‘Not Available For Calls During Off Hours’: Manager Is Puzzled Whether He Was Right To Scold A Pregnant Woman For ‘Slacking’
While it’s vital to treat all employees equally, it’s just as important to be aware of significant circumstances in their life that might affect their work and then react appropriately. One office manager wanted to know if they were a jerk for telling an employee that pregnancy “is not an excuse for low productivity,” so they posted their story on the AITA subreddit.
The community overwhelmingly branded the redditor a jerk and some commenters went into detail about exactly why they were being insensitive (beyond the obvious). Have a read through the OP’s story yourselves, dear Pandas, and let us know what your take on the situation is. What would you have done personally? Oh, and a gentle reminder to keep things friendly, in the words of one of the moderators of the AITA community, Moggehh: “I know everyone wants to call OP [a jerk] but he gets it by now and not enough of you are [being civil].”
Eddy Ng, the James and Elizabeth Freeman Professor of Management at Bucknell University, was kind enough to give Bored Panda some legal perspective about the responsibilities of employees and employers in the United States and spoke about how some colleagues can develop prejudice against pregnant coworkers.
An office manager wanted to get the internet’s take about whether or not they’re a jerk for demanding that a pregnant employee be just as productive as before
Image credits: futurestreet (not the actual photo)
Image credits: Unfair-Raspberry-108
“In the US, pregnancy and maternity falls under the FMLA (Family and Medical Leave Act). This implies that pregnancy requires some type of workplace accommodation. Employees can use up to 12 weeks of time off during pregnancy (for ‘pregnancy disability’) or after to recover and care for the newborn,” Professor Ng from Bucknell University explained to Bored Panda.
He highlighted the fact that the employee is responsible for conveying this information, “including any type of workplace accommodation requests (type of work, schedules),” so that they can “continue to work productively.” Meanwhile, the employer’s duty is to accommodate such requests “to the point of undue hardship.” The professor said that that this isn’t specifically defined, but can usually be understood in terms of resources and finances.
Prejudice against pregnant women, unfortunately, is nothing new in pretty much any workplace. “Managers and colleagues do develop prejudice of pregnant employees and view them as less competent or productive during this period. As a result, many employees hide their pregnancy from their managers,” Professor Ng said.
This means that there needs to be two-way communication very early on in the pregnancy so that employees can set expectations as soon as they can. “Employees need to know they are valued before and during pregnancy while employers should provide the necessary accommodations, including making adjustments to workload, to retain them following pregnancy. There is also a need to create awareness and train managers on providing proper support to pregnant employees.”
Here’s the r/AITA community’s verdict
One redditor shared some incredibly important information about pregnancy that some people might not have known about. They spoke about HG (hyperemesis gravidarum) which is excessive nausea and vomiting that can lead to a woman even needing hospital treatment.
The NHS reports that HG can affect 1 to 3 women in every 100, but some cases might go unreported. “If you are being sick frequently and cannot keep food down, tell your midwife or doctor, or contact the hospital as soon as possible. There is a risk you may become dehydrated, and your midwife or doctor can make sure you get the right treatment.”
Of course, we can’t confirm if the pregnant employee has HG or not. But as some redditors stressed, even if she doesn’t have HG, her manager’s behavior wasn’t up to scratch.
Meanwhile, other redditors pointed out that putting the employee’s pregnancy aside, the entire work culture at the original poster’s company should be the focus of criticism for its long hours.
I love how he says "she already took a sick day" as if this was illegal. America's job ethics and health system, ladies and gentlemen!
@mewton: sick is sick. Never mind if one day or five.Nothing your boss can solve with complaining or shouting
Load More Replies...yes, like there are degrees of pregnancy.... you are or you aren't!
Load More Replies..."only in her first trimester". How can someone be so uneducated? There may be some lucky women, but everyone should know that it is particularly the first trimester that can be very hard due to the body adjusting to the pregancy. This is nothing where "discipline" would help. Applause to the women also for refusing to take something against the headache...the less medicine taken in the pregnancy, the better for the development of the fetus!
Hans I gently suggest that you back off the claims about medicine in pregnancy, it's much more complex than you suggest. For example, I have an autoimmune disorder and the medication I took during pregnancy allowed both me and my now three year old to survive. You're making a blanket statement about something that isn't generalisable. Fear of taking medication in pregnancy is a real thing and does lead to illness and death in some cases where women were too frightened to take medicine they needed. The rest of your post I agree with. I was lucky not to get morning sickness but 10 or so weeks in my pelvis fell apart and I was in agony for the rest of my pregnancy.
Load More Replies...Without the pregnant, he's still the asshole for the working conditions.
Right? No one is entitled to your time and if there is a monetary compensation for part of the day, it is just that, a promise to work during the hours you promised to be there. If you can't do a job within those hours, you have too much work or not enough employees.
Load More Replies...You are being an asshole to everyone, not just the pregnant employee. The right question is who profits on the exploitation of the staff. Why is it necessary to work 24/7 ? Why can't you hire temporary workers? People are just blind to the chosen inequalities of the system and think it's natural. It is not.
Agreed. It sounds like his staff are all required to give up there lives for this job.
Load More Replies...Wow. The amount of ignorance in this. The mere fact this guy thinks morning sickness is only in the morning... Instead of writing this post the dude could have done some basic effing Googling and find out that the first and third semesters are the most difficult. Many women think they have THE FLU before they realize they are pregnant. This is the kind of guy that compares maternity leave to a long vacation and like a C-section isn't a big procedure
I often wonder if these guys ever had any operation on their guts. I had one, a laughable small one, but still it left a chronic pain issue and still the areas where they went through all layers hurt as hell - and the longest cut was, like, 4 or 5 cm right below the belly button. Whenever you open someone's womb, no matter how small or for what reason, said person should know this is neither a matter of any of the above, but will cause a lot of pain. A C-section, however ... well, the cut must be large enough to get a living human, although of the smallest kind, through it, and not just some gallstones...
Load More Replies...Regardless of the pregnancy issue, the office conditions sound absolutely inhuman anyway. Working until 9 at night? Answering calls when you are at home? Your manager deciding when you can go to the doctor and how much sick leave is "acceptable"? That office sounds like a dystopian nightmare.
I'm pregnant, I'm ending my first trimestr and I'm offended from this post and feel very sorry for that lady. It was hell! Morning sickness is called "morning" probably because it starts in morning and never ends. You are sleepy all the time. Always. And yes, you need to eat every few hours otherwise you are even more sick. That jerk with lack of human feelings should read more before posting. Posts like this make me appreciate my work enviroment and my supporting partner. Thanks God I don't have to deal with such a situation. Hang on there sister, it will get better.
If she's too sick to work, she should be on temporary disability. Anyone in a supervisory position should know this. Every American employee pays into the disability insurance system.
You think she's going to be approved for temporary disability because of pregnancy? What fairy world do you live in?
Load More Replies...This woman would be home on doctor's orders here in Germany, with full pay, for the entire course of her pregnancy. She clearly needs it. Some people have a really hard time being pregnant. ALSO: what kind of crap job expects you to be available round the clock, pregnant or not?!
What an asshole. Nobody would ever expect a male employee to be 100% productive while vomiting daily and suffering from headaches. And "it was her choice to become pregnant, so it's not an excuse" is the most ignorant bullshit ever. If you want to have (biological) children, you don't have a f*****g choice? It's not like she can ask her husband to carry the baby.
He's an a-hole on many levels. Not just from the way he treats his pregnant employee but the way he treats his employees in general. Expecting them to be available at his call 24/7. They don't owe their lives to their employer. If the Pandemic has taught us anything it's that the lower your job pays the more essential you are to the US economy.
USA, one of the few countries without maternity leave. In most others countries, she would probably be on medical leave followed by maternity leave. And such talk by a manager would get you in serious trouble.
Ok I've had 4 kids. I was 18, 21,28 and 30. My first two (after morning sickness) I was fine the rest of the pregnancy and went straight back to work. My last two I was miserable the entire time. Tired hurting and all I wanted to do was sleep. That is also around the time I found out I had thyroid issues. What I am saying is every woman is different, and every pregnancy is different. She could be lying and milking the situation, or she could be really having a hard time. If she was a great worker before pregnancy, than I would go ahead and give her the benefit if the doubt and assume she really is having a rough time and try to go easy on her for a while.
So true. I had my first kid 9 days after my 20th birthday and my second kid when I was 26. My first was a breeze. I threw up once in the morning and was fine for the rest of the day. I didn't even show until I was 7 months along. 24 hours after giving birth I was up and around like nothing happened. My second I threw up all day every day for 3 months. I was tired and barely able to function. I was also huge and carried bigger. I could barely walk to the bathroom after I had my second for a few weeks. Every pregnancy is different even without health problems. If I were him I would cut her some slack and try to remember that she's growing a HUMAN. She has a baby in her that is literally taking everything it needs from her body and it doesn't care she is needed at work.
Load More Replies...There are medications that are safe for pregnant when with horrible morning sickness. You might want to tell her to talk to her obgyn about it. Next. Fire yourself. Your an idiot and mean. And if you have no compassion for a pregnant woman who is suffering then you shouldn't be anyone's supervisor. You should also tell her to report you to HR.
The medicine I took for morning sickness was phenergen. And it would knock me out.
Load More Replies...I managed a team and had a similar situation in that one of the ladies had a terrible morning sickness problem. Two months in, I had to put her on sick leave (as far as I remember the company had to pay the first 28 weeks and the rest was covered with what's called Statutory Sick Pay in the UK). Yes, it was massively disruptive to the rest of the team as we had to pick up the slack but surely her health was more important that our workloads for the 7 months she was off... This "work is more important than life" attitude so prevalent in America needs to die a horrible death.
Also, it's laughable that they require employees to be available 24/7 unless they pay them megabucks (which I doubt considering they work under an office manager).
Load More Replies...He's a minor asshole. The major asshole is someone above both in the hieracharchy, who applies too much pressure on him, which he hands down to his team, as expected - this just isn't a 21st-century-compatible set of ethics on the companies part, and he could stand up for her instead of playing his role in this game of exploitation.
It's still his reasoning and lack of compassion and ignorance about pregnancy and female biology. Also not believing your wife and turning to the internet for answers is very interesting too.
Load More Replies...For a manager, he certainly can't manage a "normal bodily function"!
One of my colleagues occasionally took a sick day. One of her emails read, "This baby-making process is really taking a toll." Her pregnancy was actually fun, as I made up stories about Captain Littlepants working as rescue helicopter pilot (we made websites for aviation).
Load More Replies..."I made concessions" Fool, until you're able to get pregnant you have no idea. My SIL just got prego for the first time and barely within the first 6-10 weeks and has already been in the hospital (a couple of times) for how sick she has been. The worst morning sickness I've ever seen and I had it pretty bad with my own son. People are stupid.
She may have Hyperemesis gravidarum. I ended up in the hospital twice because of it. Sick all day and night. Couldn’t keep anything down not even water. It’s awful. People truly have no idea until they experience.
Load More Replies...If you have to ask if you're a jerk, then you already know you're a jerk.
His comment on 'normal bodily functions' and feminist movement is a particular disgrace, dude hasn't even been through a menstruation.
I understand both sides. Of course you expext full work power.and I bet she thought (as I did before) beeing pregnant is not a sickness. BUT.... a pregnancy is some kind of sickness for a human body. Some woman don't even know they are pregnant untill delivery. Other woman are sick from the very first weeks. Do your resurch what a pregnancy means to a human body, like bioligy-wise (not a native english speaker so please oversee any grammar mistakes). When I was pregnant with mh twins. I was sick, I lost a hell lot of weight, I was tired. I was hospitalized at 5 months along and noone would have guessed that I was pregnant. I was skinnier than ever before. So at the end: she might have had other plans. But her body told her otherwise. Producing a huming beeing within your very own body is a miracle. And I bet she will come out so much stronger as she has ever been. Appreciate it! Please!!!! Give her a chance and she will be gladly paying you back. She will be the lioness of your company.
I've been in this pregnant employees exact position. I had HG for several months and my employer phoned to tell me I had to come in because his lawyer said pregnancy is not an illness. I did and it was absolute hell, I couldn't move or function in any way. Fortunately this happened in Europe, where workers rights exist, and I found a lawyer who made sure I was taken care of, and then some. I very much hope the woman in the OP can do the same.
How can you be this stupid and still breathe let alone hold a management position, he doesn't realize how lucky he is for not getting fired already for treating a very sick employee like a slave
During my first tremester, a part of my hair went to white because of the extreme morning sickness. They call it morning, but it was whole day sickness. I lost 8 pounds in three months, needed iv fluid cause I could not drink water three days in a week. My mum thought I was lying her so she would not be upset that I had a cancer and keeping it as a secret. After 8 years I still can not forget how vomiting all day was horrible.
When I was pregnant with my daughter I was sick for nearly half of my first trimester. "Morning" sickness? What a joke. During the worst of it I was sleeping on the bathroom floor for 3 weeks because I was CONSTANTLY vomiting. I couldn't hold down WATER. I had just been hired for a new job but hadn't been put on the schedule yet, I had to call them and refuse the job because I had no idea when I'd be able to work. Once I was in my 2nd trimester I was fine, didn't have any issue whatsoever (well, my ankles swelled, I quit using salt after that) until I went into labor, and even that was easy compared to my first trimester.
Load More Replies...Hire more people. No one should have to work 24/7 for a company, especially not someone who is ill.
So glad I don’t live in America. What an asshole. And the fact that the system even favours his side/view of things. Absolutely horrendous
This is why America is sick. Why there is so many mental health problems, so much anxiety, and so much stress. Which can all lead to addictions from prescriptions. It's a ripple affect. We can't keep up with demands of those like this bastard. I will never understand this kind behavior from a boss, ever. I hope he was humbled and severely disappointed with himself and his behavior. I hope he now understands, is compassionate and becomes the exact opposite.
It is really tough because on a business level you need productivity. On a human level there needs to be slack. For a male, especially, to say "no excuse" is a dipshit move and it erases all the good things he did do. Pregnancy is different for everyone. I had a rougher 2nd pregnancy and I shortened my shifts (We staffed our own hours with each other). Co workers were not happy - a woman with a grown daughter and a fatherless male. The man originally said he understood and if I need time off, etc, they were there for me. That was because I had an emotional issue one day and threw an adult temper tantrum and had to tell all I was expecting.
Usually the business would be fine, but the owners want more profit on expense of the work of other people
Load More Replies...I also had hyper-emesis and I lost weight and became dehydrated. Nothing, and I mean nothing I swallowed stayed down!! Worst experience ever!!!
I had a friend who had morning sickness so badly that she had to take suppository medicine because she was vomiting so much.
I worked the Christmas rush and felt great during my first pregnancy. I slept constancy and vomited several times a day with my sencon
I had Hyperemesis gravidarum it was beyond awful. I’ve never been so sick in my life. I lost 12 pounds in one month and ended up in the hospital twice for severe dehydration and had to be hooked up to fluids. I couldn’t even keep water down or saltine crackers. And most doctors can’t or won’t prescribe nausea medicine because they say a lot of it can cause birth defects or it’s risky to take while pregnant. So women just suffer. Sometimes it’s just for the first trimester sometimes it’s for the entire pregnancy. Yes she chose to get pregnant she didn’t choose to get sick. You don’t know ahead of time of this pregnancy will make u deathly sick or not. You have no idea until u actually feel symptoms of it.
Tbh like I understand it can be hard, we had a waitress that was pregnant we had a stool in the back so she could sit and take a break and get water, we would make her a small snakc and stuff ,I've never been pregnant but it looks exhausting!!! So ya you are being a jerk
There are two sides to every story. Boredpanda should have printed Cara's side also.
Must be American. The fact that it's expected the staff be available 24/7? Damn. Putting all the bull**it aside about the lack of understanding regarding her pregnancy, that's the firs thing wrong with that story.
i'm seriously worried of that work environement. what the hell is expected there? be available 24 hours 7 days a week? during off hours AND holidays too?? what productivity, are you talking about humans or robots? whater are the human rights and employee rights in this whole things? and DON'T get me started on the pregnacy. a man lacking total empthaty not only for a woman but for a human been. he should be ashamed he is a complete asshole, and on top of that he's apinting himself as a good understanding perosn. if i was the pregnant woman i would look for another job. one that respects my rights for time outside the work and that also allows me to live my life, not only work. imagine how things will be after she gives birth. she really has to look into something better than this crap excuse of a job.
Dude's lucky she still shows up. I'd have quit by now, even if I wasn't pregnant, because I don't work for assholes. You start treating me like s**t, you're gonna have to find someone else to be shitty to, because my ass is GONE.
Damn dude. You got SLAMMED. I genuinely hope this guy is quite young and completely inexperienced. Otherwise, he's got sociopathic issues.
Disability Case Manager-on-hiatus here: The biggest issue I see with this is that section where he tried to mansplain pregnancy to her. "first trimester and barely pregnant" is a very flippant attitude. For many of those who are pregnant, the first trimester could, indeed be very benign - however, the poster already outlined some very obvious issues. The problem I see is the reaction. The first thing is - the employee tried to continue working and the manager made concessions and adaptions to her regular work (the hours, extra time for appointments, etc) - which is fine. As it would appear she was unable to continue working even with the modification in place, he should have discussed with her maybe partial disability leave or even further modified duties upon medical recommendation - which is where disability management comes in. If there **is no disability plan** for the employees... now THERE'S a problem.
This is pretty much the definition of prejudice and discrimination and the reason why many countries have laws to protect employees from this kind of thing. Thank God I don't work at that place! I wonder if his employees get paid to be available 24 hours a day or word late into the night, how is this kind of thing acceptable in the 21st century.
She is actually making a person. A PERSON! That takes a lot of energy and places great strain on the body even in the best circumstances. She is having some side effects from pregnancy. Your employees are people, and people are imperfect. There are times they will not be as productive, but can still get the job done. Pregnancy is temporary.
As someone in an industry that has a defined busy period, if you’re going to staff your company so that people are doing a lot of OT then, you have to be prepared for problems to occur during that time. January-March 2020 sucked worse for me than the actual pandemic (although I live in New Zealand so our definition of “pandemic” differs from the US) because we had to let someone go in late December 2019 and we knew that training a newbie would take as much time as biting the bullet and doing the work ourselves until things calmed down. Boss (who’s British, NZ can’t claim credit for this) paid OT and gave us big bonuses. So this is a time for this person to reflect on how they want to staff their company in future. Do they want to hire more people and accept that finances will be tighter during the quiet periods? Or do they want to accept that situations like this will happen and pay OT, etc to those who cover?
I got steroid poisoning and could be move and my boss had no problem with me not being at work because she knew that I was sick. If she had fought the facts, I would have just quit.
The same sort of moron who puts sales taxes/VATs on menstrual products because they're "luxury" items.
Is it in her contract to be available off hours? or to do overtime? does the dude intend to compensate the others who do extra work? because if not... how can he ever imagine he were not an AH in the first place, pregnancy aside?
Even with one woman each pregnancy can vary greatly. I had much more morning sickness with my son than I did with my twins. Go figure. I was much more exhausted with the twins which makes sense. But for this guy to say pregnancy is a "normal bodily function" as if that means that makes them all equal is ridiculous. Even bowel movements (a bodily functions) aren't consistent, hence the existence of diarrhea and constipation. . .
I feel her pain, i always knew I was pregnant within the first 2 weeks, horrible nausea, vomiting all day cant keep anything down, even water. That dude is ONE HUUUUGE POS!
There's no such thing as barely pregnant. Would you say someone barely has cancer or barely has AIDS? Either you're pregnant or you're not. It's not multiple choice. Most women breeze through it as women have been doing since Eve. But men used to have more respect for pregnant women.
'clara' needs a new job, her manager so has clearly never known a pregnant lady, wish her a healthy pregnancy.
I have seen several women suffer so much with sickness, the first three month, one even had to be hospitalized. The hormonal onlsaught is terrifying. My sister took weeks off work, just lying on the sofa in pain and nauseous and unable to move. I guess this is what happens if you cancel sex-ED in a country. noone learns anything about reproduction and hormones. Well, at least, he now knows what a comlete d*ck he is.
Yep, he's the @ss (unless of course she's one of those that takes advantage, there are always those... but I am betting this isn't the case). I have been pregnant twice and have been miserably sick all the way through both times. With my last pregnancy I weighed the same thing at the end as I did at the beginning because I lost so much weight that it negated the extra 30 or so pounds of baby and fluids. I can't imagine how much worse it would have been if I had started out without 30 pounds to spare. I am so lucky that I am both able to work from home and had the support of my coworkers and management both times. Imagine for a moment what it would be like to have to work in an office when you feel nauseous basically all day long and could throw up at any given moment, weak from dehydration and nutrient loss. And the anti-nausea meds make you so constipated that sometimes you just lay on the floor in pain, sweating, weak, and unable to will yourself to get up.
And when I say all the way through, I mean I started vomiting at 6 weeks with the first and didn't stop until delivery, and I think it started one week earlier with my second. But the second made up for it by coming a week early at least, so it evened out. I through up in labor with the first, and the second I threw up a couple hours afterwards when I ate my first real food in a day or two. I am normally not one that throws up, but pregnancy is not my friend.
Load More Replies...Sometimes I feel that only a woman can understand another woman's problems. I hope she requested to speak with a female higher up. Speaking to a man about this could be uncomfortable for her too meaning she might not fully explain herself cuz she's embarrassed. I know I was embarrassed when I had to tell my male manager I was having the coil fitted and that I'd need light duties at work for that shift
"crunch time = extra hours without pay" - lol American dream "everyone is expected to answer their phones and emails pretty much round the clock." Do you believe in life after work?
most of the downvoted comments are from MEN and childless women. as i obviously have never been pregnant, i don’t have an opinion on this. however, if you’ve never experienced being pregnant, shut the f**k up. especially MEN. you have no right to say what a woman can do, and you can’t tell her how she should feel during a pregnancy. that’s called mansplaining, if you didn’t know, and women don’t need to be told how our bodies work. 😊
No, he's fully wrong because he didn't manage workload correctly. What do you think happens to the work for people on vacation?
Load More Replies...No Destini, you're a nursing student with the life experience of exactly that. You are not a manager, you have clearly never had a pregnancy that made you sick from the beginning. And yes, that makes you unqualified to have an opinion. All work is not hindered with one employee on half power. She's not slacking, she's sick. Do you notice the overwhelming amount of opposite opinions of people that do have that life's experience and can tell you all about why you're wrong? It's because that's what you are, wrong. A job can wait, this manager clearly doesn't know when peak times come and how to handle those with temps or just managing the workload better. And yeah, I've been pregnant with HG, postpartum and am a manager who would never let any team member down like that.
Load More Replies...If he does fire her at this point, he faces a lawsuit for discrimination bc of her pregnancy. Especially if she comes back with a Dr's note that outlines complications to the pregnancy.
Load More Replies...Yeah your right!! This comment really is going to make you unpopular! Single parents struggling with childcare? Both parents working to cover life costs? Pain in the backside kids that dont get up when asked? (i was one of those). You dont have your own kids i guess? Well, i hope that when you are old and decrepit and need someone to wipe your a**e, that its one of your colleagues kids in a nursing career that has to do it. And they do it with sandpaper....
Load More Replies...Actually, working is something pretty much everyone has to do, while competing in the olympics isn't. Also, work should be adapted to the employee's needs, not the other way.
Load More Replies...I love how he says "she already took a sick day" as if this was illegal. America's job ethics and health system, ladies and gentlemen!
@mewton: sick is sick. Never mind if one day or five.Nothing your boss can solve with complaining or shouting
Load More Replies...yes, like there are degrees of pregnancy.... you are or you aren't!
Load More Replies..."only in her first trimester". How can someone be so uneducated? There may be some lucky women, but everyone should know that it is particularly the first trimester that can be very hard due to the body adjusting to the pregancy. This is nothing where "discipline" would help. Applause to the women also for refusing to take something against the headache...the less medicine taken in the pregnancy, the better for the development of the fetus!
Hans I gently suggest that you back off the claims about medicine in pregnancy, it's much more complex than you suggest. For example, I have an autoimmune disorder and the medication I took during pregnancy allowed both me and my now three year old to survive. You're making a blanket statement about something that isn't generalisable. Fear of taking medication in pregnancy is a real thing and does lead to illness and death in some cases where women were too frightened to take medicine they needed. The rest of your post I agree with. I was lucky not to get morning sickness but 10 or so weeks in my pelvis fell apart and I was in agony for the rest of my pregnancy.
Load More Replies...Without the pregnant, he's still the asshole for the working conditions.
Right? No one is entitled to your time and if there is a monetary compensation for part of the day, it is just that, a promise to work during the hours you promised to be there. If you can't do a job within those hours, you have too much work or not enough employees.
Load More Replies...You are being an asshole to everyone, not just the pregnant employee. The right question is who profits on the exploitation of the staff. Why is it necessary to work 24/7 ? Why can't you hire temporary workers? People are just blind to the chosen inequalities of the system and think it's natural. It is not.
Agreed. It sounds like his staff are all required to give up there lives for this job.
Load More Replies...Wow. The amount of ignorance in this. The mere fact this guy thinks morning sickness is only in the morning... Instead of writing this post the dude could have done some basic effing Googling and find out that the first and third semesters are the most difficult. Many women think they have THE FLU before they realize they are pregnant. This is the kind of guy that compares maternity leave to a long vacation and like a C-section isn't a big procedure
I often wonder if these guys ever had any operation on their guts. I had one, a laughable small one, but still it left a chronic pain issue and still the areas where they went through all layers hurt as hell - and the longest cut was, like, 4 or 5 cm right below the belly button. Whenever you open someone's womb, no matter how small or for what reason, said person should know this is neither a matter of any of the above, but will cause a lot of pain. A C-section, however ... well, the cut must be large enough to get a living human, although of the smallest kind, through it, and not just some gallstones...
Load More Replies...Regardless of the pregnancy issue, the office conditions sound absolutely inhuman anyway. Working until 9 at night? Answering calls when you are at home? Your manager deciding when you can go to the doctor and how much sick leave is "acceptable"? That office sounds like a dystopian nightmare.
I'm pregnant, I'm ending my first trimestr and I'm offended from this post and feel very sorry for that lady. It was hell! Morning sickness is called "morning" probably because it starts in morning and never ends. You are sleepy all the time. Always. And yes, you need to eat every few hours otherwise you are even more sick. That jerk with lack of human feelings should read more before posting. Posts like this make me appreciate my work enviroment and my supporting partner. Thanks God I don't have to deal with such a situation. Hang on there sister, it will get better.
If she's too sick to work, she should be on temporary disability. Anyone in a supervisory position should know this. Every American employee pays into the disability insurance system.
You think she's going to be approved for temporary disability because of pregnancy? What fairy world do you live in?
Load More Replies...This woman would be home on doctor's orders here in Germany, with full pay, for the entire course of her pregnancy. She clearly needs it. Some people have a really hard time being pregnant. ALSO: what kind of crap job expects you to be available round the clock, pregnant or not?!
What an asshole. Nobody would ever expect a male employee to be 100% productive while vomiting daily and suffering from headaches. And "it was her choice to become pregnant, so it's not an excuse" is the most ignorant bullshit ever. If you want to have (biological) children, you don't have a f*****g choice? It's not like she can ask her husband to carry the baby.
He's an a-hole on many levels. Not just from the way he treats his pregnant employee but the way he treats his employees in general. Expecting them to be available at his call 24/7. They don't owe their lives to their employer. If the Pandemic has taught us anything it's that the lower your job pays the more essential you are to the US economy.
USA, one of the few countries without maternity leave. In most others countries, she would probably be on medical leave followed by maternity leave. And such talk by a manager would get you in serious trouble.
Ok I've had 4 kids. I was 18, 21,28 and 30. My first two (after morning sickness) I was fine the rest of the pregnancy and went straight back to work. My last two I was miserable the entire time. Tired hurting and all I wanted to do was sleep. That is also around the time I found out I had thyroid issues. What I am saying is every woman is different, and every pregnancy is different. She could be lying and milking the situation, or she could be really having a hard time. If she was a great worker before pregnancy, than I would go ahead and give her the benefit if the doubt and assume she really is having a rough time and try to go easy on her for a while.
So true. I had my first kid 9 days after my 20th birthday and my second kid when I was 26. My first was a breeze. I threw up once in the morning and was fine for the rest of the day. I didn't even show until I was 7 months along. 24 hours after giving birth I was up and around like nothing happened. My second I threw up all day every day for 3 months. I was tired and barely able to function. I was also huge and carried bigger. I could barely walk to the bathroom after I had my second for a few weeks. Every pregnancy is different even without health problems. If I were him I would cut her some slack and try to remember that she's growing a HUMAN. She has a baby in her that is literally taking everything it needs from her body and it doesn't care she is needed at work.
Load More Replies...There are medications that are safe for pregnant when with horrible morning sickness. You might want to tell her to talk to her obgyn about it. Next. Fire yourself. Your an idiot and mean. And if you have no compassion for a pregnant woman who is suffering then you shouldn't be anyone's supervisor. You should also tell her to report you to HR.
The medicine I took for morning sickness was phenergen. And it would knock me out.
Load More Replies...I managed a team and had a similar situation in that one of the ladies had a terrible morning sickness problem. Two months in, I had to put her on sick leave (as far as I remember the company had to pay the first 28 weeks and the rest was covered with what's called Statutory Sick Pay in the UK). Yes, it was massively disruptive to the rest of the team as we had to pick up the slack but surely her health was more important that our workloads for the 7 months she was off... This "work is more important than life" attitude so prevalent in America needs to die a horrible death.
Also, it's laughable that they require employees to be available 24/7 unless they pay them megabucks (which I doubt considering they work under an office manager).
Load More Replies...He's a minor asshole. The major asshole is someone above both in the hieracharchy, who applies too much pressure on him, which he hands down to his team, as expected - this just isn't a 21st-century-compatible set of ethics on the companies part, and he could stand up for her instead of playing his role in this game of exploitation.
It's still his reasoning and lack of compassion and ignorance about pregnancy and female biology. Also not believing your wife and turning to the internet for answers is very interesting too.
Load More Replies...For a manager, he certainly can't manage a "normal bodily function"!
One of my colleagues occasionally took a sick day. One of her emails read, "This baby-making process is really taking a toll." Her pregnancy was actually fun, as I made up stories about Captain Littlepants working as rescue helicopter pilot (we made websites for aviation).
Load More Replies..."I made concessions" Fool, until you're able to get pregnant you have no idea. My SIL just got prego for the first time and barely within the first 6-10 weeks and has already been in the hospital (a couple of times) for how sick she has been. The worst morning sickness I've ever seen and I had it pretty bad with my own son. People are stupid.
She may have Hyperemesis gravidarum. I ended up in the hospital twice because of it. Sick all day and night. Couldn’t keep anything down not even water. It’s awful. People truly have no idea until they experience.
Load More Replies...If you have to ask if you're a jerk, then you already know you're a jerk.
His comment on 'normal bodily functions' and feminist movement is a particular disgrace, dude hasn't even been through a menstruation.
I understand both sides. Of course you expext full work power.and I bet she thought (as I did before) beeing pregnant is not a sickness. BUT.... a pregnancy is some kind of sickness for a human body. Some woman don't even know they are pregnant untill delivery. Other woman are sick from the very first weeks. Do your resurch what a pregnancy means to a human body, like bioligy-wise (not a native english speaker so please oversee any grammar mistakes). When I was pregnant with mh twins. I was sick, I lost a hell lot of weight, I was tired. I was hospitalized at 5 months along and noone would have guessed that I was pregnant. I was skinnier than ever before. So at the end: she might have had other plans. But her body told her otherwise. Producing a huming beeing within your very own body is a miracle. And I bet she will come out so much stronger as she has ever been. Appreciate it! Please!!!! Give her a chance and she will be gladly paying you back. She will be the lioness of your company.
I've been in this pregnant employees exact position. I had HG for several months and my employer phoned to tell me I had to come in because his lawyer said pregnancy is not an illness. I did and it was absolute hell, I couldn't move or function in any way. Fortunately this happened in Europe, where workers rights exist, and I found a lawyer who made sure I was taken care of, and then some. I very much hope the woman in the OP can do the same.
How can you be this stupid and still breathe let alone hold a management position, he doesn't realize how lucky he is for not getting fired already for treating a very sick employee like a slave
During my first tremester, a part of my hair went to white because of the extreme morning sickness. They call it morning, but it was whole day sickness. I lost 8 pounds in three months, needed iv fluid cause I could not drink water three days in a week. My mum thought I was lying her so she would not be upset that I had a cancer and keeping it as a secret. After 8 years I still can not forget how vomiting all day was horrible.
When I was pregnant with my daughter I was sick for nearly half of my first trimester. "Morning" sickness? What a joke. During the worst of it I was sleeping on the bathroom floor for 3 weeks because I was CONSTANTLY vomiting. I couldn't hold down WATER. I had just been hired for a new job but hadn't been put on the schedule yet, I had to call them and refuse the job because I had no idea when I'd be able to work. Once I was in my 2nd trimester I was fine, didn't have any issue whatsoever (well, my ankles swelled, I quit using salt after that) until I went into labor, and even that was easy compared to my first trimester.
Load More Replies...Hire more people. No one should have to work 24/7 for a company, especially not someone who is ill.
So glad I don’t live in America. What an asshole. And the fact that the system even favours his side/view of things. Absolutely horrendous
This is why America is sick. Why there is so many mental health problems, so much anxiety, and so much stress. Which can all lead to addictions from prescriptions. It's a ripple affect. We can't keep up with demands of those like this bastard. I will never understand this kind behavior from a boss, ever. I hope he was humbled and severely disappointed with himself and his behavior. I hope he now understands, is compassionate and becomes the exact opposite.
It is really tough because on a business level you need productivity. On a human level there needs to be slack. For a male, especially, to say "no excuse" is a dipshit move and it erases all the good things he did do. Pregnancy is different for everyone. I had a rougher 2nd pregnancy and I shortened my shifts (We staffed our own hours with each other). Co workers were not happy - a woman with a grown daughter and a fatherless male. The man originally said he understood and if I need time off, etc, they were there for me. That was because I had an emotional issue one day and threw an adult temper tantrum and had to tell all I was expecting.
Usually the business would be fine, but the owners want more profit on expense of the work of other people
Load More Replies...I also had hyper-emesis and I lost weight and became dehydrated. Nothing, and I mean nothing I swallowed stayed down!! Worst experience ever!!!
I had a friend who had morning sickness so badly that she had to take suppository medicine because she was vomiting so much.
I worked the Christmas rush and felt great during my first pregnancy. I slept constancy and vomited several times a day with my sencon
I had Hyperemesis gravidarum it was beyond awful. I’ve never been so sick in my life. I lost 12 pounds in one month and ended up in the hospital twice for severe dehydration and had to be hooked up to fluids. I couldn’t even keep water down or saltine crackers. And most doctors can’t or won’t prescribe nausea medicine because they say a lot of it can cause birth defects or it’s risky to take while pregnant. So women just suffer. Sometimes it’s just for the first trimester sometimes it’s for the entire pregnancy. Yes she chose to get pregnant she didn’t choose to get sick. You don’t know ahead of time of this pregnancy will make u deathly sick or not. You have no idea until u actually feel symptoms of it.
Tbh like I understand it can be hard, we had a waitress that was pregnant we had a stool in the back so she could sit and take a break and get water, we would make her a small snakc and stuff ,I've never been pregnant but it looks exhausting!!! So ya you are being a jerk
There are two sides to every story. Boredpanda should have printed Cara's side also.
Must be American. The fact that it's expected the staff be available 24/7? Damn. Putting all the bull**it aside about the lack of understanding regarding her pregnancy, that's the firs thing wrong with that story.
i'm seriously worried of that work environement. what the hell is expected there? be available 24 hours 7 days a week? during off hours AND holidays too?? what productivity, are you talking about humans or robots? whater are the human rights and employee rights in this whole things? and DON'T get me started on the pregnacy. a man lacking total empthaty not only for a woman but for a human been. he should be ashamed he is a complete asshole, and on top of that he's apinting himself as a good understanding perosn. if i was the pregnant woman i would look for another job. one that respects my rights for time outside the work and that also allows me to live my life, not only work. imagine how things will be after she gives birth. she really has to look into something better than this crap excuse of a job.
Dude's lucky she still shows up. I'd have quit by now, even if I wasn't pregnant, because I don't work for assholes. You start treating me like s**t, you're gonna have to find someone else to be shitty to, because my ass is GONE.
Damn dude. You got SLAMMED. I genuinely hope this guy is quite young and completely inexperienced. Otherwise, he's got sociopathic issues.
Disability Case Manager-on-hiatus here: The biggest issue I see with this is that section where he tried to mansplain pregnancy to her. "first trimester and barely pregnant" is a very flippant attitude. For many of those who are pregnant, the first trimester could, indeed be very benign - however, the poster already outlined some very obvious issues. The problem I see is the reaction. The first thing is - the employee tried to continue working and the manager made concessions and adaptions to her regular work (the hours, extra time for appointments, etc) - which is fine. As it would appear she was unable to continue working even with the modification in place, he should have discussed with her maybe partial disability leave or even further modified duties upon medical recommendation - which is where disability management comes in. If there **is no disability plan** for the employees... now THERE'S a problem.
This is pretty much the definition of prejudice and discrimination and the reason why many countries have laws to protect employees from this kind of thing. Thank God I don't work at that place! I wonder if his employees get paid to be available 24 hours a day or word late into the night, how is this kind of thing acceptable in the 21st century.
She is actually making a person. A PERSON! That takes a lot of energy and places great strain on the body even in the best circumstances. She is having some side effects from pregnancy. Your employees are people, and people are imperfect. There are times they will not be as productive, but can still get the job done. Pregnancy is temporary.
As someone in an industry that has a defined busy period, if you’re going to staff your company so that people are doing a lot of OT then, you have to be prepared for problems to occur during that time. January-March 2020 sucked worse for me than the actual pandemic (although I live in New Zealand so our definition of “pandemic” differs from the US) because we had to let someone go in late December 2019 and we knew that training a newbie would take as much time as biting the bullet and doing the work ourselves until things calmed down. Boss (who’s British, NZ can’t claim credit for this) paid OT and gave us big bonuses. So this is a time for this person to reflect on how they want to staff their company in future. Do they want to hire more people and accept that finances will be tighter during the quiet periods? Or do they want to accept that situations like this will happen and pay OT, etc to those who cover?
I got steroid poisoning and could be move and my boss had no problem with me not being at work because she knew that I was sick. If she had fought the facts, I would have just quit.
The same sort of moron who puts sales taxes/VATs on menstrual products because they're "luxury" items.
Is it in her contract to be available off hours? or to do overtime? does the dude intend to compensate the others who do extra work? because if not... how can he ever imagine he were not an AH in the first place, pregnancy aside?
Even with one woman each pregnancy can vary greatly. I had much more morning sickness with my son than I did with my twins. Go figure. I was much more exhausted with the twins which makes sense. But for this guy to say pregnancy is a "normal bodily function" as if that means that makes them all equal is ridiculous. Even bowel movements (a bodily functions) aren't consistent, hence the existence of diarrhea and constipation. . .
I feel her pain, i always knew I was pregnant within the first 2 weeks, horrible nausea, vomiting all day cant keep anything down, even water. That dude is ONE HUUUUGE POS!
There's no such thing as barely pregnant. Would you say someone barely has cancer or barely has AIDS? Either you're pregnant or you're not. It's not multiple choice. Most women breeze through it as women have been doing since Eve. But men used to have more respect for pregnant women.
'clara' needs a new job, her manager so has clearly never known a pregnant lady, wish her a healthy pregnancy.
I have seen several women suffer so much with sickness, the first three month, one even had to be hospitalized. The hormonal onlsaught is terrifying. My sister took weeks off work, just lying on the sofa in pain and nauseous and unable to move. I guess this is what happens if you cancel sex-ED in a country. noone learns anything about reproduction and hormones. Well, at least, he now knows what a comlete d*ck he is.
Yep, he's the @ss (unless of course she's one of those that takes advantage, there are always those... but I am betting this isn't the case). I have been pregnant twice and have been miserably sick all the way through both times. With my last pregnancy I weighed the same thing at the end as I did at the beginning because I lost so much weight that it negated the extra 30 or so pounds of baby and fluids. I can't imagine how much worse it would have been if I had started out without 30 pounds to spare. I am so lucky that I am both able to work from home and had the support of my coworkers and management both times. Imagine for a moment what it would be like to have to work in an office when you feel nauseous basically all day long and could throw up at any given moment, weak from dehydration and nutrient loss. And the anti-nausea meds make you so constipated that sometimes you just lay on the floor in pain, sweating, weak, and unable to will yourself to get up.
And when I say all the way through, I mean I started vomiting at 6 weeks with the first and didn't stop until delivery, and I think it started one week earlier with my second. But the second made up for it by coming a week early at least, so it evened out. I through up in labor with the first, and the second I threw up a couple hours afterwards when I ate my first real food in a day or two. I am normally not one that throws up, but pregnancy is not my friend.
Load More Replies...Sometimes I feel that only a woman can understand another woman's problems. I hope she requested to speak with a female higher up. Speaking to a man about this could be uncomfortable for her too meaning she might not fully explain herself cuz she's embarrassed. I know I was embarrassed when I had to tell my male manager I was having the coil fitted and that I'd need light duties at work for that shift
"crunch time = extra hours without pay" - lol American dream "everyone is expected to answer their phones and emails pretty much round the clock." Do you believe in life after work?
most of the downvoted comments are from MEN and childless women. as i obviously have never been pregnant, i don’t have an opinion on this. however, if you’ve never experienced being pregnant, shut the f**k up. especially MEN. you have no right to say what a woman can do, and you can’t tell her how she should feel during a pregnancy. that’s called mansplaining, if you didn’t know, and women don’t need to be told how our bodies work. 😊
No, he's fully wrong because he didn't manage workload correctly. What do you think happens to the work for people on vacation?
Load More Replies...No Destini, you're a nursing student with the life experience of exactly that. You are not a manager, you have clearly never had a pregnancy that made you sick from the beginning. And yes, that makes you unqualified to have an opinion. All work is not hindered with one employee on half power. She's not slacking, she's sick. Do you notice the overwhelming amount of opposite opinions of people that do have that life's experience and can tell you all about why you're wrong? It's because that's what you are, wrong. A job can wait, this manager clearly doesn't know when peak times come and how to handle those with temps or just managing the workload better. And yeah, I've been pregnant with HG, postpartum and am a manager who would never let any team member down like that.
Load More Replies...If he does fire her at this point, he faces a lawsuit for discrimination bc of her pregnancy. Especially if she comes back with a Dr's note that outlines complications to the pregnancy.
Load More Replies...Yeah your right!! This comment really is going to make you unpopular! Single parents struggling with childcare? Both parents working to cover life costs? Pain in the backside kids that dont get up when asked? (i was one of those). You dont have your own kids i guess? Well, i hope that when you are old and decrepit and need someone to wipe your a**e, that its one of your colleagues kids in a nursing career that has to do it. And they do it with sandpaper....
Load More Replies...Actually, working is something pretty much everyone has to do, while competing in the olympics isn't. Also, work should be adapted to the employee's needs, not the other way.
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