Person Explains How Toxic Hollywood’s Male Beauty Standards Are, Others Join In With Examples
Pop culture can fill our vulnerable minds with all kinds of incorrect and unhealthy ideas about how we and our lives are supposed to look.
But when actress Natalie Dormer made a statement on the issue saying that men are objectified as much as women, even she probably didn’t know the stir she was about to cause online.
Take this particular Tumblr thread for example. Drawing on the point Dormer made, it calls out movies and TV shows for the stereotypes that they perpetuate when it comes to unrealistic male standards, especially their physicality.
The people who participated in it perfectly explained why looks are not the most important thing in the world and why it’s much more important to focus on your health instead.
You could say this discussion started during an interview Dormer did with Radio Times, where the actress responded to Emma Thompson’s previous comments about ageism and sexism in film. Thompson initially said that “some forms of sexism and unpleasantness to women have become more entrenched and indeed more prevalent,” and that overall, opportunities for women are “still completely s**t.”
Dormer added that, from what she has seen, male actors face just as much objectification as women. “My personal experience has been to work on phenomenal jobs in which the men are objectified as much as the women. Actors suffer from it, too,” Dormer told Radio Times.
And while it’s up for debate if men and women have it equally bad, you can’t deny that society demands that men have an unrealistic physique. I mean, the looks men are chasing are literally named after gods and superheroes.
Which brings us to the conversation Bored Panda had with Dr. Esther De Dauw, a scholar working on superheroes, gender, race, and anti-hegemonic narratives. She has no doubt that men are objectified in mainstream media but thinks there actually is a difference between the ways movies and TV shows shape the image of a man and a woman. “Compared to the very narrow definition of beauty and femininity that women are pressured into, mainstream media still provides some variety of masculinity,” the co-authored of Toxic Masculinity: Mapping the Monstrous in Our Heroes said. “Think about the idea of the ‘dad bod’ – there’s no equivalent ‘mom bod.'”
De Dauw believes it’s also important to think about how men are objectified and how that’s different from the way women are objectified. “Mainstream media, especially blockbusters, portray men as physically powerful and to be in command of space at all time. Women are required to be small and pretty. Mainstream media reduces women to beauty objects, but it requires its men to more like action dolls. Women are a sex fantasy, men are a power fantasy – and actors are expected to look like that.”
“Is the pressure on men as intense as it is on women? Not yet – but it’s definitely getting there,” De Dauw said. “Increasingly, the ideal male standard is extremely buff and muscular. The Adonis Complex (Pope, Phillips, and Olivardia), discusses how there’s been a steady rise in eating disorders, abuse of steroids, and gym addiction in young men who are obsessed with being as big as possible and the negative impact this has on their lives.”
De Dauw said that male beauty standards are a huge part of toxic masculinity. “We still very often think of our identity as being grounded in our body. The way we look reflects who we are and in terms of gender identity; we consider our bodies to say something about who we are as women (including trans women), men (including trans men), non-binary, or other gender identities,” she explained. “The push towards the powerful, muscular body is all about establishing masculinity that is based on strength, endurance, and its ability to be violent – all those qualities that, taken to their extremes, can be very toxic to men and the people in their environments. The pressure to fit this very specific standard is leading to an increase in eating disorders and steroid abuse amongst young men because they’re afraid of not being manly enough – and the fear of not being manly enough pushing you to do unhealthy things is a cornerstone of toxic masculinity.”
If you want to read more on the subject, Toxic Masculinity has various chapters on the body and how it impacts toxic masculinity as a whole, plus De Dauw has written about this in her own book Hot Pants and Spandex Suits.
Rob Ledonne wrote in GQ that pretty much every issue of any fitness magazine has some variation of the words “Get” and “Abs” and “Now.” Fire up a Zac Efron movie, he said, and Zac will take off his shirt in at least one scene, even in the trailer for a movie in which he plays the serial killer Ted Bundy.
And even if we try to escape all of these images and go, for example, to the beach, we sit down and our reptilian brain adjusts our bodies so that our bellies don’t appear too big.
“There is nothing inherently wrong with wanting our body to reflect who we are as people. Many of us experience a positive sense of self-expression when we cut our hair, get a piercing, a tattoo, or even just picking an outfit,” De Dauw said. “There’s also nothing wrong with working out, becoming stronger, and using that to get some self-confidence. Having respect for your body and its strength is a healthy thing.”
But your body is just a part of you. “Your worth isn’t determined by whether or not you have a six-pack or fit into that size 8,” De Dauw stressed. “You are not defined by the beauty ideals that you see all around you. And that is true for both men and women.”
Image credits: brunhiddensmusings
Here’s what people have been saying about the thread on other platforms
This is a feeling, not a fact, but it seems to me that while we might expect men to look like this in the movies, most straight women are not expecting their men to look like this in real life, and are not actively searching for men with these unrealistic body types. However, I DO feel that a vast number of straight men expect movie stars and their dates to look exactly the same.
I feel the same. I don"t find that super beefed-up look attractive at all, but I know many men who think women on tv is how we all should look like. But I think porn is contributing to this issue a lot as well. A friend shared that a man she knows said watching porn makes him feel depressed, because porn stars get to have sex with "angels", while men like him have "crocodiles" for partners. Too many men don't care that women generally don't look like that without tons of make-up and plastic surgery.
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The problem with this argument is that men are ALSO given other options by Hollywood that are still held up as sex symbols: the "dad bod" style of Seth Rogan or the old-man style of Clooney or the sensitive man style of Colin Firth, etc. Women are given ONE style to look like: Under 35, excessively thin, long hair.
Add: lanky, nerdy guys like Adam Driver. Plenty of alternative looks held up as male sex symbols. It is nowhere near the same level of toxicity for men.
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I’ve always thought this, but was too scared to talk about it because I know when a lot of people think one thing and I’m the only one in the conversation that thinks the other thing, I’m not going to be able to prove my point.
I frequently feel like that too Queen - and agree with this post.
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Been saying this s**t for years. Men are treated just as bad as women. Sex sells and men aren't the only ones who have sex. What's worse is we're supposed to just "man it up" and not complain about it. We don't have support groups, we don't get government funded help, we don't have safe houses, and we get laughed at when it's talked about. The sheer irony is we get told all the time to express our feelings yet when we do, it's dismissed. Stop allowing toxic masculinity and stop enabling it.
You are right. But just to be fair: women don’t have support groups because the government said „Let’s create some and fund them.“ It was women who thought „We have a problem, we need support groups“ and then fought for funding. Same with safe houses. Nothing men cannot do too, they just have to start it instead of waiting for someone else to do it for them.
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I watched a film from 2003 last night and the male lead took his shirt off. I said to my (male) other half: don't you miss the times when male actors had a perfectly normal physique vs everyone being completely jacked?? ... he even admitted it, and he has been religiously trying to keep ripped for years (not for my sake, I couldnt care less)
I recommend British movies/TV as an antidote. Suddenly everyone looks like normal human beings on the street. So refreshing!
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Hold up, super hero movies are showing a ridiculous idealized body. Yea it's not a good thing to do to actors, but also, women generally don't expect men to look like that.
And those movies aren't "for" women at all. Natalie Dormer's a really good actress but anecdote is not data.
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these are incredibly dangerous expectations for men in television and film that can have long-lasting health implications for actors and stunt doubles.
Male actors don't have to look like this because women think it's sexy. Male actors have to look like this because of male power fantasies. Ever wondered what the main target audience is for Dragon Ball, most superhero movies etc? I don't know any woman who thinks Hugh Jackman's dehydrated raisin body is more attractive than a properly hydrated, healthy, moderately muscled guy's body who doesn't hit the gym 4 hours a day. I think those abusive male beauty expectations are terrible, but please don't blame women for this.
While this post is true. The problem it creates in our society is not as big as it is for unrealistic standards for women. Men still have more power than women and thus can try to impose these unrealistic standards. Also to the people trying to say that men's support groups don't exist because of women need to realize they don't exist because of men. This goes back to the men still have more power part. I think most women would be happy if men got help, but many men still have the "getting help is weak" mantra beaten into them by other men.
Who said those were the "perfect" bodies anyway? Ask the real people: men' s muscles of course are nice (to a lot of us), but when too defined, they look weird and painful. Same thing for women's bodies actually. Too much is...too much (others might disagree though, I don't know). Still, going to the extreme is supposedly for the audience's pleasure. Really?
A "perfect body?" Wouldn't that be the one that doesn't pass gas, shed dandruff, develop arthritis, diverticulitis, cancer, etc. etc.
Honestly I really didn't know about this! Super eye opening. I guess you could say objectification of people (especially in media) is a matter of body image and beauty standards, not sexism.
Aaaaand you'd be wrong, too. This s**t is optional for men but compulsory for women, and we have to stay 26 forever.
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The thing is as women we know these male bodies are not the norm. We like dad bods even more. But men seem to think it's ok to only like thin women for fear of being shamed or bc they believe women should look like actresses or models. We see it all the time. Rich old men w young fit women. Especially men that like to be seen. They will only date women in their 20s or younger and as soon as they hit 30 they're traded in. Regular men like to tell women they're fat old and ugly unprompted all the time. Fat men expect and feel entitled to a women that's thin. Women must have big boobs flat stomachs and bubble butts and also stay in their 20s for the rest of their lives in order to attract a man. Surveys that asked regular men what they're attracted to and it was 18-20 yr old young girls that are thin. Women surveyed said men in their 40s w a belly. The problem is men they're shaming themselves and shaming women. This is why feminism is important men need it too so the shaming stops
Men do this to show off to other men, not women. It's like those big huge trucks with huge stereos. Yeah, dude, all that makes me think is he's compensating. Plus, those toxic male standards are about getting BIGGER, while women are supposed to get as small as possible. Predator, prey, and the prey is helpfully increasing their vulnerability. Plus, remember how, in movies, women over the age of 40 vanish, while men get craggy and are considered attractive. There's at least two male cast members for every female role, and those roles are eye candy. So, no, men aren't as objectified as women, when they're being objectified by equals---not "girls creaming their pants"-----when women are basically being told to make themselves into attractive prey by predators. Oh, plus women aren't allowed to age. Men get rewarded. Women are simply left with no other standard.
I am currently after having a baby the chubbiest I've ever been in my life. So much for breastfeeding makes the kilos go away by magic. Nope, the chocolate binge eating sessions to produce mothers milk and stay awake for months on no sleep counter that. But even before due to huge boobs I could not even do half the moves needed in my flamenco class. At the same time I have mommy muscles more than I've ever had underneath that chubby just from carrying my 9kg baby around on one arm for hours every day. So kilos and circumference is just a moot. I'm quite sure that the body builders would have the same issues of reaching a pose because the huge pecs etc are in the way. My dad always admired Bruce Lee and kept saying that those kind of muscles might be much more strong than the gym bunnies muscle mountains. He himself was in his youth tall and lean and yet could throw 50kg sacks onto a truck (above his head) the whole day long while guys fresh from gym died on that move after 5 minutes.
I served in Iraq and we got to see this s**t in action. Some of the mercs had these huge pecs and biceps and strutted around, always brandishing weapons. The SF guys and the Ukrainian equivalent looked liked....ordinary guys, maybe slightly smaller. They could kill you with a paperclip. They also didn't get "made" instantly as Americans. They could eat normally. It was all about training and brains, and having huge muscles reduced manuverability and effectiveness. When they were sunbathing or something, they were all lean muscle mass. The Blackwater guys spent HOURS in the gym and for what? Those big muscles don't give you any advantage at all, plus they require time and equipment and calories to maintain.
Load More Replies... Speaking of the objectification of men, the Today Show had some Olympic Athletes on and Hods and Kathy Lee asked if they could apply oil to one of the participates. It made me cringe at the time and it still does years later. I remember thinking would that have been ok to do if it had been a male asking a woman if he could oil her up. Yuck. This behavior needs to stop all around.
Yeah, women exist in a world where Trump gets elected after bragging he's a rapist. Hoda and Kathy are not a trend.
Load More Replies... Except this is their job and almost all the roles mentioned are physical ones - captain America, fight club, wolverine etc. These are superheroes or is in the char description . Women are expected to look amazing in every role regardless of its physicality. Also when male actors gain weight or lose their super cut body they still get roles - look at Russell Crowe post Gladiator... or Hugh Jackman post Wolverine. Now I'm sure he hasn't gained much in Greatest Showman etc but even if he did he'd probably still get roles. Chubby Scarlett Johansen not so much.
I can honestly say while I appreciate Captain America & Thor, etc, I'd literally never expect a real life man to look like that. In fact, I think it would honestly not only intimidate me but I prefer softer cheek, baby faced guys. For most people it's the personality that seals the deal (here's looking at you Benedict Cumberbatch as Sherlock- *drools*) What I find repulsive is the double standards in behavior- man stalks ex girlfriend in his car while listening to sappy music = scary & dangerous. Girl does the same thing & it's the hit song "Drivers License" These little role reversals are everywhere and it's really not okay.
Not advocating for this, by any means. No one should have to deal with this. But by comparison, this is a very recent phenomenon. Also, if you think this is entirely or even mostly about the visual appetites of women, you're quite mistaken. This market is building men's insecurities and exploiting them the same as they've done to women for centuries.
Let's be real here...everything about Hollywood is unrealistic regardless of gender.
A guy I worked with told a story about being on the wrestling team. He was 12 lbs “over weight” for his match when he weighed in the morning of the match. Whatever the hell the trainers put him through, he lost the 12 lbs before the match took place. He won the match, but had to be rushed to the hospital afterward. Score one for the team?! 🙌😳
If you are not a body builder but have a strong core, you will probably have a keg instead of a six pack. Look at "The World's Strongest Man" competitors. Big, chunky, keg style abs, muscles that do the job
The male actors mentioned here all played characters who would be physically fit, though. Brad Pitt's character in Fight Club would need muscles. Channing Tatum wasn't playing a science teacher, he was playing a stripper, Chris Evans was playing Captain America. None of the actors mentioned have been required or expected to maintain that level of fitness for every movie they're in.
All these post below of people stating this is not a problem or it not as bad of a problem show exactly why this is a problem. Just because you think its not a big deal doesn't mean it isn't. No one likes to be dismissed when they have an issue. For every person on here dismissing the issue, you are part of the problem. Even if you feel this is not as big of an issues, you should at the very minimum acknowledge it is an issue and be understanding of it. So much hate just because men want to point out we get abused and assaulted too. We are not all macho men, we are not all assholes, we are in this alone with most men not even telling their SO of past problems. https://clintonwhitehouse3.archives.gov/women/gresources.html
EVERY PRESIDENT of the US has been male....but you want to whine you have nowhere to turn. Women could not even VOTE till 1919......but YOU have nowhere to turn, you say.
Load More Replies... And Victoria secret models do not eat for three days before a runway. What men and women go through to make money is crazy.
I was a paratrooper in my youth. Showed up at Jump school, all 155lbs of me. Saw several muscle bound guys and figured I did not have a chance. They were all gone by the end of the first day. No stamina, no endurance. Ten mile run? not a chance, or if they did make it that was it for the day. . Almost all of the graduates at wing parade were wiry little guys like me.
Apparently the men who run hollywood have no idea what women really want. There are a variety of facial looks that women are generally into, and frankly, there is a group of women that will find just about any face attractive. The majority of women don't really care about a 'hot bod' unless it is attached to a wonderful human being. All the women I know either prefer a wiry man, or a man with a bit of meat on him for cuddling. Honestly, if he can open a jar or help her up off the couch when she's pregnant or after surgery or something, that's plenty. Magic mike was only hot because they could dance. Do guys get how hot that is? You don't even have to be terribly attractive or even what is traditionally considered 'in shape'. A man that can dance? That's a good time in and out of the sheets.
Look at old photos of lumberjacks, people who did grueling work most musclemen today wouldn't last five minutes at. And btw, the Chinese ideal for a martial artist is "tiger back bear waist." You don't get fighting power with six pack abs, especially if you're using a spear or sword.
Society puts pressure on everyone to look and be a certain way. A lot of that was to do with cultural standards of beauty. To a degree its understandable, such as expecting people to follow good hygiene. But a lot of times it's unhealthy to hold people to such standards
"Society" isn't telling women they have to be a size 0 and stay 20 forever. "Society" isn't making male power fantasies for other men but blaming women.
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it makes me super upset when people assume dudes don't get self-conscious or anything like that. people are always putting up this facade that they support women's rights and feminism but real feminism requires attention to women's rights and the destigimentation of men and mental health.
Well this is eye opening, now I can educate my son of the unrealistic male bodies on the screen.
Or you could teach him to live a healthy life and attain whatever level of physical and mental success he's looking for. But hey, you do you.
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I 100% agree with this entire post. Everyone has these super unrealistic body standards, it’s crazy! And when someone says “oh boy men in Hollywood really have it bad” someone else goes “oh so women don’t have it bad?” It’s a useless fight in my opinion. Literally no one said that women don’t have it bad. EVERYONE HAS IT BAD.
False equivalence. MEN have been making it bad for women for all of history. Men are encouraged to get HUGE so other men will worship them. Women are hated unless they're size 00.
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Henry Cavill had to dehydrate for the bathtub scene in The Witcher. He said on the 3rd day you can smell water from a distance.
But not all men in Hollywood need to look like this and not every storyline is based around their bodies. There are plenty of shows and movies where the "average" man (think Kevin James) gets to be with a very thin, gorgeous, typical Hollywood woman (think Leah Remini). Women do not get that in return. Lastly, these standards for men are made by other men! Show me all the powerful Hollywood women in the driver's seat making these calls.
mmhh for the comment about all being for girls to have wet panties or something, women are not heads of studios, directors or writers of the avengers, so accusing women of this is untrue. IDK, it's too easy. Men are responsible of these looks, I mean, look at Snyder and his filmography too.
I used to date a woman who, in her late 30s, decided to participate in fitness competition just to prove something to herself. Towards the end she had become really nervous and irritated easily. It was end of April and the weather was really warm, but she always wore winter coat and was still shivering. After the competition, i called her to ask how she was doing. She said "I am eating everything that doesn't move. Whatever moves, i kill and then eat!"
I don't remember where I read it and it didn't apply to television specifically, but an article said that the ideal man is a normal man whose physique is exaggerated, but real. An normal woman would require surgery to get Barbie proportions. I believe some models have their lower ribs removed.
They are playing *gods* and *superhuman heroes* so it does make sense that they look much better than the average better-than-average specimen. Maybe they do take it too far and, certainly, it does create unrealistic ideas and expectations.
I think it's hysterical how Hollywood types regularly lecture the rest of us about sexism and obsession with physical beauty, when Hollywood is 10 times more extreme about these things than the rest of the country. I've participated in plenty of hiring decisions in my life, and I have never, ever heard anyone else involved say, "This candidate isn't good-looking enough for the job." Yet that's routine in Hollywood.
Bio/kines degree - have been consistently disturbed by the physiques touted in Hollywood/magazines as "ideal" - both genders. When I see a person this "ripped" all I can see is the skinned "human muscle" anatomy corpse that's been quickly wrapped in some sort of opaque plastic wrap.
One thing that isn't mentioned above (but might be in the comments) is the copious amount of steroids these guys take to get these physiques. I mean when you sign a 100M contract, and your job is to play a God on screen....that means that there's a certain amount of sacrifices you'll be making to your body. But these guys have all the money in the world, the studio to back them and the best doctors. It's not that I'm against 'roids, but there should be disclaimers at the beginning of the movies that state "these are professional actors that are paid to look this way, DO not attempt to recreate this at home as you could endanger your life". Something like that. Ps if you want an example of that check out Kumail Nanjiani
It's HOLLYWOOD. It's not real - it's fairytales about unreal men and women designed in the imaginations of couch-dwelling lizards like Harvey Weinstein. If you buy into that, either mentally or by paying for a cinema ticket, expect to see the most unreal BS.
As a result steroids are EVERYWHERE in hollywood. Probably 95% of all men with more than average muscle uses them.
No offense but it is a lot less pressure than the women go through. And for Men it just a movie, in reality, all-girls actually face it every single day. Independent of any job profile, girls are expected to look best, whereas men just walking with the enormous belly hanging down the shirt and murky t-shirts, coffee in one hand. Using the same clothing multiple times.
Most body builder men say the only ones that pay attention to their bodies are other men. Women really don't give a crap. We're not ingrained w the idea men need to be perfect and put on pedestals. We're taught to nurture men and feed their egos. Men are taught not to give a crap about anything but the way a women makes their penis stand up. Amy Schumer did a sketch called the last f*ckable day it's about when women at a certain age or weight they become invisible and in my experience and many other women's experience after the age of 45 you do become invisible to men. Overweight women are pretty much invisible their whole lives to men. A lot of men are only nice to women they're attracted to. Men need to go to therapy like women do instead of making the women in their lives their therapists/mother.
But these are fictional movies with fictional characters. Isnt that why they have to go for a fictional look? Who's fault is it if someone is expecting to look like a fictional character?
Hollywood is male dominated. Ask all the men who write this stuff.
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I watched an interview with Hugh Jackman, and he spoke on why he CHOSE to get his body in that shape...he felt it was what he wanted to to do to become the part. Nobody required it, except himself. Men impose these standards on themselves. Now before I am bombarded with negativity. Those ridiculous muscles and what MEN think women want are so far removed from reality. Before all those abs and bulging muscles came on screen...women were crushing on the likes of Al Pacino, Cary Grant, Paul Newman, Robert Redford and Johnny Depp... we didn't give a s**t about 6 packs and bulging biceps.
It's funny that this is 1 article about men out of 100 articles for women with body issues, but commenters are like "yeah but women".
1) So Natalie Dormer looks the way she looks from lounging around on the sofa and stuffing her face with pork pies, anx never exercising, watching her diet, exfoliating, maybe nipping and tucking, slathering on make-up, spending hundreds of dollars at the hairdresser's regularly? 2) The actors who sign contracts to play superheroes are completely unaware of the requirements of their jobs vis-a-vis appearance,.and would gladly give up the millions and millions they make, not to have to endure the difficulties of their work?
I had no idea dehydrating yourself half to death for a look was such a big thing.
Funn... this is strictly a professional way of treating your body and it is somehow controversial to a lot of people, but destroying your body with vegan diet is absolutely ok, promoted everywhere - a diet that is based on an individual point of view and solidarity with animals. I am not against anyone. I just say THINK TWICE.
Watch this video with Nile Wilson who is a gymnast and Eddie Hall who was the worlds strongest man https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6EeF_oOBzM
The problem is not only with the movies themselves, but the promotional tours after the fact. While they could make Chris look as he did before the serums, they could have done the after as well, however when he is out and about, or doing press etc, people would be confused. It is like All the Prince and Princesses as Disneyland have to look almost twin like, they measure everything when trying out for those roles, every girl has to be so similar to every other girl playing the same role not just the wigs or the dresses, so that hours later when a shift changes the family that saw Ariel at 11am and comes back at 4pm won't freak out that she is so different looking. No one mentioned Brendan Frasier also going through this with George of the Jungle, he was like clingwrap on bones for that role.
I know this is true, but in a very different way. My son wrestled in his first couple of years of hight school. Because there was another, older kid wrestling at his natural weight, he had to cut weight, which meant that for two winters running this still-growing boy with a healthy appetite had to eat way less than he wanted and go hungry a lot. He was cranky and miserable the entire season. The next year he didn't go out for the team at all. On the other hand, my grandson, who plays football, is HUGE. He's an offensive lineman, 6'3 and somewhere between 260 and 270, muscular as heck. He can lift an amazing amount (owns the deadlift record for his school)....and yeah, like all those guys, he has a little tummy. He's healthy, eats properly, and could probably outlast any of these so-called "ripped" guys.
I think that ultimately it's not about male bodies, female bodies, trans bodies, or non-binary bodies; it's about Hollywood establishing cartoonish, 'ideal' bodies that are impossible to reach for more than a brief time and that tarnish everybody's idea of what they are 'supposed' to look like. Whether it's surgery, starving, dehydration, or anything else, it should be unacceptable. Period.
Someone who struggles with how they look since I was a kid. I was heavy growing up hated how I looked. Exercised and dieted to the point of anorexia, hated how I looked. Gained healthy weight and compete in powerlifting and bodybuilding. I never am happy with how I look. My wife always says I look great and I never see it. Not something I talk about much.
I'm a short, fat, old man. And quite happy with it. Don't care what others think.
The 'coke break' ads from way back. Yes at the time it was all daring and 'let's turn this thing on its head to have women leering at a fit bloke......but one shouldn't just replace the one wrong thing with another wrong thing.
Yeah, bexause ONE ad decades ago equals centuries of men raping, murdering, beating women. I'm sure that guy was just as terrified of a bunch of secretaries oohing over him as a woman walking by construction workers screaming at her. Right? TOTES equal.
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I'm a big guy and I always have a chuckle when people expect me to be just fat and weak but then get surprised when they realize I'm actually strong. Once my cousin, who is shredded, was lifting and I was telling him I can't do chin-ups because of my size but then when he was deadlifting I was like...how much is that? 300? and I just lifted it off the floor. Let's just say, he wouldn't underestimating me by my size anymore. Lol
It's almost as if they've never seen a sumo bout, tremendous strength and lightning fast -- but admittedly the loser never looks graceful (and sometimes the winner neither).
Jason statham... Dwayne johnson... Like every f&f actor EVER
Load More Replies... Reactions like this is exactly why men don't talk about their problems. Good on you for being a toxic f**k.
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Yet the actors willingly participate, because money and fame is more important than health and changing toxic environments.
Yeah, how come this is about millionaire male actors while ordunary women don't get paid for being size 0?
Load More Replies... This is a feeling, not a fact, but it seems to me that while we might expect men to look like this in the movies, most straight women are not expecting their men to look like this in real life, and are not actively searching for men with these unrealistic body types. However, I DO feel that a vast number of straight men expect movie stars and their dates to look exactly the same.
I feel the same. I don"t find that super beefed-up look attractive at all, but I know many men who think women on tv is how we all should look like. But I think porn is contributing to this issue a lot as well. A friend shared that a man she knows said watching porn makes him feel depressed, because porn stars get to have sex with "angels", while men like him have "crocodiles" for partners. Too many men don't care that women generally don't look like that without tons of make-up and plastic surgery.
Load More Replies... The problem with this argument is that men are ALSO given other options by Hollywood that are still held up as sex symbols: the "dad bod" style of Seth Rogan or the old-man style of Clooney or the sensitive man style of Colin Firth, etc. Women are given ONE style to look like: Under 35, excessively thin, long hair.
Add: lanky, nerdy guys like Adam Driver. Plenty of alternative looks held up as male sex symbols. It is nowhere near the same level of toxicity for men.
Load More Replies... I’ve always thought this, but was too scared to talk about it because I know when a lot of people think one thing and I’m the only one in the conversation that thinks the other thing, I’m not going to be able to prove my point.
I frequently feel like that too Queen - and agree with this post.
Load More Replies... Been saying this s**t for years. Men are treated just as bad as women. Sex sells and men aren't the only ones who have sex. What's worse is we're supposed to just "man it up" and not complain about it. We don't have support groups, we don't get government funded help, we don't have safe houses, and we get laughed at when it's talked about. The sheer irony is we get told all the time to express our feelings yet when we do, it's dismissed. Stop allowing toxic masculinity and stop enabling it.
You are right. But just to be fair: women don’t have support groups because the government said „Let’s create some and fund them.“ It was women who thought „We have a problem, we need support groups“ and then fought for funding. Same with safe houses. Nothing men cannot do too, they just have to start it instead of waiting for someone else to do it for them.
Load More Replies... I watched a film from 2003 last night and the male lead took his shirt off. I said to my (male) other half: don't you miss the times when male actors had a perfectly normal physique vs everyone being completely jacked?? ... he even admitted it, and he has been religiously trying to keep ripped for years (not for my sake, I couldnt care less)
I recommend British movies/TV as an antidote. Suddenly everyone looks like normal human beings on the street. So refreshing!
Load More Replies... Hold up, super hero movies are showing a ridiculous idealized body. Yea it's not a good thing to do to actors, but also, women generally don't expect men to look like that.
And those movies aren't "for" women at all. Natalie Dormer's a really good actress but anecdote is not data.
Load More Replies... these are incredibly dangerous expectations for men in television and film that can have long-lasting health implications for actors and stunt doubles.
Male actors don't have to look like this because women think it's sexy. Male actors have to look like this because of male power fantasies. Ever wondered what the main target audience is for Dragon Ball, most superhero movies etc? I don't know any woman who thinks Hugh Jackman's dehydrated raisin body is more attractive than a properly hydrated, healthy, moderately muscled guy's body who doesn't hit the gym 4 hours a day. I think those abusive male beauty expectations are terrible, but please don't blame women for this.
While this post is true. The problem it creates in our society is not as big as it is for unrealistic standards for women. Men still have more power than women and thus can try to impose these unrealistic standards. Also to the people trying to say that men's support groups don't exist because of women need to realize they don't exist because of men. This goes back to the men still have more power part. I think most women would be happy if men got help, but many men still have the "getting help is weak" mantra beaten into them by other men.
Who said those were the "perfect" bodies anyway? Ask the real people: men' s muscles of course are nice (to a lot of us), but when too defined, they look weird and painful. Same thing for women's bodies actually. Too much is...too much (others might disagree though, I don't know). Still, going to the extreme is supposedly for the audience's pleasure. Really?
A "perfect body?" Wouldn't that be the one that doesn't pass gas, shed dandruff, develop arthritis, diverticulitis, cancer, etc. etc.
Honestly I really didn't know about this! Super eye opening. I guess you could say objectification of people (especially in media) is a matter of body image and beauty standards, not sexism.
Aaaaand you'd be wrong, too. This s**t is optional for men but compulsory for women, and we have to stay 26 forever.
Load More Replies... The thing is as women we know these male bodies are not the norm. We like dad bods even more. But men seem to think it's ok to only like thin women for fear of being shamed or bc they believe women should look like actresses or models. We see it all the time. Rich old men w young fit women. Especially men that like to be seen. They will only date women in their 20s or younger and as soon as they hit 30 they're traded in. Regular men like to tell women they're fat old and ugly unprompted all the time. Fat men expect and feel entitled to a women that's thin. Women must have big boobs flat stomachs and bubble butts and also stay in their 20s for the rest of their lives in order to attract a man. Surveys that asked regular men what they're attracted to and it was 18-20 yr old young girls that are thin. Women surveyed said men in their 40s w a belly. The problem is men they're shaming themselves and shaming women. This is why feminism is important men need it too so the shaming stops
Men do this to show off to other men, not women. It's like those big huge trucks with huge stereos. Yeah, dude, all that makes me think is he's compensating. Plus, those toxic male standards are about getting BIGGER, while women are supposed to get as small as possible. Predator, prey, and the prey is helpfully increasing their vulnerability. Plus, remember how, in movies, women over the age of 40 vanish, while men get craggy and are considered attractive. There's at least two male cast members for every female role, and those roles are eye candy. So, no, men aren't as objectified as women, when they're being objectified by equals---not "girls creaming their pants"-----when women are basically being told to make themselves into attractive prey by predators. Oh, plus women aren't allowed to age. Men get rewarded. Women are simply left with no other standard.
I am currently after having a baby the chubbiest I've ever been in my life. So much for breastfeeding makes the kilos go away by magic. Nope, the chocolate binge eating sessions to produce mothers milk and stay awake for months on no sleep counter that. But even before due to huge boobs I could not even do half the moves needed in my flamenco class. At the same time I have mommy muscles more than I've ever had underneath that chubby just from carrying my 9kg baby around on one arm for hours every day. So kilos and circumference is just a moot. I'm quite sure that the body builders would have the same issues of reaching a pose because the huge pecs etc are in the way. My dad always admired Bruce Lee and kept saying that those kind of muscles might be much more strong than the gym bunnies muscle mountains. He himself was in his youth tall and lean and yet could throw 50kg sacks onto a truck (above his head) the whole day long while guys fresh from gym died on that move after 5 minutes.
I served in Iraq and we got to see this s**t in action. Some of the mercs had these huge pecs and biceps and strutted around, always brandishing weapons. The SF guys and the Ukrainian equivalent looked liked....ordinary guys, maybe slightly smaller. They could kill you with a paperclip. They also didn't get "made" instantly as Americans. They could eat normally. It was all about training and brains, and having huge muscles reduced manuverability and effectiveness. When they were sunbathing or something, they were all lean muscle mass. The Blackwater guys spent HOURS in the gym and for what? Those big muscles don't give you any advantage at all, plus they require time and equipment and calories to maintain.
Load More Replies... Speaking of the objectification of men, the Today Show had some Olympic Athletes on and Hods and Kathy Lee asked if they could apply oil to one of the participates. It made me cringe at the time and it still does years later. I remember thinking would that have been ok to do if it had been a male asking a woman if he could oil her up. Yuck. This behavior needs to stop all around.
Yeah, women exist in a world where Trump gets elected after bragging he's a rapist. Hoda and Kathy are not a trend.
Load More Replies... Except this is their job and almost all the roles mentioned are physical ones - captain America, fight club, wolverine etc. These are superheroes or is in the char description . Women are expected to look amazing in every role regardless of its physicality. Also when male actors gain weight or lose their super cut body they still get roles - look at Russell Crowe post Gladiator... or Hugh Jackman post Wolverine. Now I'm sure he hasn't gained much in Greatest Showman etc but even if he did he'd probably still get roles. Chubby Scarlett Johansen not so much.
I can honestly say while I appreciate Captain America & Thor, etc, I'd literally never expect a real life man to look like that. In fact, I think it would honestly not only intimidate me but I prefer softer cheek, baby faced guys. For most people it's the personality that seals the deal (here's looking at you Benedict Cumberbatch as Sherlock- *drools*) What I find repulsive is the double standards in behavior- man stalks ex girlfriend in his car while listening to sappy music = scary & dangerous. Girl does the same thing & it's the hit song "Drivers License" These little role reversals are everywhere and it's really not okay.
Not advocating for this, by any means. No one should have to deal with this. But by comparison, this is a very recent phenomenon. Also, if you think this is entirely or even mostly about the visual appetites of women, you're quite mistaken. This market is building men's insecurities and exploiting them the same as they've done to women for centuries.
Let's be real here...everything about Hollywood is unrealistic regardless of gender.
A guy I worked with told a story about being on the wrestling team. He was 12 lbs “over weight” for his match when he weighed in the morning of the match. Whatever the hell the trainers put him through, he lost the 12 lbs before the match took place. He won the match, but had to be rushed to the hospital afterward. Score one for the team?! 🙌😳
If you are not a body builder but have a strong core, you will probably have a keg instead of a six pack. Look at "The World's Strongest Man" competitors. Big, chunky, keg style abs, muscles that do the job
The male actors mentioned here all played characters who would be physically fit, though. Brad Pitt's character in Fight Club would need muscles. Channing Tatum wasn't playing a science teacher, he was playing a stripper, Chris Evans was playing Captain America. None of the actors mentioned have been required or expected to maintain that level of fitness for every movie they're in.
All these post below of people stating this is not a problem or it not as bad of a problem show exactly why this is a problem. Just because you think its not a big deal doesn't mean it isn't. No one likes to be dismissed when they have an issue. For every person on here dismissing the issue, you are part of the problem. Even if you feel this is not as big of an issues, you should at the very minimum acknowledge it is an issue and be understanding of it. So much hate just because men want to point out we get abused and assaulted too. We are not all macho men, we are not all assholes, we are in this alone with most men not even telling their SO of past problems. https://clintonwhitehouse3.archives.gov/women/gresources.html
EVERY PRESIDENT of the US has been male....but you want to whine you have nowhere to turn. Women could not even VOTE till 1919......but YOU have nowhere to turn, you say.
Load More Replies... And Victoria secret models do not eat for three days before a runway. What men and women go through to make money is crazy.
I was a paratrooper in my youth. Showed up at Jump school, all 155lbs of me. Saw several muscle bound guys and figured I did not have a chance. They were all gone by the end of the first day. No stamina, no endurance. Ten mile run? not a chance, or if they did make it that was it for the day. . Almost all of the graduates at wing parade were wiry little guys like me.
Apparently the men who run hollywood have no idea what women really want. There are a variety of facial looks that women are generally into, and frankly, there is a group of women that will find just about any face attractive. The majority of women don't really care about a 'hot bod' unless it is attached to a wonderful human being. All the women I know either prefer a wiry man, or a man with a bit of meat on him for cuddling. Honestly, if he can open a jar or help her up off the couch when she's pregnant or after surgery or something, that's plenty. Magic mike was only hot because they could dance. Do guys get how hot that is? You don't even have to be terribly attractive or even what is traditionally considered 'in shape'. A man that can dance? That's a good time in and out of the sheets.
Look at old photos of lumberjacks, people who did grueling work most musclemen today wouldn't last five minutes at. And btw, the Chinese ideal for a martial artist is "tiger back bear waist." You don't get fighting power with six pack abs, especially if you're using a spear or sword.
Society puts pressure on everyone to look and be a certain way. A lot of that was to do with cultural standards of beauty. To a degree its understandable, such as expecting people to follow good hygiene. But a lot of times it's unhealthy to hold people to such standards
"Society" isn't telling women they have to be a size 0 and stay 20 forever. "Society" isn't making male power fantasies for other men but blaming women.
Load More Replies... it makes me super upset when people assume dudes don't get self-conscious or anything like that. people are always putting up this facade that they support women's rights and feminism but real feminism requires attention to women's rights and the destigimentation of men and mental health.
Well this is eye opening, now I can educate my son of the unrealistic male bodies on the screen.
Or you could teach him to live a healthy life and attain whatever level of physical and mental success he's looking for. But hey, you do you.
Load More Replies... I 100% agree with this entire post. Everyone has these super unrealistic body standards, it’s crazy! And when someone says “oh boy men in Hollywood really have it bad” someone else goes “oh so women don’t have it bad?” It’s a useless fight in my opinion. Literally no one said that women don’t have it bad. EVERYONE HAS IT BAD.
False equivalence. MEN have been making it bad for women for all of history. Men are encouraged to get HUGE so other men will worship them. Women are hated unless they're size 00.
Load More Replies... Henry Cavill had to dehydrate for the bathtub scene in The Witcher. He said on the 3rd day you can smell water from a distance.
But not all men in Hollywood need to look like this and not every storyline is based around their bodies. There are plenty of shows and movies where the "average" man (think Kevin James) gets to be with a very thin, gorgeous, typical Hollywood woman (think Leah Remini). Women do not get that in return. Lastly, these standards for men are made by other men! Show me all the powerful Hollywood women in the driver's seat making these calls.
mmhh for the comment about all being for girls to have wet panties or something, women are not heads of studios, directors or writers of the avengers, so accusing women of this is untrue. IDK, it's too easy. Men are responsible of these looks, I mean, look at Snyder and his filmography too.
I used to date a woman who, in her late 30s, decided to participate in fitness competition just to prove something to herself. Towards the end she had become really nervous and irritated easily. It was end of April and the weather was really warm, but she always wore winter coat and was still shivering. After the competition, i called her to ask how she was doing. She said "I am eating everything that doesn't move. Whatever moves, i kill and then eat!"
I don't remember where I read it and it didn't apply to television specifically, but an article said that the ideal man is a normal man whose physique is exaggerated, but real. An normal woman would require surgery to get Barbie proportions. I believe some models have their lower ribs removed.
They are playing *gods* and *superhuman heroes* so it does make sense that they look much better than the average better-than-average specimen. Maybe they do take it too far and, certainly, it does create unrealistic ideas and expectations.
I think it's hysterical how Hollywood types regularly lecture the rest of us about sexism and obsession with physical beauty, when Hollywood is 10 times more extreme about these things than the rest of the country. I've participated in plenty of hiring decisions in my life, and I have never, ever heard anyone else involved say, "This candidate isn't good-looking enough for the job." Yet that's routine in Hollywood.
Bio/kines degree - have been consistently disturbed by the physiques touted in Hollywood/magazines as "ideal" - both genders. When I see a person this "ripped" all I can see is the skinned "human muscle" anatomy corpse that's been quickly wrapped in some sort of opaque plastic wrap.
One thing that isn't mentioned above (but might be in the comments) is the copious amount of steroids these guys take to get these physiques. I mean when you sign a 100M contract, and your job is to play a God on screen....that means that there's a certain amount of sacrifices you'll be making to your body. But these guys have all the money in the world, the studio to back them and the best doctors. It's not that I'm against 'roids, but there should be disclaimers at the beginning of the movies that state "these are professional actors that are paid to look this way, DO not attempt to recreate this at home as you could endanger your life". Something like that. Ps if you want an example of that check out Kumail Nanjiani
It's HOLLYWOOD. It's not real - it's fairytales about unreal men and women designed in the imaginations of couch-dwelling lizards like Harvey Weinstein. If you buy into that, either mentally or by paying for a cinema ticket, expect to see the most unreal BS.
As a result steroids are EVERYWHERE in hollywood. Probably 95% of all men with more than average muscle uses them.
No offense but it is a lot less pressure than the women go through. And for Men it just a movie, in reality, all-girls actually face it every single day. Independent of any job profile, girls are expected to look best, whereas men just walking with the enormous belly hanging down the shirt and murky t-shirts, coffee in one hand. Using the same clothing multiple times.
Most body builder men say the only ones that pay attention to their bodies are other men. Women really don't give a crap. We're not ingrained w the idea men need to be perfect and put on pedestals. We're taught to nurture men and feed their egos. Men are taught not to give a crap about anything but the way a women makes their penis stand up. Amy Schumer did a sketch called the last f*ckable day it's about when women at a certain age or weight they become invisible and in my experience and many other women's experience after the age of 45 you do become invisible to men. Overweight women are pretty much invisible their whole lives to men. A lot of men are only nice to women they're attracted to. Men need to go to therapy like women do instead of making the women in their lives their therapists/mother.
But these are fictional movies with fictional characters. Isnt that why they have to go for a fictional look? Who's fault is it if someone is expecting to look like a fictional character?
Hollywood is male dominated. Ask all the men who write this stuff.
Load More Replies... I watched an interview with Hugh Jackman, and he spoke on why he CHOSE to get his body in that shape...he felt it was what he wanted to to do to become the part. Nobody required it, except himself. Men impose these standards on themselves. Now before I am bombarded with negativity. Those ridiculous muscles and what MEN think women want are so far removed from reality. Before all those abs and bulging muscles came on screen...women were crushing on the likes of Al Pacino, Cary Grant, Paul Newman, Robert Redford and Johnny Depp... we didn't give a s**t about 6 packs and bulging biceps.
It's funny that this is 1 article about men out of 100 articles for women with body issues, but commenters are like "yeah but women".
1) So Natalie Dormer looks the way she looks from lounging around on the sofa and stuffing her face with pork pies, anx never exercising, watching her diet, exfoliating, maybe nipping and tucking, slathering on make-up, spending hundreds of dollars at the hairdresser's regularly? 2) The actors who sign contracts to play superheroes are completely unaware of the requirements of their jobs vis-a-vis appearance,.and would gladly give up the millions and millions they make, not to have to endure the difficulties of their work?
I had no idea dehydrating yourself half to death for a look was such a big thing.
Funn... this is strictly a professional way of treating your body and it is somehow controversial to a lot of people, but destroying your body with vegan diet is absolutely ok, promoted everywhere - a diet that is based on an individual point of view and solidarity with animals. I am not against anyone. I just say THINK TWICE.
Watch this video with Nile Wilson who is a gymnast and Eddie Hall who was the worlds strongest man https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6EeF_oOBzM
The problem is not only with the movies themselves, but the promotional tours after the fact. While they could make Chris look as he did before the serums, they could have done the after as well, however when he is out and about, or doing press etc, people would be confused. It is like All the Prince and Princesses as Disneyland have to look almost twin like, they measure everything when trying out for those roles, every girl has to be so similar to every other girl playing the same role not just the wigs or the dresses, so that hours later when a shift changes the family that saw Ariel at 11am and comes back at 4pm won't freak out that she is so different looking. No one mentioned Brendan Frasier also going through this with George of the Jungle, he was like clingwrap on bones for that role.
I know this is true, but in a very different way. My son wrestled in his first couple of years of hight school. Because there was another, older kid wrestling at his natural weight, he had to cut weight, which meant that for two winters running this still-growing boy with a healthy appetite had to eat way less than he wanted and go hungry a lot. He was cranky and miserable the entire season. The next year he didn't go out for the team at all. On the other hand, my grandson, who plays football, is HUGE. He's an offensive lineman, 6'3 and somewhere between 260 and 270, muscular as heck. He can lift an amazing amount (owns the deadlift record for his school)....and yeah, like all those guys, he has a little tummy. He's healthy, eats properly, and could probably outlast any of these so-called "ripped" guys.
I think that ultimately it's not about male bodies, female bodies, trans bodies, or non-binary bodies; it's about Hollywood establishing cartoonish, 'ideal' bodies that are impossible to reach for more than a brief time and that tarnish everybody's idea of what they are 'supposed' to look like. Whether it's surgery, starving, dehydration, or anything else, it should be unacceptable. Period.
Someone who struggles with how they look since I was a kid. I was heavy growing up hated how I looked. Exercised and dieted to the point of anorexia, hated how I looked. Gained healthy weight and compete in powerlifting and bodybuilding. I never am happy with how I look. My wife always says I look great and I never see it. Not something I talk about much.
I'm a short, fat, old man. And quite happy with it. Don't care what others think.
The 'coke break' ads from way back. Yes at the time it was all daring and 'let's turn this thing on its head to have women leering at a fit bloke......but one shouldn't just replace the one wrong thing with another wrong thing.
Yeah, bexause ONE ad decades ago equals centuries of men raping, murdering, beating women. I'm sure that guy was just as terrified of a bunch of secretaries oohing over him as a woman walking by construction workers screaming at her. Right? TOTES equal.
Load More Replies... I'm a big guy and I always have a chuckle when people expect me to be just fat and weak but then get surprised when they realize I'm actually strong. Once my cousin, who is shredded, was lifting and I was telling him I can't do chin-ups because of my size but then when he was deadlifting I was like...how much is that? 300? and I just lifted it off the floor. Let's just say, he wouldn't underestimating me by my size anymore. Lol
It's almost as if they've never seen a sumo bout, tremendous strength and lightning fast -- but admittedly the loser never looks graceful (and sometimes the winner neither).
Jason statham... Dwayne johnson... Like every f&f actor EVER
Load More Replies... Reactions like this is exactly why men don't talk about their problems. Good on you for being a toxic f**k.
Load More Replies... Yet the actors willingly participate, because money and fame is more important than health and changing toxic environments.
Yeah, how come this is about millionaire male actors while ordunary women don't get paid for being size 0?
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