“The Whole Room Went Completely Silent”: Woman Puts Religious Sister In Place
Interview With ExpertMarriage is becoming less of a priority than it used to be, and many children are born outside of it due to this fact. Traditional norms are changing, and people are starting to realize that giving a child a loving upbringing requires more than a ring or marriage certificate. However, some are unaccustomed to this idea or, rather, still believe that children should be born into a legally bound and committed family.
Like this woman who voiced such an opinion at her sister’s pregnancy announcement, turning the evening into a lecture about how out-of-wedlock pregnancy is ‘sinful.’ The sibling felt extremely hurt by her behavior and decided to get back at her by exposing her own scandalous past.
Scroll down to find the full story and conversation with a licensed marriage and family therapist and owner of Three Points Relationships, Kate Engler, who kindly agreed to tell us more about childbearing outside marriage.
Many children are born outside marriage, as it’s becoming less of a priority than it used to be
Image credits: Kateryna Hliznitsova / unsplash (not the actual photo)
However, this woman believes pregnancy out-of-wedlock is sinful and even shamed her sister for it
Image credits: Getty Images / unsplash (not the actual photo)
Image credits: AgreeableDecision807
Around 40% of babies in the US are born out of wedlock
Around 40% of babies in the US are born out of wedlock. A licensed marriage and family therapist and owner of Three Points Relationships, Kate Engler, says that couples today don’t feel the need to marry when a baby enters the picture, mostly because the social stigma and necessity of marriage have both changed.
“In general, women have way more options if they want to have a child—they don’t even really need a man to do so, and this opens up other options re: having children. In addition, more and more people seem to be questioning the necessity and benefits (or lack thereof) of marriage and making choices that are aligned with what kind of life and partnerships they want to have,” she explains.
“Marriage can be wonderful, but it has a lot of downsides too, especially for women in cisgender, heterosexual marriages. I think younger women look at the burdens their older peers carry in their marriages to men and don’t want any part of it—much less to be legally locked in—but they want to have children, so kids without marriage offers more flexibility. I also think that people are realizing that you can raise children really well with another person even if you are not in a romantic relationship with them, and possibly more easily than if you are in a relationship with them. It takes that complication out of the equation.”
However, not so long ago, pregnancies outside marriage were negatively looked upon. That’s why the number of shotgun marriages was so high. A whopping 43% of unwed pregnancies resulted in a wedding out of necessity in the early 1960s. Fortunately, this is in the past, and many believe that you don’t have to be married to have children. As a result, the number of shotgun marriages has shrunk to 9% today. But even though many unmarried couples manage to successfully raise their children, there are still some considerable challenges these families might face.
On average, children raised outside of marriage generally have less fortunate outcomes
Image credits: Picsea / unsplash (not the actual photo)
While statistics can’t tell us what is best for individual couples or children in specific circumstances, they paint quite a consistent view of kids with unmarried parents: on average, children raised outside of marriage generally have less fortunate outcomes compared to their peers raised in married-parent families. Typically, they also have worse relationships with their parents and are likely to experience abuse, poorer health, delinquent behavior, worse education and lower earnings in adulthood.
Childbearing out of wedlock is particularly worrisome in case of a separation, as parents might have greater difficulties obtaining financial assistance from previous partners. “You may have more legal hoops to jump through when setting up legal and financial arrangements for yourselves and your children,” says Engler.
“For example, a divorced client of mine, a woman, met a man who she wanted to be with for the long term. Both had been through rough marriages and didn’t want to officially get married again but wanted to be together. They spoke to a lawyer about setting up wills, healthcare decision protections, etc. but because the law favors marriage, it was going to end up costing $15,000+ to get everything they needed in place. The lawyer told them they were better off getting married.”
And even though the stigma surrounding childbearing outside marriage has reduced significantly, parents in such arrengements still have to deal with a lot of judgment and unsolicited commentary, notes Engler. “Traditional notions about marriage and gender still remain and we seem to be moving backwards on this front. Honestly though, I find that these traditional ideas about kids and marriage were very present even before the current backlash, and even amongst otherwise progressive, thinking people,” she rationalizes.
“We have some very bad cultural stories about what is the “right” way to be in a relationship and have overemphasized marriage as the ultimate goal. The sad part is, having married parents isn’t the most important thing for kids. Having parents who are emotionally stable and mature, have resources, and coparent peacefully, and getting to spend as much time with both parents is the most important thing.”
So if having children without getting married is something a couple wants to do, they should go for it, Engler advises. ” I understand it is painful to be judged. No one wants that! However, if not getting married is the right choice for them, do it. You are the only ones who can decide what’s right for you and you must live with your decisions. As long as you are very intentional and clear about the “why” of your choice, go ahead and do it!”
Some readers supported the original poster
While some started questioning the age difference between her and her husband
Part of readers also thought both sisters were at fault
And some believed the original poster was wrong here
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What's with Redditors and age difference? EVERY time when age difference bigger than 2-3 years old is mentioned and poster is under 30, they make a fuss. 18 y.o. - let alone 20 - is considered adult in most countries. 25 y.o. isn't an old guy with lots of experience, usually they really aren't much more mature than teenagers. If we consider 18 y.o. old enough to vote, drive and work, maybe let them choose their partners in peace, too? Saying so - outing someone's abortion is never alright, no matter the circumstances. I wholeheartedly understand why OP is upset with her sister but that is one of the very few situations when she should confront her privately.
I think the age thing has something to do with people's need on the internet to dog pile on a villian. Pedophiles are always safe to s**t on, so whenever they see a similar age gap as above that's the focus justified or not. As for the actual story, in my opinion, older sister found out what "Judge not, lest thee be judged" means.
Load More Replies...I don't understand people like the sister and mother. Why on earth did the sister feel safe berating her about that exact topic? And why didn't the mother trot out the "ruining a happy evening" line when the SISTER was spewing out multiple sentences? Do these people simply always just pick on the "easier" and "nicer" targets?
Yes, they do, because "keeping the peace" is all about keeping THEIR peace, not the target's peace. Anyone in a family who sets boundaries is automatically labeled difficult. I bet anything that's the dynamic going on here.
Load More Replies...Regardless of age or anything else in this story: People of any religion need to understand that THEIR religion instructs THEM on what's right and wrong, and it tells THEM how to live THEIR lives. It does not, however, apply to ANYONE else; THEIR religion does not tell OTHERS how to live THEIR lives.
EXACTLY!! I always want to tell them this when they tell me I’m “going to hell” for whatever I’m up to. I’m like “no, YOU’RE going to hell if you do this. I’LL be fine. Your religion’s rules are for YOU, not for me.” 😂 like “oh you can’t have premarital s*x or you’ll burn in hell” “no, YOU can’t have premarital s*x or YOU’LL burn in hell, I can do whatever I want.” Lmao
Load More Replies...What's with age fixation? My parents were happily married for decades, when they got married she was 19 and he was 28.
My best friend is a good few years older than his wife. Their son was pageboy at their church wedding. Nobody gave the slightest **** whatsoever. What makes this pertinent is that they just celebrated their 25th wedding aniversary. Their kids (now plural) are well brought up and the whole family is kind, giving and loving. You can stick your ultra "religious" churches and age differences up your a***s!!!
Abortions that hyper-religious people get should ABSOLUTELY be outed. You don't get to preach to others but behind the scenes do what you preach against.
As one commentator pointed out, Mary, mother of Jesus was pregnant before she married. Outside of her and Joseph, nobody knew the circumstances. God had no issue with her being a martyr for all single pregnant women everywhere in all that she had to face and deal with because the main characters knew the truth and that an act of love was in progress. Live a year in the shoes of those you think to judge if you want to understand wisdom.
"Just going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in your garage makes you a car" - G. K. Chesterton
wow....what's with the judgement here on the age difference...that doesn't seem to be OP's issue at the moment. What is the issue, is where was OP's family when her sister was spouting off? Mom said it was supposed to be a happy occasion so why didn't anyone speak up. Sister got what she deserved. OP is NTA!
Religious nuts can go suck eggs. Every last one of them. Massively ignorant hypocrites for the most part, with less empathy than a bag of rocks.
“Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven." Luke 6:37. Op's sister should have remembered that.
1 Corinthians 5:12-13 12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13 God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.”[a] Seems like judgement is allowed for certain people and the sister was following scripture. Not sure if she had authority though.
Load More Replies...If you are going to keep up a religious personal attack, make d**n sure you didn't sin first. Yes, it was a bit harsh but I would probably have done the same eventually.
And given how MUCH hate women catch no matter what they do (get married or stay single, have a kid, remain childfree, etc.), and knowing you can't please everyone ever, the sensible thing is to disregard all opinions and please yourself first. I hope she's doing that, and I hope that the sister wakes tf up, apologizes, leans away from all the Christian hate, and doesn't do even more to estrange herself from her sister. The mother is also culpable, for not shutting down the rant in the first place. Good on little sister for finishing what the glass house dwelle started. 10/10, highly recommend.
I swear to gods this is a repost. That or people really have similar issues.
I've definitely heard this exact story before.
Load More Replies...If someone is old enough to die for their country, get married, or vote...they're old enough to have a relationship regardless of the other persons age (as long as they too are over 18) Your sister shouldn't have lectured you, you shouldn't have divulged a secret..however...mother saying you ruined a happy night....but it was okay for your sister to ruin YOUR happy night.....Naw...you're okay
People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. She had started this and you put her in place for making you feel bad. Congratulations
Good for OP! I'm a proud Pagan and often get BS from the "holier than thou art" sect. Shut that s**t down babe! She has no right! While I'm definitely not a kid person, don't let anyone rain on your parade.
F'ed up family. Oh my. The lower case AH, you are. The major one's your sister, especially as obnoxious religious people are a very special case of their kind, given that, upon the moral high ground being claimed regardless of any else, their main thesis lacks any scientifically relevant support in its favour. The age of the couple ... Mind your own? The younger of them was 18, considered a legal adult in many respects, and rightfully so, and that includes the choice of partner. Tackiness, even with large age gaps, is not a given, just something that is very probable, and seven years is not that great a difference. I understand it may represent different points in somebody's life, and that doesn't increase the likelihood of it working out, as the process of growing up isn't on the same degree of completion for the both of them, but even that, ... is not our call to make in either direction. She's a young adult. "Young" being the adjective for a reason that isn't only langaugial.
Sis can dish it out but she can’t take it. And Mom’s a s**t for standing by the Jesus freak humiliating her sister rather than OP putting the b***h in her place.
Definitely not the thrust of this but bruh, "peevent" is pretty much the worst possible typo to make when talking about a pregnancy. The mental images are both hilarious and horrifying.
I'd like to see Redditors lose their sh1t at the "couple" who used to frequent my local pub. He was in his 60s with a grown family. She was 20 from a broken home. He had her knocked up, or did she trap him? Who knows? I cut what little contact I had when they had a 'whip-round' to pay for his drunk driving fine. Fvck him.
Both sisters have issues here. OP shouldn’t have reacted openly and her sister ought to know the ‘he who is without sin can cast the first stone’. A quiet word with her sister to assure her that her views aren’t helpful or required, if she argues then the past can be brought into the conversation.
What's with Redditors and age difference? EVERY time when age difference bigger than 2-3 years old is mentioned and poster is under 30, they make a fuss. 18 y.o. - let alone 20 - is considered adult in most countries. 25 y.o. isn't an old guy with lots of experience, usually they really aren't much more mature than teenagers. If we consider 18 y.o. old enough to vote, drive and work, maybe let them choose their partners in peace, too? Saying so - outing someone's abortion is never alright, no matter the circumstances. I wholeheartedly understand why OP is upset with her sister but that is one of the very few situations when she should confront her privately.
I think the age thing has something to do with people's need on the internet to dog pile on a villian. Pedophiles are always safe to s**t on, so whenever they see a similar age gap as above that's the focus justified or not. As for the actual story, in my opinion, older sister found out what "Judge not, lest thee be judged" means.
Load More Replies...I don't understand people like the sister and mother. Why on earth did the sister feel safe berating her about that exact topic? And why didn't the mother trot out the "ruining a happy evening" line when the SISTER was spewing out multiple sentences? Do these people simply always just pick on the "easier" and "nicer" targets?
Yes, they do, because "keeping the peace" is all about keeping THEIR peace, not the target's peace. Anyone in a family who sets boundaries is automatically labeled difficult. I bet anything that's the dynamic going on here.
Load More Replies...Regardless of age or anything else in this story: People of any religion need to understand that THEIR religion instructs THEM on what's right and wrong, and it tells THEM how to live THEIR lives. It does not, however, apply to ANYONE else; THEIR religion does not tell OTHERS how to live THEIR lives.
EXACTLY!! I always want to tell them this when they tell me I’m “going to hell” for whatever I’m up to. I’m like “no, YOU’RE going to hell if you do this. I’LL be fine. Your religion’s rules are for YOU, not for me.” 😂 like “oh you can’t have premarital s*x or you’ll burn in hell” “no, YOU can’t have premarital s*x or YOU’LL burn in hell, I can do whatever I want.” Lmao
Load More Replies...What's with age fixation? My parents were happily married for decades, when they got married she was 19 and he was 28.
My best friend is a good few years older than his wife. Their son was pageboy at their church wedding. Nobody gave the slightest **** whatsoever. What makes this pertinent is that they just celebrated their 25th wedding aniversary. Their kids (now plural) are well brought up and the whole family is kind, giving and loving. You can stick your ultra "religious" churches and age differences up your a***s!!!
Abortions that hyper-religious people get should ABSOLUTELY be outed. You don't get to preach to others but behind the scenes do what you preach against.
As one commentator pointed out, Mary, mother of Jesus was pregnant before she married. Outside of her and Joseph, nobody knew the circumstances. God had no issue with her being a martyr for all single pregnant women everywhere in all that she had to face and deal with because the main characters knew the truth and that an act of love was in progress. Live a year in the shoes of those you think to judge if you want to understand wisdom.
"Just going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in your garage makes you a car" - G. K. Chesterton
wow....what's with the judgement here on the age difference...that doesn't seem to be OP's issue at the moment. What is the issue, is where was OP's family when her sister was spouting off? Mom said it was supposed to be a happy occasion so why didn't anyone speak up. Sister got what she deserved. OP is NTA!
Religious nuts can go suck eggs. Every last one of them. Massively ignorant hypocrites for the most part, with less empathy than a bag of rocks.
“Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven." Luke 6:37. Op's sister should have remembered that.
1 Corinthians 5:12-13 12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13 God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.”[a] Seems like judgement is allowed for certain people and the sister was following scripture. Not sure if she had authority though.
Load More Replies...If you are going to keep up a religious personal attack, make d**n sure you didn't sin first. Yes, it was a bit harsh but I would probably have done the same eventually.
And given how MUCH hate women catch no matter what they do (get married or stay single, have a kid, remain childfree, etc.), and knowing you can't please everyone ever, the sensible thing is to disregard all opinions and please yourself first. I hope she's doing that, and I hope that the sister wakes tf up, apologizes, leans away from all the Christian hate, and doesn't do even more to estrange herself from her sister. The mother is also culpable, for not shutting down the rant in the first place. Good on little sister for finishing what the glass house dwelle started. 10/10, highly recommend.
I swear to gods this is a repost. That or people really have similar issues.
I've definitely heard this exact story before.
Load More Replies...If someone is old enough to die for their country, get married, or vote...they're old enough to have a relationship regardless of the other persons age (as long as they too are over 18) Your sister shouldn't have lectured you, you shouldn't have divulged a secret..however...mother saying you ruined a happy night....but it was okay for your sister to ruin YOUR happy night.....Naw...you're okay
People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. She had started this and you put her in place for making you feel bad. Congratulations
Good for OP! I'm a proud Pagan and often get BS from the "holier than thou art" sect. Shut that s**t down babe! She has no right! While I'm definitely not a kid person, don't let anyone rain on your parade.
F'ed up family. Oh my. The lower case AH, you are. The major one's your sister, especially as obnoxious religious people are a very special case of their kind, given that, upon the moral high ground being claimed regardless of any else, their main thesis lacks any scientifically relevant support in its favour. The age of the couple ... Mind your own? The younger of them was 18, considered a legal adult in many respects, and rightfully so, and that includes the choice of partner. Tackiness, even with large age gaps, is not a given, just something that is very probable, and seven years is not that great a difference. I understand it may represent different points in somebody's life, and that doesn't increase the likelihood of it working out, as the process of growing up isn't on the same degree of completion for the both of them, but even that, ... is not our call to make in either direction. She's a young adult. "Young" being the adjective for a reason that isn't only langaugial.
Sis can dish it out but she can’t take it. And Mom’s a s**t for standing by the Jesus freak humiliating her sister rather than OP putting the b***h in her place.
Definitely not the thrust of this but bruh, "peevent" is pretty much the worst possible typo to make when talking about a pregnancy. The mental images are both hilarious and horrifying.
I'd like to see Redditors lose their sh1t at the "couple" who used to frequent my local pub. He was in his 60s with a grown family. She was 20 from a broken home. He had her knocked up, or did she trap him? Who knows? I cut what little contact I had when they had a 'whip-round' to pay for his drunk driving fine. Fvck him.
Both sisters have issues here. OP shouldn’t have reacted openly and her sister ought to know the ‘he who is without sin can cast the first stone’. A quiet word with her sister to assure her that her views aren’t helpful or required, if she argues then the past can be brought into the conversation.
































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