Writer Tweets About Owing Money To Amazon Because Readers Are Returning Their Finished eBooks, Sparks A Debate Among Online Users
InterviewAs consumers, we really appreciate it when businesses allow us to return the items we bought. There are various reasons why we would like to do that. Maybe it is a faulty item and we didn’t notice it while purchasing it, or maybe we found something better at a lower price or saw something in a different light and it didn’t look as good.
Return policies are there to keep the customer satisfied, but it becomes a problem when they start abusing the system. Recently people started sharing a “hack” of purchasing ebooks and then returning them after they’ve finished reading them. Authors have noticed that their returns have gone up and blamed it on a trend that originated on TikTok, raising a question of its ethics.
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Writer Lisa Kessler received a lot of ebook returns and went to Twitter to vent, finding out it is actually a trend lately
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The issue was brought up by Lisa Kessler, a pretty well-known author for her dark paranormal fiction. She has received numerous awards, the first being for her debut novel Night Walker. This book won a San Diego Book Award for best Fantasy-Sci-fi-Horror.
She posted a tweet reminding people that Amazon is not a library and that for every returned book, she is being charged, so now the author is indebted to Amazon.
Lisa opened up about it more in her podcast named The Perfect Podcast created to promote her upcoming thriller Perfect. In the 5th episode, the woman reveals that she has been a writer for 10 years and during this time, a normal month would mean she doesn’t get any returns; 2 was the most she had ever had.
So she was really surprised when she opened up her Kindle dashboard and saw that in May, she had so many returns that she actually owed Amazon. Lisa was upset, and wanting to vent, she turned to Twitter. Her experience wasn’t isolated and so many other authors shared that they’ve recently noticed the same thing.
In the tweet, Lisa reminded people that Amazon is not a library and informed them that authors get charged for every returned book and she now owes Amazon
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Turns out, she was not the only one experiencing this
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While talking with BuzzFeed, Lisa explained why she thinks this is happening: “I discovered that in March, there was a TikTok video instructing readers about this loophole in Amazon’s return policy allowing them to read books quickly and return them. It even had a hashtag, #ReadAndReturnChallenge, but I don’t think they realized that Amazon was turning around and deducting money from the authors.”
Bored Panda reached out to another writer who also talked about the issue online, Erin Casey. She is the author of “The Purple Door District” series and the genre she specializes in is urban fantasy. Erin told us that she hasn’t seen her books returned yet but she is still waiting for one of her monthly updates on book sales, but she knows of other people receiving negative royalties and is upset that such a trend is hurting the author community.
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Other authors selling their ebooks on amazon shared that they’ve noticed that recently, people are returning more books than usual
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It is unclear where the TikTok videos advising people to return ebooks to be able to read for free have gone, as they are nowhere to be found, but there are a lot of videos of people discussing the situation.
People were comparing reading and returning an ebook to eating at a restaurant and asking to get the money back when the food is already gone. The majority of readers didn’t support this ‘hack’ and actually haven’t ever thought about doing this, even if they bought a book by accident.
The ones who thought that returning an ebook isn’t that bad didn’t understand the metaphor of comparing a book to food, because the book is still there even if you read it, while the food is gone once you eat it.
They were saying that they should have the right to return a book because what if they didn’t like it? What if it was problematic and they didn’t want to support the author?
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Lisa thinks this is due to a trend that started on BookTok where people encouraged people to read books and return them to save money
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We asked Erin if she saw more people supporting the authors or the ones that believed following such a trend wasn’t a big deal. The author admitted that she noticed there was a mix, “On TikTok, I’ve seen tons of readers/authors supporting authors in this situation. I’ve also seen TikTok users saying it’s not stealing and calling authors entitled.”
She explains why such a trend is so hurtful for authors, “We spend months and years developing this work, paying for people to edit it, create cover art, etc. It takes a lot of money out of our pocket in order to bring this creative world to the reader. And to have a reader take that work, read it, and return it just so they don’t have to pay… it’s literally taking money out of the author’s pocket.”
Also, returning books is a problem not only because authors get charged for it but some places will stop carrying the author’s books. Erin believes that not everyone realises that authors are losing funds and that is why they say things like “Well, if I didn’t return it, I wouldn’t have read the book anyway, so you’re getting exposure from it and not being negatively impacted.”
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Of course, if you accidentally bought a book and didn’t want to read it in the first place, then it’s a completely different situation. Also, if you bought a book and after reading the first couple of chapters, you realize that this wasn’t something you wanted, most people also don’t have a problem with the buyer returning the ebook.
What bothers them and the authors is when people read the whole book and then decide to return it. Which was the case with Lisa Kessler, because she noticed that people would return her whole series, and who would buy a third and a fourth book from the series when they knew they didn’t like the previous two?
People failed to realize that in this way, you are hurting the author and many of them considered such behavior stealing
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Many readers and authors argued that when you are paying for the book, you are not paying to get a great book or a satisfying ending. The product is reading itself and if you’ve read a book, that means you’ve got what you paid for and consumed it. You can’t give back the experience, the same as you can’t give back the experience of seeing the Mona Lisa or consuming any other form of art.
But if we put morals aside, there is another problem with returning ebooks: the authors get charged and they can even owe Amazon. The authors not only lose the money for the books, but they are also charged the download fee, so when it adds up, the revenue for the product might be negative.
Readers were outraged, suggesting that Amazon’s return policy is faulty and they should try harder to protect the authors who choose their platform to sell their work
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This trend on TikTok probably started out as an innocent hack to save money, because there are definitely people who like to read a lot and books are expensive. But there is such a thing as a library where you pay a small annual fee, you can read as many books as you want, and it’s actually expected from you to return it.
Libraries offer ebooks as well, if you prefer a digital version, and in this way you are not hurting the author because the library pays for those books. Many people also pointed out that Amazon has a subscription service called Kindle Unlimited, which costs from $9.99 a month and you get access to more than 1.5 million titles, including books in foreign languages.
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While people still believe they should have a right to return a product, most of them recognized that it is easy to abuse the system
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While going to a library seems like a very easy solution if you can’t afford books, Erin gave us a few reasons why people wouldn’t want to go there or maybe don’t want to: “1. People are now making it a challenge to read and return books for the exposure. They don’t care. They just want to prove they can do it. 2. Some people say they don’t physically have access to a library, which I can respect and understand. Accessibility is so important! That’s not to say they should steal books, but something else needs to be put in place to help them. 3. In some countries, people have to pay to use library services. 4. Sometimes the book isn’t at the library. However, if you request a book from a library, they more often than not will put in a request to buy it or interlibrary loan it. I’m not sure if people are aware of that.”
The author realises that not everyone understands returning ebooks after having read them is wrong, “They see others do it, so they assume it’s okay if they do it. That’s why I strive to educate because I know not everyone may understand.”
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To solve the problem, many people suggested Amazon should track how much of a book a person has read and not allow returns when they pass a certain percentage. Others think there should be a shorter time limit for returns.
Erin agrees that Amazon should review their return policy. Now it says that you can cancel the order in 7 days if you accidentally bought the wrong book, but “people are reading books within 7 days and returning them. Perhaps shortening the time in which a person can return an e-book would be helpful. Another easy way to fix the issue is for readers to stop returning the books. Amazon isn’t a library. It’s not meant to have items bought and returned after the item has been used.”
Have you ever returned an ebook? Did you know that it costs the author? Do you think it is a buyer’s right to be able to return an ebook? Do you have any ideas how the issue could be solved? Let’s create a discussion in the comments!
Am I the only one who thinks that peoples anger shoud aim towards Amazon and their evil ceo? Ebooks shouldn't be refundable, that's a first. But if they are (and of course that customers realized this and are abusing it), the author shouldn't have to return more money that they got. WTF, it's a literal steal.
Exactly, if I were the author, I’d be upset with Amazon. People will take advantage of whatever the system allows them to do. Amazon’s system is anti-author. In an ideal world you’d take your books off an exploitative platform like this, but I appreciate that in some places authors don’t really have a market that isn’t Amazon.
Load More Replies...eBooks shouldn't be eligible for return once they are downloaded, same as movies bought from Prime. If it was a mistake purchase, contact Customer Service. If you want a book for free, borrow it from the library or see if it is at OpenLibrary(dot)org.
Not sure how working now, but, it used to be you had to give a good reason and do it almost immediately. I've have it happen. No one should be allowed to do it in what's probably days later. There have been books that I've spent hours and hours reading then turned to c**p, and I didn't try and return.
Load More Replies...Kindle books should be non refundable. It’s sucks that authors are being taken advantage of by cheapskates and TikTok trends.
My son got into my kindle and bought a romance novel. It’s the only book I have returned so saying that they should be non refundable is not the best idea. Returning them within 10 mins should be acceptable.
Load More Replies...Disgusting that Amazon would do this to the authors. At the same time though, what kind of person do you have to be to buy a product, use the product, and then return the product. It's the same as buying an outfit, wearing it to an event, and returning it after. It's just dishonest. Be a better human.
There’s actually quiet a few online libraries that partner with kindle so you can read the books wherever, sora and overdrive i think. I have them for school but you can make an account for yourself based on the library closest to you. Don’t steal from the authors take advantage of the actual online libraries available.
The kindle link is only for US libraries. Which is a shame. I much prefer reading on my kindle than a tablet.
Load More Replies...Amazon is the villain here. It's obvious just reading the OP. People are going to use the policies available and not feel a bit of remorse about it because "it's allowed". If it wasn't allowed, they couldn't do it and the problem goes away.
By the same logic if you forget to lock your door and your tv is stolen then you are the villan for allowing your tv to get stolen.
Load More Replies...I buy physical books off Amazon and instead of hoarding them like I used to do, I now relist them on Amazon and resell them as used after I read them. Nobody looses that way. As for digital copies of books, there should be a 1 hr limit on returns in case they were bought by mistake and that’s it. Everything else just doesn't make sense.
If you are expecting people to become honest and not milk the system, they won't. Amazon will need to make the change. Many places will not allow you to return copyrighted material like movies, music, books, video games, etc. for that reason.
I'm an author on Amazon, so far not well known (and not using this name of course.) This is a concern that people have been talking about in a lot of writing groups. I'm kind of waiting to see what happens. If it starts *costing* me money to have my books for sale, beyond the typical things an author pays for to prepare the book, then I will pull my books and go elsewhere. With inflation, I can barely pay my rent. I don't need greedy people costing me more money.
(1 of 2) It doesn't seem fair that Amazon will not refund their other digital content (movies and music) once it's been listened to or viewed, yet will allow readers to read a book in its entirety and still receive a refund. They have the capability to see how much of the book has been read. I also see both sides (NOT referring to serial read and returns). Amazon's self-publishing platform has made it extremely easy for anyone who wants to publish, well...anything (subject to KDP's TOS and content guidelines). One thing KDP does NOT do is require authors to submit books that have been professionally edited. Don't get me wrong. I'm a heavy romance reader, and probably 99% of the ebooks I read are from self-published authors. I come across typos and think nothing of them since editors are human, too, and even traditional bestsellers have typos. However, some books are littered with them. Most times, I still overlook them if the plot is really tight.
It's just immoral and unethical to return a book that has been read. And that dumb a$$ who commented that if you don't like the book, you should return it, is full of $hit. That's why the sample is there. If the book is purchased accidentally, don't open it and then return it. But FFS, quit being a cheapskate.
Movie theatres (where I am at least) state that if you are less than half an hour into the movie you can walk out and get a refund if desired. Similar limited rules should be in place for ebooks. Amazon is literally stealing money from authors for no reason.
wait so there is a person saying you should be able to return the book if you dont like it? how does that work? If you buy a dvd for entertaining purposes and dont like the plot of the ending, you give it back? who do people think they are?
This reminds me of the rampant pirating that happened when burning DVDs was still pretty new. Blockbuster had a policy that if you returned the rental within 3 hours you could grab another title for free. So people were renting games and movies, copying them and returning for a free title. Rinse and repeat
Wow this should really be illigal. Especially charging the author a "delivery fee" for digital purchases. That's beyond greed on Amazons side
Maybe authors shouldn't be so stupid to invest in ebooks if they want to earn money. And write books that get published by accredited publishers. If I publisher doesn't see the value, no one else will. Even the cookbooks I see nowadays are basically shite, and I'd never buy any of them. Every cooking website literally copies and pastes the same recipe from other websites but adds the most boring bullshite story as if they invented the recipe.
Load More Replies...Wow. That's awful. Just shows you how crappy people can be. If you buy books with returning them after reading them in mind, you're an a**hole.
I felt really awful for a while until I realised the thread is about non-Kindle Unlimited ebooks. Do these people do the same thing with books they’ve bought from a book shop? No. So why do they think it’s acceptable to do this with ebooks? The thought had never crossed my mind to return ebooks. Bought some pretty rubbish ebooks but I just delete them if I don’t like them. I’m quite cross with the people who do this, particularly if they’re returning ebooks by my favourite authors!
Don't be fooled. The electronic media you buy through Google or iTunes is subject to their lisencing of the media, and your purchased content might be unavailable to you tomorrow.
Load More Replies...(2 of 2) So if I buy a book, I’m buying it with the expectation that there won’t be grammar errors and typos littering *every* page. Sometimes, though, the ebook sample (10 or 15%) is really too short to get a feel for the content, especially for novellas, because the title page, copyright page, table of contents, and all the front matter is included in the sample. All that said, I advocate for legitimate returns (formatting, terrible editing, etc.), but really, these returns should happen long before the book is read all the way through. And while Amazon DOES punish serial returners by taking away their option to request a refund, it doesn’t help authors when this trend has multiple people doing it. 1 serial returner who will eventually be caught vs 100 “trendsetters” constantly barraging an author with returns? That’s completely unfair and Amazon needs to do something (re: no returns with book completely read). The damage is happening now.
I get where you're coming from, but surely that's what the reviews should be for. If you read a self-published, and it's *awful* and filled with errors, leave a scathing review that will help others to make an informed choice. Far better to not buy the book in the first place than allow it to be returned, costing the author extra money.
Load More Replies...I have returned a few books on Amazon. They were all purchased by mistake, never opened or downloaded in my Kindle, and the request was made within the same day, if not the same hour. Amazon and/or the author should be able to see if the person has read it - I can see it on the website, so why can't they? I'd say if it's passed maybe 1-2 chapters, people shouldn't be able to return. I have also returned a few books at Chapters when I didn't have my list with me and bought duplicates. Now I have a huge spreadsheet and I use it for shopping and bring it with me at the stores. On vacation it's on my USB. No more problems.
I use the library apps and if I like the book then I buy a physical copy. I think it's a great way for authors to sell books that people otherwise might not take a chance on buying. But Amazon is doing authors and the literary world a great disservice by running things this way. And charging a delivery fee... For electronic delivery that costs them nothing? And they take most of the cut of the sale too? They should be eating the cost (which to them is almost nothing anyway) if a book is returned. And not allowing returns for people who do this more than a few times. Shame on them!
You shouldn’t be able to return a book because you subjectively did not like it.
All of you getting angry about this now need to go get educated about the massive amount of "charge back fraud" that entrepreneurs and small business owners face.
The return button for Kindle books should have a time limit, like 10-15min. I've bought once by mistake and was glad to be able to immediately return it. With all other books, sometimes I like them sometimes I don't, but if I've been reading them for a few hours they are mine, and my only choice should be to either continue reading it or deleting it.
I use my public library back in my home country to borrow books. I will never buy another ebook or emovie again because although you've paid for the media, you've only paid for the rights to usage, and those rights are not necessarily transferred to other countries. I have 2 kindle fires-one American and one French. I cannot download or view all the media I purchased through one device on the other. I only have 2 kindle fires because I couldn't get Amazon to fix or replace my American Kindle fire in France and had to buy a new one. To my disappointment, none of the films I had purchased on the American Kindle fire were available on my French Kindle fire, and not all of the books I had purchased were available either. Through my public library back in the USA (I maintain a membership) I can "borrow" books on my French kindle fire, but not films. No, I'll never buy an ebook or emovie again. If it's not in hard copy, I won't buy it.
mm, how about that - given it's a e-books, Amazon don't overcharge the authors ? Like refund the user's money and also refund the delivery fee back to the author. That would of course mean that Amazon will find a solution to the "read-then-return" problem for less than 3 working days...
I returned a book once because I bought it on my dad's Amazon account instead of mine. I returned and the purchased in my account. I had no idea the author got hit with a fee for this.
Amazon knows how much of the book you have read, what page you are on. They should take after Steam, where they prohibit returns if you played a game for more than a few hours.
just disgusting behaviour. i've been using Kindle for ten years now to read ebooks and have only ever returned one that i bought by accident, and on the occasions when i've bought a book i don't like i simply delete it because it's not the author's fault that the book doesn't match my tastes.
This is clearly an Amazon being corporate Amazon issue. They need to change rules and also change it so they don't hurt authors primarily. But this is Amazon they want to keep customers happy - not saying returning after reading a book is right- and pass the bill onto struggling authors. A customer should have that right because there are c**p books too but I think bezos could sell one yacht to cover this issue and then some - and not leave struggling authors to cover the cost. Just my opinion.
I think if it's a book it shouldn't be returnable! No matter the reason! You kid playing on your phone and they have access to your accounts that's the fault of the parent!
Allowing this behavior could be devastating to new authors. It is extremely difficult to break into the writing field, and while sometimes shortcuts such as self-publishing help, it still costs a certain amount of money to do that. Especially if you get it professionally edited, which is a really good idea if you want to be taken seriously. Charging the author for returns makes ZERO sense. It's just a money grab on Amazon's part.
I think there should be a limit on the return policy - in hours because of speed readers - for eBooks or music. I've returned a "record" I did not mean to purchase - my finger slipped and I thought I'd bought the right song, but no...
I prefer hard copy books- something about having it in my hands makes it special to me (idk, I'm weird though). But I will agree; returning an E-book that you bought is really shitty. They aren't even that expensive. If it's the cost, go to the library. It's free there. Jeezus
There is no excuse for this because it is stealing, and because Amazon could easily put a stop to this. But the publishers themselves may be contributing to this problem by limiting the number of e-books to library systems, often just one copy when first published. In my area that's one copy for ALL of Los Angeles County, which has millions of people in it, NOT per individual library. Thus there are wait lists months long. This didn't used to be the case, but they decided to limit the copies because they were losing profits. However my solution is to get on a pre-release wait list and PATIENCE. If you can't be patient then suck it up and buy a copy! Returns should be limited to accidental purchases or if there are egregious printing mistakes within the e-book which can happen sometimes.
What the ... ? Is there any way, in a well orchesrated effort of the masses, to buy and return stuff that will only cost amazon, and no one else? They need to be put in their place - if they refund for ebooks ... their problem. The author should be free not to allow returns, unless amazon covers AT THE VERY LEAST the cost so it evens out to zero for anyone but amazon. And, at the very least also, the author should not pay. The buyer may get a partial return, as intellectual property is already usable and likely used when returned. Man, when we had to buy physical copies of whatever (books, records, ...), they made the hell of sure that we don't do any copying, but here, amazon encourages this shitty, entitled, ungrateful lame excuse of socalled behaviour. People suck.
This makes me afraid to publish a book on Amazon now. Hope this gets resolved soon!
The only time I return ebooks is for craft books, like knitting patterns. If I go through and realize the patterns are c**p or the instructions badly written, I return it. But this is pretty rare for me, anyway.
How can anyone be allowed to return a book anyway? You read the synopsis, either digital or real, and thought you would read it! Unless it's actually not the book described in aforementioned synopsis, what kind of snowflake would have the temerity!
This was a trending argument on TikTok months ago. I've returned physical books in the past because Chapters/Indigo return policy states that I can. Can't say that I would have considered returning an eBook, which is what the whole hoopla seems to be about.
Also went and looked at the listing for this Muse series that sparked the tweet. It looks horrible. I wouldn't think to even purchase it.
Load More Replies...I'd be curious how many of these authors pirated mp3s or movies. I'll bet more than a few. It sucks being a creator of any kind in the digital age. My movie I spent years and tens of thousands of dollars making was on Youtube the first day of release.... pirated all over the place. Nobody cares about content creators at all and the money we lose. We just stop making content and go away... eventually people will wonder why there's no new books or new movies or new music..
I bet that most people don't realize they're hurting authors and publishers. They think they hurt Amazon, but Amazon is not having it. They don't care at all when someone returns an ebook. I work in the industry and when I realized that they don't give back their marges I was shocked. This should be illegal.
People disgust me. Amazon disgusts me too, but you kind of expect them to be d*cks about it all.
Wait you can return a book? No seriously.... Amazon posts some books like fight club as the full thing when it's just an excerpt acted out like a verbal play, is very very short, and the same price. I would've returned those in favor of the full novel if I'd known that... but never a book I enjoyed.
Does anyone have links to the tiktoks that are encouraging this? I feel like that info should be shared
Here's an idea...either make the eBooks non-refundable or set up a monitoring system for returned eBooks. If you have a consumer that is returning 50% (or whatever number) of eBooks they buy, block them from buying eBooks. If they create another account with the same Kindle information, suspend their Amazon account completely. It is not hard to make a program that can monitor these accounts. Amazon and the authors can make money off the books....it should be the little s***s that are doing this that should be punished. And LlamaCommando needs to be slapped upside the head with a book for suggesting it's the authors fault because they didn't write a better book.
I also think the authors should file a class action lawsuit against Amazon and the TikTok group that suggested this for lost royalties.
Load More Replies...I know there's an option to return ebooks but I didnt know it was that easy. I was on my tablet Kindle app and looking at the ebooks I didnt own yet for a series and didn't notice I was buying them somehow instead of just viewing them. I still dont understand how it happened but it was like $50. I didn't download them or anything and immediately went to Amazon Support chat to return them. They processed my returns without any issue but basically lectured me about how they don't return purchased ebooks, be careful with what I purchase, etc etc etc. Which, I totally understand and now know that I contributed to screwing over the author. But I didnt even download those accidental purchases and asked for returns right after I did while people are doing so for books they’ve actually downloaded and presumably days or weeks later.
I have only ever returned one e-book to Amazon and that was because it had so many typos and other mistakes it was impossible to read. I have bought other books where I have read a few chapters and just couldn't get into them, so I just deleted them. It wouldn't even occur to me to return it for a refund. I definitely think Amazon look at their refund policy where e-books are concerned.
I've returned books that were garbage and couldn't get past the first chapter or two. There's a time limit and max amount you can return. While it sucks for the writer, it also sucks to get a book that is awful. You can sign up for Kindle Unlimited for like $10 a month and get a slew of books for "free." Your local library have eBook lending as well. BTW I'm working on a novel now. I'm not a monster, some books are just garbage. Sort of the gamble with self published eBooks.
The two that I've returned recently, that I paid for (as opposed to returning free Kindle content, which I've also done), were cookbooks. One of them was formatted in such a way that I absolutely *could not* adjust the font size, the background color, nothing. I have vision issues, so when I'm forced to squint to read a tiny, dark, font on a colored background--no thanks. The other cookbook was based on a restaurant I was never hugely fond of, but I did like a couple of their items, so I was hoping the cookbook would have the items I liked. No such luck, so I returned that one too.
I assume people started abusing the system because we can no longer borrow normal ebooks from libraries. It used to be possible to get an ebook to read on your kindle, but Amazon changed that and all new ebooks come in weird formats that DON'T WORK ON OLD KINDLES! It may not matter for people who read on their phones or tablets and are online all the time, but those of us who download a book on their Kindle to read while traveling and being offline can no longer do that. I expect readers seeing that they need to pay 15 or 20 bucks for a book decide that the author gets paid well enough that their one book doesn't matter? Authors need to request for their books to be available as regular ebooks in libraries again and I think people will stop doing this.
If Amazon is giving the option to return books why wouldn't people use this option. I have had a kindle for years and have returned books I did not like I never knew that this was charged back to the author I feel horrible about it and wish I knew. How many people do you think know that returning books affects the author. Everybody just jumped to people are horrible why would they do this. I didn't know and chances are most people don't know this either. Amazon is a horrible company.
I thought they had to be returned like immediately if someone made a mistake, not the time it takes to actually read one.
DIfference between an ebook and a hard copy: I can't resell my ebook.
Here's a solution... put in your contract that there should be loan fee that covers amazon charging you! Also dont blame readers blame amazon and yourselves for allowing it! Change your contract...install new rules between you and amazon! Don't blame the readers for enjoying your work!
Ebooks are not refundable at least not on the sites I use. Hard books yes, ebooks no. Also why would amazon do this? No offense but there aren't libraries all over the world or all over the states
You can access virtual libraries online from pretty much every country for free.
Load More Replies...You deem every authors book is smut? And if they are putting books on Amazon I highly doubt they are banking on surviving off their book sales. Many of these authors have jobs already.
Load More Replies...Am I the only one who thinks that peoples anger shoud aim towards Amazon and their evil ceo? Ebooks shouldn't be refundable, that's a first. But if they are (and of course that customers realized this and are abusing it), the author shouldn't have to return more money that they got. WTF, it's a literal steal.
Exactly, if I were the author, I’d be upset with Amazon. People will take advantage of whatever the system allows them to do. Amazon’s system is anti-author. In an ideal world you’d take your books off an exploitative platform like this, but I appreciate that in some places authors don’t really have a market that isn’t Amazon.
Load More Replies...eBooks shouldn't be eligible for return once they are downloaded, same as movies bought from Prime. If it was a mistake purchase, contact Customer Service. If you want a book for free, borrow it from the library or see if it is at OpenLibrary(dot)org.
Not sure how working now, but, it used to be you had to give a good reason and do it almost immediately. I've have it happen. No one should be allowed to do it in what's probably days later. There have been books that I've spent hours and hours reading then turned to c**p, and I didn't try and return.
Load More Replies...Kindle books should be non refundable. It’s sucks that authors are being taken advantage of by cheapskates and TikTok trends.
My son got into my kindle and bought a romance novel. It’s the only book I have returned so saying that they should be non refundable is not the best idea. Returning them within 10 mins should be acceptable.
Load More Replies...Disgusting that Amazon would do this to the authors. At the same time though, what kind of person do you have to be to buy a product, use the product, and then return the product. It's the same as buying an outfit, wearing it to an event, and returning it after. It's just dishonest. Be a better human.
There’s actually quiet a few online libraries that partner with kindle so you can read the books wherever, sora and overdrive i think. I have them for school but you can make an account for yourself based on the library closest to you. Don’t steal from the authors take advantage of the actual online libraries available.
The kindle link is only for US libraries. Which is a shame. I much prefer reading on my kindle than a tablet.
Load More Replies...Amazon is the villain here. It's obvious just reading the OP. People are going to use the policies available and not feel a bit of remorse about it because "it's allowed". If it wasn't allowed, they couldn't do it and the problem goes away.
By the same logic if you forget to lock your door and your tv is stolen then you are the villan for allowing your tv to get stolen.
Load More Replies...I buy physical books off Amazon and instead of hoarding them like I used to do, I now relist them on Amazon and resell them as used after I read them. Nobody looses that way. As for digital copies of books, there should be a 1 hr limit on returns in case they were bought by mistake and that’s it. Everything else just doesn't make sense.
If you are expecting people to become honest and not milk the system, they won't. Amazon will need to make the change. Many places will not allow you to return copyrighted material like movies, music, books, video games, etc. for that reason.
I'm an author on Amazon, so far not well known (and not using this name of course.) This is a concern that people have been talking about in a lot of writing groups. I'm kind of waiting to see what happens. If it starts *costing* me money to have my books for sale, beyond the typical things an author pays for to prepare the book, then I will pull my books and go elsewhere. With inflation, I can barely pay my rent. I don't need greedy people costing me more money.
(1 of 2) It doesn't seem fair that Amazon will not refund their other digital content (movies and music) once it's been listened to or viewed, yet will allow readers to read a book in its entirety and still receive a refund. They have the capability to see how much of the book has been read. I also see both sides (NOT referring to serial read and returns). Amazon's self-publishing platform has made it extremely easy for anyone who wants to publish, well...anything (subject to KDP's TOS and content guidelines). One thing KDP does NOT do is require authors to submit books that have been professionally edited. Don't get me wrong. I'm a heavy romance reader, and probably 99% of the ebooks I read are from self-published authors. I come across typos and think nothing of them since editors are human, too, and even traditional bestsellers have typos. However, some books are littered with them. Most times, I still overlook them if the plot is really tight.
It's just immoral and unethical to return a book that has been read. And that dumb a$$ who commented that if you don't like the book, you should return it, is full of $hit. That's why the sample is there. If the book is purchased accidentally, don't open it and then return it. But FFS, quit being a cheapskate.
Movie theatres (where I am at least) state that if you are less than half an hour into the movie you can walk out and get a refund if desired. Similar limited rules should be in place for ebooks. Amazon is literally stealing money from authors for no reason.
wait so there is a person saying you should be able to return the book if you dont like it? how does that work? If you buy a dvd for entertaining purposes and dont like the plot of the ending, you give it back? who do people think they are?
This reminds me of the rampant pirating that happened when burning DVDs was still pretty new. Blockbuster had a policy that if you returned the rental within 3 hours you could grab another title for free. So people were renting games and movies, copying them and returning for a free title. Rinse and repeat
Wow this should really be illigal. Especially charging the author a "delivery fee" for digital purchases. That's beyond greed on Amazons side
Maybe authors shouldn't be so stupid to invest in ebooks if they want to earn money. And write books that get published by accredited publishers. If I publisher doesn't see the value, no one else will. Even the cookbooks I see nowadays are basically shite, and I'd never buy any of them. Every cooking website literally copies and pastes the same recipe from other websites but adds the most boring bullshite story as if they invented the recipe.
Load More Replies...Wow. That's awful. Just shows you how crappy people can be. If you buy books with returning them after reading them in mind, you're an a**hole.
I felt really awful for a while until I realised the thread is about non-Kindle Unlimited ebooks. Do these people do the same thing with books they’ve bought from a book shop? No. So why do they think it’s acceptable to do this with ebooks? The thought had never crossed my mind to return ebooks. Bought some pretty rubbish ebooks but I just delete them if I don’t like them. I’m quite cross with the people who do this, particularly if they’re returning ebooks by my favourite authors!
Don't be fooled. The electronic media you buy through Google or iTunes is subject to their lisencing of the media, and your purchased content might be unavailable to you tomorrow.
Load More Replies...(2 of 2) So if I buy a book, I’m buying it with the expectation that there won’t be grammar errors and typos littering *every* page. Sometimes, though, the ebook sample (10 or 15%) is really too short to get a feel for the content, especially for novellas, because the title page, copyright page, table of contents, and all the front matter is included in the sample. All that said, I advocate for legitimate returns (formatting, terrible editing, etc.), but really, these returns should happen long before the book is read all the way through. And while Amazon DOES punish serial returners by taking away their option to request a refund, it doesn’t help authors when this trend has multiple people doing it. 1 serial returner who will eventually be caught vs 100 “trendsetters” constantly barraging an author with returns? That’s completely unfair and Amazon needs to do something (re: no returns with book completely read). The damage is happening now.
I get where you're coming from, but surely that's what the reviews should be for. If you read a self-published, and it's *awful* and filled with errors, leave a scathing review that will help others to make an informed choice. Far better to not buy the book in the first place than allow it to be returned, costing the author extra money.
Load More Replies...I have returned a few books on Amazon. They were all purchased by mistake, never opened or downloaded in my Kindle, and the request was made within the same day, if not the same hour. Amazon and/or the author should be able to see if the person has read it - I can see it on the website, so why can't they? I'd say if it's passed maybe 1-2 chapters, people shouldn't be able to return. I have also returned a few books at Chapters when I didn't have my list with me and bought duplicates. Now I have a huge spreadsheet and I use it for shopping and bring it with me at the stores. On vacation it's on my USB. No more problems.
I use the library apps and if I like the book then I buy a physical copy. I think it's a great way for authors to sell books that people otherwise might not take a chance on buying. But Amazon is doing authors and the literary world a great disservice by running things this way. And charging a delivery fee... For electronic delivery that costs them nothing? And they take most of the cut of the sale too? They should be eating the cost (which to them is almost nothing anyway) if a book is returned. And not allowing returns for people who do this more than a few times. Shame on them!
You shouldn’t be able to return a book because you subjectively did not like it.
All of you getting angry about this now need to go get educated about the massive amount of "charge back fraud" that entrepreneurs and small business owners face.
The return button for Kindle books should have a time limit, like 10-15min. I've bought once by mistake and was glad to be able to immediately return it. With all other books, sometimes I like them sometimes I don't, but if I've been reading them for a few hours they are mine, and my only choice should be to either continue reading it or deleting it.
I use my public library back in my home country to borrow books. I will never buy another ebook or emovie again because although you've paid for the media, you've only paid for the rights to usage, and those rights are not necessarily transferred to other countries. I have 2 kindle fires-one American and one French. I cannot download or view all the media I purchased through one device on the other. I only have 2 kindle fires because I couldn't get Amazon to fix or replace my American Kindle fire in France and had to buy a new one. To my disappointment, none of the films I had purchased on the American Kindle fire were available on my French Kindle fire, and not all of the books I had purchased were available either. Through my public library back in the USA (I maintain a membership) I can "borrow" books on my French kindle fire, but not films. No, I'll never buy an ebook or emovie again. If it's not in hard copy, I won't buy it.
mm, how about that - given it's a e-books, Amazon don't overcharge the authors ? Like refund the user's money and also refund the delivery fee back to the author. That would of course mean that Amazon will find a solution to the "read-then-return" problem for less than 3 working days...
I returned a book once because I bought it on my dad's Amazon account instead of mine. I returned and the purchased in my account. I had no idea the author got hit with a fee for this.
Amazon knows how much of the book you have read, what page you are on. They should take after Steam, where they prohibit returns if you played a game for more than a few hours.
just disgusting behaviour. i've been using Kindle for ten years now to read ebooks and have only ever returned one that i bought by accident, and on the occasions when i've bought a book i don't like i simply delete it because it's not the author's fault that the book doesn't match my tastes.
This is clearly an Amazon being corporate Amazon issue. They need to change rules and also change it so they don't hurt authors primarily. But this is Amazon they want to keep customers happy - not saying returning after reading a book is right- and pass the bill onto struggling authors. A customer should have that right because there are c**p books too but I think bezos could sell one yacht to cover this issue and then some - and not leave struggling authors to cover the cost. Just my opinion.
I think if it's a book it shouldn't be returnable! No matter the reason! You kid playing on your phone and they have access to your accounts that's the fault of the parent!
Allowing this behavior could be devastating to new authors. It is extremely difficult to break into the writing field, and while sometimes shortcuts such as self-publishing help, it still costs a certain amount of money to do that. Especially if you get it professionally edited, which is a really good idea if you want to be taken seriously. Charging the author for returns makes ZERO sense. It's just a money grab on Amazon's part.
I think there should be a limit on the return policy - in hours because of speed readers - for eBooks or music. I've returned a "record" I did not mean to purchase - my finger slipped and I thought I'd bought the right song, but no...
I prefer hard copy books- something about having it in my hands makes it special to me (idk, I'm weird though). But I will agree; returning an E-book that you bought is really shitty. They aren't even that expensive. If it's the cost, go to the library. It's free there. Jeezus
There is no excuse for this because it is stealing, and because Amazon could easily put a stop to this. But the publishers themselves may be contributing to this problem by limiting the number of e-books to library systems, often just one copy when first published. In my area that's one copy for ALL of Los Angeles County, which has millions of people in it, NOT per individual library. Thus there are wait lists months long. This didn't used to be the case, but they decided to limit the copies because they were losing profits. However my solution is to get on a pre-release wait list and PATIENCE. If you can't be patient then suck it up and buy a copy! Returns should be limited to accidental purchases or if there are egregious printing mistakes within the e-book which can happen sometimes.
What the ... ? Is there any way, in a well orchesrated effort of the masses, to buy and return stuff that will only cost amazon, and no one else? They need to be put in their place - if they refund for ebooks ... their problem. The author should be free not to allow returns, unless amazon covers AT THE VERY LEAST the cost so it evens out to zero for anyone but amazon. And, at the very least also, the author should not pay. The buyer may get a partial return, as intellectual property is already usable and likely used when returned. Man, when we had to buy physical copies of whatever (books, records, ...), they made the hell of sure that we don't do any copying, but here, amazon encourages this shitty, entitled, ungrateful lame excuse of socalled behaviour. People suck.
This makes me afraid to publish a book on Amazon now. Hope this gets resolved soon!
The only time I return ebooks is for craft books, like knitting patterns. If I go through and realize the patterns are c**p or the instructions badly written, I return it. But this is pretty rare for me, anyway.
How can anyone be allowed to return a book anyway? You read the synopsis, either digital or real, and thought you would read it! Unless it's actually not the book described in aforementioned synopsis, what kind of snowflake would have the temerity!
This was a trending argument on TikTok months ago. I've returned physical books in the past because Chapters/Indigo return policy states that I can. Can't say that I would have considered returning an eBook, which is what the whole hoopla seems to be about.
Also went and looked at the listing for this Muse series that sparked the tweet. It looks horrible. I wouldn't think to even purchase it.
Load More Replies...I'd be curious how many of these authors pirated mp3s or movies. I'll bet more than a few. It sucks being a creator of any kind in the digital age. My movie I spent years and tens of thousands of dollars making was on Youtube the first day of release.... pirated all over the place. Nobody cares about content creators at all and the money we lose. We just stop making content and go away... eventually people will wonder why there's no new books or new movies or new music..
I bet that most people don't realize they're hurting authors and publishers. They think they hurt Amazon, but Amazon is not having it. They don't care at all when someone returns an ebook. I work in the industry and when I realized that they don't give back their marges I was shocked. This should be illegal.
People disgust me. Amazon disgusts me too, but you kind of expect them to be d*cks about it all.
Wait you can return a book? No seriously.... Amazon posts some books like fight club as the full thing when it's just an excerpt acted out like a verbal play, is very very short, and the same price. I would've returned those in favor of the full novel if I'd known that... but never a book I enjoyed.
Does anyone have links to the tiktoks that are encouraging this? I feel like that info should be shared
Here's an idea...either make the eBooks non-refundable or set up a monitoring system for returned eBooks. If you have a consumer that is returning 50% (or whatever number) of eBooks they buy, block them from buying eBooks. If they create another account with the same Kindle information, suspend their Amazon account completely. It is not hard to make a program that can monitor these accounts. Amazon and the authors can make money off the books....it should be the little s***s that are doing this that should be punished. And LlamaCommando needs to be slapped upside the head with a book for suggesting it's the authors fault because they didn't write a better book.
I also think the authors should file a class action lawsuit against Amazon and the TikTok group that suggested this for lost royalties.
Load More Replies...I know there's an option to return ebooks but I didnt know it was that easy. I was on my tablet Kindle app and looking at the ebooks I didnt own yet for a series and didn't notice I was buying them somehow instead of just viewing them. I still dont understand how it happened but it was like $50. I didn't download them or anything and immediately went to Amazon Support chat to return them. They processed my returns without any issue but basically lectured me about how they don't return purchased ebooks, be careful with what I purchase, etc etc etc. Which, I totally understand and now know that I contributed to screwing over the author. But I didnt even download those accidental purchases and asked for returns right after I did while people are doing so for books they’ve actually downloaded and presumably days or weeks later.
I have only ever returned one e-book to Amazon and that was because it had so many typos and other mistakes it was impossible to read. I have bought other books where I have read a few chapters and just couldn't get into them, so I just deleted them. It wouldn't even occur to me to return it for a refund. I definitely think Amazon look at their refund policy where e-books are concerned.
I've returned books that were garbage and couldn't get past the first chapter or two. There's a time limit and max amount you can return. While it sucks for the writer, it also sucks to get a book that is awful. You can sign up for Kindle Unlimited for like $10 a month and get a slew of books for "free." Your local library have eBook lending as well. BTW I'm working on a novel now. I'm not a monster, some books are just garbage. Sort of the gamble with self published eBooks.
The two that I've returned recently, that I paid for (as opposed to returning free Kindle content, which I've also done), were cookbooks. One of them was formatted in such a way that I absolutely *could not* adjust the font size, the background color, nothing. I have vision issues, so when I'm forced to squint to read a tiny, dark, font on a colored background--no thanks. The other cookbook was based on a restaurant I was never hugely fond of, but I did like a couple of their items, so I was hoping the cookbook would have the items I liked. No such luck, so I returned that one too.
I assume people started abusing the system because we can no longer borrow normal ebooks from libraries. It used to be possible to get an ebook to read on your kindle, but Amazon changed that and all new ebooks come in weird formats that DON'T WORK ON OLD KINDLES! It may not matter for people who read on their phones or tablets and are online all the time, but those of us who download a book on their Kindle to read while traveling and being offline can no longer do that. I expect readers seeing that they need to pay 15 or 20 bucks for a book decide that the author gets paid well enough that their one book doesn't matter? Authors need to request for their books to be available as regular ebooks in libraries again and I think people will stop doing this.
If Amazon is giving the option to return books why wouldn't people use this option. I have had a kindle for years and have returned books I did not like I never knew that this was charged back to the author I feel horrible about it and wish I knew. How many people do you think know that returning books affects the author. Everybody just jumped to people are horrible why would they do this. I didn't know and chances are most people don't know this either. Amazon is a horrible company.
I thought they had to be returned like immediately if someone made a mistake, not the time it takes to actually read one.
DIfference between an ebook and a hard copy: I can't resell my ebook.
Here's a solution... put in your contract that there should be loan fee that covers amazon charging you! Also dont blame readers blame amazon and yourselves for allowing it! Change your contract...install new rules between you and amazon! Don't blame the readers for enjoying your work!
Ebooks are not refundable at least not on the sites I use. Hard books yes, ebooks no. Also why would amazon do this? No offense but there aren't libraries all over the world or all over the states
You can access virtual libraries online from pretty much every country for free.
Load More Replies...You deem every authors book is smut? And if they are putting books on Amazon I highly doubt they are banking on surviving off their book sales. Many of these authors have jobs already.
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