Mansplainer Too Smug For His Own Good “Lays Down” Phone Usage Etiquette In Court To Woman Who Turns Out To Be A Judge
While back in the day being a smart-ass in public often led to some success, depending on the public, being one nowadays, especially on the internet, is certain doom.
Not only will you be schooled on multiple levels by educated internauts, but you’ll also have to deal with the shame you’ve just experienced. So, don’t do it.
But this is exactly what happened on Twitter lately, and though the moral of the story is ‘don’t be a smart-ass,’ it also carries a deeper message of the current state of unconscious gender bias.
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While you’d think gender bias wouldn’t be a problem in 2022, it is, and this judge went to Twitter to talk about it
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English arbitrator and founder of Greener Arbitrations, Lucy Greenwood, has recently gone to Twitter to discuss one issue, which spun off into a completely different one.
She explained that her daughter became ill at school, and so the school decided to call Lucy and explain the situation, most likely with the intention of telling her to come pick the daughter up.
Now, before the call even happened, the daughter explicitly said that her mom wouldn’t pick up the phone, so they’d better call dad. In spite of this, the school insisted on calling mom. The tweet was accompanied by the hashtag #BreakTheBias. This also happened on International Women’s Day.
However, amidst the discussion, a tweeter popped up who didn’t get what the big deal was
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With the tweet, she aimed to point out how there is a ‘default’ to calling the mom first instead of the dad. And while many came to point out that there is no bias issue, and that there is a much simpler explanation—schools call the first number in the contact list.
Now, Lucy did point out that her daughter specifically said that they should call her dad because her mom wouldn’t pick up. Besides this, she is also quite sure the dad is first on the list. So whatever reasoning the school assumed is a bit of a mystery in this case.
It did cause a bit of a debate among tweeters, but not as much as the next thing that happened once Twitter user @realBREXITnow joined the party several hours later.
One back-and-forth later, the person still wasn’t getting that not everyone can pick up a phone at work, especially in court
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Until this inevitable ‘mic drop’ happened that made everybody’s day better
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What effectively happened is the user said no matter what, if it was them at work and they got a call from the school, they’d know it was serious and they would pick up. End of story.
Well, some back-and-forth later, multiple people tried to explain that you can’t just stop doing whatever you’re doing in court and ask the judge to give you a time-out as there are court rules, and, besides, she would have missed the call in any case as phones are often not allowed for safety and efficiency reasons.
The person wasn’t buying any of it, until Lucy herself chimed in with a very brief, but very accurate explanation on the situation—she was the judge. And with that Twitter instantly went like everyone in the Supa Hot Fire meme and, needless to say, they loved it.
Needless to say, people on Twitter loved it, roasting the person even further
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But we digress as the Twitter thread seems to have gone viral because of the issue of unconscious gender bias. Besides everyone pointing out it might just be the contact order in the school’s registry, there were those who shared similar gender bias stories.
Regardless of reaction, the original tweet managed to get over 103,000 likes with 8,000 plus retweets in a day. There currently aren’t any more responses by Lucy regarding the issue, save for her retweet of one of the reactions to the thread by Katherine de Vos Devine, who said it was the International Women’s Day content she wanted.
But back to the topic at hand—the school defaulted to calling the mom, despite being told not to, leading to discussions and stories online
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So, what are your thoughts on this? Do you think the school was being biased, or was it just the case of them dialing the first number? Let us know your thoughts in the comment section below!
Englands brexiters are americas trumpers. You could tell the tone of entitlement and as*holishness stupidity right away.
No country is immune to the folly of mankind. We all got our village idiots.
Load More Replies...I love how the title of the post just kept getting worse and worse. "Person Tried To Mansplain The Rules Of Using A Phone. In A Courtroom. To A Judge."
There are ways to admit being wrong: "Thanks for the heads up, I didn't know"; "I stand corrected"; "I defer to your expertise"; "Thanks, I learned something new"; "Thanks for the explanation, much appreciated"; "Good point, I hadn't thought of that". That's a bit more graceful than doubling down and waiting to be struck down.
The first step to solving a problem is admitting you have one. Most people can't get to step one. Cognitive dissonance doesn't help either. Don't bother looking it up, you're just going to find evidence that it's exactly what you think it is.
Load More Replies...The bigger issue, in my opinion, is that she school refused to call the Dad, even after the kid explained to them that her Mum was in a hearing. Both my wife and I are listed as emergency contacts for our son's school. Not once have they called me.
On the actual thread of this there were school and daycare workers that were explicitly told, you phone mum even if dad is first contact. And if you phone dad make sure and ring mum after. It's ridiculous. Not only does it reinforce the opinion that womens work is less important, so it's OK to interrupt them, but it makes men out to be incompetent parents incapable of looking after their own kids.
Load More Replies...It's not just courtooms where people can't take personal calls, I work in an ICU taking personal calls is highly discouraged as emergencies happen all the time, and leaving early for a non-emergent family issue is just Not Done. There's almost no flexibility, nurse-to-patient ratios are mandated by law, and if anyone leaves early another nurse has to take their assignment, and it's not like anyone is sitting around with nothing to do but take someone else's assignment. Even leaving early because you've been taken deathly ill and have to go to the ER causes huge problems.
On the positive side, I'm impressed by the number of dads who are stepping up and asserting that they want to be called first. My husband is generally very progressive and supportive of my career. But I have to say if he has a busy work week, he decides he simply doesn't have time for anything else (cleaning, pet care, bill paying, etc.). Which makes it my job, regardless of how busy my work week is.
Same. But he always has time for golf or to hit the gym on the regular.
Load More Replies...Yes, biased. The kid told them who to call. My kid had to leave school during the day, and she told them to call her retired grandmother, who is on the contact list. They insisted on calling me, her mother. I am a teacher. At my kid's school. People need to listen to what kids have to say.
In the Netherlands schools ask parents which person they should call first in case of emergencies. They don't assume that the mother is first person to call. I've seen contact lists where fathers, grandparents or even aunts and uncles were listed as first person to contact.
If you look at the comments in the article, they are filled with stories about the dad being #1 on the call list but the school still calling the mom first.
Load More Replies...I, my daughter's father, was always the contact whenever she became ill. I would not have had it any other way. I got the rest of the day off and could spend time with my daughter sitting on the floor, eating cereal out of the boxes, and watching game shows on TV. It doesn't get any better than that.
Especially these days, why are the moms being called first even if they are #2 on the call list? Lots of dads working from home now...
I was a Pastor during our 2 kids' 16 combined years in school. I had the flex time. Mom was always working weird hours away from home. But in all those years, I was never called when there were problems at school. "They" always tried and tried to call Mom first!
My wife works nights, I am the #1 contact on our kids school paperwork. Only one that calls me first is my youngest, and that's because her teacher is a friend of mine going on 20 years, the other schools always contact me 2nd even though we put on the form "mom works nights, do not call unless an urgent matter. If just ill and needs picked up exhaust all other options first"
Child of a single father, my mum lived in a different state, the high school I went to called my mum to ask her to come and pick me up because I was sick, my mum just said sure, I'll just jump on a plane and fly 2000 kms, and then said to the school, what is wrong with you, ring her father, he has full custody.
Children can speak intelligently. Even when I take my child to the doctor, I have them explain to the doctor what is bothering them. It's empowering for them to do so. They're great communicators. I know my kids tell the school to call me because they know I can & will drop everything if they need me & that I'm the softy. But yes, the gender bias. So infuriating
Reminds me of the argument I had with two men who were insisting that only courts could bail people, and not police. I assured them that the majority of people who are bailed are bailed by police (this is in Australia, I know it's different in the US), on their own undertaking to be of good behaviour and turn up to court. Told them I was a lawyer and dealt with this all the time. They abused me, asked if I got my law degree online. I gave them links to the relevant legislation and to information from legal aid that said exactly what I was saying. Refused to believe me and kept abusing me. I'm sure if I was man they would have accepted it. Also, they were so wedded to their fable that 'left wing judges' let vicious criminals out on bail that they couldn't accept that it might actually be a police or voluntary bail justice decision, and that they might have had good reasons for bailing someone who then went on to commit serious crimes.
Same in Sweden. Doesnt matter if they are specifically told to call dad and his number is first. They.Always.Call.Me .
Could I add that the child asked the school to call the father? Why did the school ignore the child?
Because some people still believe that Dads are incapable of looking after their own kids.
Load More Replies...If a child tells a school which parent to call the school should f***ing listen. They know best. And it is extremly sexist always to call the mother first. So this school was very sexist.
I'm not a parent, so never had this problem. Most responses seemed to be from the UK. Is it the same in the US?
Yes. A few years ago I worked at an office over an hour drive from home. I updated the contact order from me to my husband as first contact the my MIL because they was closer. For 3 years they still contacted me. My child broke his arm and they called me while I was in an hour meeting. I called an hour later and they hadn't called my husband! After I tore into them they started following the correct order.
Load More Replies...I suddenly feel really lucky. I was ill a lot due to medical problems my last two years at school so school days were often cut in half for me. My school ALWAYS asked who I wanted them to call first, which was good because my dad worked flexible hours 5 mins away compared to my mum who didn't and was 1hr away
Can someone teach me how to "clap sarcastically"? I'd really like to learn that.
Makes anyone feel better.... I'm legal guardian of both my boys. I have entered constantly on the paper work with the judges paper work behind my backing to contact just me. No one else unless it's an emergency and you can't contact me. Got a call yesterday....can i talk to MR Mason. No no you can't. He is sick. I have legal custody. And you need to talk to me. Well we can't because of our paper work. Wake husband up. He is pssied and sick as f**k. You need to talk to my wife their legal guardian but law. She has a signed document with you filed. You talk to her. Excuse me while I throw up. Person finally gets to talk to me. All for a meeting about good grades and moving a grade up. Are you f*****g kidding me???!!!!
I don't get this - I have worked in several schools, and have needed to call home many many times. In every single case, I start with the first number on the list. Parents and caregivers are asked to fill out contacts in this way. For an older child with a minor problem, I call whoever they want me to (provided it is on list). For younger children or serious problems, it is always contact as listed. Often grandparents numbers are listed first if both parents work.
Gender bias exists and likely is a factor here (if not the sole explanation),... but another factor (which might also be traced back to gender bias I suppose) is that people in authoritative positions and/or people who are experts do not like being told what to do by the person that seeks their help. If you suggest what you think might be the issue with your car when you take it to the mechanic, more often then not the mechanic will consider everything but what you suggested. If you suggest to a doctor what you think is wrong with you, they usually dismiss it from the list of possibilities. The daughter telling the school staff to call the dad may have been a factor in the staff refusing to do so. If it had been I boy saying to call his father would it have happened? Perhaps not.
As someone who worked in a Operating room. Surgeons do answer their phone in the OR. They just have a nurse hold the phone up to their ear for them.( Just saying this so people know that it's not all work back there). They also blast music, joke around, and take pictures of their finished work to brag to other surgeons.
Pretty sure it's illegal to have any device capable of recording with you in a court in the UK, so you don't even get to the point of whether the judge will let you take the call. You won't have your phone with you to know you're being called.
I worked in a nurseries in Dubai. Unless child's paper would specifically say call dad first, i would dial the mum and if she didn't answer i would definitely call dad
There was no "mansplaining" in this article. Yes, the individual was arrogant and unpleasant but, funnily enough, that type of arrogant behaviour is not limited to men. It is also displayed, just as often, by women, trans-women and LBTQ+ people. When are people going to understand that using terms like "mansplaining" is insulting to men in general and is sexist and offensive. People who use such terms are clearly bigoted, self-important, entitled hypocrites .
God poor you. Poor oppressed sad you. Is everyone picking on men and america all the time. You feel discriminated against. You didn't understand this story at all bc you were too worried you were being oppressed. Feel so sad for men in America they have no rights anymore. Especially white men. They can't be 95% if the CEOs they can't be 85% of the highest paid workforce they can't be 85% if the govt and judges. So sad for you that you have no more opportunities anymore. Did you ever think Americans are made fun of bc of people like you?
Load More Replies...Thank you for explaining that! Now it makes sense!
Load More Replies...It doesn't matter who is the perpetrator. We are aware that internalized misogyny exists. Addressing the bias is important whether that bias comes from a man or a woman.
Load More Replies...Englands brexiters are americas trumpers. You could tell the tone of entitlement and as*holishness stupidity right away.
No country is immune to the folly of mankind. We all got our village idiots.
Load More Replies...I love how the title of the post just kept getting worse and worse. "Person Tried To Mansplain The Rules Of Using A Phone. In A Courtroom. To A Judge."
There are ways to admit being wrong: "Thanks for the heads up, I didn't know"; "I stand corrected"; "I defer to your expertise"; "Thanks, I learned something new"; "Thanks for the explanation, much appreciated"; "Good point, I hadn't thought of that". That's a bit more graceful than doubling down and waiting to be struck down.
The first step to solving a problem is admitting you have one. Most people can't get to step one. Cognitive dissonance doesn't help either. Don't bother looking it up, you're just going to find evidence that it's exactly what you think it is.
Load More Replies...The bigger issue, in my opinion, is that she school refused to call the Dad, even after the kid explained to them that her Mum was in a hearing. Both my wife and I are listed as emergency contacts for our son's school. Not once have they called me.
On the actual thread of this there were school and daycare workers that were explicitly told, you phone mum even if dad is first contact. And if you phone dad make sure and ring mum after. It's ridiculous. Not only does it reinforce the opinion that womens work is less important, so it's OK to interrupt them, but it makes men out to be incompetent parents incapable of looking after their own kids.
Load More Replies...It's not just courtooms where people can't take personal calls, I work in an ICU taking personal calls is highly discouraged as emergencies happen all the time, and leaving early for a non-emergent family issue is just Not Done. There's almost no flexibility, nurse-to-patient ratios are mandated by law, and if anyone leaves early another nurse has to take their assignment, and it's not like anyone is sitting around with nothing to do but take someone else's assignment. Even leaving early because you've been taken deathly ill and have to go to the ER causes huge problems.
On the positive side, I'm impressed by the number of dads who are stepping up and asserting that they want to be called first. My husband is generally very progressive and supportive of my career. But I have to say if he has a busy work week, he decides he simply doesn't have time for anything else (cleaning, pet care, bill paying, etc.). Which makes it my job, regardless of how busy my work week is.
Same. But he always has time for golf or to hit the gym on the regular.
Load More Replies...Yes, biased. The kid told them who to call. My kid had to leave school during the day, and she told them to call her retired grandmother, who is on the contact list. They insisted on calling me, her mother. I am a teacher. At my kid's school. People need to listen to what kids have to say.
In the Netherlands schools ask parents which person they should call first in case of emergencies. They don't assume that the mother is first person to call. I've seen contact lists where fathers, grandparents or even aunts and uncles were listed as first person to contact.
If you look at the comments in the article, they are filled with stories about the dad being #1 on the call list but the school still calling the mom first.
Load More Replies...I, my daughter's father, was always the contact whenever she became ill. I would not have had it any other way. I got the rest of the day off and could spend time with my daughter sitting on the floor, eating cereal out of the boxes, and watching game shows on TV. It doesn't get any better than that.
Especially these days, why are the moms being called first even if they are #2 on the call list? Lots of dads working from home now...
I was a Pastor during our 2 kids' 16 combined years in school. I had the flex time. Mom was always working weird hours away from home. But in all those years, I was never called when there were problems at school. "They" always tried and tried to call Mom first!
My wife works nights, I am the #1 contact on our kids school paperwork. Only one that calls me first is my youngest, and that's because her teacher is a friend of mine going on 20 years, the other schools always contact me 2nd even though we put on the form "mom works nights, do not call unless an urgent matter. If just ill and needs picked up exhaust all other options first"
Child of a single father, my mum lived in a different state, the high school I went to called my mum to ask her to come and pick me up because I was sick, my mum just said sure, I'll just jump on a plane and fly 2000 kms, and then said to the school, what is wrong with you, ring her father, he has full custody.
Children can speak intelligently. Even when I take my child to the doctor, I have them explain to the doctor what is bothering them. It's empowering for them to do so. They're great communicators. I know my kids tell the school to call me because they know I can & will drop everything if they need me & that I'm the softy. But yes, the gender bias. So infuriating
Reminds me of the argument I had with two men who were insisting that only courts could bail people, and not police. I assured them that the majority of people who are bailed are bailed by police (this is in Australia, I know it's different in the US), on their own undertaking to be of good behaviour and turn up to court. Told them I was a lawyer and dealt with this all the time. They abused me, asked if I got my law degree online. I gave them links to the relevant legislation and to information from legal aid that said exactly what I was saying. Refused to believe me and kept abusing me. I'm sure if I was man they would have accepted it. Also, they were so wedded to their fable that 'left wing judges' let vicious criminals out on bail that they couldn't accept that it might actually be a police or voluntary bail justice decision, and that they might have had good reasons for bailing someone who then went on to commit serious crimes.
Same in Sweden. Doesnt matter if they are specifically told to call dad and his number is first. They.Always.Call.Me .
Could I add that the child asked the school to call the father? Why did the school ignore the child?
Because some people still believe that Dads are incapable of looking after their own kids.
Load More Replies...If a child tells a school which parent to call the school should f***ing listen. They know best. And it is extremly sexist always to call the mother first. So this school was very sexist.
I'm not a parent, so never had this problem. Most responses seemed to be from the UK. Is it the same in the US?
Yes. A few years ago I worked at an office over an hour drive from home. I updated the contact order from me to my husband as first contact the my MIL because they was closer. For 3 years they still contacted me. My child broke his arm and they called me while I was in an hour meeting. I called an hour later and they hadn't called my husband! After I tore into them they started following the correct order.
Load More Replies...I suddenly feel really lucky. I was ill a lot due to medical problems my last two years at school so school days were often cut in half for me. My school ALWAYS asked who I wanted them to call first, which was good because my dad worked flexible hours 5 mins away compared to my mum who didn't and was 1hr away
Can someone teach me how to "clap sarcastically"? I'd really like to learn that.
Makes anyone feel better.... I'm legal guardian of both my boys. I have entered constantly on the paper work with the judges paper work behind my backing to contact just me. No one else unless it's an emergency and you can't contact me. Got a call yesterday....can i talk to MR Mason. No no you can't. He is sick. I have legal custody. And you need to talk to me. Well we can't because of our paper work. Wake husband up. He is pssied and sick as f**k. You need to talk to my wife their legal guardian but law. She has a signed document with you filed. You talk to her. Excuse me while I throw up. Person finally gets to talk to me. All for a meeting about good grades and moving a grade up. Are you f*****g kidding me???!!!!
I don't get this - I have worked in several schools, and have needed to call home many many times. In every single case, I start with the first number on the list. Parents and caregivers are asked to fill out contacts in this way. For an older child with a minor problem, I call whoever they want me to (provided it is on list). For younger children or serious problems, it is always contact as listed. Often grandparents numbers are listed first if both parents work.
Gender bias exists and likely is a factor here (if not the sole explanation),... but another factor (which might also be traced back to gender bias I suppose) is that people in authoritative positions and/or people who are experts do not like being told what to do by the person that seeks their help. If you suggest what you think might be the issue with your car when you take it to the mechanic, more often then not the mechanic will consider everything but what you suggested. If you suggest to a doctor what you think is wrong with you, they usually dismiss it from the list of possibilities. The daughter telling the school staff to call the dad may have been a factor in the staff refusing to do so. If it had been I boy saying to call his father would it have happened? Perhaps not.
As someone who worked in a Operating room. Surgeons do answer their phone in the OR. They just have a nurse hold the phone up to their ear for them.( Just saying this so people know that it's not all work back there). They also blast music, joke around, and take pictures of their finished work to brag to other surgeons.
Pretty sure it's illegal to have any device capable of recording with you in a court in the UK, so you don't even get to the point of whether the judge will let you take the call. You won't have your phone with you to know you're being called.
I worked in a nurseries in Dubai. Unless child's paper would specifically say call dad first, i would dial the mum and if she didn't answer i would definitely call dad
There was no "mansplaining" in this article. Yes, the individual was arrogant and unpleasant but, funnily enough, that type of arrogant behaviour is not limited to men. It is also displayed, just as often, by women, trans-women and LBTQ+ people. When are people going to understand that using terms like "mansplaining" is insulting to men in general and is sexist and offensive. People who use such terms are clearly bigoted, self-important, entitled hypocrites .
God poor you. Poor oppressed sad you. Is everyone picking on men and america all the time. You feel discriminated against. You didn't understand this story at all bc you were too worried you were being oppressed. Feel so sad for men in America they have no rights anymore. Especially white men. They can't be 95% if the CEOs they can't be 85% of the highest paid workforce they can't be 85% if the govt and judges. So sad for you that you have no more opportunities anymore. Did you ever think Americans are made fun of bc of people like you?
Load More Replies...Thank you for explaining that! Now it makes sense!
Load More Replies...It doesn't matter who is the perpetrator. We are aware that internalized misogyny exists. Addressing the bias is important whether that bias comes from a man or a woman.
Load More Replies...
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