“I’ve Been Asking My Male Friends To Do Something – Watch If The First Response To Everything A Woman Tells You Is To Refute, Say No, Or Something Negative”
It’s easy to think that we as a species are living in prosperous times. The degree to which progress (of any caliber) happens and the level of convenience that we have created for ourselves is evidence of that.
However, the struggle is never over. Mostly because there is still a lot of wrong in the world on many levels. Among them, the social and cultural ones.
A woman recently went on Twitter to point out an interesting observation she had. Namely, she noticed how many a man (as in male) is quick to say no whenever a woman is talking, and how it’s anything but healthy.
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The world has come a long way to be where it is now, but it has an equally long way when it comes to equal rights, and one Twitter user is here to explain why
Image credits: W_Asherah
An electrical engineer, who introduced herself online as Toph Cassandra Beifong, not too long ago went on Twitter to share an observation she had.
Toph has AuDHD, Autism and ADHD mashed together. Besides all of the self-explanatory things these two factors entail, folks with this diagnosis have a different way of thinking. In Toph’s own words, her “autistic brain has to learn by observation” as she does not pick up on social cues the way folks outside the spectrum do. She learns them by observing patterns.
One of the patterns she noticed, however, is how men resist ideas (or anything, really) proposed by women without really considering them, with no basis. This is a constant struggle for women, having to prepare a defense for everything they might propose and experiencing unnecessary anxiety along the way. Needless to say that in the long run, it ain’t good for your mental health.
Toph Cassandra Beifong shared an observation she had whereby she noticed how men’s initial knee-jerk reaction to anything a woman says is “no”
Image credits: W_Asherah
Image credits: W_Asherah
Image credits: W_Asherah
Image credits: W_Asherah
The constant struggle of having to “prepare a defense for everything” is not only tiring but not good for one’s mental health, and Toph explains that women go through this on the daily
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Toph shared an example of this from discussions with married women who deal with men flat-out resisting their ideas. When one of them was out shopping, she wanted to try out this black toothpaste. The husband was against it. The woman bought it anyway. The man ended up liking it. Sooner or later, they just stop arguing because they don’t want yet another toothpaste debate.
Another argument that had some “resounding no’s” being thrown at this one man’s sister over something insignificant quickly led to the sister asking “what exactly are you resisting?” That’s when the man remembered what Toph told him—to watch for these moments of automatic no’s.
Image credits: W_Asherah
Image credits: W_Asherah
Image credits: W_Asherah
Image credits: W_Asherah
Image credits: W_Asherah
“It’s socialized resistance to women speaking—and every man I know does it either subconsciously or consciously,” elaborated Toph. In yet another case, she also explained how the wife calls the husband’s best friend to make certain decisions, as the “nope” thing is now getting way out of hand.
Toph concluded that this thread is not for debate—it shouldn’t even be a question at this point. Women experience this kind of resistance every day, and it’s anything but good.
And folks on Twitter couldn’t agree more. Besides relaying this from their own experiences, people also shared similar situations that share the same vibe. Namely, it’s times when women tend to be much more interrupted in conversations and debates, and even situations when men re-word the same ideas women just said and they get a more enthusiastic response than the women did.
Twitter was all in on this idea, sharing stories, pointing out similar situations, and even providing solutions on how to deal with it
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Some suggested avoiding debates and conversations with men altogether, if possible, and yet others suggested rephrasing statements into questions, and instead of claiming or stating a fact or intention, suggest it as an inquiry. It’s said to work more effectively this way.
Whatever the case, Toph’s tweet went viral, garnering over 85,000 likes and 17,300 retweets. And, if anything, it speaks volumes on how much more progress humanity needs to make on a social and cultural level for things to truly be equal.
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According to the World Bank, even now, there only 6 countries that have absolute equal rights for men and women when it comes to the workplace. More so, almost 40% of all economies have sets of laws that constrain women’s decisions to join and remain in the labor force. And the highest (most equality) score that is out there belongs to the high income OECD countries, and even that is 97.8 out of a perfect 100. And that’s just economics. You get the point.
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You can check out the Twitter thread in context here. But before you leave us, leave some food for thought that is hopefully not in the form of a “no” in the comment section below!
A guy friend told me last week “feminism is the worst thing that has ever happened to women” and I was so shocked that I didn’t know what to say. Posts like this are helping me realize what I should have said :) I’m beating myself up hard over it
What he meant was "Feminism is the worst thing that has ever happened to women because now they know how to voice opinions and demand due respect so now us menfolk actually have to make an effort".
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What I find most frustrating is all the replies asking the lines of "if you phrase it as a question they will react better". So, if I cede all the social power to them it'll be better received. Yes. That's sort of the problem. I don't think I ever noticed this so explicitly before, but I tend to resist this sort of behavior when I think it's out of line, so it explains a few conversations I've had with people about my "attitude". One way I've resolved some of this, honestly, is that I stopped coloring my hair. I'm pretty short which caused a lot of people to assume I was young. Now with the gray at my temples showing I get a little less pushback. I haven't quite figured out what I think about that yet.
yes, agreed! having to walk on eggshells in a very particular way to avoid hurting a man's ego so he can consider something i say isn't exactly less work than just arguing it to begin with??
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Guess I've lucked out with my partner and the men in my life as this isn't my experience and not even with my male boss as work. Sounds exhausting.
I was thinking the same thing. My male collegues and boss never say no unless it's followed with an explanation of why my suggestion wouldn't work. The only one who does this in my circle is my mom.😀
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I finally asked my boyfriend, "Why did you just assume I was wrong?". He has a form of arthritis and was hurting one night, and I suggested an epsom salt bath, and he immediately rolled his eyes and said that wouldn't hurt. I had to look up an article that suggested epsom salts for *that particular type of arthritis* and sent it to him, but that was the default - that I didn't know what I was talking about. And I don't understand. He knows I'm smart, but he still assumes I'm wrong unless I prove otherwise, when I don't do the same to him.
My ex-husband was like this. I would say something like "our 4-year-old needs new shoes", and he would counter with "no he doesn't, we just bought him shoes 6 months ago." I sadly learned to start every request with a detailed explanation and multi-part response to his objections. Life is much more peaceful since the divorce since I can take care of what my kids and I need without having a discussion every single time.
How did he not understand that kids turn new shoes into garbage in approximately one week? That's what it feels like to me at least
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About 5 years ago, I reconnected with a man I'd known in high school. It hasn't been the easiest 5 years for me between caring for my dying father, having to clean out and sell his house, and my own multiple medical conditions. But every time he wants to meet up and I literally can't, there's a 20-minute discussion during which he makes multiple attempts to override my decision...and it's bloody exhausting having to constantly repeat that I can't f*****g do it because I have obligations. Which he clearly doesn't respect.
Nikki I'm sorry to hear about your dying father...I send you my condolences. You seem like an intelligent woman who is very aware of how she is being treated by the man you're referring to. If it's a relationship that is worth it, I hope you can point out and discuss with him how he isn't respecting you or your obligations. He does sound exhausting and the tone of your post sounds like you're fed up. I heard this line from a movie a long time ago and I live by it regarding friends and relationships...I'd rather be alone for the right reasons than with someone for the wrong ones. I don't have a lot of people in my life because a lot of them are toxic and life is too f*cking short. Good luck and I hope things can work out for you!
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oh s**t i have to work on this, i had no idea this was an issue. i just realized i almost always lightly debate, try to educate or try to redirect my wife when she suggests things....
Holy cr** I thought it was my hubby that only did this, Jen D mentioned that she gave up speaking in her home with 3 males (2 minors). I and my daughters wait til hubby leaves the dinner table and laugh at him. Power in allies?
This was the way with my ex. I started out with two things, eventually. I would have ready what I meant and something I really didn't care about. For example, two ideas for what to do for the weekend. I knew he would always disregard the first one-so I'd make the second one what I wanted to do. This was something I started at the end of our marriage and continued with every discussion of custody over school breaks. Never failed. It was when I started doing this that I knew I needed to get out of that marriage. My second husband isn't like this and I never feel like I have to plan anything I say to him.
My Ex HATED it whenever I said No or wasn't into a thing. It would start a several minutes long argument, with him pressuring me into it, and me continuing to decline. He didn't like "No means NO!" God help me on the inverse. If I was into a thing and HE wasn't interested, it was a two hour long argument; not about him joining me in doing the thing, but about why I needed to give it up!
It's the other way round with me and my wife but I see it as a good thing. Frustrating but good. I'm the kind of guy who can be a bit too spontaneous (booking expensive trips on a whim, buying stuff we don't need) and need to be sense-checked. Before I met her, all my credit cards were maxed out and I'd just live from pay check to pay check. To be clear, she doesn't really stop me from doing stuff but she draws me into a debate about whether this is sensible and she almost always wins.
I can be extremely petty so when I notice someone is unwilling to listen to my suggestions and they force us to go for whatever they want to go for, I just step back and let them do it. I'm all in for receiving feedback and criticism, but if this is how you wanna go for it, then go for it - I'll be here and watch you rub baby oil tissues all over the tv screen because you think it will get rid of the stains and fingerprints and you refuse to listen to me when I say you need a microfiber cloth or some screen cleaner.
My technique I always called "planting a seed". I will say something, like "We should get new curtains" and then just leave it out there. Month or so later, suddenly it is " Hey babe I have been thinking,lets go look at window treatments this weekend" Sure dear....lololll.
Holy cow! I couldn't explain this and I didn't understand it. Was sexually abused so there's that. My ex was abusive but I raised out son and he is a kind feminist. But when it comes to me all I get is kick back. One day we were talking and he asked me what I was talking about and I said, "Oh nothing, I'm just waxing rhapsodic" and he said, "That's not real. None of those are real words". I gave birth to him when I was 34. I couldn't have learned something in 34 years? Something he doesn't know? He quickly googled it and corrected himself. Idiot.
I read this yesterday but didn't "absorb" it. A few hours later, I replied to a man on a FB post. He immediately told me I was wrong, then mansplained my own post back to me--agreeing with what I said. And the sad part is, we're so conditioned as women to simply accept this behavior I didn't even think about it until I woke up this morning and thought, OMG! This is exactly what she was talking about!
I would like to hear some opinions outside of US. I dont know if I didnt notice or it just isnt that way in Europe. of course there are men who think their opinion is more valid than someone's who is a woman, but that applies also to other races, religions, younger men...you name it. these are just AH to anyone. but I havent noticed this attitude in average men
My boyfriend the other day said something about his arthritis acting up and I suggested an epsom salt bath. He immediately rolled his eyes and asked what good that would do. I had to find an article that recommended epsom salt baths for *that particular type of arthritis* to prove my point, but it made me ask him, "Why do you just assume I don't know what I'm talking about?" He knows I'm smart, yet his default is still I must be wrong unless proven otherwise. I hope I got through to him, but it's frustrating. I see the same thing with my brothers all the time. They just assume I'm wrong, but will give my other brothers the benefit of the doubt.
Did I misread this? It is a one way street? It never happens the other way? I'm not trying to start a fight, I found the article written in a manner hard to understand.
Sounds like a power play. Women don't want to obey a man. Men don't want to obey a woman.
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A guy friend told me last week “feminism is the worst thing that has ever happened to women” and I was so shocked that I didn’t know what to say. Posts like this are helping me realize what I should have said :) I’m beating myself up hard over it
What he meant was "Feminism is the worst thing that has ever happened to women because now they know how to voice opinions and demand due respect so now us menfolk actually have to make an effort".
Load More Replies... What I find most frustrating is all the replies asking the lines of "if you phrase it as a question they will react better". So, if I cede all the social power to them it'll be better received. Yes. That's sort of the problem. I don't think I ever noticed this so explicitly before, but I tend to resist this sort of behavior when I think it's out of line, so it explains a few conversations I've had with people about my "attitude". One way I've resolved some of this, honestly, is that I stopped coloring my hair. I'm pretty short which caused a lot of people to assume I was young. Now with the gray at my temples showing I get a little less pushback. I haven't quite figured out what I think about that yet.
yes, agreed! having to walk on eggshells in a very particular way to avoid hurting a man's ego so he can consider something i say isn't exactly less work than just arguing it to begin with??
Load More Replies... Guess I've lucked out with my partner and the men in my life as this isn't my experience and not even with my male boss as work. Sounds exhausting.
I was thinking the same thing. My male collegues and boss never say no unless it's followed with an explanation of why my suggestion wouldn't work. The only one who does this in my circle is my mom.😀
Load More Replies... I finally asked my boyfriend, "Why did you just assume I was wrong?". He has a form of arthritis and was hurting one night, and I suggested an epsom salt bath, and he immediately rolled his eyes and said that wouldn't hurt. I had to look up an article that suggested epsom salts for *that particular type of arthritis* and sent it to him, but that was the default - that I didn't know what I was talking about. And I don't understand. He knows I'm smart, but he still assumes I'm wrong unless I prove otherwise, when I don't do the same to him.
My ex-husband was like this. I would say something like "our 4-year-old needs new shoes", and he would counter with "no he doesn't, we just bought him shoes 6 months ago." I sadly learned to start every request with a detailed explanation and multi-part response to his objections. Life is much more peaceful since the divorce since I can take care of what my kids and I need without having a discussion every single time.
How did he not understand that kids turn new shoes into garbage in approximately one week? That's what it feels like to me at least
Load More Replies... About 5 years ago, I reconnected with a man I'd known in high school. It hasn't been the easiest 5 years for me between caring for my dying father, having to clean out and sell his house, and my own multiple medical conditions. But every time he wants to meet up and I literally can't, there's a 20-minute discussion during which he makes multiple attempts to override my decision...and it's bloody exhausting having to constantly repeat that I can't f*****g do it because I have obligations. Which he clearly doesn't respect.
Nikki I'm sorry to hear about your dying father...I send you my condolences. You seem like an intelligent woman who is very aware of how she is being treated by the man you're referring to. If it's a relationship that is worth it, I hope you can point out and discuss with him how he isn't respecting you or your obligations. He does sound exhausting and the tone of your post sounds like you're fed up. I heard this line from a movie a long time ago and I live by it regarding friends and relationships...I'd rather be alone for the right reasons than with someone for the wrong ones. I don't have a lot of people in my life because a lot of them are toxic and life is too f*cking short. Good luck and I hope things can work out for you!
Load More Replies... oh s**t i have to work on this, i had no idea this was an issue. i just realized i almost always lightly debate, try to educate or try to redirect my wife when she suggests things....
Holy cr** I thought it was my hubby that only did this, Jen D mentioned that she gave up speaking in her home with 3 males (2 minors). I and my daughters wait til hubby leaves the dinner table and laugh at him. Power in allies?
This was the way with my ex. I started out with two things, eventually. I would have ready what I meant and something I really didn't care about. For example, two ideas for what to do for the weekend. I knew he would always disregard the first one-so I'd make the second one what I wanted to do. This was something I started at the end of our marriage and continued with every discussion of custody over school breaks. Never failed. It was when I started doing this that I knew I needed to get out of that marriage. My second husband isn't like this and I never feel like I have to plan anything I say to him.
My Ex HATED it whenever I said No or wasn't into a thing. It would start a several minutes long argument, with him pressuring me into it, and me continuing to decline. He didn't like "No means NO!" God help me on the inverse. If I was into a thing and HE wasn't interested, it was a two hour long argument; not about him joining me in doing the thing, but about why I needed to give it up!
It's the other way round with me and my wife but I see it as a good thing. Frustrating but good. I'm the kind of guy who can be a bit too spontaneous (booking expensive trips on a whim, buying stuff we don't need) and need to be sense-checked. Before I met her, all my credit cards were maxed out and I'd just live from pay check to pay check. To be clear, she doesn't really stop me from doing stuff but she draws me into a debate about whether this is sensible and she almost always wins.
I can be extremely petty so when I notice someone is unwilling to listen to my suggestions and they force us to go for whatever they want to go for, I just step back and let them do it. I'm all in for receiving feedback and criticism, but if this is how you wanna go for it, then go for it - I'll be here and watch you rub baby oil tissues all over the tv screen because you think it will get rid of the stains and fingerprints and you refuse to listen to me when I say you need a microfiber cloth or some screen cleaner.
My technique I always called "planting a seed". I will say something, like "We should get new curtains" and then just leave it out there. Month or so later, suddenly it is " Hey babe I have been thinking,lets go look at window treatments this weekend" Sure dear....lololll.
Holy cow! I couldn't explain this and I didn't understand it. Was sexually abused so there's that. My ex was abusive but I raised out son and he is a kind feminist. But when it comes to me all I get is kick back. One day we were talking and he asked me what I was talking about and I said, "Oh nothing, I'm just waxing rhapsodic" and he said, "That's not real. None of those are real words". I gave birth to him when I was 34. I couldn't have learned something in 34 years? Something he doesn't know? He quickly googled it and corrected himself. Idiot.
I read this yesterday but didn't "absorb" it. A few hours later, I replied to a man on a FB post. He immediately told me I was wrong, then mansplained my own post back to me--agreeing with what I said. And the sad part is, we're so conditioned as women to simply accept this behavior I didn't even think about it until I woke up this morning and thought, OMG! This is exactly what she was talking about!
I would like to hear some opinions outside of US. I dont know if I didnt notice or it just isnt that way in Europe. of course there are men who think their opinion is more valid than someone's who is a woman, but that applies also to other races, religions, younger men...you name it. these are just AH to anyone. but I havent noticed this attitude in average men
My boyfriend the other day said something about his arthritis acting up and I suggested an epsom salt bath. He immediately rolled his eyes and asked what good that would do. I had to find an article that recommended epsom salt baths for *that particular type of arthritis* to prove my point, but it made me ask him, "Why do you just assume I don't know what I'm talking about?" He knows I'm smart, yet his default is still I must be wrong unless proven otherwise. I hope I got through to him, but it's frustrating. I see the same thing with my brothers all the time. They just assume I'm wrong, but will give my other brothers the benefit of the doubt.
Did I misread this? It is a one way street? It never happens the other way? I'm not trying to start a fight, I found the article written in a manner hard to understand.
Sounds like a power play. Women don't want to obey a man. Men don't want to obey a woman.
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