Company Demands Employee Bring A Doctor’s Note To Prove They’re Sick, Regrets It When The Doctor Writes A Fake One
Company policy. Two words that can sometimes do the organization more harm than good. And this example perfectly proves it. Recently, Reddit user /u/jaxmagicman made a post on r/MaliciousCompliance, talking about the time he got food poisoning. The company /u/jaxmagicman works for requires employees to bring a doctor’s note when they’re sick and refuses to make any exceptions. Even if the worker will miss more days than they would otherwise…
Image credits: francisblack (not the actual photo)
When talking with senior managers of a large company, Liezl Groenewald from Ethics Institute heard one of them ask whether it is okay to bend the rules from time to time if it is for the greater good of the company.
“Performance-based judgment calls are managerial decisions to bend the rules because, in doing so, company or individual performance will be enhanced,” Groenewald wrote. “This is typically related to rewarding employees for good performance by making exceptions to established rules.”
“Faulty rules refer to ambiguous, out-dated or simply wrong rules in the eyes of the manager.”
Moreover, a study by the Academy of Management Executives (USA) revealed that 70% of executives bend company rules. When asked why they do so, they mentioned three rationales for rule-bending, namely performance–based judgement calls, faulty rules and socially embedded norms.
“Organisations need to build a culture where the emphasis is on following the spirit of the law rather than the letter of the law. A code of ethics should thus not be predominantly rules-based, but rather a combination of rules- and values-based.”
Here’s what people had to say about the whole situation
everyone acting like it's almost a crime while here in switzerland it's normal
Like in germany. I guess, in most european countries "social" just doesn't equal "communist" like in the USA.
Exactly. It's the same in Italy. We can get paid sick leave for 18 months in 3 years, of course providing a medical note.
I agree. The reason for the medical note is accountability. Also to encourage you to see a doctor when unwell. The fact it cost money in other countries is what is unfair. Medical notes is to prevent abuse and we all know ppl who have attendance issues and provide all sorts of excuses. Those with chronic issues and need accommodation still needs to provide a medical. People need to understand the world doesn't revolve around them and their schedule. This is to justify their absence. People are evaluated on their performance and if the country you live in had better wages and social programs in place than it wouldn't be as big of an issues. So don't blame the companies for asking, blame them for low wages, long hours, poor housing, insufficient supports, lack of work-life balance and also blame your govt for all of it.
Ellie, I could not possibly agree more with what you are saying!
Perfectly stated.
I disagree. It’s normal here in Finland too, but that doesn’t make it “okay.” Having to travel to a doctor when you’re sick is the least ideal time for getting dressed or leaving your house. You risk infecting others and prolonging your recovery. And the doctor can’t do anything if it’s just the common cold. I’m not saying I have a better solution, but having to go get a note after two days of illness is super inconvenient and unhelpful. Sure there are always those who exploit the system. But A) you can still cheat the system, particularly because occupational health physicians will almost always write what you ask them to. And B) in many cases it’s pretty easy to spot who’s faking. In fact, our HR has said that the reason they collect those notes here is in case you return to work but hadn’t really recovered (i.e. you take time off again for the same reason). That way they can have the social insurance institution (government) pay. So it’s not even used as “proof.”
It's the same for me where I work (in Canada), my employer requires a note after 3 days... To me it make's sense.
In the US it’s not as easy as in other countries. Some employers don’t pay decent wages and sick time. Others not only require doctor’s notes, they even want you to call in sick when they’re open, even if you know you’re sick well before then, then call in again several times a day while you’re out, and check your number on Caller ID to make sure you’re home. As to the note, you have to get an appointment or go to a walk-in clinic. That means getting up from your sick bed and spending anywhere from $10-$30 (Insured) up to $100+ (uninsured) for the appointment—-plus the cost of any prescriptions you may get (cost depends on your insurance if you have it, otherwise you pay full—-inflated—- price). So, for many Americans, there’s a huge financial hit (unpaid days plus cost of doctor’s appointment and prescriptions) attached to this policy. Finally, it’s demeaning to treat adults—-who know if they’re sick and how long it’ll take them to get better—-like children playing hooky.
Carol Emory those clinics are only free if you make very little. If you are stuck in the gap of not having coverage but making enough money to be above the federal poverty line you are sol.
Not sure where you are in the USA, Kathy, but in this area, there are these things called Health Departments and Free Clinics that can give you all of what you need at no cost. You may want to search your area to see if there are clinics like this in your area.
It is also normal in France and Belgium.
You guys probably have health care. Getting a doctors note for an American without health insurance is like a $150 venture. Not worth it for the uninsured.
I am ensured and my co-pay is $60 per visit so I only go if it is necessary.
I hope the Brits are reading this. It is a very crucial time for them right now.
Exactly same in Finland
Same in Bulgaria. It's both to encourage accountability and to make sure employees are in good health and not spreading viruses at the office. You also have 3 days to present your doctor's note to your employer. Seems perfectly reasonable to me. But we also have 90 days of paid sick leave (which is split between the employer and the government).
This comment has been deleted.
Everywhere I've ever worked requires a note to come back to work after missing three consecutive days. Mostly to prove you are well enough to work, and not going to infect other people.
I live in germany. That is completly normal here. But it is also normal here that you have unlimited sick leave. There are some rules, so you get a paycut after the first 6 weeks of being sick, but with one day at work the 6 weeks with full sick pay start again. Also that is enforced by law. Nothing a company can choose. If you are not living in a third world country a healthcare like that should be normal. The only downside is, you have to have proof so that idiots have it harder to scam the system that is here to save the weakest. Because of that, one day leaves are rare, cause a lot of companys want a doctors note also for the first day. But it is better vor your health to have some time for recovery. Overall I love our system after realizing how unhuman a lot of countries are in this regard. Two years before I didn't had to struggle with my 7 weeks of sick leave cause I can't work with a broken arm.
That's not quite right. The six weeks only start again if you have a NEW illness. If you've had a particular illness and you had your six weeks of fully paid leave you can't just go back for one day and the six weeks start again. In that case you'll get 'Krankengeld' instead of 'Lohnweiterzahlun'.
Why does clarifying and correcting wrong statements get downvoted? I don't get these internet people.
Correct. I only gave a rough idea without all the details. PS: I don't know, I upvoted Stevie.
The problem for worker in the U.S. is that we have no guaranteed access to healthcare, whether due to financial/health insurance issues or just access to a health care provider.
You can be sick for six weeks straight and not be replaced?
Yes, of course! Answering both questions. It is the same case (with variations according to country) in most countries in the European Union.
Yes, it doesn't make sense to penalise someone for being ill. In the UK, you'd usually only need a doc note if you're off for a week or more. My ex had cancer, and was not working at all for 9 months, and was on full pay (after a certain time off they can pay you less, which nowadays wouldn't be enough to live on, but I don't know of that being applied to anyone- instead I have heard of people who were let go after not working for a year or more, in situations which sounded a bit like they were taking the piss)
Like I said, 2017 I broke my right hand. I am right handed. I was unable to to my job for 7 weeks. Then there was christmas. after 9 weeks I got back to work. My usual desk and my boss didn't even think of replacing me because it would be illegal to fire me. And that is not something special in europe.
And you get paid!
everyone acting like it's almost a crime while here in switzerland it's normal
Like in germany. I guess, in most european countries "social" just doesn't equal "communist" like in the USA.
Exactly. It's the same in Italy. We can get paid sick leave for 18 months in 3 years, of course providing a medical note.
I agree. The reason for the medical note is accountability. Also to encourage you to see a doctor when unwell. The fact it cost money in other countries is what is unfair. Medical notes is to prevent abuse and we all know ppl who have attendance issues and provide all sorts of excuses. Those with chronic issues and need accommodation still needs to provide a medical. People need to understand the world doesn't revolve around them and their schedule. This is to justify their absence. People are evaluated on their performance and if the country you live in had better wages and social programs in place than it wouldn't be as big of an issues. So don't blame the companies for asking, blame them for low wages, long hours, poor housing, insufficient supports, lack of work-life balance and also blame your govt for all of it.
Ellie, I could not possibly agree more with what you are saying!
Perfectly stated.
I disagree. It’s normal here in Finland too, but that doesn’t make it “okay.” Having to travel to a doctor when you’re sick is the least ideal time for getting dressed or leaving your house. You risk infecting others and prolonging your recovery. And the doctor can’t do anything if it’s just the common cold. I’m not saying I have a better solution, but having to go get a note after two days of illness is super inconvenient and unhelpful. Sure there are always those who exploit the system. But A) you can still cheat the system, particularly because occupational health physicians will almost always write what you ask them to. And B) in many cases it’s pretty easy to spot who’s faking. In fact, our HR has said that the reason they collect those notes here is in case you return to work but hadn’t really recovered (i.e. you take time off again for the same reason). That way they can have the social insurance institution (government) pay. So it’s not even used as “proof.”
It's the same for me where I work (in Canada), my employer requires a note after 3 days... To me it make's sense.
In the US it’s not as easy as in other countries. Some employers don’t pay decent wages and sick time. Others not only require doctor’s notes, they even want you to call in sick when they’re open, even if you know you’re sick well before then, then call in again several times a day while you’re out, and check your number on Caller ID to make sure you’re home. As to the note, you have to get an appointment or go to a walk-in clinic. That means getting up from your sick bed and spending anywhere from $10-$30 (Insured) up to $100+ (uninsured) for the appointment—-plus the cost of any prescriptions you may get (cost depends on your insurance if you have it, otherwise you pay full—-inflated—- price). So, for many Americans, there’s a huge financial hit (unpaid days plus cost of doctor’s appointment and prescriptions) attached to this policy. Finally, it’s demeaning to treat adults—-who know if they’re sick and how long it’ll take them to get better—-like children playing hooky.
Carol Emory those clinics are only free if you make very little. If you are stuck in the gap of not having coverage but making enough money to be above the federal poverty line you are sol.
Not sure where you are in the USA, Kathy, but in this area, there are these things called Health Departments and Free Clinics that can give you all of what you need at no cost. You may want to search your area to see if there are clinics like this in your area.
It is also normal in France and Belgium.
You guys probably have health care. Getting a doctors note for an American without health insurance is like a $150 venture. Not worth it for the uninsured.
I am ensured and my co-pay is $60 per visit so I only go if it is necessary.
I hope the Brits are reading this. It is a very crucial time for them right now.
Exactly same in Finland
Same in Bulgaria. It's both to encourage accountability and to make sure employees are in good health and not spreading viruses at the office. You also have 3 days to present your doctor's note to your employer. Seems perfectly reasonable to me. But we also have 90 days of paid sick leave (which is split between the employer and the government).
This comment has been deleted.
Everywhere I've ever worked requires a note to come back to work after missing three consecutive days. Mostly to prove you are well enough to work, and not going to infect other people.
I live in germany. That is completly normal here. But it is also normal here that you have unlimited sick leave. There are some rules, so you get a paycut after the first 6 weeks of being sick, but with one day at work the 6 weeks with full sick pay start again. Also that is enforced by law. Nothing a company can choose. If you are not living in a third world country a healthcare like that should be normal. The only downside is, you have to have proof so that idiots have it harder to scam the system that is here to save the weakest. Because of that, one day leaves are rare, cause a lot of companys want a doctors note also for the first day. But it is better vor your health to have some time for recovery. Overall I love our system after realizing how unhuman a lot of countries are in this regard. Two years before I didn't had to struggle with my 7 weeks of sick leave cause I can't work with a broken arm.
That's not quite right. The six weeks only start again if you have a NEW illness. If you've had a particular illness and you had your six weeks of fully paid leave you can't just go back for one day and the six weeks start again. In that case you'll get 'Krankengeld' instead of 'Lohnweiterzahlun'.
Why does clarifying and correcting wrong statements get downvoted? I don't get these internet people.
Correct. I only gave a rough idea without all the details. PS: I don't know, I upvoted Stevie.
The problem for worker in the U.S. is that we have no guaranteed access to healthcare, whether due to financial/health insurance issues or just access to a health care provider.
You can be sick for six weeks straight and not be replaced?
Yes, of course! Answering both questions. It is the same case (with variations according to country) in most countries in the European Union.
Yes, it doesn't make sense to penalise someone for being ill. In the UK, you'd usually only need a doc note if you're off for a week or more. My ex had cancer, and was not working at all for 9 months, and was on full pay (after a certain time off they can pay you less, which nowadays wouldn't be enough to live on, but I don't know of that being applied to anyone- instead I have heard of people who were let go after not working for a year or more, in situations which sounded a bit like they were taking the piss)
Like I said, 2017 I broke my right hand. I am right handed. I was unable to to my job for 7 weeks. Then there was christmas. after 9 weeks I got back to work. My usual desk and my boss didn't even think of replacing me because it would be illegal to fire me. And that is not something special in europe.
And you get paid!