Woman Asks Other Women How They Deal With Not Being ‘Pretty’, And This Man’s Reply Gets Most Upvotes
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The subreddit AskWomen describes itself as a place dedicated to asking women questions about their thoughts, lives, and experiences; providing a place where all women can comfortably and candidly share their responses in a non-judgmental space.
One woman decided to open up about her jealousy about women who are born beautiful; she believes that she herself is an ‘ugly girl’ and never will be beautiful. Her feelings about her own appearance affect her daily life, blaming her ‘ugliness’ on everything negative that happens to her, even though she knows she is a good person. Curious to know how other ‘ugly people’ deal with not being pretty, she went on to ask for life tips: “How do you deal with not being attractive to most men? How do you accept how you look and learn to love yourself, regardless?” (Facebook cover image: emifasho)
Image credits:j bizzie
The post attracted tons of comments offering all kinds of insightful life advice and experiences. One really stood out, however, and it was written from a man’s perspective. The former Marine, who sustained severe injuries after his helicopter got shot down over Iraq, felt let down by Veterans Affairs in his area and had to rely on family and friends for support when times were tough. He knows how it feels to struggle with body issues and gives support whenever he can.
“It’s from the heart. It was written in one sitting at a coffee shop before work,” he told Bored Panda. “It sort of poured out of me, and it’s as honest as I know how to be. I still believe it, years after writing it.”
“I’m not known for giving good advice in matters of love. I’m a big former Marine who teaches Krav Maga in his spare time. I do EMS in the ghetto. I have a terribly dark, sarcastic sense of humor – the kind that really offends people who haven’t seen what I’ve seen, been where I’ve been. Soccer moms think I’m a monster, and coroners invite me to their holiday parties. I’d imagine a lot of people would be shocked to know I wrote that response, that I think and feel those things.”
“I am one of those people that folks seem to confide in, though. Maybe they know they aren’t going to shock me, and I’ll give honest advice if they ask. I’m also very respectful of people’s privacy. I think I was driven to respond to her because I saw some parallels in our experiences that might not be obvious to her, or to the casual reader. We’re also inherently different enough that my perspective might benefit her, perhaps give her a new way to look in how to find love.”
“I really hope she’s happy and falling in love these days, doing good stuff with people who love her.”
Here’s what people had to say about it
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What he said was truly beautiful. But I think her real problem is not seeking for love from a man as much as seeking approval from society. Aesthetics... they do matter.
I feel like the same thing applies to 'Be yourself'. There's a limit to how much of 'yourself' you can be. You still have to comply to societies unwritten rules, or risk not being accepted, and not forming connections. And there is no getting around that, it's just the way it is.
I totally feel her.
They do, but every other human you meet will see you through his/her own eyes, with own filter. Nobody sees you the same way and definitely not as you see yourself, as you only see your reflection. Happy people see the pretty in people, unhappy people see the ugly in them. And there is nothing you can do about how people see you. I hope the OP solves her self image, however she feels fit, and can live happy ever after
True. Although I disagree with the "unhappy people see ugly in them". Many unhappy people see the beauty of everyone and everything, and that beauty, somehow, makes them sad. Various people, various views. Not much one can do about. *shrug*
Ive met enough people to know that none of them see me the way I see me, and none of their ideas really match each other. To some I’m ugly, to some I’m a Plain Jane, and to others I’m beautiful. I focused on trying to be the best me possible a long time ago.
On the converse of societal standards of views on beauty. I am considered very attractive by societal standards, but as woman that works in the sciences, I have found that I cannot be "too attractive" otherwise I have a harder time being taken seriously. The difference between make up and a cute outfit vs no make up and ill-fitting clothes while presenting data at a conference is astounding. I even do this day to day at my job as I receive better results. I was fortunate I discovered this at a young age. I would rather someone look at me and think "Damn, she is smart" over "Damn, she is hot" any day. And perhaps using your looks can get you things, but I have never been able to sink to that level because you lose so much in doing that.
I get "You're smart!" all the time. I seldom get "You're hot!". It would nice if I heard "You're hot! at least once in a while. Balance in all things.
I agree. That's why I don't get Insta or Snapchat-- I worry it will pressure me into trying to get self-worth by being attractive, not smart or imaginative or creative or anything else.
What she needs to do is try to accept herself as wonderful regardless of what men or society think. Another person can be a wonderful companion, but if you don't like yourself then you probably won't be happy.
That's true. But it's easier said than done. Takes a "switch turning on" in your brain to make you decide, "from today, I'm gonna work hard and do whatever's neccessary to become the person I wanna be and look like". And to keep the hardly earned positive changes, it takes support from others (compliments, good manners, friendliness and better treatment over all).
The less you give a fuck about how 'society' perceives you, the better for your mental health. Focus instead on what makes you feel good inside and make yourself a better person.
That would seem much better for the mind, but what with all the propaganda in society, it's really hard to 100%, completely, totally shut out all negative self image. I've gotten better at seeing positives, but sometimes my mind brings up the "I'm ugly" or "I'm not good at life" thoughts. The good thing is, sometimes having music available, or a good book, helps take my mind off it.
I think it is important to take care of yourself but in the long run, personality and confidence are the real winners here.
They actually. . .don't really matter. Sure, an aesthetic is basically your style, or whatever, but it's not who you truly ARE.
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In order to become friends with such a man, he would have to be open to talking to you in the first place. As an unattractive middle aged woman, I find people have no interest in talking to me, even though I'm a happy, fun person. I do understand how that girl feels. Can't help wondering what it's like to be beautiful. Society seems to heap so much privilege and opportunity on the attractive people.
Trust me, Im young unattractive woman and people have no desire to talk to me either. Hoped that with age Im gonna care less but even though Im not thinking about it as often, it still hurts. Always being overlooked, ignored, the one which doesn´t get invited anywhere...
Finally someone with perspective instead of rose coloured glasses. I am average and middle aged. The pretty women get the attention
I know these comments are older than my cousin, but I'm still going to respond to them anyway. While it's true the pretty women get attention, is all of it positive? Us average and ugly girls are - in a way - lucky, since we're not plagued by that negative attention as much. And, as for people who say we're ugly and no one will love us, what do they know? THEIR DUMB OPINION DOES NOT DETERMINE MY WORTH. WHY DOES THIS PERSON'S OPINION MATTER? THEY CAN'T DETERMINE EVERYTHING ABOUT ME THROUGH LOOKING AT ME. I think these words everyday and it does help.
This comment has been deleted.
Men won't even Look at me. In a normal, everyday setting. I'm a very open, friendly person. I talk to people just because they're there because I enjoy talking to people, listening to them. But I've noticed (and it gets worse the older I get) Men won't even Look at me. If I try to be friendly, at work, in a line, in a store, in a social setting...the moment I look at them, they look away-as if they're terrified if they make eye contact, I'll turn into some crazy who will jump them. It's both weird, disconcerting and depressing. Men are the most shallow creatures on the planet. If they don't think you're pretty or they don't have a Use for you (as in sex) they want to pretend you don't exist. I am not overweight, I'm in good shape, have an interesting life, well traveled and educated. I don't think about this all the time, or let it ruin my life, but some days, I just with I had some one to share my life with. And unless I get a fortune in plastic surgery I don't see it happening
That's what I always say too. Personality only matters after you're pretty enough to at least get people interested in the first place. Sure, nobody likes an asshole, no matter how beautiful... but it doesn't matter how fun and nice one might be if nobody even looks their way either. Not to mention it's obviously easier to be fun and outgoing when you're pretty - getting praised and accepted everywhere definitely makes it easier to be easygoing than to be constantly dismissed, ignored and rejected.
So right - when you're "plain" (a nice, old-fashioned way of saying ugly), nobody is interested in noticing you. I'm ugly and middle-aged, having been plain all my life. When I was younger, sex in the dark was a lure for some guys - they didn't hang around in the morning, for sure. I managed to fluke a relationship with a nice guy who gave me a lift home (a four hour drive) after the person I had travelled to a party with found someone better-looking and took off, leaving me stranded. Over the drive, this nice fella and I talked and laughed a lot. We started a relationship a few weeks later after many phone calls and laughter. He and I married two years later, my physical attraction was not an issue for him. Flash forward 31 years of happy marriage, he died. I have not been spoken to in a personal way by a man in the past six years since - it appears I have become invisible again.
Ugh, same. It makes me sad.
I'm reading your comment Jo and those replying to you and I see so many women disheartened and it breaks my heart. There are so many amazing people out there in the world who want to get to know people just like you - and I hate that the bad ones have gotten to you first. Part of the problem is that being treated like that over and over again means that our confidence takes a dive. Take some time to rebuild your confidence, learn who you are, learn to love yourself (yes I know how cliche that sounds) and then you will be able to dismiss those unworthy of your time much easier. I'm speaking from experience.
What works with most people is to first let them talk. That not only gives them a positive impression of you, it helps you get to know them.
This. What this guy said was lovely and all, but it only applies if there's an initial attraction.
I was a lovely young woman, some even said beautiful. Then I became middle aged and now am pushing my 70th decade. I spent hundreds of dollars on beauty concoctions, potions to stop aging, etc. I still look damn good for my age. Years younger. I have kept up with the world, know my tech, and am a 'cool' person. But men look right through me. Years ago they would look and linger and try to engage in conversation. No more. They see my smiling face but look away or look thru me as if I were invisible. There is no opportunity to 'get to know' anyone ... just doesn't happen. No matter what the age of the man, I don't exist. My age has made me invisible.
I'm a guy in my early 30s and I have no interest in talking to beautiful women, in fact the more beautiful the more extreme my reaction. I actually try to avoid them. Due to some heart breaks that happened to me during my teen years. Now if I see a good looking woman, I immediately presume that she has a crappy attitude and will avoid her. I think alot of guys feel that way. That's why average looking women get the majority of men who hit on them or pursue them. When the average man sees a gorgeous woman he immediately presumes A) She has no interest in talking to him, B) She has a boyfriend or C) A combination of both and will be extremely uptight and rude about the interaction. The sad thing is that men are almost always correct about all 3 of those points.
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Sadly, there is a good reason why men often won't talk to you, attractive or otherwise. We live in a society that now equates saying hello to a woman as "Cat calling". Don't believe me, review some of the walking around videos they did regarding unwanted attention and you'll see guys that did little more than say hi being lumped in with the guys who say inappropriate things. You have movie stars terrified of being one of "those" guys ffs. The only safe thing to do is to not talk to anyone unless there is a specific reason to do so. And no, you can't just drop a "sign" and expect men to pick up on it because they have been trained that a sign from some means nothing from another. You need to use your words and be clear ... and be ready for rejection just as men have endured for the last century of so of dating. Sorry ladies, the ball is now in your court because some ladies that oft as not don't even like men have picked it up and you have to deal with the consequences.
Richard Starr, 'unattractive' women have been treated badly for much longer (years, decades) than men have been accused of sexual harassment. So don't use this, 'I am terrified of talking to women cause they will interpret my talking to them as sexual harassment' lame excuse for how you treat 'unattractive' females. I don't buy it. You will still ignore these women regardless of whether you are frightened of being accused of sexual harassment or not.
I am an unattractive middle-aged woman who uses a cane. Not once has a man offered me a seat on transit. Women do, never men. My only conclusion is that far too many men will offer kindness to a woman only if she's bangable.
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If you don't have looks you have to have game.
Kirk Loren, what would you mean by having game? I've heard the term, but not sure what it means.
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show cleavage or somethin if u want men to be attracted to u
I'm not good looking, but that doesn't bother me. I don't seek an external locus of validation. Perhaps it's easier being on the spectrum, but it seems rational to me - I am responsible for who I am and how I allow myself to feel about who I am, and anyone who has a problem with it probably isn't worth the bother of my attention anyway so that bother automatically falls away. I am who I am, and that's OK, and I don't need to be anyone else or approved of by anyone else. My friends and family love me and that's enough.
I think it also depends on how ugly you are. If you’re quite unattractive, it makes sense that at some point you just let it go and just be happy being yourself. If you’re more middle of the road, and you’re cute in certain lights but could never stack up to an actually beautiful person, then it’s gonna be harder. Because you’ll be constantly compared to beautiful people, and expected to try and measure up. Whereas someone who objectively looks bad won’t be held to that standard. People will try to find other kinds of good in you.
This describes my experience very well. I call it the 6/10 problem. I'm conventionally attractive enough to be judged on my looks, but it's a constant struggle for me to maintain that image because I'm not actually a beautiful person. It's always justttt missing the mark. Being skinny enough to wear that trendy outfit but looking a little awkward because your body isn't shaped quite right. Wanting to share your makeup looks on Instagram but finding it just doesn't look right because your facial features don't measure up. Being good enough for a hookup with a guy you have a crush on, but not good enough to date. People getting mad at you for being unhappy with your looks because they don't get why someone as perfectly okay looking as you might not be happy with themselves. It's people pointing out little flaws in your appearance like it's their right. Acting like you're vain for wanting surgery to fix those flaws. Don't get me wrong I'm grateful for what I have, but it also sucks.
Wow we are soul sisters...your words just described me perfectly..always felt pretty vain for obsessing in ways but you are right its hard when youre juuusst missing the mark as you said..oh well..just like you I'm grateful and blessed in so many other ways
This is only true to a certain point where you can actually avoid the people who think badly of your because of your looks. The fact is, we live in a society and we all need to interact with other whether we want to or not, and whether you like it or not, the way other perceive us will affect how much they're willing to do for us, so looks do affect our lives every day, in things such as whether someone will help you when you're in trouble, whether you can get a discount at a shop, whether you do or don't get selected for a job, it always matters.
Excellent post
What he said was truly beautiful. But I think her real problem is not seeking for love from a man as much as seeking approval from society. Aesthetics... they do matter.
I feel like the same thing applies to 'Be yourself'. There's a limit to how much of 'yourself' you can be. You still have to comply to societies unwritten rules, or risk not being accepted, and not forming connections. And there is no getting around that, it's just the way it is.
I totally feel her.
They do, but every other human you meet will see you through his/her own eyes, with own filter. Nobody sees you the same way and definitely not as you see yourself, as you only see your reflection. Happy people see the pretty in people, unhappy people see the ugly in them. And there is nothing you can do about how people see you. I hope the OP solves her self image, however she feels fit, and can live happy ever after
True. Although I disagree with the "unhappy people see ugly in them". Many unhappy people see the beauty of everyone and everything, and that beauty, somehow, makes them sad. Various people, various views. Not much one can do about. *shrug*
Ive met enough people to know that none of them see me the way I see me, and none of their ideas really match each other. To some I’m ugly, to some I’m a Plain Jane, and to others I’m beautiful. I focused on trying to be the best me possible a long time ago.
On the converse of societal standards of views on beauty. I am considered very attractive by societal standards, but as woman that works in the sciences, I have found that I cannot be "too attractive" otherwise I have a harder time being taken seriously. The difference between make up and a cute outfit vs no make up and ill-fitting clothes while presenting data at a conference is astounding. I even do this day to day at my job as I receive better results. I was fortunate I discovered this at a young age. I would rather someone look at me and think "Damn, she is smart" over "Damn, she is hot" any day. And perhaps using your looks can get you things, but I have never been able to sink to that level because you lose so much in doing that.
I get "You're smart!" all the time. I seldom get "You're hot!". It would nice if I heard "You're hot! at least once in a while. Balance in all things.
I agree. That's why I don't get Insta or Snapchat-- I worry it will pressure me into trying to get self-worth by being attractive, not smart or imaginative or creative or anything else.
What she needs to do is try to accept herself as wonderful regardless of what men or society think. Another person can be a wonderful companion, but if you don't like yourself then you probably won't be happy.
That's true. But it's easier said than done. Takes a "switch turning on" in your brain to make you decide, "from today, I'm gonna work hard and do whatever's neccessary to become the person I wanna be and look like". And to keep the hardly earned positive changes, it takes support from others (compliments, good manners, friendliness and better treatment over all).
The less you give a fuck about how 'society' perceives you, the better for your mental health. Focus instead on what makes you feel good inside and make yourself a better person.
That would seem much better for the mind, but what with all the propaganda in society, it's really hard to 100%, completely, totally shut out all negative self image. I've gotten better at seeing positives, but sometimes my mind brings up the "I'm ugly" or "I'm not good at life" thoughts. The good thing is, sometimes having music available, or a good book, helps take my mind off it.
I think it is important to take care of yourself but in the long run, personality and confidence are the real winners here.
They actually. . .don't really matter. Sure, an aesthetic is basically your style, or whatever, but it's not who you truly ARE.
This comment has been deleted.
In order to become friends with such a man, he would have to be open to talking to you in the first place. As an unattractive middle aged woman, I find people have no interest in talking to me, even though I'm a happy, fun person. I do understand how that girl feels. Can't help wondering what it's like to be beautiful. Society seems to heap so much privilege and opportunity on the attractive people.
Trust me, Im young unattractive woman and people have no desire to talk to me either. Hoped that with age Im gonna care less but even though Im not thinking about it as often, it still hurts. Always being overlooked, ignored, the one which doesn´t get invited anywhere...
Finally someone with perspective instead of rose coloured glasses. I am average and middle aged. The pretty women get the attention
I know these comments are older than my cousin, but I'm still going to respond to them anyway. While it's true the pretty women get attention, is all of it positive? Us average and ugly girls are - in a way - lucky, since we're not plagued by that negative attention as much. And, as for people who say we're ugly and no one will love us, what do they know? THEIR DUMB OPINION DOES NOT DETERMINE MY WORTH. WHY DOES THIS PERSON'S OPINION MATTER? THEY CAN'T DETERMINE EVERYTHING ABOUT ME THROUGH LOOKING AT ME. I think these words everyday and it does help.
This comment has been deleted.
Men won't even Look at me. In a normal, everyday setting. I'm a very open, friendly person. I talk to people just because they're there because I enjoy talking to people, listening to them. But I've noticed (and it gets worse the older I get) Men won't even Look at me. If I try to be friendly, at work, in a line, in a store, in a social setting...the moment I look at them, they look away-as if they're terrified if they make eye contact, I'll turn into some crazy who will jump them. It's both weird, disconcerting and depressing. Men are the most shallow creatures on the planet. If they don't think you're pretty or they don't have a Use for you (as in sex) they want to pretend you don't exist. I am not overweight, I'm in good shape, have an interesting life, well traveled and educated. I don't think about this all the time, or let it ruin my life, but some days, I just with I had some one to share my life with. And unless I get a fortune in plastic surgery I don't see it happening
That's what I always say too. Personality only matters after you're pretty enough to at least get people interested in the first place. Sure, nobody likes an asshole, no matter how beautiful... but it doesn't matter how fun and nice one might be if nobody even looks their way either. Not to mention it's obviously easier to be fun and outgoing when you're pretty - getting praised and accepted everywhere definitely makes it easier to be easygoing than to be constantly dismissed, ignored and rejected.
So right - when you're "plain" (a nice, old-fashioned way of saying ugly), nobody is interested in noticing you. I'm ugly and middle-aged, having been plain all my life. When I was younger, sex in the dark was a lure for some guys - they didn't hang around in the morning, for sure. I managed to fluke a relationship with a nice guy who gave me a lift home (a four hour drive) after the person I had travelled to a party with found someone better-looking and took off, leaving me stranded. Over the drive, this nice fella and I talked and laughed a lot. We started a relationship a few weeks later after many phone calls and laughter. He and I married two years later, my physical attraction was not an issue for him. Flash forward 31 years of happy marriage, he died. I have not been spoken to in a personal way by a man in the past six years since - it appears I have become invisible again.
Ugh, same. It makes me sad.
I'm reading your comment Jo and those replying to you and I see so many women disheartened and it breaks my heart. There are so many amazing people out there in the world who want to get to know people just like you - and I hate that the bad ones have gotten to you first. Part of the problem is that being treated like that over and over again means that our confidence takes a dive. Take some time to rebuild your confidence, learn who you are, learn to love yourself (yes I know how cliche that sounds) and then you will be able to dismiss those unworthy of your time much easier. I'm speaking from experience.
What works with most people is to first let them talk. That not only gives them a positive impression of you, it helps you get to know them.
This. What this guy said was lovely and all, but it only applies if there's an initial attraction.
I was a lovely young woman, some even said beautiful. Then I became middle aged and now am pushing my 70th decade. I spent hundreds of dollars on beauty concoctions, potions to stop aging, etc. I still look damn good for my age. Years younger. I have kept up with the world, know my tech, and am a 'cool' person. But men look right through me. Years ago they would look and linger and try to engage in conversation. No more. They see my smiling face but look away or look thru me as if I were invisible. There is no opportunity to 'get to know' anyone ... just doesn't happen. No matter what the age of the man, I don't exist. My age has made me invisible.
I'm a guy in my early 30s and I have no interest in talking to beautiful women, in fact the more beautiful the more extreme my reaction. I actually try to avoid them. Due to some heart breaks that happened to me during my teen years. Now if I see a good looking woman, I immediately presume that she has a crappy attitude and will avoid her. I think alot of guys feel that way. That's why average looking women get the majority of men who hit on them or pursue them. When the average man sees a gorgeous woman he immediately presumes A) She has no interest in talking to him, B) She has a boyfriend or C) A combination of both and will be extremely uptight and rude about the interaction. The sad thing is that men are almost always correct about all 3 of those points.
This comment is hidden. Click here to view.
Sadly, there is a good reason why men often won't talk to you, attractive or otherwise. We live in a society that now equates saying hello to a woman as "Cat calling". Don't believe me, review some of the walking around videos they did regarding unwanted attention and you'll see guys that did little more than say hi being lumped in with the guys who say inappropriate things. You have movie stars terrified of being one of "those" guys ffs. The only safe thing to do is to not talk to anyone unless there is a specific reason to do so. And no, you can't just drop a "sign" and expect men to pick up on it because they have been trained that a sign from some means nothing from another. You need to use your words and be clear ... and be ready for rejection just as men have endured for the last century of so of dating. Sorry ladies, the ball is now in your court because some ladies that oft as not don't even like men have picked it up and you have to deal with the consequences.
Richard Starr, 'unattractive' women have been treated badly for much longer (years, decades) than men have been accused of sexual harassment. So don't use this, 'I am terrified of talking to women cause they will interpret my talking to them as sexual harassment' lame excuse for how you treat 'unattractive' females. I don't buy it. You will still ignore these women regardless of whether you are frightened of being accused of sexual harassment or not.
I am an unattractive middle-aged woman who uses a cane. Not once has a man offered me a seat on transit. Women do, never men. My only conclusion is that far too many men will offer kindness to a woman only if she's bangable.
This comment is hidden. Click here to view.
If you don't have looks you have to have game.
Kirk Loren, what would you mean by having game? I've heard the term, but not sure what it means.
This comment is hidden. Click here to view.
show cleavage or somethin if u want men to be attracted to u
I'm not good looking, but that doesn't bother me. I don't seek an external locus of validation. Perhaps it's easier being on the spectrum, but it seems rational to me - I am responsible for who I am and how I allow myself to feel about who I am, and anyone who has a problem with it probably isn't worth the bother of my attention anyway so that bother automatically falls away. I am who I am, and that's OK, and I don't need to be anyone else or approved of by anyone else. My friends and family love me and that's enough.
I think it also depends on how ugly you are. If you’re quite unattractive, it makes sense that at some point you just let it go and just be happy being yourself. If you’re more middle of the road, and you’re cute in certain lights but could never stack up to an actually beautiful person, then it’s gonna be harder. Because you’ll be constantly compared to beautiful people, and expected to try and measure up. Whereas someone who objectively looks bad won’t be held to that standard. People will try to find other kinds of good in you.
This describes my experience very well. I call it the 6/10 problem. I'm conventionally attractive enough to be judged on my looks, but it's a constant struggle for me to maintain that image because I'm not actually a beautiful person. It's always justttt missing the mark. Being skinny enough to wear that trendy outfit but looking a little awkward because your body isn't shaped quite right. Wanting to share your makeup looks on Instagram but finding it just doesn't look right because your facial features don't measure up. Being good enough for a hookup with a guy you have a crush on, but not good enough to date. People getting mad at you for being unhappy with your looks because they don't get why someone as perfectly okay looking as you might not be happy with themselves. It's people pointing out little flaws in your appearance like it's their right. Acting like you're vain for wanting surgery to fix those flaws. Don't get me wrong I'm grateful for what I have, but it also sucks.
Wow we are soul sisters...your words just described me perfectly..always felt pretty vain for obsessing in ways but you are right its hard when youre juuusst missing the mark as you said..oh well..just like you I'm grateful and blessed in so many other ways
This is only true to a certain point where you can actually avoid the people who think badly of your because of your looks. The fact is, we live in a society and we all need to interact with other whether we want to or not, and whether you like it or not, the way other perceive us will affect how much they're willing to do for us, so looks do affect our lives every day, in things such as whether someone will help you when you're in trouble, whether you can get a discount at a shop, whether you do or don't get selected for a job, it always matters.
Excellent post