Dungeon Master Puzzled When New Vegan Player Starts Prodding For A “Cruelty-Free” World, Asks For Help Online
Whenever you hear of the iconic table-top role-playing game Dungeons and Dragons, you probably think of things like knights in shining armor or wizards atop towers shooting lightning from the skies, all set in medieval times.
But, you know what, it can be even weirder if you really want it to be: you can role-play a turtle-person who knows karate and moves like lightning because, get it? Turtles aren’t all that fast, yet… I’ll stop here.
Well, it only gets weirder from here (and the sky’s the limit) because Dungeons and Dragons allows for a lot of unorthodox decisions (all the more reason to give it a go, honestly) including things like vegan-friendly, cruelty-free campaigns because a player of yours is vegan and they asked, because, well, of course!
More Info: Original Post | Follow-Up
When you enter the world of Dungeons and Dragons, you’re not really sure what you’re gonna get because the sky’s the limit when it comes to fantasy
Image credits: Clara_Sh (not the actual image)
Well, asking for a cruelty-free vegan-friendly world is also not the limit, and this one dungeon master (DM) recently asked the internet for help on it
Image credits: u/EmotionalMacaroon169
The story goes that a new vegan player joined the table, and soon started asking the DM to alter the game world to be more ethical regarding animal treatment
Image credits: u/EmotionalMacaroon169
It wasn’t all that simple, mostly because that’s not within the traditional spirit of medieval fantasy games, but also because it would mean less engaging roleplay
Image credits: light wizzi (not the actual image)
The story goes that Redditor u/EmotionalMacaroon169 (who later became SirMeatalot, and you’ll get why in a minute) turned to the r/DnD community for some perspective on a situation he found himself in.
You see, a new player joined the adventurer ranks, but it didn’t take long for an ethical problem to arise: the player is vegan, and the way animals and other worldly creatures are treated in most Dungeons and Dragons campaigns is something that doesn’t necessarily adhere to today’s standards for animal rights.
Following one particular pig scene, the vegan player approached the dungeon master (DM) about how it’s making her uncomfortable and how it ought to be changed—after all, the DM’s in full charge of it all, they can do it.
Heh, if only it was that simple. OP argued that food-related roleplay was kinda key in the overall setting, and the group also included one player who was a chef and enjoyed all the food talk. This is besides all of the minor or major changes that would have to happen in the world’s fauna, how different societies and cultures view it, and figuring out where to draw the line. He didn’t want to exclude the vegan player, but he also had no idea how or even if he wanted to change things.
The internet, however, was all in favor of having the DM sit everyone down for session zero and talk it over because that’s the civil thing to do—nobody wanted to boot anyone from the game, after all
Image credits: u/EmotionalMacaroon169
Image credits: kathkarnowsi (not the actual image)
At this point, OP was stumped about the whole situation, and so he wanted some input from the people of Reddit. Incidentally, there was an attempt to hide it all from his players, but, this is the internet, and of course the most popular D&D subreddit will be the place where his players might also lurk. He got found very quickly and had a laugh about it in the follow-up post.
Speaking of which, it didn’t take long for OP to heed everyone’s advice and to simply sit down for another session zero—a session where everyone discusses the player characters, the setting and just coordinates things so that everyone can enjoy the game—and it turned out surprisingly well.
Many from the subreddit suggested simply talking it over, and that they did. It soon became clear how meat-based food roleplay can easily be turned into cruelty-free food talk, which is even more rewarding when the foodie at the table also gets to learn new recipes. Because learning is awesome.
But besides that, the DM found out where the line was drawn with specific examples that the vegan player provided, and even jokingly asked what her stance on cannibalism was, to which she replied “only if it’s consensual.” You can guess what sort of contingent of jokes followed.
A session zero actually happened—in fact, it went extremely well, during which everyone worked together to make cruelty-free work as much as it can with the least amount of compromise
Image credits: u/EmotionalMacaroon169
The session went so well that the team was soon joking about it, inquiring about things like cannibalism, to which the vegan player wittily responded “only if it’s consensual”
Image credits: Robertas Lisickis (not the actual photo)
Many people came back to the follow-up to highlight the importance of talking and being transparent when it comes to issues arising from the setting, the group dynamic, the DM and everything else. This is actually very applicable outside of Dungeons and Dragons too.
Sure, some did argue that it felt like a “please don’t curse” kind of situation that pushed the boundaries of political correctness, but both parties ended up handling the situation quite well, with all due respect and willing to compromise because it is what it is.
Both the original and the follow-up posts on Reddit were also followed by updates providing more context to the situation
Image credits: u/EmotionalMacaroon169
The two posts collectively garnered 18,000 upvotes, spawning quite a bit of discussion in the form of nearly 6,000 comments. You can check out the original post and the followup here and here respectively. But before you do that, be sure to roll a D20 performance check to see what kind of opinions and stories you can share about anything that you just read in the comment section below!
When did it become normal to demand that everyone around you accommodate your life choices? Sorry, but the "you can't have a cookie because I'm on a diet" way of thinking is ridiculous. This is no different from religious people demanding that everyone follow their particular religion.
True, but they worked it out well, and handled it like adults, which I think is good. Plus, the vegan player apologized, and said they overreacted.
Load More Replies...
As a Dnd who is vegetarian this person is out of control. I am fine with the players eating meat since its not real
Right?!? I’m a vegetarian and a D&D player. I would never expect my DM to get rid of a totally normal thing for the sake of my strange and delicate sensibilities! I’m glad they handled it like adults, but you do wonder how the vegan handles things like other people eating meat. And not wanting meat is very different from having trauma due to nearly drowning. Glad they handled it, but the vegan sounds very irritating. I wouldn’t want to play with her!
Load More Replies...
I love that they managed to find a compromise that works for everybody! I'm not vegan, but it seems to me that the place this particular player is coming from is one where it's the gore and abuse of animals that is triggering her. As OP pointed out, they have already had talks about how to avoid other players' triggers in-game, so while I was initially skeptical, I think it WAS reasonable to make these compromises (and the vegan also agrees she overreacted to begin with). It sounds like this is a really great group with high emotional intelligence, and I'm glad to hear how well it worked out! I love it when everybody is reasonable and kind and finds a compromise they can all enjoy.
Yes! It’s shockingly nice to hear about people resolving things thoughtfully as a group. It’s so rare in real life
Load More Replies...
While I think it's silly for the vegan to be upset about this I'm glad the comprise worked out well. Also the other players seems like they're good people. Nice and wholesome ending. Makes me smile.
It's "Dungeons" and "Dragons"! There are Dragons in it. And Dungeons. Why is she expecting it to be "cruelty free"? Maybe there's a Carebears module I haven't come across?
I don't do table top gaming but I might start if there's a carebears one
Load More Replies... I would have suggested a Douglas Adams-style 'dish of the day' creature that eagerly consented to being eaten.
I have nothing against vegans, there's vegans in my family, I often prepare vegan foods, but when they force their beliefs onto you, that's when I say "f**k off and shove a carrot up your a*s", if she was so bothered by it, why not become a DM herself and create her own cruelty free world? But what do you do, kill cabbages or something? There's always going to be some level of violence, usually against creatures/animals etc in D&D, idk what she expects, but it's not like players are going to go out there and slay the nearest animal they see... glad that it seems they came to a conclusion about this though and can just return to their fun.
Coming up with an entirely cruelty free game actually sounds like a fun challenge. Like maybe you battle cute cartoon forest creatures, and when you drop anvils on them and smash them with comedically oversized hammers, it makes them sad.
Load More Replies... 
What about DM makes Potat-ogres, tofu Ban-cheese, honey Bee-holder... not vegan enough?
Hahaha, 'cept Bee-holders ain't Vegan. Only vegetarian :(
Load More Replies... 
Her cruelty free world has never and can never exist... if I were to farm soy beans I would kill more animals to feed her than I would if I was a cattle farmer. It was completely selfish for her to demand the DM change his world for her life choices. If I like women I'm not gonna demand that the gay guy stop hitting on the orcs..I'm gonna in character shiver and go hit on the nun. Likewise she should have just practiced what she lived in character by trying to find non meat based foods or creating them in game... not demand everyone else change so she be unchallenged in her dietary choices.
I mean really people elves have a stereotype about being vegetarians in some settings. Druids have them in others. Hell If I had a vegetarian player that was never an a*s about it and just practiced what they believed I'd set out a magic item that rejected anyone that had consumed the flesh of a living creature.... or a cursed item that the curse didnt work on anyone who hadn't eaten meat.
Load More Replies...
Killing people, stealing and basically taking part in big conflict is also wrong and yet we do this during RPG sessions because it's fictional and interesting - as long as it's fiction. I totally understand avoiding traumatic triggers (like the example about nearly drowning) but this...
But this raises the question; can you eat "hellish flame boars". Or are the characters going to go hungry?
This is ridiculous. The newbie is vegan, so this online fantasy has to suddenly become a vegan world to accommodate her? I'd tell her where to go, which would be a different online fantasy world because she's kicked out of this one. Especially if I'm the creator of the world, therefore boss.
1. It wasn't online, they had snacks at the table 2. They were friends with multiple people at the table. If you were DM and just booted them like that two things will happen 1. The campaign ends entirely 2. You lose friends over the inevitable shitstorm that follows Basically it's not hard to write out animals and just ignore the issue of food for the sake of being the bigger man. I want to play again, but i havent had a group in years. I do agree that it's an unreasonable demand though
Load More Replies... Honestly this could be solved with a detailed quest that spans several weeks. The vegans player gets information that an ancient demigod, mindful of the fates of all the worlds animals and sharing the vegans values has created the components of narrow but power artifact. Once assembled and activated any creature that operates under natural circle of life, that is to say simply lives under the predator/ prey cycle who is hunted and killed will, in the moment before death, be switched with a lifeless/ soulless avatar that is nothing more than an imitation of that animal. In short, it's magic meat. It never lived nor was it alive. The real animal will be transported to an alternate world where it is never hunted and lives an easy, full life. This solves her problem and creates adventures. It also sets up future adventures and gives her a path where she can become a god/ demigod that protects animals. The nice thing about D&D is the only limit is imagination
Is there combat in this game, like most (or all?) D&D games? Isn't splitting someone's head open with a huge battle axe a form of "cruelty"? Did the vegan ever object to this?
Sounds like you didn't read, humanoid violence is fine as is fictional creatures, I'd honestly just write animals out of my world and people can buy generic "food". Pretty easy to write a campaign if those are the rules tbh. That said, the request is ridiculous but it's a hard call when everyone is friends and you risk destroying the group. DM and Co handled it maturely.
Load More Replies...
I'm stunned by the notion that a fantasy dog has more value than a fantasy dragon. Oo
I don't think it's a matter of value; I think it's a matter of being triggered. I personally have PTSD and one of my triggers is harm coming to pets. So I would probably also be a bit upset if I was playing that game and there was an abused dog! Making it a dragon makes it a little less real, creating some emotional distance, which makes it less triggering.
Load More Replies...
Doesn't surprise me. Dungeons and Dragons has become Snowflakes and Safespaces thanks to the invasion of the Twitter and Tumblr crowd Wizards has been chasing. I once trashed a campaign because some idiot thought it was appropriate to rape my character to see how cool it would be to be gay because my guy was the only straight character. He didn't think it was cool when my character gave his character neck a red smile.
I don't really see how wizards have anything to do with who joins a game
Load More Replies...
"Her fantasy escape game." HERS??? This is OP's game! If she wants a cruelty free game, she can gather up players and start her own run.
The resolution was creative. I believe that the vegan individual was being extra by even asking the DM to alter his game. It's Dungeons and Dragons... Violence, savagery, cannibalism are all part of the game. If you didn't like it, then go play somewhere else... Second, it's fantasy... Nuff said there. Third. And this point here, since we're going here in a fantasy game, is why is it bad to eat/kill earthly animals, yet it's ok to eat/kill animals from other planets? Really talking out your backside there. Another observation here, why does it always seem that some kind of contradiction exists with vegans?
Two solutions. 1) "There is a door made of meat. Do you enter? No. Bye." 2) "Wendel the Wonderful Wizard casts a spell and makes you carnivore."
They were all friends, all that would do is cause fights and end the whole campaign
Load More Replies...
This is like reading Big bang theory asking for AITA on reddit hahahahaha so funny
I understand teh vegan's reluctance to have meat discussed so freely in the game, with all the details of dissecting and eating. When I was eating vegetarian in college (mostly because I couldn't afford meat) I got to the point where looking at the meat in the grocery store made me nauseous. it could be the same way with the vegan. That said, I am super delighted at how these guys behaved like adults.
When did it become normal to demand that everyone around you accommodate your life choices? Sorry, but the "you can't have a cookie because I'm on a diet" way of thinking is ridiculous. This is no different from religious people demanding that everyone follow their particular religion.
True, but they worked it out well, and handled it like adults, which I think is good. Plus, the vegan player apologized, and said they overreacted.
Load More Replies... As a Dnd who is vegetarian this person is out of control. I am fine with the players eating meat since its not real
Right?!? I’m a vegetarian and a D&D player. I would never expect my DM to get rid of a totally normal thing for the sake of my strange and delicate sensibilities! I’m glad they handled it like adults, but you do wonder how the vegan handles things like other people eating meat. And not wanting meat is very different from having trauma due to nearly drowning. Glad they handled it, but the vegan sounds very irritating. I wouldn’t want to play with her!
Load More Replies... I love that they managed to find a compromise that works for everybody! I'm not vegan, but it seems to me that the place this particular player is coming from is one where it's the gore and abuse of animals that is triggering her. As OP pointed out, they have already had talks about how to avoid other players' triggers in-game, so while I was initially skeptical, I think it WAS reasonable to make these compromises (and the vegan also agrees she overreacted to begin with). It sounds like this is a really great group with high emotional intelligence, and I'm glad to hear how well it worked out! I love it when everybody is reasonable and kind and finds a compromise they can all enjoy.
Yes! It’s shockingly nice to hear about people resolving things thoughtfully as a group. It’s so rare in real life
Load More Replies... While I think it's silly for the vegan to be upset about this I'm glad the comprise worked out well. Also the other players seems like they're good people. Nice and wholesome ending. Makes me smile.
It's "Dungeons" and "Dragons"! There are Dragons in it. And Dungeons. Why is she expecting it to be "cruelty free"? Maybe there's a Carebears module I haven't come across?
I don't do table top gaming but I might start if there's a carebears one
Load More Replies... I would have suggested a Douglas Adams-style 'dish of the day' creature that eagerly consented to being eaten.
I have nothing against vegans, there's vegans in my family, I often prepare vegan foods, but when they force their beliefs onto you, that's when I say "f**k off and shove a carrot up your a*s", if she was so bothered by it, why not become a DM herself and create her own cruelty free world? But what do you do, kill cabbages or something? There's always going to be some level of violence, usually against creatures/animals etc in D&D, idk what she expects, but it's not like players are going to go out there and slay the nearest animal they see... glad that it seems they came to a conclusion about this though and can just return to their fun.
Coming up with an entirely cruelty free game actually sounds like a fun challenge. Like maybe you battle cute cartoon forest creatures, and when you drop anvils on them and smash them with comedically oversized hammers, it makes them sad.
Load More Replies... What about DM makes Potat-ogres, tofu Ban-cheese, honey Bee-holder... not vegan enough?
Hahaha, 'cept Bee-holders ain't Vegan. Only vegetarian :(
Load More Replies... Her cruelty free world has never and can never exist... if I were to farm soy beans I would kill more animals to feed her than I would if I was a cattle farmer. It was completely selfish for her to demand the DM change his world for her life choices. If I like women I'm not gonna demand that the gay guy stop hitting on the orcs..I'm gonna in character shiver and go hit on the nun. Likewise she should have just practiced what she lived in character by trying to find non meat based foods or creating them in game... not demand everyone else change so she be unchallenged in her dietary choices.
I mean really people elves have a stereotype about being vegetarians in some settings. Druids have them in others. Hell If I had a vegetarian player that was never an a*s about it and just practiced what they believed I'd set out a magic item that rejected anyone that had consumed the flesh of a living creature.... or a cursed item that the curse didnt work on anyone who hadn't eaten meat.
Load More Replies... Killing people, stealing and basically taking part in big conflict is also wrong and yet we do this during RPG sessions because it's fictional and interesting - as long as it's fiction. I totally understand avoiding traumatic triggers (like the example about nearly drowning) but this...
But this raises the question; can you eat "hellish flame boars". Or are the characters going to go hungry?
This is ridiculous. The newbie is vegan, so this online fantasy has to suddenly become a vegan world to accommodate her? I'd tell her where to go, which would be a different online fantasy world because she's kicked out of this one. Especially if I'm the creator of the world, therefore boss.
1. It wasn't online, they had snacks at the table 2. They were friends with multiple people at the table. If you were DM and just booted them like that two things will happen 1. The campaign ends entirely 2. You lose friends over the inevitable shitstorm that follows Basically it's not hard to write out animals and just ignore the issue of food for the sake of being the bigger man. I want to play again, but i havent had a group in years. I do agree that it's an unreasonable demand though
Load More Replies... Honestly this could be solved with a detailed quest that spans several weeks. The vegans player gets information that an ancient demigod, mindful of the fates of all the worlds animals and sharing the vegans values has created the components of narrow but power artifact. Once assembled and activated any creature that operates under natural circle of life, that is to say simply lives under the predator/ prey cycle who is hunted and killed will, in the moment before death, be switched with a lifeless/ soulless avatar that is nothing more than an imitation of that animal. In short, it's magic meat. It never lived nor was it alive. The real animal will be transported to an alternate world where it is never hunted and lives an easy, full life. This solves her problem and creates adventures. It also sets up future adventures and gives her a path where she can become a god/ demigod that protects animals. The nice thing about D&D is the only limit is imagination
Is there combat in this game, like most (or all?) D&D games? Isn't splitting someone's head open with a huge battle axe a form of "cruelty"? Did the vegan ever object to this?
Sounds like you didn't read, humanoid violence is fine as is fictional creatures, I'd honestly just write animals out of my world and people can buy generic "food". Pretty easy to write a campaign if those are the rules tbh. That said, the request is ridiculous but it's a hard call when everyone is friends and you risk destroying the group. DM and Co handled it maturely.
Load More Replies... I'm stunned by the notion that a fantasy dog has more value than a fantasy dragon. Oo
I don't think it's a matter of value; I think it's a matter of being triggered. I personally have PTSD and one of my triggers is harm coming to pets. So I would probably also be a bit upset if I was playing that game and there was an abused dog! Making it a dragon makes it a little less real, creating some emotional distance, which makes it less triggering.
Load More Replies... Doesn't surprise me. Dungeons and Dragons has become Snowflakes and Safespaces thanks to the invasion of the Twitter and Tumblr crowd Wizards has been chasing. I once trashed a campaign because some idiot thought it was appropriate to rape my character to see how cool it would be to be gay because my guy was the only straight character. He didn't think it was cool when my character gave his character neck a red smile.
I don't really see how wizards have anything to do with who joins a game
Load More Replies... "Her fantasy escape game." HERS??? This is OP's game! If she wants a cruelty free game, she can gather up players and start her own run.
The resolution was creative. I believe that the vegan individual was being extra by even asking the DM to alter his game. It's Dungeons and Dragons... Violence, savagery, cannibalism are all part of the game. If you didn't like it, then go play somewhere else... Second, it's fantasy... Nuff said there. Third. And this point here, since we're going here in a fantasy game, is why is it bad to eat/kill earthly animals, yet it's ok to eat/kill animals from other planets? Really talking out your backside there. Another observation here, why does it always seem that some kind of contradiction exists with vegans?
Two solutions. 1) "There is a door made of meat. Do you enter? No. Bye." 2) "Wendel the Wonderful Wizard casts a spell and makes you carnivore."
They were all friends, all that would do is cause fights and end the whole campaign
Load More Replies... This is like reading Big bang theory asking for AITA on reddit hahahahaha so funny
I understand teh vegan's reluctance to have meat discussed so freely in the game, with all the details of dissecting and eating. When I was eating vegetarian in college (mostly because I couldn't afford meat) I got to the point where looking at the meat in the grocery store made me nauseous. it could be the same way with the vegan. That said, I am super delighted at how these guys behaved like adults.
55
87