Hey Panda, AITA For Wanting To Divorce My Wife Given Our Intimacy Problems?
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I (M49) have been with my wife (56) for almost 20 years now. We have one daughter (20) who is currently in college and still living with us.
Over the past few years, especially after she went through the “change” we have been slowly drifting apart
Image credits: Alex Green (not the actual photo)
We no longer sleep in the same room because she says that I become erratic with my dreams and move too much. That’s fine.
We have not been intimate for over 10 years now
Image credits: Ron Lach (not the actual photo)
I try to initiate things but she just says not to touch her. Even if I sit by her, she gets up and moves. I have always been a hopeful romantic. I no longer have the friend I once had.
She’s not interested in counseling and I have brought up the D word during an argument but it seemed to really upset her
Image credits: Kelly Sikkema (not the actual photo)
We have not talked about it since. The reason I’m still here is because if I were to leave I don’t know how she would be able to support herself because she only has a part-time job. I’m just trying to hang on until my daughter finishes college, which will be in a few months. My SO keeps threatening to move out every time we argue but she never does. I tell her if she’s not happy here to stay with one of her friends. If she told me she had a BF it wouldn’t even bother me. I just want her to be happy and enjoy her life, but I want the same too. So, my question is AITA for wanting out of this relationship?
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In a divorce, this is called “alienation of affection.” If she is refusing counseling or therapy, I would go ahead and proceed with divorce. She is basically just using you for financial stability but offering absolutely nothing to the relationship or the marriage. 10 years is a long time to be patient and tolerant. But enough is enough. You COULD be in a wonderful, blissful relationship. Not too late.
You worded what I wanted to say so much better :) You are completely correct. If he lives to be 80, he's wasted 1/8th of his life that he'll NEVER get back!
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She won't even sit next to OP and won't let him touch her, he should have been out of there years ago. All he is doing is financially supporting someone who doesn't want to be around him. She only has a part time job? At the age of 56? Boo-hoo. She is an adult, she can support herself and take her emotional abuse elsewhere.
You would NOT be the AH. I would like to point out that it's called Menopause, not the “change”. It's not some kind of secret disease. Your use of the language makes me wonder if you are aware of the physical affects of menopause and peri-menopause (the period leading up to menopause) and how drastically and sometimes devastatingly it can affect women's sexual function? Low libido, pain and vaginal dryness are common side effects of menopause and require some patience and creativity on the part of their partners to stimulate and encourage a healthy sex life. If your wife really wont engage in counselling then you are probably ten years too late and the marriage may very well be over. If you decide to take one last stab at it, start by researching menopause, its physical and emotional impact on women, and then using the appropriate language when you raise it with your wife. All that aside, you deserve to be loved and to have your needs met. You would not be an AH for leaving.
If you would have said "no sex for 10 years I'm out of here" then you're TA. But for her not wanting you to touch her at all and actually moving away from you. NTA. If you feel you have some time left for another woman, go for it. Your wife is not there for you. The fact that your 20 y.o. is still at home doesn't help either and she sees a lot more than you think.
My sex drive went to 0 the third time my SO threatened to end me. We are getting one side of the story here.
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As one who was forced in to menopause by cancer, I fully understand the low libido, lack of drive, feeling like I didn't deserve or want any kinds of physical attention. However, I am lucky to have a partner who cared enough to do the research for what I couldn't describe/what I was/am going through. He asked for couples counseling and we found that it was me that needed the one-on-one time with the counselor. It's been 7 years since the cancer started this, and I am glad I have him still by my side. I'm not back to what we were when we first started the relationship (hard to do), but we are both working on it. OP. If she isn't willing to get help I would not blame you in the least for leaving. NTA
TY. I'm glad to know that I'm not the only person with low libido and lack of drive thanks to the menopausal shots. The breast cancer support groups never bring up this problem post chemo/radiation.
Load More Replies... I agree with the other commenters that ten years of nothing but 'no' is hard to work through. Yes, menopause can be hard on a woman and things do change with regards to sexual needs. But sexuality is so much more than intercourse. It is touch, massage, hugs, kisses, sitting cuddled together on the couch, bathing together, even talking about it can do so much. If is has been ten years without any of that, they have a friendship. This can be enough for some, but it is clearly (and understandably, if non of the other activities were even an option) not enough for him. Promises made at the wedding aside, I can understand why he talks about divorce. If she treats him as nothing more than a good friend, she has no reason to keep calling it a marriage. If she wants to stay married, she will need to find ways to maintain that kind of intimacy that makes it a marriage. edit: in the last sentence, 'she' should be read as 'they'
He should also figure out how to get himself off, if that's what he needs so bad. I'm not quite getting why people are so focused on her behavior, or lack of it (and yes menopause is OFTEN so much more involved than people think, it can be pure hell, for years on end).He admitted he was constantly trying to initiate sex, and she, repeatedly, told him no. He admitted this issue started after she started going into menopause and that, even through that, he kept trying to initiate sex. Intimacy can be all kinds of things, but if one party always acts like being near one another should lead to whatever they want, it's pretty likely the other party will grow tired of it. How many times does someone have to say no, before it's okay to start pulling away further? The very first year this all started, he should've been more understanding, not continuing to pursue his own sexual agenda.
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I feel like people aren’t realizing that sex and intimacy are not the same thing. This isn’t just a “I’m not getting any” type of issue. It’s a true relational intimacy issue. Unless she decides to get therapy (hrp and/or mental health), and try to bring back some kind of intimacy, I feel like OP is well within his rights to file for divorce. She sounds mentally checked out of the marriage.
Why is the onus on her when he's the one who has said he constantly tries to initiate sex? Her refusal to sit by him didn't even start until he refused to quit trying to initiate the sex she said she doesn't want. People do know that sex and intimacy are not the same thing. I don't think the OP knows that though. All of her reluctance to be close to him started when he refused to knock his behavior off. He literally blames menopause and is now holding her entirely to blame for everything, instead of acknowledging his own role in the relationship taking. I'd be mentally checked out too if my partner insisted on sex constantly, blamed a perfectly normal human function, and me, for HIS lack of being able to get off when he wants to. How much is she supposed to put up with, and for how long, before it's okay for HER to say "that's enough"? Of course he can and should file for divorce, but it's not HER fault they got there, it started and ended with him.
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You are both- in a very tough place. You are exhausted and alone- and she is terrified- and alone. You emphasize she was your friend. I would try to get both to focus there, first. You need your friend to agree to some basic counseling- a good one who can just get her to talk. A woman 56 with a part time job? Of course she's terrified. You very clearly understand that- and don't want to hurt her- but I know your needs are real and hurtful. A counselor might be able to get you to: "We need change. How?" The word "divorce" is one I would avoid- it tends to pit people against each other; make a war where maybe you don't have to have one.
NTA. First of all, there's absolutely nothing wrong with divorcing your spouse when they refuse sex, touch, etc. and refuses for YEARS. She went from being a wife to a c**p roommate. My opinion is there are two reasons why the subject of divorce upsets her: 1) she knows she financially wants or needs you to survive so she doesn't have to work full-time and/or 2) she loves the control she has over you more than she loves you; she loves that she is the reason you aren't being intimate. Since you're the one initiating and she's the one refusing, she get her devious kicks out of rejecting you. You gave her years of chances. It's time to stop talking, start acting, file for a divorce, and move out or kick her out. She's a big girl and can take care of herself; she's most likely been "taking care of herself" for years since she's choosing to not get it from you.
I look forward to a day when we can, instead of "I'm divorcing YOU.." and all the turmoil; just arrive at "oh. We're not good together anymore. Happens. Let's move on." We ended my first marriage that way, 20 years, 2 kids - when we went for a lawyer to arrange things- we hired ONE lawyer - to just make things work. We didn't need one to advocate for each of us- we were in agreement- separate, equally. The lawyer was surprised! Took some convincing. But it worked fine.
Load More Replies... If she is unwilling to communicate with you , and refuses to go to counseling , there is not much that can be done. Marriage is a two-way street, and it seems like you are at the end of the road. I'm not one to immediately say divorce, but 10 years of this is a problem. It's thoughtful of you to think about her financial situation, but you also deserve to be happy. She can work, so it seems reasonable that she could find a full-time job instead of part-time.
Trust your guts. If she refuses to talk about it, try counselling and you're unhappy and frustrated, divorce is a better solution than waiting for the situation to become unbearable so you choose to cheat. Opt out and divorce might be the best and cleanest solution for your long term happiness NTA
Based off only what you've said, it's not about sexual intimacy. It's about more than that. She's withholding affection. Anything to make you believe that she cares about you or your marriage. She's also threatening divorce when she doesn't get what she wants. There's more to this than your comment. Give her what she wants. She wants to be left alone, she uses divorce as a means to get what she wants, and you want to be happy with a partner who loves and shows their love to you. NTA. Get the divorce.
This year is my Silver Anniversary and we have not had sex for 24 of those 25 years. My husband is impotent and due to on going health problems he cannot take "the little blue pill". After the first couple of years I found that sex is just not as important to me as the friendship, companionship, knowing he always has my back no matter what, the long nights of nothing but talking, telling each other our hopes and dreams and fears. Intimacy is not just sex. In fact, it is the least of it. This man appears to have nothing at all in his marriage; the lack of sex is just a small part of what he doesn't have. Yes, he should divorce her because it sounds like he is already alone.
10 years without intimacy is quite long. Couples need to discuss and each can make an effort. For example, if one is put off because the other only touches them for sex, they need to discuss that. Maybe a partner needs to adapt, such as being gentler during sex. There are even couples where the asexual one allows the other to have someone just for sex (but that requires open communication and negotiation, which I don't see with your wife). I think you need to move on - it sounds as if you're quite lonely. Being actually alone (as in being single) will make you available and certainly more desirable than a man who's still married.
If you are no longer close and she dislikes being too near you, I think it might be for the better if you divorce. You two don't seem like you will miss each other too much, but I'm worried about how it will affect your daughter. However, it may be unfair to stay in a relationship that both of you dislike. Besides, if there is a lack of intimacy, can it even be called a strong relationship?
just divorce. at least theres a justifiable reason for it this time.
If intimacy is the only problem than YTA. My husband and I have slept in separate rooms for most of our marriage because we both snore, he kicks, we work different shifts and prefer different mattresses (him hard as possible, me soft). I have not been interested in sex since March 2018. I spent April 2018 away from him visiting my family overseas for a month, come back home, get my first mammogram ever. In May 2018 I got diagnosed with stage 2A breast cancer & had 2 lumpectomies (same spot turned out the lump that was only found thanks to the mammogram was bigger than expected, took 2 surgeries to get it removed. 2018 was cancer year with chemo and radiation. At the time I was on paxil for anxiety which means I couldn't take the standard premenopausal d***s. From 12/18 to 9/23 I was getting luperon shots to be on menopause to take the anti cancer d**g to 12/23. My husband is a saint and understands that my lack of interest in sex is chemical induced.
First I think he does owe it to his wife of 20 years to get to the bottom of what she is, or isn't feeling. There are many scenarios. One, menopause could have affected her sex drive or caused discomfort. Fibroids at that age are very common and painful especially during sex. Two, she could be going through depression, or just too fatigued by her other responsibilities. How much does OP do to help? Three, it could be an issue with him. Have you ever asked her if sex is even pleasurable for her? Some men have no clue what pleasures a woman, and some women are afraid to speak up. Do you fight with her or put her down constantly?When she does need a hug, do you immediately want to jump in the sack? That can make a women feel like she is just a sexual object, if she isn't feeling the same. As for OP, 10 years is a long time to go without sex. Have the open sex talk and really listen. Help or change where you can. If there is no solution then you have a tough decision to make.
OP is not TA for wanting a divorce. OP is the AH for not even attempting to understand his wife's POV. Menopause is absolute hell on some women, especially if it begins at a younger age, and not just physically-yes even for 10+ years. OP doesn't want to even consider that. OP mentioned being rejected, but also mentioned that he keeps attempting to initiate sex and that's where the rejection started. Did OP ever consider that his ability to get off is not his wife's responsibility while she's going through something quite possibly hellish? His wife's rejection didn't begin with her not wanting to sit next to him. I don't know that I'd want to go to counseling with someone who only wanted to discuss why I won't help him get off when he wants, while ignoring how I'm feeling. They both deserve to be happy, and if it's not with each other, get a divorce. OP seems way too focused on the lack of desire from his wife, and less on his role in that and how he contributed to how bad things got.
If you two are unhappy then divorce and move forward with life. But I think there's a lot from your wife's side that you are not willing to understand and therefore only blame her. There's a reason for this behaviour and we know that if we women see that our partners don't get something after explaining over and over again, we just disengage. So really think, why did she disengage from you?
In a divorce, this is called “alienation of affection.” If she is refusing counseling or therapy, I would go ahead and proceed with divorce. She is basically just using you for financial stability but offering absolutely nothing to the relationship or the marriage. 10 years is a long time to be patient and tolerant. But enough is enough. You COULD be in a wonderful, blissful relationship. Not too late.
You worded what I wanted to say so much better :) You are completely correct. If he lives to be 80, he's wasted 1/8th of his life that he'll NEVER get back!
Load More Replies... She won't even sit next to OP and won't let him touch her, he should have been out of there years ago. All he is doing is financially supporting someone who doesn't want to be around him. She only has a part time job? At the age of 56? Boo-hoo. She is an adult, she can support herself and take her emotional abuse elsewhere.
You would NOT be the AH. I would like to point out that it's called Menopause, not the “change”. It's not some kind of secret disease. Your use of the language makes me wonder if you are aware of the physical affects of menopause and peri-menopause (the period leading up to menopause) and how drastically and sometimes devastatingly it can affect women's sexual function? Low libido, pain and vaginal dryness are common side effects of menopause and require some patience and creativity on the part of their partners to stimulate and encourage a healthy sex life. If your wife really wont engage in counselling then you are probably ten years too late and the marriage may very well be over. If you decide to take one last stab at it, start by researching menopause, its physical and emotional impact on women, and then using the appropriate language when you raise it with your wife. All that aside, you deserve to be loved and to have your needs met. You would not be an AH for leaving.
If you would have said "no sex for 10 years I'm out of here" then you're TA. But for her not wanting you to touch her at all and actually moving away from you. NTA. If you feel you have some time left for another woman, go for it. Your wife is not there for you. The fact that your 20 y.o. is still at home doesn't help either and she sees a lot more than you think.
My sex drive went to 0 the third time my SO threatened to end me. We are getting one side of the story here.
Load More Replies... As one who was forced in to menopause by cancer, I fully understand the low libido, lack of drive, feeling like I didn't deserve or want any kinds of physical attention. However, I am lucky to have a partner who cared enough to do the research for what I couldn't describe/what I was/am going through. He asked for couples counseling and we found that it was me that needed the one-on-one time with the counselor. It's been 7 years since the cancer started this, and I am glad I have him still by my side. I'm not back to what we were when we first started the relationship (hard to do), but we are both working on it. OP. If she isn't willing to get help I would not blame you in the least for leaving. NTA
TY. I'm glad to know that I'm not the only person with low libido and lack of drive thanks to the menopausal shots. The breast cancer support groups never bring up this problem post chemo/radiation.
Load More Replies... I agree with the other commenters that ten years of nothing but 'no' is hard to work through. Yes, menopause can be hard on a woman and things do change with regards to sexual needs. But sexuality is so much more than intercourse. It is touch, massage, hugs, kisses, sitting cuddled together on the couch, bathing together, even talking about it can do so much. If is has been ten years without any of that, they have a friendship. This can be enough for some, but it is clearly (and understandably, if non of the other activities were even an option) not enough for him. Promises made at the wedding aside, I can understand why he talks about divorce. If she treats him as nothing more than a good friend, she has no reason to keep calling it a marriage. If she wants to stay married, she will need to find ways to maintain that kind of intimacy that makes it a marriage. edit: in the last sentence, 'she' should be read as 'they'
He should also figure out how to get himself off, if that's what he needs so bad. I'm not quite getting why people are so focused on her behavior, or lack of it (and yes menopause is OFTEN so much more involved than people think, it can be pure hell, for years on end).He admitted he was constantly trying to initiate sex, and she, repeatedly, told him no. He admitted this issue started after she started going into menopause and that, even through that, he kept trying to initiate sex. Intimacy can be all kinds of things, but if one party always acts like being near one another should lead to whatever they want, it's pretty likely the other party will grow tired of it. How many times does someone have to say no, before it's okay to start pulling away further? The very first year this all started, he should've been more understanding, not continuing to pursue his own sexual agenda.
Load More Replies... I feel like people aren’t realizing that sex and intimacy are not the same thing. This isn’t just a “I’m not getting any” type of issue. It’s a true relational intimacy issue. Unless she decides to get therapy (hrp and/or mental health), and try to bring back some kind of intimacy, I feel like OP is well within his rights to file for divorce. She sounds mentally checked out of the marriage.
Why is the onus on her when he's the one who has said he constantly tries to initiate sex? Her refusal to sit by him didn't even start until he refused to quit trying to initiate the sex she said she doesn't want. People do know that sex and intimacy are not the same thing. I don't think the OP knows that though. All of her reluctance to be close to him started when he refused to knock his behavior off. He literally blames menopause and is now holding her entirely to blame for everything, instead of acknowledging his own role in the relationship taking. I'd be mentally checked out too if my partner insisted on sex constantly, blamed a perfectly normal human function, and me, for HIS lack of being able to get off when he wants to. How much is she supposed to put up with, and for how long, before it's okay for HER to say "that's enough"? Of course he can and should file for divorce, but it's not HER fault they got there, it started and ended with him.
Load More Replies... You are both- in a very tough place. You are exhausted and alone- and she is terrified- and alone. You emphasize she was your friend. I would try to get both to focus there, first. You need your friend to agree to some basic counseling- a good one who can just get her to talk. A woman 56 with a part time job? Of course she's terrified. You very clearly understand that- and don't want to hurt her- but I know your needs are real and hurtful. A counselor might be able to get you to: "We need change. How?" The word "divorce" is one I would avoid- it tends to pit people against each other; make a war where maybe you don't have to have one.
NTA. First of all, there's absolutely nothing wrong with divorcing your spouse when they refuse sex, touch, etc. and refuses for YEARS. She went from being a wife to a c**p roommate. My opinion is there are two reasons why the subject of divorce upsets her: 1) she knows she financially wants or needs you to survive so she doesn't have to work full-time and/or 2) she loves the control she has over you more than she loves you; she loves that she is the reason you aren't being intimate. Since you're the one initiating and she's the one refusing, she get her devious kicks out of rejecting you. You gave her years of chances. It's time to stop talking, start acting, file for a divorce, and move out or kick her out. She's a big girl and can take care of herself; she's most likely been "taking care of herself" for years since she's choosing to not get it from you.
I look forward to a day when we can, instead of "I'm divorcing YOU.." and all the turmoil; just arrive at "oh. We're not good together anymore. Happens. Let's move on." We ended my first marriage that way, 20 years, 2 kids - when we went for a lawyer to arrange things- we hired ONE lawyer - to just make things work. We didn't need one to advocate for each of us- we were in agreement- separate, equally. The lawyer was surprised! Took some convincing. But it worked fine.
Load More Replies... If she is unwilling to communicate with you , and refuses to go to counseling , there is not much that can be done. Marriage is a two-way street, and it seems like you are at the end of the road. I'm not one to immediately say divorce, but 10 years of this is a problem. It's thoughtful of you to think about her financial situation, but you also deserve to be happy. She can work, so it seems reasonable that she could find a full-time job instead of part-time.
Trust your guts. If she refuses to talk about it, try counselling and you're unhappy and frustrated, divorce is a better solution than waiting for the situation to become unbearable so you choose to cheat. Opt out and divorce might be the best and cleanest solution for your long term happiness NTA
Based off only what you've said, it's not about sexual intimacy. It's about more than that. She's withholding affection. Anything to make you believe that she cares about you or your marriage. She's also threatening divorce when she doesn't get what she wants. There's more to this than your comment. Give her what she wants. She wants to be left alone, she uses divorce as a means to get what she wants, and you want to be happy with a partner who loves and shows their love to you. NTA. Get the divorce.
This year is my Silver Anniversary and we have not had sex for 24 of those 25 years. My husband is impotent and due to on going health problems he cannot take "the little blue pill". After the first couple of years I found that sex is just not as important to me as the friendship, companionship, knowing he always has my back no matter what, the long nights of nothing but talking, telling each other our hopes and dreams and fears. Intimacy is not just sex. In fact, it is the least of it. This man appears to have nothing at all in his marriage; the lack of sex is just a small part of what he doesn't have. Yes, he should divorce her because it sounds like he is already alone.
10 years without intimacy is quite long. Couples need to discuss and each can make an effort. For example, if one is put off because the other only touches them for sex, they need to discuss that. Maybe a partner needs to adapt, such as being gentler during sex. There are even couples where the asexual one allows the other to have someone just for sex (but that requires open communication and negotiation, which I don't see with your wife). I think you need to move on - it sounds as if you're quite lonely. Being actually alone (as in being single) will make you available and certainly more desirable than a man who's still married.
If you are no longer close and she dislikes being too near you, I think it might be for the better if you divorce. You two don't seem like you will miss each other too much, but I'm worried about how it will affect your daughter. However, it may be unfair to stay in a relationship that both of you dislike. Besides, if there is a lack of intimacy, can it even be called a strong relationship?
just divorce. at least theres a justifiable reason for it this time.
If intimacy is the only problem than YTA. My husband and I have slept in separate rooms for most of our marriage because we both snore, he kicks, we work different shifts and prefer different mattresses (him hard as possible, me soft). I have not been interested in sex since March 2018. I spent April 2018 away from him visiting my family overseas for a month, come back home, get my first mammogram ever. In May 2018 I got diagnosed with stage 2A breast cancer & had 2 lumpectomies (same spot turned out the lump that was only found thanks to the mammogram was bigger than expected, took 2 surgeries to get it removed. 2018 was cancer year with chemo and radiation. At the time I was on paxil for anxiety which means I couldn't take the standard premenopausal d***s. From 12/18 to 9/23 I was getting luperon shots to be on menopause to take the anti cancer d**g to 12/23. My husband is a saint and understands that my lack of interest in sex is chemical induced.
First I think he does owe it to his wife of 20 years to get to the bottom of what she is, or isn't feeling. There are many scenarios. One, menopause could have affected her sex drive or caused discomfort. Fibroids at that age are very common and painful especially during sex. Two, she could be going through depression, or just too fatigued by her other responsibilities. How much does OP do to help? Three, it could be an issue with him. Have you ever asked her if sex is even pleasurable for her? Some men have no clue what pleasures a woman, and some women are afraid to speak up. Do you fight with her or put her down constantly?When she does need a hug, do you immediately want to jump in the sack? That can make a women feel like she is just a sexual object, if she isn't feeling the same. As for OP, 10 years is a long time to go without sex. Have the open sex talk and really listen. Help or change where you can. If there is no solution then you have a tough decision to make.
OP is not TA for wanting a divorce. OP is the AH for not even attempting to understand his wife's POV. Menopause is absolute hell on some women, especially if it begins at a younger age, and not just physically-yes even for 10+ years. OP doesn't want to even consider that. OP mentioned being rejected, but also mentioned that he keeps attempting to initiate sex and that's where the rejection started. Did OP ever consider that his ability to get off is not his wife's responsibility while she's going through something quite possibly hellish? His wife's rejection didn't begin with her not wanting to sit next to him. I don't know that I'd want to go to counseling with someone who only wanted to discuss why I won't help him get off when he wants, while ignoring how I'm feeling. They both deserve to be happy, and if it's not with each other, get a divorce. OP seems way too focused on the lack of desire from his wife, and less on his role in that and how he contributed to how bad things got.
If you two are unhappy then divorce and move forward with life. But I think there's a lot from your wife's side that you are not willing to understand and therefore only blame her. There's a reason for this behaviour and we know that if we women see that our partners don't get something after explaining over and over again, we just disengage. So really think, why did she disengage from you?
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