonding" with them and never will. These are coworkers, not friends, and I'm not going to pretend to have interest in their lives or share mine.
Load More Replies...
Typical of narcissist personalities or just plain spoiled self centered immature brats. " I refuse to get along".
Not talking to people isn't being self centered or a brat. Not talking to people isn't refusing to get along. Maybe your self righteous attitude is one of the reasons people don't want to talk to you.
Load More Replies... There's a line, no matter how you look at it. Yes you don't want to spend all your extra time with her CO workers. Some people love doing that, and that's that's them. But to build a good team, you do need to spend some time outside the office with them. You learn more about the people that you are working with, which in turn helps you do a better job. I'll be the 1st to say, that I hate these places that make constant team building exercises and socialization, but spending a couple of months with their CO workers outside of the the office is a good idea. Finally, saying you are in marketing, but don't want to learn more about your coworkers, means you are doing an average job not a good one. To be good in marketing you need to know a lot about your company in order to sell it, which includes coworkers.
Sorry, but I don't agree with that at all. I am a head of department at work and we all work as a very effective and efficient team despite none of us having contact with each other out of work. We are effective and efficient because we are all experts at our jobs. I know no more about my colleagues than I need to. I don't need to know anything about my colleagues family or social life in order to treat the patients that come to our practice, all I need to know are their strengths, weaknesses and areas of expertise at work. I don't need to socialise with them in order to do this I just need to pay attention to how they work. I can learn all I need to learn about them at work.
Load More Replies...
Try working for a company that pays you 24/7, 365 days a year - our evening dos are sometimes a three line whip. And if you weren’t able to go, you’d have to send a formal letter or email excusing yourself. Welcome to the Armed Forces!
No thank you, I would never, ever become a member of the armed forces. If someone wants that sort of lifestyle, then fine. But I have a 9-5 job specifically because that is just about all I can bear to be around other people, I would not take a job that requires me to socialise with my colleagues after work. I am a teetotal introvert with absolutely not interest in going to pubs or clubs with the people I work with, I don't even attend any organised parties with work, and all I want to do after work is go home to my own space and do my own thing usually on my own. I spend all day listening to and dealing with other people's problems and I love my job, but it is just a job, it is not my life.
Load More Replies...
Uhhhh I hate this sort of thing where you have to fit a role on a personal level as well as professional. I got a verbal warning for not smiling enough in a non customer facing role, where my manager could only see my face when I was at my computer. I quit a week later.
Yeah, that smiling because other people think you should has to be one of the most irritating things ever. Lots of people think it's horrible for a man to yell that to a woman while she's walking down the street; but it's perfectly acceptable to say it to her day after day at work.
Load More Replies... Skipping "happy hours" is fine, especially if they occur rather often. But dashing in with headphones on not even saying hello and howdy is just rude. And I say this as someone who hates small talk.
You need to reread the entire article. Yes she takes her headphones in. However she also takes notice of who she passes, acknowledging them and saying hello. She simply doesn't stop to chit chat.
Load More Replies... Bottom line, threatening to fire somebody because they don't socialise if just horrific. I can't blame her for quitting or going to tribunal (if she lives somewhere you have employment rights). Personally I don't mind if people don't want to socialise outside work. Your time is your own, as are your reasons for not socialising. Saying that, marketing is one of those professions where a bit of socialising comes with the territory. I would never suggest having a personal "no work socialising" rule. It's quite presumptive about your colleagues as individuals and you do gain insights into them and their work. You might even find you've actually got things in common with them. Equally if you've tried it and they're awful, there's no shame in not socialising with them.
I feel like marketing is just a really terrible industry to go into if you hate socialising and are an introvert
Load More Replies... “Ugnè Ragauskaité - It makes sense why people need to socialise. If others cannot feel comfortable with you then it will effect communication during the work time” Bull. If you can’t effectively communicate with your coworkers without them being your friend, you’re unprofessional and immature. Adam Savage and Jamie Hyneman supported the massively successful television series Mythbusters for 14 years and never once even had dinner together outside of work. As a musician, one of the best working relationships I ever had was with a drummer with whom I had nothing in common. We were fans of each other’s work and always friendly to each other, but outside of practice and gigs we never saw each other. I’m still friends with the guitarist from that project 25 years later, and I love him, but it’s unnecessary for working relationships as long as you’re courteous, respectful and professional.
Penn and Teller are famously not friends. They're partners. They've been wildly successful for decades together. They collaborate beautifully. They don't go hang out together. There's no need for that to get things done.
Load More Replies... I HATE small talk. When I worked at an office I'd bite the bullet would be as nice and polite as possible and talked to everyone, to the cleaners and temps to the MD and CEO. But when my work hours were done I'd run a mile and would indeed turn around or cross the road to avoid any co-worker and I'd set myself on fire before attending any office party or after work drinks. Being friendly doesn't mean being friends.
If I say hello to someone, it is going to dim my opinion of them considerably if they don't say hi back. If nothing else.
Load More Replies... I dont socialise with people I work with. This is a rule I set for myself years ago. Where I work the people are too involved in each others business and often spread gossip and back stab each other when one is not around. Its like being in high school.
The gossip and backstabbing is always what these "team building" exercises turn into. And those high school social dynamics apply in full; if you don't participate in the bullying, you become the one getting bullied. They assume that everyone engages in the same toxic behavior they do, therefore if you aren't there to s**t-talk with them, then you must be elsewhere s**t-talking about them, and they're not going to let you get the better of them! Companies only enable this because narcissists with fragile egos tend to make excellent salespeople.
Load More Replies... I couldn't give a rats a*s about what my co-workers did or are doing.
To me it should come down to what you were hired for. Are you performing all of the job requirements as outlined in your job description and contract? If so they can go fly a kite. If socializing was part of your job description and your not doing that... you may need to think about a different job.
LEGALLY, you can not be required to socialize outside of office hours. Period. You can not be told what you can or can not, have to, or do not have to, do when you are off the clock. IF it is in your contract to socialize outside of office hours, they have to pay you for the hours you socialize, because you are legally on company time.
I get along fine with all the people I have to work with, but I do not socialize with any of them outside of work.
I've been at my job for nearly 20 years. I haven't been to a Christmas party or office gathering since at least 2015. I used to go to those but didn't see any point in wasting a date night out with my wife listening to c**p music and watching people get drunk. I stopped coming, they don't bother me about it. I'll decide when, where, and with whom I want to hang out and no employer is going to tell me otherwise. If they tried with me what they tried with the OP their asses would be hit with a serious attack of paper from my lawyer. Trying to coerce someone into after-hours partying is NOT legal. Period.
Every job is not for everyone. I once worked at a canvassing job. Before we were set on our routes there would be this motivational meeting. I hate emoting fake emotions but I tried to show some enthusiasm. The manager said I needed to be more enthusiastic and energetic during the meetings. I really didn't feel comfortable hollering really loudly, jumping, cheering. I lasted a week and then quit before they fired me.
Ok... but the difference is that the job in the article (or whatever this is... post?) Did not require this woman to socialize by going to get drunk with coworkers she wasn't friends with after work in order to perform it successfully... that was an unreasonable expectation by her bosses. The article isn't talking about how it sucks having to socialize with people in a sales gig... it's talking about how they were goijg to be fired for not socializing in a marketing team role that was not customer facing and mainly involves data analysis/writing. Ie. Analyzing spreadsheets, interpreting data, writing conclusions/other insights. It's a different situation.
Load More Replies... People are social beings. A somwhat friendly base of communication can be expected, more so if you work in small teams with a shared goal (like sales reps, medical advisors, marketing groups and such). That being said, outside of conventions, congresses or comparable situations I work 9 to five and I do not participate in after-work-gatherings. I have a full(filling) private life and my work/life balance is the most important thing to me. I don't get paid? Don't expect me to show up (with above mentioned exceptions, but then I will get free meals and drinks, so I get "paid").
Not all people are social. There are personal/diagnosed reasons for not being social and no one should be forced into socializing.
Load More Replies... I'm glad I don't live in the US. This is a US thing. I worked full time, was raising 3 children with next to no help from my ex, and if I had to stay after work for extra "social" time, I'd have had to quit, too. I had 3 kids who wanted supper, and I'm supposed to stay at work and drink and socialize? I don't bloody think so!
It's hilarious that y'all just....KNOW what country is pulling this. A gross exploitation of the workforce that half the country is defending? Must be the Americans.
Load More Replies... I dislike this forced office culture as family on the outside. I saw the relative who picked up drinking again to Fit In, who had to work weekends doing nothing To Look Determined after finishing their expected work during the week, who Had To leave early and stay late to look like they did the work they already did. I get that this type of job isnt for me but im not certain it is for anyone with kids or medical issues or not claiming to be a Type A personality either
Companies who value presenteeism over actual productivity deserve to fail.
Load More Replies... I get along fine with most of my co-workers, but I don't consider any of them my friends. I'd never go out of my way to hang out with them after work. I worked a previous job that I climbed the ladder to be in managerial position. The owner liked to throw stupid Christmas parties after work hours and they were always a 90 minute drive. I never went because of the drive, and because again I didn't consider consider my workers friends. Why would I want to hang out with a bunch of people that aren't my friends? He got mad at my non-attendance and questioned me. I asked if he was paying for my gas there and back and for my time? He of course said no because he's paying for the event. I said I would never attend then because the event wasn't keeping my bills paid.
I've gone to and indirectly observed enough of these "team building happy hour" gatherings to know that they are not so much about "team building" as they are "other bashing". Everyone just s**t-talks about something/someone they mutually dislike and have a laugh about it. This can build camaraderie when coworkers air grievances about particularly difficult customers, a vendor who imposed a delay, etc. However, if these gatherings are frequent and you don't attend, then you become a part of that "other" that they bash; they will exaggerate characteristics about you and valance them negatively, invent unflattering narratives for why you don't participate (ex. "they think they're better than us!"), and beat you down to build themselves up. If extrovert salespeople can only manage their mental health by engaging in a collective petty trash-talking purge, then fine; that's their free time. But no one should have their career suffer for refusing to engage in the psychoses of adult children.
I'm just thinking about the time I tried to socialize and I learned my co-worker is an anti-vaxxer. I see them as subhuman public health terrorists so turns out socializing was a bad thing. I did my best to avoid that person afterwards. If you want to talk to me about video games or something cool. Otherwise leave me alone unless it's work related. I've been loving remote work as the only co-worker I have to see in person is my wife.
I would regularly avoid socializing outside work hours with my colleagues unless top boss was insisting on corporate dinner which was about once a year. Anyway after much harrassment by a particular colleague (A) I decided to go out with a bunch of them one night. After I left later that night things got steamy between "A" and another a chick from depot "B" , both were very drunk. On the Monday all hell broke loose in office, "A" was being sexually harrassed at work by "B". And B was subsequently stood down without pay for a few weeks. B had barely crossed paths with A except at club. It later turned out that B wasnt interested in A and A wasnt happy about it and because B refused to discuss it at work or acknowledge her on the Monday morning, A decided to cause problems with B. They both tried to get me involved cause I had been at club earlier. This is why I dont socialize with colleagues outside of work because I ain't got time for dramas that spill over into office and workplace.
Some people think gossiping IS small talk. Never had a job where that didn't happen.
Load More Replies... I have flashbacks of Marshawn Lynch and how the Commissioner of Football kept demanding that he give after the game interviews with reporters. I kept thinking "Leave the man alone and let him do his job...playing football." Why is it a requirement to be social. Plus, I've gotten mixed messages from places I've worked. The 'Mind Your Own Business' to 'Why Aren't You More Social?' I hate small talk because it will sometime melt into topics I don't care to discuss. You want to talk about the job or about things going on in your life...fine. But if you want to gossip or stand on a soap box to present your political/religious views...I have better ways to spend my time.
Marshawn Lynch is a completely different things than here. In the NFL you are contractually obligated to give media interviews. If you don't want to meet your obligations then you have to face the consequences. The poster here had no such contractual obligation, just a rude demand.
Load More Replies... This is BS. Hanging out after hours with colleagues is BS. It benefits YOU in no way what so ever. All it does is waste YOUR time and YOUR money, both of which we don't have to spare. Say you do this and *bond* with all of your colleagues, including your boss, then some emergency occurs. Do you expect your boss to say, "Oh, how awful! Well, I know corporate policy is this but since we've *bonded* I'm going to break policy and do this..."? Heck, no! The company and profits will always come first, so all this will do is foster a sense of betrayal. Not to mention this encourages cliques, remember those from school? Why the heck would you want to go back to that? No you clock out, you go home and get on with your life. You don't LIVE to WORK, you WORK to LIVE.
Everyone is debating this as a social issue, but it's a very cut and dry legal one: if she is REQUIRED to attend functions after work for her job, then she should be compensated for that time. Threatening someone's job because they decline your social invites is moronic and should really be illegal as retaliation. Any well reasoned person would just stop inviting someone they know is going to decline.
Oh, so the punishment will continue until the morale improves? If these "happy hours" are compulsory, as apparently they are since the threat, they are work hours and i expect to get paid, and at the overtime rate.
marketing is salary normally not hourly. rules like that don't apply
Load More Replies... People who complain about others not socializing should GET BACK TO WORK AND STOP TALKING. Introverts usually can see the fakeness in office socialization...and we often get a hell of a lot more done than always chit chatting about nonsense and your weekend habits for which I give absolutely zero f***s!
Maybe having her quit was the whole idea behind the ultimatum. She wasn't liked and she didn't like them. They won.
Win-Win, if that's the case, who wants to work with people that petty. Hope she finds somewhere less toxic.
Load More Replies... I'm 66 yes old and when I go to work I go TO WORK. You make friends when you want. My work is my survival for INCOME not for making friends, but if it happens awesome, but should happen naturally and NOT forced. Look at it this way, it's the same reasons you shouldn't work with family (again a choice, my choice not my employer). Please stay in your lane. You can't force LOVE, but you can't force SOCIALIZING as well. Have a great day all. 😀
I'm with her FTS! I am not your friend, leave me alone to do my job. I do not want to talk to you, I don't want to get to know you. Keep your drama garbage to yourself.
A person should never be forced to be social with their fellow employees. It's called WORK for a reason! Being polite and professional at the office is enough. A lot of fantastic employees like to keep their private and professional life separate, and there is nothing wrong with that. There's actually a lot of benefits to that. One is less office gossip and drama. Sometimes even the most anti-social person can become more social...but it works best if it happens naturally over time and isn't forced. It seems more and more it is hard to find dedicated, efficient employees. Employers should appreciate the ones who are and not force them to do things against their nature that have nothing to do with their job description.
My current job proves your point. When I started, I didn't want to talk to ANYONE about anything not related to work. Six months in, and now I feel comfortable enough to joke around and talk with at least half a dozen people. A lot of us "anti social" people should be more properly classified as "slow to warm." Give us time and space, and we start to open up a bit. Push us too much, and we disappear into a hole, growling and hissing.
Load More Replies... I was once marked down (by my team's 2IC) in my annual review for not socialising outside work. I pointed out that it was a job review, and I was doing my job, and well. The manager agreed, but unfortunately she was also upset that then she had to mark her 2IC down in her review for the mistake, and they were good mates. Thought they'd got their revenge by giving me a toxic reference when I left later in the year.... but the manager had written a glowing report 3 months earlier recommending a promotion to another team. I screwed up the reference and used the copy I had of the recommendation instead. Nice try ladies.
1. All this does is try to entice workers to work longer, for free. No one is expecting to be totally silent and not approached at work. But expecting your employee to give up free time to force socialize is only going to breed resentment and a sense of forced loyalty. Not to mention, you are now requiring time and not paying for it? Anyone touting "work family" or attempting to force unpaid time devoted to work is perpetuating toxic and exploitative business practices. 2. This extreme form of forced socializing and control also reinforces office/work politics where people don't get paid or promoted for their value to the company, but with how popular they are - obviously a problematic route in a country as sexist/racist as this one, but also in a less charged environment due to the differences between individual personalities. This "work family culture" only furthers exploitation on all levels. Stop being so needy and just let people do their jobs.
All of these people saying "it wouldn't hurt just a little" and "it's expected, just quit if you don't like it" would be really pressed if they found out how many autistic adults they'd have to start financially supporting if everyone just up and quit. QUIT being such ableist assholes.
I think they'd find themselves with less advanced technology as well, since folks on the spectrum make up a disproportionate majority of software engineers; a job where working as a team and communicating efficiently are essential. Also, the coercive phrases you provided as examples used to be (and in many places still are) used to force female office workers to wear heels & skirts, smile more, make the coffee, etc. If someone can't provide a concrete reason for why something is actually beneficial, then it's just cult mentality.
Load More Replies... There are team building activities for socializing with coworkers usual the company foots the bill. They should not expect your personal time to be used for company improvement. And by the way what if you were in AA and going to a bar was a big trigger I say you can sue for wrongful termination.
Thank you, that was my thought as well. If someone's in recovery, it would be completely amoral to "expect" them to attend an alcohol-fueled event.
Load More Replies... I gotta side with the OP. You're paid to do a job, not socialize. After spending 8 hours (maybe more) with a group of people you don't feel a connection with, I'd want to go home and chill by myself too.
...hell, after spending 8 hours with people I DO connect with, I frequently want to chill by myself.
Load More Replies... If the office wants to do teambuilding exercises, they need to do it during a scheduled, paid meeting. Otherwise, it is actually illegal to require employees to attend unpaid social functions outside of work hours. The right to assemble includes the right NOT to assemble. Let introverts introvert!
At a previous call center job one female employee complained to HR that other employees didn't greet her when she entered the office. Um, hello, these people are talking on the phone to customers - they don't have time to say, "Hello, how are you this morning? How was your commute? Did you watch that new show last night?"
I'm pretty sure I'm too late. But I don't believe that socializing should be a standard at the job. Office or wherever. Show the fine print on the application or job post. 5 min turns into gossip.(did you see how many shots Karen had last nigh?) Now the whole office is talking. Karen knows it and what can she do about it.
This ^^^ These afterwork events always devolve into back-stabbing whoever isn't there to defend themselves. And HR will refuse to engage with it because it took place "outside work hours at an offsite location". When the drama actually spills over into the workplace, they do damage control by firing the minimum number of people necessary to restore order. If there's 8 bullies picking on 1 victim, the victim gets fired.
Load More Replies... While I agree that it is not lawful to force anybody to participate in after-work events, I really don't agree with the attitude of the woman. I find it oddly ironic that she complains about being an outsider yet makes absolutely not effort to get to know her colleagues. (Yet she has time to make an entire Tik-Tok...hmmm) Yes, small-talk can be annoying and frustrating, however, sometimes it is a necessary part of being part of a team. Communication is paramount to building working relationships. Personally, I would feel a little offended if I took the effort to try to learn about a colleague yet said colleague thought I wasn't worth their time just because we are not friends. Yes, I have a life outside of work and consider myself an ambivert, however, I also understand that there may be times where I have to suck it up and attend an after work event. Sometimes, that small talk can evolve into finding a really neat friend.
I'll pass. I draw a hard line, coworkers are not friends and there will be no interactions outside work hours. I've never accepted a work party invitation that wasn't during work hours. I also won't take part in half the optional team building nonsense during work hours. We aren't a family, we aren't friends. Just leave me alone so I can finish my work and go home.
Load More Replies... Wow. It is a great thing that nobody in the company coaches their kids' sports, or eldercare responsibilities, or a spouse who shouldn't have to do everything solo in the home while you get your drink on. Oh, and what do they get paid for this mandated after-hours work responsibility that apparently is part of the performance review. Nothing? Oh, wow. It is a real mystery what that person didn't jump at the opportunity to participate in that activity vs exercise her autonomy to do whatever she wanted to do with her uncompensated free time! Yeesh... company is lucky she quit because if she had documentation that this was something used against her in performance reviews, I suspect a lawyer could have turned that into a very painful financial lesson for the organization and she could afford to drink with whoever she wanted to after that. Insane.
That is such b******t. You're not paid to be everyones friend. You shouldn't be mandated to be everyones friend. The only mandate should be that you do your job. I would never wanna work for a place that forced me to hang out with people after work. This is a way to exclude people and make sure that your employees have as little a life outside the company as possible
Those comments at the end talking about how you just got to "fit into the work culture" can f**k right off imo. F*****g privileged a*s extroverts have literally everything in this world designed FOR them and then they have the audacity to tell introverts that they just have to suck it up and fit in? F**k that s**t! I am tired of having my financial stability be tied to my ability to pretend I want to be your f*****g extroverted a*s's friend! I am tired of constantly being anxious about losing my job because my boss thinks I am too quiet and therefore not a good "Team Player"... even though I am picking up the slack of all my extroverted coworkers who spend their day doing nothing but socializing to try to climb that corporate ladder! I am tired of constantly being made to feel like I am less of a person because I am quiet! And I am tired of extroverts with frail egos who just can't seem to understand that socializing with their boring unrelatable asses is exhausting!
So if you had addiction issues would they still fire you if you didn't engage in your co workers needs to be f***ked up?
I think that's bull c**p considering upper management rarely shows their face to socialize or get to know their employees. So how can they enforce a rule that they aren't modeling?? Its a frivolous, arbitrary rule because if there's no work to be discussed and you were doing the opposite- just chatting it up all day- they would be complaining about productivity
I had a similar thing happen. First, it is important to know that I am a man. In my first review my supervisor made the complaint that I don't socialize with the others in the office. She then used as her example, "after work, we all go the Curves together. . . " It is also important to know, Curves is a women-only gym.
She's not paid for their social time. She's paid to do a job. What she's does on her time is totally up to her.
What if you have autism and are in the workplace full time like I am? Trying to socialize with others is downright exhausting. I don’t even know many of the rules for interacting with other people. I just have to guess and pray I don’t offend anybody and forgive myself if I happen to. I will say hi if someone says hi to me and act professionally but I don’t go to company picnics, Christmas parties, drinks after work even though I’ve been invited to all those things. I also turn them down even if I’m getting paid to go because crowds make me very uncomfortable. Imagine the anxiety that can come from literally feeling the energies of hundreds of people all at once which is what happens to me. No thank you. I love quiet. I love meditation and I love nature. Workplaces that do this sort of thing are treading a very fine line between what’s okay to do and essentially discriminating against people who are more introverted.
-and you get acquainted become buddy buddy or best friends out of work and then work side by side chit chatting to pass the time it then becomes a problem and boss decides to assign you both different duties
I love spending time talking to people, once spent an hour talking to the greeter at Walmart. But I'll be damned if I'm going to hang out with the people that I work with after work, I spend enough time with them at work as it is. And yes I like almost all of them. If my boss told me I was required to socialize after work I would demand to be paid for it.
I love working & I've always given 100% to my job *while l was on the job*. But, l have a whole life outside of my job. I will go to occasional lunches, weddings, funerals & retirement parties because l do like & respect my colleagues but l don't want to be friends with you. I have a family that l want to be with. I have things l want to enjoy. I need that outside of work in order to be optimal during work time. I am friendly, empathetic, humorous & always pleasant to everyone on my job but l do not gossip or play games. I do not care to work overtime (flex or comptime)so l finish my work in the time allotted (retired Counselor & Clinical Director)
I can't blame her at all. I would never, ever, do an outside of work event. These people are my coworkers, not my friends. I get in early and have my headphones on. My team very well knows that if they want to ask me questions (I mentor two of them) that I can be reached by IM. I don't want people wandering over to my desk. It works just fine.
People at work are normally not your friends. Why hang out with them. I hated socializing when I was working. I had a small group of people I chatted with.
nah. i hated everyone i had to tolerate at work. if you werent paying me i wasnt talking to you
When I punch the clock for lunch or end of the day, I am on MY TIME and who I associate/socialize with will be determined by ME, not my employer nor my co-workers. I just spent eight hours with these people in an environment that can be taxing, stressful, and/or tiring. Most of the stress and frustration I feel during the day, can be associated with the co-workers/associates or people associated with the job in other ways -- customers, suppliers, etc. The only way I want to spend additional time with them is if I get paid for it.
People wonder why marriages are not lasting. Your boss wants you to put your job before your home life. Wow people do have families responsibilities. Pets etc.... And how about just me time before going to bed to wake up and see you all over again.
I am an extrovert. I get very depressed without human interactions. But I believe in keeping personally life separate from business. No one in my work place needs to know anything about my personal life. Everytime I have gotten personally close to co workers it always results in drama. PLUS I DONT DO ANYTHONG THAT BENEFITS THE COMPANY FOR FREE! I once had a manager tell me they all stayed in for lunch. I asked if it was mandatory. If it is mandatory, it is paid. If it is not mandatory, then I dont have to do it. I have had a company want me to leave my young children for a whole weekend out of state for some dumb pow wow. They also wanted me to sleep in the same bed as my co worker or pay for my own room. (I'm bisexuality so I didnt feel comfortable so I didnt go. Everyone that came back said it was a waste of time. I'm a dental hygienist. No matter how extrovert you are, you need a break from people so you can come back and deal with all the complaining people do nowadays.
I see both ends of the spectrum on one hand office jobs are designed with extroverts in mind with a conform or be left behind mentality but on the other hand as an introvert myself I don't want to be made to socialize if im not comfortable with it frankly modern society seems to throw away anyone who is introverted in any way shape or form
Work culture and after work socializing are all part of manipulating workers into doing more for less. They want workers to feel loyal and responsible for a business that will never have loyalty to its employees. I get paid to work, I'm going to work. They aren't my family or friends.
Like it or not, office is not a place for socialising. It’s a place for productive (& collaborative) work that runs the capitalistic machine. Socialisation happens outside of work, ideally over some kind of shared passion or hobbies that have nothing to do with earning money.
If you happen to be on the Autism Spectrum, you could sue. Autism is a recognized disability; and those with it often cannot socialize. Forcing you to do that would go against the ADA in the US.
I doubt it, if you have trouble with socializing why choose a job in marketing?
Load More Replies... I'm a huge extrovert and I don't do out of hours socialising with work people unless they're people who've become friends and we arrange stuff ourselves. If work wants me to give up my precious free time to do work stuff, they better pay me overtime. I organically make friends at work and I spend time with those people. This isn't kindergarten, I don't need to be forced into socialising with people who all I have in common with is the company name in our paycheck. Buy yeah, the opposite of just rushing into work and not speaking to anyone unless you have to is also not great. All the qualifications in the world aren't going to mean s**t if nobody likes you and wants to work with you. Soft skills are finally being recognised as critical to workplaces and anyone who thinks you can just be a task oriented robot and refuse to engage with your teammates at all, is in for a shock.
People can do their share of the work and do it well without knowing fun facts about their coworkers. We're not shocked at all when our evaluations come up and being part of the team is mentioned as something to work on. This isn't becoming an issue, it's always been this way for some of us.
Load More Replies... I think she should have find the place where she fits it. Work is also you small community, you spend most productive 40 hours in there of your week. It is nice to get to know people around you and learn about them. I can also be introverted, but it is important to have fun at work too. Also you can put her colleagues in your shoes imagining that you come to work and someone sitting next to you, hating everything and saying I am not being paid to talk with you.
If a coworker came in and said that to me I would laugh and say same. And then proceed not to talk to them for the next eight hours because I too hate small talk. Not everyone is extroverted. For many neurodivergent people like myself, performing social interactions is tiring.
Load More Replies... this also seems like one is to be punished for having social anxiety i myself feel strong anxiety whenever im expected to make small talk with strangers
This kind of horrorshow is the result of most humans being too obsessed with their own egos to function without forcing everyone else to acknowledge their presence, or better yet bask in awe, Has it occurred to any of you social types that the reason we don’t want to engage in small talk is.because you are painfully boring? Largely because you rarely think about anything besides yourself, your status, and socializing. You’re trying to STARVE normal people into socializing with you, disgusting.
And yes, I consider the majority today to be abnormal. If everyone else was torturing cats, that wouldn’t make it normal.
Load More Replies... Your employer does not have the right to tell you what you can & can't do in your free time. I had a similar problem (back in the 90's, when I was trying really hard to quit drinking) and told my boss that if I was going to be paid for the "overtime" I would be happy to attend, but if not maybe they should consider having catered lunches (on the clock) instead. I mean if you are required to be at a work function, that's on their dime, right?
I don't mix my personal and professional life. I don't socialize with coworkers. I don't add them on social media. There's literally no good reason to. I can be personable and nice at work, but I'm not getting paid to be their friends or invest emotional energy or off-the-clock time in them.
Teamwork is highly overrated. I've had coworkers steal my ideas and take credit for my work. I've also had coworkers blame me for their mistakes. Of course I couldn't say anything because the coworkers that did these acts are usually good liars and great at kissing a** and have been there longer. Who do you think my boss would have believed if I said anything? Would it even have mattered if he believed me since he likes the offending coworker more? I've also been sexually harassed and bullied and, when I did say something to my bosses, either nothing was done or I was fired. Here's something else I noticed about socializing at college. When I took completely online classes, and never met my teachers or classmates, my GPA was 4.0. I was graded solely on MY WORK. When I started attending classes, my grades really started to suffer. I learned that I work better alone and I prefer it that way. If my employers can't understand that, then they're simply not worth working for. What some may call introverted or antisocial, I call self-defense. You can't get hurt if you don't play the stupid games in the first place.
Companies can't try to make you spend your free time after work socialising. Some people just aren't social and thats okay. You can't make someone change their personality because you want to get good 'happy hour' pictures for your business's instagram page. Free time is free time, your work has no say on that. 'Work Culture' is all well and good but you don't have to force your employees to spend extra time with each other to achieve that.
Ah, workplace sOciALizing! What a cute euphemism for providing ammo to backbiting bastards. I'm the most extroverted introvert you'll ever meet, but that should not suggest i don't know exactly which way the wind blows. "We're a happy family" horseshıt almost always devolves into palace intrigue. Can't these soul-sucking companies admit that it's enforced fun and call it a day? Just tack a sign above the mission statement reminding everyone that Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves.
That’s weird HR gave her a choice. If she’s not a fit then she’s not a good fit, it’s not her fault it just is. Did they thing putting her on the spot would make her more social!? HR was unprofessional imo either tell the coworkers that complained to stop being petty or tell the woman you have to let her go with a recommendation. 🤷🏻♀️
Presenting that choice only set them up for a wrongful termination lawsuit; they're very lucky she quit. Even in "at will" states, if you provide a reason for firing them and that reason is illegal (such as requiring them to do something well outside the bounds of their job duties) then you've violated labor laws
Load More Replies... Has anyone ever noticed that the people complaining that you don't talk to them don't talk to you either? People I work with won't even look at me when I walk by.. they won't even make eye contact. Then they all socialize and ignore me.. if they want to talk to me they can.. the problem is they don't then they complain I don't talk to them.. how does that work? So you don't talk to me and you ignore me and if I try to talk to you you shun me and make me feel unwelcome so I stop trying then you complain about me that I don't talk to you? YOU DONT TALK TO ME, FOOL! people are such hypocrites.. you don't talk to someone and you ignore them then complain they don't talk to you? This is bullying.. work place harrassment... abusive toxic work place culture.. stop pretending this isn't reality. They want you to come over and try to fit in so they can reject you.. I've been dealing with this my whole life so I stopped trying. Now I'm the bad guy because I don't try. guess what, they don't try
The truth is they want you to feel small. They want you to worship them like Gods and they hate you for not brown nosing them.. they want to be mean to you just because they have the power.. we should seriously get rid of all authorities.. it's bad for people. It makes them horrible. They will openly say out loud in front of everyone how they enjoy bossing people around. These people are not leaders.. they are poison to your company.. get rid of them.. they are bot boosting production they are making everyone quit and why your company isn't growing and will never grow.. no one wants to deal with this much bs all day at work.. it's like these social people come to work with a wheelbarrow full of bs then scoop it on your lap and make you push it around on the floor with your nose all day. No one wants to deal with that.. we just want to do our work and go home.. if we have anything to say we will say it and if you want to talk to us we will talk but we don't want to be obligated to be fa
Load More Replies... This is such a major problem at work places and everyone pretends that what I'm about to say isn't true.. there are cliques in work places.. those are the people who talk to each other. If you try to talk to them they will turn their back on you and ignore you. Then they will complain about you and say you're quiet and you don't talk to anyone.. they form little cliques and you're not allowed to join the conversation.. they meet in their little secret place and whisper to each other.. probably about you because you aren't there and now you're not one of the cool people because you aren't over there talking to them.. trust me when I say this.. you are not allowed to talk to them.. if you try they will embarrass you and without saying so yhe vibe will be that no one wants to talk to you, you weren't invited and this is a private conversation. But your reputation at the company will be that you are quiet and anti social.. this is a form of bullying.. work shouldn't be a game of survivor..
I remember for a stage (unpaid internship where they're not expected to hire you at the end, archaic way of learning skills without actually being able to get your foot in the door just so they can use a legal loophole to not pay/hire you), at the end I was told that they wanted me to socialize more. But I was only there for 3 weeks (the length of my stage). I didn't know anyone else there outside of the people in our department. I can do small talk just fine, (heck, I was raised to do so) but I didn't like that their idea was that I take time out of my time there, and instead of working on important and time-sensitive projects, I just randomly go up to people in other departments, interrupt their work as well, and chat away. I was perfectly friendly during lunch hours and anytime I passed people by, but I don't see the point interrupting my own work and the work of others, just to chit-chat with strangers I won't see ever again after a couple weeks. I also find it funny, and legitimately wonder if they got the comments for our end reviews mixed up, that they told me that and not my stage mate, who always kept to herself and never said hello or anything to anyone else.
My son-in-law said he's sorry if people have a cra**y life and don't want to go home but he can't wait to get home to his family.
Just tell them you don't drink because of medication you have to take for a chronic congenital illness. People tend to back off after that. Seriously though...companies that promote this culture are unhealthy; it's bringing all the worst parts of high school into adulthood, with cliques and popular groups, stereotypes, and so forth. I don't like it, and I won't be part of it. Period.
First, if it wasn't in your job description, management can't force you to do it. Second, continue working, continue not attending after work soirees and get fired. Third, Apply for Unemployment and sue the company for unlawful firing. (See #1) Fouth, Get a different job that have sane management Fifth, live happily ever after ;)
I work I the construction field. In my position I do purchasing and accounting. When I get to work I don't have headphones on. I greet everyone with a smile and say good morning. I try to take interest when I see my co-workers. The reason why I spend 8hrs-plus with them Mon-Fri they are like a 2nd family. In order to make sure we trust each other and work as a team you have to have a little socialization. Not saying you have to be in your co-workers business, but make an effort to get to know them a little. In my job I normally am focus at my work the whole day but I do talk to my co-workers and supers. I find it is easier to get things done when you are social and they are more understanding if you can't make happy hour. When I clock out I am solely about my family. Don't get me wrong my family comes 1st I will walk out of a job if force to choose. But I know walking into work I am in work mode. I do what I need to make sure I provide for my family.
Sounds like you enjoy that. Some of us are in fields where we can essentially do our jobs solo with minimal required interaction with others and like it that way. To each their own.
Load More Replies... Some of us introverts have serious mental issues that are worsen by interacting with people. It physically makes me sick to speak to some people. Don't say I should go back to school and enter a different career field. Did that once and everything got worse. If someone doesn't talk to you unless it's work related, don't talk to them unless it's work related. I guess this is what happened when kids with helicopter parents and participation trophies became adults. Also had to stop reading comments to try and explain things to people who don't understand This will always be a problem in the work place because people are people and we're different from each other.
Outside of work time is your time. Period. I have However worked with a communications person who was fairly similar to what's described and was not getting the nuances of what we do or our work culture. And they didn't know they were missing the mark. They needed to spend more time with others doing to work (during work time) to get it.
I'll probably get down voted for this, but some fields of work require communication and even state that for the roles they are hiring on job sites. It sounds like she'd be happier working from home or in a job were it's not much of a requirement and there is nothing wrong with that.
Well, it might be so, but is irrelevant. At a job you sell your time for money. This is a nonrenewable, finite resource. When the demand for such a resource grows, the price goes up, not down. Her company are effectively just cheapskates, forcing her for a discount.
Load More Replies... Work is never just about work. If people like you, you're more likely to be put on interesting projects and get promoted because people like giving opportunities to people that they like. Being antisocial just because you're an introvert is career limiting and I say this as an introvert.
Potentially self-limiting your promotion opportunities is a VERY different consequence than being threatened with termination. Where did OP complain about being denied advancement? They just wanted to do their job. Don't soften the facts of this story to push an irrelevant narrative.
Load More Replies... Yeah I'm on the fence here. I certainly wouldnt work for anyone that wanted me to socialize outside of work or participate in exorbitant group activities but just as a human being a culture of simple courtesies and friendliness doesn't seem ridiculous. Obviously this isnt a fireable offense but we do tend to talk alot about being introverted to the point it may be toxic. Humans thrive as social creatures. In a work environment with group efforts and support, wouldn't it be better for your own mental health to have some positive relationships
As mentioned, she has a life outside work which probably means social life. Just excludes co-workers. As for work environment, debatable because trying to force yourself to have positive relationships you had no desire to have or maintain is draining and exhausting.
Load More Replies... I struggle to understand how anyone can think this woman is in the wrong! She’s paid to go to work and do her damn job, that’s it. She’s not being rude by not wasting company time on the (usually mindless bull&@£t) drivel that makes up “office chat” If the company want more of her time outside of office hours then they can pay her for it!
When I was an admin, I found out that being part of the "socialize after work" group turned me into everyone's therapist. I should have started charging for my time, because some of them would park themselves in my cubicle and drone on forever. I switched to IT and didn't look back.
I'm an extroverted introvert. At least is how I perceive myself. From the outside I seem very confident and extraverted, but in reality I get very anxious about socializing with people, have trouble sleeping over things I said and did and hate myself all the time. So... when our work does extracurricular stuff, usually everyone expects me to be the heart of the party, but I am just not. I mean, I will be if I must attend, but I would rather skip it. Thanks God I am good at my job, because my boss has never said I must attend something or I'll get fired. I would have walked right out of there, no looking back. Being chummy with your coworkers and spending you off time with them is not your job, they are not allowed to force you to it!
What they really meant was if she didn't get drunk and sleep with them after work then they were going to fire her for not "socializing" with them. Much like how I got fired from the Celtic Tavern for not responding to the new owner who was sexually harassing me and he fired me for refusing to sleep with him and then had the audacity to hire a new female and SHE had the audacity to tell me that I was too sexual at work which was the biggest lie and the biggest insult from the little prick who didn't even have the balls to fire me himself.
He sent me pictures of himself wearing nothing but a sock down "there"and tried to kiss me twice when I was restocking liquor bottles and I politely sidestepped him and then chose to leave work early (aka midnight instead of 2am) because he bet one of the cooks that he would sleep with me by the end of the weekend and then invited himself over to my home after work so I left early and said I wasnt feeling well and was going home to lay beside my boyfriend and get some rest. The next day at work he came in and apologized for sexually harassing me while drunk at work and I told him not to worry about it and to forget it and then a few hours later got drunk and tried to offer me a line of coke off the office desk upstairs which I politely declined and then he told me he was turning the tavern into a swingers club and I needed to get on board since he was the owner and he bought the bar so he could f**k the bartenders whenever he wanted to while staying drunk 24/7. I was like no thank you.
Load More Replies... As a person "On the Spectrum" as it is commonly known, I get very uncomfortable with small talk. My mind does not work in the same direction as most people, and crowded situations really bother me. I am blessed that I have a job that allows me to not be
I worked for corporate America for 30 years. Some bosses insisted upon "after hours" socialization, some bosses actually had a life and respected mine. I worked with predominately men who never worried about things like doing laundry, picking up kids, taking care of the household chores, cooking meals as they all had wives or girlfriends who did it for them. I was a single mom and the father to my kids was not in the picture. Plus I had classes to get my degree after work. I didn't have time to be social, I don't drink with co-workers and I couldn't afford a babysitter. Working from home is the best thing in the world! I accomplished more for my company while working from home in one day than I would accomplish in a week going to the office.
Im with op on this one. Unpaid extracurricular activities should not be mandatory. Im here for a job and i work for this business for pay, by the hour. If im on salary, then these activies better be a) listed in my contract & b) legit work time. As in covered by the companies insurance. If i sprain my ankle because u diks made me play football with a bunch of people i dont like, then u guys can pay for it like the workplace injury it legally is. Further, if i have to socialise with these people, do the companies hr policies apply? Can i be fired for expressing an opinion that does not adhere to my companies core values, ON MY FREE TIME FOR WHICH I AM NOT GETTING PAID???? Op company must be ok with l8 night msgs about pay issues, disagreements turning into huge conflicts and the like. Professionals get paid to do work, not drink beers and watch hockey, so idk whats going on there, sounds like a bunch of frat boys out of their depth. Or maybe a cult. Ya, probly a cult.
Quit a job with a phone company because of this exact thing. They wanted me to hang out after hours for so called bonding at the owners house. It took me four days to quit. Never went to the owner's house. Btw one of my employees revealed that his girlfriend broke up with him because he worked to much. That was revealed to me on the first day him.
If I was told this, I would quit, but file for unemployment. And, I would get it. A company has no right whatsoever to dictate what you do outside of work hours.
Look I'm social as hell at work, but i don't hang out with my coworkers outside of work and I'd quit too if it was a required thing. I want to chill with my actual friends and my family, not see my coworkers when I'm not getting paid.
I do kinda miss the job I had where my manager insisted I had "the evil eye". It was refreshing to be told "don't look at me!"
FU CK THESE SH IT GOBBLING THUNDERCUNTS. AIN'T NOBODY PAYING ME ENOUGH TO CHIT CHAT WITH YOUR DONKEY A SS. TAKE YOUR SMALL TALK AND SHOVE IT UP YOUR BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE! BUT THOLE!
I’ve never been a drinker. Social get togethers we’re just for them to get drunk together. Made me think less of them as they were ugly and stupid when drunk.
If you're acknowledging your coworkers politely and working efficiently, then, why must you be subjected to after work socializing? Happy hour? What if you don't drink alcohol or go to bars? Small talk? A lot of times small talk turns into an interrogation. There's absolutely no need for you to ask me any personal questions that are none of your business and vice versa. Yes, we can talk occasionally but if I have no interest in standing by your cubicle or desk for a chat, your problem is? As long as she's not being overtly rude and dismissive, where's her obligation to hang out with people she's already spent most of her day with? Seriously, people need to get over themselves and stop looking for reasons to harass and aggravate others.
Honestly, I just don't think this job was a good fit for her. Don't get me wrong – I think it's pretty ridiculous to try and force her to socialize, especially when it's clear it makes her uncomfortable, but I do also think she could have done a little more to fit in and get along with her co-workers. I know it's not how it really SHOULD be, in an ideal world, but it is how it is. Especially when greeting people when you come in for the day – just saying hi, how are you, how was your weekend, do anything fun or just relax? – that sorta stuff. It makes you feel more friendly and approachable, for both work and non-work related things. You don't have to be best friends, but you should do your best to be friendly and thoughtful when you can. I also hate to say this, but that's often how you get places in the workforce. Socializing is a softer term for "networking." You might ask your co-workers for a good word in the future, especially when looking for better job prospects. (1/8)
Life is, and never will be, perfectly fair. Sure, we can strive towards a fairer world, do our best to even the playing fields for everyone, but there's only so much we can do at the end of the day. Sometimes things aren't ideal, and it really is NOT fair, and that can be upsetting, because of course it is, but it's also something that everyone has to experience on some level. I don't think that job was a good fit for that girl – her management sounded shitty, and her ideals simply were not aligning with her colleagues. I think it's for the best she left, but I hope she can also learn from the experience and try a little bit harder in the future to be more open and kind to her co-workers, and hopefully prevent her from getting such an ultimatum ever again. (8/8)
Load More Replies... Each work environment has its own culture and, with that, come the expectations of that workplace culture. It's not a universal right or wrong- but if this places culture was very social, engaging and relational then that is the standard across the board, period. If that's not for you, then that's not the job for you but dont act as if it's the workplaces responsibility to curtail itself to your preference... Find a place that shares your values, ideals and preference when it comes to culture, but don't badmouth another place because it's not what you like
It feels like we’re missing a large part of this story or the appropriate wording that was used from her office as most labour laws would immediately kick in if someone was fired for this. I would almost bet that she was told that she needs to be more involved in the team and if she can’t this maybe isn’t the best fit for her. The fact that believes that people don’t really need to interact with other areas in her office, shows a larger issue.
Sounds like a toxic hellhole ran by the popular kids from high school that never left home and have had intertwined lives for quite some time
I can't believe this is even legal considering it's after hour personal time. What if someone has a drinking problem they're dealing with and would rather not be around alcohol considering bars are usually where workers What to go to after-work. Was mandatory after hours recreation stated on her contract? Seems so odd to me. Work life balance. What if she had kids and a single mom needing to be home with kid after work and school. Inside the office, absolutely be kind and pleasant to work with. I hope she puts her experience on Glassdoor. Seems like the group was harassing her when she didn't want to associate outside of a work atmosphere? I'd report them for contract violation if u were fired for this only issue. We live in weird times. Whatever happened to no fraterazion within a company. Mayne I'm not getting the whole picture but it sounds ridiculous. Find acjob that respects your right to have a life outside of work. Craziness
I agree that your free time is your free time. If part of the job requirement is going to these events then they should make that clear in the interview process. Also, they would have to pay me for my time. The one truly non-renewable resource you have is your time, so it is extremely valuable.
This doesn't seem like an issue of trust within the company. It seems like it's 100% an issue of extroverted leadership completely not comprehending how introverts function. And if your immediate thought is that "they have to get over their shyness," then you also do not comprehend introverts. For introverts, even completely elementary interactions can be very difficult and distracting. Even something stupid like small talk about the weather can cause an introvert to be stuck thinking about it for hours after; going over the interaction in their head and reflecting on how they did in the conversation. It's very distracting and takes a ton of energy and effort. Since introverts know this is going to happen, they tend to intentionally pick and choose their battles. They've developed their own personal brand of social interaction that is super refined and efficient for balancing proper social relationships and the work that is required of them.
Why didn't she wait and get terminated and then enjoy all the lawsuit money??
I'm gonna throw this in: the OP was in the wrong job. Wrong on her side cause she felt like an outsider. Wrong on the job's side cause sh*t you can't get fired for not socializing, esp. after job hours. That's an example of poor leadership & poor management trying to pose as good leadership. The weird thing here is that IME marketing girls are so good at socializing, assembling work groups, and bringing fresh ideas into the office, that I dare to say that the OP just didn't fit in from the beginning. Whether we like it or not, work is a social sphere in our lives; I also despiss after-hours gatherings, cause they are unpaid office time (tell me I'm wrong). But shoot, you gotta connect with the people, OK not at a personal level, it's not like you gotta be the office vixen, always grabbing attention, but (quoting Amy Farrah Fowler) unless you can upload your sentient being into a self-sustained low-orbit satellite, you gotta socialize. I do perceive toxic work culture in the place, ...
Such as straight belongings and clique culture, but I'd encourage the OP to try to fit in a little more. I also defend my personal time, sword in hand, but I mean, it's rather easy to get along with most people.
Load More Replies... Truth is, you'll see more of your colleagues than anyone else during a week. You spend 8 hours a day at work, another 8 hours (more or less) sleeping. And another 8 hours that are in part used for waking up, preparing for work, travel to and from work, cooking, cleaning and then maybe you have a little time left to do some hobbies, or text with a friend (or if you have a family spend time with them). And you may not find time for your friends until the weekend. So during the week most social interaction we have is with our colleagues. That's why extroverted colleagues will want to have chitchat and develop friendships among each other because they don't want to be lonely. It's what makes people like to come to work in the morning. It's so much more than just "doing your job". A fun and friendly environment can make most people also like the job they do. Maybe less good for productivity, but definitely good for the motivation of people. For introverts this is a problem.
And as most people in an office tend to be extroverted or at least ambivert this social interaction is important. In an office where the boss is hard against this people will be less motivated, or even fall into depression which can lead to all kinds of physical problems and sick leave more, which is much worse for productivity than having moments of chitchat. For an introvert you'll just have to either try to blend in or find a job that requires no social interaction, or allows you to maybe even work from home so you won't have more contact with colleagues than absolutely necessary. You don't have to join happy hours. But you'll just have to try and understand that for your colleagues social interaction is what keeps them motivated to do their work too, which makes them much more productive than if they wouldn't have that interaction. As an introvert you'll have to find the balance between team and work or find work that fits better with you. And I don't like small talk either myself (although I am not introverted, I hate the "how are you?" question as people are rarely ever truly interested and expect "fine, and you?" in return). But I do it anyway because it's so much better than an unhealthy work environment where only "hello" and most necessary communication is shared. Been there. That company didn't thrive because everyone was depressed and moody. I actually got a burnout myself from working there.
Load More Replies... You don't have to socialize with co-workers outside of work. And I definitely am not the one to chat with co-workers on my commute or join every after-work. But, I do think some small talk is expected to work better together so I get that expectation. It's easier to ask work related questions if you feel like someone is "approachable" and small talk is a way of showing people that. And taking of your head phones to say "good morning" to the receptionist is common curtesy imo.... you don't have to be friends (I'm definitely not) but you sort of do need to be friendly.
Used to work for a company that had *forced* team building events that involved wearing a bright yellow t-shirt, so we looked like frigging minions. I didn't like the majority of the team so would find excuses to not be part of the degradation. I'm there to do a job, not be your friend.
I swear to God, so many people here in the US don't understand us introverts. I should not be forced to undergo small talk with people who aren't friends and family. It's awkward and annoying to me. I have no problems with more substantive and urgent discussions, but small talk is a waste of my time. I, as an introvert, should not be forced to cater to the needs of extroverts just because they dominate our society. End of story!
Leave me alone during my breaks and lunch. And after work? Not a chance. I go home. But when I'm at work, I talk to, and socialize with all of my coworkers. And I'm an introvert. This woman actually sounds like she just doesn't like people.
I don't socialize with all of my coworkers, and I don't dislike people. I socialize with SOME of my coworkers, but most I just talk about work with, if I talk at all. There doesn't have to be some great dislike of people to just want to put your head down and work. If you re-read, she says that the majority of the people her bosses want to force her to socialize with aren't even in the same department as she is. They literally have nothing to talk about. And being constantly pushed to violate her own privacy frankly isn't going to make her WANT to talk to them ever.
Load More Replies... I work in the same industry as her, and marketing in that field is all about making contacts and networking with others in the industry even if they are in your own office. I'm seriously surprised to see that there is some sort of mental block as to importance of networking for career advancement, etc. Seriously, has no one told her how the game is played, and if she doesn't feel like playing, fine, but don't complain when players don't want you. And I say this as somebody whose had many many years of work experience, these are lessons that I learned, not things I knew off the bat. I feel like she could benefit from some career counseling, because a lot of work life isn't always about the work. Clearly the culture at the place she was working at wasn't the right fit for her and vice versa and that counseling could probably help her figure out what would be a better fit for her.
She wasn't complaining that "the players don't want her," she was complaining that they DID, thanks. Frankly, from what she described, it sounded cliquish AF, and probably sexist if not misogynistic. The kind of place where no networking was ever actually going to take place, just a lot of gaslighting.
Load More Replies... She is right, as an ENFJ, even I would respect her level of socialization and not push it. She also correct that IT and engineering employees are like her. My son is that type, INTP. Leave me to my work, if I want to chat, I'll chat. He is HFA Aspergers Syndrome which is part of it. I asked him what he thought of Sarah's issue. He said it should never be forced especially outside of work, because they aren't paying for those 2 hours and they are not paying for a small meal or drinks. During work, especially in teams, of course, being on topic and discussing work is ok. Leave her alone. If she wants to know how the weather is, she can look outside or click an app.
I agree that you have to be careful who you talk to and what the topic is. 3 years ago I told a couple "trusted" people about my wife being pregnant, and one day other people were asking me about it even though I had asked not to spread it around. We were still in the early phase and wanted to make sure the pregnancy didn't go wrong before spreading the news. From then on I didn't share anything personal anymore.
I am on the autism spectrum and had just discovered I was at age 48. I have trouble socializing, but if my employers wanted something done properly and on time, they could count on me to do the job. To the point where I was doing other people's work too, because they were busy gadding about and gossiping about other people instead of their job. So the socially-awkward lady who could be easily manipulated through guilt eventually became the one who had to do the jobs. I hate the office culture, do why would I want to interact with these people after hours.Not my idea of R&R. Now I work for myself, and I love it!
Never had an office job where I didn't sleep with a coworker. I definitely make a better field worker. 😛
I'm not much of a socializer either and definitely don't do after work get togethers. However, I do the occasional pop in their offices and ask how's it going, family doing okay etc. Sometimes just to share some research info I read somewhere maybe. If it's a toxic team, I will do the bare minimum, attend meetings, but get together is harmful for your mental stability and prolong your expore to the negativity. It would be a hell no. Unless your contract says you need to offer up personal time with toxic colleagues. Otherwise walking in with headphones is a bit unprofessional and sends its own message. At work I would suggest make a bit more of an effort to " hang with the peeps" type of thing just so they get to know you. Some people have a legitimate disability regarding socializing and if you are fired because of it, it can cost a company. Otherwise your time away from work remains your own.
So what message would you take from my entire team having headphones in and only talking via IM? Verbal communication is pretty much unnecessary in the office. Email and IM are fine. I've gone many a day without saying a word out loud to anyone.
Load More Replies... I worked in a regional construction company, but project teams were usually 6-12 people depending on the size of the building. I'd attend the monthly birthday happy hour for the region that was usually about 30 people including the VP to build relationships with people I might work with someday. However, during an annual review, my direct boss told me that I needed to eat lunch with my project team. I shouldn't have to explain that it's the only time during my 10+ hour day to make personal phone calls, run errands, etc. In the end, he liked his lunch bunch better than me and guess who got laid off when the economy tanked? Well, at least I hadn't wasted my money going to lunch with them. I should also mention that I was the only female PM in the region, so the only woman in my project team.
Did the firm pay for drinks? If not, the boss has no standing to have an opinion. This is clearly an extremely toxic workplace. I can't think of a more effective way to create a hostile and intimidating work atmosphere. I hope the firm goes belly-up.
Small talk? No way! Blathering my opinion to millions all over social media, well that's just fine with her! And actually, social media is the smallest talk of all.
She chose to make a post, and she chose not to engage in small talk at work. I see no issue there. Trying to set rules for when she should speak is exactly the problem.
Load More Replies... Sara is probably on the spectrum and feels weird around people. I would welcome a mixer once a week but more than that, probably no. If you like the people around you It makes your day better. Time flies and it's always nice to expand your circle of friends if you talk to people long enough you find things in common.
What Sara is, is an employee forced to do overtime without pay. I do not mind meeting people from the office outside of office, when I and they feel like it. But under a threat? Oh, that is gonna do wonders for the rapport!
Load More Replies... I regular prepare food and meals for my co-workers ends we sit and eat together. A team that gets along is happier, more cohesive, and far more productive than a team that just simply works and goes home.
The team will be absolutely thrilled when you make them socialise under a threat of losing their job, right?
Load More Replies... Isn't a position in marketing about... marketing? Which means making connections to people through your marketing campaigns? Which might be more effective if you knew the people you were marketing for as well as to? Marketing and advertising type jobs ARE social jobs right..? I'm not saying force yourself to be social. But if social expectations aren't okay with you then steer clear of the jobs that require "who you know" over "what you know." I am pretty introverted and only have a very small group of friends (literally maybe 6 people) and I don't normally socialize outside of that group... which is why I wouldn't take a job where socializing - even "business lunches" - is required. Don't get in your own way.
Marketing job descrption: monitor market trends, create advertising campaigns, develop pricing strategies and targeting strategies based on demographic data. Where's the socialzing? You're thinking of sales.
Load More Replies... Its not required like in Japan. Sounds like they wanted to smash and get a foot in
IMO First, you need to start acknowledging your co workers upon arrival as its’s very unprofessional of you. It doesn’t mean you have to carry on a conversation, just an acknowledgment in passing. If you are doing your job without being written up for some infraction, Meet with your employer, have your phone on record and discuss the situation. If during this meeting he threatens to fire you, just say you understand and end the meeting. Then consult an attorney to discuss matter as they are creating a hostile work environment against you and you would have the recording. You may not want to keep your job after this, but it may result in a reprimand and fine for them and compensation for you while looking for new employment. If this action is taken, they won’t be able to give you a bad recommendation.
Keeping to yourself at work all the time comes off as negative. Negativity is contagious just as much as having a positive outlook is. Being approachable is especially important in the workplace environment, because your co-workers are your teammates. If you have a job where your role is very solitary, little to no interaction with your co-workers then there's no reason to build a relationship. Emailing, Skyping, teleconferencing, they also require some level of interaction. You shouldn't be obligated to go to every after work function, but at least show some effort that not only can you be a team player but that you can do it without being cynical.
Yeah, no. Forcing me to try is what MAKES me cynical. Back off, give me some goddamn space, and I will eventually open up some. It shouldn't be on ME to "make the effort," it should be on the workplace to be supportive enough that employees feel safe. Besides, she literally says that her job DOESN'T need much interaction with the people that are whinging that she's not socializing with them.
Load More Replies... Those whining about having to be social should find a job that can make the most of your antisocial ways. The problem is once you become a manager or boss, you lose the ability to know your employees. I’ve worked for people like that and it’s horrible. Everyone is antisocial nowadays, until they get on social media then they become a posting sharing twit. I remember the good old days where to do anything you had to network, with real live people. All this getting on social media to complain to complete strangers makes me wonder why you can complain to all of us in detail, but not at least get to know those you work with. Just saying.
I've never seen someone whine so much about the existence of whiners. It's so hypocritical, that I wonder if it's actually just satirical performance art.
Load More Replies... I’m tired of people using the “introvert” tag to support being rude. At least say hi without skipping past people with your headphones in. Jeez. I’m an introvert, but I’ll still push myself out there to be pleasant to people. I’ll go to morning teas and chat about whatever is going. I’d rather not, but being distant and aloof isn’t great for the workplace as a whole. Just put your big girl pants on and be a decent human being that at least appears approachable. No one wants to be at work, but at least having a friendly atmosphere helps everyone cope, even introverts. But please, stop justifying your rudeness with the “oh I’m just an introvert” freaking excuse. It’s not cool. Don’t be rude
You seem like the guy who thinks like a switch. If someone doesn't like you, they MUST hate you. When in reality, they don't give you a second thought and it drives you up the wall. The world is not 1 and 0's like a machine. The story, she did the minimal interaction need for her work, you're trying to twist it as if she threw up middle fingers when she pass her coworkers because she didn't want to do more.
Load More Replies... Skip the headphones and say hello, that's weird. But after work, stop trying to monopolize people's time. It's mostly to make it harder for you to leave. Work doesn't equal life.
A smile and a wave is a perfectly legitimate non-verbal greeting. It's weird that people are getting so bent out of shape over not hearing a made-up nonsense word come out of someone's mouth even thought that person IS greeting people in another fashion.
Load More Replies... I too don't like interacting with other people, it's somewhat of a chore. I would at most say hello and respond to them, not initiating any conversations. Besides, who actually wears headphones at work? Will there come a day when news like The Onion are no longer mere sources of entertainment? Yeah, no, that's not happening, forget about it.
Pretty much everyone in my office has their headphones on all day at work. This is not unusual.
Load More Replies... How do you work in marketing and avoid the people you were hired to marker for?
By asking them for what you need to know from them. She doesn't need to know how Bob in design was threw up during Happy Hour drinking. Marketing also rarely need social interaction, they need data that can be provided since right now, a computer is collecting data on you as you surf the net without asking how your day was.
Load More Replies... (Even as someone who's a huge fan of antiwork, and hates corporations and such) I feel like people have to understand that there are several elements to a job, and they all have to suit you in order to be successful. A job isn't just doing the work. There's also workplace culture, goals & ethics, and the dress code, for example. You're def not obligated to do anything after work hours, however, it was part of the culture before *you* got there, and it messes up the flow if you're indifferent. It means that particular job isn't for you, and you just need to move on to a different one that suits you
If participating in an established workplace culture is an essential part of the job, then it's the employer's responsibility to be upfront with that requirement in interviews and write it into the contract. Trying to coerce someone into participating after the fact is toxic and unprofessional. Also, you shared mutually exclusive opinions: you can't say that someone isn't obligated to participate, and also say they aren't suitable for the job if they decline; if declining means they should quit, then it IS an obligation.
Load More Replies... I am reading a lot of these comments and the general attitude is "it's all about me, I don't need to talk to you, I don't need to care about you." Its an all about me attitude. When you pass anyone, you give them the same courtesy you would give anyone else. Since I care about you as a person... I would take off my head phones, smile, look at you in the eye, and say good morning. Please be open to others... The "I" generation is really wrong about this. On the other hand, you cannot force someone to have manners or be social... Maybe the worker will find another place where she fits in a little more.
Sorry but if you, as a stranger or someone I have no particular connection to, expect me to take off my headphones to talk to you that's delusional. The fact that I have them on should be the clue that I have absolutely no interest in talking to anyone. That's kind of the point.
Load More Replies... Most top level business is done at parties and after hours social events where buddies and friendly people get contacts before strangers at arms length do.
Maybe she should rethink her career choice: marketing is built on small talk, chit chat, and social skills. Marketing for any big firm is 150% a people job. If you're not social, it is NOT for you. Also, if you're the only one who doesn't like the way a place is, stop being selfish and demanding everyone else please you. World doesn't revolve around you buttercup. I abhor chit chat and socializing but understand that some situations you just got to put on your big kid pants and get over yourself.
Can you tell me how her going out with her colleagues and drinking after work tie into her work, and if you do small talk it should not be about work since the it isn't "small talk" but work talk.
Load More Replies... Fts! keep to yourself, and away from me. I want none of your drama
I just think that it's important to be a bit social and approachable regardless if you hate ppl at work be professional be friendly try to lighten the mood and I do feel a little out of work socialization is important to better know and understand each other and it may even be a relief or a way for many to vent work and home unburden oneself but of coarse their should be some limitation but completely skipping happy hour or small talk can come of as stuckup snobbish rude to many so I can see that to avoid this id say just stay 5 minutes say a word or two or wish everyone a good night instead of walking straight out the door. so in any case if it's that big a deal to the company then they should probably test ppl personalities before hiring or ask questions such as would you call yourself social or anti social do you enjoy small talk. The big problem which is ridiculous in regards to these kinda standards that companies claim they care about I'd that the moment that your coworkers and
There's a difference between her "keep interaction to minimal" to your "I hate you and this job" impression.
Load More Replies... Lol, this nonsense that's an excuse for forced conformity. No thanks.
Load More Replies... She just sounds really self centered. There's nothing wrong with being cordial, even friendly, with coworkers during work hours. I wonder how she'd feel if the tables were reversed. She should look for a remote job that doesn't entail interacting with others.
How is being introverted and having nothing in common with colleagues self-centered? She specifically said she was friendly, she just didn't seek out conversations.
Load More Replies... Communication with other humans can be learned, but you need practice. Sometimes things feel uncomfortable, and you may need to face that head on. You DON'T need to be friends. You DO need to learn how civilized adults communicate. Otherwise, you are going to alienate yourself and others. To hide yourself from other people is to hide yourself from life. IMHO.
The patented, just force yourself to do it. Make small meanigless worthless talk with the people that you're dont like or hate as your physical body get exhausted from forced interaction. It'll get better and the less uncomfortable approach. That completely ignores the reasons why introvert are introverted. By definition,. they enjoy spending time with one or two people, not large groups of crowds. We find it physically exhausting to be in crowd and it doesn't change how often you try to force it. This isn't some kind of exercise where you build up muscle after being exhausted by forcing yourself to do something.
Load More Replies... People that I have nothing in common with... Maybe spend some time trying to know them better? It's a rare occurrence that I cannot find anything that we can relate to with a new person in my life.
She has no reason to want to though. These aren't her friends.
Load More Replies... Your coworkers aren't robots. It is exceedingly rude to treat them like they should be. It is quite telling, in a negative way, if someone, firstly, chooses to never do anything they aren't comfortable with or doesn't come 'naturally' to them, and secondly, doesn't try to at least become professionally pleasant and familiar with the people sharing the work world they spend half their waking hours in. It's good she quit, because she was likely on her way to being fired.
I tend to be a solitary introvert who really doesn't mind not talking to anyone for days on end. However, I think that the lady is acting quite inappropriately here, at least if I have understood correctly that she has not engaged with her colleagues at least a little so far. Does she hate/despise her colleagues so much that she doesn't want to come along at least occasionally for lunch? Is she just that insecure? Or is she just so self-centred that she doesn't want to do anything with the others? Either way, social interaction can be learned and should be taught, at least in my opinion. Even if people have completely different social backgrounds, there is almost always some common ground. Maybe they are just interested in a hobby of yours that they didn't know before.
This has to be in the south. Probably Texas. It's a cultural thing that comes from latinos and it's gotten mixed in. Not talking to someone is worse than murder to them. She is saying office but when I worked at a UPS warehouse, they were like that too.
How in the actual f**k did you manage to make this a race thing? Are you one of those people who think each racial demographic has a particular set of behavioral traits that is exclusive to them?
Load More Replies... It is sad but she should realize that her lack of socializing was her choice and was seen as something negative or “stuck up”. She didn’t have to go to happy hours but a little more effort on her part was not asking for too much.. Apparently that no longer made her am asset to her company. Both parties should be happy now and I do not feel sorry for her. Maybe in her next job she will realize this is not a perfect world and we do not always get what we want. Grow up, girl, the world does not revolve aroun you!
She isn't responsible for the conclusions others make about her refusal to be coerced into toxic workplace culture. If they want to be an immature click that s**t-talks behind her back, that's solely their problem. Her only responsibility to that company is to do her job, which she did. Setting healthy boundaries and sticking to them was the most grown up thing she could have done. If you think caving to the pressures of high-school level drama and illegal labor practices would have been more mature, then I have some bad news for you.
Load More Replies... Opinion on this is...so, so mixed. I don't like being around other people a lot, but this person gave them NO chance to get to know her as a person. A wall from the get go. Not even a hello of any meaningful kind. Workplace effectiveness is a brick wall when someone literally is one as well ...
Yeah, and her description of the workplace indicated toxic c**p from the door. I don't know why you consider some hellos more "meaningful" than others; literally it is a nonsense word made up to acknowledge someone's existence. A smile and a wave does exactly that.
Load More Replies... Socializing is a key part of team building. A 20 something clearly doesn't get it.... she is focused on the superficial " I hate smalltalk" while ignoring the very important bonding to be part of the team. A kid wouldn't understand that part, working with other people isn't being part of a team. But she quit, some day princess will "get it ". I don't drink either but this isn't about drinking.
Lol, as a 40 something who trains and mentors people for my team I have zero interest in "bonding" with them and never will. These are coworkers, not friends, and I'm not going to pretend to have interest in their lives or share mine.
Load More Replies... Typical of narcissist personalities or just plain spoiled self centered immature brats. " I refuse to get along".
Not talking to people isn't being self centered or a brat. Not talking to people isn't refusing to get along. Maybe your self righteous attitude is one of the reasons people don't want to talk to you.
Load More Replies... There's a line, no matter how you look at it. Yes you don't want to spend all your extra time with her CO workers. Some people love doing that, and that's that's them. But to build a good team, you do need to spend some time outside the office with them. You learn more about the people that you are working with, which in turn helps you do a better job. I'll be the 1st to say, that I hate these places that make constant team building exercises and socialization, but spending a couple of months with their CO workers outside of the the office is a good idea. Finally, saying you are in marketing, but don't want to learn more about your coworkers, means you are doing an average job not a good one. To be good in marketing you need to know a lot about your company in order to sell it, which includes coworkers.
Sorry, but I don't agree with that at all. I am a head of department at work and we all work as a very effective and efficient team despite none of us having contact with each other out of work. We are effective and efficient because we are all experts at our jobs. I know no more about my colleagues than I need to. I don't need to know anything about my colleagues family or social life in order to treat the patients that come to our practice, all I need to know are their strengths, weaknesses and areas of expertise at work. I don't need to socialise with them in order to do this I just need to pay attention to how they work. I can learn all I need to learn about them at work.
Load More Replies... Try working for a company that pays you 24/7, 365 days a year - our evening dos are sometimes a three line whip. And if you weren’t able to go, you’d have to send a formal letter or email excusing yourself. Welcome to the Armed Forces!
No thank you, I would never, ever become a member of the armed forces. If someone wants that sort of lifestyle, then fine. But I have a 9-5 job specifically because that is just about all I can bear to be around other people, I would not take a job that requires me to socialise with my colleagues after work. I am a teetotal introvert with absolutely not interest in going to pubs or clubs with the people I work with, I don't even attend any organised parties with work, and all I want to do after work is go home to my own space and do my own thing usually on my own. I spend all day listening to and dealing with other people's problems and I love my job, but it is just a job, it is not my life.
Load More Replies...
69
445