“We Don’t Owe Her A Family”: Woman Is Rejected After Inviting Herself To Fiancé’s Family Trip
Adjusting to the family dynamics of your partner is a challenge for many. Some families are boisterous and fun, while others are more subdued and respectful. Some will welcome you with their arms wide open, showing seemingly infinite enthusiasm for you being there. Others prefer to take it a little slower, trying to get to know you better so you know their love and respect is merited. And, as long as they are not mean-spirited, all of the approaches are valid. However, that doesn’t make it easier to navigate them.
The woman in the following story seems to have misread the family of her fiancé. The user @fsinlaw turned to the r/AITA community complaining about the boundaries she’s been crossing and how difficult it’s been for the family to deal with it. But have they been open and accepting enough of her situation? Scroll down to read the full story and what therapist Joshua Terhune had to say about it.
Everyone knows—dealing with in-laws can be tricky. The balance one has to strike between closeness and respect is challenging at best
Image credits: Askar Abayev (not the actual photo)
The woman from this story seems to have been too eager to become a part of her fiancé’s family. Or was the family too dismissive of her needs? You can be the judge
Image credits: Liza Summer (not the actual photo)
Image credits: drazenphoto (not the actual photo)
Image source: fsinlaw
Bored Panda talked to licensed therapist Joshua Terhune, who specializes in trauma, parenting, and ADHD, to get his perspective on the situation. He noted that he sees everyone’s point of view. According to him, it’s important to interpret everyone’s behavior with grace. “The stepsister is open to having a close relationship with Jenny, but that trust needs to be built over an extended period of time. Jenny has never had a family who genuinely loved her and cared about her. Now that she’s close to having one, she wants to rush the process and make up for lost time. And Nico doesn’t want to hurt his fiancée’s feelings and wants everyone to get along during this emotional time.”
That’s why it’s not really a surprise that the commentator’s opinions were mostly split about this story. Some thought that the boundaries that the family has are not unreasonable. They simply take it slow when it comes to communicating with new people. Others defended the fiancée, who obviously has been through a lot. Maybe, as someone who’s not had a close family before, she assumed the bond will be instant and natural. Maybe, the fact that the family was not instantly gushing about her presence made her feel unwanted and even rejected.
Redditors also pointed out that the brother of the OP could have done a better job talking to his fiancée. “Nico said he would handle it and it seems like he hasn’t,” Terhune agreed. “Since he has a much closer relationship with Jenny, it’s his responsibility to provide appropriate expectations and boundaries for interacting with his family.”
“It sounds like this situation was ultimately inevitable because Jenny needed to know with 1000% certainty how her family truly felt about her,” says Terhune. He explains that people that grow up in foster care believe that words don’t matter because people always break their promises. That is why Jenny kept seeking verifiable proof that this is it, this is her family and they won’t let her down. “She desperately needed their words and actions to line up with one another and communicated this in the best way she knew how.”
It’s important to approach this situation with kindness and give Jenny lots of grace
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So, how should the family manage it? According to Terhune, “By setting limits and tolerating emotional intensity.” He says that one can be firm and kind at the same time. Once you understand that Jenny’s responses are related to her trauma, it should be easier not to take it personally.
According to the therapist, what OP said to the fiancée was, indeed, unnecessarily hurtful. “It’s important for the stepsister take responsibility for HER behaviors. She could’ve chosen many different ways to handle this before hurting Jenny’s feelings.” He also urges the family to be gentle but firm with their boundaries.
Terhune also points out that Jenny has quite a bit of work to do to get through this trauma. “First and foremost, she needs to develop the awareness of the impact she’s having on others.” Then, she’ll have to start working on finding her inner peace. Terhune lists learning about her triggers, learning how to shrink the critical voice in her head that convinces her that she is damaged and unlovable, and grieving for her inner child. She’ll also have to start managing abandonment despair and dissociation and forgiving herself for all the ways she has hurt others in her quest to get her emotional needs met. “And finally, developing a way to identify emotionally mature people in her life in order to develop healthy relationships with them.”
When it comes down to it, it’s all about managing boundaries and attachment styles
Image credits: Charlein Gracia (not the actual photo)
Boundaries is something we learn as we’re growing up. We use the examples we see around us as a base for what healthy boundaries look like. That is why people who had dysfunctional relationships as children often struggle to set and adhere to them. The same could apply to people like the OP’s brother’s fiancée, who grew up in foster care. She might have not had a good model for boundaries as a kid so she struggles with them as an adult.
Terhune also points out that growing up in foster care can really impact the ability to develop secure attachments. We learn them from our caregivers and they are the blueprints for all our future relationships. “If your parents were able to provide the love, support, and skills when you were little, you will begin to internalize those skills as you get older. However, if they were inconsistent, Jenny may not have developed the necessary trust that others will be able to help her when she needs it. So, she often relies on being clingy or controlling and may feel over-responsible for the well-being of others.”
All in all, the fact that the OP posted the story on Reddit seems like she is taking her time to reflect on the situation. Hopefully, she and her family as well as her brother and his fiancée navigate this with kindness and grace. This comes off as a misunderstanding they can work through and continue living as a happy family.
A lot of redditors had many questions for the OP. She clarified the situation further in the comments
Jenny has been traumatized throughout her life. That's what foster care in the US means. She very likely has attachment disorder, which can cause a person to either never trust anyone, or like me, trust everyone until you finally learn. (I was not in foster care, but suffered abuse and neglect, with attachment disorder and ptsd.) The commenter above in the article who understands said it way better than I could. Jenny will learn, but is very sensitive and raw. She doesn't share herself because she's petrified you won't accept her because of it. Even as a past middle age adult, when people find out my abusive parents didn't want me, I get negative judgement more often than not. So many people just refuse to believe it's possible, especially around holidays, and accuse you of lies. As a person raw from rejection, it can make you run toward any bit of acceptance. Yes, it's sad, but it's at least genuine.
What a horrible bunch of people. I hope fiancé realizes that she may be awkward but marrying into a family means they become your family. Terrible people.
I agree, there is something very disingenuous about the way this post is written, a whole lot of justification about not accepting her as family for very lame and flacid reasons, feels like gaslighting. She isn't suddenly trying to be family, it has been 2 years, when is it deemed enough time to accept her, foibles, warts and all just like everyone has? The brother is planning an entire life with her, she can't be tip toeing around his families self agrandising rules about when is enough time for her to be accepted.
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I think Nico is to blame the most in this situation, he knew his family were finding Jenny a bit too full on and didn't do enough about it. Op's comment was pretty mean but by the sounds of it, resentment was building up and it only took one more push from Jenny for someone to snap back. The suggestion that OP takes Jenny out for a coffee and a gentle discussion on neutral ground is a good one. If Nico really wants his relationship with Jenny to work and to still be part of his family, then he should encourage the coffee date. An apology from OP is a good place to start things off as it shows her desire to still want them to be part of the family.
Yup. Jenny is crossing boundaries, the family is frustrated to hell and it all circles back to Nico not sitting her down and having a chat or allowing the family to sit her down to have a chat. Like Jennifer said above Jenny probably has some kind of attachment disorder, and that's not going to resolve itself instantly, but being frank with her might help make progress.
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I love all the NTA people. OP is comparing her situation to Jenny's. Not the same people, not the same situation. Maybe it's just me, but I would accept the fact that Nico loves her and try to help her learn how to be in a family. She seems to be in a desperate rush for something she hasn't had... also, what with (step) sibling? My brothers and sister aren't (half) siblings, they are just plain old siblings...
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OP wants to build a connection and complains that Jenny doesn't want a deeper connection. Yet, Jenny doing normal things like participating in conversations and asking OP to be her maid of honour is over stepping boundaries? Who really has issues here?
I don't think that that is what she's saying. What she's saying is she'd like to build a relationship but Jenny is just assuming they have a deep connection because she is marrying the brother. That's not how relationships and connections work with other people. It's not normal after meeting your SIL only twice to ask her to share her sex life because they're "sisters now." That is unhinged. I think everyone's getting it twisted because she was a foster child. You can feel for her past situation but that doesn't excuse every boundary and line she's crossed multiple times. Even when people ask her to stop.
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YTA. This woman grew up in the foster system. She has clearly had a very difficult childhood and clearly struggles with attachment disorder and boundaries - extremely common and unsurprising given her experiences. She clearly desperately wants to create that connection and it does not sound like she has been met with empathy and understanding - just judgement and criticism.
This woman's upbringing was traumatic, yes, but as an adult, it is our responsibility to address and work through issues that are affecting other people. I've had to do this myself. This family sounds like they have absolutely been accommodating and empathetic, but that only goes so far when someone keeps trying to push past your boundaries. OP stated that they absolutely DO want to have a relationship with this woman, but they want that to develop in a healthy pace, something this woman seems incapable of doing. People have to respect each other's boundaries in order to have healthy relationships.
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I don't think anyone here understands how foster families tend to work. When you get to a new house, that family basically tells you the other fosters are your "brothers and sisters now" and says things like "Go help your little sister". (Many places are also "group homes" not mom, dad, and some kids.) Jenny probably thinks that's how it's *supposed* to work when you end up in a new home. (And in foster care, often does, since the kids don't really have anyone but each other.) In foster care, there's also the pressure to get on good terms quick with everyone - because if you don't, things are going to be miserable. You have to curry favor and get other kids to like you real quick. And the "family" changes too often, too fast, to wait around letting things "happen naturally". Do that, and you'll have no support system at all, because by the time you "make friends naturally", that friend might be in another foster home. (Or you might.) CONT.
All that Jenny is doing here is typical foster raised behavior. "That's not normal..." She wasn't raised normally. She was raised in an environment where *everything* was uncertain and boundaries were a thing no one allowed you to have. No one asks foster kids what they want, what their limits are, etc. - you're *told* what's going to happen to you. You're not even allowed to have privacy most of the time, and are asked to share even the most personal things by social workers and foster parents alike. She doesn't understand boundaries or how families normally work? How *could* she? She's never seen it done.
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Gawd, you all make me sick. Can no one see how hard she’s trying, and the family isn’t embracing at all. Good effing grief.
jenny sounds a lot like me. im not a foster kid, but i grew up with a parent who didnt want me and abused me and neglected me. which led to me forming very unhealthy and often abusive relationships and attachments with others. it took decades to undo all that harm. im glad my own kids have a stable and loving home to call their own, but i admit i still find myself forming attachments too quick and have to remind myself that these things take time, if they even happen at all
Load More Replies... I hope poor Jenny could find a family that would actually love and accept her rather than build glass walls so she can see a family but not be a part of the family.
I would be so supportive of my brother's wife. Why? Because i love my brother and she doesn't sound like a bad person. Asks about sex life? "No thanks i don't want to hear about sex with my brother." Be blunt but not rude. Sounds like they just keep glaring at her and talking behind her back. Sounds like they just don't talk to her. Catty middle school behaviour
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I have a very close friend who’s step daughter came to live with them a year ago, coming from her mom who was, at the best of times, neglectful. She is very clingy, when she comes to my house she will snuggle up with me, touch my hair, stroke my fingers, just needing physical closeness. It is heartbreaking for me to think of this sweet girl needing so much physical confirmation that someone is there for her. For everyone saying ‘she’s an adult, she should….’ If you have not experienced the level of neglect and who even knows what else Jenny has gone through, it is ingrained in every part of her and that doesn’t go away overnight. They need family counseling so that they all have a safe space to communicate and establish boundaries on both sides. Nico’s family isn’t wrong to feel the way they do, but they need to go about this differently. It is obviously not as simple as talking to Jenny, even if Nico had done that it wouldn’t have solved things for anyone.
Very much NTA. My family has someone like this, too. She had a very difficult and stifling upbringing. My family has always tried to welcome her and make her feel comfortable because she was a friend of a family member, but she assumes too much. She insinuates herself in family business that does not concern nor pertain to her. No one asks her opinion or even tries to get her involved but that doesn't stop her. She has taken to calling my grandmother "mom" even though my grandmother does not like it. She has done this same over-stepping with other people but refuses to back down, even when asked. You can feel empathy for someone and try to understand what shaped them but that doesn't excuse everything they do. If they are making you uncomfortable and they are refusing to stop making you uncomfortable, why is that okay just because they had a rough childhood?
You people do not like this woman and have no intention of letting her into your family. She doesn’t have the skill set to slowly make friends. She has an idealized idea of what family is. With every attempt to connect with any of you, she gets pushed away. Phrasing all of this to take away from the fact that you are just cruel narcissists, doesn’t change anything. I wonder why your brother didn’t want you all “talking” to her - look at what you did and how everyone else is OK with how she is treated. The comment that your words pushed her back mentally, tells me she was working on her insecurities and people she thought would be family agree she isn’t good enough. I hope you brother loves and respects her enough to cut ties and prove to her that they are a family of two
Op is definitely the AH maybe Nico could have handled it better but the OP definitely sucks
Seems like the OP will only be happy if Nico and Jenny cave to give the family the power of the upper hand to form the relationship THEY want with her, which is one where Jenny is held at arm's length. I think Nico *did* talk to Jenny, but the conversation was probably one where he likes how Jenny is (hence why he wants to marry her) and encourages her to be herself. If the family not accepting her keeps him at low contact, good for him. He picked his future wife's feelings over theirs, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who wishes they had landed a standup guy like that.
YTA for what you said, but NAH for the dynamics. Jenny grew up without a family, and probably without much in the way of stability. She doesn't know how to be part of a family. She has also probably dreamed of a family and has a perfect family fantasy in her mind. Now that she has a family, she is trying to make it all be as perfect as she imagined it would be. This is really common among foster kids, and there's tons of research on it. The way OP feels is also perfectly understandable. It's normal and reasonable for people in a family to want one-on-one time with another person in the family. That's one of the ways we build and maintain good relationships. It's perfectly reasonable to be irritated at having someone invite themselves along on what was supposed to be a mother-daughter event. With that said, what OP said was very, very not okay, and OP owes Jenny and Nico both an apology. I would hope that OP would also be willing to do some listening and learning.
I wonder how long will it take to "build" a relationship with this family? Isn't two years kind of enough to accept and love someone? I feel sorry for poor Jenny, she's got so much love to give!
This could have been dealt with much more humanely at least. You tore down an abused (I consider the fact of foster care abuse in itself) girl for no reason other than a lack of patience; you can't possibly say you didn't know exactly how she would react. Now that she's in a relationship/family that she got to pick for herself, that relationship/family shuns her for wanting it, whether or not she knew (and she didn't) how to deal with this new situation. YTA.
OP is TA. Yeah, Jenny's intense, Nico's kind of spineless, and everybody kinda sucks, but OP crossed a major line with her comment.
I’ve run into someone like Jenny before. She wants to be liked so much so she pushes forward which causes you to withdraw which causes her to push forward more and you to withdraw more. It’s an unfortunate dance that you need to speak to her about. You, not your stepbrother. Apologize for being unkind but be clear that the pushing makes you withdraw and that won’t change.
Some of you are as unhinged as the Future SIL and are seriously projecting. Having a traumatic childhood does not mean she can continuously disrespect others boundaries. She is entitled to being treated fairly with respect. She is not entitled to any sort of familial relationship with her inlaws. My sister's ex is simply family now. He grew up in an out of foster care with an addict grandmother who lied to him for years about being his birth mom. Then she lied and said his mom died.
So everyone who disagrees with you and OP is unhinged? Now that's definitely mature.
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My SIL is like this, she has her own family, but it's essentially a power play inserting herself in our family. Contacting relatives that we don't spend time with, without find out why. Trying to change the dynamics. She's controlling in other ways and no one apart from my brother can stand her. It is definitely Nico's responsibilitiy to reign her in, but clearly that won't happen. I wish I had good advice apart from keep making boundaries clear, but it's ruined my relationship with my brother. I just avoid them. It got worse at engagement and is unbearable since they had kids. We are all just hoping for divorce.
Why is everyone dumping on the OP? This girl is pushy and it's pissing people off. No, someone I barely know, I am not your "sister" just because you're marrying into the family. No, I am not obligated to invite you on all family trips, nor are we obligated to include you in all family photos (spent a small fortune on wedding photos including my sister's fiancee. They broke up 2 months after the wedding). Relationships take time & I don't blame her for feeling this way at all. Um, asking about your sex life? WTF? Who does that? I don't discuss my sex life with the people I am blood related to. NTA.
Nico is TA. He’s done this before with another girlfriend They have asked her repeatedly to cool her jets. She needs therapy. Y’all might consider a one time professional mediator so everyone can have their say within professional boundaries. It shows the family is trying and if Nico and Jenny balk it’s on them. Nico is out of bounds Jenny is out of bounds Most all of us have had childhood traumas. Again Jenny needs therapy to learn boundaries from a professional.
If i were nico, id go no contact over this. Jenny is a part of the family, whether they like it or not. Thats how engagements work.
seems like OP just has a different way of approaching people. some are more standoffish than others. maybe Jenny is just a real sociable person and their family isnt that way. OP mentions Jenny was messaging cousins and other family they havent spoken to in years, so clearly they arent close knit, at least not overly so. i agree they do not owe jenny the family she never got, but if they had nipped this in the bud from the beginning instead of relying on the son to be the go-between, they could have avoided all of this
I'm still confused why OP isn't allowed to feel the way she does? Why can she not have a photo of just her and her siblings? I completely get involving a new family member. But there are also boundaries that cannot be crossed immediately with some. This is an example of know your place. And if you don't- as she didn't- the brother/fiancé should have had a talk with her. It should have been him explaining thst while her motives and actions are lovely- each person needs to accept her 100% on their own time. I'm an only child. I married into a family that welcomed everyone and even divorce did not break the friendships made within. Not all families are like this. OP could've chosen her words better. Or even taken her aside w her brother and said- we need to talk about some things... but no one is really an a*****e here.
I don't get this hate towards OP's family. They want to have a connection with her just as they have a good connection with all the other partners. It's very clear that Jenny has trouble recognizing other person's boundaries and respecting them, which puts off the other person. To me it feels as if she jumped in "feet first" into the family instead of easing her way in which, given the personalities of the family she wants to be part of, seems the better way. What struck me was that Jenny, if not in the family circle, is a pretty cool person. I think she should explore why she is so different in family setting in therapy of some kind rather than have the family bend backwards to accommodate her, because that won't address the real issue. I'm guessing that the real issue does have to do with her foster care and addressing that will benefit her throughout her life.
I do get OP, I don't think she is an AH, just wish she hadn't said what she said.I would have just thrown the ball to Nico, something like "tell that to Nico and he will talk to us about that". I'm an introvert and I feel really uncomfortable when people I don't trust are asking me things that are private to me or are intrusive. La confianza se gana no se regala.
100% you are the a*****e. I hope your brother never speaks to you or anyone in your miserable family ever again.
OP’s use of the word “proper” raises the assumption that they’re UK middle class, so the situation has to take That culture’s peculiarities into account.
Jenny has been traumatized throughout her life. That's what foster care in the US means. She very likely has attachment disorder, which can cause a person to either never trust anyone, or like me, trust everyone until you finally learn. (I was not in foster care, but suffered abuse and neglect, with attachment disorder and ptsd.) The commenter above in the article who understands said it way better than I could. Jenny will learn, but is very sensitive and raw. She doesn't share herself because she's petrified you won't accept her because of it. Even as a past middle age adult, when people find out my abusive parents didn't want me, I get negative judgement more often than not. So many people just refuse to believe it's possible, especially around holidays, and accuse you of lies. As a person raw from rejection, it can make you run toward any bit of acceptance. Yes, it's sad, but it's at least genuine.
What a horrible bunch of people. I hope fiancé realizes that she may be awkward but marrying into a family means they become your family. Terrible people.
I agree, there is something very disingenuous about the way this post is written, a whole lot of justification about not accepting her as family for very lame and flacid reasons, feels like gaslighting. She isn't suddenly trying to be family, it has been 2 years, when is it deemed enough time to accept her, foibles, warts and all just like everyone has? The brother is planning an entire life with her, she can't be tip toeing around his families self agrandising rules about when is enough time for her to be accepted.
Load More Replies... I think Nico is to blame the most in this situation, he knew his family were finding Jenny a bit too full on and didn't do enough about it. Op's comment was pretty mean but by the sounds of it, resentment was building up and it only took one more push from Jenny for someone to snap back. The suggestion that OP takes Jenny out for a coffee and a gentle discussion on neutral ground is a good one. If Nico really wants his relationship with Jenny to work and to still be part of his family, then he should encourage the coffee date. An apology from OP is a good place to start things off as it shows her desire to still want them to be part of the family.
Yup. Jenny is crossing boundaries, the family is frustrated to hell and it all circles back to Nico not sitting her down and having a chat or allowing the family to sit her down to have a chat. Like Jennifer said above Jenny probably has some kind of attachment disorder, and that's not going to resolve itself instantly, but being frank with her might help make progress.
Load More Replies... I love all the NTA people. OP is comparing her situation to Jenny's. Not the same people, not the same situation. Maybe it's just me, but I would accept the fact that Nico loves her and try to help her learn how to be in a family. She seems to be in a desperate rush for something she hasn't had... also, what with (step) sibling? My brothers and sister aren't (half) siblings, they are just plain old siblings...
Load More Replies... OP wants to build a connection and complains that Jenny doesn't want a deeper connection. Yet, Jenny doing normal things like participating in conversations and asking OP to be her maid of honour is over stepping boundaries? Who really has issues here?
I don't think that that is what she's saying. What she's saying is she'd like to build a relationship but Jenny is just assuming they have a deep connection because she is marrying the brother. That's not how relationships and connections work with other people. It's not normal after meeting your SIL only twice to ask her to share her sex life because they're "sisters now." That is unhinged. I think everyone's getting it twisted because she was a foster child. You can feel for her past situation but that doesn't excuse every boundary and line she's crossed multiple times. Even when people ask her to stop.
Load More Replies... YTA. This woman grew up in the foster system. She has clearly had a very difficult childhood and clearly struggles with attachment disorder and boundaries - extremely common and unsurprising given her experiences. She clearly desperately wants to create that connection and it does not sound like she has been met with empathy and understanding - just judgement and criticism.
This woman's upbringing was traumatic, yes, but as an adult, it is our responsibility to address and work through issues that are affecting other people. I've had to do this myself. This family sounds like they have absolutely been accommodating and empathetic, but that only goes so far when someone keeps trying to push past your boundaries. OP stated that they absolutely DO want to have a relationship with this woman, but they want that to develop in a healthy pace, something this woman seems incapable of doing. People have to respect each other's boundaries in order to have healthy relationships.
Load More Replies... I don't think anyone here understands how foster families tend to work. When you get to a new house, that family basically tells you the other fosters are your "brothers and sisters now" and says things like "Go help your little sister". (Many places are also "group homes" not mom, dad, and some kids.) Jenny probably thinks that's how it's *supposed* to work when you end up in a new home. (And in foster care, often does, since the kids don't really have anyone but each other.) In foster care, there's also the pressure to get on good terms quick with everyone - because if you don't, things are going to be miserable. You have to curry favor and get other kids to like you real quick. And the "family" changes too often, too fast, to wait around letting things "happen naturally". Do that, and you'll have no support system at all, because by the time you "make friends naturally", that friend might be in another foster home. (Or you might.) CONT.
All that Jenny is doing here is typical foster raised behavior. "That's not normal..." She wasn't raised normally. She was raised in an environment where *everything* was uncertain and boundaries were a thing no one allowed you to have. No one asks foster kids what they want, what their limits are, etc. - you're *told* what's going to happen to you. You're not even allowed to have privacy most of the time, and are asked to share even the most personal things by social workers and foster parents alike. She doesn't understand boundaries or how families normally work? How *could* she? She's never seen it done.
Load More Replies... Gawd, you all make me sick. Can no one see how hard she’s trying, and the family isn’t embracing at all. Good effing grief.
jenny sounds a lot like me. im not a foster kid, but i grew up with a parent who didnt want me and abused me and neglected me. which led to me forming very unhealthy and often abusive relationships and attachments with others. it took decades to undo all that harm. im glad my own kids have a stable and loving home to call their own, but i admit i still find myself forming attachments too quick and have to remind myself that these things take time, if they even happen at all
Load More Replies... I hope poor Jenny could find a family that would actually love and accept her rather than build glass walls so she can see a family but not be a part of the family.
I would be so supportive of my brother's wife. Why? Because i love my brother and she doesn't sound like a bad person. Asks about sex life? "No thanks i don't want to hear about sex with my brother." Be blunt but not rude. Sounds like they just keep glaring at her and talking behind her back. Sounds like they just don't talk to her. Catty middle school behaviour
Load More Replies... I have a very close friend who’s step daughter came to live with them a year ago, coming from her mom who was, at the best of times, neglectful. She is very clingy, when she comes to my house she will snuggle up with me, touch my hair, stroke my fingers, just needing physical closeness. It is heartbreaking for me to think of this sweet girl needing so much physical confirmation that someone is there for her. For everyone saying ‘she’s an adult, she should….’ If you have not experienced the level of neglect and who even knows what else Jenny has gone through, it is ingrained in every part of her and that doesn’t go away overnight. They need family counseling so that they all have a safe space to communicate and establish boundaries on both sides. Nico’s family isn’t wrong to feel the way they do, but they need to go about this differently. It is obviously not as simple as talking to Jenny, even if Nico had done that it wouldn’t have solved things for anyone.
Very much NTA. My family has someone like this, too. She had a very difficult and stifling upbringing. My family has always tried to welcome her and make her feel comfortable because she was a friend of a family member, but she assumes too much. She insinuates herself in family business that does not concern nor pertain to her. No one asks her opinion or even tries to get her involved but that doesn't stop her. She has taken to calling my grandmother "mom" even though my grandmother does not like it. She has done this same over-stepping with other people but refuses to back down, even when asked. You can feel empathy for someone and try to understand what shaped them but that doesn't excuse everything they do. If they are making you uncomfortable and they are refusing to stop making you uncomfortable, why is that okay just because they had a rough childhood?
You people do not like this woman and have no intention of letting her into your family. She doesn’t have the skill set to slowly make friends. She has an idealized idea of what family is. With every attempt to connect with any of you, she gets pushed away. Phrasing all of this to take away from the fact that you are just cruel narcissists, doesn’t change anything. I wonder why your brother didn’t want you all “talking” to her - look at what you did and how everyone else is OK with how she is treated. The comment that your words pushed her back mentally, tells me she was working on her insecurities and people she thought would be family agree she isn’t good enough. I hope you brother loves and respects her enough to cut ties and prove to her that they are a family of two
Op is definitely the AH maybe Nico could have handled it better but the OP definitely sucks
Seems like the OP will only be happy if Nico and Jenny cave to give the family the power of the upper hand to form the relationship THEY want with her, which is one where Jenny is held at arm's length. I think Nico *did* talk to Jenny, but the conversation was probably one where he likes how Jenny is (hence why he wants to marry her) and encourages her to be herself. If the family not accepting her keeps him at low contact, good for him. He picked his future wife's feelings over theirs, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who wishes they had landed a standup guy like that.
YTA for what you said, but NAH for the dynamics. Jenny grew up without a family, and probably without much in the way of stability. She doesn't know how to be part of a family. She has also probably dreamed of a family and has a perfect family fantasy in her mind. Now that she has a family, she is trying to make it all be as perfect as she imagined it would be. This is really common among foster kids, and there's tons of research on it. The way OP feels is also perfectly understandable. It's normal and reasonable for people in a family to want one-on-one time with another person in the family. That's one of the ways we build and maintain good relationships. It's perfectly reasonable to be irritated at having someone invite themselves along on what was supposed to be a mother-daughter event. With that said, what OP said was very, very not okay, and OP owes Jenny and Nico both an apology. I would hope that OP would also be willing to do some listening and learning.
I wonder how long will it take to "build" a relationship with this family? Isn't two years kind of enough to accept and love someone? I feel sorry for poor Jenny, she's got so much love to give!
This could have been dealt with much more humanely at least. You tore down an abused (I consider the fact of foster care abuse in itself) girl for no reason other than a lack of patience; you can't possibly say you didn't know exactly how she would react. Now that she's in a relationship/family that she got to pick for herself, that relationship/family shuns her for wanting it, whether or not she knew (and she didn't) how to deal with this new situation. YTA.
OP is TA. Yeah, Jenny's intense, Nico's kind of spineless, and everybody kinda sucks, but OP crossed a major line with her comment.
I’ve run into someone like Jenny before. She wants to be liked so much so she pushes forward which causes you to withdraw which causes her to push forward more and you to withdraw more. It’s an unfortunate dance that you need to speak to her about. You, not your stepbrother. Apologize for being unkind but be clear that the pushing makes you withdraw and that won’t change.
Some of you are as unhinged as the Future SIL and are seriously projecting. Having a traumatic childhood does not mean she can continuously disrespect others boundaries. She is entitled to being treated fairly with respect. She is not entitled to any sort of familial relationship with her inlaws. My sister's ex is simply family now. He grew up in an out of foster care with an addict grandmother who lied to him for years about being his birth mom. Then she lied and said his mom died.
So everyone who disagrees with you and OP is unhinged? Now that's definitely mature.
Load More Replies... My SIL is like this, she has her own family, but it's essentially a power play inserting herself in our family. Contacting relatives that we don't spend time with, without find out why. Trying to change the dynamics. She's controlling in other ways and no one apart from my brother can stand her. It is definitely Nico's responsibilitiy to reign her in, but clearly that won't happen. I wish I had good advice apart from keep making boundaries clear, but it's ruined my relationship with my brother. I just avoid them. It got worse at engagement and is unbearable since they had kids. We are all just hoping for divorce.
Why is everyone dumping on the OP? This girl is pushy and it's pissing people off. No, someone I barely know, I am not your "sister" just because you're marrying into the family. No, I am not obligated to invite you on all family trips, nor are we obligated to include you in all family photos (spent a small fortune on wedding photos including my sister's fiancee. They broke up 2 months after the wedding). Relationships take time & I don't blame her for feeling this way at all. Um, asking about your sex life? WTF? Who does that? I don't discuss my sex life with the people I am blood related to. NTA.
Nico is TA. He’s done this before with another girlfriend They have asked her repeatedly to cool her jets. She needs therapy. Y’all might consider a one time professional mediator so everyone can have their say within professional boundaries. It shows the family is trying and if Nico and Jenny balk it’s on them. Nico is out of bounds Jenny is out of bounds Most all of us have had childhood traumas. Again Jenny needs therapy to learn boundaries from a professional.
If i were nico, id go no contact over this. Jenny is a part of the family, whether they like it or not. Thats how engagements work.
seems like OP just has a different way of approaching people. some are more standoffish than others. maybe Jenny is just a real sociable person and their family isnt that way. OP mentions Jenny was messaging cousins and other family they havent spoken to in years, so clearly they arent close knit, at least not overly so. i agree they do not owe jenny the family she never got, but if they had nipped this in the bud from the beginning instead of relying on the son to be the go-between, they could have avoided all of this
I'm still confused why OP isn't allowed to feel the way she does? Why can she not have a photo of just her and her siblings? I completely get involving a new family member. But there are also boundaries that cannot be crossed immediately with some. This is an example of know your place. And if you don't- as she didn't- the brother/fiancé should have had a talk with her. It should have been him explaining thst while her motives and actions are lovely- each person needs to accept her 100% on their own time. I'm an only child. I married into a family that welcomed everyone and even divorce did not break the friendships made within. Not all families are like this. OP could've chosen her words better. Or even taken her aside w her brother and said- we need to talk about some things... but no one is really an a*****e here.
I don't get this hate towards OP's family. They want to have a connection with her just as they have a good connection with all the other partners. It's very clear that Jenny has trouble recognizing other person's boundaries and respecting them, which puts off the other person. To me it feels as if she jumped in "feet first" into the family instead of easing her way in which, given the personalities of the family she wants to be part of, seems the better way. What struck me was that Jenny, if not in the family circle, is a pretty cool person. I think she should explore why she is so different in family setting in therapy of some kind rather than have the family bend backwards to accommodate her, because that won't address the real issue. I'm guessing that the real issue does have to do with her foster care and addressing that will benefit her throughout her life.
I do get OP, I don't think she is an AH, just wish she hadn't said what she said.I would have just thrown the ball to Nico, something like "tell that to Nico and he will talk to us about that". I'm an introvert and I feel really uncomfortable when people I don't trust are asking me things that are private to me or are intrusive. La confianza se gana no se regala.
100% you are the a*****e. I hope your brother never speaks to you or anyone in your miserable family ever again.
OP’s use of the word “proper” raises the assumption that they’re UK middle class, so the situation has to take That culture’s peculiarities into account.
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