Male Engineering Student Calmly Explains Why Female Classmates Aren’t His Equals
Imagine a guy telling his whole engineering class, loud and clear, that female students aren’t his equals. As I’m typing, your eyeballs might be out of their sockets, and you might be searching for an egg or two to fire. While your mind is busy creating the worst-case scenario of academic misogyny, stay with me. The guy suddenly changes his tone of voice – “you and I cannot be equal. You have already conquered far more to be in this field than I will ever face.” Of course, the female students had to work harder, stronger, better and faster to make it in this world! And what were you thinking? In the blink of an eye, Jared Mauldin transforms into a humble hero of modern class. His thought-provoking letter, published on Eastern Washington University’s student news site, has been taking the internet by storm. No thunder, though, as many have turned to him to say “thank you”. Read Mauldin’s full letter below:
Image credits: A Mighty Girl
Speaking with the Today show about his piece, Jared Mauldin said: ‘Really, when you look at this letter, I said nothing new. I didn’t say anything that another feminist writer hasn’t said before. The distinguishing factor happens to be that I am a man. That is a problem.’ Sadly, it’s true that women in the field of science face a grim reality. Catalyst, a global non-profit organization that seeks to empower women in workforces, conducted a study and discovered that the gender gap in science, technology, engineering, and math (STEM) begins with education. The gap is exceptionally wide in information technologies, where women account for up to only 18.8% of the highest grades in class. As if that’s not enough, a 2014 study discovered that both men and women were twice as likely to hire a man if the job required math.
Take a look at what people had to say about the viral letter:
!["Karen Complains To HR About My Body, I Uno-Reverse Her Complaint, [And Now] Everyone Hates Her"](https://www.boredpanda.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/coworker-complains-to-hr-about-womans-body-revenge-latest.jpg "\"Karen Complains To HR About My Body, I Uno-Reverse Her Complaint, [And Now] Everyone Hates Her\"")
It's cool when men can understand better a woman's perspective on such issues, but this kind of virtue signalling makes me uncomfortable. Women simply want to be treated the same as everyone else. That means not undervaluing our worth, but it also means not treating us as special snowflakes. Everyone has their own struggle.
I think understanding the reality of the playing field helps make it more level.
Do you wake up in the morning thinking "Ok, what can offend me today!"...So sick of people who can't read a nice story and keep their b******t to themselves.
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Why would you say that? The original story is about this discussion. And it does feel like chivalry, which is not necessary. As a female IT manager I know first hand I never dealt with the issues the original story implies happened to me. The logic is skewed. We are in this field not because we jumped those hurtles, but because we are the few that hardly met them. Promoting STEM and equality is about all the women that didn't make it because they did walk into all those walls.
I always have mixed feelings about this kind of topic. I (born 1968) have a (bachelor) degree in applied physics (since 1992) and worked in Industrial Automation for many years, for what were engineering firms with then 100% male employees. During my time in Uni we were 4-10 girls on a total of 300 physics students. But I have never ever experienced any form of misogyny during those years. No one held me back, no one told me I was not fit to work as an engineer because of my gender and no one suggested to find other line of work. Just the opposite really : when it was time for me to have children, I was the first engineer that needed to give birth herself, in comparrison to my male co-workers, and everyone was very excited about me joining them on the workfloor with my belly pressed into a blue overall ! Maybe on a professional basis things were/are different where I come from (Netherlands) but I just can't relate to these posts made by people from "developed" countries. Sorry.
Don't worry. I can't relate either. I was born in the 80s and went into IT and have never been discouraged or heard anything remotely negative about going into the industry as a female. It just sounds like made-up grievances to me. He's right about one thing. Diversity hires and quotas completely undermine us. They are such a terrible idea.
On this being made-up grievances? Yeah, no. My aunt was one of the first , if not the VERY first female office manager for General Dynamics back in the 1970's, and went through all kinds of c**p with that. After she got her Master's, she was at least once the first female head of district water boards in a couple of counties and dealt with some junk with those positions too. Just because it wasn't blatant in your case doesn't mean that it didn't exist. It's just a fact. When women break into typically male-dominated career areas, it can be ugly.
Kudos for your aunt, but it really is about the women who didn't make it to the positions when they are very well equipped to do so.
IF anything things are WORSE now. Likely because on the internet all the voices of small minded weak people can be amplified. The same reason we have a resurgence of flat Earth thinking.
I think the difference is that in the past (I am about your age) and still somewhat today, women were actively discouraged from STEM fields as kids. So, if they did want to get into the field they were far behind their male counterparts until college. That is changing, but slowly.
I don't know. When I was in Uni (round 1990) we had a national campaign to get more girls into the STEM fields. I was actively involved in that campaign and it made girls aware of the possibilities. But maybe it was just my personal circumstances that made it normal for me to enroll in a STEM enviroment. I grew up in a very small village in a rural setting and sure I was held back, but that was because I had a speech impediment and not because I was female. But again, maybe I'm the exception to the rule. Who knows. Cudos to all the less fortunate who were able to beat the odds. Male or female !
Depends on where you live too.
This appears to be a mostly American problem among developed nations. (Let's not discuss the African continent. They're still deciding whether they want to consider women human for the most part.) We've had the 'big strong competent man, delicate helpless rose-petal stupid female' routine going on for far too long. Women are encouraged to buy into this nonsense 'because you'll never catch a husband, dear." I guess intelligent women scare the Neanderthal men we usually deal with.
This comment has been deleted.
I'm getting tired of this. In most industrialized countries, females outnumber males in all fields of higher studies but engineering. High school failure disproportionately affects male students. Most educators are female, and studies have shown they on average have a significant bias against male students. Boys in school have more than five time the suicide rate of girls. Equality should be going both ways. It is true females have it harder in many ways, but not regarding education. Boys deserve that we care about them too.
You're getting tired of this after maybe 20 years of "moving towards equality", after MILLENNIA of the opposite? Maybe you're making a point different to the one you intend to be making. Yes, of COURSE we need to care about boys. The point of the letter and the article is that on the whole, as a group, they are already cared for.
Right on, Vincent. Never seen it said better. Holding people accountable and expecting them to adjust their behavior based on events predating their birth is ridiculous. I'm tempted to delve into the similarities with the bible and religion, but this post is going to get downvoted enough already, I'm sure.
Yes, boys don't need any additional assistance in life. Allocate any resources to females. We should start teaching them instead of beating and objectifying them during science class. Maybe we'll even give them chairs and pens... What a wonderful new world! No more girl-skin backpacks for all the spoiled science boys!!
So it's today's men who should suffer for millennia of sexism? That's just weird. Besides, anyone taking engineering classes is too young to have been around when girls were told to be girly and science wasn't for them. I'm middle aged and have been hearing about how girls need to get into STEM and all that since I was a kid. Depending on where she's from, I'm willing to bet these girls were mostly applauded for what they are doing.
I'm sorry KatHat, but I wasn't there for the last 2000 years, and neither were you. I'm tired of things I lived, and in my lifetime, this has been the situation. Nad please remember that among men are transgender men, gay men, black men, differently abled men... We have not had it good ever.
Found the men’s rights activist. You know what, Vincent? Rights and equality for women isn’t about taking it away from men. It’s not about marginalizing men. Toxic masculinity (as in, the toxic version of the ideal of what masculinity ought to be, not just masculinity itself) is the biggest harm being done to men, and that’s part of male culture. You know who I see acting in men’s best interests in this context? Feminists. You know who I find fighting most against male genital mutilation? Feminists. Rights is not pie. You don’t get a smaller piece because someone else is being acknowledged too.
Please don't define me without knowing me. I've been a gay activist, and a social worker my whole adult life. I consider myself a feminist, and have more than put my money where my mouth is. And yes, I believe it is well within my right as a citizen to question representations and discourses, including feminism. And I do believe that feminism has failed boys very much. I have not seen any feminist come at my rescue when I was harrassed and put down during my whole schooling, but they were there to tell me I was favoured because I was a boy once I reached upper education.
@Vincent Phillipart Women outnumber men in higher education because we HAVE to be educated to earn a living wage. Men don't. Also, your statements regarding the sex of "most educators" and their biases are not correct. Women professors are underrepresented in higher education and administration. Further, there is only a bias against boys if you are using disciplinary action as a metric- other metrics (that correspond to actual education effort) are biased in favor of boys. And frankly, these numbers only work for white kids. Once you evaluate POC, you find that black girls face far more disciplinary action than white boys. I'm not saying that boys are getting everything they need to succeed - my son has struggled and I've been angry about it. But your statements are not supported by the data, and therefore incorrect.
Only women have to be educated to earn a living wage? Last time I checked, men didn't get a salary from the government just for being men and they had to earn a living, too. I don't know in your planet, but in mine everybody has to earn a living.
@Evil Little Thing. I'm not sure where you are getting your information from...but in order to earn a living wage, you have to be educated regardless of your sex/gender. Even men who are uneducated find themselves in dead end jobs earning minimum wage. When it comes to more professional jobs, like IT or Engineering, you will find there is bias when it comes to men getting hired over women. And your theories on why black girls get disciplined more than white boys is false. The average on which group is disciplined more is largely dependent on the school. On average, in my MIL school where she taught (predominantly black), young black males were more subject to disciplinary action than the girls..and the girls were constantly getting into fights over the boys. In my school (predominantly white), it was the girls that were constantly in trouble for the same thing..fighting over boys.
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If you commit suicide you're not only an idiot, you're an a*****e, too.
That is a f****d up thing to say. And as ignorant as f**k. Depression can be a terminal illness, just like many other illnesses. I recently lost a good friend to suicide. Don't talk about her like that.
People who commit suicide are deeply troubled people, many who have tried hard to find healing and cannot. Yes, from the standpoint of those left behind, it is an exceedingly selfish act. But until you have lived inside the mind of someone who cannot find peace and healing for what tortures their souls, then you have no right to call them names. Work to love and heal people, to be there for them, to be empathetic, to help them find their worth and their hope. Don't just stand there and call them names. (If you are a loved one left behind by someone's suicide, then I do understand that you are coming from a place of pain. It's okay to be angry with them. But turn that anger into doing something to help others who are struggling with their mental health. Then there will be fewer people to have to go through what you have.)
Ellington: shut your cake-hole. I, & millions of people like me, suffer from severe, treatment resistant depression. I've tried several medications to control this illness & none work for long. This is a disease that'll be with me for LIFE. I have to take three different anti-depressants just to keep from killing myself. So I'm an idiot & an a*****e for being suicidal? For having malfunctioning neurotransmitters that don't do their jobs properly? For an illness that is partially GENETIC & partially brought on by PTSD & over which I have no control other than the medications, plus careful life management? Take your ignorance and GO F**K YOURSELF up a f*****g tree, you utter asshat. 40 years, you little s**t--40 f*****g years I've lived with this. I'm 52, now, & I have maybe another 40 years left. LET THAT F*****G SINK IN. Since I was TWELVE, at LEAST. Yeah, I've been an "idiot & an a*****e" since I was 12. Fish Boden: I have yet to see this Ellington goof say much of anything intelligent on this forum. He misses the point of most of the posts I've seen him on, & he too often posts the most ignorant, offensive c**p. I'll give him this, though: I haven't seen any racist s**t out of him yet. So that's good. Just a lot of dumb-assery that makes him seem like he has no clue about most things. Not a lot of empathy, either, as you've just seen.
It's cool when men can understand better a woman's perspective on such issues, but this kind of virtue signalling makes me uncomfortable. Women simply want to be treated the same as everyone else. That means not undervaluing our worth, but it also means not treating us as special snowflakes. Everyone has their own struggle.
I think understanding the reality of the playing field helps make it more level.
Do you wake up in the morning thinking "Ok, what can offend me today!"...So sick of people who can't read a nice story and keep their b******t to themselves.
This comment is hidden. Click here to view.
Why would you say that? The original story is about this discussion. And it does feel like chivalry, which is not necessary. As a female IT manager I know first hand I never dealt with the issues the original story implies happened to me. The logic is skewed. We are in this field not because we jumped those hurtles, but because we are the few that hardly met them. Promoting STEM and equality is about all the women that didn't make it because they did walk into all those walls.
I always have mixed feelings about this kind of topic. I (born 1968) have a (bachelor) degree in applied physics (since 1992) and worked in Industrial Automation for many years, for what were engineering firms with then 100% male employees. During my time in Uni we were 4-10 girls on a total of 300 physics students. But I have never ever experienced any form of misogyny during those years. No one held me back, no one told me I was not fit to work as an engineer because of my gender and no one suggested to find other line of work. Just the opposite really : when it was time for me to have children, I was the first engineer that needed to give birth herself, in comparrison to my male co-workers, and everyone was very excited about me joining them on the workfloor with my belly pressed into a blue overall ! Maybe on a professional basis things were/are different where I come from (Netherlands) but I just can't relate to these posts made by people from "developed" countries. Sorry.
Don't worry. I can't relate either. I was born in the 80s and went into IT and have never been discouraged or heard anything remotely negative about going into the industry as a female. It just sounds like made-up grievances to me. He's right about one thing. Diversity hires and quotas completely undermine us. They are such a terrible idea.
On this being made-up grievances? Yeah, no. My aunt was one of the first , if not the VERY first female office manager for General Dynamics back in the 1970's, and went through all kinds of c**p with that. After she got her Master's, she was at least once the first female head of district water boards in a couple of counties and dealt with some junk with those positions too. Just because it wasn't blatant in your case doesn't mean that it didn't exist. It's just a fact. When women break into typically male-dominated career areas, it can be ugly.
Kudos for your aunt, but it really is about the women who didn't make it to the positions when they are very well equipped to do so.
IF anything things are WORSE now. Likely because on the internet all the voices of small minded weak people can be amplified. The same reason we have a resurgence of flat Earth thinking.
I think the difference is that in the past (I am about your age) and still somewhat today, women were actively discouraged from STEM fields as kids. So, if they did want to get into the field they were far behind their male counterparts until college. That is changing, but slowly.
I don't know. When I was in Uni (round 1990) we had a national campaign to get more girls into the STEM fields. I was actively involved in that campaign and it made girls aware of the possibilities. But maybe it was just my personal circumstances that made it normal for me to enroll in a STEM enviroment. I grew up in a very small village in a rural setting and sure I was held back, but that was because I had a speech impediment and not because I was female. But again, maybe I'm the exception to the rule. Who knows. Cudos to all the less fortunate who were able to beat the odds. Male or female !
Depends on where you live too.
This appears to be a mostly American problem among developed nations. (Let's not discuss the African continent. They're still deciding whether they want to consider women human for the most part.) We've had the 'big strong competent man, delicate helpless rose-petal stupid female' routine going on for far too long. Women are encouraged to buy into this nonsense 'because you'll never catch a husband, dear." I guess intelligent women scare the Neanderthal men we usually deal with.
This comment has been deleted.
I'm getting tired of this. In most industrialized countries, females outnumber males in all fields of higher studies but engineering. High school failure disproportionately affects male students. Most educators are female, and studies have shown they on average have a significant bias against male students. Boys in school have more than five time the suicide rate of girls. Equality should be going both ways. It is true females have it harder in many ways, but not regarding education. Boys deserve that we care about them too.
You're getting tired of this after maybe 20 years of "moving towards equality", after MILLENNIA of the opposite? Maybe you're making a point different to the one you intend to be making. Yes, of COURSE we need to care about boys. The point of the letter and the article is that on the whole, as a group, they are already cared for.
Right on, Vincent. Never seen it said better. Holding people accountable and expecting them to adjust their behavior based on events predating their birth is ridiculous. I'm tempted to delve into the similarities with the bible and religion, but this post is going to get downvoted enough already, I'm sure.
Yes, boys don't need any additional assistance in life. Allocate any resources to females. We should start teaching them instead of beating and objectifying them during science class. Maybe we'll even give them chairs and pens... What a wonderful new world! No more girl-skin backpacks for all the spoiled science boys!!
So it's today's men who should suffer for millennia of sexism? That's just weird. Besides, anyone taking engineering classes is too young to have been around when girls were told to be girly and science wasn't for them. I'm middle aged and have been hearing about how girls need to get into STEM and all that since I was a kid. Depending on where she's from, I'm willing to bet these girls were mostly applauded for what they are doing.
I'm sorry KatHat, but I wasn't there for the last 2000 years, and neither were you. I'm tired of things I lived, and in my lifetime, this has been the situation. Nad please remember that among men are transgender men, gay men, black men, differently abled men... We have not had it good ever.
Found the men’s rights activist. You know what, Vincent? Rights and equality for women isn’t about taking it away from men. It’s not about marginalizing men. Toxic masculinity (as in, the toxic version of the ideal of what masculinity ought to be, not just masculinity itself) is the biggest harm being done to men, and that’s part of male culture. You know who I see acting in men’s best interests in this context? Feminists. You know who I find fighting most against male genital mutilation? Feminists. Rights is not pie. You don’t get a smaller piece because someone else is being acknowledged too.
Please don't define me without knowing me. I've been a gay activist, and a social worker my whole adult life. I consider myself a feminist, and have more than put my money where my mouth is. And yes, I believe it is well within my right as a citizen to question representations and discourses, including feminism. And I do believe that feminism has failed boys very much. I have not seen any feminist come at my rescue when I was harrassed and put down during my whole schooling, but they were there to tell me I was favoured because I was a boy once I reached upper education.
@Vincent Phillipart Women outnumber men in higher education because we HAVE to be educated to earn a living wage. Men don't. Also, your statements regarding the sex of "most educators" and their biases are not correct. Women professors are underrepresented in higher education and administration. Further, there is only a bias against boys if you are using disciplinary action as a metric- other metrics (that correspond to actual education effort) are biased in favor of boys. And frankly, these numbers only work for white kids. Once you evaluate POC, you find that black girls face far more disciplinary action than white boys. I'm not saying that boys are getting everything they need to succeed - my son has struggled and I've been angry about it. But your statements are not supported by the data, and therefore incorrect.
Only women have to be educated to earn a living wage? Last time I checked, men didn't get a salary from the government just for being men and they had to earn a living, too. I don't know in your planet, but in mine everybody has to earn a living.
@Evil Little Thing. I'm not sure where you are getting your information from...but in order to earn a living wage, you have to be educated regardless of your sex/gender. Even men who are uneducated find themselves in dead end jobs earning minimum wage. When it comes to more professional jobs, like IT or Engineering, you will find there is bias when it comes to men getting hired over women. And your theories on why black girls get disciplined more than white boys is false. The average on which group is disciplined more is largely dependent on the school. On average, in my MIL school where she taught (predominantly black), young black males were more subject to disciplinary action than the girls..and the girls were constantly getting into fights over the boys. In my school (predominantly white), it was the girls that were constantly in trouble for the same thing..fighting over boys.
This comment has been deleted.
This comment is hidden. Click here to view.
If you commit suicide you're not only an idiot, you're an a*****e, too.
That is a f****d up thing to say. And as ignorant as f**k. Depression can be a terminal illness, just like many other illnesses. I recently lost a good friend to suicide. Don't talk about her like that.
People who commit suicide are deeply troubled people, many who have tried hard to find healing and cannot. Yes, from the standpoint of those left behind, it is an exceedingly selfish act. But until you have lived inside the mind of someone who cannot find peace and healing for what tortures their souls, then you have no right to call them names. Work to love and heal people, to be there for them, to be empathetic, to help them find their worth and their hope. Don't just stand there and call them names. (If you are a loved one left behind by someone's suicide, then I do understand that you are coming from a place of pain. It's okay to be angry with them. But turn that anger into doing something to help others who are struggling with their mental health. Then there will be fewer people to have to go through what you have.)
Ellington: shut your cake-hole. I, & millions of people like me, suffer from severe, treatment resistant depression. I've tried several medications to control this illness & none work for long. This is a disease that'll be with me for LIFE. I have to take three different anti-depressants just to keep from killing myself. So I'm an idiot & an a*****e for being suicidal? For having malfunctioning neurotransmitters that don't do their jobs properly? For an illness that is partially GENETIC & partially brought on by PTSD & over which I have no control other than the medications, plus careful life management? Take your ignorance and GO F**K YOURSELF up a f*****g tree, you utter asshat. 40 years, you little s**t--40 f*****g years I've lived with this. I'm 52, now, & I have maybe another 40 years left. LET THAT F*****G SINK IN. Since I was TWELVE, at LEAST. Yeah, I've been an "idiot & an a*****e" since I was 12. Fish Boden: I have yet to see this Ellington goof say much of anything intelligent on this forum. He misses the point of most of the posts I've seen him on, & he too often posts the most ignorant, offensive c**p. I'll give him this, though: I haven't seen any racist s**t out of him yet. So that's good. Just a lot of dumb-assery that makes him seem like he has no clue about most things. Not a lot of empathy, either, as you've just seen.