Parents Can’t Control Their Son, Are Furious When He’s Not Invited On Holiday
Interview
As small and powerless as they might seem, kids can still have a disproportionate effect on people around them, and never more so than when they are misbehaving. But, as the saying goes, there is no smoke without a fire, and the real blame often lies on the parent’s shoulders.
One woman asked the internet if she (and her family) were in the wrong for banning her SIL and her husband due to their horrible, uncontrollable child. When the SIL and her husband argued that this was unfair, OP hit back with all the past examples of their kid being a downright menace. We got in touch with Marilyn Wedge, Ph.D., to learn more about raising children.
Misbehaving children are often just reflections of their parent’s child-raising choices
Image credits: zharkovairina (not the actual photo)
Family drama ensued when a woman banned her SIL and her problem child from a family vacation
Image credits: cottonbro studio (not the actual photo)
Image credits: u/Level_Ad787
Children are ultimately humans, with their own idiosyncrasies and flaws
Bored Panda got in touch with Marilyn Wedge, Ph.D., an award-winning family therapist and author to learn more about children. We wanted to know how often there are “problem children” that arise independently from a parenting style. “Children’s behavior reflects a balance between nature and nurture. On the nature side, some babies are “easy” from the start. They sleep through the night after a few weeks and are not fussy. Other babies are more “difficult”. They don’t sleep through the night for many months and are often irritable. For example, I have identical twin sons. One was easygoing from the get-go. He slept through the night after two months and was rarely irritable. His brother, on the other hand, was often fussy. He was always getting into trouble and his brother was always helping him out,” she shared with us.
“He needed more attention from his parents, while his brother was able to entertain himself more easily at a younger age. My sons had the same parenting and the same genes but different temperaments. Some kids are strong-willed and need firm consistent discipline. Other kids are “highly sensitive” and need more attention from parents. On the nurture side, I do think there is a strong correlation between very bad behavior in children and inconsistent discipline or lack of attention by parents. Parents need to adjust their parenting style to their child’s temperament.”
Parents still have to take the brunt of responsibility for how a child turns out
So taking into consideration OP’s SIL, we also were curious what parents can do if they, unfortunately, have a kid that misbehaves constantly. “Consistent rules and consequences are the key to taming misbehaving children. Most importantly, parents need to be on the same page on discipline. They need to discuss privately the rules and consequences for their child and come to an agreement. One great way to discipline is to use the “count of three” method. Parents explain to their children in advance that when they are told to do something, parents will count to three. If the parents get to three the child and the child has not complied, he has an immediate consequence. For example, they have a time out in their room or lose TV time, The method is the same if parents ask the child to stop doing something. If they don’t stop when parents get to three, they get a consequence. Parents should not yell at their children when disciplining. They need to stay calm and follow through with consequences.”
It’s no secret that parenting is still hard work, so we thought it would be useful to hear what mistakes many parents end up making regardless of experience or style. “Common mistakes that parents make are: arguing in front of their child, yelling at their child, spanking, not listening to their child with their full attention, inconsistent discipline, and too much exposure to electronic screens like smartphones, tablets, and television. I cannot emphasize enough how important it is for parents not to have heated arguments in front of their children. In my experience as a child therapist, arguing in front of a child is a major cause of childhood problems like bad behavior.”
You can find more on Marilyn’s website here, where there are book recommendations, podcasts, and blog posts.
Readers gave suggestions and reassured OP that she is in the right
The commenter who said the parents need to fix this now or no one will want Sam around was close. In reality, the parents need to fix this now, because it'll be a lot cheaper than rehab -- if he's lucky. Otherwise, they should get used to the idea of accepting a lot of collect calls from the state prison.
Exactly. A kid with that kind of motivation and manipulative abilities learned it from someone. With the proper discipline and outlet for his energy and talents he could be successful in a positive way. Now, they're raising a pubescent boy with no rules or boundaries to become a malignant narcissist, or worse.
Load More Replies...
Anna and Sam's dad have been dating a year. Sam isn't family and doesn't need to be included. His dad.needs to take some parenting classes, and Anna too, if they're looking at a future together. Sam needs help ASAP.
I wouldn't look for a future together with a man who is scared of his ex and unable to set boundaries. Time to cut the losses.
Load More Replies... Unless Sam has some sort of condition that affects his emotional regulation then he shouldn't still be behaving this badly at his age. His parents are doing him a disservice by not giving him any consequences and not parenting him. However, considering there is conflict between his mother and father it's easy to see why he behaves as he does. The kid doesn't stand a chance at the moment and will end up being expelled from school and even end up in juvenile detention if something doesn't change soon. I sort of agree with the stepmother, someone needs to tell Sam that he isn't allowed on holiday because he can't be trusted to behave, that shouldn't fall to other family members though.
It doesn't have to do with any condition other than being a hormonally imbalanced 12 year old with a frontal cortex shut down. It's not the first time I've heard of a kid 11-14 have a tantrum over nothing. That being said, Sam needs counselling and his mom needs to take parenting classes. Not sure why Dave is scared of the mother of his son. That's another hole in the story, and I'm sure not relevant, as the OP just wants to know if she's TAH for uninviting Anna and Dave.
Load More Replies...
The thing is, he's 12, and this behavior didn't evolve in a vacuum. Dave wants to blame his ex for Sam's behavior, but he clearly has *never* disciplined him either, even before he broke with his ex - because Sam already knows he doesn't have to fear consequences from his father. That's something that develops over many years. Anna has picked a complete loser who finds it easier to let his kid run amok than to confront his bad behavior - and easier to tell others just to put up with it than actually punish Sam.
NTA - Anna is expecting to put the other children in danger Sam kicked a 6 year old?!). Sam isn’t a small child, he’s old enough to level with calmly and in a supportive way - but Anna is the total AH here. 12 year olds have the budding mind of an an adult mixed with the naïveté of a child - it can be a terrifying blend. I wouldn’t let my kids out my sight (even just in house) if I knew someone like Sam was around. I’m sympathetic to his situation, but my god the risk to the other children is just far too great.
Kid sounds like an entitled brat. I am sick of the ubiquitous excuse of ADHD. I would not want this nightmare child ruining everyone's vacay simply because his dad has no spine to discipline his son irrespective of what the ex says.
Apart from you, literally one person has mentioned ADHD. Hardly ubiquitous.
Load More Replies...
Actions have consequences - always. I think you can't teach children that early enough. It may be a difficult time for the boy, but it doesn't help to leave him to his own devices and not set any consequences. By the way, I think it's a very good idea to tell the boy directly why you don't want to take him with you. He is old enough to understand that, even if he reacts defiantly convinces himself that the family is stupid and that he doesn't want to come along anyway.
NTA. Sam is on his way to getting expelled from school, juvenile delinquency, a maximum-security prison, or the bone orchard. Dave and Anna can pat themselves on the back for that accomplishment. Dave needs to start walking on two legs and stop allowing his ex to crack the whip. Sam is borderline out of control; either his father needs to step up to his responsibility as a parent, or wait until the law--or the Grim Reaper--intervenes. Sooner or later, Sam will cross a line with the wrong person; it won't end well for him. No one else deserves to suffer at the hands of an undisciplined menace.
NTA. It's their vacation, and Sam is so far removed from the family that Sam is not the rest of the family's responsibility.
Poor Sam. The adults in his life have failed him. His life will be miserable.
I had a cousin like that growing up. He would break my toys and steal things from my room. He was 2 years older than me, and I was afraid of him. One day he ripped the head off my new Barbie doll and I let him have it with a whopper left fist to the face. He ended up with a black eye and told everyone he fell down the steps off our porch. The snot never pulled any of his antics again at my house. He learned that actions have consequences 😊
Adults say no to children to protect them an to teach them not everything is ok to do. The mother not teaching the kid to behave is on her. The father needs to set boundary's for the child in his home under his watch. It's not like cutting his hair or a physical change. It learning thst he can't always get his way and there is consequences to actions. Act better an get invited. Otherwise stay home and be left out.
Why doesn‘t she want to tell the boy he is responsible? If she would du it, then he might think about his behavior a bit. Could be a good thing
Can you think of any potential downsides to your plan?
Load More Replies...
I don't see any mention of this kid being evaluated for something like autism.
Not everything is a label. The kid is either a jerk, or he's not dealing with his parents' breakup, or both.
Load More Replies...
"Misbehaving children are often just reflections of their parent’s child-raising choices". One parent, two parents: "their parents' child-raising choices." Also, "everytime" isn't one word, ever: "Every time that she doesn't call. . . ." People get confused by the word "every", something can be an everyday thing (adjective form is one word), which means that it happens so often, it's like it happens every day (quantity + noun).
It's your vacation (as individuals and a group), u have every right to not have it ruined and to enjoy your time. Their issues with parenting and the reasons why, have nothing to do with you. This is how they r choosing to handle their situation, so they have to accept there may be consequences for those decisions
I laughed when the SIL tried to manipulate them into into inviting him by "YOU have to tell him he's not invited". Like b***h you think it's gonna scare me? Bring the kid, he's in for a lesson in (appropriate) honesty. I don't have any issue with telling my kids "you Are excluded from this activity, because of you bad behaviour. If you behave better, you can join us next time", so telling it to someone as spoiled as Sam would be a treat...
My youngest nibling is Aspergers, but wasn't diagnosed until high school. As a small child she was hell on wheels. My #3 asked if she could come spend the weekend at our house, we did that frequently with the older cousins (who were our kids ages, there is 6 year gap between that one and the next youngest) and I told #3 that no, we would not take her for the weekend. that I would take her for a month, but not just a weekend. Because I knew that in a month I could make a difference in her behavior (not by beating her, no worries) but in a weekend, it would only one tantrum after another, and I was not willing to do that to anybody. I feel badly for the poor boy in this story, but dang, his parents are failing him SO MUCH.
i can and have removed my child(ren) from places and events if they start to act up. its not a punishment. two of my kids have ASD and tantrums are one of the ways they tend to communicate when over stimulated. both are nonverbal as well, so telling me something is wrong is not possible with words. i have become good at recognizing the signs and removing them to a quiet safe location to calm and re-center themselves by making things as quiet as possible. when they are ready, i discuss what happened and assure them no one is mad, and we all want to make sure they have a fun time. sometimes they still have a tantrum. and that's okay. what's not okay is making it everyone else's problem. if i cant lead them to a calmer state, we say our goodbyes, thank everyone or spending time with us and go home. im not saying the kid has ASD. what i am saying is if this dynamic is going to work, the father needs to step up and teach his son appropriate behavior.
Kids love structure, rules, boundaries etc. YOU are the parent set a routine in (almost) stone and STICK TO IT!!!! But I'm a very firm believer in spanking. Don't beat your child but spank on the butt. Again YOU are the parent. NO TV!!!
NTA. But his bio mum is. Unfortunately he won’t know how to deal with rejection and failure (which DO exist, however much people want to say they don’t.) Try it in a small dose. Or, while it is a holiday, think of it as a chance to show him a different way for a consistent period of time with behavioural rewards and reprimands that earn him something to do on the trip.
If there aren't ever consequences, this kid is never going to behave. The AH move would be to allow Sam to ruin everyone else's holiday. There may need to be an intervention where Sam's dad is pressured to take some parenting classes, and take Sam to therapy. Sam needs boundries and consequences, before he destroys his own life.
Kids can get serious mental illness well before they are teens. This should be rules out before assuming the parents are horrible.
“Anna told me that Dave is scared of his ex-wife so he won't override her parenting and she doesn't believe in saying no to Sam. Everytime Anna tries saying something to Sam, he just reminds her that she is not his real mum.”
Load More Replies...
With this type of behavior, Sam is going to get the c**p beat out of him on a regular basis in the real world. I hope he is patient with that.
The thing is, I honestly wonder how much of that really is the ex and how much is the father. No one knows the ex, but from what we know it could easily be a happy go lucky dad who never before put his foot down to be friends with his kid and sabotaging the mom left and right. He doesn't seem to do anything to regulate his son. There are different ways to teach good manners. He could try positive reinforcement, gentle parenting or offering alternative routes of behaviour etc. That are harder but still could work if done right. But it doesn't seem he tries anything. That doesn't look remotely like just the ex not wanting her kid to be raised
Dave is a simp. He is not being a father. Fathers teach discipline and consequences. Never let them near your family ever again. That kind of pussy parenting is contagious
Well, I didn't get an invite ?? should I be mad ?? Because I am not !!! why would I want to go on holiday with parents who have no concept of manners ?? you can read that either way really.
Yup. It’s definitely for other people to fix this problem. Only an idiot would think that parenting should be done by a parent. What? Oh.
Load More Replies...
Most professional evaluations of neurodiversity are not made on the strength of a single Reddit post.
Load More Replies...
The commenter who said the parents need to fix this now or no one will want Sam around was close. In reality, the parents need to fix this now, because it'll be a lot cheaper than rehab -- if he's lucky. Otherwise, they should get used to the idea of accepting a lot of collect calls from the state prison.
Exactly. A kid with that kind of motivation and manipulative abilities learned it from someone. With the proper discipline and outlet for his energy and talents he could be successful in a positive way. Now, they're raising a pubescent boy with no rules or boundaries to become a malignant narcissist, or worse.
Load More Replies... Anna and Sam's dad have been dating a year. Sam isn't family and doesn't need to be included. His dad.needs to take some parenting classes, and Anna too, if they're looking at a future together. Sam needs help ASAP.
I wouldn't look for a future together with a man who is scared of his ex and unable to set boundaries. Time to cut the losses.
Load More Replies... Unless Sam has some sort of condition that affects his emotional regulation then he shouldn't still be behaving this badly at his age. His parents are doing him a disservice by not giving him any consequences and not parenting him. However, considering there is conflict between his mother and father it's easy to see why he behaves as he does. The kid doesn't stand a chance at the moment and will end up being expelled from school and even end up in juvenile detention if something doesn't change soon. I sort of agree with the stepmother, someone needs to tell Sam that he isn't allowed on holiday because he can't be trusted to behave, that shouldn't fall to other family members though.
It doesn't have to do with any condition other than being a hormonally imbalanced 12 year old with a frontal cortex shut down. It's not the first time I've heard of a kid 11-14 have a tantrum over nothing. That being said, Sam needs counselling and his mom needs to take parenting classes. Not sure why Dave is scared of the mother of his son. That's another hole in the story, and I'm sure not relevant, as the OP just wants to know if she's TAH for uninviting Anna and Dave.
Load More Replies... The thing is, he's 12, and this behavior didn't evolve in a vacuum. Dave wants to blame his ex for Sam's behavior, but he clearly has *never* disciplined him either, even before he broke with his ex - because Sam already knows he doesn't have to fear consequences from his father. That's something that develops over many years. Anna has picked a complete loser who finds it easier to let his kid run amok than to confront his bad behavior - and easier to tell others just to put up with it than actually punish Sam.
NTA - Anna is expecting to put the other children in danger Sam kicked a 6 year old?!). Sam isn’t a small child, he’s old enough to level with calmly and in a supportive way - but Anna is the total AH here. 12 year olds have the budding mind of an an adult mixed with the naïveté of a child - it can be a terrifying blend. I wouldn’t let my kids out my sight (even just in house) if I knew someone like Sam was around. I’m sympathetic to his situation, but my god the risk to the other children is just far too great.
Kid sounds like an entitled brat. I am sick of the ubiquitous excuse of ADHD. I would not want this nightmare child ruining everyone's vacay simply because his dad has no spine to discipline his son irrespective of what the ex says.
Apart from you, literally one person has mentioned ADHD. Hardly ubiquitous.
Load More Replies... Actions have consequences - always. I think you can't teach children that early enough. It may be a difficult time for the boy, but it doesn't help to leave him to his own devices and not set any consequences. By the way, I think it's a very good idea to tell the boy directly why you don't want to take him with you. He is old enough to understand that, even if he reacts defiantly convinces himself that the family is stupid and that he doesn't want to come along anyway.
NTA. Sam is on his way to getting expelled from school, juvenile delinquency, a maximum-security prison, or the bone orchard. Dave and Anna can pat themselves on the back for that accomplishment. Dave needs to start walking on two legs and stop allowing his ex to crack the whip. Sam is borderline out of control; either his father needs to step up to his responsibility as a parent, or wait until the law--or the Grim Reaper--intervenes. Sooner or later, Sam will cross a line with the wrong person; it won't end well for him. No one else deserves to suffer at the hands of an undisciplined menace.
NTA. It's their vacation, and Sam is so far removed from the family that Sam is not the rest of the family's responsibility.
Poor Sam. The adults in his life have failed him. His life will be miserable.
I had a cousin like that growing up. He would break my toys and steal things from my room. He was 2 years older than me, and I was afraid of him. One day he ripped the head off my new Barbie doll and I let him have it with a whopper left fist to the face. He ended up with a black eye and told everyone he fell down the steps off our porch. The snot never pulled any of his antics again at my house. He learned that actions have consequences 😊
Adults say no to children to protect them an to teach them not everything is ok to do. The mother not teaching the kid to behave is on her. The father needs to set boundary's for the child in his home under his watch. It's not like cutting his hair or a physical change. It learning thst he can't always get his way and there is consequences to actions. Act better an get invited. Otherwise stay home and be left out.
Why doesn‘t she want to tell the boy he is responsible? If she would du it, then he might think about his behavior a bit. Could be a good thing
Can you think of any potential downsides to your plan?
Load More Replies... I don't see any mention of this kid being evaluated for something like autism.
Not everything is a label. The kid is either a jerk, or he's not dealing with his parents' breakup, or both.
Load More Replies... "Misbehaving children are often just reflections of their parent’s child-raising choices". One parent, two parents: "their parents' child-raising choices." Also, "everytime" isn't one word, ever: "Every time that she doesn't call. . . ." People get confused by the word "every", something can be an everyday thing (adjective form is one word), which means that it happens so often, it's like it happens every day (quantity + noun).
It's your vacation (as individuals and a group), u have every right to not have it ruined and to enjoy your time. Their issues with parenting and the reasons why, have nothing to do with you. This is how they r choosing to handle their situation, so they have to accept there may be consequences for those decisions
I laughed when the SIL tried to manipulate them into into inviting him by "YOU have to tell him he's not invited". Like b***h you think it's gonna scare me? Bring the kid, he's in for a lesson in (appropriate) honesty. I don't have any issue with telling my kids "you Are excluded from this activity, because of you bad behaviour. If you behave better, you can join us next time", so telling it to someone as spoiled as Sam would be a treat...
My youngest nibling is Aspergers, but wasn't diagnosed until high school. As a small child she was hell on wheels. My #3 asked if she could come spend the weekend at our house, we did that frequently with the older cousins (who were our kids ages, there is 6 year gap between that one and the next youngest) and I told #3 that no, we would not take her for the weekend. that I would take her for a month, but not just a weekend. Because I knew that in a month I could make a difference in her behavior (not by beating her, no worries) but in a weekend, it would only one tantrum after another, and I was not willing to do that to anybody. I feel badly for the poor boy in this story, but dang, his parents are failing him SO MUCH.
i can and have removed my child(ren) from places and events if they start to act up. its not a punishment. two of my kids have ASD and tantrums are one of the ways they tend to communicate when over stimulated. both are nonverbal as well, so telling me something is wrong is not possible with words. i have become good at recognizing the signs and removing them to a quiet safe location to calm and re-center themselves by making things as quiet as possible. when they are ready, i discuss what happened and assure them no one is mad, and we all want to make sure they have a fun time. sometimes they still have a tantrum. and that's okay. what's not okay is making it everyone else's problem. if i cant lead them to a calmer state, we say our goodbyes, thank everyone or spending time with us and go home. im not saying the kid has ASD. what i am saying is if this dynamic is going to work, the father needs to step up and teach his son appropriate behavior.
Kids love structure, rules, boundaries etc. YOU are the parent set a routine in (almost) stone and STICK TO IT!!!! But I'm a very firm believer in spanking. Don't beat your child but spank on the butt. Again YOU are the parent. NO TV!!!
NTA. But his bio mum is. Unfortunately he won’t know how to deal with rejection and failure (which DO exist, however much people want to say they don’t.) Try it in a small dose. Or, while it is a holiday, think of it as a chance to show him a different way for a consistent period of time with behavioural rewards and reprimands that earn him something to do on the trip.
If there aren't ever consequences, this kid is never going to behave. The AH move would be to allow Sam to ruin everyone else's holiday. There may need to be an intervention where Sam's dad is pressured to take some parenting classes, and take Sam to therapy. Sam needs boundries and consequences, before he destroys his own life.
Kids can get serious mental illness well before they are teens. This should be rules out before assuming the parents are horrible.
“Anna told me that Dave is scared of his ex-wife so he won't override her parenting and she doesn't believe in saying no to Sam. Everytime Anna tries saying something to Sam, he just reminds her that she is not his real mum.”
Load More Replies... With this type of behavior, Sam is going to get the c**p beat out of him on a regular basis in the real world. I hope he is patient with that.
The thing is, I honestly wonder how much of that really is the ex and how much is the father. No one knows the ex, but from what we know it could easily be a happy go lucky dad who never before put his foot down to be friends with his kid and sabotaging the mom left and right. He doesn't seem to do anything to regulate his son. There are different ways to teach good manners. He could try positive reinforcement, gentle parenting or offering alternative routes of behaviour etc. That are harder but still could work if done right. But it doesn't seem he tries anything. That doesn't look remotely like just the ex not wanting her kid to be raised
Dave is a simp. He is not being a father. Fathers teach discipline and consequences. Never let them near your family ever again. That kind of pussy parenting is contagious
Well, I didn't get an invite ?? should I be mad ?? Because I am not !!! why would I want to go on holiday with parents who have no concept of manners ?? you can read that either way really.
Yup. It’s definitely for other people to fix this problem. Only an idiot would think that parenting should be done by a parent. What? Oh.
Load More Replies... Most professional evaluations of neurodiversity are not made on the strength of a single Reddit post.
Load More Replies...
100
61