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This Programmer Was Asked To Do ~40 Hours Work For Free, And His Brilliant Response Goes Viral
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This Programmer Was Asked To Do ~40 Hours Work For Free, And His Brilliant Response Goes Viral

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Remember when we wrote about how people just assume that artists should work for exposure? Well, turns out some people assume the same about programmers.

Recently, Zach Zundel was asked to do coding/backend work for free and he was not happy about it. “Lmao sorry friendaloo but if you want me to write you a couple thousand lines of code you get to profit from forever it’s gonna cost you,” Zach tweeted. In fact, not only was he asked to do ~40 hours of work for free, but the person asking for his work got angry when Zach didn’t agree! Zach posted his conversation on Twitter and it has gone viral since, with over 15k retweets and 48k likes. Check it out below!

More info: Twitter

This programmer just got an interesting request to develop an app:

He posted the conversation on Twitter where it’s since been retweeted almost 16k times and liked by 48k people

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However, the person who tried to get a programmer work for free was clearly not impressed by the exposure

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Most people were quick to praise the programmer

What do you think about this situation? Comment below!

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dariab_1 avatar
Daria B
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

The way the customer takes the programmer's refusal to work for free reminds me of those a-holes who can't accept refusal from a potential love interest.

csgerlach avatar
Creedence Gerlach
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Precisely. Guy: Show me your tits. Girl: No. Guy: F**k you you ugly b***h go to the gym if you hate yourself so much. Girl: ???

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jlk103144 avatar
John L
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

What people today, especially the "I'm entitled" crowd, fail to realize is that the concept of "Supply and Demand" is based on a two way process where goods and services, "Of Equal Value" are Willingly exchanged between the two parties. Many think they are "entitled" to get something for nothing. That's not the way the universe works. :O

kenroberts avatar
Imma Letchofinish
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I work in design and marketing and used to get this stuff all the time. The last time I got this kind of 'work for the exposure' I would say 'Ok, but I need to see your business plan, market research and be a part of any company decisions since my work is now part of your business. We should also discuss all of our compensation when this does go big. When it does, we should all be made rich since we're working on it for nothing.' The guy never called me back...funny how that happened....

jerry-mathers-73 avatar
Jerry Mathers
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

What the customer is really saying: I have an idea (That's the hard part, my work is done) Can you make the program do x (Is it possible?) For exposure (I'll tell everyone I know a sucker that works for free) or If it gets big (Not sure if it will work and don't want to pay to find out. Also I need someone to blame if it fails), Then we can talk stock options (like giving you the option to buy my stock). It's your chance to get in on the ground floor (without you, there's no business). It's a chance of a lifetime (my chance, my lifetime). You'll be sorry you missed out (on giving up 40+ hours of your life to make me rich, maybe). Okay, but don't steal my idea (that isn't worth paying to develop) or I'll sue you (I don't have money to pay you, but I have a huge slush fund to pay a lawyer).

bobbinewell avatar
Bobbi Newell
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

That customer started off as a slimeball and went downhill from there. The second he used foul language, he lost any power he had. We all know who the REAL professional is in this exchange!

grace-morffin avatar
M. M
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

My dad is a photographer and will sometimes massively reduce his prices for those who obviously can not afford him but have a good idea/cause. Other than that, no one works for free.

rgjimenez787 avatar
Rebecca Jimenez
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

And that's reasonable. If someone can't afford services, it's fine to see if a better payment plan can be placed or a discount/rate reduction. But to ask for free work (especially if it's going to make the client money rather than be for a good/selfless cause) is a slap in the face.

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shanake_ avatar
Shana
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Exposure doesn't pay bills and doesn't bring food to the table.

lou_delue avatar
Zenozenobee
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Yeap, I wonder if he tried the "exposure" stuff on his house builder, the guy he bought his car to, his tour operator, his grocer... Some people really need to understand that the stupid one is not the one refusing to work for free.

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jeandraper68 avatar
Jean Draper
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Musicians live with this constantly. "Come do a showcase!" "Do this one show for exposure and I'll book you better gigs." "Work for the jar at the front door." Problem is, some are so desperate, they accept and thereby devalue us all and make it harder for everyone, including themselves to be compensated appropriately.

jeannamagary avatar
Jeanna
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

same with designers, devaluing us all so that people won't pay for good design

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captainzones avatar
The Cappy
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I wonder if that mystery guy works for free too (for the exposure)... or if that's just for *other* people.

ehsan0920 avatar
Ehsan Es
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I think clients think of designers like product in supermarkets; "when is the sale?" "How can I get out of this cheaply?" "I'll just try it out and return." Recently I made a logo desing for an investment company website, he went silent after receiving the design, looked at his website and it's there, the logo I made, proudly put big on front page. The big irony here is, he deals basically in money and can't make himself to pay 69 usd for a professional logo desing. Blah

craigwright avatar
Craig Wright
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Resend their invoice again one last time by recorded mail so they have to sign for it. Give them 30 days. Warn them at 31 days. Warn at 60.

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binanda_smada avatar
Usernameofgag
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I know a lot people like this. They always make me fool when I bought a program or design. They told me "are you stupid, you can pirate it". And I will answer "yes, i'm capable to do pirating, but i respect the people behind this masterpiece. Could you make a same program like this? If you could, you should use yours. And if you couldn't, you should try to make one. "

cbtclips avatar
Justin Thymes
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Yep. That "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" approach to life.

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mike_60 avatar
Michael Allan
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I do SEO and recently one of my old clients came back asking me to update his site. I ran an audit and gave him my estimate - 48 hours. Since I worked with this guy almost 10 years ago I've raised my rates. Back then I charged him $25, now I charge $75-90. He asked if for old time sake I would give him the old rate, so I said sure. Then he said, "And store credit is OK?". Uh no. I don't need $1800 store credit with a laptop repair shop! He got all indignant like the customer in this story. Needless to say I'm NOT helping him.

iapetosdertitan avatar
Iapetos
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

"Sorry, I need to eat! Good luck out there!" Clearly best response. Work is always going to cost money, I really don't comprehend some people.

honeywoodfarm avatar
Bobbi Spence
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Kudos to Zach for keeping his responses civil...unlike the guy trying to get something for nothing. More people need to realize that responding to nastiness with more nastiness just breeds more hatred. The last thing this world needs.

kangaroekim avatar
Kim de Beer
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I cant just imagine you talk nasty to someone you need something from... but on the other hand. you know exactly what you are dealing with, instead of the sweet talkers (but behind your back)

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lizaitebalise avatar
Elizabeth Gross
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Please please PLEASE charge more than $15/hr for your development work. Undercutting the market like that just hurts everybody long-term.

dotcartman_1 avatar
Diane Serpa
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I try not to tell people what to charge because they might live somewhere cheaper than I do. or more expensive. Telling people in NYC to charge what I charge would not pay for dinner let alone rent. Telling someone in a rural area to charge $200/hour makes even less sense if their clients are all local. If you can get it, great.

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thomash_ avatar
Thomas H.
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I've had similar experiences. I'm an electrician and I've had people ask me to do jobs in their homes and offer to pay me for the materials I had to use, but not for the labour. If my expertise is not valued, then do the job yourself and let me know how long it take the fire department to respond to the call.

em_1 avatar
Martina Třešková
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

The customer is clearly r******d, he can't even write properly (let alone that his way is completely unprofessional) and he generaly doesn't have a clue. What an ego to speak to a pro who can do something you clearly can't like this.

dmills2 avatar
David Mills
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

"exposure" is today's equivalent of the carrot on a stick...you'd have to be an a*s to fall for it

virgilblue avatar
Virgil Blue
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

So familiar. I once had a guy do the exposure spiel for a website to me when I was still green. But after showing him the first mock ups he wasxoffended that I put a "created by" credit on the pages and demanded I remove them. I told him to go find some other fool after getting treated like that.

scottlin avatar
Scott Linklater
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

So they wanted to pay you in exposure but then spat the dummy when you attempted to put in place one of the things that would get you exposure......riiiiiighteo then! That, makes perfectly no sense whatsoever! LOL

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sebastiankorsch avatar
Sebastian Korsch
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

some people think if you are freelance artist, coder, admin... you do this for fun, on weekends and for free instead for making a living

luyendao avatar
Lu
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

First mistake was to set a rate of $15 / hour. Right off the bat the so called client thought this guy was worth peanuts, and de-valued him before the conversation even starts. If you're just starting out as a web coder, $50/hour should be the starting price to weed out people who would take advantage of you.

giorgioprodoti avatar
jlk103144 avatar
John L
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Yeah, maybe the irate fellow would be willing to perform that as part of the payment? :D

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artcat742 avatar
Kori K. Warriner
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Gawd. As a photographer and graphic design graduate, this has happened. On the flip side, though, so has "Really, only $##? Wow! You need to charge more! Thank you!"

octarin avatar
Margie Lazou
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Bottom line is: good thing he didn't accept the job, cause that cheapass douche wouldn't have paid him after.

beerhere2010 avatar
Ken Tucker
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

a) 'Don't ask, don't get.' - but - b) you get what you pay for - and - someone stupid enough to work for nothing is likely to be worth what you (don't) pay them #justsaying

incognitushumanum avatar
Jeanne Deaux
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

This customer must come from DeviantArt. This site is full of people wanting work done for free.

susan_19 avatar
Susan Allen
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

This happens in every industry - as a Virtual Assistant, I was constantly hit by requests for "mock-ups" or "samples" of work - for free. No - that's not how it works, my friend. Do you go to a store, tell the clerk you're not going to pay for the dress you're taking out of the store with you - because you just want to sample it for a few hours? Will a restaurant allow you to come in and graze at the buffet, taking little bits of this and that, and leave without paying, because you just wanted to try it out?

michaelatwsu avatar
Michael Gary
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I have frequently quit jobs when the scope creep escalates to me putting in hours for free. Sorry, my time and my life are precious. If you want quality results, don't expect anything for free. You get what you pay for.

denisemelek_toygar avatar
Denise Melek
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Yeah, his business is suuuure going to blow up, as its such a big "opporunitu".

blaasdf2 avatar
Hugo Raible
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Not sure about their place of residence, but here he'd easily be able to sue a few hundred or thousand bucks out of the other person for the "a*****e" alone. But yeah, 15$/hour sound pretty cheap... I might hire Zach for some project ;)

taryn_wallace_7 avatar
Taryn Wallace
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Kind of wish he had outed the "company" completely just so I could be 100% sure never to go to them. I understand why he didn't do it, still

jilldsumner avatar
Jilltdcatlady
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

So the designer gets stock options if the business takes off. ?? Or he can send his friends over, and they can barter for "free"work. And what if the guy's idea is just bad and not the designer's fault? That's Free Exposure nobody wants.

darinanderson avatar
Darin Anderson
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

The way the customer went from zero to pissy in like 2 lines. Probably dodged a bullet by blowing the customer off. A d**k like this would be nothing but trouble to do any work for. When someone tells you that you need a good lawyer, you can be pretty sure you won't need a good lawyer.

jeannamagary avatar
Jeanna
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

This programmer was lucky to find out upfront that this guy was a jerk. He would have been a nightmare client to work for. (And the programmer should charge more for his work too. $15 is not too much for writing code)

bndiggs avatar
David Baker
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Pretty much every other artist, designer, photographer and musician I know has had multiple coversaions almost exactly like this one....to paraphrase an old maxim, He who can, does, he who cannot attempts to get it done for free.

karen_stauffer avatar
Karen Stauffer
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I have a small shop.Among other things, we sell books. I've had people ask me if I have a copy machine because they don't want to buy the book, just to copy 3 pages from it. I tell them no, I don't, and it would also be a violation of the author's copyright.

lanza130 avatar
Melody Lanzatella
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Just amazing! Programmer handled the situation with restraint AND class! Mr "ground floor opportunity" is gonna stay RIGHT where he belongs! ON THE GROUND FLOOR!

eabloor avatar
Emily Bloor
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I love that he says he will find someone who understands 'busines' yet spells it wrong. haha! What an idiot. This guy handled it superbly

deathmetalkitty avatar
Death Metal Kitty
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

The only people who react with hostility and spite when faced with logic and reason tend to be bullies or come from a background of nurtured a sense of entitled-ness. A dime a dozen.

karljbeyer avatar
Karl Beyer
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

$15/hr? I don't know who I'm more upset with now. The jerk customer or the programmer bringing down the profession to the pay of a fast food clerk.

lee-anngilliam avatar
Lee-Ann Gilliam
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

The cost of living isn't the same in every state, what would be enough to buy a tiny house in CA can get you nearly 2000 sq ft in TX. Also, there aren't any fast food clerks around here that make $15/hr.

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george_smith avatar
George Smith
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I admire him for standing his ground. Only people who are young and insecure will do what he was asking. Rarely do these people help you get more business they usually just take advantage for their benefit. People who truly want you to succeed pay you and pay you well.

lizettewong avatar
thatkeith avatar
Keith Martin
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Not sure how someone's supposed to survive on $15/h as a freelance rate, given that typically only 50% of a freelancer's working time in a year is chargeable. It should be *at least* double. But yeah, it's still $15/h better than 'exposure.'

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skydivegaming avatar
SkyDive Gaming
Community Member
5 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

the people who say bull s**t like do it for exposure is a******s who does not know how to do the job them selves and that does not make any money so they should get a real job rather than trying to get free s**t its basicly the web's version of gold diggers...

edward_kimble avatar
Edward Kimble
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Customer knew the costs going in. And know, in a contract situation, such conversations are almost always recorded and published one way or another for protection. Been in a similar situation... to convert a printer plotter program to long integers so that a bigger bed size could be accommodated. The original code did not belong to the client and while the original programmer didn't want the job, the negotiated price was pitiful. Lots of cussing, threats, nastigrams. Two months later I wrote a 5k$ program for a subsidiary company of the same client, for about $20/hour, no problems. And the program worked like a champ.

carol-a-stephen1 avatar
Carol Stephen
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

As a writer and a poet, very familiar with the expectation that one's work comes free. For the exposure, of course!

lnz_a avatar
laney jane
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

My boyfriend is in IT and is CONSTANTLY being asked by 'friends' aka 'freeloaders' if he can just 'take a quick look at their computer' for free of course. He's a nice guy so he always says yes, but I'm not as nice, so I bought him this shirt. http://amzn.to/2u4NMNV computer-5...ec-png.jpg computer-59618885c18ec-png.jpg

kirathesloth avatar
Kira Thesloth
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I know next to nothing about programming & I still knew this guy was getting a heck of a deal. $15 an hour sounds darn near exposure rate to me, the guy could be charging way more. The rude guy's identity & ideas seem well protected by the programmer too which makes it even sillier that he threatened to sue.

lizmolloy1969 avatar
Elizabeth Molloy
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

With an attitude like that, his 'business' is going nowhere! You gotta spend money to make money. Asshat.

cherieterblache avatar
Cherié Terblanche
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

This really irks me as well. It's as if people just expect you to do stuff for free because "it's your hobby and your job and you love doing it so it won't feel like work, it will be like a nice relaxing breakaway for you". F**k you. Yes, I draw to escape sometimes, but that's different to drawing forced stuff for someone else. The nerve of people who get all offended when they ask you to do something and you say "okay, that will be $$so-and-so". All shocked like they didn't even consider it might be an inconvenience to you to go out of your way to create something for them. Gosh.

koconnor avatar
Kevin OConnor
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Be careful whom you try to screw over on the way to the top... You may just meet them again on the way to the bottom.

tiny3179 avatar
Beau Beau Permaul
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

This is what's wrong with Society today! Everyone wants something for free!

ssllaasskk avatar
Mats Svensson
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Nice... You type in a comment, click post ...and THEN you are told to register? And after you get shot-gun registered, the comment is thrown away anyway? Real F nice! And low-contrast design, in 2017?

ssllaasskk avatar
Mats Svensson
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I wonder what the project was. Probably "like youtube, but for clothes", or similar. Ohhh, think of all that exposure!

ges2 avatar
Gary Schoenfeldt
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Any half competent IT company would charge at least $200 an hour, if not more and that includes the time spent in the initial consultation, which this analyst provided for free. The only thing that needs 'exposure' are freeloaders trying to pass themselves off as businessmen.

chris_65 avatar
Christopher Ambler
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I'll leave this here... http://bit.parts/entry/the-ultimate-counter-to-the-exposure-pitch

golfcodeweeklyusa avatar
Golf Code Weekly USA
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

It seems like the person wanting the work done is totally clueless, probably a teenager and will inevitably neither sue nor produce anything profitable from his idea. Ideas are ten a penny Most Decent developers do you a plan, give you a quote, take 50% down then 50% when done, anyone that expects them to work for free is a fkn moron BTW the guys i pay charge me 50 pounds an hour, you might want to bump up your rates there

graham_ferguson9 avatar
Graham Ferguson
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I went down the local pub, ordered two pints and tried to pay with all the exposure tokens I had accrued. Imagine my surprised when I got barred from the premises...

kamin2000 avatar
Tony Ross
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I got this from a Disney representative. I was asked if I could show them how to make something so they could sell it. I told them I would be happy to as a third party, not as a cast member, to be able to charge for my services. Since the item contained three circles they cut me off saying that it was their intellectual property. Three circles could be construed for M. Mouse, true, but I reminded them that I am not "owned" by the company and that the technique was mine, took me ten plus years to develop, and that I was under no obligation to share it with them. So I told them to pound salt.

amanda_avallone avatar
Amanda Avallone
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

When I was a teacher (and therefore decidedly not rich) I was approached by a millionaire to develop a year-long writing curriculum and instruction program for her foundation. After I submitted a way-under-market proposal, she told me she meant for me to do it for free and was surprised that I would charge, since of course I care about education.

cbtclips avatar
Justin Thymes
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Friend of mine is a professional magician. He gets these 'exposure' requests all the time. Especially for "fund raisers" who he knows full well are getting paid for their time to do the fund raising. He just pulls out his calendar and says "well, I've already booked up so many events that I don't need more exposure." Ends that conversation right there.

cbtclips avatar
Justin Thymes
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Been there ; did that .... once. And the "exposure" client was just an a*s...wanting more features for "free" and being a real jerk. Though one good thing did result: My contracts are explicit as to what is being developed/consulted on, including a nice section on "change requests' and their additional costs. Never again. Value received for value given.

chevsg avatar
Robert Maria
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

If there is someone out there who can do something you can't, that means he can charge you what he wants to charge you for that something. The "going rate" of writing code is much higher than the programmer asked for. I think he was being quite generous and reasonable. And what of those he had to "contract out?" Was he supposed to go to them and say "Hey, guys, this guy isn't going to pay me, so I'm not going to pay you. However, this is going to be great 'exposure!'" I'm not sure but I think those people he would contract would never do business with him again. Arrogant man. When your business does "blow up" and becomes the next big thing, then you can make claims about how great it is. However, by then, you'll have the $600.00 or so to pay a programmer his worth, since your business is so "big" and all. He's not dreaming, he's deceiving even himself.

a_purchase avatar
Andrew Purchase
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Good on the programmer, you dont build a skill and experience base for someone to abuse. This is your asset, it has value and should be shown respect. If the guy wanted this done he should have coughed up. The cheap A*s.

matt_van_andel avatar
Matt van Andel
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

At first I was like.... $300/hr? $300k flat rate? Then I saw this guys hourly rate was $15 and I thought... "I didn't realize web development was a thing in 1979." That said, I've had plenty of interactions like this. Every freelancer goes through it.

miniwidge avatar
Deborah Patterson
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

You could sue him for issuing a defamatory remark. Also, he is trying to sue you for making your conversation public, which is exactly what he threatened to do. On the payment abuse, I'm an artist and I run into this a lot. People are actually surprised that I would sell my art work for more than $2 / hour (they want to spend $100 on a piece that takes roughly 50 hours to paint).

alexbardsley avatar
Alex Bardsley
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

People think they can ask for anything. Eff them for even asking.

mariannehotmom avatar
Marianne Jackson
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I think the guy who wanted work done for nothing is dreaming lol... It's not like he was asking for some lunch money til Friday... Once he started cursing and name calling, he lost all value as a professional imo... If he wants it done for free, he better learn to code, js.

inglefi avatar
Debra Inglefield
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Musicians run into this all the time -- I imagine visual artists do also. If you wouldn't ask a plumber, electrician or doctor to work for "exposure", don't expect others to do so! We still pay for food, utilities, taxes, gas, etc. Just because someone loves what they do doesn't mean they can do it for free.

rincewind22 avatar
Elric Colvill
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

People do this to anyone that works in creative arts. I can't believe the number of times I was offered "exposure" for my writing. These kind of people are the worst, but unfortunately they proliferate because so many people fall for the "exposure" lie. I hope this crushes Mr. Exposures would-be App from the start, IF (big if) he ever gets anyone to work with him on it.

ncoulter avatar
Nick Coulthurst
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Don't see how he thinks he can sue, he asked for a tender and then tried to get it for free. He became offensive when this request was denied, with a reasonable explanation. The fact that he is probably some d'head who just watched The Social Network and had an idea/twist, but no concept of how many dotcoms fail or are improved by richer faster actual developers. Maybe he should try and patent it and sell the idea on, or learn to code himself and recognise its not easy.

watermanjulie4 avatar
Julie Waterman
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

This happens with amateur or semi pro musicians too, the exposure argument is used but also the idea of it being enjoyable so you can do the gig for free or for beer!!

laura_sherman avatar
Laura Sherman
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

This is a great example of why Freelancing is no way to make a living because of cheep a-holes like this guy. Even as a Graphic Designer, people want us to work for "exposure" I can't buy food with "exposure" I can't put gas in my car for "exposure". The one who approached the programmer was getting a beyond fair price. It's crazy how all these people with great ideas want to make a profit but they don't want to invest into their own idea. What's that famous saying? "You have to spend money to make money."

gazebopictures avatar
John Harvey
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Dealing with a******s is part of it. But like you said the bigger issue is the lowball price. Making a fair rate is one thing. But this guy is charging way to little for this.

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Michael Currie
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

BoredPanda, please embed clickable tweets rather than using screenshots in your articles.

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June Smith
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Oh! And don't get me started on the crazy guy who contacted me with an online shopping idea that he was sure would be big. I offered to *help* him write a spec document that would outline what he wanted and have estimates on time and cost, but I wasn't going to write a line of code. As it went on, I figured out this guy had to be delusional... He was certain it was "Going to be bigger than Facebook" and thought that a kickstarter would pay me for any work I do, and that I could write a whole thing that would be like facebook and amazon put together in a completely virtual 3d world. I quickly cut off ties and luckily wound moving a few months later and have managed to avoid him.

june774 avatar
June Smith
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

That's the problem with being a computer programmer or a web developer, there is nothing tangible, or 'real', that a customer can feel in their hands, so they don't value the work. I charge less than most companies for web work, and I still get the odd person who goes "Whoa!" when I quote them. I just smile and say good luck when they say they might go with someone else.

adam_harding avatar
Adam Harding
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

$15 an hour, i could outsource to this guy and still make $10 an hour for doing nothing. That dude should be happy with that price, i dunno what the application actually is but add another $10/ph to the price and that's my quote lol and even i think I'm cheap.

kathy_littlejohn avatar
Kathy Littlejohn
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I don't know how many times I've had people ask me to do free art work for them for the "exposure". They say " It's JUST a drawing", well then You do the drawing since it's sooo easy.

wbwpix avatar
Ben Weller
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

This is hilarious. BoredPanda.com used my copyrighted photographs without pay or permission and never responded to my inquiries or paid the invoice I sent. But at least I got some exposure right! F*****g hypocrites.

kathy_13 avatar
Kathy Lauer
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

The only time in-kind/exchange/barter deals are o.k. is when it is approached up-front that way. "Hey, I have a bike to sell and a lizard that needs a babysitter. I know you need a bike, and I know you babysit lizards. Do you want to deal?" Otherwise this c**p of expecting someone to program for you, play at your wedding, photograph your kids, knit you a sweater, etc. for free is just a tightwad with no class looking for a handout.

rkroshon avatar
Kate Roshon
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Well the programmer is now getting his free exposer but not the way intended!! I hope he (the programmer) does well with his life because he handled this well!! :)

wizardgold avatar
David Allen Wizardgold
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Had the same thing when I was starting a sign writing business. Can't eat exposure.

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Paul Usher
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

The best things in life are free, but people need to eat. What an idiot. Points to him for trying, but in my book he lost a lot of points the moment he went toxic XD

hazelree avatar
Stille20
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

The client was totally unprofessional, but as a freelancer I wouldn't recommend publicly bad mouthing clients. The next person who thinks about hiring you might reconsider because they don't want their texts getting publicly posted.

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Jeanna
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

This is exactly why I switched from the graphic design field to the medical field. I don't work for free.

georgiastergiadis avatar
Long Joan Silver
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

No one should work for free! Good on this guy, for standing his ground.

darlene1waters_1 avatar
Darlene Waters
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

President Dumpster has made a lifestyle out of doing exactly what this scammer tried to do.

celeste_firefox avatar
Celeste Spaniel
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Sadly I've been in these situations more than a few times! It's incredible how some people assume you'll work for free!

marsinterviews avatar
Mars Interviews
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Handled that exactly right, I'd say. Nobody should be expected to provide something of value, including their time and effort, to other people for free. Good on this programmer for recognizing "for the exposure" as the ripoff it is.

beerhere2010 avatar
Ken Tucker
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

'exposure' an artist's take>> http://theoatmeal.com/comics/exposure

garygoldfinch avatar
gary goldfinch
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Good for him. I think the customer may have been Erlich Bachman.

mhirsch9 avatar
Miriam Hirsch
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Every artist ever born gets this kind of stuff, even if you are a fully recognized artist with a following people expect you to do things for free. My favorite is the restaurant owner saying he'll/she'll let you hang your work in their establishment and they won't charge you a fee if something sells! This is getting the restaurant decorated for free and, believe me, you won't sell anything. The tech designer did the absolute right thing by turning the guy down.

peterpettigrew avatar
Peter Pettigrew
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I love how he says, "someone who understand business" like, dude, how utterly incompetant do you have to be to say that. Like it would be better if he just went on with the a-hole thing but left it at that, but, no, he had to desto my faith in humanity

dorp_1 avatar
Dot Porter
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I think this programmer should charge more that $15/hour for his time! That's cheap.

alfredmabey avatar
Alfred Mabey
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I'm sorry, but besides the guys horrible attitude, it's the nature of the business you chose to work in. Most professions that do not require a standardized education of a license, are up for negotiation. What a programer, artist, musician etc etc differs significantly. Especially in the age of freelance websites. As a business person, it is my responsibility to find the best balance between quality and cost. But, $15 an hour for a programer (assuming you know what you are doing) is a realy good price.

alexiswaite00 avatar
Alexis Waite
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Sorry you can't pay bills or eat or keep a roof over your head with "exposure".

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Chris Sprucefield
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

The exposure buck$ apparently didn't work both ways. Good luck, "client". You can't make people work for free.

littlegreycells avatar
Donna Oades
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Wow, that "customer" is a moron. I can't believe how rude he got! I agree with Daria, it reminds me exactly of how guys (probably girls too, but I've only had it happen with guys) get all angry if you turn them down, and then basically say "I never wanted you anyway, I can get someone better, eff you". Seems very passive agressive to me! Good on the coder for not giving in to his ridiculous demands.

sebastiankorsch avatar
Sebastian Korsch
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Tip to the hat, well spoken! Writing while on hold for 28m with my parents s****y ISP, later wifi setup for my friends ex, rather be fishing

ryekaw avatar
Teresa Kuhl
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Way to go Zach! All that work for 'exposure' which you already have plenty of? I don't think so! If this 'customer' wants all that work done for free he can do it himself.

sauk6565 avatar
Su Kelly
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

If friendaloo thinks your prices are too high, he needs to get 'his backend' into a programming class and do it himself. LOL

jwhm1994 avatar
Joseph Wong
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Just a week ago I got this Client: Hey man I liker you work! But do you have any you know real art? Me: Well my art is as real as it is I specialize in creatures Client: Thats great but I need real art done? You know girls with tits? Me:Yea I can do that, you want a rough concept right. I can do it for 125 Client: Well since you don't specialize in it maybe you could work for some exposure? We are doing this absolutely ground breaking business its totally crushing the travel industry! What better way to entice tourist with some hotties by the beach? Me: No, I don't work for free sorry Client: Is this how you talk to your customers? Its going to look badly on you, besides this business is taking of whether you like it or not! Me: Yea good luck with that man Client: You will be crying when we own every flight there is!

mikey_mullins_142 avatar
Mikey Mullins
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

it's the people who will do it for nothing who undermine everyone else.

pronoy-de avatar
Pronoy De
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I regret so much for doing a PCB design for free and upgrading it for an entire year. It started with "please, I need some suggestions" via a friend and due to my stupidity it turned into "we need to do this" and "you must do this". I admit, that I am not the best, but was pretty good at the job amongst peers (was in college then, so thought why not help out a fellow). "When you are good at something, never do it for free"

arkiejon avatar
Johnny Joe
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

It is like that in every small business. There is always someone trying do a con job on you. Some want you to give them a list of all the parts they need. Then once they know what they need to do the job they search the internet for better pricing. Once they have everything they call you back and act like they have finally got the money to buy but want to know what all it is you would do with each part and what each part does, That way they know how it all works and can put it together with out you. It is a scam that I fought for 10 years in the solar business. I would waste 40 plus hours talking to people and they walk away and buy from a wholesaler which they most likely coned as well.

richardworth77 avatar
Countryman2013
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Sounds like a typical interaction in the ER only he's not getting spat at, punched, or kicked when they don't get their way. *Good for you!*

lahmib avatar
John Cooley
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

free labor to produce goods and services is called SLAVERY.

manowce avatar
Olga Śmiełowska
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

unless you're a charity raising money to feed hungry kids you DO NOT ask someone to work for free. that's just lack of respect.

onemessylady avatar
Aunt Messy
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

And not then, either. Check the Charity Watch web site and find out how much money the CEO makes. If it's over $50.00, they can damned well pay for their own artwork.

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Heather Mack-Scott
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Wow, I'm tired, I read this as "Exposure exsmosure. Gimme monKeys!" and thought WTF?..actiually that's awesome...but then I realized you said money, and was all like "Awww :-( " hehe

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Gene Maning
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

They're everywhere and they're thinking you can get swayed. Even if you're offered stock options, you should still charge someone for doing it. Unless, it's your idea (of course you'll do your idea for free). LMAO.

smoky-x avatar
Rhân
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Hmhm. I absolutly don't understand people that want people to do something for them without wanting any to give back. - and then go angry and write insults. - the person does not only not understand what worth the work has although he obviously see that he can't do it by himself, he is rude, too, and this as a (probably) boss of a company is kind of rude and not very clever. I'm not a fan of posting everything online, especially messages and when you're not asking. But I hope he don't get any problems for that.

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I_am_Batman
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

He should have revealed his identity so that people know who this cheap f*ck is!

thatkeith avatar
Keith Martin
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Yes. Name and shame, people, name and shame. It's not a privileged conversation.

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Gottlob Frege
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

At the end UBER's takes retreat , I mean vacations ...Same attitude ! Making big money without paying workers is the new age mantra !

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Thomas Kolev
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Exposure is like in game money compared to the real premium money in free to play mobile games, completely useless.

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Jonathan Eatsalot
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

twitter is the end of civility and maturity. Neither side of this is impressive

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Mel Lagon
Community Member
6 years ago

This comment is hidden. Click here to view.

sounds like a trump family member wants for nothing lmfao

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Adogcalledkitty
Community Member
6 years ago

This comment is hidden. Click here to view.

Yes, he's right and the customer was an ....hole. But is it really something that has to be shared with the whole world? Everyone has their own problems within their work but not everyone feels the need to let it know with complete strangers who can't do anything about it. Are people's lives really this boring?

sergiobicerra_1 avatar
Sergio Bicerra Descalzi
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Lots of people, mainly designers, people with creative skills, are asked to work for free cause "is not that hard work" and that has to stop.

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onemessylady avatar
Aunt Messy
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

It happens every day. Artists get that garbage, too. We get approached to "donate" pieces for "charity" events where our work will sell for hundreds of dollars. Sorry babe, I don't work for free. I'll let you BUY my work and donate it yourself.

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Daria B
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

The way the customer takes the programmer's refusal to work for free reminds me of those a-holes who can't accept refusal from a potential love interest.

csgerlach avatar
Creedence Gerlach
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Precisely. Guy: Show me your tits. Girl: No. Guy: F**k you you ugly b***h go to the gym if you hate yourself so much. Girl: ???

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John L
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

What people today, especially the "I'm entitled" crowd, fail to realize is that the concept of "Supply and Demand" is based on a two way process where goods and services, "Of Equal Value" are Willingly exchanged between the two parties. Many think they are "entitled" to get something for nothing. That's not the way the universe works. :O

kenroberts avatar
Imma Letchofinish
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I work in design and marketing and used to get this stuff all the time. The last time I got this kind of 'work for the exposure' I would say 'Ok, but I need to see your business plan, market research and be a part of any company decisions since my work is now part of your business. We should also discuss all of our compensation when this does go big. When it does, we should all be made rich since we're working on it for nothing.' The guy never called me back...funny how that happened....

jerry-mathers-73 avatar
Jerry Mathers
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

What the customer is really saying: I have an idea (That's the hard part, my work is done) Can you make the program do x (Is it possible?) For exposure (I'll tell everyone I know a sucker that works for free) or If it gets big (Not sure if it will work and don't want to pay to find out. Also I need someone to blame if it fails), Then we can talk stock options (like giving you the option to buy my stock). It's your chance to get in on the ground floor (without you, there's no business). It's a chance of a lifetime (my chance, my lifetime). You'll be sorry you missed out (on giving up 40+ hours of your life to make me rich, maybe). Okay, but don't steal my idea (that isn't worth paying to develop) or I'll sue you (I don't have money to pay you, but I have a huge slush fund to pay a lawyer).

bobbinewell avatar
Bobbi Newell
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

That customer started off as a slimeball and went downhill from there. The second he used foul language, he lost any power he had. We all know who the REAL professional is in this exchange!

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M. M
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

My dad is a photographer and will sometimes massively reduce his prices for those who obviously can not afford him but have a good idea/cause. Other than that, no one works for free.

rgjimenez787 avatar
Rebecca Jimenez
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

And that's reasonable. If someone can't afford services, it's fine to see if a better payment plan can be placed or a discount/rate reduction. But to ask for free work (especially if it's going to make the client money rather than be for a good/selfless cause) is a slap in the face.

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Shana
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Exposure doesn't pay bills and doesn't bring food to the table.

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Zenozenobee
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Yeap, I wonder if he tried the "exposure" stuff on his house builder, the guy he bought his car to, his tour operator, his grocer... Some people really need to understand that the stupid one is not the one refusing to work for free.

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jeandraper68 avatar
Jean Draper
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Musicians live with this constantly. "Come do a showcase!" "Do this one show for exposure and I'll book you better gigs." "Work for the jar at the front door." Problem is, some are so desperate, they accept and thereby devalue us all and make it harder for everyone, including themselves to be compensated appropriately.

jeannamagary avatar
Jeanna
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

same with designers, devaluing us all so that people won't pay for good design

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The Cappy
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I wonder if that mystery guy works for free too (for the exposure)... or if that's just for *other* people.

ehsan0920 avatar
Ehsan Es
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I think clients think of designers like product in supermarkets; "when is the sale?" "How can I get out of this cheaply?" "I'll just try it out and return." Recently I made a logo desing for an investment company website, he went silent after receiving the design, looked at his website and it's there, the logo I made, proudly put big on front page. The big irony here is, he deals basically in money and can't make himself to pay 69 usd for a professional logo desing. Blah

craigwright avatar
Craig Wright
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Resend their invoice again one last time by recorded mail so they have to sign for it. Give them 30 days. Warn them at 31 days. Warn at 60.

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binanda_smada avatar
Usernameofgag
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I know a lot people like this. They always make me fool when I bought a program or design. They told me "are you stupid, you can pirate it". And I will answer "yes, i'm capable to do pirating, but i respect the people behind this masterpiece. Could you make a same program like this? If you could, you should use yours. And if you couldn't, you should try to make one. "

cbtclips avatar
Justin Thymes
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Yep. That "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" approach to life.

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Michael Allan
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I do SEO and recently one of my old clients came back asking me to update his site. I ran an audit and gave him my estimate - 48 hours. Since I worked with this guy almost 10 years ago I've raised my rates. Back then I charged him $25, now I charge $75-90. He asked if for old time sake I would give him the old rate, so I said sure. Then he said, "And store credit is OK?". Uh no. I don't need $1800 store credit with a laptop repair shop! He got all indignant like the customer in this story. Needless to say I'm NOT helping him.

iapetosdertitan avatar
Iapetos
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

"Sorry, I need to eat! Good luck out there!" Clearly best response. Work is always going to cost money, I really don't comprehend some people.

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Bobbi Spence
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Kudos to Zach for keeping his responses civil...unlike the guy trying to get something for nothing. More people need to realize that responding to nastiness with more nastiness just breeds more hatred. The last thing this world needs.

kangaroekim avatar
Kim de Beer
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I cant just imagine you talk nasty to someone you need something from... but on the other hand. you know exactly what you are dealing with, instead of the sweet talkers (but behind your back)

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Elizabeth Gross
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Please please PLEASE charge more than $15/hr for your development work. Undercutting the market like that just hurts everybody long-term.

dotcartman_1 avatar
Diane Serpa
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I try not to tell people what to charge because they might live somewhere cheaper than I do. or more expensive. Telling people in NYC to charge what I charge would not pay for dinner let alone rent. Telling someone in a rural area to charge $200/hour makes even less sense if their clients are all local. If you can get it, great.

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Thomas H.
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I've had similar experiences. I'm an electrician and I've had people ask me to do jobs in their homes and offer to pay me for the materials I had to use, but not for the labour. If my expertise is not valued, then do the job yourself and let me know how long it take the fire department to respond to the call.

em_1 avatar
Martina Třešková
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

The customer is clearly r******d, he can't even write properly (let alone that his way is completely unprofessional) and he generaly doesn't have a clue. What an ego to speak to a pro who can do something you clearly can't like this.

dmills2 avatar
David Mills
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

"exposure" is today's equivalent of the carrot on a stick...you'd have to be an a*s to fall for it

virgilblue avatar
Virgil Blue
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

So familiar. I once had a guy do the exposure spiel for a website to me when I was still green. But after showing him the first mock ups he wasxoffended that I put a "created by" credit on the pages and demanded I remove them. I told him to go find some other fool after getting treated like that.

scottlin avatar
Scott Linklater
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

So they wanted to pay you in exposure but then spat the dummy when you attempted to put in place one of the things that would get you exposure......riiiiiighteo then! That, makes perfectly no sense whatsoever! LOL

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Sebastian Korsch
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

some people think if you are freelance artist, coder, admin... you do this for fun, on weekends and for free instead for making a living

luyendao avatar
Lu
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

First mistake was to set a rate of $15 / hour. Right off the bat the so called client thought this guy was worth peanuts, and de-valued him before the conversation even starts. If you're just starting out as a web coder, $50/hour should be the starting price to weed out people who would take advantage of you.

giorgioprodoti avatar
jlk103144 avatar
John L
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Yeah, maybe the irate fellow would be willing to perform that as part of the payment? :D

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artcat742 avatar
Kori K. Warriner
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Gawd. As a photographer and graphic design graduate, this has happened. On the flip side, though, so has "Really, only $##? Wow! You need to charge more! Thank you!"

octarin avatar
Margie Lazou
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Bottom line is: good thing he didn't accept the job, cause that cheapass douche wouldn't have paid him after.

beerhere2010 avatar
Ken Tucker
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

a) 'Don't ask, don't get.' - but - b) you get what you pay for - and - someone stupid enough to work for nothing is likely to be worth what you (don't) pay them #justsaying

incognitushumanum avatar
Jeanne Deaux
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

This customer must come from DeviantArt. This site is full of people wanting work done for free.

susan_19 avatar
Susan Allen
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

This happens in every industry - as a Virtual Assistant, I was constantly hit by requests for "mock-ups" or "samples" of work - for free. No - that's not how it works, my friend. Do you go to a store, tell the clerk you're not going to pay for the dress you're taking out of the store with you - because you just want to sample it for a few hours? Will a restaurant allow you to come in and graze at the buffet, taking little bits of this and that, and leave without paying, because you just wanted to try it out?

michaelatwsu avatar
Michael Gary
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I have frequently quit jobs when the scope creep escalates to me putting in hours for free. Sorry, my time and my life are precious. If you want quality results, don't expect anything for free. You get what you pay for.

denisemelek_toygar avatar
Denise Melek
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Yeah, his business is suuuure going to blow up, as its such a big "opporunitu".

blaasdf2 avatar
Hugo Raible
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Not sure about their place of residence, but here he'd easily be able to sue a few hundred or thousand bucks out of the other person for the "a*****e" alone. But yeah, 15$/hour sound pretty cheap... I might hire Zach for some project ;)

taryn_wallace_7 avatar
Taryn Wallace
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Kind of wish he had outed the "company" completely just so I could be 100% sure never to go to them. I understand why he didn't do it, still

jilldsumner avatar
Jilltdcatlady
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

So the designer gets stock options if the business takes off. ?? Or he can send his friends over, and they can barter for "free"work. And what if the guy's idea is just bad and not the designer's fault? That's Free Exposure nobody wants.

darinanderson avatar
Darin Anderson
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

The way the customer went from zero to pissy in like 2 lines. Probably dodged a bullet by blowing the customer off. A d**k like this would be nothing but trouble to do any work for. When someone tells you that you need a good lawyer, you can be pretty sure you won't need a good lawyer.

jeannamagary avatar
Jeanna
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

This programmer was lucky to find out upfront that this guy was a jerk. He would have been a nightmare client to work for. (And the programmer should charge more for his work too. $15 is not too much for writing code)

bndiggs avatar
David Baker
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Pretty much every other artist, designer, photographer and musician I know has had multiple coversaions almost exactly like this one....to paraphrase an old maxim, He who can, does, he who cannot attempts to get it done for free.

karen_stauffer avatar
Karen Stauffer
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I have a small shop.Among other things, we sell books. I've had people ask me if I have a copy machine because they don't want to buy the book, just to copy 3 pages from it. I tell them no, I don't, and it would also be a violation of the author's copyright.

lanza130 avatar
Melody Lanzatella
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Just amazing! Programmer handled the situation with restraint AND class! Mr "ground floor opportunity" is gonna stay RIGHT where he belongs! ON THE GROUND FLOOR!

eabloor avatar
Emily Bloor
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I love that he says he will find someone who understands 'busines' yet spells it wrong. haha! What an idiot. This guy handled it superbly

deathmetalkitty avatar
Death Metal Kitty
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

The only people who react with hostility and spite when faced with logic and reason tend to be bullies or come from a background of nurtured a sense of entitled-ness. A dime a dozen.

karljbeyer avatar
Karl Beyer
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

$15/hr? I don't know who I'm more upset with now. The jerk customer or the programmer bringing down the profession to the pay of a fast food clerk.

lee-anngilliam avatar
Lee-Ann Gilliam
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

The cost of living isn't the same in every state, what would be enough to buy a tiny house in CA can get you nearly 2000 sq ft in TX. Also, there aren't any fast food clerks around here that make $15/hr.

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George Smith
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I admire him for standing his ground. Only people who are young and insecure will do what he was asking. Rarely do these people help you get more business they usually just take advantage for their benefit. People who truly want you to succeed pay you and pay you well.

lizettewong avatar
thatkeith avatar
Keith Martin
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Not sure how someone's supposed to survive on $15/h as a freelance rate, given that typically only 50% of a freelancer's working time in a year is chargeable. It should be *at least* double. But yeah, it's still $15/h better than 'exposure.'

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skydivegaming avatar
SkyDive Gaming
Community Member
5 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

the people who say bull s**t like do it for exposure is a******s who does not know how to do the job them selves and that does not make any money so they should get a real job rather than trying to get free s**t its basicly the web's version of gold diggers...

edward_kimble avatar
Edward Kimble
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Customer knew the costs going in. And know, in a contract situation, such conversations are almost always recorded and published one way or another for protection. Been in a similar situation... to convert a printer plotter program to long integers so that a bigger bed size could be accommodated. The original code did not belong to the client and while the original programmer didn't want the job, the negotiated price was pitiful. Lots of cussing, threats, nastigrams. Two months later I wrote a 5k$ program for a subsidiary company of the same client, for about $20/hour, no problems. And the program worked like a champ.

carol-a-stephen1 avatar
Carol Stephen
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

As a writer and a poet, very familiar with the expectation that one's work comes free. For the exposure, of course!

lnz_a avatar
laney jane
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

My boyfriend is in IT and is CONSTANTLY being asked by 'friends' aka 'freeloaders' if he can just 'take a quick look at their computer' for free of course. He's a nice guy so he always says yes, but I'm not as nice, so I bought him this shirt. http://amzn.to/2u4NMNV computer-5...ec-png.jpg computer-59618885c18ec-png.jpg

kirathesloth avatar
Kira Thesloth
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I know next to nothing about programming & I still knew this guy was getting a heck of a deal. $15 an hour sounds darn near exposure rate to me, the guy could be charging way more. The rude guy's identity & ideas seem well protected by the programmer too which makes it even sillier that he threatened to sue.

lizmolloy1969 avatar
Elizabeth Molloy
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

With an attitude like that, his 'business' is going nowhere! You gotta spend money to make money. Asshat.

cherieterblache avatar
Cherié Terblanche
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

This really irks me as well. It's as if people just expect you to do stuff for free because "it's your hobby and your job and you love doing it so it won't feel like work, it will be like a nice relaxing breakaway for you". F**k you. Yes, I draw to escape sometimes, but that's different to drawing forced stuff for someone else. The nerve of people who get all offended when they ask you to do something and you say "okay, that will be $$so-and-so". All shocked like they didn't even consider it might be an inconvenience to you to go out of your way to create something for them. Gosh.

koconnor avatar
Kevin OConnor
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Be careful whom you try to screw over on the way to the top... You may just meet them again on the way to the bottom.

tiny3179 avatar
Beau Beau Permaul
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

This is what's wrong with Society today! Everyone wants something for free!

ssllaasskk avatar
Mats Svensson
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Nice... You type in a comment, click post ...and THEN you are told to register? And after you get shot-gun registered, the comment is thrown away anyway? Real F nice! And low-contrast design, in 2017?

ssllaasskk avatar
Mats Svensson
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I wonder what the project was. Probably "like youtube, but for clothes", or similar. Ohhh, think of all that exposure!

ges2 avatar
Gary Schoenfeldt
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Any half competent IT company would charge at least $200 an hour, if not more and that includes the time spent in the initial consultation, which this analyst provided for free. The only thing that needs 'exposure' are freeloaders trying to pass themselves off as businessmen.

chris_65 avatar
Christopher Ambler
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I'll leave this here... http://bit.parts/entry/the-ultimate-counter-to-the-exposure-pitch

golfcodeweeklyusa avatar
Golf Code Weekly USA
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

It seems like the person wanting the work done is totally clueless, probably a teenager and will inevitably neither sue nor produce anything profitable from his idea. Ideas are ten a penny Most Decent developers do you a plan, give you a quote, take 50% down then 50% when done, anyone that expects them to work for free is a fkn moron BTW the guys i pay charge me 50 pounds an hour, you might want to bump up your rates there

graham_ferguson9 avatar
Graham Ferguson
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I went down the local pub, ordered two pints and tried to pay with all the exposure tokens I had accrued. Imagine my surprised when I got barred from the premises...

kamin2000 avatar
Tony Ross
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I got this from a Disney representative. I was asked if I could show them how to make something so they could sell it. I told them I would be happy to as a third party, not as a cast member, to be able to charge for my services. Since the item contained three circles they cut me off saying that it was their intellectual property. Three circles could be construed for M. Mouse, true, but I reminded them that I am not "owned" by the company and that the technique was mine, took me ten plus years to develop, and that I was under no obligation to share it with them. So I told them to pound salt.

amanda_avallone avatar
Amanda Avallone
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

When I was a teacher (and therefore decidedly not rich) I was approached by a millionaire to develop a year-long writing curriculum and instruction program for her foundation. After I submitted a way-under-market proposal, she told me she meant for me to do it for free and was surprised that I would charge, since of course I care about education.

cbtclips avatar
Justin Thymes
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Friend of mine is a professional magician. He gets these 'exposure' requests all the time. Especially for "fund raisers" who he knows full well are getting paid for their time to do the fund raising. He just pulls out his calendar and says "well, I've already booked up so many events that I don't need more exposure." Ends that conversation right there.

cbtclips avatar
Justin Thymes
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Been there ; did that .... once. And the "exposure" client was just an a*s...wanting more features for "free" and being a real jerk. Though one good thing did result: My contracts are explicit as to what is being developed/consulted on, including a nice section on "change requests' and their additional costs. Never again. Value received for value given.

chevsg avatar
Robert Maria
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

If there is someone out there who can do something you can't, that means he can charge you what he wants to charge you for that something. The "going rate" of writing code is much higher than the programmer asked for. I think he was being quite generous and reasonable. And what of those he had to "contract out?" Was he supposed to go to them and say "Hey, guys, this guy isn't going to pay me, so I'm not going to pay you. However, this is going to be great 'exposure!'" I'm not sure but I think those people he would contract would never do business with him again. Arrogant man. When your business does "blow up" and becomes the next big thing, then you can make claims about how great it is. However, by then, you'll have the $600.00 or so to pay a programmer his worth, since your business is so "big" and all. He's not dreaming, he's deceiving even himself.

a_purchase avatar
Andrew Purchase
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Good on the programmer, you dont build a skill and experience base for someone to abuse. This is your asset, it has value and should be shown respect. If the guy wanted this done he should have coughed up. The cheap A*s.

matt_van_andel avatar
Matt van Andel
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

At first I was like.... $300/hr? $300k flat rate? Then I saw this guys hourly rate was $15 and I thought... "I didn't realize web development was a thing in 1979." That said, I've had plenty of interactions like this. Every freelancer goes through it.

miniwidge avatar
Deborah Patterson
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

You could sue him for issuing a defamatory remark. Also, he is trying to sue you for making your conversation public, which is exactly what he threatened to do. On the payment abuse, I'm an artist and I run into this a lot. People are actually surprised that I would sell my art work for more than $2 / hour (they want to spend $100 on a piece that takes roughly 50 hours to paint).

alexbardsley avatar
Alex Bardsley
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

People think they can ask for anything. Eff them for even asking.

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Marianne Jackson
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I think the guy who wanted work done for nothing is dreaming lol... It's not like he was asking for some lunch money til Friday... Once he started cursing and name calling, he lost all value as a professional imo... If he wants it done for free, he better learn to code, js.

inglefi avatar
Debra Inglefield
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Musicians run into this all the time -- I imagine visual artists do also. If you wouldn't ask a plumber, electrician or doctor to work for "exposure", don't expect others to do so! We still pay for food, utilities, taxes, gas, etc. Just because someone loves what they do doesn't mean they can do it for free.

rincewind22 avatar
Elric Colvill
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

People do this to anyone that works in creative arts. I can't believe the number of times I was offered "exposure" for my writing. These kind of people are the worst, but unfortunately they proliferate because so many people fall for the "exposure" lie. I hope this crushes Mr. Exposures would-be App from the start, IF (big if) he ever gets anyone to work with him on it.

ncoulter avatar
Nick Coulthurst
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Don't see how he thinks he can sue, he asked for a tender and then tried to get it for free. He became offensive when this request was denied, with a reasonable explanation. The fact that he is probably some d'head who just watched The Social Network and had an idea/twist, but no concept of how many dotcoms fail or are improved by richer faster actual developers. Maybe he should try and patent it and sell the idea on, or learn to code himself and recognise its not easy.

watermanjulie4 avatar
Julie Waterman
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

This happens with amateur or semi pro musicians too, the exposure argument is used but also the idea of it being enjoyable so you can do the gig for free or for beer!!

laura_sherman avatar
Laura Sherman
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

This is a great example of why Freelancing is no way to make a living because of cheep a-holes like this guy. Even as a Graphic Designer, people want us to work for "exposure" I can't buy food with "exposure" I can't put gas in my car for "exposure". The one who approached the programmer was getting a beyond fair price. It's crazy how all these people with great ideas want to make a profit but they don't want to invest into their own idea. What's that famous saying? "You have to spend money to make money."

gazebopictures avatar
John Harvey
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Dealing with a******s is part of it. But like you said the bigger issue is the lowball price. Making a fair rate is one thing. But this guy is charging way to little for this.

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mcurrie avatar
Michael Currie
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

BoredPanda, please embed clickable tweets rather than using screenshots in your articles.

june774 avatar
June Smith
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Oh! And don't get me started on the crazy guy who contacted me with an online shopping idea that he was sure would be big. I offered to *help* him write a spec document that would outline what he wanted and have estimates on time and cost, but I wasn't going to write a line of code. As it went on, I figured out this guy had to be delusional... He was certain it was "Going to be bigger than Facebook" and thought that a kickstarter would pay me for any work I do, and that I could write a whole thing that would be like facebook and amazon put together in a completely virtual 3d world. I quickly cut off ties and luckily wound moving a few months later and have managed to avoid him.

june774 avatar
June Smith
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

That's the problem with being a computer programmer or a web developer, there is nothing tangible, or 'real', that a customer can feel in their hands, so they don't value the work. I charge less than most companies for web work, and I still get the odd person who goes "Whoa!" when I quote them. I just smile and say good luck when they say they might go with someone else.

adam_harding avatar
Adam Harding
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

$15 an hour, i could outsource to this guy and still make $10 an hour for doing nothing. That dude should be happy with that price, i dunno what the application actually is but add another $10/ph to the price and that's my quote lol and even i think I'm cheap.

kathy_littlejohn avatar
Kathy Littlejohn
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I don't know how many times I've had people ask me to do free art work for them for the "exposure". They say " It's JUST a drawing", well then You do the drawing since it's sooo easy.

wbwpix avatar
Ben Weller
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

This is hilarious. BoredPanda.com used my copyrighted photographs without pay or permission and never responded to my inquiries or paid the invoice I sent. But at least I got some exposure right! F*****g hypocrites.

kathy_13 avatar
Kathy Lauer
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

The only time in-kind/exchange/barter deals are o.k. is when it is approached up-front that way. "Hey, I have a bike to sell and a lizard that needs a babysitter. I know you need a bike, and I know you babysit lizards. Do you want to deal?" Otherwise this c**p of expecting someone to program for you, play at your wedding, photograph your kids, knit you a sweater, etc. for free is just a tightwad with no class looking for a handout.

rkroshon avatar
Kate Roshon
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Well the programmer is now getting his free exposer but not the way intended!! I hope he (the programmer) does well with his life because he handled this well!! :)

wizardgold avatar
David Allen Wizardgold
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Had the same thing when I was starting a sign writing business. Can't eat exposure.

paul_usher avatar
Paul Usher
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

The best things in life are free, but people need to eat. What an idiot. Points to him for trying, but in my book he lost a lot of points the moment he went toxic XD

hazelree avatar
Stille20
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

The client was totally unprofessional, but as a freelancer I wouldn't recommend publicly bad mouthing clients. The next person who thinks about hiring you might reconsider because they don't want their texts getting publicly posted.

jeannamagary avatar
Jeanna
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

This is exactly why I switched from the graphic design field to the medical field. I don't work for free.

georgiastergiadis avatar
Long Joan Silver
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

No one should work for free! Good on this guy, for standing his ground.

darlene1waters_1 avatar
Darlene Waters
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

President Dumpster has made a lifestyle out of doing exactly what this scammer tried to do.

celeste_firefox avatar
Celeste Spaniel
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Sadly I've been in these situations more than a few times! It's incredible how some people assume you'll work for free!

marsinterviews avatar
Mars Interviews
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Handled that exactly right, I'd say. Nobody should be expected to provide something of value, including their time and effort, to other people for free. Good on this programmer for recognizing "for the exposure" as the ripoff it is.

beerhere2010 avatar
Ken Tucker
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

'exposure' an artist's take>> http://theoatmeal.com/comics/exposure

garygoldfinch avatar
gary goldfinch
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Good for him. I think the customer may have been Erlich Bachman.

mhirsch9 avatar
Miriam Hirsch
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Every artist ever born gets this kind of stuff, even if you are a fully recognized artist with a following people expect you to do things for free. My favorite is the restaurant owner saying he'll/she'll let you hang your work in their establishment and they won't charge you a fee if something sells! This is getting the restaurant decorated for free and, believe me, you won't sell anything. The tech designer did the absolute right thing by turning the guy down.

peterpettigrew avatar
Peter Pettigrew
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I love how he says, "someone who understand business" like, dude, how utterly incompetant do you have to be to say that. Like it would be better if he just went on with the a-hole thing but left it at that, but, no, he had to desto my faith in humanity

dorp_1 avatar
Dot Porter
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I think this programmer should charge more that $15/hour for his time! That's cheap.

alfredmabey avatar
Alfred Mabey
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I'm sorry, but besides the guys horrible attitude, it's the nature of the business you chose to work in. Most professions that do not require a standardized education of a license, are up for negotiation. What a programer, artist, musician etc etc differs significantly. Especially in the age of freelance websites. As a business person, it is my responsibility to find the best balance between quality and cost. But, $15 an hour for a programer (assuming you know what you are doing) is a realy good price.

alexiswaite00 avatar
Alexis Waite
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Sorry you can't pay bills or eat or keep a roof over your head with "exposure".

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Chris Sprucefield
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

The exposure buck$ apparently didn't work both ways. Good luck, "client". You can't make people work for free.

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Donna Oades
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Wow, that "customer" is a moron. I can't believe how rude he got! I agree with Daria, it reminds me exactly of how guys (probably girls too, but I've only had it happen with guys) get all angry if you turn them down, and then basically say "I never wanted you anyway, I can get someone better, eff you". Seems very passive agressive to me! Good on the coder for not giving in to his ridiculous demands.

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Sebastian Korsch
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Tip to the hat, well spoken! Writing while on hold for 28m with my parents s****y ISP, later wifi setup for my friends ex, rather be fishing

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Teresa Kuhl
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Way to go Zach! All that work for 'exposure' which you already have plenty of? I don't think so! If this 'customer' wants all that work done for free he can do it himself.

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Su Kelly
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

If friendaloo thinks your prices are too high, he needs to get 'his backend' into a programming class and do it himself. LOL

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Joseph Wong
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Just a week ago I got this Client: Hey man I liker you work! But do you have any you know real art? Me: Well my art is as real as it is I specialize in creatures Client: Thats great but I need real art done? You know girls with tits? Me:Yea I can do that, you want a rough concept right. I can do it for 125 Client: Well since you don't specialize in it maybe you could work for some exposure? We are doing this absolutely ground breaking business its totally crushing the travel industry! What better way to entice tourist with some hotties by the beach? Me: No, I don't work for free sorry Client: Is this how you talk to your customers? Its going to look badly on you, besides this business is taking of whether you like it or not! Me: Yea good luck with that man Client: You will be crying when we own every flight there is!

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Mikey Mullins
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

it's the people who will do it for nothing who undermine everyone else.

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Pronoy De
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I regret so much for doing a PCB design for free and upgrading it for an entire year. It started with "please, I need some suggestions" via a friend and due to my stupidity it turned into "we need to do this" and "you must do this". I admit, that I am not the best, but was pretty good at the job amongst peers (was in college then, so thought why not help out a fellow). "When you are good at something, never do it for free"

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Johnny Joe
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

It is like that in every small business. There is always someone trying do a con job on you. Some want you to give them a list of all the parts they need. Then once they know what they need to do the job they search the internet for better pricing. Once they have everything they call you back and act like they have finally got the money to buy but want to know what all it is you would do with each part and what each part does, That way they know how it all works and can put it together with out you. It is a scam that I fought for 10 years in the solar business. I would waste 40 plus hours talking to people and they walk away and buy from a wholesaler which they most likely coned as well.

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Countryman2013
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Sounds like a typical interaction in the ER only he's not getting spat at, punched, or kicked when they don't get their way. *Good for you!*

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John Cooley
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

free labor to produce goods and services is called SLAVERY.

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Olga Śmiełowska
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

unless you're a charity raising money to feed hungry kids you DO NOT ask someone to work for free. that's just lack of respect.

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Aunt Messy
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

And not then, either. Check the Charity Watch web site and find out how much money the CEO makes. If it's over $50.00, they can damned well pay for their own artwork.

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Heather Mack-Scott
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Wow, I'm tired, I read this as "Exposure exsmosure. Gimme monKeys!" and thought WTF?..actiually that's awesome...but then I realized you said money, and was all like "Awww :-( " hehe

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Gene Maning
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

They're everywhere and they're thinking you can get swayed. Even if you're offered stock options, you should still charge someone for doing it. Unless, it's your idea (of course you'll do your idea for free). LMAO.

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Rhân
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Hmhm. I absolutly don't understand people that want people to do something for them without wanting any to give back. - and then go angry and write insults. - the person does not only not understand what worth the work has although he obviously see that he can't do it by himself, he is rude, too, and this as a (probably) boss of a company is kind of rude and not very clever. I'm not a fan of posting everything online, especially messages and when you're not asking. But I hope he don't get any problems for that.

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I_am_Batman
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

He should have revealed his identity so that people know who this cheap f*ck is!

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Keith Martin
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Yes. Name and shame, people, name and shame. It's not a privileged conversation.

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Gottlob Frege
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

At the end UBER's takes retreat , I mean vacations ...Same attitude ! Making big money without paying workers is the new age mantra !

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Thomas Kolev
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Exposure is like in game money compared to the real premium money in free to play mobile games, completely useless.

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Jonathan Eatsalot
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

twitter is the end of civility and maturity. Neither side of this is impressive

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Mel Lagon
Community Member
6 years ago

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sounds like a trump family member wants for nothing lmfao

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Adogcalledkitty
Community Member
6 years ago

This comment is hidden. Click here to view.

Yes, he's right and the customer was an ....hole. But is it really something that has to be shared with the whole world? Everyone has their own problems within their work but not everyone feels the need to let it know with complete strangers who can't do anything about it. Are people's lives really this boring?

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Sergio Bicerra Descalzi
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Lots of people, mainly designers, people with creative skills, are asked to work for free cause "is not that hard work" and that has to stop.

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Aunt Messy
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

It happens every day. Artists get that garbage, too. We get approached to "donate" pieces for "charity" events where our work will sell for hundreds of dollars. Sorry babe, I don't work for free. I'll let you BUY my work and donate it yourself.

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