Woman Doesn’t Wear A Bra At Work Despite Her Coworkers Complaining, Asks If She’s Being A Jerk
A new job brings a lot of uncertainty. After all, we encounter new people, a new environment and a new set of responsibilities. There’s a lot to do to set yourself up for success. But before Reddit user throwawayAITA92848 had the chance to get organized and meet the team, she got herself into a tricky situation.
You see, throwawayAITA92848 doesn’t wear bras. She doesn’t like them. The woman didn’t wear one for her last job and she didn’t put one on for her first days at the new office as well. However, throwawayAITA92848 has already received negative comments from her colleagues and now she doesn’t know what to do. So she turned to Reddit, asking “[Am I the jerk] for not wearing a bra to work?” and described the entire ordeal, hoping people would give her useful advice. Here’s what she wrote.
Image credits: Karolina Grabowska (not the actual photo)
Image credits: throwawayAITA92848
The woman chose this particular company because it made a really good impression on her. “I only got a job offer from two companies, and this one offered way more money for a software engineering job than I expected, so I took it,” throwawayAITA92848 told Bored Panda.
She also said that her male colleagues wear mostly t-shirts and shirts with jeans and pants. “My female colleagues dress casually but you can say that women working on my project are more conservative than others.”
Tan France, a British-Pakistani-American fashion designer, television personality, and author, said that business casual doesn’t necessarily mean casual. “What it actually means is that you don’t have to wear a suit and tie,” he explained. “Business casual workwear usually includes a collared shirt (button-up or polo shirt) or sweater on top, with slacks, khakis, chinos, or a pencil skirt on the bottom. You may also wish to add a blazer or sport coat, but you don’t necessarily need a custom-tailored suit jacket. Shoes should be closed-toe and professional, whether you choose boots, heels, flats, loafers, mules, or oxfords. Business casual is a good way to dress if you’re unsure of what kind of environment you’re walking into since it falls somewhere between business professional and casual.”
A casual office dress code is even less restrictive than business casual, but Tan France highlighted that doesn’t mean people should dress as casually as you would outside of work. “This type of work attire is common in creative industries and on casual Fridays at more formal workplaces. To maintain a professional look while wearing casual clothing, look for button-downs, blouses, and T-shirts in solid colors and dark-wash or black denim free from rips and holes. Although clean sneakers may be okay, stick to closed-toe shoes, and always avoid flip-flops,” he said.
If someone is not sure which level is most appropriate for their work environment, Sylvie di Giusto, founder of Executive Image Consulting, told Business Insider that the basic rule of thumb is “the more you deal with a client’s money, the more traditional and conservative you should be dressed.”
In general, that means that people in finance, law, and accounting, for instance, should stick to traditional business attire, and those in creative industries, like entertainment and advertising, can dress more flexibly within the casual levels.
If it were to boil down to throwawayAITA92848 having to make a decision between her job and wearing a bra, however, she said she would go with the former. “I would choose my job, obviously, I need to survive.”
Here’s what people think of the situation
If something is obvious enough for so many people to be able to even tell you’re not wearing a bra....how would they know?.....then there is something amiss with your attire. Completely against the unnecessary sexualisation of the female body (or men’s for that matter) or clothes censorship btw but something is clearly making others uncomfortable enough to notice, and flag.
I am probably going to get downvoted for this, but I believe that in this case, she is in the wrong for refusing to wear a bra. If people are approaching her about it, then it must be noticeable that she isn't wearing a bra. I don't like wearing a bra either, but I know that in the workplace I have to wear one in order to keep down problems.
But isn't that sad though? The fact that you have to wear one to keep down problems just because others have decided that even the shape of a boob through layers and layers of clothes is uncomfortable? I get it! But I wish we'd have this discussion more and ask ourselves if standards need to change. In the 70s it was considered way more normal not to wear one.
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I'm sorry. Could someone please explain to me how her bra is anyone's business but her own.
@tuzdayschild I totally agree with you if she was in her own space or on her own time, but she is in a public space, on the clock and there have been complaints. It's etiquette. Lets say you don't like wearing clothes at home. Good for you if that's your choice. Move that into a public space and you have others to consider.
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If 4 different people mentioned it to her, it must be noticeable esp when she stated herself she got large boobs cause in all honesty, unless they are wrapped in layers n layers, only small breasted women can get away with hiding they r braless. Just like wearing pants and covered shoes, its about professionalism in the workplace. Work with it or leave.
Not true! I'm a freaking 32 A, which is the smallest bra size next to a damn training bra. My nipples are very visable unless I'm wearing something really loose.
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I find this really absurd. I am typically annoying by these "gender thing" postings as they tend to label jerk behaviour as gender-specific offence, but this one is just revealing. No one would tell a beer-bellied guy to wear a harness to stop his shirt from looking like the buttons will be bursting.
They may discretely pull him to one side and suggest getting a bigger shirt though - it has happened. There are professional standards to maintain and some of them are stupid. But even taking gender out of it, if your workplace requires you to wear a neon orange shirt, even though it makes you look pasty and unwell, you wear the orange shirt, or you find another job. It's a sad reality that while exchanging your time for money, your employer also gets to dictate (to a certain extent) the professional image it wants you to project while representing their company. If her company requires her to restrain the girls, she has to do it to keep her job. If her company requires her to tie long hair back, she has to do it to keep her job. If her company requires all men to be clean shaven, they have to do it to keep their job. Note, there are protected exceptions to this which I'm ignoring for the sake of this example.
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Sounds like some sexist crap to me, I see dudes in the office with big breast exposed all of the time that aren't told to wear a bra. Don't nobody care if it makes me "uncomfortable," but because she's a woman her breast have to be covered up? A lot of y'all females be hating too hard; no woman should have to adhere to a standard that's not expected of their male counterpart in an equal society.
I've suggested to a few men that they needed a bra... Or at least an undershirt. Who wants to see that?
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As a person who would rather than die than go into public without a bra.... why are covered but un-scaffolded breasts such an issue? What if she had a pendulous belly that sorta wobbled when she walked like unsupported breasts, would she be expected to wear a girdle or else be deemed inappropriate? And why do women's breasts need to be artificially held high and outward, which arguably makes the shape of them much MORE obvious, to be acceptable in public? She can't just exist the way she is? I feel this same way about making men shave in dress codes though... I don't think employers should be able to demand you to modify your body to keep a job you've been hired for if you're perfectly qualified otherwise.
I like the way you worded this, especially the part about the scaffolding. I don’t know the answer. I love my bras too. Can’t imagine going in public without them. Unless I’m literally in a bikini. I wish people wouldn’t make a big deal about boobs. But I kind of understand unspoken dress code rules too. I do think jiggly bellies would look more professional if they were under control. A muffin top makes people look “not well put together.” But that also seems classist and discriminatory against someone’s size. I wish appearances didn’t matter at work.
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Nor should you ever be required to unless you choose to.
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I haven't worn a bra in 10 years. They are uncomfortable. If people stare or comment it is their problem. Why are they staring at my boobs?!
what i don't like about this story : it's covered, you can't see anything, yet everybody complains that it's too obvious. So your own premise is already wrong that it can't be seen.
Even when the breasts are fully covered, it's often possible to tell that a woman is not wearing a bra.The breasts are unsupported, so there is much more movement, in a place on the body where there is usually not much movements. The breasts may also be sitting lower on the body when a bra is not worn, depending on the size of the breasts and the age of the woman.
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What am I missing here? They're breasts. Every Woman (and some men) have them. She says she's covering them up, then they're covered up and appropriate. I work with guys who have big bellies peeking out of the bottom of their shirts half the day, that's exposed skin, and no one says anything...
That’s the point, no one said anything when there wasn’t an obvious issue. For several people to find issue, to voice a subject we’d all much rather either not bother about, or not confront, I surely think there is more being revealed than the op cares to acknowledge. I highly doubt anyone would really be paying that much attention unless it was ‘in their face’. And yes, while we shouldn’t overtly sexualise, it’s not prudish to not want what are socially inferred ‘intimate areas’ on show in a way which makes others uncomfortable. I’d say the same about pronounced camel toes, penis bulges, butt cracks. It’s not sexual, and it’s not sexist.
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i'm 63. this issue on boobs/nipples is so old & in some ways is american attitude. seems we are the only ones who still have issues w/human body & sexuality. yes, i wore bra pre-retirement but dress code didn't have demand for it. what it did have was demand for nylons/pantyhose which i took umbrage w/due to working in 100+ degrees as did all the other women but no one would say anything. finally went to big boss & asked for increase in pay for health related costs. he asked for specifics & i told him for rash/infections related to wearing items that caused them. he was clueless to the problems it caused. shortly afterwards memo came out stating when temps over 80 nylons didn't have to be required. small victory created from open mind & education.
F*ck em, don't wear it. I don't. And if anyone ever made any suggestions about my clothes I would be very glad to oblige them with a very loud comment that they should also find some time to do the work they are paid to do instead of spending too much time staring at my chest.
As a guy, if anybody is looking at a woman’s chest for that long as to notice, they’re creepy.
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First, this is a common problem for big breasted women who wear a bra or not. A friend of mine was questioned as to whether or not she was wearing one. She was offended. Especially since she did have one on, because it was part of the dress code, yet none of those same managers questioned the petite girls who obviously weren't wearing a bra because their nipples would be standing out like coat hangers when the wind got chilly. Second, if she wants to get past the Bras requirement, but still be comfortable, might I suggest lounge bras that are made from T-Shirt material. They give you some support, but aren't uncomfortable.
Or even one of those tight tank tops. Or a sports bra.
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While what's going on inside her shirt is her business, she's not going to last at that company without getting her tatas under control. She was told by four different people (including her boss) in two days that they find her clothing choices unprofessional. I'm sympathetic- I have a large chest and wearing bras is a special kind of torture. But work is work. You think men enjoy wearing neckties?
Not gonna lie, I'm just jealous that's she's large chested and doesn't have enormous back pain going braless.
I was thinking the same thing. I wear some bras for the back support, not the boob support!
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Also, for larger breasted women, the right size bra can provide support - and take the strain off your back, so there's that too (not a professional, but I've heard so from some large breasted women) After a car accident, where my chest hit the steering wheel, mine were bruised badly, and my sternum was hurt as well - and a sports bra was all I could wear for some time, because it relieved the pressure of the weight of my breastesses.
I wonder how the narrative would change it were a well endowed guy who was wearing linen trousers with no underwear.
Breast are not genatalia and the fact that they are considered the same by many is part of the over sexualization of women.
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Why are people afraid of women’s breasts? On movies and tv shows it is fine for violence to be shown and blood but as soon as a woman’s bare breasts are shown people freak out.
Only in America. Most other countries are the opposite. In many European countries you might see a nude woman (waste up) in a TV commercial for a shower gel or something like that. It isn't common, but it happens. Violence on the other hand will cause people to freak out.
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The thing is that if she was covered up that well and people STILL noticed that she was not wearing a bra, then she is, sadly, exactly that type who better wears one. She herself admits that she has big breasts. In that case is really just better to dress modestly, dress code or no. Life is unfair but I am really glad that for some people this is the biggest problems of their lives.
As an old school male I'm honestly 100% ok with women not wearing bras. Go ahead and vote me down for my opinion if that makes your life happier.
I don’t think this should be downvoted and I’m a woman. I think it’s more what I would expect. The majority of straight men like to see boobs, whenever they can. Seems natural to me. It’s people who keep telling her to wear a bra that are weird. Of course YOU like it, B. You like boobs. It blows my mind that there are men who like women / boobs who would tell her to cover up actually lol
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My wife had a fellow student (long time ago) who, I kid you not, moved to here (Germany) from USA after her semester abroad because she was so thrilled that she do not need to wear bra.
The answer probably depends on breast size (since that's a big factor in how noticeable it is), but if several people noticed your lack of bra while you were wearing a sweater, it's obviously pretty noticeable. But whether you're TA or not, if you want to continue working there, wear the bra.
There are guys who have men boobs bigger than my boobs. Should they wear a bra too?
Men's 'breasts' are not sexual... women's breasts are. Disagree with me????? Turn on your TV, open a magazine, scroll through tiktok, or open a millenials FB page to see that 90% of women have photos of themselves in a bikini
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Bras were invented to enhance a woman's body without the need for a corset and to make the cleavage more visible. These days you could say that a bra for large breasted women offers more support, but in this case the OP clearly feels more comfortable without. I am surprised by these comments. This is her body. She is not going into work wearing a little crop top, or a low-cut blouse. She is remaining covered but refusing to wear something that would make her large breasts look even bigger (which a bra would as it pushes up the breasts). The year is 2021. Not 1921. This is like the high heels debate - some women have been threatened with the sack for daring to wear flats instead of heels. High heels elongate the legs and make a women's shape more attractive apparently. Once again it's all about how women look and not how they perform. OP, if your performance is good then ask for a meeting with your manager. Don't listen to comments on the internet.
SOME bras were made for that....the sports bra was made in the 70s/80s by women who wanted to move freely while running and doing sports. They make your boobs look smaller, and are made to increase your performance. It's her body, but no one is asking her to change her body, only her dress. No shoes, no bra, no service
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I think maybe there might be a little "I wish I was that brave to go braless" going on? Who knows? I do find it funny as a gay guy that other women are offended by this ladies breasts. Where's the comradarie? The Women empowerment sentiment? Her body, her choice? I thought it was. Unless another woman is offended?
I'm a bit torn. I don't usually wear a bra, even to work or even if my nipples show (if its cold) because i believe breasts isnt sexual in a non sexual context (and i have small breasts so i dont have the need for support). That being said: at work you need to follow their dress code. If they want you to wear a bra you wear a bra. Its "their" place and not your own. Its not the right place to make a statement.
But it is not dress code, she said there wasn't one.
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1. She should probably wear a bra at work but if she really doesn't want to, whatevs if no skin is showing and she isn't tucking in her shirt under her boobs. 2. Her workplace should have consulted HR first. What kind of underwear she is or is not wearing is none of their business. I have a rule for dressing professionally: I should not be able to describe your underwear. I've worked in elementary schools and child care and I've seen way too much of my coworkers but no one said a word to them. I, however, got complaints because my breasts are big. Not being shown, just that they existed.
Butt cracks are seen a LOT. Breasts, too, from crouching and leaning. I only said anything- quietly- to staff for chronic butt crack showings. I had a coworker with large boobs and she had them showing because she wore low cut shirts. They were held in and not exposed, nobody had an issue-not our boss, no parents, no kids. But her buttcrack was always out. I didnt say anything to her. I have seen things exposed bent over and I just turn away. Not my business. Hygeine is key - we had a male staff with cognitive impairments so he had no idea he smelled, his gut hung out, buttcrack was always exposed. We all had to discuss with him his pants situation. It wasn't a crouching peep show for him, but a 24|7 coin slot.
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That's the trick, however. If nobody is staring at your breasts due to their size, the swaying and movement is going to draw attention to them. As a hetero guy, I'd be lying if I said that my eyes are not drawn to breast movement. I don't mean the swiveling head, "AAA-OOOOGA," eyes popping out 3 feet kind of attention. More times than not I don't even look! (A Herculean effort!) But an awareness was raised. (Note to self: Do NOT make "raised awareness" joke! You're trying to be serious for once!). The motion of breasts is something most men are particularly attuned to, whether we like it or not. I realize that I am sexualizing women's breasts with this post, but it's to make a long-winded point. As some of the commenters here have said, wearing a bra holds them in place, is more comfortable and they're not swaying around. And in my first-hand experience, that doesn't steal my attention as much as free-swaying breasts, large or small, however covered. That's a Catch 32DD.
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I feel like all of the comparisons between a man's visible penis and a woman's breasts are comparing apples and oranges for a number of reasons. If we are going to make comparisons We should be comparing the breasts of women with a man with a large chest (weather the chest is muscle or not). The fact is that if the shape of a man's chest, or even his nipples, are clearly visible they are not asked to cover them or "restrain" them. People have also been arguing that women derive sexual pleasure from their breasts and nipples which makes them a sexual organ, but the fact is many men also derive sexual pleasure from their nipples, it's just not as widely accepted. This makes a woman's breasts and a mans chest even more similar than many people like to acknowledge.
It’s not biologically comparable, it’s socially comparable. Butt crack, heaving boobs, penis bulges, camel toes, nipples of both sexes, testicles....unwanted in the workplace. Get em out all you like in your social life.
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I have to be honest, I don't really think anyone is in the wrong here, but she might still want to wear a bra for the sake of her own career. Obviously, breasts should be normalized, but any body part that's super noticeable under clothing (guy's nipples/moobs included honestly, it's sort of strange to see ) is bound to make people a bit uncomfortable. And in this case, this person really might want keep the peace with her coworkers and boss if this is a new job- I'd rather have a steady job and have to wear an annoying bra than be jobless but bra-free.
I do not wear underwear. I stopped in my teens. I hate it. However, I have never gone to work without it. I agree with the etiquette comment. Be aware of your surroundings. Whether or not you think people notice, they do. Same as if someone has their underwear or thong showing way above their pants. Please. Don't do that.
Wearing a bra is also good for your boobs. It takes the strain off of tendons and ligaments that hold them up. Prevents droopage. Prevents back pain. Bras are for support. Who ever complains about seeing the shape of your boobs is an idiot, but you should wear one for proper support.
They don't have ANY business knowing. She does not have to say anything past "Thank you for your concern." If they are distracted that is THEIR problem, not hers. She can make a complaint about it. it means they are looking and are paying attention. She does not control their thoughts. For all they know she has a medical reason.
I think the author is downplaying it, if two strangers have said they can notice it then it must be pretty visible. In a professional environment she should just wear it. same if a man is heavily endowed & was wearing very tight trousers all the time because he liked it I’d expect the same. It’s basic etiquette. One time I was wearing a bra but it was one of those non wire ones & you could see my nipples through the pink top I was wearing. It wasn’t intentional & no one said it to me but I noticed when I was in the bathroom & saw myself in the mirror. I had to take pieces of tissue & pad then between my skin & the bra to conceal it as I was mortified.
How would you feel if a male co-worker was wearing close-fitting lycra that clearly outlined his genitals? They are covered. The outfit might be appropriate in other contexts, such as cycling. *He* doesn't consider this a problem - he doesn't mean anything sexual by it, and says he feels most comfortable dressed this way. He points out that penises aren't just for having sex with - they are also used for urination, a basic bodily need, and he doesn't see why you are constantly sexualising them. It isn't explicitly forbidden by the dress code. Does this make it acceptable business attire? Breasts are sexual signals as well as being used for breast-feeding. They are sexual for far more of your life than you spend breastfeeding, so unless you are lactating, put them away. Find a more comfortable bra - try a sports bra, or a compression top. This is not your home.
Screw a Sports bra. Every one I've ever tried feels like my tits are in a vice. In this day and age of miraculous inventions, you think someone could come up with a bra that's supportive and comfortable without using wire or spandex that strangles the crap out a woman's chest. And why does everything have to be lacy...?
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First thing I do when I come home is take off my bra. But I feel it's professional attire at work. I went without bra for a few days (because of a fresh tattoo) and felt so uncomfortable, even though nobody said/saw a thing.
She NTA, but, if she has been approached about it, then she should wear one. We are only getting her side of the story here, so of course she going to say that it wasn't noticeable. People are especially going to notice if her breasts are large. We can complain all we want about bras, but the fact is, it's standard practice, just as much as close toed shoes.
She has large breasts and they move a lot with simple movement. I doubt it's just the shape, it's likely the movement that is making people uncomfortable.
By that logic people with large bellies should wear girdles to stop those moving around too, in case it makes people uncomfortable.
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It's not an easy discussion to have with someone, about something that is so personal. If that many people came up to her to say it, it's blatantly obvious that she is not wearing one. I hate bras, so I get not wanting to wear one.. but.. apparently, this office feels you need to detain the puppies.
LOL, detain the puppies. "Ma'am, do you know why I pulled you over? Your breasts were exceeding the speed limit in this office."
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I wouldn't want a guy to come to the office in pants so tight you could see the outline of his penis. People don't want to see other peoples outlines and bodies at work. There is a certain way to dress at work and in general.
If all those peoolw noticed that she doesn't wear a bra, then it is rather obvious that she isn't wearing one.
Wear a bralette or a tight tanktop underneath. Keeps everything together and it's not a bra.
A good sports bra wouldn't be as uncomfortable as a regular bra, especially if you're bigger breasted
Unrelated to this, but I went to a wedding where the maid of honor apparently thought that her small breasts meant that she didn't need to wear a bra. And under normal circumstances she would have been right. But her light silk top coupled with the frigid air conditioning in the church meant that her decision to go braless was obvious to everyone and she was the talk of the wedding.
This is akin to a well endowed man wearing very tight fitting trousers. Can he wear them at the office? Yes. Should he? Most probably not, because while it's all natural and fine, it's not appropriate. A big chested lady should be mindful that it is not very professional either. It's not about sexualising the woman or the man, it's just not the place for it. That's my take on it anyway.
I mean I do agree she has to wear a bra. It is standard etiquette. If I wear jeans that are tight enough where you can see my penis then tell me. I will change pants. This is almost the same thing with the bra. If four people tell you "hey we can kinda see your nipples" then wear a bra. I get its uncomfortable, but if you want to keep this job your gonna have to wear a bra.
Definitely not the asshole. If there's nothing in the employee handbook it's their problem. The supervisor is a coward. He needs to tell you himself if he thinks it's a problem.
The A cup comment bothered me. I am an A cup and my nipples are very noticeable if not wearing a bra. Doesnt matter the size, all boobs are different for different reasons.
I don’t think they were talking about nips. They were talking about the size, shape, jiggling and structure of her boobs.
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I think I need photographic evidence to correctly judge this situation.
Whether we like it or not, at a workplace there is a dresscode even if it's unofficial! I also feel a lot more comfortable without a bra, but I'm wearing at work! I also feel more comfortable with my pijamas, but I don't wear them at work! Would it be better if people wouldn't see a woman's breast as a scandal? Of course! But we are not there yet and if too many people told you so, then it means that something is obvious then! Learn which fights are worth to give and don't lose your job over a bra! You can always wear an athletic one which is more comfortable!
How can they tell she's not wearing a bra if her nipples aren't showing? If it's that obvious she could just wear and under shirt or a padded tank, I don't think it's an unreasonable request to wear a bra at work in this society. I do wish that it wasn't such an issue but the reality is what it is.
I've no idea how a grown person who works in the office environment can't understand the rules of dress codes. Even if the dress code is barely nonexistent, a bra is necessary just like it's necessary for males to wear a t-shirt or a tank top under their shirt so that the body is not seen by others. You come to the office to work, and it's your responsibility to let others work. The visible shape of breasts can be distracting to both men and women, just like body lines or nipples on the male body can be distracting - thus the undergarments. Wanna ditch the bras? Work remotely. BTW, I'm not wearing bras for like 3 years now. And i'm a freelancer so i work at home. Yet, if i'm to attend some work-related event or a meeting with clients or colleagues - i'm most likely wearing a soft bralette that's comfortable for me and covers my breasts.
This sounds like an episode of Seinfeld. The Caddy. Anyone remember that one? Elaine can't stand that an old high school frenemy doesn't wear a bra, so she gifts her one as a birthday present, but her friend thinks it's a top so she wears that and nothing over it, and it causes Jerry and Kramer to crash George's car.
We shouldn't have to tell grown adults how to dress for the workplace, as there is and has always been a code (sometimes written, sometimes unwritten) as to what is appropriate in particular types of work environments, but there's always someone who feels like it doesn't apply to them and pushes the boundaries. Regardless of how she feels about bras or how relaxed her last job was, she is on this company's clock and has to conform to their standards or else choose not to work there. And whether boobs are natural and shouldn't be sexualized is not the point here. Why bother to cover your buttcheeks? Or your belly button? Yet people just know you are supposed to do it in a professional environment.
If your girls are galloping, drooping past your belly button, or reaching out to touch someone for a beastfeeding session, flip outward when you bend, or wag like a dogs tail when you walk... You ARE the Asshole. It is inappropriate in a workplace. Have some sensibilities.
If your work does not have a dress code then it's not against the rules. However, against the rules or not, if enough people are bothered by it you might want to switch jobs or wear one. It's up to you.
Yeah that's weird to go braless to your job. it is a professional setting and you need to be professional, especially at a new job. Her previous job the workers probably made jokes behind her back about it. If people are saying things then it was very noticeable, and they can definitely tell then it is a problem. There are very comfortable bras out there, sports bras even, smarten up
I think it’s time to invest in a good bra, see if that may make it more comfortable for her. You can tell a good bra from a bad one usually like this: if you are constantly aware you are wearing one, it’s a bad one. This is kinda in line with all the other women who say the first thing they do when coming home is taking their bras off. I felt like that too when all I had were cheap bras that didn‘t fit properly. It makes such a difference.
She doesn't have to wear a bra per se, but clearly, her coworkers have an issue with it and aren't comfortable, could she not just wear a camisole? I feel like this is a stupid thing to argue over because the solution seems clear, just find something that covers them a litle more.
That’s really reasonable to me. Even though I don’t think she should be forced to do anything, it seems like a fair compromise and a more reasonable request. Like you don’t have to wear a bra but just quell the titties a little.
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I haven't worn a bra regularly in about 5 or 6 years. 90% of my clothing you can't tell, for the 10% you can I put on a bra. Here is the thing, bras are designed to make your breast look more appealing...so you are saying we have to sexually enhance our bodies and change the natural shape? It is a hill I am willing to die on to be honest. I would fight it and if they fired me I would try fighting that too in court for discrimination. Probably would not win a lawsuit in court, but I think it is an important conversation to have about the natural shape of women's bodies not being seen as professional. Bras are unnecessary, uncomfortable, can cause weaker muscles, and not standard globally. Yes it is standard now but speaking out can change that. I have small breast, you could never tell if I am wearing a bra or not in most clothing, but I don't feel like it is okay for me to not wear a bra and not okay for other women because they have larger breast.
If a man has a huge nipple and just wear a thin fabric which obviously the nipple can poke through, your eyes will definitely go down in his chest. Inevitably. And in your head, you will also say, why don't this man wear a thick shirt or double shirt or anything to cover his breast?
But would you complain about it him, HR or the boss?
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I also disagree with the overall sexualization of women's breasts, when they are covered with clothing. She said her nipples weren't visible, but I have a hard time imagining how anyone would know she's not wearing a bra without some sort of nipple shape being visible. So while I do agree with the idea that women should not have to wear a bra if their shirt is not sheer or see through, I don't think that culturally or societally we are there yet, especially in a professional setting. I think a similar argument could potentially be made about a man choosing to wear extremely tight fitting pants, and having his bulge super visible. Like on the one hand, people should be able to wear what makes them comfortable, right? But on the other hand, people are going to notice and sexualize something of that nature because it is outside of the general "comfort zone" in terms of societal and cultural norms.
question is would OP feel the same way if a man was noticeably NOT wearing underwear? Something to think about.
It's completely bonkers her colleagues are complaining to her about this, if her breasts are covered then it's no one's business of she's wearing a bra or not. I don't wear a bra half the time and no one has ever made a comment about it. Bralettes are a good alternative if her colleagues continue being a-holes tho.
I have severe backpain from wearing bras. Paid lots of money to different professionals, even one recommended by Oprah to get me a fitted bra that doesnt hurt. Doesn't work.All bras caused the weight to be shifted to a different area of the body causing tension. I CANNOT wear a bra. I am sorry but your temporary visual discomfort of looking at me, vs. the pain that a bra causes me is not a fair expectation. I'll go get a doctors note if thats what you really want, but F**K bras and the expectation we need to wear one. Do men need to wear jock straps at work?
I would very much like to know what would happen if she answered that she is wearing one. Or if she were to wear one so comfortable as to give no support. Would they go as far as to make her undress to verify that , or dictate her what kind of bra she is wearing ? This is such an intrusive dresscode I can't understand how they mean to enforce it. You can probably ask that nipples don't be seen, that's verifyable. But to scrutinize the shape her boobs should have under two layers of clothes, really ?
"AITA for going topless at work? My last job never said anything when I went topless, there's no dress code, I'm more comfortable that way..." Get it yet?
I would comment further if you had included a photo or two so we could see what your new office has seen. If you have large breasts or sagging breasts, one needs a bra.
Big busted, without a bra and obviously not very young? I can not see how she is not uncomfortable, they must be swinging all over the place.
@sarah was she naked? No! Were her private parts properly covered? Yes! USA claims to be so about rules. So write a dress code. In Germany you wouldn't get through with it to fire somebody just because you THINK she don't dress properly. And it's none of the business of the empkees anyway.
They're fully covered and no nipple showing. I really don't see what their issue is!
Key info that is missing is what type of company it is and does she come into contact with clients who will also be able to observe the problem. If you are doing something that makes your colleagues uncomfortable then if you are new you might want to change that behaviour. You need to learn to compromise even when you are morally right. Dictating what people wear is pretty weird unless it is a strict dress code like in a hotel or a law firm. I used to work in an office where a guy wore a suit and sandals in the summer, I don't know which company he worked for but he always made me laugh when I saw him.
Will probably be downvoted too. This is such a unnecessary age old debate. Why the fear of seeing the outline of the bits. It’s sad that most people think we need to conform to this old standard just because it’s an ‘unspoken rule’... i see men sweating out of their shirts daily in southeast asia office but aint nobody tells them to cover up. No they’re not wearing another layer inside.
This story reminds me of one of my daughter's 9th grade teachers on Meet the Teacher Night. The young, first-year female teacher was dressed professionally except for her bra - I could see her nipples through her dress. My daughter's class was a small one with 1-2 girls and 13 boys. Thirteen 14-15 year old boys. For some reason, this teacher couldn't manage the behavior behavior
Tell them you are wearing one. Or wear a bralette, "unbra", camisole, pasties.... but you don't know why they are so... boob focused at this new job.
Just say that you are. When they ask for proof, go to HR and tell them is coworker is demanding to see your underwear.
No. It is completely inappropriate for people to discuss your body, especially at work. If you do not want to wear a bra, that is your decision. As long as you are not wearing revealing clothing or see through clothing, it is fine. People need to quit shaming women and quit shaming women's boobs. Especially other women.
"My face is up here." "Why are you looking at my boobs, anyway?" What shape, dimensions, or height should boobs be? Honestly, your co-workers need a life!
Screw that, when I came back from mat leave, most of 2020, I have not worn a bra since I returned to work. If a guy wears tight pants where you can see the outline of his little solider, why can't we women/and men with breasts, go without a bra?? Bras are not typically listed as office attire, I feel like your company really has no say on your undergarments or lack thereof. Unspoken etiquette...really?? How about the etiquette on not commenting on your coworkers attire, as that can be seen as workplace harassment.
Seems there's a bit of internalised misogyny going on in that office... This is like that City firm that got sued because they told women they *must* wear high heels in the office. Are there going to be mandatory underwear checks? Should professional attire include thongs or camiknickers? I always wear a bra out of the house but it wouldn't bother me in the slightest if someone else didn't.
The fact that it's at your job - is why you should respect their request. If it was at a mall, or other public space, ignoring their opinion is fine. You can dress as you wish out of work, but if it's something your manager has raised as a serious issue, have respect.
What about respecting her? They should mind their own business unless she's shoving her boobs in everyone's face all day.
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I wonder if men didn't wear clean or any underpants if they would go through this?
Wow. This makes me want to NOT wear a bra. It is never spelled out in any dress codes, and men are not required to put elastic around their wiener so you can't see it. This is ABSURD that she should be required to do this. What's next will we REQUIRE overweight people to wear shapewear because its unprofessional to have rolls?
Ask them why they are looking at your boobs and if you should report them to HR for sexual misconduct and harassment
I don’t mean any offense, but I think I would wear a bra for just my own sake. The fact that both male and female coworkers were even telling me to wear a bra would make me feel uncomfortable enough to wear one.. or maybe even quit, because who likes a job where you get judged by the way you dress? No one ever tells men to cover up their bellies or visible tops, but women get treated like this in specific workplaces... it’s really absurd.
I don’t see how that’s rude at all. It’s just your opinion. I honestly don’t know what I would do. I always always always wear a bra. I can’t even sleep comfortably without one. It just feels too exposed and they move around too much and I end up feeling cold.
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She's been bra-less for 2 years. I'm assuming she's a professional and knows that there are things called 'dress codes' and she knows how to navigate the world at large with the body she was born with or crafted out of sugar and spice and everything nice. She went to the job interviews with no bra. She went to all of her interviews with no bra. At this company and other companies and got multiple offers, sans brassiere. It has been a non-issue for such a long time that it is a surprise when strangers call her out on it. NTA. But as a precaution, temporarily wear one until you can read the office correctly and then burn it when you get your confidence back. If the place is that toxic and it's testing you for weakness? Get out as soon as possible.
If she wore a bra, they'd still be able to see the shape of her breasts. They'd just be slightly higher and more together.
Are you sure shirts are not see through? You def should not have to wear one if nothing is showing. I mean I guess if you have large breast it will always be visible that you are not wearing a bra. Ultimately, whether or not you are a jerk is irrelevant. You are going against social code( regardless of how stupid) you have to decide if you are ready to pick the fight. This is a problem it is not ok for them to even say anything unless you are showing your breast like literally. People go without underwear and those with small breast get away with no bras all the time. I will tell you what I tell my daughter you can be different than what society deems acceptable and fight for yourself and future generations or you can conform. Fighting is harder and it means you will be hurt in some way. The compensation you may receive for a lawsuit will be satisfying in a way and disappointing in others. There is obviously a need for change and this could be a catalyst. Whatever you decide is ok
Of course they cant tell you what to do but it is indeed a new job and you are the newbee. Sorry for being lame, but unfortunately this one for me is on a case by case basis. Some people, despite who and how they are, in this kind of situation 1. could look more vulgare than others 2. That fact that you are a software engineer entails there are more men than woman so are distractiing to the business (i was told not wear perfume) 3. They will make you feel unconfortable until the inévitable. Its still a mans world with woman who still defend it
This one is ridiculously simple, I can't see why anyone would think otherwise. When you are employed by a company, you are a representative of that company and your appearance should reflect that during your working hours. This is not even about bras! My wife has worn a bra a grand total of 3 times in her entire life. If you had to do business with another company and saw some presented in the way you are, would you be ok with it? If you feel that your presentation is a suitable one for work then it is acceptable.
Interesting discussion! Many valid points made that I hadn't consider before - let alone even thought about. I have always just worn a bra outside of the house. Thinking about it now, I guess I do it because that's what is expected and is deemed appropriate.
How about RESPECTING your colleagues and not pushing your dangling big tits into their faces with the feminist warcry "this is my body!" It is NOT your home. And as long as it is perfectly acceptable and intelligent NOT to go in a swimsuit to work or men parading around in trunks of wearing flipflops, you really should adult up and know how to dress in an appropriate way. If your body is covered by several layers and 4 people in 2 days told you to cover your teats then it means that yeah, your udders are HUGE and nobody wants to see them. Now you have two choices: you either flip out and leave or suck it up and get some comfortable sport bra. I can't believe that adult, intelligent people have no idea about how to dress properly at a workplace.
How them respecting her by minding their own business.
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Who decided that women need to restrict their boobs for other people's comfort? Bras are uncomfortable and this woman isn't nude or anything. Stop staring at her boobs and it won't bother you.
Funny how all the men in these comments are in favor of women going braless, and trying desperately to reframe it as sexist to insist she wear a bra at work. I call bullshit on each and every one of you pervs. Because all you would do is ogle her, sexualize every single thing she did, make excuses for her to walk by you, and create scenarios where you brush up against her. Then get together with the other guys and talk about what you’d like to do to her (snowball’s chance in hell of it ever happening, btw). Tell you what; you keep your creepy comments to yourselves, and I won’t need to call you out for them. Also in future, don’t try to hide your puerile fascination with breasts under the guise of being against sexism, sexualization, or objectification. We see right through you, and can tell those are things you are very guilty of. Because you’re not as clever at hiding it as you evidently think you are.
Wait, what? Why are they telling her to wear a bra? Do me with large pecs need to wear a bra? Bras are not compulsory! It's crazy to say that women must wear a bra, boobs are part of our bodies, stop treating them like sexulised objects.
Go on tiktok for 2 minutes and THEN tell me that it's because of men that women are being glorified into sex objects. It's WOMEN who are smothering the entire digital world with their smut, but you call me out on this????
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Find a large husky male in the office who's chest is also without a bra an state that if you have to, then males should too. You could just put a camisole on as an under shirt an then daily clothing choices. I have large breasts too but I bra them because they otherwise get in my way. Those people should have just gone to hr an made their issue known. Albeit they did mention to you they had an issue an it could also be distracting male co-workers too. If you still choice not to and don't like the comments maybe find a different job because their views won't change if so many in so few days are talking about it and also to you directly.
Most of the things you mentioned that women do are probably not mandated by the business, depending on the job. They choose to go to those lengths to get ready. Yes, there are societal "expectations," but you're not forced to do all that. As a guy, I appreciate when they do, but I don't look down on or criticize women who don't, if only for the simple reason that I wouldn't want to go to all that trouble to get ready every day.
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If something is obvious enough for so many people to be able to even tell you’re not wearing a bra....how would they know?.....then there is something amiss with your attire. Completely against the unnecessary sexualisation of the female body (or men’s for that matter) or clothes censorship btw but something is clearly making others uncomfortable enough to notice, and flag.
I am probably going to get downvoted for this, but I believe that in this case, she is in the wrong for refusing to wear a bra. If people are approaching her about it, then it must be noticeable that she isn't wearing a bra. I don't like wearing a bra either, but I know that in the workplace I have to wear one in order to keep down problems.
But isn't that sad though? The fact that you have to wear one to keep down problems just because others have decided that even the shape of a boob through layers and layers of clothes is uncomfortable? I get it! But I wish we'd have this discussion more and ask ourselves if standards need to change. In the 70s it was considered way more normal not to wear one.
Load More Replies... I'm sorry. Could someone please explain to me how her bra is anyone's business but her own.
@tuzdayschild I totally agree with you if she was in her own space or on her own time, but she is in a public space, on the clock and there have been complaints. It's etiquette. Lets say you don't like wearing clothes at home. Good for you if that's your choice. Move that into a public space and you have others to consider.
Load More Replies... If 4 different people mentioned it to her, it must be noticeable esp when she stated herself she got large boobs cause in all honesty, unless they are wrapped in layers n layers, only small breasted women can get away with hiding they r braless. Just like wearing pants and covered shoes, its about professionalism in the workplace. Work with it or leave.
Not true! I'm a freaking 32 A, which is the smallest bra size next to a damn training bra. My nipples are very visable unless I'm wearing something really loose.
Load More Replies... I find this really absurd. I am typically annoying by these "gender thing" postings as they tend to label jerk behaviour as gender-specific offence, but this one is just revealing. No one would tell a beer-bellied guy to wear a harness to stop his shirt from looking like the buttons will be bursting.
They may discretely pull him to one side and suggest getting a bigger shirt though - it has happened. There are professional standards to maintain and some of them are stupid. But even taking gender out of it, if your workplace requires you to wear a neon orange shirt, even though it makes you look pasty and unwell, you wear the orange shirt, or you find another job. It's a sad reality that while exchanging your time for money, your employer also gets to dictate (to a certain extent) the professional image it wants you to project while representing their company. If her company requires her to restrain the girls, she has to do it to keep her job. If her company requires her to tie long hair back, she has to do it to keep her job. If her company requires all men to be clean shaven, they have to do it to keep their job. Note, there are protected exceptions to this which I'm ignoring for the sake of this example.
Load More Replies... Sounds like some sexist crap to me, I see dudes in the office with big breast exposed all of the time that aren't told to wear a bra. Don't nobody care if it makes me "uncomfortable," but because she's a woman her breast have to be covered up? A lot of y'all females be hating too hard; no woman should have to adhere to a standard that's not expected of their male counterpart in an equal society.
I've suggested to a few men that they needed a bra... Or at least an undershirt. Who wants to see that?
Load More Replies... As a person who would rather than die than go into public without a bra.... why are covered but un-scaffolded breasts such an issue? What if she had a pendulous belly that sorta wobbled when she walked like unsupported breasts, would she be expected to wear a girdle or else be deemed inappropriate? And why do women's breasts need to be artificially held high and outward, which arguably makes the shape of them much MORE obvious, to be acceptable in public? She can't just exist the way she is? I feel this same way about making men shave in dress codes though... I don't think employers should be able to demand you to modify your body to keep a job you've been hired for if you're perfectly qualified otherwise.
I like the way you worded this, especially the part about the scaffolding. I don’t know the answer. I love my bras too. Can’t imagine going in public without them. Unless I’m literally in a bikini. I wish people wouldn’t make a big deal about boobs. But I kind of understand unspoken dress code rules too. I do think jiggly bellies would look more professional if they were under control. A muffin top makes people look “not well put together.” But that also seems classist and discriminatory against someone’s size. I wish appearances didn’t matter at work.
Load More Replies... Nor should you ever be required to unless you choose to.
Load More Replies... I haven't worn a bra in 10 years. They are uncomfortable. If people stare or comment it is their problem. Why are they staring at my boobs?!
what i don't like about this story : it's covered, you can't see anything, yet everybody complains that it's too obvious. So your own premise is already wrong that it can't be seen.
Even when the breasts are fully covered, it's often possible to tell that a woman is not wearing a bra.The breasts are unsupported, so there is much more movement, in a place on the body where there is usually not much movements. The breasts may also be sitting lower on the body when a bra is not worn, depending on the size of the breasts and the age of the woman.
Load More Replies... What am I missing here? They're breasts. Every Woman (and some men) have them. She says she's covering them up, then they're covered up and appropriate. I work with guys who have big bellies peeking out of the bottom of their shirts half the day, that's exposed skin, and no one says anything...
That’s the point, no one said anything when there wasn’t an obvious issue. For several people to find issue, to voice a subject we’d all much rather either not bother about, or not confront, I surely think there is more being revealed than the op cares to acknowledge. I highly doubt anyone would really be paying that much attention unless it was ‘in their face’. And yes, while we shouldn’t overtly sexualise, it’s not prudish to not want what are socially inferred ‘intimate areas’ on show in a way which makes others uncomfortable. I’d say the same about pronounced camel toes, penis bulges, butt cracks. It’s not sexual, and it’s not sexist.
Load More Replies... i'm 63. this issue on boobs/nipples is so old & in some ways is american attitude. seems we are the only ones who still have issues w/human body & sexuality. yes, i wore bra pre-retirement but dress code didn't have demand for it. what it did have was demand for nylons/pantyhose which i took umbrage w/due to working in 100+ degrees as did all the other women but no one would say anything. finally went to big boss & asked for increase in pay for health related costs. he asked for specifics & i told him for rash/infections related to wearing items that caused them. he was clueless to the problems it caused. shortly afterwards memo came out stating when temps over 80 nylons didn't have to be required. small victory created from open mind & education.
F*ck em, don't wear it. I don't. And if anyone ever made any suggestions about my clothes I would be very glad to oblige them with a very loud comment that they should also find some time to do the work they are paid to do instead of spending too much time staring at my chest.
As a guy, if anybody is looking at a woman’s chest for that long as to notice, they’re creepy.
Load More Replies... First, this is a common problem for big breasted women who wear a bra or not. A friend of mine was questioned as to whether or not she was wearing one. She was offended. Especially since she did have one on, because it was part of the dress code, yet none of those same managers questioned the petite girls who obviously weren't wearing a bra because their nipples would be standing out like coat hangers when the wind got chilly. Second, if she wants to get past the Bras requirement, but still be comfortable, might I suggest lounge bras that are made from T-Shirt material. They give you some support, but aren't uncomfortable.
Or even one of those tight tank tops. Or a sports bra.
Load More Replies... While what's going on inside her shirt is her business, she's not going to last at that company without getting her tatas under control. She was told by four different people (including her boss) in two days that they find her clothing choices unprofessional. I'm sympathetic- I have a large chest and wearing bras is a special kind of torture. But work is work. You think men enjoy wearing neckties?
Not gonna lie, I'm just jealous that's she's large chested and doesn't have enormous back pain going braless.
I was thinking the same thing. I wear some bras for the back support, not the boob support!
Load More Replies... Also, for larger breasted women, the right size bra can provide support - and take the strain off your back, so there's that too (not a professional, but I've heard so from some large breasted women) After a car accident, where my chest hit the steering wheel, mine were bruised badly, and my sternum was hurt as well - and a sports bra was all I could wear for some time, because it relieved the pressure of the weight of my breastesses.
I wonder how the narrative would change it were a well endowed guy who was wearing linen trousers with no underwear.
Breast are not genatalia and the fact that they are considered the same by many is part of the over sexualization of women.
Load More Replies... Why are people afraid of women’s breasts? On movies and tv shows it is fine for violence to be shown and blood but as soon as a woman’s bare breasts are shown people freak out.
Only in America. Most other countries are the opposite. In many European countries you might see a nude woman (waste up) in a TV commercial for a shower gel or something like that. It isn't common, but it happens. Violence on the other hand will cause people to freak out.
Load More Replies... The thing is that if she was covered up that well and people STILL noticed that she was not wearing a bra, then she is, sadly, exactly that type who better wears one. She herself admits that she has big breasts. In that case is really just better to dress modestly, dress code or no. Life is unfair but I am really glad that for some people this is the biggest problems of their lives.
As an old school male I'm honestly 100% ok with women not wearing bras. Go ahead and vote me down for my opinion if that makes your life happier.
I don’t think this should be downvoted and I’m a woman. I think it’s more what I would expect. The majority of straight men like to see boobs, whenever they can. Seems natural to me. It’s people who keep telling her to wear a bra that are weird. Of course YOU like it, B. You like boobs. It blows my mind that there are men who like women / boobs who would tell her to cover up actually lol
Load More Replies... My wife had a fellow student (long time ago) who, I kid you not, moved to here (Germany) from USA after her semester abroad because she was so thrilled that she do not need to wear bra.
The answer probably depends on breast size (since that's a big factor in how noticeable it is), but if several people noticed your lack of bra while you were wearing a sweater, it's obviously pretty noticeable. But whether you're TA or not, if you want to continue working there, wear the bra.
There are guys who have men boobs bigger than my boobs. Should they wear a bra too?
Men's 'breasts' are not sexual... women's breasts are. Disagree with me????? Turn on your TV, open a magazine, scroll through tiktok, or open a millenials FB page to see that 90% of women have photos of themselves in a bikini
Load More Replies... Bras were invented to enhance a woman's body without the need for a corset and to make the cleavage more visible. These days you could say that a bra for large breasted women offers more support, but in this case the OP clearly feels more comfortable without. I am surprised by these comments. This is her body. She is not going into work wearing a little crop top, or a low-cut blouse. She is remaining covered but refusing to wear something that would make her large breasts look even bigger (which a bra would as it pushes up the breasts). The year is 2021. Not 1921. This is like the high heels debate - some women have been threatened with the sack for daring to wear flats instead of heels. High heels elongate the legs and make a women's shape more attractive apparently. Once again it's all about how women look and not how they perform. OP, if your performance is good then ask for a meeting with your manager. Don't listen to comments on the internet.
SOME bras were made for that....the sports bra was made in the 70s/80s by women who wanted to move freely while running and doing sports. They make your boobs look smaller, and are made to increase your performance. It's her body, but no one is asking her to change her body, only her dress. No shoes, no bra, no service
Load More Replies... I think maybe there might be a little "I wish I was that brave to go braless" going on? Who knows? I do find it funny as a gay guy that other women are offended by this ladies breasts. Where's the comradarie? The Women empowerment sentiment? Her body, her choice? I thought it was. Unless another woman is offended?
I'm a bit torn. I don't usually wear a bra, even to work or even if my nipples show (if its cold) because i believe breasts isnt sexual in a non sexual context (and i have small breasts so i dont have the need for support). That being said: at work you need to follow their dress code. If they want you to wear a bra you wear a bra. Its "their" place and not your own. Its not the right place to make a statement.
But it is not dress code, she said there wasn't one.
Load More Replies... 1. She should probably wear a bra at work but if she really doesn't want to, whatevs if no skin is showing and she isn't tucking in her shirt under her boobs. 2. Her workplace should have consulted HR first. What kind of underwear she is or is not wearing is none of their business. I have a rule for dressing professionally: I should not be able to describe your underwear. I've worked in elementary schools and child care and I've seen way too much of my coworkers but no one said a word to them. I, however, got complaints because my breasts are big. Not being shown, just that they existed.
Butt cracks are seen a LOT. Breasts, too, from crouching and leaning. I only said anything- quietly- to staff for chronic butt crack showings. I had a coworker with large boobs and she had them showing because she wore low cut shirts. They were held in and not exposed, nobody had an issue-not our boss, no parents, no kids. But her buttcrack was always out. I didnt say anything to her. I have seen things exposed bent over and I just turn away. Not my business. Hygeine is key - we had a male staff with cognitive impairments so he had no idea he smelled, his gut hung out, buttcrack was always exposed. We all had to discuss with him his pants situation. It wasn't a crouching peep show for him, but a 24|7 coin slot.
Load More Replies... That's the trick, however. If nobody is staring at your breasts due to their size, the swaying and movement is going to draw attention to them. As a hetero guy, I'd be lying if I said that my eyes are not drawn to breast movement. I don't mean the swiveling head, "AAA-OOOOGA," eyes popping out 3 feet kind of attention. More times than not I don't even look! (A Herculean effort!) But an awareness was raised. (Note to self: Do NOT make "raised awareness" joke! You're trying to be serious for once!). The motion of breasts is something most men are particularly attuned to, whether we like it or not. I realize that I am sexualizing women's breasts with this post, but it's to make a long-winded point. As some of the commenters here have said, wearing a bra holds them in place, is more comfortable and they're not swaying around. And in my first-hand experience, that doesn't steal my attention as much as free-swaying breasts, large or small, however covered. That's a Catch 32DD.
Load More Replies... I feel like all of the comparisons between a man's visible penis and a woman's breasts are comparing apples and oranges for a number of reasons. If we are going to make comparisons We should be comparing the breasts of women with a man with a large chest (weather the chest is muscle or not). The fact is that if the shape of a man's chest, or even his nipples, are clearly visible they are not asked to cover them or "restrain" them. People have also been arguing that women derive sexual pleasure from their breasts and nipples which makes them a sexual organ, but the fact is many men also derive sexual pleasure from their nipples, it's just not as widely accepted. This makes a woman's breasts and a mans chest even more similar than many people like to acknowledge.
It’s not biologically comparable, it’s socially comparable. Butt crack, heaving boobs, penis bulges, camel toes, nipples of both sexes, testicles....unwanted in the workplace. Get em out all you like in your social life.
Load More Replies... I have to be honest, I don't really think anyone is in the wrong here, but she might still want to wear a bra for the sake of her own career. Obviously, breasts should be normalized, but any body part that's super noticeable under clothing (guy's nipples/moobs included honestly, it's sort of strange to see ) is bound to make people a bit uncomfortable. And in this case, this person really might want keep the peace with her coworkers and boss if this is a new job- I'd rather have a steady job and have to wear an annoying bra than be jobless but bra-free.
I do not wear underwear. I stopped in my teens. I hate it. However, I have never gone to work without it. I agree with the etiquette comment. Be aware of your surroundings. Whether or not you think people notice, they do. Same as if someone has their underwear or thong showing way above their pants. Please. Don't do that.
Wearing a bra is also good for your boobs. It takes the strain off of tendons and ligaments that hold them up. Prevents droopage. Prevents back pain. Bras are for support. Who ever complains about seeing the shape of your boobs is an idiot, but you should wear one for proper support.
They don't have ANY business knowing. She does not have to say anything past "Thank you for your concern." If they are distracted that is THEIR problem, not hers. She can make a complaint about it. it means they are looking and are paying attention. She does not control their thoughts. For all they know she has a medical reason.
I think the author is downplaying it, if two strangers have said they can notice it then it must be pretty visible. In a professional environment she should just wear it. same if a man is heavily endowed & was wearing very tight trousers all the time because he liked it I’d expect the same. It’s basic etiquette. One time I was wearing a bra but it was one of those non wire ones & you could see my nipples through the pink top I was wearing. It wasn’t intentional & no one said it to me but I noticed when I was in the bathroom & saw myself in the mirror. I had to take pieces of tissue & pad then between my skin & the bra to conceal it as I was mortified.
How would you feel if a male co-worker was wearing close-fitting lycra that clearly outlined his genitals? They are covered. The outfit might be appropriate in other contexts, such as cycling. *He* doesn't consider this a problem - he doesn't mean anything sexual by it, and says he feels most comfortable dressed this way. He points out that penises aren't just for having sex with - they are also used for urination, a basic bodily need, and he doesn't see why you are constantly sexualising them. It isn't explicitly forbidden by the dress code. Does this make it acceptable business attire? Breasts are sexual signals as well as being used for breast-feeding. They are sexual for far more of your life than you spend breastfeeding, so unless you are lactating, put them away. Find a more comfortable bra - try a sports bra, or a compression top. This is not your home.
Screw a Sports bra. Every one I've ever tried feels like my tits are in a vice. In this day and age of miraculous inventions, you think someone could come up with a bra that's supportive and comfortable without using wire or spandex that strangles the crap out a woman's chest. And why does everything have to be lacy...?
Load More Replies... First thing I do when I come home is take off my bra. But I feel it's professional attire at work. I went without bra for a few days (because of a fresh tattoo) and felt so uncomfortable, even though nobody said/saw a thing.
She NTA, but, if she has been approached about it, then she should wear one. We are only getting her side of the story here, so of course she going to say that it wasn't noticeable. People are especially going to notice if her breasts are large. We can complain all we want about bras, but the fact is, it's standard practice, just as much as close toed shoes.
She has large breasts and they move a lot with simple movement. I doubt it's just the shape, it's likely the movement that is making people uncomfortable.
By that logic people with large bellies should wear girdles to stop those moving around too, in case it makes people uncomfortable.
Load More Replies... It's not an easy discussion to have with someone, about something that is so personal. If that many people came up to her to say it, it's blatantly obvious that she is not wearing one. I hate bras, so I get not wanting to wear one.. but.. apparently, this office feels you need to detain the puppies.
LOL, detain the puppies. "Ma'am, do you know why I pulled you over? Your breasts were exceeding the speed limit in this office."
Load More Replies... I wouldn't want a guy to come to the office in pants so tight you could see the outline of his penis. People don't want to see other peoples outlines and bodies at work. There is a certain way to dress at work and in general.
If all those peoolw noticed that she doesn't wear a bra, then it is rather obvious that she isn't wearing one.
Wear a bralette or a tight tanktop underneath. Keeps everything together and it's not a bra.
A good sports bra wouldn't be as uncomfortable as a regular bra, especially if you're bigger breasted
Unrelated to this, but I went to a wedding where the maid of honor apparently thought that her small breasts meant that she didn't need to wear a bra. And under normal circumstances she would have been right. But her light silk top coupled with the frigid air conditioning in the church meant that her decision to go braless was obvious to everyone and she was the talk of the wedding.
This is akin to a well endowed man wearing very tight fitting trousers. Can he wear them at the office? Yes. Should he? Most probably not, because while it's all natural and fine, it's not appropriate. A big chested lady should be mindful that it is not very professional either. It's not about sexualising the woman or the man, it's just not the place for it. That's my take on it anyway.
I mean I do agree she has to wear a bra. It is standard etiquette. If I wear jeans that are tight enough where you can see my penis then tell me. I will change pants. This is almost the same thing with the bra. If four people tell you "hey we can kinda see your nipples" then wear a bra. I get its uncomfortable, but if you want to keep this job your gonna have to wear a bra.
Definitely not the asshole. If there's nothing in the employee handbook it's their problem. The supervisor is a coward. He needs to tell you himself if he thinks it's a problem.
The A cup comment bothered me. I am an A cup and my nipples are very noticeable if not wearing a bra. Doesnt matter the size, all boobs are different for different reasons.
I don’t think they were talking about nips. They were talking about the size, shape, jiggling and structure of her boobs.
Load More Replies... I think I need photographic evidence to correctly judge this situation.
Whether we like it or not, at a workplace there is a dresscode even if it's unofficial! I also feel a lot more comfortable without a bra, but I'm wearing at work! I also feel more comfortable with my pijamas, but I don't wear them at work! Would it be better if people wouldn't see a woman's breast as a scandal? Of course! But we are not there yet and if too many people told you so, then it means that something is obvious then! Learn which fights are worth to give and don't lose your job over a bra! You can always wear an athletic one which is more comfortable!
How can they tell she's not wearing a bra if her nipples aren't showing? If it's that obvious she could just wear and under shirt or a padded tank, I don't think it's an unreasonable request to wear a bra at work in this society. I do wish that it wasn't such an issue but the reality is what it is.
I've no idea how a grown person who works in the office environment can't understand the rules of dress codes. Even if the dress code is barely nonexistent, a bra is necessary just like it's necessary for males to wear a t-shirt or a tank top under their shirt so that the body is not seen by others. You come to the office to work, and it's your responsibility to let others work. The visible shape of breasts can be distracting to both men and women, just like body lines or nipples on the male body can be distracting - thus the undergarments. Wanna ditch the bras? Work remotely. BTW, I'm not wearing bras for like 3 years now. And i'm a freelancer so i work at home. Yet, if i'm to attend some work-related event or a meeting with clients or colleagues - i'm most likely wearing a soft bralette that's comfortable for me and covers my breasts.
This sounds like an episode of Seinfeld. The Caddy. Anyone remember that one? Elaine can't stand that an old high school frenemy doesn't wear a bra, so she gifts her one as a birthday present, but her friend thinks it's a top so she wears that and nothing over it, and it causes Jerry and Kramer to crash George's car.
We shouldn't have to tell grown adults how to dress for the workplace, as there is and has always been a code (sometimes written, sometimes unwritten) as to what is appropriate in particular types of work environments, but there's always someone who feels like it doesn't apply to them and pushes the boundaries. Regardless of how she feels about bras or how relaxed her last job was, she is on this company's clock and has to conform to their standards or else choose not to work there. And whether boobs are natural and shouldn't be sexualized is not the point here. Why bother to cover your buttcheeks? Or your belly button? Yet people just know you are supposed to do it in a professional environment.
If your girls are galloping, drooping past your belly button, or reaching out to touch someone for a beastfeeding session, flip outward when you bend, or wag like a dogs tail when you walk... You ARE the Asshole. It is inappropriate in a workplace. Have some sensibilities.
If your work does not have a dress code then it's not against the rules. However, against the rules or not, if enough people are bothered by it you might want to switch jobs or wear one. It's up to you.
Yeah that's weird to go braless to your job. it is a professional setting and you need to be professional, especially at a new job. Her previous job the workers probably made jokes behind her back about it. If people are saying things then it was very noticeable, and they can definitely tell then it is a problem. There are very comfortable bras out there, sports bras even, smarten up
I think it’s time to invest in a good bra, see if that may make it more comfortable for her. You can tell a good bra from a bad one usually like this: if you are constantly aware you are wearing one, it’s a bad one. This is kinda in line with all the other women who say the first thing they do when coming home is taking their bras off. I felt like that too when all I had were cheap bras that didn‘t fit properly. It makes such a difference.
She doesn't have to wear a bra per se, but clearly, her coworkers have an issue with it and aren't comfortable, could she not just wear a camisole? I feel like this is a stupid thing to argue over because the solution seems clear, just find something that covers them a litle more.
That’s really reasonable to me. Even though I don’t think she should be forced to do anything, it seems like a fair compromise and a more reasonable request. Like you don’t have to wear a bra but just quell the titties a little.
Load More Replies... I haven't worn a bra regularly in about 5 or 6 years. 90% of my clothing you can't tell, for the 10% you can I put on a bra. Here is the thing, bras are designed to make your breast look more appealing...so you are saying we have to sexually enhance our bodies and change the natural shape? It is a hill I am willing to die on to be honest. I would fight it and if they fired me I would try fighting that too in court for discrimination. Probably would not win a lawsuit in court, but I think it is an important conversation to have about the natural shape of women's bodies not being seen as professional. Bras are unnecessary, uncomfortable, can cause weaker muscles, and not standard globally. Yes it is standard now but speaking out can change that. I have small breast, you could never tell if I am wearing a bra or not in most clothing, but I don't feel like it is okay for me to not wear a bra and not okay for other women because they have larger breast.
If a man has a huge nipple and just wear a thin fabric which obviously the nipple can poke through, your eyes will definitely go down in his chest. Inevitably. And in your head, you will also say, why don't this man wear a thick shirt or double shirt or anything to cover his breast?
But would you complain about it him, HR or the boss?
Load More Replies... I also disagree with the overall sexualization of women's breasts, when they are covered with clothing. She said her nipples weren't visible, but I have a hard time imagining how anyone would know she's not wearing a bra without some sort of nipple shape being visible. So while I do agree with the idea that women should not have to wear a bra if their shirt is not sheer or see through, I don't think that culturally or societally we are there yet, especially in a professional setting. I think a similar argument could potentially be made about a man choosing to wear extremely tight fitting pants, and having his bulge super visible. Like on the one hand, people should be able to wear what makes them comfortable, right? But on the other hand, people are going to notice and sexualize something of that nature because it is outside of the general "comfort zone" in terms of societal and cultural norms.
question is would OP feel the same way if a man was noticeably NOT wearing underwear? Something to think about.
It's completely bonkers her colleagues are complaining to her about this, if her breasts are covered then it's no one's business of she's wearing a bra or not. I don't wear a bra half the time and no one has ever made a comment about it. Bralettes are a good alternative if her colleagues continue being a-holes tho.
I have severe backpain from wearing bras. Paid lots of money to different professionals, even one recommended by Oprah to get me a fitted bra that doesnt hurt. Doesn't work.All bras caused the weight to be shifted to a different area of the body causing tension. I CANNOT wear a bra. I am sorry but your temporary visual discomfort of looking at me, vs. the pain that a bra causes me is not a fair expectation. I'll go get a doctors note if thats what you really want, but F**K bras and the expectation we need to wear one. Do men need to wear jock straps at work?
I would very much like to know what would happen if she answered that she is wearing one. Or if she were to wear one so comfortable as to give no support. Would they go as far as to make her undress to verify that , or dictate her what kind of bra she is wearing ? This is such an intrusive dresscode I can't understand how they mean to enforce it. You can probably ask that nipples don't be seen, that's verifyable. But to scrutinize the shape her boobs should have under two layers of clothes, really ?
"AITA for going topless at work? My last job never said anything when I went topless, there's no dress code, I'm more comfortable that way..." Get it yet?
I would comment further if you had included a photo or two so we could see what your new office has seen. If you have large breasts or sagging breasts, one needs a bra.
Big busted, without a bra and obviously not very young? I can not see how she is not uncomfortable, they must be swinging all over the place.
@sarah was she naked? No! Were her private parts properly covered? Yes! USA claims to be so about rules. So write a dress code. In Germany you wouldn't get through with it to fire somebody just because you THINK she don't dress properly. And it's none of the business of the empkees anyway.
They're fully covered and no nipple showing. I really don't see what their issue is!
Key info that is missing is what type of company it is and does she come into contact with clients who will also be able to observe the problem. If you are doing something that makes your colleagues uncomfortable then if you are new you might want to change that behaviour. You need to learn to compromise even when you are morally right. Dictating what people wear is pretty weird unless it is a strict dress code like in a hotel or a law firm. I used to work in an office where a guy wore a suit and sandals in the summer, I don't know which company he worked for but he always made me laugh when I saw him.
Will probably be downvoted too. This is such a unnecessary age old debate. Why the fear of seeing the outline of the bits. It’s sad that most people think we need to conform to this old standard just because it’s an ‘unspoken rule’... i see men sweating out of their shirts daily in southeast asia office but aint nobody tells them to cover up. No they’re not wearing another layer inside.
This story reminds me of one of my daughter's 9th grade teachers on Meet the Teacher Night. The young, first-year female teacher was dressed professionally except for her bra - I could see her nipples through her dress. My daughter's class was a small one with 1-2 girls and 13 boys. Thirteen 14-15 year old boys. For some reason, this teacher couldn't manage the behavior behavior
Tell them you are wearing one. Or wear a bralette, "unbra", camisole, pasties.... but you don't know why they are so... boob focused at this new job.
Just say that you are. When they ask for proof, go to HR and tell them is coworker is demanding to see your underwear.
No. It is completely inappropriate for people to discuss your body, especially at work. If you do not want to wear a bra, that is your decision. As long as you are not wearing revealing clothing or see through clothing, it is fine. People need to quit shaming women and quit shaming women's boobs. Especially other women.
"My face is up here." "Why are you looking at my boobs, anyway?" What shape, dimensions, or height should boobs be? Honestly, your co-workers need a life!
Screw that, when I came back from mat leave, most of 2020, I have not worn a bra since I returned to work. If a guy wears tight pants where you can see the outline of his little solider, why can't we women/and men with breasts, go without a bra?? Bras are not typically listed as office attire, I feel like your company really has no say on your undergarments or lack thereof. Unspoken etiquette...really?? How about the etiquette on not commenting on your coworkers attire, as that can be seen as workplace harassment.
Seems there's a bit of internalised misogyny going on in that office... This is like that City firm that got sued because they told women they *must* wear high heels in the office. Are there going to be mandatory underwear checks? Should professional attire include thongs or camiknickers? I always wear a bra out of the house but it wouldn't bother me in the slightest if someone else didn't.
The fact that it's at your job - is why you should respect their request. If it was at a mall, or other public space, ignoring their opinion is fine. You can dress as you wish out of work, but if it's something your manager has raised as a serious issue, have respect.
What about respecting her? They should mind their own business unless she's shoving her boobs in everyone's face all day.
Load More Replies... I wonder if men didn't wear clean or any underpants if they would go through this?
Wow. This makes me want to NOT wear a bra. It is never spelled out in any dress codes, and men are not required to put elastic around their wiener so you can't see it. This is ABSURD that she should be required to do this. What's next will we REQUIRE overweight people to wear shapewear because its unprofessional to have rolls?
Ask them why they are looking at your boobs and if you should report them to HR for sexual misconduct and harassment
I don’t mean any offense, but I think I would wear a bra for just my own sake. The fact that both male and female coworkers were even telling me to wear a bra would make me feel uncomfortable enough to wear one.. or maybe even quit, because who likes a job where you get judged by the way you dress? No one ever tells men to cover up their bellies or visible tops, but women get treated like this in specific workplaces... it’s really absurd.
I don’t see how that’s rude at all. It’s just your opinion. I honestly don’t know what I would do. I always always always wear a bra. I can’t even sleep comfortably without one. It just feels too exposed and they move around too much and I end up feeling cold.
Load More Replies... She's been bra-less for 2 years. I'm assuming she's a professional and knows that there are things called 'dress codes' and she knows how to navigate the world at large with the body she was born with or crafted out of sugar and spice and everything nice. She went to the job interviews with no bra. She went to all of her interviews with no bra. At this company and other companies and got multiple offers, sans brassiere. It has been a non-issue for such a long time that it is a surprise when strangers call her out on it. NTA. But as a precaution, temporarily wear one until you can read the office correctly and then burn it when you get your confidence back. If the place is that toxic and it's testing you for weakness? Get out as soon as possible.
If she wore a bra, they'd still be able to see the shape of her breasts. They'd just be slightly higher and more together.
Are you sure shirts are not see through? You def should not have to wear one if nothing is showing. I mean I guess if you have large breast it will always be visible that you are not wearing a bra. Ultimately, whether or not you are a jerk is irrelevant. You are going against social code( regardless of how stupid) you have to decide if you are ready to pick the fight. This is a problem it is not ok for them to even say anything unless you are showing your breast like literally. People go without underwear and those with small breast get away with no bras all the time. I will tell you what I tell my daughter you can be different than what society deems acceptable and fight for yourself and future generations or you can conform. Fighting is harder and it means you will be hurt in some way. The compensation you may receive for a lawsuit will be satisfying in a way and disappointing in others. There is obviously a need for change and this could be a catalyst. Whatever you decide is ok
Of course they cant tell you what to do but it is indeed a new job and you are the newbee. Sorry for being lame, but unfortunately this one for me is on a case by case basis. Some people, despite who and how they are, in this kind of situation 1. could look more vulgare than others 2. That fact that you are a software engineer entails there are more men than woman so are distractiing to the business (i was told not wear perfume) 3. They will make you feel unconfortable until the inévitable. Its still a mans world with woman who still defend it
This one is ridiculously simple, I can't see why anyone would think otherwise. When you are employed by a company, you are a representative of that company and your appearance should reflect that during your working hours. This is not even about bras! My wife has worn a bra a grand total of 3 times in her entire life. If you had to do business with another company and saw some presented in the way you are, would you be ok with it? If you feel that your presentation is a suitable one for work then it is acceptable.
Interesting discussion! Many valid points made that I hadn't consider before - let alone even thought about. I have always just worn a bra outside of the house. Thinking about it now, I guess I do it because that's what is expected and is deemed appropriate.
How about RESPECTING your colleagues and not pushing your dangling big tits into their faces with the feminist warcry "this is my body!" It is NOT your home. And as long as it is perfectly acceptable and intelligent NOT to go in a swimsuit to work or men parading around in trunks of wearing flipflops, you really should adult up and know how to dress in an appropriate way. If your body is covered by several layers and 4 people in 2 days told you to cover your teats then it means that yeah, your udders are HUGE and nobody wants to see them. Now you have two choices: you either flip out and leave or suck it up and get some comfortable sport bra. I can't believe that adult, intelligent people have no idea about how to dress properly at a workplace.
How them respecting her by minding their own business.
Load More Replies... Who decided that women need to restrict their boobs for other people's comfort? Bras are uncomfortable and this woman isn't nude or anything. Stop staring at her boobs and it won't bother you.
Funny how all the men in these comments are in favor of women going braless, and trying desperately to reframe it as sexist to insist she wear a bra at work. I call bullshit on each and every one of you pervs. Because all you would do is ogle her, sexualize every single thing she did, make excuses for her to walk by you, and create scenarios where you brush up against her. Then get together with the other guys and talk about what you’d like to do to her (snowball’s chance in hell of it ever happening, btw). Tell you what; you keep your creepy comments to yourselves, and I won’t need to call you out for them. Also in future, don’t try to hide your puerile fascination with breasts under the guise of being against sexism, sexualization, or objectification. We see right through you, and can tell those are things you are very guilty of. Because you’re not as clever at hiding it as you evidently think you are.
Wait, what? Why are they telling her to wear a bra? Do me with large pecs need to wear a bra? Bras are not compulsory! It's crazy to say that women must wear a bra, boobs are part of our bodies, stop treating them like sexulised objects.
Go on tiktok for 2 minutes and THEN tell me that it's because of men that women are being glorified into sex objects. It's WOMEN who are smothering the entire digital world with their smut, but you call me out on this????
Load More Replies... Find a large husky male in the office who's chest is also without a bra an state that if you have to, then males should too. You could just put a camisole on as an under shirt an then daily clothing choices. I have large breasts too but I bra them because they otherwise get in my way. Those people should have just gone to hr an made their issue known. Albeit they did mention to you they had an issue an it could also be distracting male co-workers too. If you still choice not to and don't like the comments maybe find a different job because their views won't change if so many in so few days are talking about it and also to you directly.
Most of the things you mentioned that women do are probably not mandated by the business, depending on the job. They choose to go to those lengths to get ready. Yes, there are societal "expectations," but you're not forced to do all that. As a guy, I appreciate when they do, but I don't look down on or criticize women who don't, if only for the simple reason that I wouldn't want to go to all that trouble to get ready every day.
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