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15
Paramedics Face Disciplinary Action For Giving Life-Saving Antivenom To Snakebite Victim
A team of Kentucky paramedics is in danger of losing their licenses after administering snake anti-venom to save a man’s life.
Eddie Barnes and his unnamed colleague took the swift and much-needed action after reptile handler James Harrison was attacked by a snake endemic to central Africa—known for its venomous bites that are capable of dropping a fully grown human in as little as 30 minutes.
Highlights
- Kentucky medics administered anti-venom to a snakebite victim despite state law.
- The survivor’s wife and physicians backed the paramedics’ decision.
- The case heads to Kentucky’s medical board on September 30.
The medics may have saved a life, but they broke a law, and are now slated to face the state’s medical regulatory body to defend their credentials.
BP Daily - Your Source for Unbiased Reporting
The paramedics tried unsuccessfully to contact the EMS director before administering the jab
Image credits: Richard RoZ/Wikimedia
According to Barnes, also a judge-executive, Harrison apprised him and his colleague of his (Harrison’s) fate if they did not administer the antidote.
“The victim had told us that we needed to administer the antivenom as soon as possible, and if not, the first stage is paralysis, the second stage is respiratory arrest, the third stage is cardiac arrest, then he said, ‘I’m going to [pass away],’” Barnes recalled.
And so, while they waited for the medical evacuation helicopter, Barnes and his colleague gave Harrison the life-saving jab.
Image credits: WKYT
It has come to light that before injecting him, the paramedics tried to contact their EMS director, but said senior was unavailable.
Kentucky prohibits anyone but wilderness medics from administering anti-venom
Had the medics made contact with the EMS director, however, the Daily Mail speculates that they would have likely ordered them not to administer the anti-venom.
Image credits: WKYT
This decision would have been based on a state law amended two years prior, prohibiting anyone but wilderness medics from injecting patients with anti-venom.
“I’ll be honest with you, I think it’s ridiculous,” Barnes slammed the legislation.
Eddie Barnes says he would do it again to save a life
“If we had sat there and let him d**, then we would have been morally and ethically responsible, and we could have been criminally charged for his [demise],” Harrison told the outlet.
Image credits: Waldemar Brandt/Unsplash
Barnes is adamant he did the right thing and indicated that he would happily do it again.
“If it came down today, I would do the same thing. You cannot put a price on a person’s life,”
James Harrison and his wife Kristen have consulted other medics, who have reportedly backed Barnes’ decision
Harrison’s wife, Kristen Wiley also weighed in on the controversy that is now making international news, expressing gratitude.
Image credits: WKYT
“Every physician that we’ve talked to about it, and about the course of the bite, agrees that they were heroes and did what needed to be done to save him. That’s who I want working on me in an emergency,” WKYT, a television station based out of Lexington, Kentucky, quoted Wiley saying.
Bares and his colleague are slated to appear before the Kentucky Board of Emergency Medical Services on September 30.
Social media suggests that Barnes take Jameson’s Mamba to the hearing and let it bite someone there
Image credits: WKYT
Social media has become aware of the dispute and recommended a revolutionary solution that is likely to vindicate Barnes and company quickly.
“Take a mamba to the meeting, let it bite someone who thinks they did the wrong thing and see how quickly they would let most anybody administer the life saving anti-venom,” wrote one person.
Another advised pointing out to the review board that there was no wilderness medic close by.
Image credits: NCI/Unsplash
Said individual also claimed there are contact details for wilderness medics in the telephone directory.
One reader took aim at the root of the problem when they asked: “How did a mamba from sub Saharan Africa get to Kentucky?”
The Jameson’s mamba is known as a shy snake, unlike its cousin the black mamba
Image credits: WKYT
Data on the export of Jameson’s Mambas is hard to come by with the most recent statistics covering the period between 2013 and 2017.
At the time, 102 reptiles were listed for export to North America and Europe. The International Union for Conservation of Nature notes that the snake is not endangered.
Also, it is seldom a danger to humans as it is shy—unlike its cousin, the black mamba, which is just as venomous, has a top speed of 10 miles per hour, and is known to chase people.
The internet support for Barnes and his colleague is overwhelming
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What do you think ?
TotallyNOTAFox 2 months ago
Best outcome would be if that law gets revoked as result of this. That they shouldn't be charged for anything is obvious
Lee Banks 2 months ago
That's why I'm kinda por inquiry. The law is only two years old. This would be a great time to walk it back and say "Our bad."
Load More Replies...
Binny Tutera 2 months ago
This is what Emergency Room and women’s doctors face every single day all over America! Save a woman’s life by aborting a non viable or even deceased fetus or waiting until it is poisoning her and then, maybe, it will placate some old male politician and she might not d ie.
Lola July 2 months ago (edited)
It's not really abortion if the fetus is dead.
Load More Replies...
GenericElder 2 months ago
Do what's right, regardless of the law. We (U.S.) may all have to make this type of decision soon.
Science Nerd 2 months ago (edited)
If the medics are prohibited from administering the anti-venom, why did they have it available? If it were the snake handler’s why didn’t he jab himself? In answer to the comments, the post used the term jab so I used the same term. I have seen on reputable shows the antivenom delivered with a syringe. I don’t know if it have to be delivered to a vein or if intramuscular is acceptable.
arthbach 2 months ago
Science Nerd, typically antivenom is administered by a slow intravenous infusion,. The antivenom is diluted in a saline or dextrose solution, and given through a vein in the arm. It's not the sort of thing a person without medical or nursing training could do.
Load More Replies... arthbach 2 months ago
The paramedics were in an impossible position. If they don't give the antivenom, their patient dies before their eyes, and they know they could have save him. Swiftly followed by a law suit because they did nothing when they had the means to save him. Or, they could do take the ethical and moral path, given the injection and break the law. They did the only correct thing. It's also right they will appear before the medical board. The board should recognise they did the right thing, but in doing so broke the law. The board should then recommend/demand the law be reworked to allow for trained professionals to administer the anti-venom, and argue the current restrictions are too tight, and people will die.
Peter Parker 2 months ago
In civilized countries, you can't get charged if you try to save someone's life and break some laws in the process, e.g. undressing someone to administer CPR or "assaulting" them and breaking ribs while doing so.
martin734 2 months ago
In civilised countries Paramedics are properly trained trained and empowered to make their own decisions on how to best treat patients and not have to ask for permission before carrying out basic medical procedures. There is a very good reason that it takes 3-4 years at university and a further 12 months of training to become a fully trained Paramedic in the UK. They are highly trained and highly autonomous medical professionals who are expected to use their own judgement and initiative on how to best treat their patients.
Load More Replies...
Tyranamar Seuss 2 months ago
I ran into an issue where I couldn't tell another psychiatrist his patient was using fentanyl bc of HIPPA. Her daughter was my patient. Well she died. Fentanyl o******e. I decided if I'm ever in that position again. Where it's the law vs. doing something that may save someone's life, screw it, I'm telling. Haven't had to make that call again. But I know what I'd do next time.
Grumpy old man 2 months ago
You have that right. Cite the 1946 Nuremburg trials. Just following orders doesnt cut it
Load More Replies...
Janelle Collard 2 months ago
Hope they take the mamba to the meeting + "introduce" it to the people trying to punish the heroes. 😁😁
FreeTheUnicorn 2 months ago
How is the med director unavailable? That should be a prosecutorial offense. But good Samaritan laws should cover the medics, if it was within their training and a person of similar training would find the action reasonable, there's no legal issue. You disobeyed orders, that's different, but it's internal to the organisation. Except in cases of widespread natural disaster, like an earthquake, floods or a hurricane, the med director should always be available via radio. All the EMTs are working under their license and that's their job to be available. Sue Kentucky for not providing industry minimum level of care.
Grumpy old man 2 months ago
Okay: for those born yesterday: in 1946 at the Neremburg trials, the Nutzis tried to say we were only doing our jobs. The Americans called BS, and since then EVERY American can refuse any order they consider unlawful, unconscionable, or just plain wrong. The law is wrong and must be changed
Philly Bob 2 months ago
Under the new "regime" this is sadly becoming no longer true. Crime for me but not for thee.
Load More Replies...
Nancie Jeanne 2 months ago
So why to they actually HAVE the anti venom of they aren't allowed to use it?
Binny Tutera 2 months ago
Because common sense and decency say it’s important to be prepared.
Load More Replies...
Mel in Georgia 2 months ago
I had many questions about his post, and this explains a lot: https://fox56news.com/news/kentucky/snakebite-survivor-defends-powell-county-ems-team-ahead-of-hearing-they-saved-my-life/amp/ Hope the paramedics get justice.
John Dilligaf 2 months ago
I would be really interested in how this law came about in the first place. What possible reason can there be for it? Also, does that same law prohibit " wilderness medics" from performing life-saving actions in urban areas?
austin cromar 2 months ago
I'd like to bring up Henry David Thoreau's idea of civil disobedience (not technically his idea but the term is from him)
Kitsune 2 months ago
the formatting didn't work I was trying to write law over life = revolution as a math equation
Load More Replies...
Tamara Kroonen 2 months ago
If breaking the law weighs heavier than saving a man's life, than there is something wrong with your laws. But no matter what, that knife cut both ways. They were screwed either way. They either would be punished by breaking the law, or by letting a man willfully die. How can one win in such a situation?
Danish Susanne 2 months ago (edited)
In my country we have a law that says if you can save another in danger without putting your own life at risk it would be illegal not to do so. So here he could not be punished. Besides would a wildlife medic know what to do with bites from African snakes?
Scott Rackley 2 months ago
Not reported here is that they did call a doctor, the nearest hospital's ER doctor, who gave them permission to give the man the anti venom. The anti venom that the man supplied (well, zoo supplied). That should be the end of it, the ER doc said jab him, they were following the doc's orders. Life saved. All good.
BoredPangolin 2 months ago
My first reaction is wait, if only wildlife medics are able to inject that antivenom, where was that dose from?! I'm betting the snake owner had it and knee his stuff--i don't know for the US, but in lots of other country you need a training + license to own highlm risk snake like mambas! If the paramedics had it, why can't they use it? Their job is to save life. No law can actually condemn them to anything since, if they didn't save the guy, they would have broken the law way worst: homicide by neglect.
Isobel Davies 2 months ago
what absolute TOOL passed that "law" if they have the means, knowledge and ways to save a life THEN DO IT, it speaks volumes that they couldnt even get hold of a senior for advice ! well done for fast thinking and just doing what any one would have, charging them is criminal and the only person/people who should be getting charged os the melts/s that passed the law
Smeghead Tribble Down Under 2 months ago
I cannot believe what I have just read. I mean, I HONESTLY can't believe it. I have heard a lot of stupid things in my life, but this is King Stupid.
KatSaidWhat 2 months ago
Fairly sure the first rule is "do no harm"... What is wrong with you, America...
Sofia 2 months ago
Not 100% sure but I am pretty sure that in my country (italy) if you're doing something to save someone's life and you cannot actually ask patient's consent (or your superiors and stuff) you CAN actually do because you are in an emergency situation. Is like the firefighter tearing down your door because he's saving your life... he doesnt need permission...
UpupaEpops 2 months ago
Wait. No. Hold on. You guys have zoos that don't have their own antivenom stock for the species that they have? And trained staff to administer it? I mean, yeah, small zoos don't have them in Europe either, but mid- and large zoos do. God, whenever I look at the wages, especially compared to Eastern Europe, I wish I was an American. But then I learn about your legislation and man, I'm glad to be in the over-regulated EU.
Verena 2 months ago
Is this the Big Beautiful Freedom they are so proud of in the US? Together with the fortune to pay to have said EMTs coming along? However, as living in a country where we enjoy community funded health care, which as result is free when needed, I think that private collectors of non-native animals should pay for themselves indeed. Bummer for the US: They have declared horses as non-native and to be eradicated (to make room for non-native cattle, whose meat is going to waste for the biggest part, because of overproduction so that the poor custumers would not be hit to make choices at the groceries)
Kabuki Kitsune 2 months ago
Vote it down all you want, but this law exists because of a very real problem Kentucky has. Specifically, they (like every state) maintain a rather limited supply of anti-venom. This law is part of a framework that ensures that only qualified specialists administer the anti-venom, due to the fact that the specific dosages are so precise, that depending on the anti-venom used, as little as 1cc more than the proscribed dose, can result in anaphylaxis, and death. Given that the average EMT or Paramedic is not likely to be certified in the use of anti-venom, the state argues that the odds of them making such a mistake are high, especially in high stress situations. State law requires that, in the event of a bite from a venomous snake, trauma flight (life flight) is to be used to fly the patient to the nearest medical center, with trained anti-venom specialists, and the treatment is to be performed in the hospital, with the patient entering ICU for further treatment.
Multa Nocte (she/tiger quoll) 2 months ago
The problem is that the person is dead within 30 minutes, hardly enough time to call, receive the flight, and make it to the hospital in time.
Load More Replies...
Crystalwitch60 2 months ago
So basically ,they can carry anti venom ? But they can’t freaking use it without permission , which complete lunatic piliock made that dam law up !!!! SERIOUSLY sat shaking my head at this complete shite show , if they ain’t allowed to use em DINT LWT THEM CARRY THEM 🤷♀️n anyone as takes these HEROES their licences , need locking up ,with a few mambas like someone said see how fast they change their minds .!!! EMERGENCY SERVICES ARE THERE TO SAVE LIVES !! THEY DID JUST THAT 🤷♀️USA IS ALL KINDA OF F*****K E D UP BEYOND BELIFE 🤦♀️😡🤷♀️.seriously huge hugs n thanks to those heroes , n yup wtf was that snake even doing where it isn’t normally seen hmm ! Good job the wonderful paramedics knew what it was really !!
TotallyNOTAFox 2 months ago
Best outcome would be if that law gets revoked as result of this. That they shouldn't be charged for anything is obvious
Lee Banks 2 months ago
That's why I'm kinda por inquiry. The law is only two years old. This would be a great time to walk it back and say "Our bad."
Load More Replies... Binny Tutera 2 months ago
This is what Emergency Room and women’s doctors face every single day all over America! Save a woman’s life by aborting a non viable or even deceased fetus or waiting until it is poisoning her and then, maybe, it will placate some old male politician and she might not d ie.
Lola July 2 months ago (edited)
It's not really abortion if the fetus is dead.
Load More Replies... GenericElder 2 months ago
Do what's right, regardless of the law. We (U.S.) may all have to make this type of decision soon.
Science Nerd 2 months ago (edited)
If the medics are prohibited from administering the anti-venom, why did they have it available? If it were the snake handler’s why didn’t he jab himself? In answer to the comments, the post used the term jab so I used the same term. I have seen on reputable shows the antivenom delivered with a syringe. I don’t know if it have to be delivered to a vein or if intramuscular is acceptable.
arthbach 2 months ago
Science Nerd, typically antivenom is administered by a slow intravenous infusion,. The antivenom is diluted in a saline or dextrose solution, and given through a vein in the arm. It's not the sort of thing a person without medical or nursing training could do.
Load More Replies... arthbach 2 months ago
The paramedics were in an impossible position. If they don't give the antivenom, their patient dies before their eyes, and they know they could have save him. Swiftly followed by a law suit because they did nothing when they had the means to save him. Or, they could do take the ethical and moral path, given the injection and break the law. They did the only correct thing. It's also right they will appear before the medical board. The board should recognise they did the right thing, but in doing so broke the law. The board should then recommend/demand the law be reworked to allow for trained professionals to administer the anti-venom, and argue the current restrictions are too tight, and people will die.
Peter Parker 2 months ago
In civilized countries, you can't get charged if you try to save someone's life and break some laws in the process, e.g. undressing someone to administer CPR or "assaulting" them and breaking ribs while doing so.
martin734 2 months ago
In civilised countries Paramedics are properly trained trained and empowered to make their own decisions on how to best treat patients and not have to ask for permission before carrying out basic medical procedures. There is a very good reason that it takes 3-4 years at university and a further 12 months of training to become a fully trained Paramedic in the UK. They are highly trained and highly autonomous medical professionals who are expected to use their own judgement and initiative on how to best treat their patients.
Load More Replies... Tyranamar Seuss 2 months ago
I ran into an issue where I couldn't tell another psychiatrist his patient was using fentanyl bc of HIPPA. Her daughter was my patient. Well she died. Fentanyl o******e. I decided if I'm ever in that position again. Where it's the law vs. doing something that may save someone's life, screw it, I'm telling. Haven't had to make that call again. But I know what I'd do next time.
Grumpy old man 2 months ago
You have that right. Cite the 1946 Nuremburg trials. Just following orders doesnt cut it
Load More Replies... Janelle Collard 2 months ago
Hope they take the mamba to the meeting + "introduce" it to the people trying to punish the heroes. 😁😁
FreeTheUnicorn 2 months ago
How is the med director unavailable? That should be a prosecutorial offense. But good Samaritan laws should cover the medics, if it was within their training and a person of similar training would find the action reasonable, there's no legal issue. You disobeyed orders, that's different, but it's internal to the organisation. Except in cases of widespread natural disaster, like an earthquake, floods or a hurricane, the med director should always be available via radio. All the EMTs are working under their license and that's their job to be available. Sue Kentucky for not providing industry minimum level of care.
Grumpy old man 2 months ago
Okay: for those born yesterday: in 1946 at the Neremburg trials, the Nutzis tried to say we were only doing our jobs. The Americans called BS, and since then EVERY American can refuse any order they consider unlawful, unconscionable, or just plain wrong. The law is wrong and must be changed
Philly Bob 2 months ago
Under the new "regime" this is sadly becoming no longer true. Crime for me but not for thee.
Load More Replies... Nancie Jeanne 2 months ago
So why to they actually HAVE the anti venom of they aren't allowed to use it?
Binny Tutera 2 months ago
Because common sense and decency say it’s important to be prepared.
Load More Replies... Mel in Georgia 2 months ago
I had many questions about his post, and this explains a lot: https://fox56news.com/news/kentucky/snakebite-survivor-defends-powell-county-ems-team-ahead-of-hearing-they-saved-my-life/amp/ Hope the paramedics get justice.
John Dilligaf 2 months ago
I would be really interested in how this law came about in the first place. What possible reason can there be for it? Also, does that same law prohibit " wilderness medics" from performing life-saving actions in urban areas?
austin cromar 2 months ago
I'd like to bring up Henry David Thoreau's idea of civil disobedience (not technically his idea but the term is from him)
Kitsune 2 months ago
the formatting didn't work I was trying to write law over life = revolution as a math equation
Load More Replies... Tamara Kroonen 2 months ago
If breaking the law weighs heavier than saving a man's life, than there is something wrong with your laws. But no matter what, that knife cut both ways. They were screwed either way. They either would be punished by breaking the law, or by letting a man willfully die. How can one win in such a situation?
Danish Susanne 2 months ago (edited)
In my country we have a law that says if you can save another in danger without putting your own life at risk it would be illegal not to do so. So here he could not be punished. Besides would a wildlife medic know what to do with bites from African snakes?
Scott Rackley 2 months ago
Not reported here is that they did call a doctor, the nearest hospital's ER doctor, who gave them permission to give the man the anti venom. The anti venom that the man supplied (well, zoo supplied). That should be the end of it, the ER doc said jab him, they were following the doc's orders. Life saved. All good.
BoredPangolin 2 months ago
My first reaction is wait, if only wildlife medics are able to inject that antivenom, where was that dose from?! I'm betting the snake owner had it and knee his stuff--i don't know for the US, but in lots of other country you need a training + license to own highlm risk snake like mambas! If the paramedics had it, why can't they use it? Their job is to save life. No law can actually condemn them to anything since, if they didn't save the guy, they would have broken the law way worst: homicide by neglect.
Isobel Davies 2 months ago
what absolute TOOL passed that "law" if they have the means, knowledge and ways to save a life THEN DO IT, it speaks volumes that they couldnt even get hold of a senior for advice ! well done for fast thinking and just doing what any one would have, charging them is criminal and the only person/people who should be getting charged os the melts/s that passed the law
Smeghead Tribble Down Under 2 months ago
I cannot believe what I have just read. I mean, I HONESTLY can't believe it. I have heard a lot of stupid things in my life, but this is King Stupid.
KatSaidWhat 2 months ago
Fairly sure the first rule is "do no harm"... What is wrong with you, America...
Sofia 2 months ago
Not 100% sure but I am pretty sure that in my country (italy) if you're doing something to save someone's life and you cannot actually ask patient's consent (or your superiors and stuff) you CAN actually do because you are in an emergency situation. Is like the firefighter tearing down your door because he's saving your life... he doesnt need permission...
UpupaEpops 2 months ago
Wait. No. Hold on. You guys have zoos that don't have their own antivenom stock for the species that they have? And trained staff to administer it? I mean, yeah, small zoos don't have them in Europe either, but mid- and large zoos do. God, whenever I look at the wages, especially compared to Eastern Europe, I wish I was an American. But then I learn about your legislation and man, I'm glad to be in the over-regulated EU.
Verena 2 months ago
Is this the Big Beautiful Freedom they are so proud of in the US? Together with the fortune to pay to have said EMTs coming along? However, as living in a country where we enjoy community funded health care, which as result is free when needed, I think that private collectors of non-native animals should pay for themselves indeed. Bummer for the US: They have declared horses as non-native and to be eradicated (to make room for non-native cattle, whose meat is going to waste for the biggest part, because of overproduction so that the poor custumers would not be hit to make choices at the groceries)
Kabuki Kitsune 2 months ago
Vote it down all you want, but this law exists because of a very real problem Kentucky has. Specifically, they (like every state) maintain a rather limited supply of anti-venom. This law is part of a framework that ensures that only qualified specialists administer the anti-venom, due to the fact that the specific dosages are so precise, that depending on the anti-venom used, as little as 1cc more than the proscribed dose, can result in anaphylaxis, and death. Given that the average EMT or Paramedic is not likely to be certified in the use of anti-venom, the state argues that the odds of them making such a mistake are high, especially in high stress situations. State law requires that, in the event of a bite from a venomous snake, trauma flight (life flight) is to be used to fly the patient to the nearest medical center, with trained anti-venom specialists, and the treatment is to be performed in the hospital, with the patient entering ICU for further treatment.
Multa Nocte (she/tiger quoll) 2 months ago
The problem is that the person is dead within 30 minutes, hardly enough time to call, receive the flight, and make it to the hospital in time.
Load More Replies... Crystalwitch60 2 months ago
So basically ,they can carry anti venom ? But they can’t freaking use it without permission , which complete lunatic piliock made that dam law up !!!! SERIOUSLY sat shaking my head at this complete shite show , if they ain’t allowed to use em DINT LWT THEM CARRY THEM 🤷♀️n anyone as takes these HEROES their licences , need locking up ,with a few mambas like someone said see how fast they change their minds .!!! EMERGENCY SERVICES ARE THERE TO SAVE LIVES !! THEY DID JUST THAT 🤷♀️USA IS ALL KINDA OF F*****K E D UP BEYOND BELIFE 🤦♀️😡🤷♀️.seriously huge hugs n thanks to those heroes , n yup wtf was that snake even doing where it isn’t normally seen hmm ! Good job the wonderful paramedics knew what it was really !!
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