Feminist Accuses English Language Of Being Sexist, Gets Brilliantly Schooled By Linguist
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It started off with a premise that, to be fair, deserves discussion and scrutiny. A Tumblr user, who refers to herself as ‘Feminist Chewbacca’ wanted to discover the root causes of patriarchal domination in society, and turned to the English language to investigate the inherent sexism it allegedly contains.
In these days of fake news and agenda pushing however, it has never been more important to check your facts. This is where Feminist Chewbacca came unstuck. Reblogging a post she had found on Visual Poetry, she had probably not counted on being fact-checked by an actual linguist. Her poorly chosen examples were deconstructed one by one, until she began to look rather basic, and a bit silly.
A couple of things to note here. Firstly, by introducing her post with the words: “Men fabricated the idea that they are the default sex to compensate for their biological inferiority and general superfluousness,” Feminist Chewbacca sets a militant tone that isn’t going to endear her to many people, and she needs to have rock-solid arguments to respond to the inevitable attacks on her position.
Secondly, it is of course by no means clear that this ‘linguist’ is indeed qualified or not, and his facts also deserved to be checked. After some cursory research I can gather that while some claims hold water, others are open to argument themselves. There is certainly more to the issue, and Feminist Chewbacca is right to shine a light on it. She just went about it in the wrong way.
So what to take from this sordid affair? Well, I guess it’s easy to pass off someone else’s arguments as your own, but at least maybe check if they are factually correct first. Also, if you begin from an extremist position and with fighting words, expect people to fight back. If they come armed with facts and you are just regurgitating opinions that suit your political outlook, you are just asking to be made to look stupid.
Scroll down to check out how it unfolded below, and let us know what you think in the comments!
Tumblr user ‘Feminist Chewbacca’ picked up artwork that resonated with her beliefs, that sexism is rooted in language
Image credits: Richard Tipping
But this linguist wasn’t having it, and wrote a detailed and qualified response
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Brilliant!!! Stay in your lane!! haha
Haha
Love..Stay in your lane...I am a 73 year old woman and am ashamed of the women of today. Any woman with a brain in her head knows that a woman is what has brought this world down by wanting to be everything but a "woman". A man will treat a woman like a queen if she treats him like a king. Women who want to do a man's job rather than be a homemaker and mother is really messed up. Also, the generations of women since the 60's are nothing but a bunch of misguided retards. They dress like a whore and then wonder why they are treated like one and want to cry rape. This is so sad. If you are truly a woman be who you are and proud of it. When women left the home and went out into the world to be like a man is the world's biggest problem. Misguided children, lazy husbands, and other problems exist because a woman does not want to be a woman and to do her part in society or in the home. I know this will really stir up a lot of shit but what the hell.
Boy are you old fashion and uneducated. We all should have moved out of the 1940's, yet here you are telling women we need to grovel at mans feet to make this a better world! Sorry I am 75 and totally disagree with your analogy. I have a wonderful young lady who helps me in my home and I am very Proud of her and many other young girls I see. Sure ever since time began there have been rotten women as well as man. you just need to rise above it.
Obvious troll is obvious.
I kind of agree with you except many women wanted to make their own choices, and were able to do so.
this person isn't real. old people don't use the word retard, nor do they go on about men being kings and women being queens. this is new language. probably someone in their 30s, they are the ones most likely to talk like this. i think it's a guy because of the whore/rape reference but a lot of women also hold the same misogynistic belief so i'm not sure on gender as the king/queens is usually what females say but everything else they are saying points to bitter male. detective signing off. :)
you are absolutely correct Connie Stone. its sad the lies women believe.
Wow, Connie. At least you got to say your piece before your ancient body dies, taking the last remaining neanderthal mind with it.
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Connie Stone- you are incredibly sexist against women! You would be happier married to a member of ISIS I think.
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Wow, what a load of sexist and offensive bullshit!! Please tell me how women who are unable to have children are supposed to "fulfil" thier so called roles or are we simply cast aside? You are an old enough hag to have been around during war time right? What was it that kept the economy going and the war effort running when all the men were off at war? Must have been elves as it couldn't have been decent women like you could it?! You are a disgrace to your country, your gender and all those who came before and after you to make this world a better place. I just hope to god you don't have and kids to fill with your bike vitriol and idiotic ideas of someone clearly brought up by a highly abusive father. In fact, if it weren't for you spreading your crap I would pity you!
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Thank you Connie Stone. So true.
Hahaha this is one of those times I failed to understand feminists and feminism. Can *S he also say *Her is derived from *His? Oh I just figured something out laughing about this. See, "haha" and "hehe" are used interchangeably in writing to signify laughter or some degree. That is because the sound we make when we laugh come in these two basic forms. According to Feminist Chewbacca, "hehe" is sexist so I suggest Feminists should refrain from using "hehe" and only use "haha" or start using "sheshe" or some other sound depending on what sound they make when they laugh. Oink oink oink :D
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thats sexist. stay in your lane is liek telling a woman to stay in slow lane.
i'm a feminist and i think she had it coming. one should do the proper research before posting something most of the planet can see or face the consequences. if only trump had stayed in his lane.
Feminist perspectives do not postulate that men are biologically inferior.
Indeed, that is bad feminism.
Uh, "good" feminist doesn't exist
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@Lynn all feminism is bad.
Sounds like a #NotAll
How so ? And I thought the topic was language not Biology ?
Yes, actually they do. Modern feminism teaches that mean are inherently beastly, oppressive savages rife with toxic masculinity. If you don't like it, maybe you should school your own feminist brethren.
oh yes they do see many feminist claim 1st wave feminism wich is the only feminism acceptable in a modern society 2nd wave feminism wich is clearly a man hating way of feminism and then we have now 3rd wave feminism wich clearly states men are inferior or at least the majority of 3rd wave feminism state such things if your 1st wave more power to you any other form of feminism is cancer
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Only that men are disgusting pigs.
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I've never heard of this rational feminism you talk about, where can I find this rare species?
Rational feminists exist all over. Every feminist on this site right now disagrees with this woman.
They're just scared of women. They think being violent in word or deed will make them look "manly, when in truth it just makes them look like toddlers.
Excellent schooling and very interesting information. It's funny that the Old French "femella" is current day's word for female in Catalan ("mascle" = male and "femella" = female).
Femella is Latin, not French.
Didn't you actually read what the linguist had to say about "femella"?
I meant "hence", not "thus", sorry for my bad English
Max, it is supposed to be Old French, not our current language, thus the similarity with Latin
I did, S. Heitmann. What point, exactly, were you trying to attempt to make?
And French comes fro latin duh
Many male commenters have erroneously concluded that this clapback proves the patriarchy doesn't exist. The patriarchy is real--the clapback points out only that you shouldn't fabricate evidence to support your view.
Of course patriarchy exists! Unfortunately it's most dumb people who have the most bullshit to say.
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I guess you're the dumbest of them all , then
Well "THE PATRIARCHY" as if there was some nebulous Illuminati-like organization doesn't exist, but "patriarchy" as a concept in society does exist.
No, this proves that the OP is dumb as a bag of rocks.
NO Patriarchy ISN’T REAL! Patriarchy was a theory put forward by early feminists to try and explain why things are the way they are but it’s just that a theory. Just think logically if Patriarchy was real then why would men force and teach boys that they are the ones who should do the work, why make them die in wars and pretty much get the shit end of the stick in society?!
Huh. Of course patriarchy isn't real, women are just paid less, judged for things you'd never judge a man for, and expected to just deal with it because of mere coincidence. Racism also isn't real and Donald Trump is totally the best diplomat, like, ever. ALSO: WW2 never happened, and Jesus is a white kid from Kansas who's really into Bad Religion.
What this show is that this isn't evidence of patriarchy. But on a closer inspection nothing is, quite seriously, not your "the devil" equivalent of it. Of course, there was a patriarchy, one where some men held the polis oriented administrative positions, while women held the home oriented ones.
Talking about our language being patriarchal, it has been argued that words in our language did not directly come to be what they appear ---- words associated with female did not just get formed from words that were basically male. However, history has a lot to say about gender and it has obviously been biased. Trough time there have been developing societies that have matured. There is a point at which they recognized bias, and abuse. This happened in their economics and government, and in their treatment of one another, and especially in the changes they made in their language. Perhaps grudgingly, or perhaps joyfully, but usually due to logic from the energy of those who are most affected. Again there is a point at which it becomes clear that titles, names, words, references, etc. whether intended or not---continue to present connotations of misrepresentation, disrespect, and gross inferiority. And it is more fitting for an evolved society to make changes in their language.
Sure it exists, in Middle-Eastern countries, especially in islamic ones. Only there.
Hey your still alive! I thought you died a long time ago! Lol!!! JK, love your name though.
If patriarchy means rule by fathers then with all the fathers not sticking around to help raise their children we could use more patriarchy
Go to the feminist run family law courts and see why exactly it is
Oh brother you must be real fun at parties.
Hell yeah the writer is. Ever seen your friend give and absolute verbal beat-down to someone who deserves it? It's hilarious and thoroughly entertaining.
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Eat me bitch.
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If you don't like with this, then simply create your own words or language which neutral or more matriarchy. ;)
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Please provide evidence. Her claims were all refuted, so additional evidence is needed.to prove the patriarchy exists.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.psychologytoday.com/blog/mining-the-headlines/200905/patriarchy-is-alive-and-well%3famp Just one article I found
English, as we know it, is a very young language. Please, dig deeper before making conclusions. I send my thanks to the linguist who took the time to explain and educate the internet nations.
Interesting. In my education classes we we never made fun of anyone. Perhaps this why I try to bolster peoples dignity when showing them a new perspective, while keeping my smugness over 'knowing things' in check. But, I could be wrong. Maybe I will try this much celebrated method of educating.
Please don't! There's nothing more appalling than a smug, self-righteous educator. This dude is possibly correct (I'm not going to fact-check him) but, man, does he come of as a complete and total a-hole.
Ever considered that sometimes enough is just enough and you reach a point where you want to vent it out?? Considering her tone and attitude, the "smugness" of the linguist is not a sin in this case, but a statement: there are people who know more than you, don't promote facts without verifying, or else it's going to hurt. You think if the answer were more politely it would prove the point as good to the intended receiver? I think not. Besides..."making fun" in class about certain social and human faults is a sure way for your students to remember certain things. I am beginning to think, with the way society is going today that soon irony and sarcasm will be outlawed :P You ppl should chill and laugh more.
Why do you assume it's a male?
When people start with a conclusion, and then fabricate evidence to support it, they deserve to be called out and embarrassed: anti-vaxxers, anti-GMO activists, flat-earthers, this woman, etc. They all need to be publicly shamed, or they'll never learn.
Jennifer, I wondered that too, because I assumed the response came from a woman. Maybe we missed something and it said a man replied? But maybe they just assumed.
I agree. He takes it a bit personally, but in some cases he's right to call out the ignorance.
Exactly. That's what makes it all nasty!
She's malicious, she get slack for being malicious. No need to show respect or care for someone who doesn't show it for anyone.
Like a boss. (Irregardless of the boss being male or female.)
It's 'regardless.' Irregardless isn't a word, FYI.
Irregardless is a double negative, by the way. Regardless means to be without regard, so if you add the negative prefix ir-, it changes the meaning to without without regard. I ran out of characters in my last post, so I had to add this little piece of tasty word porn on a separate comment. :)
It actually is a word.
Is irregardless a word? Technically, yes it is, but just because it is found in dictionaries that are used daily by millions of people worldwide doesn't make it proper English. Words like Conversate and Ain't appear in Merriam-Webster Online & the Oxford English Dictionary, but just because its in print doesn't make it deserving of anything but informal use. Words like those listed above are considered nonstandard words within the English language by those who compile the bits and pieces that make up the dialect we use while communicating daily. Nonstandard is just a fancy way of copping out by the writers, researchers, linguists, and others involved in the creation of the plethora of reference books that line the shelves of our local libraries & our homes, since they use that label for words that are used often but are no more than pieces of jargon, slang, and/or colloquialisms that are not used by educated non-native speakers of the language regularly.
Inception correction
The linguist might be correct, but can't we be more classy in making arguments? Why do we have to stoop to sounding superior? I love an argument that puts the facts out there without swearing. Of course, language changes over time and swearing is become commonplace and accepted, even among academicians, but I long for academic civility.
if a feminist can act superior with fake notions of language, why can't a reasonable person act superior with facts and evidence?
Neither the woman nor the man should act superior towards each other! That's the problem! People should be able to have their ego under control, not otherwise :)
Thank you for saying this! I love language and facts and learning, but when he is so smug and self-righteous it really takes the fun out of learning new information. "Clapbacks," or whatever this is, is not the way forward. It is unnecessarily rude. I hope this guy is a student and not a professor who shames students about what they don't know or what they think they know.
FFS give it a rest. Hate in all forms does not need to be placated or entertained. Whether it's racism, misogyny, misandry, homophobia, anti-semitism, islamophobia etc. it should be immediately shut down with no quarter given. We don't need to be polite to ignorant and hateful people regardless of their ideology.
Oh no this beyotch you needed this clap back. And don't be such a snowflake boohoo shaming students God you're pathetic
Why be classy to the woman writing such an ignorant comment?
Well done! I just wish to add that in Latin the word "persona", besides person (deriving as said from Etruscan phersu), also meant "mask". "Personam tragicam forte vulpes viderat; quam postquam huc illuc semel atque iterum verterat, 'O quanta species' inquit 'cerebrum non habet.'"... Gaio Giulio Fedro, a Roman writer and fabulist (20/15 b.C. ca. – 51 a.C. ca.) A give a very rough translation: Casually a fox found a theatrical mask. After having turned it over and over the fox observed: what a magnificent appearance indeed, but it has no brain... By the way.
I mean, the fact that the word "man" use to mean "human" - says something about how we view gender. We are socialized into understanding humans as men and women only as secondary, and of course this is reflected in how language has evolved. So no, languages are not in themselves sexist - but they are reflections of patriarchal structures that sees men and women differently. I recommend Simone de Beauvoirs groundbreaking feminist theory for those who want to learn more ;)
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I completely disagree. Men are considered as disposable that they are here to protect and to always do for women. Just look at the past boys were raised and taught they must always provide even die in wars to protect and they must work work work to make sure Woman has it all. And you know it’s true. Men had to work and work back then was actual manual work, working in coal mines and building railroads and buildings etc. Men made the money and most all went to her. “Happy wife happy life”. It’s like feminists ignore or just make sure to see things from one point of view. All you have to do is look around and you see the truth. Women can force men to be like a slave (woman gets pregnant and she has choices whereas a mans future will depend on what she decides to do, to have the baby or not and no where does a male have such power over another. If a man doesn’t want to be a father Feminists just say “well you shouldn’t have had sex” whereas you can’t tell that to a woman)!
Jo Smith - out if everything I said you just conclude that I must be a virgin. I get it how dare I disagree with your point of view and to top it off how dare I actually provide examples that puts my view points into context. Anyway Jo Smith you just showed how educated you are by instead of providing arguments to my facts you just try to call me names like some kid. Good luck in your narrow views.
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Jeez Mr. Hollywood. I'm sorry you've never been laid. But don't take your complete assholishness out on the women who obviously don't (and shouldn't) want to have anything to do with you.
I actually found this very informative. Good read.
Too bad he reveals himself as an MRA freak at the end of his little screed. I'm not saying he's wrong, but someone can be right and still be a whiny jackass.
So it's ok to say men are biologically inferior, but not ok to suggest that said statement is misandrist?
It's called cherry picking what you do criticize about and leave out what doesn't support your view. People who do that are just a bad as the girl in this post.
Women live longer, statistically, then men, because men die at a precipitous rate and early age in war, in far greater numbers than women. So our average lifespan is shorter. Misandrist is a word in the English language that has a real meaning. Stop trying to skew fact to support your points. If they are well enough thought out, you shouldn't need to do that. Don't denigrate a language because you disagree with a word.
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If you look at facts, men ARE physically inferior in a lot of ways. Women live longer, and are healthier with it. This has NOTHING to do with risk taking behaviour (I raced cars for a living, after all), and everything to do with general biology. ... Women also seem to maintain better emotional equilibrium through out our lives, which probably contributes to longer life spans. ... You think you're "better" because you have bigger muscles and can reach the top shelf? Knock yourself out. I'll be here long after you've kicked the bucket. ... And the word "misandrist" is associated with little MRA bois who are nothing more than ticky tacky little bigots who ought to be sent to their rooms, NOT taken seriously in any way.
I thought they were defensive in an odd way, but I don't think it seemed MRA-like.
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It was. They have certain usages and speech patterns that give them away, even when they think they're being clever about it.
Aunt Messy it sure seems you have an unhealthy hatred for men seeing as how all you did was try and point out how bad men are physically and biologically. You need to check it out because such hatred isn’t good. And you make a point to say that men who complain should just go to their room and not be taken seriously and I wonder if that is because you don’t want to face the truth that maybe the men who are complaining about sexism actually have something to say but since they don’t follow your way of thinking you just want them to shut up. And the whole hatred with men living less than women: how would you feel if it were reversed I bet you’d use that as “proof” how bad women have it but since it’s bad for the male gender you just laugh it off. You are exactly the definition of what a misandrist is.
once again a valid and factually proven explanation is dismissed because the one making the argument is male and an MRA, fuck you and your blatant misandry mate!
Aunt Messy: a number of your "men are inferior" items can easily be chalked up to culture. Actually, toxic masculinity, specifically. It isn't correct to reference these as examples of women being superior in "general biological" ways. Women and men are a lot more alike than not, actually. Culture is what does the biggest amount of division (not even sexuality).
He’s wrong in more than quite a few ways, one of them being that the word “femella” is Latin and not French.
Right?! I hope he's a student and not a linguist professor, because he's incredibly smug and self-righteous. No one needs to make fun of the uneducated. You can school people and not be a dick about it.
Agreed except she wasn't uneducated. She pretended that she was. So she's uneducated and a fraud. This first part isn't really a crime though. But in this case she deserved a kinda burn if you ask me. If she was wondering about it and got talked to like that I agree. Then he's a bastard. But let's not conveniently miss her part in this story.
wasn;'t just uneducated I meant*
Yet she is allowed to be a bitch about her “opinion”? That makes no sense.
Why not make fun of people who claim knowledge they don't have? They deserve it.
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Meh, he's just another jerk. They're a dime-a-dozen. And she IS an idiot. I've found that most people are pretty stupid.
No the skank who originally postal Hermione feminist bullshit is the whiny jackass
You say there are MRA like patterns of his speech. Point to a few because I have seen MRAs talk enough to identify some of their patterns and with the exception of the word "misandry" which is an actual word, used appropriately here (for once) I don't see any of them in this.
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Come on, it's the internet, we argue, insult, fight, humiliate--it's all part of it. And when a cocky and sexist person asserts completely false information, it's ok to be a bit of an ass back.
I personally always think it's best to take the high road.
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Aren't you special, your highness.
Let me guess: rather than responding, she blocked him, right?
That's what people do when they know they can't win because they know they are wrong. Happens here too. It's called the voting system. Instead of replying and using words. People use votes to hide comments that don't align with their views. It's a really bad system and kind of censoring. It removes a lot of really interesting views and comments. A shame. Then we are left with very few perspectives. So far for freedom of speech here.
Indeed. Once your comment is voted down, you can't even reply to it anymore, which is bullshit, because often it'll get voted down simply because you might have not been the most eloquent person and someone misunderstood you - then causing everybody else afterwards to do the same. And you're not even allowed to clarify anything because no more replying to you.
People don't use votes to purposely hide comments it's just how the boards work, I do however agree that it's a bad system, if a comment needs to be removed then there should be a report button rather than a 5 dislikes and you're out system, voting up/down should really only be used to show how many people agree or disagree with a comment not if it should appear or not.
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I Always read hidden comments. They're almost never interesting. They're usually sexist, often unnecessarily hostile, frequently ignorant, or just plain dumb.
I'm blocked from The Mary Sue from exactly the same reason. It's scary how these SJW's absolutely abhor the free exchange of ideas. They will not even allow anything don't like to enter into the "discussion" no matter how civil you bring forth your ideas.
Learned something on BoredPanda. Outstanding.
The linguistic etymology of those particular words are pretty well documented and we covered that in high school English. English, like most languages, is a growing and twisted history that often come from unrelated root words. I was thinking of historical mangle of things... "Let's go, it will be gay!" (1918) = "Its effin sick dog, no joke!" (2018)
Or, "You don't have to be happy to be gay!" (Laugh-In, Goldie Hawn)
Even if it wasn’t the correct way. She’s still right about the fact that we live in a very patriarchal and misogynistic society. Words can be used against women in many ways.
Is she also right about men's "biologic inferiority"? Or can we just agree that that post was indeed misandric and toxic?
You probably got a downvote from Blugeagua. Not because it's an inappropriate comment. But because she doesn't agree. That's how voting works here. I countered it for you. And I agree.
Why can't you just say she's was really dumb? Because that's what this post is mostly about. Are you unable to criticize women the same as men? Sounds kinda misandry. It wasn't "not the correct way" It was a really stupid act because she could have done many things. Could have asked. Hey where does he and she words come from? What are their relations? Or just say I don't know. Instead she made up a retarded fantasy story based on NO research. NO questions. Nothing. So stop playing this down. Many women say many smart things. But this was just really really dumb. Also the inferiority comment. Your comment is like commenting about a maffia mass murder article and saying things like. Well that wasnt correct. But they are right for providing for their family!! See how stupid this sounds?
Captain Planet: I am not criticizing your essential position but please please don't use the word 'retarded' and stupid/ignorant as synonyms. Too many people truly are harmed by the careless use of that word. Thanks for at least thinking about it...
thats why more women are in universities than men and more men homeless than women and more men commit suicide than women and men die earlier and men are more likely to be unemployed cuz of patriarchy weird cuz patriarchy is meant to make live easier for men how do you explain that pls i m seriously asking
Blah blah blah. You poor victim. You must love it
Please provide factual examples of how women are harmed by the English language. The linguist already proved the most common examples to be false, so we're gonna need something more than a vague assertion that "words can be used" in this way.
@Lexi, Yes but "Dick" is also used to mean, someone that's inconsiderate as well as a word for male genitalia. Genitalia in general is used as insults, asshole(inconsiderate), cunt(inconsiderate), tit(stupid), cock(stupid+inconsiderate) There are no doubt more.
Like the word p*ssy is used to mean weak as well as a word for female genetalia, also b*tch for a female dog and a mean person, most often used towards women. Further calling a man a girl is synonymous with calling them weak. If you need more examples let me know.
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Another man hater
You're fucking pathetic, Paul.
I wonder if she thinks only English speaking places have sexism? Or only the English language exists...? Or matters...?
Feminists aren't women who hate men. They can be any gender, and all they want is for equality for everyone. More people need to understand
Not this one. She very specifically states in no uncertain terms that men are inferior. "...to compensate for their biological inferiority...". She's a misandrist cut and dried.
This guy knows some things!
*Slow clap* Masterfully done, Sir.
What a burn!
Yep. English isn't a sexist language at all. If anything, it is a mongrel language with Celtic, German, Scandinavian, and Roman influences all mixed up in such a messy way that spelling and pronunciation are completely unrelated and make no sense at all. A German word with an 'a' in it, is always pronounced the same. In English, words with an 'a' can sound completely different, like 'saw', 'ran', 'raft', or 'hate'. Oh, yes there is even more confusion when you put words with a 'u', who also sound like 'a' in the mix, like 'sun'. Crazy.
I think many words have gained sexist meanings though.
Usage is usually the key.
This guy though...... He knows his shit!
Sohail Kumar good
Sohail Kumar haha
Sohail Kumar good
Just a typical tumblrina.
I bet that in the time-honoured tradition, she engaged in a respectful conversation with him and admitted she'd been wrong. :D
I don't know why, it made me think of the "Wo man" poem in, So I married an Axe Murdered. In case you want to check it out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlkoQ4bUE5k
I love that movie and Mike Myers is brilliant in it!
The movie is underrated. The dad character he plays is great. The Irish accent and constantly making fun of "head"...I gotta go back and watch it now
I'd heard about the other words but had no idea people were getting offended by 'person'! That's beyond ridiculous! I want to marry this linguist.
Woah, slow down there. Maybe you should meet the guy first...
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Are you kidding? People are offended at the slightest things anymore. This just proves the point
Very interesting. Unfortunately for me, I'll forget every word of it within the next thirty minutes.
As a graduate geochemistry/geology student this amazes me as I am always trying to learn new things, and I love it when someone gets schooled because they choose to oversimplify a system that is much more complicated, and so very much not the system they believed it to be to begin with. Simply spectacular. Oh, and wait, "Stay in your lane..." fantastic.
I think he's a bigger asshole than she is.
i hate what she said to begin with, "men fabricated the idea due to their inferiority and general superfluous". As a feminist myself i hate people like her who give a bad name to it. The definition of feminism is equal rights to both men and women. To even the playing field she should work on empowering women not degrading men because in doing so she is no better - in fact worse than the men who degrade women as she hides behind the facade of doing the right thing. Bravo to the linguist
She's definitely not helping the cause.
I hate people like her too
He is a cunning linguist!!!
We might not all be linguists, but we should constantly remind ourselves we don't know it all!
So basically, English is made up from other languages.
It's also a rotten language to learn. My husband used to volunteer teaching ESL, and said his students were perpetually frustrated because there don't seem to be any real rules, and the rules that exist are completely counterintuitive.
As someone whose mother tongue is gender neutral I always laughted on these people. Tought it was always funny seeing their head became red when they tryied to apply their theories to us.
And that's why our language rules :D
Dumbasses calling themselves feminists like this lady just discredit feminism by such nonsense and ignorance. I am really sad how this ideology which originally changed world into much better place for women evolved into total bullshit at some point.
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It hasn't evolved into total bullshit. It's just that some people who suck at critical thinking and communication have chosen to promote themselves as being members of a movement that they are harming by association.
My gosh I've so much to say to the linguist guy who clearly seemed like he got the first opportunity to unleash his superpower of....word origins! By no means am I a super feminist to go about defending the lady who got roasted, by I DO remember asking my Mamma when I was very young about 'early woman' (Coz she used to tell me about early man being a collective term for men AND women) . At that point I remember feeling "so unfair!" ... so, maybe I don't agree with the root words being anti feminist, but I DO agree that colloquially, language seems a tad gender biased.
I totally agree! I think with the way words have developed it has begun to sound somewhat sexist, though I get that wasn't the orgins.
Wow, I never knew that!
I appreciate his advanced knowledge of etymology and linguistics but that doesn't change the fact that a patriarchal society decided and changed those words to the meanings that they carry today. Dropping stems and altering words based on other etymologies, that he admits to not understanding, may in fact have some patriarchal undertones. Besides, if anyone wants to alter language to empower themselves, that is completely their decision. Americans did that with the changing of pronunciation of words like garage and the spelling of gray and color, etc.
Patriarchal society is fine if it just does stuff like change language
I think you're seeing what you want to see.
You're point is a fair one. We just don't really know all the social politics that crafted the changes of these words to the degree that we can be certain of the intent behind the changes. We can be fairly clear about the shitty language men use to mock the masculinity of other men by feminizing them, but the many hundreds of years and mixed populations that changed language to the degree this guy is schooling Feminist Chewbaca on is not within the scope of a few generations and it not clearly documented in terms of cause. Attitudes and dominance do shape the use of language, but the larger changes happen over a greater span of time than, say, someone trying to alter language to empower themselves or one single cultural movement.
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My brother. Take the stick out of your ass maybe just for like 5 minutes
Excellent! Plus, I love learning the origins of the words.
@boredpanda, please correct the above images: - visual-poetry posted the photo - mitosisisyourtosis is the 'feminist' you were referring to - rhysiare is the 'linguist' you were refering to This is the never ending chain on tumblr - https://dedalvs.tumblr.com/post/141948202482/madmaudlingoes-langsandlit
Good learning opportunity. Too bad this person had to be a snide asshole about it. Can we just TRY to take the personal insults out of it? Ugh.
Well done!
Love that you took the time to get the right info out there and not to mention fantastic username mitosisisyourtosis.
Roasted!
Another reasonable response I found and love https://xkcd.com/1562/ (no I in vowels)
People like her are what drive people to thinking feminists are idiots, when that is anything but true.
Dang I hope that she saw this
Just refer to all people as "he", possessive form "her". Problem solved.
Why the hell do misandrists call themselves feminists? Man hating is as anti-feminist as woman-hating!
Can we finally draw a line and stop calling women like that "femists" and call their by their real name, which is misandrist? English is LITERALLY a genderfree language, because it lost the grammatical gender after Middle English. I'm sick and tired of feminazis. As the misandrists they are, they are exactly on the same level as all the misogynists out there.
Actually, they're not. You are equivocating. Sexism is weighted such that, institutionally, men have WAY more power and influence.
Lol. I think this is pointless. It is like patiently telling your dog that the mailman is not going to kill us all. He will listen, wag his tail, and then tomorrow he will bark all over again. Actually, this is a bad analogy because the feminist will not listen, nor wag her tail, but will definitely continue to bark.
She is not a feminist...she is a misandrist as well as a moron.
love this !!! :)
theres actually a great podcast on the history of the English language called The History of the English Language. I'm only on episode 7 but this dude's argument is pretty spot on (according to the podcast)
There is a great podcast on the history of the English language called the History of the English Language. I am only on episode 7 but this dude is pretty spot on (according to the podcast)
Whoo!!!
I read the article and I read many of the comments. I think the middle ground comes from the feeling given by the words in a mysogynistic society. We have made some progress, but have a ways to go. The original meaning and origin of a word may not have much relation to the current connotation. I have noticed with racial groups too. The group is identified by a label. The group is subject to prejudice and belittling. The label then picks up the meaning promoted by the prejudice and belittling. If the label is changed, it does not change the denigrated attitude to the group. The new label usually picks up the same negative connotation as the old label. So while the original poster is incorrect about the origin of the words, the feeling of less than remains and the similarities feel like a deliberate put down. She is expressing her hurt about the situation, maybe not in a way that is clear to others or gathers empathy, but carries an underlying message about her pain.
As a linguistic myself, I love this!
*linguist
Thank you!
Loved this - certainly puts things in perspective. Please engage your brain before commenting, it always helps.
THANK YOU for posting this one. I am an old school feminist, and get sooo embarrassed by these modern feminazis.
Genesis 1:27 God created man… male and female He created them. Genesis 5:2 Male and female he created them, and he blessed them and named them Man when they were created.
Not quite. Those looks like English words, not ancient Hebrew.
Hilarious how people use holy books as historical evidence...
Can I just say that she isn't a feminist. At the start she spoke about men's inferiority towards women, a feminist believes, and potentially preaches the EQUALITY between men and women. They don't get annoyed about stupid little things like all crossing lights are men, they accept that they are people. A feminist gets annoyed when a man isn't allowed to hit a women but the other way round is fine. That's not equality. A feminist gets annoyed when women are bought and sold like possessions. These are true examples of inequality. She has the wrong idea. If you don't believe me then look it up. And we're not all crazy, its people like her who aren't real feminists that come out and give us a bad name. Xx
Using the failed logic of the tumblr feminist, you could just as easily say that all masculine words were derived from the feminine versions. But, as has been clearly demonstrated, logic was not present in the initial post.
does she realise chewie is a male?
Who knows whats under that hair !
amazing bravo
As a logophile myself, I have a new hero.
I suspect the feminists screamed "mansplaining biggot" from behind her screen at home and her IQ remained the same as before, smaller than a plant.
Thank your to the school-er (and scholar) I learnt the word proselytise which I hadn't heard of before, and I intend to use against militant Veganist I have no issue with Vegans, so long as they leave me to my food decisions
The stronger a person feels about a particular perspective or ideology the harder it is to be confronted by the absolute opposite of it. As a vegan myself, I try to gently promote the ideologies of kindness and respect toward all animals, without trying to assault people who haven't come to the same determination themselves. I wasn't always vegan. Just like it annoys me when adults bash teens (don't they remember being bashed by adults when they were teens???), I won't abuse someone for being something I myself had been. It pisses me off when vegans act like dicks. It hurts everyone.
I'm an omnivore but I respect u
Sounds like she certainly is a cunning linguist🤔
Not even remotely. How is your pun even relevant?
That it shows yo have zero sense of humour?
It seems to me that some people like this linguist are grasping at straws to avoid seeing their own responsibilities to humanity as a whole. Men can be free of feminism when they look at themselves and support women as human beings. All the rest is details.
OH SNAP!!!
Yeah!
She got 'taken to the woodshed' most eloquently!
I really appreciate the time that the responding author took to counter each point, rather than simply labeling the blogger as ignorant and being done with it. It would have also been nice if the responding author - who appears likely has the knowledge to do this - provided the blogger with some facts that may provide a stronger basis for her argument, presuming they exist.
That guy deserves the highest of fives!
and this is just for ENGLISH!!! in french: woman = femme. man=homme. so nothing to be crazy about
I would bet “this” person will search until they literally pass out attempting to find “something” to justify their paranoia!
men hater don't want explication. they just want to bash men. like anti-vaxxer don't want explication. They're all too stubborn
You killed her in 5 different languages
PART 2 of 2: One would think that someone so passionate about linguistics and etymology would have a gentler, more mature approach. But even so, if this linguist can’t find it within her/himself to be kind, they could at least not butcher the english language while trying to prove what a linguistic expert they are. Among my favorites were: “…who think like you along these lines and for good reason, because you are wholly ignorant…” Not only is the above sentence painfully redundant; it also says the same thing twice! And I don’t even have time to go into, all, the, misplaced, commas, and general molestation of quotation marks and grammar. The one redeeming factor in this linguist’s post is the on-line handle: "mitosisisyourtosis." It took me a while to figure it out, but “my tosis is your tosis” is pretty great. That one redeeming gem forced me to raise this sad linguist’s grade from an F to a C minus. mary-milkt...292c1b.jpg
PART 1 of 2: The response written by this "linguist" is so chock full o' grammatical errors, spelling errors, incorrect punctuation and just plain REALLY BAD WRITING that I find it hard to take her/him seriously. The thing that bothers me the most, though, is the punitive, snarky, immature tone of his/her rebuttal. It's hard to know when this linguist says "In my linguistics class in undergrad, we actually made fun of people…” if s/he is a professor, or a student. Either way, it’s sad. If this person is an educator who openly admits to encouraging his/her students to “make fun of people” then it’s no mystery why there’s a bullying epidemic in our schools. And if this linguist is referring to a time when s/he was an undergrad student, it’s still pretty sad that they chose to pass their time sitting around making FUN of people who were simply ignorant or misguided about certain areas of the english language. How about being KIND (or at least civil) when correcting others? IMG_1613-2...89ea64.jpg
Well done!
Holy crap, Mr. Hollywood is exactly right! Men are taught from the time they are like boys to break themselves for women. Provide, fight, support, live, love, die! That's it bitches, ALL OF YOU, get your asses I'm the kitchen and make me 50 million sammiches!
For a linguist, this guy's writing is pretty sloppy (just assuming it's a guy). In addition, though he was successful in demonstrating (though without citing any actual sources beyond his own linguistic accumen) that the original posters argument was flawed and based on a very superficial knowledge of the English language, he was not successful at all in debunking the claim that patriarchal bias is built into English and other languages. In fact, there is even more to support that claim in the text than in the original poster's short blurb. Example: He/She When an entire population is divided in terms of those who are "here" (he) vs "there" (she), those described as "here" are clearly dominant and designating those "there" (she) as the "other." The linguist continually points out—while being apparently ignorant of the significance—instances where the language is similarly divided along gender lines to favor a dominant male gender. Whether this division was done by design or was....
(2of2).....Whether this division was done by design or was a more evolutionary result of an already male dominant society is not clear from the text but clearly the separation and bias is there, regardless of our dear linguists arrogant and unsupported insistance that it is not. While the original poster that our linguist is responding to seems to have gotten the linguistic mechanics wrong, their point remains valid and is, in fact, supported in many ways by the information our dear linguist has provided. It just goes to show that citing a lot of scholarly sounding information does not make you right or justify making unsupported claims. Nice try Mr. Linguist.
It's as if some internet commenters think that everything was just thought up in the last few centuries or so. They never consider that words are thousands of year old. Kinda like with pronouns.
what denigrating nasty people.
he was then promptly squelched and blocked, and his comment deleted. A new tweet went up simply stating that "her post offended a man so much she had to block him because he was so rude"
The only thing worse than being wrong, even ignorant, is being right but also being an arrogant condescending A$$hole. This person had the opportunity to teach, to share knowledge that many people may not have been aware of...but instead just alienates and proves that it is possible to be intelligent (at least about one subject) but totally clueless in other ways that are more important. EQ trumps IQ...look it up while you are cruising in your own, rude, lane.
He still was taking the higher ground
I'm not a feminist, but to play devil's advocate here... Even if the historical roots of the words, like "person" and "son" have nothing to do with each other, she could be saying the way language is now is a problem. Because the way the words exist now give that impression, even if false.
I am going to throw one more stick in the fire: Chairman, fireman, etc etc. came from the latin "manibus" and later french "Main" which meant hand : The hand of the chair, the hand of the fire - the person who controlled the chair, fire etc., etc. It was meant to be gender neutral. We could have just gone back to using the french "main" to make it so again. People do not know about their own language...
Do linguists study grammar and punctuation?
A “simpleton’s way of deduction. This feminist is educationally “LAZY”, and stuck in the victim hood/me too/millennial mindset. Feminism has destroyed the West. Sweden (feminist ruled), is virtually dead
So it's not blurred in the eyes of some?
Shame a linguist said "like you are doing off of." You'd think a linguist writing in English could at least speak it. Nonetheless, nice roast.
here's the original post on tumblr: http://rhysiare.tumblr.com/post/138012970426/mitosisisyourtosis-visual-poetry and some more discussion: http://tumblinguistics.tumblr.com/post/142090790851/smallwanderer218-dedalvs-madmaudlingoes Would it have hurt your author to credit where they took this from? It's a 10-second google search ....
The complainant must belong to one of those "Burning Bra Movements". One cannot simply launch into a tirade without doing your homework.
His Tory to Her story then haha
At least he wasn't a condescending prick about it. Oh, wait...
Hmmmph, I guess she heard that!
I frikkin hate Feminazis. The idea that anyone would think that idiots like this speak for me makes me sick. I don't need a "movement" to have my back to be a strong woman. I can do that quite nicely all by myself, and I don't have to vilify men to do it.
He could have just explained. Most people would be ignorant of that. He doesn't have to gloat so much about having known it. The first three paragraphs are about how embarrassed she should be. Just get to the point.
Interesting use of pronouns in this article... Nothing that I read would indicate that Feminist Chewbacca was 'she' or that mitosisisyouryourtosis was a 'he' and yet these were the pronouns used without any sense of irony when discussing how a feminist had been 'schooled'
I think that the linguist could be more polite and be above this whole "feminism/masculinism" scenario. Clearly, the main reason for using his skills wasn't to correct the woman but to mock her and humiliate her to show his superior masculinity over her. BUT the woman was calling for it so, who can you blame? BTW That last sentence of the linguist really got me laughing hard. "I will school the everloving hell out of you, STAY IN YOUR LANE." :D :D :D Masculinism level over 9999 :D I think both of these characters may have experienced some bad things from the opposite sexes, but is this really the way to cure it? Maybe temporary relief, but THE EGO is always hungry. KEEP YOUR EGO IN LINE INSTEAD. The lesson has been learned and I hope that the majority of the people watching this case didn't choose any side of those two people and could see through this feminism/masculinism sh*t. Please, stop fighting each other and stop proving what doesn't even exist..... let's have a harmony :) <3
I think that the linguist could be more polite and be above this whole "feminism/masculinism" scenario. Clearly, the main reason for using his skills wasn't to correct the woman but to mock her and humiliate her to show his superior masculinity over her. BUT the woman was calling for it so, who can you blame? BTW That last sentence of the linguist really got me laughing hard. "I will school the everloving hell out of you, STAY IN YOUR LANE." :D :D :D Masculinism level 9999 :D I think both of these characters may have experienced some bad things from the opposite sexes, but is this really the way to cure it? Maybe temporary relief, but THE EGO is always hungry. KEEP YOUR EGO IN LINE INSTEAD. The lesson has been learned and I hope that the majority of the people watching this case didn't choose any side of those two people and could see through this feminism/masculinism sh*t. Please, stop fighting each other and stop proving what doesn't even exist..... let's have a harmony :) <3
Research, research, research. Or .. get schooled by those that have. ANY school will teach you that before graduation. She must have forgotten is all. shiesh.
feminist in the west = blame natural developements of language is patriarchal and destructive to women feminism in muslim countries = take off your hijab even if it means getting tortured and raped and often even killed i wonder where feminism is needed in countries like uk where the prime minister is a women or in muslim countries where 30%of the women are genital mutilated and in all sharia ruled countries have exactly half the rights a man does
Someone should check their grammar before an all out language attack. While very informative and enlightening, this article has several typos. Signed, an artist.
A certain person should check their grammar before an all out language attack. There are several typos in this article. Signed, an artist.
And what language is not? Pointless to complain about the language. You should be more focused on how people use it.
While I agree with the writer's comments I must take issue with his/her atrocious grammar. For instance, as a linguist, one would assume the writer would avoid tautology, e.g. .....conspiratorial thinking like you are doing off of. (end of point four) I realise I'm being pedantic but as a lover of the English language I hate to see it misused especially by someone purporting (late Middle English (in the sense ‘express, signify’): from Old French purporter, from medieval Latin proportare, from Latin pro- ‘forth’ + portare ‘carry, bear’. The sense ‘appear to be’ dates from the late 18th century) to be an expert.
Lol. I think this is pointless. It is like patiently telling your dog that the mailman is not going to kill us all. He will listen, wag his tail, and then tomorrow he will bark all over again. Actually, this is a bad analogy because the feminist will not listen, nor wag her tail, but will definitely continue to bark.
So basically she complained about sexism but at the same time she said that men "compensate for their biological inferiority and general superfluousness"...
Oh my god. . . this was interesting enough to perk up even the most bored panda.
This linguist is using 'Proto-Indo-European,' a language that is basically made up by linguists to theorize about what earlier languages may have sounded like, to debase a significant part of this feminists argument which DOES happen to be true, which is that woman and human are derived from the word 'man'. In doing so he is being disingenuous and sexist, trying to shut down someone who is pointing out a very true fact about most languages, which is that they are sexist often at their base. The simple use of 'man' and 'he' as base pronouns in texts about general people is an strong indicator of this. No one should have to think twice about whether the English language is quite often sexist in use.
Ur being sarcastic right?
Talk about playing semantics...
"She" derived from 'that/there' and "he" derived from 'this/here'... But it's TOTALLY NOT MALE-CENTERED AT ALL! And "man" used to just mean "human"... while "wifman" meant female human and "werman" meant male human. Then through the evolution of language "wif-" became "wo-" but for REASONS UNKNOWN BUT TOTALLY DEFINITELY NOT PATRIARCHY "wer-" was dropped and "man" somehow mysteriously became 'male' and was synonymous with human.
....and here, on this platter is your ass!
They both sound like absolute jerks. I'll agree to a certain extent with the original poster's second paragraph that it is a patriarchal language, but her first paragraph is so combative and patronizing (inserting herself into that role that she disparages) that it absolutely begs to be challenged. That said, the respondent's post is equally smug, combative, and diminutive, also begging to be challenged. 1) the fact that "He" comes from "this/here" and "She" comes from "that/there" VERY much gives credence to the argument that the masculine perspective is the central/dominant/default first-person ideology. 2) "Man" dropping its "were" (for unknown reasons) again shows that culture simply accepted the masculine as default without question, because of patriarchal society. 3) The lack of "any direct correlation" why the two word would morph into a masculine progenitor-based term again blindly glosses the larger social structure in which it happened.
In the end, the original poster is largely correct that our language does reinforce a patriarchal society. But she's wrong that it was didn't develop naturally, in the sense that culture and language evolved together over time from the same stimuli. There was no intention behind crafting the terms to make up for "biological inferiority" or "general superfluousness," a weak argument that really deserves more of a biological lesson in the Darwinian necessity of both sexes than a linguistic response simply baiting her.
Using an argument that is poorly thought of, and is making the males of the society look bad is not Feminism. The patriarchal nature of society is bad, not the males. This article is misleading as it attributes “feminism” to an act that is otherwise not striving for equity of genders. i suggest that we all (including anyone who sees this) have a better understanding of what feminism is.
(To reiterate) More fundamentally...If men have been able to so totally dominate women for countless millennia that they have forced women to accept derivative pronouns when speaking of themselves, doesn't that fact in itself demonstrate the superiority of males?
More fundamentally...if men have been able to so utterly dominate women for countless millenia that we can force them to accept derivative pronouns, doesn't that fact itself kinda demonstrate male superiority?
By the way the credits on this are wrong. Visual-Poetry is just a tumblr that posts pictures of cool stuff, mitosisyourtosis is the person that said the stupid thing about partriarchy. You can see it here: http://www.pomofo.com/article/feminist-called-out-english-language-being-sexist rhysiare is the user that wrote the linguistics thing, and they aren't even credited in this post. Who wrote this article?
Just an observation, but doesn’t he prove her right with the first one? If he meant here/this and she there/that, it’s using ‘he’ as the rule and ‘she’ is measured against that. It’s othering 101.
Somebody had an opinion, and somebody had facts. One of those is worth something.
...or maybe neither?
"Wer-" began to disappear in the late 13th Century - it is highly likely this was subconsciously part of that period's post-war crackdown on women starting to own things, which had taken an uptick during the early 13th Century and appeared to be developing into a trend.
Just someone else looking for their 15 fkn minutes. Hey ladies who did god make first? Yeah, man, then how did he make a wo-man? A man's rib. LOL, now stop being so damn stupid and find something important to do in your life. You got that Gal? LOL
I love this post more than chocolate.
People have decent points to make sometimes but then many go overboard and overanalyze and blow away potential allies in their struggles.
Oml this is me
Her chart makes as much sense as forming the word SHIT out of SOMEONE HIT the ball.
She would have to want to be schooled, first! In German the worn for "one", as in 'one person is 'man' as in 'one should consider...' "man soll..." and it has NOTHING to do with sex. It is a SEXLESS pronoun. Maybe the lady forgot that she was formed from sperm and eggs....not dropped to earth by Isis or Osiris.
I'm going off on a tangent now.....the really sexist word is vagina. Why? Because it's a euphemism - it's the Latin for sword sheath. So the word vagina defines female genitalia purely in terms of it being something for a man to put his mighty sword in. The C word is infinitely preferable - it derives from the word for triangle.
This is all quite interesting and valid. Thing is, the use for vagina that you're referencing is so old, and so unknown, that men and women don't ever use it that way. Men tell other men they have manginas when mocking their masculinity. Why? Because they think that giving female attributes to a male is a cutting way to demean their masculinity. They're thinking of vagina as entirely female; not thinking of the word's etymology.
It also annoys me when people say 'history' has anything to do with 'his' and then try to change it to 'herstory'. It actually comes from the ancient Greek 'istoria - the apostrophe at the beginning is a rough breath sound vaguely equivalent to an h, and it has nothing to do with the ancient greek masculine genitive, 'ou
People actually do this ?
Sounds like a lot of hysterics over nothing
But see how easy is to accuse and seduce, and how hard and long one has to work to get to the truth...
I find his hypothesis equally weak. He leaves several up to "coincidence" without fully exploring or understanding it. As well the hypothesis of it could be argued the male aspect of self reflection of importance being "here" and "there" being the secondary version. Certainly the english language was created from a male point of view as the latin derivatives of French, Spanish and Italian share an equal male/female base and importance. Co-incident is a word often used haphazardly. It means an incident that happens alongside another having value and purpose. It gives no justification that it was a mistake as he is suggesting. Do I think he roasted her? No, I feel they are equally careless in their assessments and he drops off when it comes to the hows or whys of the reasoning of the English language actually choosing the final version.
Apparently this linguist's explanation is flawed in some ways, according to some other linguists. https://www.tumblr.com/dashboard/blog/mitosisisyourtosis/170951112628
As a graduate of a B.A. in Linguistics, I would say his arguments make sense. The word "masle" would be VERY Old French, like around the time William the Conqueror invaded England and the Middle Age. There were no accents in French at that time, and words like "island" in English probably date from that period. Isle became "ïle" later in French. On a somewhat different angle, I came across the English word "coward" being interpreted in novels set in early 19th Century England to mean "cow-hearted". because people thought cows were naturally cowards. Nothing of the sort. The word "coward" comes from the Old French word "couard" which became phonetically assimilated.
This writer is a linguist? Seriously? I see abysmal skill levels in grammar, style and usage. The content is interesting but obscured by error and ambiguity. Don't leave your day job, because you do not have a clue about writing clear, meaningful prose.
The rebuttal is unconvincing and simply reiterates the problem being identified.
The problem doesn't exist though
O.K. What is desired here? Are us men supposed to lay down and admit we are nothing but a piece of shit? Furthermore, us, “white men” are the scum of the Earth? I mean, at least so called minority men have one thing going for them? What does a woman like this desire? I have no problem trying to appease her wants and/or needs, just explain to me what it is you truly want? I can’t change history, but perhaps I can make some! Come on ladies, oops, I’m sure you break that down as wrong as it contains “lad” known as a harmless gentleman, or should we change the definition of lad to be a horrible, crime committing, young male, never known to do anything good? WHAT DO YOU WANT, LADIES!
Iveta and the linquist should find career paths that don't require critical thinking or professional writing skills. And based upon some of the comments, I presume that Bored Panda is a site that services anti-intellectual Trump supporters. Am I correct?
I'm all for feminism but seriously, come on! Being a feminist doesn't mean complaining about everything or whatever that lady was trying to do
"You're just trying to confuse me with jabber, asshole." ~ this bitch immediately after, probably
Hey other bored pandas. Where is the line of feminism and sexism drawn??
Right down the middle ??