“Am I A Jerk For Skipping Christmas With My Parents Since They Won’t Treat Me Like An Adult?”
Oh, there’s no place like hoooome for the holidays…
Unless you don’t get along with your family. Then it might be best to go somewhere else…
Most of us love to be surrounded by our closest family members during the holiday season, but we don’t all have to celebrate the same way. If you live halfway across the world from your parents, it might not be feasible to go visit them. If you can’t take enough days off from work to travel, you might end up spending Christmas with your closest friends in town. Or if you have a tumultuous relationship with your family, it might be healthiest for you to set boundaries and spend the day without them.
However, sometimes, it’s just stubbornness that keeps us apart. Down below, you’ll find a story that one woman recently shared on the “Am I the [Jerk]?” subreddit explaining why she decided not to spend Christmas with her family, as well as some of the replies invested readers left her. Let us know in the comments below what you think about this situation, pandas, and feel free to share how you decided to celebrate the holidays this year as well. Then, if you’re interested in reading yet another Bored Panda article featuring family drama during the “most wonderful time of the year”, check out this story next!
After failing to tell her parents she would be skipping the Christmas gathering, this woman is now wondering if she should have handled the situation differently
Image credits: Nicole Michalou (not the actual photo)
Image credits: Nicole Michalou (not the actual photo)
Image credits: No_Review8351
She later responded to a few questions from readers and explained why she waited until the last minute to break the news
I understand what it’s like to spend Christmas away from your family members, as I’ve only been able to spend 1 out of the past 4 Christmases with my own family. But I certainly didn’t skip any celebrations out of spite. It was purely due to logistics of having to travel too far or miss too much work; if I could have spent every single Christmas with my parents and brothers, I happily would have. And while it’s a personal choice how anyone chooses to spend the holidays, it seems like missing an entire celebrating just to sleep in the same bed as the person you share a bed with every other night of the year is a tad bit petty.
As much as many families like to paint the perfect “Christmas card picture” of being happy, especially during the holidays, it’s actually incredibly common to be dealing with family drama this time of year. Suddenly living under the same roof as your parents and siblings and being constantly questioned about your love life and your career can be exhausting for people who have been living on their own for years, or even decades. In fact, one 2019 poll found that 75% of Americans admit to needing to escape from their families during the holidays. And on average, they can only tolerate 3 hours and 54 minutes with their relatives until they need to take a moment to themselves.
So how are we supposed to cope with the inevitable holiday drama? We don’t all want to skip the celebration altogether, but we also want to be careful not to damage our relationships because someone started discussing politics or asked when you’re going to start popping out babies. According to Charlotte Elkin, a Licensed Clinical Social Worker at the Oscar Center, there are a few healthy ways to manage that holiday season familial stress.
Elkin says that before you even board that flight home, it is important to understand your expectations ahead of time. “Do a personal inventory of the reasons why you’re spending time with family during the holidays,” she notes. “If you feel like you’re going home solely to meet someone else’s needs rather than your own, it might be time to adjust your plans or your expectations.” It’s also wise to come up with your own personal boundaries ahead of time. Know what topics will be off limits and how much time you will commit to spending with your family members to ensure you prioritize your own mental health.
Some readers assured the woman that she was not at fault
During the holidays, it’s also helpful to be mindful of substances. If you, or some of your family members, are particularly sensitive to alcohol, or likely to overindulge, remember that before the holiday cheer starts flowing. You don’t want to have any regrets or say things you wouldn’t say sober just because the stress of the holidays led you to having too many glasses of wine. And when you’re feeling anxious, just go take a breather.
“Breaks can be a great way to reset and let off some steam,” Elkin says. “Go for a walk. Get some fresh air. Take a jog to get your blood pumping. Meditate or do some yoga. If you start to feel yourself getting stressed, it’s okay to hit pause and reboot with some self care and relaxation. Just be sure to let others know that you’re coming back so they don’t misinterpret your absence or worry you got stuck in a chimney.”
While I’m glad this woman seems to have had a great holiday away from her family members, I can’t help but feel like with some improved communication and empathy, she could have reached an arrangement with her loved ones where they all could have celebrated together. We would love to hear your thoughts on this situation down below, pandas, as well as how you decided to spend this holiday season. I hope you all had/are having a wonderful Christmas, Hanukkah, Kwanzaa, or whatever else you choose to celebrate, and if you’re looking for another article highlighting family drama around the holidays, you can find that right here!
However, others believed that everyone involved should have conducted themselves differently
I think to everyone saying ESH, they don’t understand the power of and/or guilt-tripping that comes with a parent’s manipulation. Also I think she is in the position to know how her mom would have reacted if she had told her initially. She also knows how she would react to her mother’s reaction and made the decision that is right for her.
Exactly. What's the point in telling mom when you know her reaction is going to be messy? Op is smarter than that thankfully.
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You can't have a healthy family relationship without honesty. Without it, it's like trying to walk on a rotten floor. Painful or not, honesty is always the best policy, and guess what? Ultimately mom would probably actually respect her for it. You can't claim to be an adult when you play games with other people like that.
You are forgetting one fact of life, you can not earn the respect of or reason with crazy.
Angel, did you read the post? Did you read about dear mother's behavior? Doubt that she will respect anything. Op saved everyone the stress by not telling mama.
@ Mrs. Pugh I have a mother like that, not with the same points but same controlling behaviour in other points. And I did earn her respect by being honest and standing my ground. Do we have a healthy relationship? Absolutely not. But no more drama, no more attempts to push me anywhere because she knows perfectly well there is zero chance I'd put up with it. And actually she now is the one who's avoiding conflict because she know it'll not go her way. We have mutual respect for each other, we talk and meet sometimes. She's my mother that did her best to raise me in hard times after all, unfortunately what she thought the best was turned out to be wrong and she's too old and not strong enough to admit to it, I can life with that just as she can life with accepting that with me thing's don't go her way. And yes, this was years of hard work on my part.
Yeah, in a way she is putting up boundaries and trying to salvage the relationship, because I'm sure it's more then this ah move. But as others had said she probably needs to go no contact for a time. Tell her mom she's not coming and she's cutting off contact for 3 months. If after those 3 months the mother is willing to treat her with respect they can revaluate. I've done this before with my ex baby momma and no contact sends a wonderful message that what you're doing just will not be tolerated.
And this way you've set up a very firm boundary without doing any manipulation withholding or lieing.
Honestly, i think OP is just completely tired of moms archaic 1800s bible thumping nonsense. Most people share beds with their partner from their teens onwards, to try and be uptight about that in their 20s is absolutely ridiculous. There wasn't a diplomatic or logical approach to this where religious weirdo isn't going to react badly, op used a play on words to dodge drama. If someone's that puritan in this day and age they're going to be extremely close minded and bigoted in all the other ways as well so don't really feel bad haha
The issue is not their age. The issue is that they are unmarried. I know religious people and this is their mindset.
Or more that he hasn't even put a RING on it for people who just do not like to see their daughters taken advantage of as I know a lot like this who are not religious but just have high standards. They don't want that dynamic displayed to the younger daughters either. Momma bears be like this in certain parts of US...👏 from Houston moms out there I know
And it's not like she said she WAS coming. Her mother made that assumption all on her own.
And you know what happens when people lie by omission and others ASSUME...it makes an A$$ out of U and ME! 😆 So they ALL came off badly in the end. Angel is right that honesty is the best policy because at least the honest person keeps their integrity and doesn't become the thing they hate...manipulative, controlling and deceitful too. OP is unfortunately turning more into someone she doesn't want to be or she wouldn't be asking others if she is an AH and posting this to make her feel "justified" seeing as she claims to be a lawyer she knows they love to say "Two wrongs don't make a right" in court...so she comes to court of popular opinion & we only get her side and still many of us don't side with her. Some of us have had abuse and BPD, NPD people in our lives and learned to be authentic for ourselves and not let our PTSD trigger us into bad drama cycles anymore because we do it for our own sakes and hope others choose to be wiser, less toxic and more honest /upfront and can heal
Yep..for me, I turn off my phone and deal with my family's voicemails when I am ready. Btw..they absolutely go on social media and say Im the ahole for not answering my phone and not seeing them for the holidays. I do tell them ahead of time that I won't be there so no reason to include me.
VERY well put. Was about to comment the same thing, as my mother was contolling as well, but not in this toxic religulous sanctimony kind of way. We eventually learned to communicate constructively and now my mother is a valued advisor and innermost circle friend.
Right...like NONE of them have parents? An interesting take you have Tiger Pearl. We must all have been born from a test tube.
'They are trying to control me and treating me like a child' (pretty legitimate complain). 'So I'll passive aggressively lie to them, let them prepare for me at Christmas and just no show' In my family we get gifts for one another, organize and juggle sleep spaces and ensure we have food,especially special items, for everyone. I'd be livid if someone no showed when they knew they weren't coming. Complaining about being treated like a child while behaving like one is hilarious. (If OP had just said I'm not coming, I'd be with them'
I am 41 and I just had to do a similar situation with my own mother. If I tell her about my plans beforehand, drama ensues. Weeks long messages, calls, silent treatment, tears, threats, etc etc.
THIS, while it is not the most ' honorable' way to deal with the problem, it is a way to protect yourself from a lot of otherwise unavoidable sh*t. The question is if this solution will not lead to even more drama.. but those who don't understand the urge to avoid weeks of emotional blackmail are very lucky to not have this problem.
So you lie to avoid a shorter, intense and hard confrontation and the price you pay are life long struggles. Or you stand your ground, which means you neither attack nor run away but stay true to yourself. Go trough the tough s**t that this is once (which can be a years long conflict and self development) and have peace for the rest of your life. Been there, done it all, the avoiding, running away for a short time of peace, and in the end realising I have to grow up or it will never end. Life is so much better now.
Honestly? Its not on her to grow up, she did the best she knows to do to not have to deal with her mom, her mom is childish, she should grow up!
Wait a second... Did I read that right? Are you the opinion that if you act like a child as an adult it's not your responsibility to evolve but everybody else should adapt to your shortcomings?
It is, and she knows it deep down, otherwise she wouldn't be looking to AITA for validation.
Amen!
Spoken like someone with experience who grew out of old patterns and did the hard work to get to a better place and this OP and some commenters need to choose authentic and transparent way even though it is harder it is healthier and more honorable and doesn't bleed negatively into other parts of your life...thanks for pointing it out with first hand account. Honesty is best policy for your own self and integrity and well being and that is main reason to do it. Love yourself enough to do the right thing to help you in the long run instead of playing games that continue the drama. You are wise and hope OP gets good advice like yours and takes it as she is getting it from both sides, her BF, not even Fiance, is similar to her mom and being controlling and encouraging her to deceive and choose passive aggressive way so he is not good influence and sounds like she just likes his parents more BUT he's not chill like them at ALL otherwise he'd be like what's one night in separate beds...
She will have this problem until she puts a stop to it. I have been thru this. She needs to be firm and honest. If that doesn't work, ignoring them 'till they get the point works too.
No way...I refuse to believe it... No one would ever dare to speak to a 41 year old who calls themselves white wolf like that...I don't believe it ... Not even Mama wolf would dare to poke the bear .. I mean... wolf
Ever had to deal with a manipulative parent? It isn't as easy as you think.
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No parent is ever perfect, and neither is any child. As humans the desire to control others is hardwired into our dna, and we need to teach ourselves not to do it.
No, the desire to control others is NOT "hardwired into our DNA"! Where the heck are you getting that from? If that were true, there would not be parents who don't ever manipulate.
Honestly, treating your 30 year old daughter like a child and complaining when she acts like a child is hilarious. In fact, it is not even behaving like a child. It is a protective response to years of manipulation and drama. You can only be upfront and honest with people who respect upfront honesty and boundaries. If they constantly disrespect you, you do not have to prove to them that you deserve their respect by putting yourself in a vulnerable position with them. NTA.
They weren't behaving like a child, they had had enough. They wanted to avoid weeks of tearful drama and manipulation, which, in my opinion, is far more childish.
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So who's forcing her to communicate if she doesn't want to? I believe she indicated she lived far away, didn't she? And she doesn't have to talk/text/ or do Facebook with them if she doesn't want to, she can block them. My guess is she wants it both ways; she enjoys the hurt she causes others but then doesn't want to be called on it. Real adults make their choices and then own those. They don't play games and ghost close family members.
Wow. That was some seriously wild assumptions right there.
Some mothers have to be treated that way. Mine was one of them
Apparently you've never had the misfortune of dealing with a self-centered narcissistic controlling person. They don't take no for an answer!!!
But doesn't her BF, not fiance yet, seem like one too? This girl replaced one narc for another and doesn't even see it...and that's what this is Battle of the Narcs but at least one gave birth to her. She needs to dump BF and go NC with mom a while and really figure out who she is and realize she may be in bad dynamics with narcs and get her self educated and in a healthier place for real authentic success. Becoming as scheming and deceitful as the narcs in your life is NEVER the answer! She is slowly becoming one too if she doesn't stop because she already lied by omission, said it wasn't technically lying and then excuses her reactionary replies like a narc by saying she was drunk...she is sounding like she is learning bad narc behaviors and hope she can see it soon or do you disagree she is doing similar red flag behavior??
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Agree, but instead of going no contact with mom and cementing the rift she should work on having a better relationship with her. Bfs come and go, and even spouse, but you only have one mother. Besides she can't abandon mom and expect not to make things award with the rest of the family.
You're actually delulu omg.
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Name calling without any substance...that's a huge narc/immature red flag but they always tell on themselves due to the nature of the disorder. So thanks for clearing that up and showing you have no basic knowledge of Psychology, as it is typical for children to pick partners as adults who evoke familiarity and similar dynamics that were from their past and NOT resolved. It is very likely that OPs BF is like her mom, thus it's a power struggle and she is not aware. Look at how she is letting it impact her career. No good lawyer would let family drama on their social media. Not this day and age. But thanks for making all your previous comments make sense in light of this reply. For me, Angel and those talking about clinical Narcissism, we all now get you and since we're educated and experienced on topic, we prefer to offer OP/commenters advice that gets to healing and removes old bad patterns or people who are preventing healing. A good BF would want them to have a decent relationship with her parents and minimize drama. Period!
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ANGEL...I meant she should tell her mom she is going NC to work on herself. Sorry didn't get to explain that here but did somewhere else. If Mom respects that then that's a great sign. If not then once OP gets therapy and healing she will be able to handle mom better anyhow right?
You do not understand abusive parenting, which is a good thing for you, but please be aware of it and do not judge those of us unfortunate enough to understand it from personal trauma. Food, expense, sleeping arrangements are all irrelevant at this tier of manipulation. Incessant enforcement of adherence to dogma is cult behaviour, and anything else they do is invalidated by that cult behaviour. This woman never had a daughter, she had a hostage. Do not fault the hostage for being less than forthcoming with her former kidnapper. Trust me, you don't understand how blessed you are to need me explaining this to you. Ignorance in this case is perhaps not bliss, but does spare you lifelong emotional scars.
I reread it and still can't find the lie you're referring to
Exactly.
LOL someone not showing is not a big deal... Your be livid lol?. The world must end for you if Starbucks is out of whatever fruity "non" dairy milk you drink I assume? If anything a no show makes everything way easier. Extra space, food and people like you and your garbage family get to bad mouth someone not there... As I'm almost certain that's what your family gatherings must be like. I personally would have told them and took joy in the complaining but my family wouldn't behave like that. When I'm having a bad day I just think about how miserable people like yours good days are and keep on keeping on with a big smile. LIVID!!!! 😂
When anyone answers that she was TECHNICALLY not lying then YOU KNOW She KNEW exactly what she was doing & is deep down deceitful and manipulative too despite hating it in others. OP is now AH and created the extra drama this time even if mom creates it normally. Then to top it off by saying she drunk replied is just more excuses for doing what she knew wasn't honest, upfront and adult like. Her mom probably sees the boyfriend being all sneaky rubbing off on her daughter and said so because there is definitely details missing. OP just exchanged one controller for another...her boyfriend who won't even put a RING on it and her mom are butting heads. OP should be able to tell bf who cares about her future "hey we're going to respect her rules because it's just ONE night a year and we don't have sex every night anyhow" SO what's his REAL problem? Is it because he likes getting her to do things passive aggressive to upset her mom and assert His dominance? chill BF would. OP should dump BF and tell mom she needs space to focus on personal growth for a while! OP can do better and knows it is bottom line
Have you ever dealt with a manipulative parent? They are difficult to handle. You try being nice and firm with explaining, they start screaming and crying like you just ripped their heart out. You try being calm, firm, and direct. You get the same reaction or sometimes worse. They will berate you, harass you, leave threatening voicemails, manipulate other family members against you, etc. It can go on for months even years and your only option then is Low to Zero contact. So essentially ignoring them.
Yes. My mom has BPD and I know abuse and recovery. OP cannot heal and be her best self if she stoops to their tactics and then justifies it and acts like it's ok. Also, I pay attention to details and she is either leaving out important info, unaware due to lack of perspective or she is allowing this to consume and alter herself too much because it is making her be manipulative though she claims to hate that in her mom and is letting it impact her career if she is letting it on her social media and doing things drunk she knows better than to do. I am trying to point out she needs to take this seriously and assess herself and relationships beyond just her mom because her BF is not like his chill parents and is not thinking in her best interest long term if he is ever to be a fiance or husband. Your spouse should bring out best in you and minimize drama not make it worse, which he clearly did. But maybe I am just more experienced and not letting people make excuses because Ive been through WAY worse than this silliness and survived, then thrived and still forgiven and tried to stay authentic and promote that for others without apologies.
What
As someone watching firsthand what manipulation and guilt tripping from a parent like this does to a person, NTA. Lying to avoid weeks of that is not an a*****e move, and could genuinely be the difference between sanity and a spiral into depression. No way in a million years is OP the a*****e
As someone who has not only firsthand experience with such parents but also managed to overcome it - and that took me many, many years: avoiding the confrontation here is the biggest a-move you can do to yourself. By lying you chose to stay they child they view you, and you will be that child not only with your parents, but also with your partner, employer, friends, you'll always fall back to this child like behaviour. Facing your parents like and adult, standing your ground instead of acting like when you were a child that had no option but to lie can be and often is the hardest thing in your life, BUT ist also is the easiest way to become a grown up adult.
The mom bought ut om herself, she's the one who needs to grow up
That's not how it works: if you don't give people a reason to change the won't. And why should they? Would you change if you get everything you want just the way things are?
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Until you read the mom's pov and her story we just don't get full picture... My mom was abused and I had to deal with her BPD issues so I understand ..it is not one at fault over the other, it is who will stand up and say enough is enough and choose a harder better path and this 27 year old has a better chance than her mom because we understand things better today and have better help and resources. Her mom didn't grow up knowing Jack squat about NPD, Gaslighting, Dark Triads, therapy, etc...be the change you want to see I. The world because older people can't most of the time, right? I mean I feel for OP but as a mom and older and knowing my mom got her issues from abuse she didn't deserve I can see bigger picture and see patterns in life and know OP needs hard truths because she is at an age she can handle it and get help and focus on self since she isn't married with kids and OP really needs a Fiance who encourages honesty and promotes healthy behaviors and values her other connections in life and this BF doesn't do that so bye bye
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Becoming more like the toxic things in your life is not the right move so I agree with Mathias. Otherwise you are letting them win still...that's the dirty little thing you learn about dark triads and Narcissism, they have two ways to win and get supply so the only way is to do the hard work and be authentic for your own self worth and self love and rise above. Break the cycle and dynamics and bad patterns Do not justify your own bad by pointing at theirs otherwise you are part of the problem and perpetuating the toxicity and cognitive dissonance top
I think to everyone saying ESH, they don’t understand the power of and/or guilt-tripping that comes with a parent’s manipulation. Also I think she is in the position to know how her mom would have reacted if she had told her initially. She also knows how she would react to her mother’s reaction and made the decision that is right for her.
Exactly. What's the point in telling mom when you know her reaction is going to be messy? Op is smarter than that thankfully.
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You can't have a healthy family relationship without honesty. Without it, it's like trying to walk on a rotten floor. Painful or not, honesty is always the best policy, and guess what? Ultimately mom would probably actually respect her for it. You can't claim to be an adult when you play games with other people like that.
You are forgetting one fact of life, you can not earn the respect of or reason with crazy.
Angel, did you read the post? Did you read about dear mother's behavior? Doubt that she will respect anything. Op saved everyone the stress by not telling mama.
@ Mrs. Pugh I have a mother like that, not with the same points but same controlling behaviour in other points. And I did earn her respect by being honest and standing my ground. Do we have a healthy relationship? Absolutely not. But no more drama, no more attempts to push me anywhere because she knows perfectly well there is zero chance I'd put up with it. And actually she now is the one who's avoiding conflict because she know it'll not go her way. We have mutual respect for each other, we talk and meet sometimes. She's my mother that did her best to raise me in hard times after all, unfortunately what she thought the best was turned out to be wrong and she's too old and not strong enough to admit to it, I can life with that just as she can life with accepting that with me thing's don't go her way. And yes, this was years of hard work on my part.
Yeah, in a way she is putting up boundaries and trying to salvage the relationship, because I'm sure it's more then this ah move. But as others had said she probably needs to go no contact for a time. Tell her mom she's not coming and she's cutting off contact for 3 months. If after those 3 months the mother is willing to treat her with respect they can revaluate. I've done this before with my ex baby momma and no contact sends a wonderful message that what you're doing just will not be tolerated.
And this way you've set up a very firm boundary without doing any manipulation withholding or lieing.
Honestly, i think OP is just completely tired of moms archaic 1800s bible thumping nonsense. Most people share beds with their partner from their teens onwards, to try and be uptight about that in their 20s is absolutely ridiculous. There wasn't a diplomatic or logical approach to this where religious weirdo isn't going to react badly, op used a play on words to dodge drama. If someone's that puritan in this day and age they're going to be extremely close minded and bigoted in all the other ways as well so don't really feel bad haha
The issue is not their age. The issue is that they are unmarried. I know religious people and this is their mindset.
Or more that he hasn't even put a RING on it for people who just do not like to see their daughters taken advantage of as I know a lot like this who are not religious but just have high standards. They don't want that dynamic displayed to the younger daughters either. Momma bears be like this in certain parts of US...👏 from Houston moms out there I know
And it's not like she said she WAS coming. Her mother made that assumption all on her own.
And you know what happens when people lie by omission and others ASSUME...it makes an A$$ out of U and ME! 😆 So they ALL came off badly in the end. Angel is right that honesty is the best policy because at least the honest person keeps their integrity and doesn't become the thing they hate...manipulative, controlling and deceitful too. OP is unfortunately turning more into someone she doesn't want to be or she wouldn't be asking others if she is an AH and posting this to make her feel "justified" seeing as she claims to be a lawyer she knows they love to say "Two wrongs don't make a right" in court...so she comes to court of popular opinion & we only get her side and still many of us don't side with her. Some of us have had abuse and BPD, NPD people in our lives and learned to be authentic for ourselves and not let our PTSD trigger us into bad drama cycles anymore because we do it for our own sakes and hope others choose to be wiser, less toxic and more honest /upfront and can heal
Yep..for me, I turn off my phone and deal with my family's voicemails when I am ready. Btw..they absolutely go on social media and say Im the ahole for not answering my phone and not seeing them for the holidays. I do tell them ahead of time that I won't be there so no reason to include me.
VERY well put. Was about to comment the same thing, as my mother was contolling as well, but not in this toxic religulous sanctimony kind of way. We eventually learned to communicate constructively and now my mother is a valued advisor and innermost circle friend.
Right...like NONE of them have parents? An interesting take you have Tiger Pearl. We must all have been born from a test tube.
'They are trying to control me and treating me like a child' (pretty legitimate complain). 'So I'll passive aggressively lie to them, let them prepare for me at Christmas and just no show' In my family we get gifts for one another, organize and juggle sleep spaces and ensure we have food,especially special items, for everyone. I'd be livid if someone no showed when they knew they weren't coming. Complaining about being treated like a child while behaving like one is hilarious. (If OP had just said I'm not coming, I'd be with them'
I am 41 and I just had to do a similar situation with my own mother. If I tell her about my plans beforehand, drama ensues. Weeks long messages, calls, silent treatment, tears, threats, etc etc.
THIS, while it is not the most ' honorable' way to deal with the problem, it is a way to protect yourself from a lot of otherwise unavoidable sh*t. The question is if this solution will not lead to even more drama.. but those who don't understand the urge to avoid weeks of emotional blackmail are very lucky to not have this problem.
So you lie to avoid a shorter, intense and hard confrontation and the price you pay are life long struggles. Or you stand your ground, which means you neither attack nor run away but stay true to yourself. Go trough the tough s**t that this is once (which can be a years long conflict and self development) and have peace for the rest of your life. Been there, done it all, the avoiding, running away for a short time of peace, and in the end realising I have to grow up or it will never end. Life is so much better now.
Honestly? Its not on her to grow up, she did the best she knows to do to not have to deal with her mom, her mom is childish, she should grow up!
Wait a second... Did I read that right? Are you the opinion that if you act like a child as an adult it's not your responsibility to evolve but everybody else should adapt to your shortcomings?
It is, and she knows it deep down, otherwise she wouldn't be looking to AITA for validation.
Amen!
Spoken like someone with experience who grew out of old patterns and did the hard work to get to a better place and this OP and some commenters need to choose authentic and transparent way even though it is harder it is healthier and more honorable and doesn't bleed negatively into other parts of your life...thanks for pointing it out with first hand account. Honesty is best policy for your own self and integrity and well being and that is main reason to do it. Love yourself enough to do the right thing to help you in the long run instead of playing games that continue the drama. You are wise and hope OP gets good advice like yours and takes it as she is getting it from both sides, her BF, not even Fiance, is similar to her mom and being controlling and encouraging her to deceive and choose passive aggressive way so he is not good influence and sounds like she just likes his parents more BUT he's not chill like them at ALL otherwise he'd be like what's one night in separate beds...
She will have this problem until she puts a stop to it. I have been thru this. She needs to be firm and honest. If that doesn't work, ignoring them 'till they get the point works too.
No way...I refuse to believe it... No one would ever dare to speak to a 41 year old who calls themselves white wolf like that...I don't believe it ... Not even Mama wolf would dare to poke the bear .. I mean... wolf
Ever had to deal with a manipulative parent? It isn't as easy as you think.
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No parent is ever perfect, and neither is any child. As humans the desire to control others is hardwired into our dna, and we need to teach ourselves not to do it.
No, the desire to control others is NOT "hardwired into our DNA"! Where the heck are you getting that from? If that were true, there would not be parents who don't ever manipulate.
Honestly, treating your 30 year old daughter like a child and complaining when she acts like a child is hilarious. In fact, it is not even behaving like a child. It is a protective response to years of manipulation and drama. You can only be upfront and honest with people who respect upfront honesty and boundaries. If they constantly disrespect you, you do not have to prove to them that you deserve their respect by putting yourself in a vulnerable position with them. NTA.
They weren't behaving like a child, they had had enough. They wanted to avoid weeks of tearful drama and manipulation, which, in my opinion, is far more childish.
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So who's forcing her to communicate if she doesn't want to? I believe she indicated she lived far away, didn't she? And she doesn't have to talk/text/ or do Facebook with them if she doesn't want to, she can block them. My guess is she wants it both ways; she enjoys the hurt she causes others but then doesn't want to be called on it. Real adults make their choices and then own those. They don't play games and ghost close family members.
Wow. That was some seriously wild assumptions right there.
Some mothers have to be treated that way. Mine was one of them
Apparently you've never had the misfortune of dealing with a self-centered narcissistic controlling person. They don't take no for an answer!!!
But doesn't her BF, not fiance yet, seem like one too? This girl replaced one narc for another and doesn't even see it...and that's what this is Battle of the Narcs but at least one gave birth to her. She needs to dump BF and go NC with mom a while and really figure out who she is and realize she may be in bad dynamics with narcs and get her self educated and in a healthier place for real authentic success. Becoming as scheming and deceitful as the narcs in your life is NEVER the answer! She is slowly becoming one too if she doesn't stop because she already lied by omission, said it wasn't technically lying and then excuses her reactionary replies like a narc by saying she was drunk...she is sounding like she is learning bad narc behaviors and hope she can see it soon or do you disagree she is doing similar red flag behavior??
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Agree, but instead of going no contact with mom and cementing the rift she should work on having a better relationship with her. Bfs come and go, and even spouse, but you only have one mother. Besides she can't abandon mom and expect not to make things award with the rest of the family.
You're actually delulu omg.
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Name calling without any substance...that's a huge narc/immature red flag but they always tell on themselves due to the nature of the disorder. So thanks for clearing that up and showing you have no basic knowledge of Psychology, as it is typical for children to pick partners as adults who evoke familiarity and similar dynamics that were from their past and NOT resolved. It is very likely that OPs BF is like her mom, thus it's a power struggle and she is not aware. Look at how she is letting it impact her career. No good lawyer would let family drama on their social media. Not this day and age. But thanks for making all your previous comments make sense in light of this reply. For me, Angel and those talking about clinical Narcissism, we all now get you and since we're educated and experienced on topic, we prefer to offer OP/commenters advice that gets to healing and removes old bad patterns or people who are preventing healing. A good BF would want them to have a decent relationship with her parents and minimize drama. Period!
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ANGEL...I meant she should tell her mom she is going NC to work on herself. Sorry didn't get to explain that here but did somewhere else. If Mom respects that then that's a great sign. If not then once OP gets therapy and healing she will be able to handle mom better anyhow right?
You do not understand abusive parenting, which is a good thing for you, but please be aware of it and do not judge those of us unfortunate enough to understand it from personal trauma. Food, expense, sleeping arrangements are all irrelevant at this tier of manipulation. Incessant enforcement of adherence to dogma is cult behaviour, and anything else they do is invalidated by that cult behaviour. This woman never had a daughter, she had a hostage. Do not fault the hostage for being less than forthcoming with her former kidnapper. Trust me, you don't understand how blessed you are to need me explaining this to you. Ignorance in this case is perhaps not bliss, but does spare you lifelong emotional scars.
I reread it and still can't find the lie you're referring to
Exactly.
LOL someone not showing is not a big deal... Your be livid lol?. The world must end for you if Starbucks is out of whatever fruity "non" dairy milk you drink I assume? If anything a no show makes everything way easier. Extra space, food and people like you and your garbage family get to bad mouth someone not there... As I'm almost certain that's what your family gatherings must be like. I personally would have told them and took joy in the complaining but my family wouldn't behave like that. When I'm having a bad day I just think about how miserable people like yours good days are and keep on keeping on with a big smile. LIVID!!!! 😂
When anyone answers that she was TECHNICALLY not lying then YOU KNOW She KNEW exactly what she was doing & is deep down deceitful and manipulative too despite hating it in others. OP is now AH and created the extra drama this time even if mom creates it normally. Then to top it off by saying she drunk replied is just more excuses for doing what she knew wasn't honest, upfront and adult like. Her mom probably sees the boyfriend being all sneaky rubbing off on her daughter and said so because there is definitely details missing. OP just exchanged one controller for another...her boyfriend who won't even put a RING on it and her mom are butting heads. OP should be able to tell bf who cares about her future "hey we're going to respect her rules because it's just ONE night a year and we don't have sex every night anyhow" SO what's his REAL problem? Is it because he likes getting her to do things passive aggressive to upset her mom and assert His dominance? chill BF would. OP should dump BF and tell mom she needs space to focus on personal growth for a while! OP can do better and knows it is bottom line
Have you ever dealt with a manipulative parent? They are difficult to handle. You try being nice and firm with explaining, they start screaming and crying like you just ripped their heart out. You try being calm, firm, and direct. You get the same reaction or sometimes worse. They will berate you, harass you, leave threatening voicemails, manipulate other family members against you, etc. It can go on for months even years and your only option then is Low to Zero contact. So essentially ignoring them.
Yes. My mom has BPD and I know abuse and recovery. OP cannot heal and be her best self if she stoops to their tactics and then justifies it and acts like it's ok. Also, I pay attention to details and she is either leaving out important info, unaware due to lack of perspective or she is allowing this to consume and alter herself too much because it is making her be manipulative though she claims to hate that in her mom and is letting it impact her career if she is letting it on her social media and doing things drunk she knows better than to do. I am trying to point out she needs to take this seriously and assess herself and relationships beyond just her mom because her BF is not like his chill parents and is not thinking in her best interest long term if he is ever to be a fiance or husband. Your spouse should bring out best in you and minimize drama not make it worse, which he clearly did. But maybe I am just more experienced and not letting people make excuses because Ive been through WAY worse than this silliness and survived, then thrived and still forgiven and tried to stay authentic and promote that for others without apologies.
What
As someone watching firsthand what manipulation and guilt tripping from a parent like this does to a person, NTA. Lying to avoid weeks of that is not an a*****e move, and could genuinely be the difference between sanity and a spiral into depression. No way in a million years is OP the a*****e