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Man Refuses Vasectomy, Bans Abortion, Acts Shocked When Ex-Wife Initiates Custody On Her Terms
Unwanted pregnancies, unfortunately, happen, and some people choose not to go through with the birth. However, those who do typically end up in a messy situation.
This couple is no different. The woman has been vocal about her reluctance to be a mother, while her ex-husband also refuses to be involved full-time. She one day showed up at his workplace to drop off her son and demand 50/50 custody, further complicating their problem.
After getting berated by her husband’s family, she now wonders if she was wrong for what she did.
RELATED:
Many unwanted pregnancies don’t end well for everyone involved
Image credits: Kristina Paukshtite / Pexels (not the actual photo)
This woman ended up divorcing her husband, the person who pushed her to continue raising the child despite her reluctance
Image credits: freepik / Freepik (not the actual photo)
She demanded 50/50 custody from her now-former spouse
Image credits: semenay erdoğan / Unsplash (not the actual photo)
To push her case, she made an unannounced visit to the man’s workplace and dropped off their infant son
Image credits: Vegetable_Ring_2588
Image credits: Getty Images / Unsplash (not the actual photo)
An unintended pregnancy may take a toll on the woman’s mental health
The woman’s actions and persistence to have her husband involved may indicate that she is under a lot of stress. Research has shown that this is a common occurrence among women going through unintended pregnancies.
According to a study published in BMC Pregnancy and Childbirth, unwanted pregnancies increase the risk of maternal depression and parental stress by 22%. Marital conflict was also a high likelihood, and as seen in the story, the couple’s relationship ended in divorce.
Another study by the University of the Basque Country in Spain concluded that unexpected pregnancies can disrupt the woman’s way of life.
“Our interpretation is that unexpected pregnancies can be more destabilising for younger women because their emotional and employment situation tends to be more precarious,” the study’s author Anna Barbuscia explains.
The emotions that women go through as they deal with unwanted pregnancies can be overwhelming. This is why one of the first steps most experts advise is to acknowledge the shock.
According to PsychCentral, it is a normal emotion to feel, especially after going through sudden traumatic life changes. Therefore, giving yourself time to process and take it all in may be necessary.
However, the bigger problem for the woman appears to be her ex-husband, who seems more concerned with controlling the situation than providing help. He left her with no workable options, including adoption.
In her case, professional help may be the next best option. As a primary care physician, Dr. David Moss points out that lawyers are best qualified to help a person navigate legal battles, especially in the author’s case, where the husband has made the situation more complicated.
“Legal counsel is a valuable resource for determining whether the patient has an obligation to inform the father or if any legal action may be needed to protect the patient’s wishes,” Dr. Moss wrote in an article for American Family Physician.
The author is on the right track in contacting a lawyer. However, it may be best for her to try to get full custody of the child and not let the father be involved.
The woman provided more information in the comments
Many took her side, faulting the ex-husband for “forcing” her to have the child
A few people criticized her
And there were those who pinned the blame on the couple
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What do you think ?
Nitka Tsar 9 months ago
THIS is why woman need the right to abort!!! Exactly this! HE did not want an abortion! HE did not want to give it up for adoption! So, why does SHE have to live with it now, while he just lives his happy life as if nothing happened!? Good for her! She did exactly the right thing snd I think she should just leave the baby with him 100%, if she still does not really want it. Let him figure out what to do with HIS effing choices! Darn it
Nils Skirnir 9 months ago
Folks that are beating up on OP perhaps aren’t from the US and don’t understand how draconian Texas is about abortion and abandonment. He state has prosecuted abortion providers out of state, prosecuted people for going out of state to get one, demanded records of women who they thought might be pregnant, prosecuted women for miscarriages, have rewards for turning in people who have abortions, allow lawsuits by anyone against an abortion seeker, prosecuted women for dropping an infant at hospitals, etc, etc. OP was right to be afraid.
and_a_touch_of_the_’tism 9 months ago
OP stated that her ex threatened to report her if she sought abortion out of state, as well. I really think, for the sake of both OP and the child, she should contact a lawyer and figure out how to give the baby up for adoption.
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Bonesko 9 months ago (edited)
ESH, but mostly the lawmakers that allow this sort of sh*t to happen.
SkyBlueandBlack 9 months ago
Esh? She didn't have a choice. That's what living in Texas means.
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Sue User 9 months ago
To all those saying she could haave gotten an abortion. Did you not read the oart where she said he was going to turn her in ? In Texas, it is a criminal offense to go out of state to get an abortion. It is also a criminal offense to help someone get an abortion. She cannot give the child up fir adoption if the fatger says no. However, she still must raise the baby even if she wants adoption and he doesnt. Finalky, did you see the part where in order to get a faster divorce, she had to assume sole custody? No wonder lawyer hasnt called her back. Any law case will be a kosing battle as they paint the mother as a vile cresture for wabting to " abandon" the child so soon, and how it would be so hard for the man, but since she works from home, she is just being lazy and trying to get out if her duty ? This is the environment in areas of USA right now.
tameson 9 months ago
tameson 1 minute ago Texas has NOT passed a law making it illegal to travel out of state for an abortion. Even if they did, it would be found unconstitutional. Four Texas counties have laws allowing private citizens to sue someone who helps anyone travel out of state for an abortion but those laws are viewed as unconstitutional, even in Texas.
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Janelle Collard 9 months ago
The YTAs are ignoring the fact OP had HG, same thing Princess Kate had with all 3 of her kids + was hospitalized for. So driving or flying to a different state for a termination was never doable for OP. I do not blame OP in the least for dropping off the baby at the AH-ex's work since he never made arrangements to see or care for the baby.
SkyBlueandBlack 9 months ago
And if she had driven or flown to another state for an abortion, she'd now be in prison.
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Tamra 9 months ago
I'm fairly shocked by the YTA and ESH votes here. This woman sounds like she explored all options, but was met with resistance and threats from the useless man who not only got her pregnant, but refuses to step up and actually try to be a decent parent. I feel she should have done more research about the legality of abortion out of the state of Texas, because she could have legally done that. However, as she said, she was struggling with hyperemesis during the pregnancy, and couldn't drive. It's just curious to me that everyone is dog-piling judgment on this woman who seemed to try everything within her power, and are conveniently ignoring the abjectly useless man who's apparently all but abandoned the child he fathered.
and_a_touch_of_the_’tism 9 months ago
Texas will prosecute you for doing that. Also, she said that her ex stated that he would report her for doing so.
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Earonn - 9 months ago
OP is a good mother who faces her feelings with honesty. Ex is one of the s****y forced breeders who are happy to force women to have babies but don't want any of the work that comes with bringing up a Human. They should be forced to adopt the babies they force to be born, but we can't that to the poor children. Hope OP finds a way out. I find it horrible that she should neither be able to give the child to the father or up for adoption. Reproductive slavery. Texas is such a s**t place.
Dragons Exist 9 months ago
Seems like all the YTAs are just blaming both of them and saying that they should just get over it because it "is UNFAIR to that sweet innocent boy" and "that baby deserves so much better", because they completely missed the point of the story
Rachel Pelz 9 months ago
It's been said before, but so many people like to ignore this: she could NOT give the baby up for adoption without HIS consent which he REFUSED to give.
Sparkle 9 months ago
I think in this whole situation the government is the a*s. That poor kid will know it's not loved. As for needing the ex husbands okay for adoption in my opinion once you're divorced since the courts the majority of the time give custody to the mother she shouldn't have to need his permission.
Sue 9 months ago
The government here is the people of Texas who voted for this. Unfortunately, many people who didn't vote against these people are being punished along with the forced-birthers. I hope to see a giant exodus of women from Texas. Maybe we can start an organization that helps women get out of Texas, or other women-enslaving states.
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BoredPangolin 9 months ago
Despite how awful how it is for the baby, I'm glad a case like this happens and how it blows up on a man's lap. I HOPE women in her situation will take their case to lawyer and FORCE fathers to take care of the kid THEY produced. Not just money: actually parent. Abortion rights will be back within a year. 🤣
Phil Green 9 months ago
He was the one that insisted on a baby. This medieval attitude in some men disgusts me. I didn't want children, but my ex-wife (now) fell pregnant. I assume he's my son and I have treated him as mine, he has grown to be someone I am proud of, with a family of his own. I had a vasectomy as soon as I could, after the birth. Parenting is a shared responsibility. Equal for both man and woman. The husband is an idiot and the OP should have had full responsibility for her own body.
Sue 9 months ago
The anti-abortion people don't care about babies. They care about controlling women.
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tori Ohno 9 months ago
If I couldn't drive myself out of state for an abortion, I would've been on a bus. It's only going to get you arrested in Texas if you abort in Texas. In a state where it's legal, Texas can't do anything to you. Now she's trapped. Get a lawyer and force the 50/50 split, or force an adoption. If he doesn't want to care for the child, he'll sign. If he refuses, she can relinquish custody and force 100% on him while paying him child support. He'll sign or agree to custody
Janissary35680 9 months ago
Q: How do you feel about the woman dropping the baby off unannounced at her ex-husband's workplace? A: It depends on the height the baby was dropped from.
Anna Drever 9 months ago
The lawyer hasn’t gotten back to her??? Chase them up or get a better lawyer who WILL take your calls. Ffs.
KatSaidThat 1 month ago
Did those YTA folk read the part abut it being illegal and him threatening her with going to jail? He forced her into this situation, now he can suffer the consequences. I feel for this child. I feel for her too as this is a terrible situation of his making.
J R 7 months ago
The YTAs are insane. The woman lives in Texas, and the husband absolutely would have taken her to court if she'd crossed state lines for an abortion. Maybe the case would have gotten tossed out, or maybe not, but she would have been put through hell having to hire legal counsel and dealing with all the forced birthers who would harass her. This is one of the many reasons abortion needs to be legal and easily accessible.
weatherwitch 9 months ago
That poor poor woman. And the Despicable misogyny of Texas. Her husband is A PATHETIC piece of manhood and should not be the father either. She should go to the courts, report how she was blocked and how he's thinking of being an occasional weekend dad, you know when he's ready in Never years time. Have the little one adopted. She didn't want to be a mother and he wanted to be a Man (father) in verility terms not as a parent. I Hate those people going after her. She's been Forced in her own Country (America the free 🤮) into parenthood, was too poorly to both get away and too Terrified of Prison to get one. As well as this lady there's poor Adriana brain dead, forced by government to be kept alive because the fetus was nine weeks old at her death. Her Family are forced to pay medical bills for a mother who is brain dead and a baby that won't make it. As I understand it now the deceased mother has a baby of 21 weeks gestation. Her five years old son thinks mummy is coming back 😢
Tonyah Mcanelly 9 months ago
OF all people involved I feel bad for the baby with parents like this I cant imagine what this childs life is going to be like. Regardless of the circusmstance these people need to figure it out fast and get it together there is an innocent child . involved. If neither of you want this child and it seems like you do. Give it up for adoption hopefully it will go to a loving family who cant have children that want children and give this kid a fair shot in life .
FreeTheUnicorn 9 months ago
Just to clarify Texan law: as May 2025: you can surrender a child to a safe baby place if the infant is 60 days or younger, with no legal repercussions. Texas law does not prevent or prosecute people from travelling out of state for an abortion. If OP had spoken to a doctor about this, contacted an advocacy group, Googled, she would have known this. this is rage bait and it's working. If anyone has an unwanted pregnancy in Texas, there are still options.
Sera 9 months ago
She doesn’t want to give the baby up. You keep talking about the safe haven laws like that is what she should be doing instead of addressing the fact that a man who coerced her into giving birth is refusing to take responsibility for the child he created.
Load More Replies... Tyranamar 9 months ago
I love her comments that she’s called one lawyer but he hasn’t called her back. Umm…what about calling more lawyers? Get one that will call you back. She’s being just as lame about doing what needs done now as she was about getting the abortion in the first place. Sometimes, you have to put in some effort if you don’t want your life to be a c**p show.
My O My 9 months ago
So, how often were you a single mother, barely out of childbed, having rocked through a speed divorce, working fulltime WHILST "putting in some effort"?????
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Sera 9 months ago
It literally says two months my dude. That is approximately 60 days. Just because “most” cases take longer doesn’t mean they can’t be that short.
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Royal Stray 9 months ago
As a fellow European I understand that it can be difficult to understand but OP had a condition during her pregnancy that most women are hospitalized for, there's no way she could have gotten herself anywhere, and her now ex husband threatened to report her to Texas law enforcement if she did have an abortion, meaning that if she left and ever returned she would be arrested and jailed. The US is just so much more f*cked up than what you'd expect right now
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Rachel Pelz 9 months ago
That is the only thing I'd critise OP for: agreeing to 100% custody during divorce so divorce would happen faster. She knew she wouldn't be on maternity leave forever and she knew the baby would need attention while she'd be working.
Load More Replies... Sue 9 months ago
So she can sit in jail while the case makes it way to the Supreme Court in about 10 years, if she's lucky.
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Tamra 9 months ago
Did you read the part where she tried to do that, but couldn't because the "father" wouldn't give his permission?
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Sue 9 months ago
Says the misanthrope. You sound like what you describe. Another POS.
Load More Replies... Earonn - 9 months ago
Why is the mother TA for not loving a child she was forced to bear? You get up, get out and then love the first stranger on the street. Come on, show us that it's easy. F**k, you twats and your motherhood lies that are only meant to force women into motherhood. Shame on you.
Load More Replies... Nitka Tsar 9 months ago
Bullcrap. He threatened to tell on her if she got sn abortion. And it seams that she could not have put it up for adoption without his consent. Her financial situation has nothing to do with his decisions
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BlackestDawn 9 months ago
If my info is correct the way the law is written in Texas it's still illegal to do it in another state, and since the BF knew it he could have easily reported it later on. So her options were effectively to keep the child or fully move to another state, the latter is a pretty big ask. I'm not sure she could've gotten that much better an outcome. It is an utterly s****y situation created by people who doesn't care about the actual outcomes as long as it looks like they get their way.
Load More Replies... Nitka Tsar 9 months ago
THIS is why woman need the right to abort!!! Exactly this! HE did not want an abortion! HE did not want to give it up for adoption! So, why does SHE have to live with it now, while he just lives his happy life as if nothing happened!? Good for her! She did exactly the right thing snd I think she should just leave the baby with him 100%, if she still does not really want it. Let him figure out what to do with HIS effing choices! Darn it
Nils Skirnir 9 months ago
Folks that are beating up on OP perhaps aren’t from the US and don’t understand how draconian Texas is about abortion and abandonment. He state has prosecuted abortion providers out of state, prosecuted people for going out of state to get one, demanded records of women who they thought might be pregnant, prosecuted women for miscarriages, have rewards for turning in people who have abortions, allow lawsuits by anyone against an abortion seeker, prosecuted women for dropping an infant at hospitals, etc, etc. OP was right to be afraid.
and_a_touch_of_the_’tism 9 months ago
OP stated that her ex threatened to report her if she sought abortion out of state, as well. I really think, for the sake of both OP and the child, she should contact a lawyer and figure out how to give the baby up for adoption.
Load More Replies... Bonesko 9 months ago (edited)
ESH, but mostly the lawmakers that allow this sort of sh*t to happen.
SkyBlueandBlack 9 months ago
Esh? She didn't have a choice. That's what living in Texas means.
Load More Replies... Sue User 9 months ago
To all those saying she could haave gotten an abortion. Did you not read the oart where she said he was going to turn her in ? In Texas, it is a criminal offense to go out of state to get an abortion. It is also a criminal offense to help someone get an abortion. She cannot give the child up fir adoption if the fatger says no. However, she still must raise the baby even if she wants adoption and he doesnt. Finalky, did you see the part where in order to get a faster divorce, she had to assume sole custody? No wonder lawyer hasnt called her back. Any law case will be a kosing battle as they paint the mother as a vile cresture for wabting to " abandon" the child so soon, and how it would be so hard for the man, but since she works from home, she is just being lazy and trying to get out if her duty ? This is the environment in areas of USA right now.
tameson 9 months ago
tameson 1 minute ago Texas has NOT passed a law making it illegal to travel out of state for an abortion. Even if they did, it would be found unconstitutional. Four Texas counties have laws allowing private citizens to sue someone who helps anyone travel out of state for an abortion but those laws are viewed as unconstitutional, even in Texas.
Load More Replies... Janelle Collard 9 months ago
The YTAs are ignoring the fact OP had HG, same thing Princess Kate had with all 3 of her kids + was hospitalized for. So driving or flying to a different state for a termination was never doable for OP. I do not blame OP in the least for dropping off the baby at the AH-ex's work since he never made arrangements to see or care for the baby.
SkyBlueandBlack 9 months ago
And if she had driven or flown to another state for an abortion, she'd now be in prison.
Load More Replies... Tamra 9 months ago
I'm fairly shocked by the YTA and ESH votes here. This woman sounds like she explored all options, but was met with resistance and threats from the useless man who not only got her pregnant, but refuses to step up and actually try to be a decent parent. I feel she should have done more research about the legality of abortion out of the state of Texas, because she could have legally done that. However, as she said, she was struggling with hyperemesis during the pregnancy, and couldn't drive. It's just curious to me that everyone is dog-piling judgment on this woman who seemed to try everything within her power, and are conveniently ignoring the abjectly useless man who's apparently all but abandoned the child he fathered.
and_a_touch_of_the_’tism 9 months ago
Texas will prosecute you for doing that. Also, she said that her ex stated that he would report her for doing so.
Load More Replies... Earonn - 9 months ago
OP is a good mother who faces her feelings with honesty. Ex is one of the s****y forced breeders who are happy to force women to have babies but don't want any of the work that comes with bringing up a Human. They should be forced to adopt the babies they force to be born, but we can't that to the poor children. Hope OP finds a way out. I find it horrible that she should neither be able to give the child to the father or up for adoption. Reproductive slavery. Texas is such a s**t place.
Dragons Exist 9 months ago
Seems like all the YTAs are just blaming both of them and saying that they should just get over it because it "is UNFAIR to that sweet innocent boy" and "that baby deserves so much better", because they completely missed the point of the story
Rachel Pelz 9 months ago
It's been said before, but so many people like to ignore this: she could NOT give the baby up for adoption without HIS consent which he REFUSED to give.
Sparkle 9 months ago
I think in this whole situation the government is the a*s. That poor kid will know it's not loved. As for needing the ex husbands okay for adoption in my opinion once you're divorced since the courts the majority of the time give custody to the mother she shouldn't have to need his permission.
Sue 9 months ago
The government here is the people of Texas who voted for this. Unfortunately, many people who didn't vote against these people are being punished along with the forced-birthers. I hope to see a giant exodus of women from Texas. Maybe we can start an organization that helps women get out of Texas, or other women-enslaving states.
Load More Replies... BoredPangolin 9 months ago
Despite how awful how it is for the baby, I'm glad a case like this happens and how it blows up on a man's lap. I HOPE women in her situation will take their case to lawyer and FORCE fathers to take care of the kid THEY produced. Not just money: actually parent. Abortion rights will be back within a year. 🤣
Phil Green 9 months ago
He was the one that insisted on a baby. This medieval attitude in some men disgusts me. I didn't want children, but my ex-wife (now) fell pregnant. I assume he's my son and I have treated him as mine, he has grown to be someone I am proud of, with a family of his own. I had a vasectomy as soon as I could, after the birth. Parenting is a shared responsibility. Equal for both man and woman. The husband is an idiot and the OP should have had full responsibility for her own body.
Sue 9 months ago
The anti-abortion people don't care about babies. They care about controlling women.
Load More Replies... tori Ohno 9 months ago
If I couldn't drive myself out of state for an abortion, I would've been on a bus. It's only going to get you arrested in Texas if you abort in Texas. In a state where it's legal, Texas can't do anything to you. Now she's trapped. Get a lawyer and force the 50/50 split, or force an adoption. If he doesn't want to care for the child, he'll sign. If he refuses, she can relinquish custody and force 100% on him while paying him child support. He'll sign or agree to custody
Janissary35680 9 months ago
Q: How do you feel about the woman dropping the baby off unannounced at her ex-husband's workplace? A: It depends on the height the baby was dropped from.
Anna Drever 9 months ago
The lawyer hasn’t gotten back to her??? Chase them up or get a better lawyer who WILL take your calls. Ffs.
KatSaidThat 1 month ago
Did those YTA folk read the part abut it being illegal and him threatening her with going to jail? He forced her into this situation, now he can suffer the consequences. I feel for this child. I feel for her too as this is a terrible situation of his making.
J R 7 months ago
The YTAs are insane. The woman lives in Texas, and the husband absolutely would have taken her to court if she'd crossed state lines for an abortion. Maybe the case would have gotten tossed out, or maybe not, but she would have been put through hell having to hire legal counsel and dealing with all the forced birthers who would harass her. This is one of the many reasons abortion needs to be legal and easily accessible.
weatherwitch 9 months ago
That poor poor woman. And the Despicable misogyny of Texas. Her husband is A PATHETIC piece of manhood and should not be the father either. She should go to the courts, report how she was blocked and how he's thinking of being an occasional weekend dad, you know when he's ready in Never years time. Have the little one adopted. She didn't want to be a mother and he wanted to be a Man (father) in verility terms not as a parent. I Hate those people going after her. She's been Forced in her own Country (America the free 🤮) into parenthood, was too poorly to both get away and too Terrified of Prison to get one. As well as this lady there's poor Adriana brain dead, forced by government to be kept alive because the fetus was nine weeks old at her death. Her Family are forced to pay medical bills for a mother who is brain dead and a baby that won't make it. As I understand it now the deceased mother has a baby of 21 weeks gestation. Her five years old son thinks mummy is coming back 😢
Tonyah Mcanelly 9 months ago
OF all people involved I feel bad for the baby with parents like this I cant imagine what this childs life is going to be like. Regardless of the circusmstance these people need to figure it out fast and get it together there is an innocent child . involved. If neither of you want this child and it seems like you do. Give it up for adoption hopefully it will go to a loving family who cant have children that want children and give this kid a fair shot in life .
FreeTheUnicorn 9 months ago
Just to clarify Texan law: as May 2025: you can surrender a child to a safe baby place if the infant is 60 days or younger, with no legal repercussions. Texas law does not prevent or prosecute people from travelling out of state for an abortion. If OP had spoken to a doctor about this, contacted an advocacy group, Googled, she would have known this. this is rage bait and it's working. If anyone has an unwanted pregnancy in Texas, there are still options.
Sera 9 months ago
She doesn’t want to give the baby up. You keep talking about the safe haven laws like that is what she should be doing instead of addressing the fact that a man who coerced her into giving birth is refusing to take responsibility for the child he created.
Load More Replies... Tyranamar 9 months ago
I love her comments that she’s called one lawyer but he hasn’t called her back. Umm…what about calling more lawyers? Get one that will call you back. She’s being just as lame about doing what needs done now as she was about getting the abortion in the first place. Sometimes, you have to put in some effort if you don’t want your life to be a c**p show.
My O My 9 months ago
So, how often were you a single mother, barely out of childbed, having rocked through a speed divorce, working fulltime WHILST "putting in some effort"?????
Load More Replies... Sera 9 months ago
It literally says two months my dude. That is approximately 60 days. Just because “most” cases take longer doesn’t mean they can’t be that short.
Load More Replies... Royal Stray 9 months ago
As a fellow European I understand that it can be difficult to understand but OP had a condition during her pregnancy that most women are hospitalized for, there's no way she could have gotten herself anywhere, and her now ex husband threatened to report her to Texas law enforcement if she did have an abortion, meaning that if she left and ever returned she would be arrested and jailed. The US is just so much more f*cked up than what you'd expect right now
Load More Replies... Rachel Pelz 9 months ago
That is the only thing I'd critise OP for: agreeing to 100% custody during divorce so divorce would happen faster. She knew she wouldn't be on maternity leave forever and she knew the baby would need attention while she'd be working.
Load More Replies... Sue 9 months ago
So she can sit in jail while the case makes it way to the Supreme Court in about 10 years, if she's lucky.
Load More Replies... Tamra 9 months ago
Did you read the part where she tried to do that, but couldn't because the "father" wouldn't give his permission?
Load More Replies... Sue 9 months ago
Says the misanthrope. You sound like what you describe. Another POS.
Load More Replies... Earonn - 9 months ago
Why is the mother TA for not loving a child she was forced to bear? You get up, get out and then love the first stranger on the street. Come on, show us that it's easy. F**k, you twats and your motherhood lies that are only meant to force women into motherhood. Shame on you.
Load More Replies... Nitka Tsar 9 months ago
Bullcrap. He threatened to tell on her if she got sn abortion. And it seams that she could not have put it up for adoption without his consent. Her financial situation has nothing to do with his decisions
Load More Replies... BlackestDawn 9 months ago
If my info is correct the way the law is written in Texas it's still illegal to do it in another state, and since the BF knew it he could have easily reported it later on. So her options were effectively to keep the child or fully move to another state, the latter is a pretty big ask. I'm not sure she could've gotten that much better an outcome. It is an utterly s****y situation created by people who doesn't care about the actual outcomes as long as it looks like they get their way.
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