Woman Doesn’t Wear A Bra At Work Despite Her Coworkers Complaining, Asks If She’s Being A Jerk
A new job brings a lot of uncertainty. After all, we encounter new people, a new environment and a new set of responsibilities. There’s a lot to do to set yourself up for success. But before Reddit user throwawayAITA92848 had the chance to get organized and meet the team, she got herself into a tricky situation.
You see, throwawayAITA92848 doesn’t wear bras. She doesn’t like them. The woman didn’t wear one for her last job and she didn’t put one on for her first days at the new office as well. However, throwawayAITA92848 has already received negative comments from her colleagues and now she doesn’t know what to do. So she turned to Reddit, asking “[Am I the jerk] for not wearing a bra to work?” and described the entire ordeal, hoping people would give her useful advice. Here’s what she wrote.
Image credits: Karolina Grabowska (not the actual photo)
Image credits: throwawayAITA92848
The woman chose this particular company because it made a really good impression on her. “I only got a job offer from two companies, and this one offered way more money for a software engineering job than I expected, so I took it,” throwawayAITA92848 told Bored Panda.
She also said that her male colleagues wear mostly t-shirts and shirts with jeans and pants. “My female colleagues dress casually but you can say that women working on my project are more conservative than others.”
Tan France, a British-Pakistani-American fashion designer, television personality, and author, said that business casual doesn’t necessarily mean casual. “What it actually means is that you don’t have to wear a suit and tie,” he explained. “Business casual workwear usually includes a collared shirt (button-up or polo shirt) or sweater on top, with slacks, khakis, chinos, or a pencil skirt on the bottom. You may also wish to add a blazer or sport coat, but you don’t necessarily need a custom-tailored suit jacket. Shoes should be closed-toe and professional, whether you choose boots, heels, flats, loafers, mules, or oxfords. Business casual is a good way to dress if you’re unsure of what kind of environment you’re walking into since it falls somewhere between business professional and casual.”
A casual office dress code is even less restrictive than business casual, but Tan France highlighted that doesn’t mean people should dress as casually as you would outside of work. “This type of work attire is common in creative industries and on casual Fridays at more formal workplaces. To maintain a professional look while wearing casual clothing, look for button-downs, blouses, and T-shirts in solid colors and dark-wash or black denim free from rips and holes. Although clean sneakers may be okay, stick to closed-toe shoes, and always avoid flip-flops,” he said.
If someone is not sure which level is most appropriate for their work environment, Sylvie di Giusto, founder of Executive Image Consulting, told Business Insider that the basic rule of thumb is “the more you deal with a client’s money, the more traditional and conservative you should be dressed.”
In general, that means that people in finance, law, and accounting, for instance, should stick to traditional business attire, and those in creative industries, like entertainment and advertising, can dress more flexibly within the casual levels.
If it were to boil down to throwawayAITA92848 having to make a decision between her job and wearing a bra, however, she said she would go with the former. “I would choose my job, obviously, I need to survive.”
Here’s what people think of the situation
If something is obvious enough for so many people to be able to even tell you’re not wearing a bra....how would they know?.....then there is something amiss with your attire. Completely against the unnecessary sexualisation of the female body (or men’s for that matter) or clothes censorship btw but something is clearly making others uncomfortable enough to notice, and flag.
Why are people afraid of women’s breasts?
I’m not afraid of men’s penises but if I was presented with a tight clad penis bulge walking up to my desk at eye level I’d find it offputting tbh
It doesn''t have to be fear. It can just be..." I don''t want to see that.""
@lenka - this is a social etiquette issue, not a biology lesson. Comparing penises to breasts is perfectly appropriate.
Why are people comparing boobs to penises? They're completely different body parts: placed on different positions on one's body, serving completely different functions and releasing completely different fluids. I wear a bra because I need it, but in this case, it shouldn't be anyone's business what she is or isn't wearing underneath her clothes. Dress code only makes sense if your role includes face-to-face meeting with customers or partners. Or, in case you're handling physically dangerous components or tasks, you need a uniform/protective gear. Full stop.
@lenka, @Daria B since vaginas don't usually protrude as to possibly be offensive (not even getting into the cameltoe thing), breast to penis is the most sensible comparison here.
@Lis If we want to compare penises then we should be comparing vaginas with penises. Not breasts.
Something I've pondered for a while. In the US, the sexualization of women's bodies is everywhere. It's in TV shows and in thousands of ads. Breasts, especially, are used to draw the eye (read: men's eyes) to those ads. Young boys are exposed to these from the first time they can focus their eyes on print or TV. They grow up into men where "titties" are sexy. When these same men can't keep their eyes off of a women who is breastfeeding, or they make sexual comments about it, we all act offended and surprised. The sexualization of breasts is all they've ever known. Society cannot have it both ways -- we cannot create an entire culture where breasts are very specifically used for sexual titillation then chastise men when they see breasts as sexual.
Because they can't read r's
Why are people staring at her rather than doing their jobs? I rarely even realize when someone dyes their hair.
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Maybe they are afraid of a bust in the mouth.
@lenka as said below, the areas we choose to associate as ‘intimate’ are all comparable in this instance, if it makes several other people uncomfortable, camel toes, butt cracks, breasts, penis bulges, nipples. It’s not politically sexualised, and it’s not sexist.
This is going to shock you Lis, but I so agree with you.
Also, if a place has a dress code then you have to follow it if you want to work there. Is it wrong to wear shorts? No. Can you get fired for repeatedly wearing shorts when they've said "No shorts allowed"? Yes.
@ Dizzy Falcon True, but the "unspoken etiquette" she mentions still is like an unofficial dress code. In some ways, it's a bit harder than having an official dress code since the rules are basically "what everyone communally agrees is appropriate". For an extreme example, if someone came in wearing a swimsuit, most places would say "Dress code or not, we all agree that's inappropriate". I agree that it probably feels like a bait and switch to her to have them say "no dress code" and then "but, actually, there are rules", but if everyone in that office agrees (1) bras are required and (2) they can all tell she's not wearing one, then that's what she has to do if she wants to work there.
I've never had a dress code at work that said specifically that bras were required. It's kind of an unwritten rule of workplace attire. I've never seen something like that needing to be enforced. I'm curious how a company would go about making policy? Do you require them for all women? What about women who don't have much in the way of fatty tissue on their chests? Do you require it for men or non-binary people who have more? What makes that different from requiring restraint for other bits of the body that might move about in a way the draws attention? Do you require girdles, supportive underpants?
@ A.M. Pierre Another thing about the unofficial dress code thing: Even if they don't see it as cause to fire her, it seems pretty unlikely she's going to get anywhere there if she doesn't amend her attire to match the general standards of the place. In general, that can happen with all sorts of things about dress and grooming that might not be pointed out to a person. If you're under-dressed, or a bit untidy. Maybe your facial hair isn't well groomed or you don't wear cosmetics. None of it is fair, but let's face it, a lot of people are influenced by an overall image they have of someone that doesn't just include the quality of their work. In this case, she's actually been told multiple times. If they don't fire her, her career their is probably going to stagnate. Is it fair? No. Do more conventionally attractive people get more promotions? Yes. Are people who don't follow the "unspoken etiquette" of an office often viewed as outsiders and not team players? Yes.
We would love to wear shorts in my workplace. Another big competitor allows it, most don't. Because long pants are supposed to impart a view of professionalism. I think shorts, nice ones, would put customer at ease. I don't make the rules, so, I'll live.
The place where the op works doesn't have a dress code tho
and if four got the nerve up to comment to her, trust me, 100+ others noticed and are chatting in the corners about it. As there are NO PHOTOS, and photos don't always supply all the info for a judgment, perhaps OP was wearing clothing that's thin, clingy, or tight.
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Why is it wrong to know a woman doesn’t have a bra on though? For the record I live in my bras and I think boobs tend to look too flappy without a bra. But women’s tits should be more normalized overall. Sure, people noticed. Good for them. They should notice and move on. She’s the SueEllen Mishki of her job.
I am probably going to get downvoted for this, but I believe that in this case, she is in the wrong for refusing to wear a bra. If people are approaching her about it, then it must be noticeable that she isn't wearing a bra. I don't like wearing a bra either, but I know that in the workplace I have to wear one in order to keep down problems.
But isn't that sad though? The fact that you have to wear one to keep down problems just because others have decided that even the shape of a boob through layers and layers of clothes is uncomfortable? I get it! But I wish we'd have this discussion more and ask ourselves if standards need to change. In the 70s it was considered way more normal not to wear one.
No idea why you're being downvoted and why the commebts shaming her are being upvoted. I upvoted your comment. It is a ridiculous relatively new western standard and it is sexist. This is why many women are so ashamed of their breasts. It is not these other people's business. They should not be looking and they are the ones controlling their thoughts, not her.
I agree, this is absolutely disgusting behaviour. I don't care if it is noticeable, obvious, whatever. It is her body, she should be able to wear what she wants (so long as it's appropriate for the workplace) and wearing a bra should NOT be necessary. Especially if she's covering up everything. I can't express how disgusted I am with the people shaming her and especially the people she saw irl. It is none of their damn business if she wears a bra, and they shouldn't be looking down there in the first place, noticeable or not. IGNORE IT. Don't f*****g look at a woman's breasts without her permission in the first place.
I don't think anyone should be forced to wear something they aren't comfortable with, but also keep in mind this is only her side of the story. If she really did have sweaters on that cant see anything how would people know? If multiple people are coming to her concerned, within the FIRST day, there is something else going on that isn't explained here properly.
unless you're wearing a lot of layers, it's noticeable when a woman doesn't wear a bra because of how the breasts lay on her chest. bras lift them up and give them an unnatural round and even shape like a half of a sphere.
I think she should try to find something like a camisole, I think there's a perfectly good median that both parties would accept.
That’s smart. An under tank or a leotard to keep her boobs more in place so they aren’t so visible to people who won’t mind their business. It will seem like she has on a bra and she can stay comfortable
Actually I think you are corect. It is one thing to not wear a bea during a night shift when it is not seen. But if she works in an office and poeple notice then it is on her. Maybe the others didnt say anything because they liked looking or it was an office who really didnt care.
You are SO correct ! She's just being an idiot, in my opinion. Wear a bra to the office, then take it off afterwards ! I mean, WTF !!!
Though I've always felt dressing comfortably for work should be the norm, I have to agree with you. It is frustrating that our society is not there yet but I feel we are making progress. As recent as 2 decades ago (in the 90s okay not late 1900s!), we are expected to be all formal at the workplace. These days, at least that has been toned down. Baby steps I guess.
What is wrong about boobs? It is an outline they see, and it probably is not changing much with a bra.
My guess is there's a bit of jiggling going on. She says she has larger breasts. That could mean a lot of movement. That would be evident even with a sweater or a jacket on. I do, too. Bras don't change the shape of mine much but they do stop the jiggling. Even a wireless bralette or camisole stops it. It's a natural part of what breasts do, but in many places it's still not acceptable to show that much evidence of your body doing what a body does.
I should put myself in a girdle because I have stomach fat that jiggles. Boobs are basocally fat.
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Of course you know if a woman is wearing a bra or not. But not because of coverage, she wrote she has anyway a decent size of her twins. People don't see stripes or whatever. If you wear a shirt and blazer over it how anybody could be offended by not wearing a bra. If there is no WRITTEN dresscode, or a written statement how to dress then I would show them the middlefinger and they can shove their complaint up there where the sun never shines. If all is covered then it's done. If a woman don't want to wear a bra then she dont.do you know if some guys do wear a thing under their suit.. Or nothing at all? So she dresses professionally. And according to normal standards.
And.. you'd be fired, deservedly. A business is not required to have a written dress code. Staff only need common sense, and you clearly don't have any
The only way she could possibly push back is by loudly saying, "Why are you looking at my breasts?" But even then she could get in trouble, sadly.
I'm sorry. Could someone please explain to me how her bra is anyone's business but her own.
@tuzdayschild I totally agree with you if she was in her own space or on her own time, but she is in a public space, on the clock and there have been complaints. It's etiquette. Lets say you don't like wearing clothes at home. Good for you if that's your choice. Move that into a public space and you have others to consider.
She’s not naked, She’s wearing literally layers of clothes or a sweater.
@Natalie Kudryashova I know. It was the closest example I could think of to explain that some things are fine for your private life, yet not for public. I personally don't care, but if people are complaining, it is a problem for them. Also, we don't have enough information to know...are there children that are ever present in the business she works in? That could give reason to the complaints.
At home its her business only,. At work, people can't just dress how they want. There are both rules and expectations at the office. There's also something called common sense. The fact that 4 people noticed and commented in 2 days tells you there's a lot more going on here, but people are being made uncomfortable.
PREACH
Nobody has ever told me to wear one
I agree. She is still covered. Why is it ok for her boss to make her suffocate the girls? The guys don't have to wear tighty wightys. A loose tank top with a shirt over is equivalent to men wearing boxers and pants. The Girls need to breathe!!
Pusfarm, the EEOC doesn't give a s**t what you're attracted to our your ability to control yourself. An employer *cannot* force a dress code that affects genders differently. You can downvote that all you want, but it doesn't change s**t.
@Potato Right, because men with "prominent fleshy pectorals" - aka moobs - is so hot and such a turn-on to women and gay men that nobody would get any work done. /s
Yeah but your comparison doesn''t hold up. It doesn''t matter what kind of bra she''s wearing; the problem is she isn''t wearing one. The guys don''t have to wear tighty wighties----but they should be wearing underwear and if they are not and people notice they will get into the same trouble.
I would question if they would require a male with prominent fleshy pectorals if he is required to wear a bra.
If something is obvious enough for so many people to be able to even tell you’re not wearing a bra....how would they know?.....then there is something amiss with your attire. Completely against the unnecessary sexualisation of the female body (or men’s for that matter) or clothes censorship btw but something is clearly making others uncomfortable enough to notice, and flag.
Why are people afraid of women’s breasts?
I’m not afraid of men’s penises but if I was presented with a tight clad penis bulge walking up to my desk at eye level I’d find it offputting tbh
It doesn''t have to be fear. It can just be..." I don''t want to see that.""
@lenka - this is a social etiquette issue, not a biology lesson. Comparing penises to breasts is perfectly appropriate.
Why are people comparing boobs to penises? They're completely different body parts: placed on different positions on one's body, serving completely different functions and releasing completely different fluids. I wear a bra because I need it, but in this case, it shouldn't be anyone's business what she is or isn't wearing underneath her clothes. Dress code only makes sense if your role includes face-to-face meeting with customers or partners. Or, in case you're handling physically dangerous components or tasks, you need a uniform/protective gear. Full stop.
@lenka, @Daria B since vaginas don't usually protrude as to possibly be offensive (not even getting into the cameltoe thing), breast to penis is the most sensible comparison here.
@Lis If we want to compare penises then we should be comparing vaginas with penises. Not breasts.
Something I've pondered for a while. In the US, the sexualization of women's bodies is everywhere. It's in TV shows and in thousands of ads. Breasts, especially, are used to draw the eye (read: men's eyes) to those ads. Young boys are exposed to these from the first time they can focus their eyes on print or TV. They grow up into men where "titties" are sexy. When these same men can't keep their eyes off of a women who is breastfeeding, or they make sexual comments about it, we all act offended and surprised. The sexualization of breasts is all they've ever known. Society cannot have it both ways -- we cannot create an entire culture where breasts are very specifically used for sexual titillation then chastise men when they see breasts as sexual.
Because they can't read r's
Why are people staring at her rather than doing their jobs? I rarely even realize when someone dyes their hair.
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Maybe they are afraid of a bust in the mouth.
@lenka as said below, the areas we choose to associate as ‘intimate’ are all comparable in this instance, if it makes several other people uncomfortable, camel toes, butt cracks, breasts, penis bulges, nipples. It’s not politically sexualised, and it’s not sexist.
This is going to shock you Lis, but I so agree with you.
Also, if a place has a dress code then you have to follow it if you want to work there. Is it wrong to wear shorts? No. Can you get fired for repeatedly wearing shorts when they've said "No shorts allowed"? Yes.
@ Dizzy Falcon True, but the "unspoken etiquette" she mentions still is like an unofficial dress code. In some ways, it's a bit harder than having an official dress code since the rules are basically "what everyone communally agrees is appropriate". For an extreme example, if someone came in wearing a swimsuit, most places would say "Dress code or not, we all agree that's inappropriate". I agree that it probably feels like a bait and switch to her to have them say "no dress code" and then "but, actually, there are rules", but if everyone in that office agrees (1) bras are required and (2) they can all tell she's not wearing one, then that's what she has to do if she wants to work there.
I've never had a dress code at work that said specifically that bras were required. It's kind of an unwritten rule of workplace attire. I've never seen something like that needing to be enforced. I'm curious how a company would go about making policy? Do you require them for all women? What about women who don't have much in the way of fatty tissue on their chests? Do you require it for men or non-binary people who have more? What makes that different from requiring restraint for other bits of the body that might move about in a way the draws attention? Do you require girdles, supportive underpants?
@ A.M. Pierre Another thing about the unofficial dress code thing: Even if they don't see it as cause to fire her, it seems pretty unlikely she's going to get anywhere there if she doesn't amend her attire to match the general standards of the place. In general, that can happen with all sorts of things about dress and grooming that might not be pointed out to a person. If you're under-dressed, or a bit untidy. Maybe your facial hair isn't well groomed or you don't wear cosmetics. None of it is fair, but let's face it, a lot of people are influenced by an overall image they have of someone that doesn't just include the quality of their work. In this case, she's actually been told multiple times. If they don't fire her, her career their is probably going to stagnate. Is it fair? No. Do more conventionally attractive people get more promotions? Yes. Are people who don't follow the "unspoken etiquette" of an office often viewed as outsiders and not team players? Yes.
We would love to wear shorts in my workplace. Another big competitor allows it, most don't. Because long pants are supposed to impart a view of professionalism. I think shorts, nice ones, would put customer at ease. I don't make the rules, so, I'll live.
The place where the op works doesn't have a dress code tho
and if four got the nerve up to comment to her, trust me, 100+ others noticed and are chatting in the corners about it. As there are NO PHOTOS, and photos don't always supply all the info for a judgment, perhaps OP was wearing clothing that's thin, clingy, or tight.
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Why is it wrong to know a woman doesn’t have a bra on though? For the record I live in my bras and I think boobs tend to look too flappy without a bra. But women’s tits should be more normalized overall. Sure, people noticed. Good for them. They should notice and move on. She’s the SueEllen Mishki of her job.
I am probably going to get downvoted for this, but I believe that in this case, she is in the wrong for refusing to wear a bra. If people are approaching her about it, then it must be noticeable that she isn't wearing a bra. I don't like wearing a bra either, but I know that in the workplace I have to wear one in order to keep down problems.
But isn't that sad though? The fact that you have to wear one to keep down problems just because others have decided that even the shape of a boob through layers and layers of clothes is uncomfortable? I get it! But I wish we'd have this discussion more and ask ourselves if standards need to change. In the 70s it was considered way more normal not to wear one.
No idea why you're being downvoted and why the commebts shaming her are being upvoted. I upvoted your comment. It is a ridiculous relatively new western standard and it is sexist. This is why many women are so ashamed of their breasts. It is not these other people's business. They should not be looking and they are the ones controlling their thoughts, not her.
I agree, this is absolutely disgusting behaviour. I don't care if it is noticeable, obvious, whatever. It is her body, she should be able to wear what she wants (so long as it's appropriate for the workplace) and wearing a bra should NOT be necessary. Especially if she's covering up everything. I can't express how disgusted I am with the people shaming her and especially the people she saw irl. It is none of their damn business if she wears a bra, and they shouldn't be looking down there in the first place, noticeable or not. IGNORE IT. Don't f*****g look at a woman's breasts without her permission in the first place.
I don't think anyone should be forced to wear something they aren't comfortable with, but also keep in mind this is only her side of the story. If she really did have sweaters on that cant see anything how would people know? If multiple people are coming to her concerned, within the FIRST day, there is something else going on that isn't explained here properly.
unless you're wearing a lot of layers, it's noticeable when a woman doesn't wear a bra because of how the breasts lay on her chest. bras lift them up and give them an unnatural round and even shape like a half of a sphere.
I think she should try to find something like a camisole, I think there's a perfectly good median that both parties would accept.
That’s smart. An under tank or a leotard to keep her boobs more in place so they aren’t so visible to people who won’t mind their business. It will seem like she has on a bra and she can stay comfortable
Actually I think you are corect. It is one thing to not wear a bea during a night shift when it is not seen. But if she works in an office and poeple notice then it is on her. Maybe the others didnt say anything because they liked looking or it was an office who really didnt care.
You are SO correct ! She's just being an idiot, in my opinion. Wear a bra to the office, then take it off afterwards ! I mean, WTF !!!
Though I've always felt dressing comfortably for work should be the norm, I have to agree with you. It is frustrating that our society is not there yet but I feel we are making progress. As recent as 2 decades ago (in the 90s okay not late 1900s!), we are expected to be all formal at the workplace. These days, at least that has been toned down. Baby steps I guess.
What is wrong about boobs? It is an outline they see, and it probably is not changing much with a bra.
My guess is there's a bit of jiggling going on. She says she has larger breasts. That could mean a lot of movement. That would be evident even with a sweater or a jacket on. I do, too. Bras don't change the shape of mine much but they do stop the jiggling. Even a wireless bralette or camisole stops it. It's a natural part of what breasts do, but in many places it's still not acceptable to show that much evidence of your body doing what a body does.
I should put myself in a girdle because I have stomach fat that jiggles. Boobs are basocally fat.
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Of course you know if a woman is wearing a bra or not. But not because of coverage, she wrote she has anyway a decent size of her twins. People don't see stripes or whatever. If you wear a shirt and blazer over it how anybody could be offended by not wearing a bra. If there is no WRITTEN dresscode, or a written statement how to dress then I would show them the middlefinger and they can shove their complaint up there where the sun never shines. If all is covered then it's done. If a woman don't want to wear a bra then she dont.do you know if some guys do wear a thing under their suit.. Or nothing at all? So she dresses professionally. And according to normal standards.
And.. you'd be fired, deservedly. A business is not required to have a written dress code. Staff only need common sense, and you clearly don't have any
The only way she could possibly push back is by loudly saying, "Why are you looking at my breasts?" But even then she could get in trouble, sadly.
I'm sorry. Could someone please explain to me how her bra is anyone's business but her own.
@tuzdayschild I totally agree with you if she was in her own space or on her own time, but she is in a public space, on the clock and there have been complaints. It's etiquette. Lets say you don't like wearing clothes at home. Good for you if that's your choice. Move that into a public space and you have others to consider.
She’s not naked, She’s wearing literally layers of clothes or a sweater.
@Natalie Kudryashova I know. It was the closest example I could think of to explain that some things are fine for your private life, yet not for public. I personally don't care, but if people are complaining, it is a problem for them. Also, we don't have enough information to know...are there children that are ever present in the business she works in? That could give reason to the complaints.
At home its her business only,. At work, people can't just dress how they want. There are both rules and expectations at the office. There's also something called common sense. The fact that 4 people noticed and commented in 2 days tells you there's a lot more going on here, but people are being made uncomfortable.
PREACH
Nobody has ever told me to wear one
I agree. She is still covered. Why is it ok for her boss to make her suffocate the girls? The guys don't have to wear tighty wightys. A loose tank top with a shirt over is equivalent to men wearing boxers and pants. The Girls need to breathe!!
Pusfarm, the EEOC doesn't give a s**t what you're attracted to our your ability to control yourself. An employer *cannot* force a dress code that affects genders differently. You can downvote that all you want, but it doesn't change s**t.
@Potato Right, because men with "prominent fleshy pectorals" - aka moobs - is so hot and such a turn-on to women and gay men that nobody would get any work done. /s
Yeah but your comparison doesn''t hold up. It doesn''t matter what kind of bra she''s wearing; the problem is she isn''t wearing one. The guys don''t have to wear tighty wighties----but they should be wearing underwear and if they are not and people notice they will get into the same trouble.
I would question if they would require a male with prominent fleshy pectorals if he is required to wear a bra.