Sesame Street Creator Clarifies Bert’s And Ernie’s Sexuality Debate And People Are Outraged With His Answer
Bert and Ernie the stars of the childhood hit “Sesame Street” have been the subjects of controversy this past week, over their perceived sexual identity. A former writer of the show and the creator have shared their battling ideas of the character, receiving backlash from all sides on the internet, however, this debate is nothing new.
Debuting in 1969 on the Sesame Street pilot, the pair was adopted as gay icons much to the chagrin of the Children’s Television Workshop. The head of the workshop, Gary Knell, made a statement in 1994 clarifying, “They are not gay, they are not straight, they are puppets. They don’t exist below the waist.” Despite his protests pop culture has continued to promote the two as much more than friends, with references appearing on popular T.V shows and even the LGTBQ community making costumed appearances at Gay Pride events.
Much to the delight of some, former Sesame Street writer Mark Saltzman revealed in an exclusive to an LGTBQ magazine that Bert and Ernie were, in fact, gay, “I always felt that without a huge agenda, when I was writing Bert and Ernie, they were [gay],” he said. “I didn’t have any other way to contextualize them. The other thing was, more than one person referred to Arnie & I as ‘Bert and Ernie.’”
Not everyone appreciated the statement and Sesame Street creator, Frank Oz responded on Twitter denouncing the claim. Well if we know anything about the internet it is that you can’t please everyone. Much like with Saltzman’s statement, Oz received a wave of criticism.
Scroll down below to see how people responded and share your thoughts with us!
Bert and Ernie creator Frank Oz weighed in on the character’s sexuality debate on Twitter and received an array of backlash
Some people found the debate to be ridiculous
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Share on FacebookI 100% support gay rights but this is a witch hunt, if the characters are not gay then they're not gay.
Thank you. Wouldn’t it be nice to live in a world where you don’t have to wear your sexuality on a sign around your neck?
Load More Replies...People who attacked the author have no logic, are not reading his comments and just strongly decided to be offended because hatred is more fun.
Yea, it's like they wanted to feel hurt for no real reason. He straight up said it wasn't an issue if some people thought of them as gay despite him not writing them as gay. I don't see the problem. He was supportive either way and just answered the question honestly. It wasn't anything to get angry over.
Load More Replies...Honestly I couldn't care less if Bert & Ernie are gay, trans, brothers, cousins or father and son. They're puppets. So everybody can see them as they would like them to be. This isn't a major issue in this world. Some major issues are: The Dotard driving America into oblivion, People getting harrassed and killed by the police because of the color of their skin, the wars that are going on and killing thousands of people, companies destroying nature for monetary profit. Being concerned about the alledged sexual preferences of a puppet is just bigotry.
I agree this is ridiculous. He is the author, he created the characters, he says if they are gay or straight. And above all- why does it matter? It's a kid's show anyway, sex and sexual orientations should not be part of the equation.
Lol now this would be a hot take now- only 5 years later.
Load More Replies...The person that commented something along the lines of "say you hate the gays, you know you want to say it" like honestly what the f**k ? Now you're just twisting everything. Just because a person told that their creation isn't gay, doesn't mean they are homophobic you dumb piece of s**t. Not everyone has to be related to a gay or be gay in order to support and respect lgtbq+
"Oh do you have a girlfriend?" "Noo, I'm not queer" "Oh so you hate queer people" "No! I just said *I* am not queer" "But you look and act queer in my perception so you must be!!" "But I'm not!!!" "Homophobe!! How can you not be queer when you look queer to me!" Exactly what is going on here. So dumb.
I equate some of these "arguments" like when JK Rowling came out and said that Dumbledore was gay. Who cares? Great that she made him so, but again, that wasn't the main line of the story. Bert and Ernie are two Muppets who have taught many how to count, about colors, and countless other educational lessons. Why do people feel the need to label everything and everyone?
I feel like only Americans have debates like this. We are literally reading an ongoing debate about the sexuality of two puppets on a toddlers tv show. I'm a lesbian. But ask me if I give two craps about this. Nope.
You know what I think it is? They have too much free time and they have that time because they have money. If they were poor they would be out there working or looking for a job instead of spending their time arguing, protesting, suing etc.
Load More Replies...This is setting a truly ridiculous precedent. Now we comb through beloved children's characters to argue whether their sexuality is presented progressively enough!? For someone who's a bit of an old-school leftie I'm finding the left extremely tiring recently
Well, maybe it's time you moved into that cave you've had an eye on for so long.
Load More Replies...I always saw Bert and Ernie as puppet versions of The Odd Couple -- Felix and Oscar lived together for years, and no one called them "gay". Straight men live together all the time. Janet and Chrissy on "Three's Company" lived together, and they weren't gay. Same with Laverne and Shirley. So why are 2 men living together assumed to be gay? Some folks need to get over it already.
I saw them as roommates too. Never made the "Odd Couple" connection, that's brilliant! :D
Load More Replies......what the heck did I just read? A prolonged discussion about whether 2 puppets(...toys. Dolls. Things made for amusement of kids who likely do not yet even know such complicated words as "homosexual") are gay or not and how important that is for the society?o_O ......I'm sorry, what? Also that was a brilliant argument "they're not gay - OMG YOU HATE GAYS????" Wow...just wow
they're puppet! for the love of god... do we have to create a love life for PUPPET too? And Big bird ? and Cookie Monster? people need to get a life
Big bird is definitely gay. Seriously....look at him. He's more swish than RuPaul.
Load More Replies...Yup, this is about the sexual orientation of a stuffed puppet.......
Load More Replies...Self Identifying is one thing, labeling others as you wish them to be is ridiculous
What is wrong with people nowadays? Seriously. We live in a world where a man and a woman cannot be friends, otherwise they will be labelled as the “friendzoned” boy and the “exploiter” girl. Neither can men be close friends, not without being dubbed as a “gay couple”. Why does everything needs to have a sexual implication? Are people really that emotionally limited that if two individuals are close then there is no other explanation to it beside physical attraction? It really annoys me that we keep turning human relationship into a massive sexual attraction ground, without realizing that intersubjective bonding goes way beyond that. And that mentality is everywhere. Look, for example, at The Big Bang Theory series, where the character is called a “weirdo” because he didn’t show enticement for sexual intercourse, being considered slightest “normal” once he did find a girlfriend and induced in said activities. Is that all there is in human socialization? It does make me kind of sad.
You make some good points but being in the "Friend Zone" is not the same as being firends with someone of the opposite sex, it's when you like someone but they only want to be friends with you.
Load More Replies...I think he did well here to confront the masses. Its a difficult position to be in and made me think of J.K Rowling and the ethnicity of her characters. On one hand you want your work to be just that, your work, your vision, your static art. But on the other hand you also have to be aware that people will interpret it differently and then you have to decide what's important to you and what's important to your fans. He could have been a god by changing the characters to be gay and celebrated by so many. But instead he stuck to the original vision which is important but I think leaving the question unanswered could have been the best way here. Who knows
its a childrens show why would you put such pressure on this , let children be children and laugh and smile and be amused by a simple childrens show don't over think . everyone today wants to push their thoughts and ideas onto everyone else . do you people realize we're free thinkers and allowed to make our own thoughts and ideas . stop forcing your ideals onto people thinking you are right . . we should be allowed to grow and make choices without outside ideas being pushed upon us . today world is becoming so ridiculous with all this sensitivity and correctness. society is going to fall apart in 20 years if his continues.
It's ridiculous that people get angry because "they're not gay"... uhm... how do you know the rest of the puppets are "straight"? It's stupid!! NONE of the puppets have a romantic/sexual relationship in the show!! So... how do you know they are straight?? Maybe I want to imagine the Cookie Monster is trans! Maybe I want to imagine Abby Caddaby is lesbian! And there is NO evidence of them having either sexual orientation!!
Would you like it any more or less if they were? They're puppets. Pretty sure puppets are asexual.
Thank you, Frank, for creating such wonderful characters to help so many children.
I............. What??? This was somewhat confussing. I understand inclusion is important, but I just can't understand this trend of demanding the creators to turn any certain character into queer. It's okay if they're queer in your mind, it's okay if there's a fandom who shares queer headcanons about it, but is it necessay to make EVERYONE (including the author/creator) agree with you? This is ridiculous.
so Frank and Jim created the characters, as nothing more than characters, they don't come with a start middle and end, they're just characters on a show. Mark wrote scripts for them for the show, the way he found it easier to show interaction and a relationship was to assume they were gay, this made it easier to write about two male characters living together, but I guess assuming they're gay isn't the same as them being gay. I mean all formats are open to interpretation, that's the beauty of art. A song like Born in the USA might mean patriotism to one person, but it's actually about the atrocities of the Vietnam war and Bruce's disgust of his countries involvement in it. The thing is, it can mean both to both people and it doesn't take away any of the greatness of the song. Same with Bert and Ernie, if you think they're gay, straight, tv characters, puppets, muppets, whatever, that's fine. If you need a truth about them though, be prepared for it. If you don't need it, that's also ok
They're living together, but they don't seem to have any romantic feelings towards each other, and they sleep in their own beds. If it would be absolutely necessary to identify the sexual orientation of fictional characters from little children's tv shows, I would opt for "asexual".
Frank, don't listen to the arrogant ppl out there! There are ppl that just wants to destroy the good that you have CREATED years ago and bash you till you feel something you shouldn't. Sexual orientation is a huge thing now and ppl want to crush others that are doing wonderful things! I was raised watching Sesame street as a child and so did many others and they never thought they were gay or even crossed their minds cause it wasn't. Now, they try to pick apart that is something good and make it disgusting!
How do gay puppets "destroy" your childhood? Please explain in detail. Why are you so frightened to consider it?
Load More Replies...You can't force someone else to confirm to your own world view. Especially the freaking creator of that object. You don't get to just claim things and relable what it is even if it means something to you. Yes.. even the LGBT+ community doesn't get to just claim things and relable them as queer. It's stupid, cringe and disrespectful no matter who is doing it.
"Why point it out if it doesn't matter?" Says the hundreds of people who had been shouting "YAY They're GAY" from the rooftops.
Only on social media could a couple of kids puppets become controversial. Yes, I realize I'm using social media to say this.
Burt and Earnie are puppets. They have no brains. They have no feelings. It wasn’t about the puppets, it was about the story line. People just need to shut the hell up.
I totally support the Elsa from Frozen demand. Too bad Anna is her sister. They would totally be the couple from the fairy tale wedding story: https://www.boredpanda.com/female-cosplayers-wedding-photos/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=organic
Last I heard, Burt was evil, how 'bout we conflate THAT, see how they like it! https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/bert-is-evil
I find it annoying how so many people keep saying "they don't want to be labeled", and that we should love each other "just for being human", and all that... but... those people are so fixated with having people explicitly defined as "gay/straight/queer/bi/trans...". I also imagined E & B as brothers when I was a kid. I think Frank Oz just imagined 2 puppets living together, that's it. The viewer can imagine their lives and relationship as they please. It's like those people getting all crazy just because a black actress (Noma Dumezweni) was chosen to play Hermione, instead of someone who looks like Emma Watson. In the books, it never says if the character is white, black, purple or whatever!! Imagine the characters as you please!!
It's all about people having this need to be part of a group, identity politics. For example, I'm vegan, I can speak and do nothing without bringing it up, I'm Christian, you will know this by the end of the first three sentencesnI speak to you. Everyone has to have a thing they are and they have subsumed their whole being into it......not me though, I'm a lover, I'm a fighter, I'm a sinner, I'm a saint....!
Well, if you can't keep your mouth shut about deeply personal things that we don't want to know about you, we can at least avoid you without a lot of production. Here's a hint - no one cares about what church you go to or what you eat - seriously, people just flat out don't care if you worship trees and eat only nasturtiums. ...///... People who overshare on first acquaintance are just boring. If all you have to talk about is yourself, then you're in for a lonely time of it.
Load More Replies...I find it little bit ill to contemplate sexual preferencies of puppets from a children TV show. Sorry.
I feel like his comment "they're not, of course" was weird and sounds like it could be construed as "they're straight because that's normal", which I feel like people might have been latching onto, though I think his implication might have been "they're puppets for kids, they don't have a sexuality". It would have been safer to say "I never thought of them as gay" or "I never thought of them having a sexuality".
Either way, I find it kind of bizarre that people are getting after the guy being all "the characters ARE gay because I WANT THEM TO BE!" I never personally saw Bert and Ernie as a representation of gay characters (all I thought was that I didn't really like them as well as some other Sesame Street characters), and I don't really understand the idea of them being representation for you when you're a kid unless these people are watching Sesame Street into their slightly older years.
Load More Replies...There's an even MORE important question here.... Where did Barney Rubble really work? Only Fred goes to the quarry, after all. ...///.... Warner brothers cartoons have been censored by the networks to the point where you just don't see the classics any more.
Load More Replies...I 100% support gay rights but this is a witch hunt, if the characters are not gay then they're not gay.
Thank you. Wouldn’t it be nice to live in a world where you don’t have to wear your sexuality on a sign around your neck?
Load More Replies...People who attacked the author have no logic, are not reading his comments and just strongly decided to be offended because hatred is more fun.
Yea, it's like they wanted to feel hurt for no real reason. He straight up said it wasn't an issue if some people thought of them as gay despite him not writing them as gay. I don't see the problem. He was supportive either way and just answered the question honestly. It wasn't anything to get angry over.
Load More Replies...Honestly I couldn't care less if Bert & Ernie are gay, trans, brothers, cousins or father and son. They're puppets. So everybody can see them as they would like them to be. This isn't a major issue in this world. Some major issues are: The Dotard driving America into oblivion, People getting harrassed and killed by the police because of the color of their skin, the wars that are going on and killing thousands of people, companies destroying nature for monetary profit. Being concerned about the alledged sexual preferences of a puppet is just bigotry.
I agree this is ridiculous. He is the author, he created the characters, he says if they are gay or straight. And above all- why does it matter? It's a kid's show anyway, sex and sexual orientations should not be part of the equation.
Lol now this would be a hot take now- only 5 years later.
Load More Replies...The person that commented something along the lines of "say you hate the gays, you know you want to say it" like honestly what the f**k ? Now you're just twisting everything. Just because a person told that their creation isn't gay, doesn't mean they are homophobic you dumb piece of s**t. Not everyone has to be related to a gay or be gay in order to support and respect lgtbq+
"Oh do you have a girlfriend?" "Noo, I'm not queer" "Oh so you hate queer people" "No! I just said *I* am not queer" "But you look and act queer in my perception so you must be!!" "But I'm not!!!" "Homophobe!! How can you not be queer when you look queer to me!" Exactly what is going on here. So dumb.
I equate some of these "arguments" like when JK Rowling came out and said that Dumbledore was gay. Who cares? Great that she made him so, but again, that wasn't the main line of the story. Bert and Ernie are two Muppets who have taught many how to count, about colors, and countless other educational lessons. Why do people feel the need to label everything and everyone?
I feel like only Americans have debates like this. We are literally reading an ongoing debate about the sexuality of two puppets on a toddlers tv show. I'm a lesbian. But ask me if I give two craps about this. Nope.
You know what I think it is? They have too much free time and they have that time because they have money. If they were poor they would be out there working or looking for a job instead of spending their time arguing, protesting, suing etc.
Load More Replies...This is setting a truly ridiculous precedent. Now we comb through beloved children's characters to argue whether their sexuality is presented progressively enough!? For someone who's a bit of an old-school leftie I'm finding the left extremely tiring recently
Well, maybe it's time you moved into that cave you've had an eye on for so long.
Load More Replies...I always saw Bert and Ernie as puppet versions of The Odd Couple -- Felix and Oscar lived together for years, and no one called them "gay". Straight men live together all the time. Janet and Chrissy on "Three's Company" lived together, and they weren't gay. Same with Laverne and Shirley. So why are 2 men living together assumed to be gay? Some folks need to get over it already.
I saw them as roommates too. Never made the "Odd Couple" connection, that's brilliant! :D
Load More Replies......what the heck did I just read? A prolonged discussion about whether 2 puppets(...toys. Dolls. Things made for amusement of kids who likely do not yet even know such complicated words as "homosexual") are gay or not and how important that is for the society?o_O ......I'm sorry, what? Also that was a brilliant argument "they're not gay - OMG YOU HATE GAYS????" Wow...just wow
they're puppet! for the love of god... do we have to create a love life for PUPPET too? And Big bird ? and Cookie Monster? people need to get a life
Big bird is definitely gay. Seriously....look at him. He's more swish than RuPaul.
Load More Replies...Yup, this is about the sexual orientation of a stuffed puppet.......
Load More Replies...Self Identifying is one thing, labeling others as you wish them to be is ridiculous
What is wrong with people nowadays? Seriously. We live in a world where a man and a woman cannot be friends, otherwise they will be labelled as the “friendzoned” boy and the “exploiter” girl. Neither can men be close friends, not without being dubbed as a “gay couple”. Why does everything needs to have a sexual implication? Are people really that emotionally limited that if two individuals are close then there is no other explanation to it beside physical attraction? It really annoys me that we keep turning human relationship into a massive sexual attraction ground, without realizing that intersubjective bonding goes way beyond that. And that mentality is everywhere. Look, for example, at The Big Bang Theory series, where the character is called a “weirdo” because he didn’t show enticement for sexual intercourse, being considered slightest “normal” once he did find a girlfriend and induced in said activities. Is that all there is in human socialization? It does make me kind of sad.
You make some good points but being in the "Friend Zone" is not the same as being firends with someone of the opposite sex, it's when you like someone but they only want to be friends with you.
Load More Replies...I think he did well here to confront the masses. Its a difficult position to be in and made me think of J.K Rowling and the ethnicity of her characters. On one hand you want your work to be just that, your work, your vision, your static art. But on the other hand you also have to be aware that people will interpret it differently and then you have to decide what's important to you and what's important to your fans. He could have been a god by changing the characters to be gay and celebrated by so many. But instead he stuck to the original vision which is important but I think leaving the question unanswered could have been the best way here. Who knows
its a childrens show why would you put such pressure on this , let children be children and laugh and smile and be amused by a simple childrens show don't over think . everyone today wants to push their thoughts and ideas onto everyone else . do you people realize we're free thinkers and allowed to make our own thoughts and ideas . stop forcing your ideals onto people thinking you are right . . we should be allowed to grow and make choices without outside ideas being pushed upon us . today world is becoming so ridiculous with all this sensitivity and correctness. society is going to fall apart in 20 years if his continues.
It's ridiculous that people get angry because "they're not gay"... uhm... how do you know the rest of the puppets are "straight"? It's stupid!! NONE of the puppets have a romantic/sexual relationship in the show!! So... how do you know they are straight?? Maybe I want to imagine the Cookie Monster is trans! Maybe I want to imagine Abby Caddaby is lesbian! And there is NO evidence of them having either sexual orientation!!
Would you like it any more or less if they were? They're puppets. Pretty sure puppets are asexual.
Thank you, Frank, for creating such wonderful characters to help so many children.
I............. What??? This was somewhat confussing. I understand inclusion is important, but I just can't understand this trend of demanding the creators to turn any certain character into queer. It's okay if they're queer in your mind, it's okay if there's a fandom who shares queer headcanons about it, but is it necessay to make EVERYONE (including the author/creator) agree with you? This is ridiculous.
so Frank and Jim created the characters, as nothing more than characters, they don't come with a start middle and end, they're just characters on a show. Mark wrote scripts for them for the show, the way he found it easier to show interaction and a relationship was to assume they were gay, this made it easier to write about two male characters living together, but I guess assuming they're gay isn't the same as them being gay. I mean all formats are open to interpretation, that's the beauty of art. A song like Born in the USA might mean patriotism to one person, but it's actually about the atrocities of the Vietnam war and Bruce's disgust of his countries involvement in it. The thing is, it can mean both to both people and it doesn't take away any of the greatness of the song. Same with Bert and Ernie, if you think they're gay, straight, tv characters, puppets, muppets, whatever, that's fine. If you need a truth about them though, be prepared for it. If you don't need it, that's also ok
They're living together, but they don't seem to have any romantic feelings towards each other, and they sleep in their own beds. If it would be absolutely necessary to identify the sexual orientation of fictional characters from little children's tv shows, I would opt for "asexual".
Frank, don't listen to the arrogant ppl out there! There are ppl that just wants to destroy the good that you have CREATED years ago and bash you till you feel something you shouldn't. Sexual orientation is a huge thing now and ppl want to crush others that are doing wonderful things! I was raised watching Sesame street as a child and so did many others and they never thought they were gay or even crossed their minds cause it wasn't. Now, they try to pick apart that is something good and make it disgusting!
How do gay puppets "destroy" your childhood? Please explain in detail. Why are you so frightened to consider it?
Load More Replies...You can't force someone else to confirm to your own world view. Especially the freaking creator of that object. You don't get to just claim things and relable what it is even if it means something to you. Yes.. even the LGBT+ community doesn't get to just claim things and relable them as queer. It's stupid, cringe and disrespectful no matter who is doing it.
"Why point it out if it doesn't matter?" Says the hundreds of people who had been shouting "YAY They're GAY" from the rooftops.
Only on social media could a couple of kids puppets become controversial. Yes, I realize I'm using social media to say this.
Burt and Earnie are puppets. They have no brains. They have no feelings. It wasn’t about the puppets, it was about the story line. People just need to shut the hell up.
I totally support the Elsa from Frozen demand. Too bad Anna is her sister. They would totally be the couple from the fairy tale wedding story: https://www.boredpanda.com/female-cosplayers-wedding-photos/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=organic
Last I heard, Burt was evil, how 'bout we conflate THAT, see how they like it! https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/bert-is-evil
I find it annoying how so many people keep saying "they don't want to be labeled", and that we should love each other "just for being human", and all that... but... those people are so fixated with having people explicitly defined as "gay/straight/queer/bi/trans...". I also imagined E & B as brothers when I was a kid. I think Frank Oz just imagined 2 puppets living together, that's it. The viewer can imagine their lives and relationship as they please. It's like those people getting all crazy just because a black actress (Noma Dumezweni) was chosen to play Hermione, instead of someone who looks like Emma Watson. In the books, it never says if the character is white, black, purple or whatever!! Imagine the characters as you please!!
It's all about people having this need to be part of a group, identity politics. For example, I'm vegan, I can speak and do nothing without bringing it up, I'm Christian, you will know this by the end of the first three sentencesnI speak to you. Everyone has to have a thing they are and they have subsumed their whole being into it......not me though, I'm a lover, I'm a fighter, I'm a sinner, I'm a saint....!
Well, if you can't keep your mouth shut about deeply personal things that we don't want to know about you, we can at least avoid you without a lot of production. Here's a hint - no one cares about what church you go to or what you eat - seriously, people just flat out don't care if you worship trees and eat only nasturtiums. ...///... People who overshare on first acquaintance are just boring. If all you have to talk about is yourself, then you're in for a lonely time of it.
Load More Replies...I find it little bit ill to contemplate sexual preferencies of puppets from a children TV show. Sorry.
I feel like his comment "they're not, of course" was weird and sounds like it could be construed as "they're straight because that's normal", which I feel like people might have been latching onto, though I think his implication might have been "they're puppets for kids, they don't have a sexuality". It would have been safer to say "I never thought of them as gay" or "I never thought of them having a sexuality".
Either way, I find it kind of bizarre that people are getting after the guy being all "the characters ARE gay because I WANT THEM TO BE!" I never personally saw Bert and Ernie as a representation of gay characters (all I thought was that I didn't really like them as well as some other Sesame Street characters), and I don't really understand the idea of them being representation for you when you're a kid unless these people are watching Sesame Street into their slightly older years.
Load More Replies...There's an even MORE important question here.... Where did Barney Rubble really work? Only Fred goes to the quarry, after all. ...///.... Warner brothers cartoons have been censored by the networks to the point where you just don't see the classics any more.
Load More Replies...
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