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“My Bitterness Toward Women Was Totally Unwarranted”: 61 Ex-Incels Share What Made Them Change
There are plenty of polarizing issues nowadays. It can be scary to share your opinion on anything, as someone else might interpret your beliefs as a personal attack against theirs. But the only way we’re ever going to understand one another is if we’re willing to hear the other side. And this article is full of stories from a community that you might have demonized if you’ve never been a part of it.
Men who formerly identified as incels, or involuntarily celibate, have been opening up on Reddit to share what finally got them to change their ways. After being bombarded with red pill propaganda, these men managed to separate themselves from that toxic community and start showing women the respect they deserve. We hope you’ll keep an open mind as you read through these stories, pandas. And please remember that everyone is allowed to change their mind and grow.
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#1
I had some great advice by a friend. I had to draw two columns on a piece of paper. Under the first column, I had to list "All the things I want in a partner." I put the usual things...[attractive], smart, successful, nice, fit, funny, etc... I was then asked to close my eyes and visualize this person. To imagine her and make her real in my mind.
Then the person labeled the second column. "Things that would attract this woman to me." I left the column blank and started to cry. I couldn't think of anything.
That blank piece of paper highlighted everything that was going wrong with women. I made no active effort to become a desirable person.
I kept the paper and eventually filled it in over the next year. I lost weight, dressed well, and went to law school to become a non-profit lawyer. I am currently sitting next to the most beautiful woman who I am scheduled to marry. Her cat is an [jerk] though.
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#2
For probably 10 years or so I was an "incel" and didn't realize it until I found r/foreveralone and got caught up in an echo chamber. I was constantly drinking, alone, at home, and wondering why no girls would talk to me or go out with me or even give me a phone number for the most part. I mean, was I not a nice guy? A proper gentleman? Being nice to all of these ladies and they weren't responding in a manner I felt they should because I was so nice all the time, I was doing stuff for my co-workers and they weren't appreciative enough. I'd be talking to a girl and find out they had a boyfriend and be so pissed that I was doing all this "nice" stuff for them and there was no way that they'd "return the favor by giving me a mouth hug or [intimate] times." Not fair, right?
Then, one day, after posting on a throwaway account I don't remember anymore, I was [complaining] about how this one co-worker who was leaving was such a [jerk] because she wouldn't respond to my advances at all and kept trying to friend zone me and I'd always be a loser and no one would ever want a guy like me because I guess I'm just too nice for my own good, right?
And some dude responded with something along the lines of "if you're only doing nice things because you think someone is going to reciprocate with [intimacy], you may not actually be a nice person. Just a nice guy. And nice guys suck. I think they even linked, or I found soon afterwards, a website about nice guys and why what you're doing is kind of a [jerk] move and maybe if you were just doing nice things for people because you were nice and not because you're putting nice coins into a vending lady to maybe show her how *special* you are you could find someone not repulsed by your overbearing, creepy antics.
So I worked on ways to be more confident in myself, improved my grooming (fat, lazy slob over here guys wondering why 8s and 10s wouldn't date smelly, sweaty me), got my haircut (I hadn't been to a barbershop in probably about 6 years at that point) and stopped treating women as some prize I had to win and more like people like me. And I got a girlfriend after ~1 month of that, that I still have to this day.
TL;DR I was a [jerk] in an echo chamber that rightfully got told off when venting about what a nice guy I was, changed, and am a better person now than I was 7 years ago.
#3
Oh god, high school me wore fedoras and believed my "superior intellect and science-based social theories" were too much for everyone and that I was really a James Bond type with my knowledge of various fields.
Turns out I was gay as [hell] but so deep in the closet my zip code was in Narnia, not really that smart in anything but too ADHD to focus past basic knowledge of anything and in a desperate need of a new wardrobe.
fly on the wall 3 hours ago
What is the matter with fedoras? Pretty darn practical in raincoast country
#4
Described myself as an Incel for a time. I was a 19 year old virgin, and 4 chan was taking up the majority of my time. Got sick of being a virgin loner who blamed others for my shortcomings and hired a [woman]. Best decision I ever made. Shortly thereafter I realized that girls weren't attracted to me because I didn't take care of myself. I still struggle with that part, but now that I have an office job I'm going to the gym again, and most importantly I'm remembering to brush my teeth. I'm surprised anyone wanted to be near me with how infrequently I brushed my teeth.
#5
Finally my time to shine, not sure if I should be proud of that.
I found my first incel forum at 13, even tho it didn't have that name. But the idologies were the same.
I was miserable back then, didn't have many friends, my grades were [bad] and I got bullied a lot.
This made me spend most of my time inside playing video games and hating life.
I hated everyone because all of my experiences with people where being bullied, I started being bullied at 4 and it didn't stop until the middle of highschool.
The forums where full of people thinking the same, it made me feel secure, like I was _right_.
I didn't have to walk the hard way to improve myself, they told me I could just let go. Nobody will ever love you so why try? You are a social reject so why try?
So I stopped showering, stopped eating, stopped caring for myself. I let myself go because these groups told me no matter how hard you try, you will fail.
I became jealous of people being more popular then me, jealous of my sister because she was so pretty and accepted herself.
She had a boyfriend, but all girls hated me.
At the time I didn't see that would I have just showered girls wouldn't have been disgusted by me.
I hated immigrants, gay people, women, handsome guys.
Everyone I saw as more accomplished than me.
It was a hard time getting out of this mindset, but eventually I made it. Turned my grades around, made some friends and went to therapy.
I even have a boyfriend now, oh the irony.
When I see incels or people like that I just can't hate them, they are in pain and struggling and need help.
Depression is one hell of beast and some people lash out in anger.
So when I look back at my old self, I really just want to give him a hug and tell him everything is going to be ok.
#6
For any Incels that are looking for a way out of this ideology, there is a very simple solution...
Treat women like people, and with respect.
You'll be surprised how far this gets you, no matter what you look like.
Even if you are a chiseled supermodel jock "Chad" and an example of what peak performance looks like, you aren't going to get far with women in the long term if you don't treat them with respect.
*Choosing not to treat women with respect is choosing to drive them away and be undateable.* "Involuntary" makes it sound so permanent and like the person identifying that way is helpless, but it's as changeable as your own behavior.
Powerful Katrinka 1 minute ago
Treating women with respect because you want something from them just means that you really don’t respect them at all. Saying that “you won’t go far” with women without treating them respectfully proves it.
#7
I don't think I ever fully embraced the incel mentality, but I got close for a couple years there. I couldn't figure out why it was so hard for me to have these close, emotional relationships with women that everybody else was enjoying. I blamed society, but I never took it so far as to blame women specifically.
But then I got a little introspective and realized that it was *me* who couldn't form close, emotional relationships. With anyone. I was completely blocked off, emotionally, from everyone around me, and trying to blame external factors for people not being able to get in.
Looking back, there were plenty of great women in my life who absolutely would've given me a shot had I not been so scared of being even a little bit vulnerable. But I consistently ran them all off with my own self destructive, narcissistic inability to trust anyone with access to my life.
I've spent the last couple of years learning how to be comfortable with being emotionally vulnerable and emotionally honest, and I've remained intentionally single and chaste through the journey. It's been difficult for me to navigate, but I think I'm a much better person for it and I think I'm close to being ready to have a mature, adult relationship.
#8
Oh God this was definitely me in high school. I was the creepy weirdo who, by the time I graduated, had asked every single girl out. I literally had no idea what I was doing wrong, I was practicing all the classic "Southern Gentlemen" things that I was supposed to yet having no luck (think "M'Lady", but only slightly less cringey). It wasn't until I got to college and went on a period of self discovery that I knew the error of my ways.
The first, and most important, concept that I learned was that women aren't dispensaries that you deposit "nice coins" into and get pusspuss in return. *They* have to choose *you*. I still kept doing nice things for girls because that's the way I was raised, but I removed my expectations for getting anything in return.
The second concept was making myself attractive, and it was a *lot* easier than I thought it would be. A nice basic buzzcut suddenly turned my oily mop of hair into a clean, presentable style. Went clean shaven on facial hair too, because all I could grow was a piddly "pubic hair" lookin' beard. Got a benzoyl peroxide solution to start working on the acne. Marching band was my form of exercise to stay fit and avoid the "freshmen 15".
Boom, done. Had an amazing gf for 3 years before we broke up to go our separate ways, mutually. It's amazing what a different perspective in life can give you.
#9
I started going down that road, wound up in some weird social relationship dynamics and just took a long hard look at my life.
In my experience there are only two things stopping someone from [sleeping with someone].
1. Having unrealistic expectations and standards.
2. Not investing in yourself as a person. To expand on that point, being aware of and able to appreciate (even if you don't *like*) things that are mainstream, managing hygiene, putting effort into your friends, including women as *friends* instead of potential partners. Just generally try to improve yourself across the board.
Pretty simple, really. I think most incel's just need a good therapist.
#10
I was raised in what can only be called a "matriarchal" family - the older brother to twin girls, my father and I always just...kept our heads down and went with the flow because it was easier to do what my mother and sisters wanted than to stick up for ourselves. This eventually turned into feelings of inadequacy, a lack of self-confidence, and putting others before myself so much so that it would end up hurting me - essentially, setting myself aflame to keep others warm.
The incel/red pill movement was this...mindblowing idea to me - it spoke to the experience I had growing up, and I fell for it. It felt like being part of a "resistance" against the way I was raised...and that group ultimately lead to me seeking counseling for depression when THAT hadn't turned me around and fixed all my problems with my upbringing.
I think a lot of incels have been (or feel they have been) hurt in some deep, intimate way by a woman and just need to understand that healing comes from within, not from extracting vengeance.
Ironically enough, it's my wife that's helped me overcome my upbringing more than anything else.
#11
I never considered myself an Incel, but considered myself a "nice guy" instead. I was a virgin until I was 23 years old, and have had many failed attempts at getting a girlfriend. Many times, the girl was even interested in me, but my confidence was too low to pursue them, and they eventually became disinterested and dated somebody else instead.
After hearing "You're like a brother to me" too many times, I just started cutting those girls out of my life. Still, every time I met a new girl, I kept trying to be best friends first, then trying to date them... over... and over... like an insane person.
Either way, in comes my current girlfriend. Met her at work, fell for her the moment I saw her. Things were hitting off and were going great between us. As usual, we became good friends, and then, I found out that she had a boyfriend. At that point, I was going to cut her out, but I made one of the most significant choices in my life instead.
I realized that she was an amazing person, and that I wanted her in my life even if I would never get the chance to date her... even if i had to spend the rest of my life alone - and I believed I would at the time. Well it turns out that her current boyfriend was a burnout and she wanted out of the relationship. I stuck to my guns and didn't pursue her, just helped her move out, and made sure that she settled into her new place comfortably since her family was on the other side of the country. Instead, she aggressively pursued me, and ignored my romantic incompetence. She was my first kiss (I burped in her mouth by accident and was instantly busted), took my V card, and in 2 weeks we will be celebrating our 4 year anniversary.
tldr; I stopped being a thirsty, desperate nice guy who felt entitled to [intimacy], and unsurprisingly, got girlfriend.
#12
I would never go as far as to say I was a full-on Incel, but for a period of time I was definitely extremely sexually frustrated and really struggled in the dating world.
Honestly, this is probably not the popular answer, but here it is: I realized that just like life, dating isn't fair.
That girl you've got a crush on who already has a boyfriend? You may very well be a better person than her boyfriend, and would treat her better and everything, but guess what? It doesn't matter, because DATING ISN'T FAIR.
You're a decent guy, and you volunteer at Soup Kitchens and give money to charity and treat people as you wish to be treated, and this other guy gets 10x the amount of female attention that you do, despite treating women like they're idiots. Guess what? Doesn't matter, because DATING ISN'T FAIR.
Honestly, once you begin to sort of accept that, it makes everything better. You let go of a lot of the bitterness and this hatred for how the world is and just learn to simply be the best that you can be. It makes you a more pleasant person to be around and (not coincidentally) increases your dating success as well.
Disgruntled Panda 9 hours ago
I think a big part of this is realising you're not owed anything.
#13
Figured out I was really trans which caused my depression and lead to my feelings of envy and resentment of women.
I was incapable of making a move on women because I couldn't understand why anyone would want a man (specifically me) to touch or be with them physically - despite the fact I'm pretty attractive and have been told this frequently.
I did finally have a steady GF at 26, but she was terribly depressed and I had to break it off because she was dragging me down with her.
It took me 2 more years of on-and-off failing at dating with other women and trying to understand why I was so bitter and frustrated to finally get to the bottom of my problems.
I've talked to a lot of late-blooming trans women and apparently they often fall into red pill or incel ideology for similar reasons.
If you can't love yourself, and take care of yourself, and make your happiness a priority instead of a means to getting women, you will never have that.
Independent happiness needs to be your sole goal - and incels place their happiness in someone else's hands. Because of that, they will never have it.
#14
I think I was incel-ish not sure tbh but I did have the tendency to blame others for my problems. After a while I realized that I couldn't live life blaming others and never taking responsibility. It was during the summer of 2016 that I took the first steps towards leaving that mindset behind me. I became a lot more conscious of what I ate and how much I ate. I started grooming myself and buying clothes that fit me better. Went to the gym a few days a week and actually made some new friends at the gym. After a few months of dieting, working out, and dressing better some of my female coworkers started asking me if I had plans for the weekend. I got a lot more attention from girls whenever I went out with friends, and had a few romantic interests none of which worked out. Life's been a lot better since I made that change and it's embarrassing looking back at how I was two years ago. I've lost a total of 120 lbs, but gained some weight back recently (big move and other things). Incels can change, they're just too stubborn to want to make any changes to because they believe they should be loved for who they are rather than how they look. I'm all about personality but I also don't want someone who doesn't take care of themselves.
#15
I stopped being a mopey loser who blamed all his problems on other people and started to work on becoming a better person. Not long after that I wasn't a virgin anymore.
#16
Learned how to read social cues properly, got over myself, and realized that friends would puff up my ego and try to make me feel better by blaming the other person, even though they knew the person I liked would never be into me or had lost interest in me, and would likely never change their mind (especially if if I kept trying to show them how "awesome" I was or called them x amount of times or did xyz).
Being persistent and goal-driven is great, until you realize you're pestering someone because you head is too far up your own bum to notice what you're doing is scary and unattractive. My behavior made me super unattractive to the opposite sex and I didn't even realize that I was the problem. I thought, 'I'm so great, if only they could see...' and they did. They saw me for what I was at that time, and I was a self-absorbed person.
Basically, if someone isn't putting in as much effort as you are, or if you're constantly chasing them/want something they're not willing to give you, then you need to step back and analyze your own actions. Are you idealizing the person you can't seem to get out of your head?
Usually it boils down to respect; respect them and yourself enough to move on from a person, etc., if it's not working out.
#17
Actual incel here.
I had lots of chauvinistic views towards women. Them being more "emotional" and not doing anything productive. It is men that do all the work, while women just need to be pretty and so on and so on.
I was failing lots of classes in college and that kind of woke me up that maybe I might need help. (Not the fact that I would spend literally days without talking to someone in college).
So I went through a crazy self-improvement phase. Studied self-help books like it was my job. Meditation, joined every club I could think off. Found out women are into some really cool stuff. Became friends with some of them.
I would consider myself to be still an incel (without the ideology). I mean that is the point of it, there is no hope. But still, I could improve myself in the way that:
1. I am aware now that I am an insecure [jerk].
2. I respect women as human beings
So happy end, I guess.
Edit: Did not expect the comment to become so popular. I regret the phrasing of "there is no hope". You should not go into self-improvement in expectation of quick results, it might take years but anyone struggling out there: **Please get help, see a therapist.** You only got this one life so you might as well try your best. I might get laid or not, **I am still living an awesome and meaningful life.**.
#18
A lot of these stories hit so close to home. I wasn't part of any "incel" groups, but was probably what people refer to as a "nice guy."
I'm shy and awkward and used to fall hard for anyone who was nice to me. One girl really took advantage of this, saying she wanted to date eventually, "just not right now". I did so much for her, thinking it would lead to a relationship. I bought her things, fixed her car, lent her money that I knew she'd never repay.
I was absolutely heartbroken when she started dating someone else. But we remained friends and I got to hear all the reasons her new guy was awful. So I held out, thinking they'd break up and I'd have a chance.
That never happened and I ended up feeling used. I didn't take any responsibility for myself and blamed her entirely.
After that, I jumped into a relationship with another girl who cheated, manipulated, and [mistreated] me.
I saw this as a pattern and tried to find some reason for why it had happened to me when the people around me all seemed to do well with dating. Again, I blamed external factors. It must have been that I was ugly? Maybe I wasn't rich enough? Those must be the only things women care about. All women are really just out to find a man to leech off of until they stop being useful.
I started down a path of seeing women as some sort of trophy for success. Being nice didn't matter, it would actually show weakness and hurt your chances.
But what changed all that was when I joined tinder, as strange as it sounds. I joined with the intention of just trying to hook up for the first time. But almost everyone I talked to was so nice and seemed genuinely interested in me, even if I wasn't the best looking or the wealthiest guy in the world. The first tinder date I went on, she was really sweet and we spent a lot of time just talking. I didn't feel used or pitied. She ended up ghosting me, but that was ok, because my confidence was restored. It turns out my real problem was that I didn't know how to talk to women until then.
My dating life completely turned around after that and I recognize that my bitterness toward women was totally unwarranted.
#19
I think I started off the path to inceldom. I was young and other girls weren’t crushing on me the way I was on them. I think it was my extremely low self confidence, I joined the lacrosse team and started to feel a lot better about myself and found an identity and I think that’s what pulled me out. I started to become more confident and I had more friends that I hung out with all the time.
#20
This is back in the day, way before the use of "Incel", but here it is.
I was one of the unpopular kids. I was bullied and beat up a lot, told I was dumb and ugly, all that stuff. My father was emotionally absent, and instead chose to work all the time. My mother mostly raised me, but in a very protected way. She also died when I was 21, and I pretty much never saw my dad, and I moved out on my own after that. So there's my life history.
In highschool I would hang out with a few other guys like myself. We also would hang out with the band kids (yup) and watch the "good looking" guys get all the girls. One guy got all the girls, literally. I had no social skills and was pretty much an outcast. I played to goofy guy as much as possible. I had a few fleeting moments of a GF for a few minutes until I went overboard, creeped them out, and they ran off (sorry!)
I had a crush on most girls, which went on for years and years of me being friendzoned but desperately "waiting" for my chance. Dumb, dumb, dumb. But yeah.
One day a miracle happened. I was at a party and this just ridiculously hot chick - Suzanne - was having a fight with her boyfriend Chris. I just happened to be in the kitchen juggling knives. She thought that was cool, she liked my jokes, we flirted (I guess!) and she broke up with Chris in front of everyone in the party. In French. I happened to speak Spanish so I understood a little, but the inflection and mannerisms of the conversation made it pretty clear what was going on.
Lost my virginity to her, and dated her for a while. It was pretty cool. Except she only stayed in CA with her dad for a few weeks/months at a time, so it was mostly long distance. One day I got Chlamydia. Went to the doctor with her. Got treated. The doctor told us, together, that it was an STD and was only transmitted as such. I had never been with anyone else, and she also said the same. Looking back, I realize the doctor thought to himself "Bunch of moron kids."
So it turns out - gasp - she was [sleeping with] all sorts of guys on the side. I was totally ruined. Broke up with her 9 times and then finally swore her off on the 10th time!
I was single for a few more years, then met my now ex-wife. It was a slow slide into misery, over 11 years. In the end it was like sleeping in the same bed with my sister - totally creepy and weird. She cheated on me as well, I divorced her, moved out.
Now here's where it turns around.
I worked with a guy named Rob. He was from England, very short (5' 6"?) compared to me (6' 4"), very goofy looking with glasses, but ... he could pick up almost any woman he spoke with. It was unbelievable. He saw the idiotic way I thought about women, and tried to help me. Of course, I knew what I was doing, and refused. So we'd go out and he'd practically *force* me to speak to women, but I would chicken out. So he would, and then he'd go home with her, right before my very eyes.
I finally came to the conclusion that everything I knew was wrong, backwards, ignorant, and I simply made up all these ideas myself. I never learned anything about dating, women, relationships, etc. Rob, however, did. And so I started listening to him. And going on dates. A lot of *bad dates* but they were dates.
Turns out I was actually pretty smart, good looking, and fun to be with. Who would of known? Looking at pictures of myself when I was in my 20's and 30's I think I am downright handsome. Oh well!
Unfortunately, this was right after my divorce, and I then lost my job and had to move to get a new job. But his lessons, and my *wrongness* stuck in my head. I distinctly remember thinking to myself one day "If I am so good with cars and computers, why can't I be good with women?" **That was the switch.**
After that I ravenously read books and websites on everything to do with dating, relationships, women, being a more mature man, manners, communication, social skills, you name it. The change was nearly immediately and had near-instant results. In addition, all these changes provoked me to branch out and learn about other areas of my life that were lacking, such as leadership, finances, cooking, technology skills, and on and on. As a result, I was amazed to find not only was my personal life and happiness improving, but so was my professional life and career.
These skills took me from being a heads-down tech guy to the Helpdesk Manager, then over the years (and decades) to be the Team Lead, then the Software Engineering Manager, then the Director of Software Development. I can speak to people anywhere, anytime, and have very polished skills in person and via electronic communication.
In the end, I met a wonderful woman, I would say she is my soulmate, and we have a very nice life. I have exceeded all my dreams and had to come up with more ideas!
Bottom line? Robert was the catalyst, showing me what I refused to acknowledge about myself and the reality of the world, but the books took me from being completely ignorant of the world to being nearly fully functioning in ways that are amazing.
#21
I looked at my messages with this one girl I was trying to get with, and how I tried so hard to ruin her relationship with her boyfriend because I was nice to her and I deserved her. I saw them, and I realized, this is awful. She saw me as one of her greatest friends and I tried to [messed] up her relationship, and when I didn't get what I wanted, I would say the most awful things. I asked myself, how am I a nice guy if I do [things] like this? I literally made her cry, multiple times. This is the sorta [things] that keeps me up at night, even though this was a few years ago. But just one day thinking about it, I realized how [toxic] my mindset actually was. I'm much better now, because I've learned from my mistakes. I apologized to everyone involved because I just couldn't get it off my mind.
#22
I realized it was my own fault. I couldn't keep blaming women for not wanting me.
Started improving myself, asking female friends what was wrong with me and taking their advice to heart. Women usually know pretty well why you're not getting laid, you just need to find women who are honest enough to tell you.
#23
I never really considered myself an Incel at the time (mostly because I'd never heard the phrase) but I was very incelly in highschool, I was the type of person who would hold a door open and then wonder why girls weren't falling into my lap.
Turns out highschool me wasn't that attractive and "nice" isn't a personality. I fell very much into the Chad's n stacey's frame of mind for a while.
A lot of things changed really, but mostly I just grew up. It's a super childish view of things and just doesn't take into account that the people around you are...well people.
If someone held a door open for you, you wouldn't throw yourself at them. It's about the maturity in relationships.
#24
I am SOOOO glad I had my teenage years in the late eighties & early nineties before the internet, let alone social media. Back then I couldn’t get a date, let alone a girlfriend. I was, to be fair, hardly a catch, suffering from persistent depressive disorder (form an orderly queue ladies!) and just generally having problems adapting. I was acknowledged to be a bit weird. I kind of accepted that it was my “fault” - which was bad for me short term but probably good (in the long term) for everyone concerned. Ultimately I had to sort myself out. But if I had had access to the sort of Incel [stuff] online around today, I fear I would have lapped it up with a spoon. A very large group of like minded people telling me it isn’t my fault?!?! I can stop moping and start hating? Fantastic! I’m in! I would have been able to celebrate my status instead of reflecting on it and changing it. I’m sure I’d have been more than tempted.
Social media has eroded, even destroyed, the concepts of privacy Gen X and before took for granted. For us to be an outsider, to be weird, was something you could do alone and grow out of - if you wanted to of course. For the later millennials and beyond, even in quarantine, there is no alone, no solitude to reflect. Everything seems to be out there looking for likes and other forms of validation my addled mid 40s brain can’t comprehend. Incels are a form of social validation that could not really have existed before social media. To get a network like that going would have been logistically and technically impossible on a scale beyond small outsider cliques in secondary schools. Now they are a movement. I somewhat pity Incels because, but for 20 or so years, I could have been one of them.
#25
I was a being of pure hatred. I always thought it was someone else's fault. Inceldom is a state of mind which requires strength and sometimes outside guidance to overcome. One of my friends essentially gave me a proverbial slap to the face on the subject and told me exactly what to do and how to become a more better person.
In conclusion, I look back with regret and sorrow, for all the people I hurt and made uncomfortable, because I know there are many.
Edit: I've received many questions about what my friend did to help me.
My friend was and is someone I looked up to so I suppose that is an influence but basically the thing that I needed to understand was that the fact the girls who I was constantly being rejected by were just people living their best life and me whining about it wouldn't change their preferences so instead I worked on being happy without needing a gf and just letting it happen when it happens.
There's always something to be said for talking to your friends, taking the time out of your day to listen to their troubles and offering advice. It really helped me so I encourage you to do the same!
#26
You know, I don't know if this'll be buried but I can actually share something valuable here. TLDR, I was, it comes down to a lack of respect and ignorance to self awareness.
I did consider myself mostly an incel. Maybe, more of a "nice guy", but to my core I believed that girls were only after the Chads and douchebags. It was from the ages of 12-18, so a lot through my formative years.
Here's the mindset: you've never had any awareness of the fact that girls don't indeed chase [jerks], **because that's all you've ever looked for**. Whenever you see a pretty girl who says she is in a relationship, you immediately assume that her boyfriend is a terrible person. Though, **not because he is**, but because you yourself assume that you would just be *so* much better off with her than any other person. You don't/won't see your own flaws, so you'll assume the worst of the guy.
The truth is, it comes down to **major insecurity issues** and a lack of any male relationships.** If you don't have many different male friends, you're going to assume that only the cocky guys get the girls. In reality, they are displaying charisma and confidence - something that is very attractive. Everyone knows this.
It's a lack of awareness. It's easier to say that you yourself are too short, too ugly, too untalented, etc. than to admit that you have a crappy personality with little to no charisma. **You won't find a happy, charming incel.**
If I could have gone back to myself and say: Here's the deal. Girls don't look for one particular thing in a dude. They don't just want a "tall dude", or a "wide jaw" dude.
They want someone to be comfortable around. They don't want you to praise them as some higher being, they want to be treated with respect. But most importantly **- they don't exist to [sleep] with you.** ***They don't even exist to be your friend.*** They don't owe you anything - no one does. **Just because you like them, doesn't mean they have to like you.** Don't try to sleep with girls by being their friend. Be grateful that someone sees any quality in your person for them to want to be around you at all. Be grateful that someone wants to be your friend. You are shallow and you only care about looks - you saying it's about personality is all [nonsense].
That's it.
I was a young, angry kid. I'm glad I'm the man I am today; I've had a lot of confidence issues which went away as I grew older. I went through many edgy phases, and it took all of these mistakes to learn them. So I feel empathy for incels because they don't know any better. They don't know just how wrong they are, because admitting fault and self-improvement takes time and effort; blaming and hating girls does not. Instead of hating girls, my only wish is that I started on self-improvement sooner.
**EDIT**: I am thankful that this struck a chord with a lot of people. Many are asking what "self-improvement" means in this context. I believe it is subjective, but to me, it meant physical, mental, and emotional. TLDR, hit the gym, get hobbies, make female friends for the sake of friendship, and do real kind things for the sake of goodness and kindness.
More specifically, I started going to the gym after youtubing a lot of which exercises are the most important. A very helpful community like r/AskMen is a wonderful community full of great advice. Whenever a post pops up asking how to gain confidence, the top answers are always "Hit the Gym" - for good reason. So I did. I'd have to say that losing upwards of 25kg (55lbs) does change your own mental image. Suddenly, you feel like "attractivity" isn't as unattainable. Plus, you develop discipline and a much healthier lifestyle. That doesn't work for everyone, so I suggest investing time into a physical hobby. Cooking, learning an instrument, hiking, volunteering, dog walking - the list is endless. Seek personal improvement in something. Set goals and strive for them.
With mental improvement (mostly towards women), it took a lot of self-reflection to get anywhere. It did help that I grew up with 4 sisters, so I saw how much each one of those "handsome chads" broke their hearts after being used. Suddenly, wanting to be "Alpha" wasn't as appealing. Having sisters taught me how to behave around girls, but not everyone has that privilege. For that, I heavily recommend r/AskWomen. It in a way humanises women/girls as it gave me perspective on their insight. **They're real people with real struggles, too.** Imagine just wanting to exist and to go on about your own thing, and some helpful guy comes along. He's thoughtful and mindful, might even be a little funny. Then out of nowhere, he wants to spend more time with you, intimately. However, you are just trying to figure this whole life thing out, and sinking a lot of time and energy into a relationship isn't something you're looking for right now. You don't want to lead him on, so you politely decline his courtship.
^ That's a good case scenario. Bad/worst case, they get violent and either stalk you/attackyou.
These stories are a dime a dozen both on r/AskWomen and r/niceguys.
It also did help tremendously having female friends. The attraction may still be present, but friends you just want to exist with. Hanging out with them, seeing their struggles made me see that they didn't exist for my benefit.
With emotional improvement, this is the toughest that is hard to come back from. You need to be quite mindful and self-aware. I was such an edgy kid - I'm talking dying my hair black and straightening it, creeping people out purely for their reaction, using a thesaurus wherever possible, had the "girls are sluts chasing tall chads" mentality. I think doing good things for people as much as possible helped the most here. Whether it was being a pair of ears to vent to, helping family out with anything, filling in instrument roles for other peoples performances in music class - it all taught me what **real kindness** was. **Real kindness does not mean being a basic, civil human being.** To me, it means going out of your way to help someone **with the expectation of nothing in return**. Suddenly, annoying girls by calling them "pretty", and "pure", then getting mad when they don't compliment you back doesn't sound that kind anymore. "Nice guys" are actually unadjusted children currently incapable of self-reflection, rejection, and growth. All I can say is just focus on you. Don't focus on what you think people want out of you.
I'm only 23 so I have a long way to go. Of course, I'm still human - I'm still capable of being a [jerk]. However, humans are also capable of many selfless acts. Feel empathy and sorry for the incel whose only explanation to their terrible perspective on reality is blamed away on other people.
#27
I remember when I first found the incel community, it was actually a pretty helpful place. It was more of a support group for people who were unattractive, socially awkward, ect. There wasn't any of this nice guy [nonsense] . Everyone knew why they were involuntarily celibate, and just wanted to vent frustrations and get support. It was really good for my confidence. Then the toxic masculinity started to creep in and took right over, as everyone knows.
I fell on the incel line of being not unattractive, but personality wise, all I did was play videogames. I didn't have anything interesting about my life, and so women just weren't interested in me, and I never put myself into situations to meet people.
New job with great people, I started to do different things. Played hockey for the first time at thirty. Joined the group for a couple of travelling tournaments where we got absolutely Vegas type plastered for weekends in different cities. Job is very much a hang out and chat type job (security), so talking with the women on the team on the regular starts removing the air of mystique I had built around them. Got my motorcycle licence, and did a solo trip across the states from Canada to the Mexican border, and back that same year. Started doing tough mudders, buying a season pass and traveling to any of the ones I could drive to.
Then I got tinder and just started going on dates. Had a few good, few bad, and then met my wife.
All and all, I ultimately blame a world of warcraft that held me back in my early twenties to my late twenties and just missed out on those socially formitive years.
#28
In high school I was 300 pounds and my only conversations were about video games. Specifically World of Warcraft. I was nice to lots of girls. Thought I was the perfect gentleman like my mom taught me to be. I had female friends. However, I never could get a girlfriend or a girl interested in me except for one time a girl dated me a 4 hours as a dare and then publicly dumped me in the lunch room.
This caused me to start to despise women. Eventually, I learned it was my terrible hygiene and excessive weight that was causing girls to not like me. I started going to the gym and got into great shape. Lost 110 pounds, got a new style, started dressing and smelling good. All the sudden girls couldn’t get enough of me when I went to college.
Due to all the rejection I had in middle/high school, I actually developed a [dependency]. I would date a different girl every month and was notorious for one night stands. I looked at women as a game to fill my missing void. I couldn’t get enough. This went on for years until I realized I had a problem. Now years later I am married and in decent shape but not gym obsessed like before. I still see myself as both people. The guy obsessed with video games and food and then the guy who loves working out and partying. As I type this it is odd reflecting on how I lived two different lives over 15 years.
#29
I didn't *hate* women, but I thought that I couldn't get a chance due to some cosmic bad luck, or something. I made fun of any guy that put effort into his appearance, and wondered why girls wanted "chad" instead of a guy **who has deep conversations, like me.** *barf*
Then, I realized that I was kind of sucky-ish to be around in a lot of situations. I would panic (due to over-thinking and inexperience) 1-on-1, and I didn't dress to look good, so that probably didn't encourage people to invite me out.
Then I realized that the girls like "Chad" because he makes people feel comfortable, doesn't always talk about the meaning of life, and he always smells *Amazing*. That guy's awesome!
More than anything, I realized that I was looking at women wrong. They're not some creature that needs to be woo-ed into [intimacy] and relationships. I just talk to them like they're people, without any underlying motive. Turns out that they like that. Go figure.
So now, I'm a guy who works out religiously, takes 30 minutes to get ready, wears cologne and brushes his teeth before he goes anywhere. I also put significant effort into increasing my social skills. I do much better, primarily due to me being a much better person.
#30
I was about 22 (fat)and became obsessed with this one girl I worked with (she was 20). She was more of a Volcel because of her family, dating outside races was a no-no and marriage was preferred.
I asked her out and she declined and I was so obsessed that she was like me and basically did all the “Nice guy” things, playing the victim and not letting it go, snobbing her any chance I could, and the passive aggressive status updates on Facebook. She did admit to kind of
liking me in the beginning but she just wasn’t that into me
Fast forward about a year and half later and I lost a bunch of weight and was obsessed with dating books to become better at handling all those negative hangups. We talked again after 6 months and found out she’s starting to see someone else. I was curious why it didn’t bother me so much, but I came to realize the reason why I was so obsessed had everything to do with my insecurities and not because she was so great. After that moment and weight loss, things went far smoother with women and relationships.
TL;DR: I realized I was an insecure guy who had to be strong for myself to be strong for somebody else.
#31
Never identified as an incel, but I was definitely a “Nice Guy” until around 20 or 21. Basically, I grew up and realized that women are actually just regular people too and not some mythical guardians of [intimacy] and romance that I had to appease so that I can be rewarded with their attention.
#32
I wouldn't say incel since this is when I was like, 13? 14? But whatever. I remember agreeing with the (at the time) meme mentality of "Ugghhh the friend zone hahaaa". I mean, if you've proven yourself and she only sees you as a friend, it's her fault, right?
Welp. I saw another meme that showed the opposite reaction. Where it's just a girl who enjoys their friendship with the other person, they just don't see anything romantic. And then the guy gets mad and cuts her out of his life and etc.
Seeing that made me realize "Wait. Not everyone has to act all lovey dovey with the opposite sex. Maybe they just want to be buds regardless of emotions." So, yeah. I dropped off the incel mentality pretty quickly.
#33
I went down the red pill road a while back.
I've always had self confidence issues. I don't really stand out, I'm not super exciting, or super funny or super attractive. I'm just a wall flower.
I got into it because I was trying to challenge myself to be more social. To branch out and meet new people. But the girls I was meeting... just didn't [care]. They'd politely talk to me when I intruded on their attention. But then return their focus to whatever [jerk] they wanted to bang. Leaving me feeling confused and unappreciated.
The girls didn't care, but some of the guys seemed to notice. And figured they'd just take me under their wing. They encouraged me to fake my confidence a little better, and put myself out there more. I was less intimidated by talking to strangers. Which is good. It's the first hurdle towards meeting new people. which is what you have to do if you want to meet a person that actually likes you.
But they were also encouraging me not to take no for an answer. They were teaching me to treat it like a test and shrug it off and keep trying. They encouraged me to say and do some [messed up things] that I'm not proud of. But nothing I was doing was working, so I had to try something new. Right? The advice I was getting was coming from the "experts." The girls I was interested in were fawning over these same guys and brushing me aside. So I wanted to be more like them.
But there's a power trip related to it too. Rejection hurts. Constant rejection just eats at you. It makes you want to lash out, and hurt the people who are hurting you. If People treat you like you're nothing long enough, and you're too pushy or grabby with them. They stop treating you like you're nothing. It's a negative change. But it's still better than nothing. It's an easy way to reclaim your confidence after someone shatters it.
It's about retaking control of your life in an area of your life you feel powerless. But you can't take control like that without hurting the people in your path.
Instead I put the red pill back, and burned those friendships. I accepted that I would never have that kind of control. It'll be several months before the next time someone on tinder swipes Right on me. When I flirt with that girl at the bar, there's going to be a cringe at the edge of her smile and she's going to shy back to her friends the first chance she gets. I can't change that, I don't even understand why it happens. I see it. It hurts. And I understand why others react to that pain by lashing out.
I have a choice. I can resent everyone around me for being more likable than I am. or I can simply accept it and make do with what I've got. I don't want to hurt anybody. So I just keep to myself and do my own thing.
I read stories about incels and I relate to the pain they're going through. What separates me from them is that I don't approve of their solutions. Incels are struggling with the social aspect of their life, and they don't have anybody they can discuss their problems with except other incels. Guys just don't talk about [things] like this normally. it's considered weakness, it's not manly. We're taught to avoid these topics and just toughen up. We're taught the only emotion we're allowed to display is anger. It's like if you're depressed, and you reach out for help, and the only people you can find to listen are other people who are depressed.
I just wish positive solutions for men were easier to find and encourage with others. I think Men need to be sexualized more and in different ways so that they can build their own positive body images similar to women. I think Men need to be more supportive of each other similar to how women are. I think if Incels had these factors in their life, it would help stabilize them some and they wouldn't be lashing out so much.
I just want to feel like I'm attractive in some way.
I just want to feel like I'm appreciated.
#34
I had a span of self-induced loathing in my early 20’s that had me in the same mindset as incels. Minus the whole urge to harass, but I blamed women for them not wanting to talk to me. For rejecting me. I believe someone up above talked about maturity and who they were in High School. I, too, was a D bag. Decent looking guy but [bad] person. Shallow is a perfect adjective for my High School self. That whole viewpoint or self-importance carried into my early 20’s and it didn’t work out well. It wasn’t until I was 27/28 and started getting into Philosophy.
Philosophy changed me. It made me self reflect and force me to be honest with myself. To hold myself accountable and also to forgive myself for all the mistakes I have made and to realize I have the power to change/improve myself. That’s when my “INCEL/Women Blaming” ended. I’m glad I survived that period of my life.
I think a lot of what goes on is how relationships in our society are portrayed. Speaking for myself, a guy that grew up in the 90’s, it always seemed that every movie the woman was the one needing saving and the way to a woman’s heart was to be a gentleman. This whimsical fairy tale taught to us at an early age sets people up for false expectations of both roles in a relationship. There really is no teaching about how hard relationships are and that no relationship should be the reason you are happy.
If I was taught that growing up maybe things would have been different for me. But that was a big personal problem for me. Trying to validate my happiness through a relationship. Left me wide open to get taken advantage of and pushed further into that toxic mindset.
But, looking back I’m glad I went through it. I finally found the love I’ve always wanted and I couldn’t be happier. My relationships feel more real now and that I have a new realization and perspective on my relationships. I DEFINITELY look at women a lot differently now and have made multiple reach outs to some classmates from high school to apologize for how much of a pig I was.
But yea “INCEL” mentality seems to come from the self-hatred/denial of one’s own faults/flaws. Women are not sexual objects. You don’t deserve their attention. They are human beings and deserve that respect.
Once, those moronic INCELs realize they wasted the best parts of their lives blaming others for their own failures instead of making changes that will be their greatest regret in life.
Knowing ,that all along, they had the power to change their situation.
#35
Basically I had a moment of clarity that there was no way I was right and half the human race was wrong. One of the most painful nights of my life. Just confronting myself like that.
After wallowing in self pity for hours I decided to concentrate on self improvement specifically by playing to my strengths and learning how to hold a conversation better.
Later on I told a friend of mine about it and she asked me out. Looking back I am about 80% it was a pity date but at the time it really helped. We had a few nice dates together one of which ended with us cuddling.
We both ended up moving but kept in touch for years. I am very grateful to her.
This story does have a happy ending me and my wife are hitting the decade mark fairly soon and I have daughters.
So to any girls reading this if you help an incel out you can really make a difference in his life, his future wife, and his kids.
#36
I am 35 and didn't lose my virginity until 31. Didn't really start dating until 30. But I didn't identify as an incel, wasn't aware that was a label. I knew angry and bitter women haters was a thing. Elliot Rodger was what would come to mind when I learned about it as an actual ethos (he shot up a sorority house because nobody would [sleep with] him).
But during all my years of not dating I did feel entitled to happiness I just wasn't getting. Timing, circumstances, excuses. I always had a reason. Unhealthy hangups on women that were just unavailable stymied any moving on I could do.
For me it was periods of isolation that did the damage. I spent a lot of time alone in college, and I did not even have internet at my home or a computer. It was college, I used campus resources. And it was still during the time dating online was considered super weird so if my mind went there the societal stigma mixed with the swan song of Catholic guilt meant I didn't do anything, made no effort.
So that was more or less my situation when I graduated college and moved back in with family. I at least got more readily accessible internet (only after eight months but that's another story). But still rarely went out, even though I had a circle of friends. People change, I get drunk and make a fool of myself and assume they don't want me around anymore, etc. Video games and TV shows were big distractions. There were rare instances of meeting women online through non-dating sites. But they would be a thousand miles away and I still thought myself wrong for pursuing relationships that way.
Around 30 I just started making actual effort. There's a whole thing with when I got an iPod Touch that turned things around for me (I actually wrote it out for another comment but I'm on mobile and will link or paste if you're interested). Exercising and losing weight made me feel more confident. I was never super overweight compared to others, well below 100 pounds excess.
I got dating apps and just started chatting. I'm fairly clever and I can write, so I at least turned that into many first dates. Got a few months out of it sometimes, which was when I lost my virginity. I didn't tell her, and honestly after I didn't think of it as a huge deal anymore. I just looked at the years of missed or ignored opportunities to do anything and was just annoyed at past self. Pretty sure that night I stared at myself in the mirror eye-screaming *it's about time.*
Less than a year later I met another who I've been with ever since. That was over three years ago.
I said before I felt entitled to happiness. Sometimes over the years I would pursue taken girls or at least pine over them. I judged them for dating obvious [jerks]. But when that inevitably ended I of course never tried to get in there myself. I don't think I ever *really* hated them for it.
Maybe I was never an incel after all, just a dad and lonely guy holding onto hope.
#37
I was an incel ally for a while until I realized how self-destructive it was. Still kissless, but i'm taking steps to improve.
#38
I don't think I was an incel per se, but I'll tell my story. I went to a military school. It was a boarding school, but we had a good number of students who lived in the area who came to school during the day and went home afterwards. All the girls that attended fell into this category (obviously). Now the number of guys there far outnumbered the girls. My senior year there was 30 girls and something like 250-300 guys. So, yeah, the girls had their pick of the litter, so to speak. And tall, skinny, goofy looking, shy, socially awkward me, who never had much luck with the ladies out in the real world, didn't stand a chance. The phrase "slim to none" didn't apply at all. My chances were straight up "none" at that place. So of course the girls gravitated towards the guys who were good looking, or athletic, or had the gift of good gab, and never said two words to me. And of course I resented that. In my mind they were all a bunch of [jerks]. But then one day the ol' inner voice said "Dude, you're a [jerk] you know that? Can you honestly say that if the situation was reversed you wouldn't be doing the exact same thing?". And I thought "Yeah, if that were the case I'd definitely be making time with all the hotties". So after that I just let it go. Still didn't help me out with the girls there, but I felt much better about myself after that.
#39
Decided that I wasn't happy with myself. Quit gaming and joined the gym (best decision of my life) which just kind of set off a chain reaction of self improvement. Learned how to take care of myself, how to properly do my hair etc.
Can safely say that I'm much different to how I was a year ago. I've been in a relationship with a beautiful girl both in terms of personality and looks, so far these 2 months with her have been the best of my life :) hoping it will last
Edit: just realised I didn't fully answer the question. I guess what drove me to it was losing all hope somewhere along the line that I'd ever find someone that was interested in me and blaming everyone but myself. Also realising how superficial society in general is nowadays, which I still believe to an extent.
#40
I was the “nice guy” that got friend zoned by any girl I tried to talk to in high school. I was always the one to confess my feelings for a girl just because she had been nice to me for a couple weeks. Then, when she just wanted to be friends, I would get upset with myself and her. Seeing these same girls that friend zoned me hooking up with the [jerks] pissed me off to no end.
I was the type that would do absolutely anything a girl asked me to do at any time. One girl asked me to buy her cigarettes at 1am while I was in bed asleep, so what did I do? Drove straight to the gas station and then 15 minutes to her house and was met with a half-hearted hug and a thanks. I couldn’t understand why these girls didn’t want to sleep with me.
Eventually I realized I was the one putting myself though all this emotional trauma. I decided I was going to work on myself, and not care what girls thought. I realized my hair was always messy and uncut, my clothes were old and fit poorly, and I had been wearing the same beat up shoes for several years. Not only that, but I was scrawny as [hell].
So I hit the gym, went from 150 pounds to 195 over several years (I am 6’2” for reference). And at the same time I started caring about my physical appearance. I started getting a fresh haircut every 2 weeks, bought clothes that fit well and showed off my gym gainz, and my confidence went way up. Having the confidence to not care whether a girl liked me back or not was the real game changer. I’m now at the point where I don’t really hit on girls too much, the ones I talk to usually come to me first.
I look back on all my old mistakes and one piece of advice I can give is: don’t [care] about anyone else but yourself. If you invest all of your self worth into what a girl thinks about you, you’re gonna have a bad time.
TLDR: work out and focus on improving yourself and don’t [care] about what girls think of you.
#41
I don’t know if I qualify as an incel since all of my woman problems happened before social media, but maybe my history mirrors any current “former incels”.
I remember my first crush in maybe 2nd grade. I told my mom I liked a girl in school and asked her how I could get the girl to like me. Big mistake: she told me to be nice to her.
This pattern repeated. Every female friend or woman in my life, when I would ask them how to get girls to like me, they would reinforce that I should be some variation of nice to them (“be a gentleman”, “be her friend first”, etc.). Of course, behaving in this way got me a lot of female friends and the number of voices reaffirming this advice kept increasing. Movies, romantic comedies, and other media also reinforced this. The self effacing, self sacrificing nice guy got the girl in the end due to no other value than his virtuous behavior.
So it should come as no surprise that when this didn’t work in real life I got frustrated and angry. But, crucially, because I was supposed to be nice, I kept all of this frustration to myself. I imagine if incel sites existed back then I would’ve vented my frustration there and gotten sucked into the negative feedback loop.
What got me out of that mindset was when I started becoming friends with guys who were better at getting women than I was. I remember in my early 20s a guy saying that asking women for dating advice is like a rock musician asking a music critic how to write better music.
So I started copying the behaviors of these guys: mirroring their attitude, working out with them, dressing like them, drinking like them, dancing like them, all that. More or less just became a frat bro who was enjoying life.
#42
>what brought me in
memes, honestly among me and my friends it was just dark humour; we would laugh at incel jokes because they were insane. Over time it just started becoming too real. The jokes about people being chad this or roastie that started making sense to me.
>what brought me out
I genuinely just stopped caring. Apart from my bad looks I'm doing pretty well. I'm pretty content to live life alone but fulfilled rather than always be pining after someone else. After a while the ridiculousness became more visible again, the hypocrisies started showing through.
#43
In High School I sorta was a “Incel” in 9th/10th grade. My mother from a young age put me in religious schools with small class sizes and I didn’t have much opportunity outside of class because the activities I was involved in were either from the school, or mostly catered to guys.
Ended up grabbing life by the [testicles], telling my parents that I was switching to public education, and I ended up switching in the middle of my 11th year, and plopped myself down at a random lunch table. Ended up going to prom that year, making a lot of friends, and having a good time. I don’t think my life would be as successful now without that experience.
My advice? It could be you, it could be your environment, or it could just be chance. Keep trying, and remember that insanity is trying the exact same thing over and over again, so mix it up.
#44
I don’t think people understand a lot about incels and I think this is a good moment to at least show a couple people that read this that inceldom is just a form of depression. When me and most people got into inceldom, we didn’t hate women (I never did btw) we just hated ourselves. And you don’t become a hardened incel on the first day, a couple things need to happen first, and these are the basic steps to “create an incel”
1. Be really ugly (or at least think you are), straight up undesirable by almost all societal standards.
2. Have little or no friends irl
3. (This is a big one) be lied to constantly. Most “incels” really just need to hit the gym or take a good shower to be attractive, but when they voice their concerns about their appearances, they have to do so online, where no one knows what they look like. This means that most positive comments won’t apply or would seem like lies to us hence the constant meme in the community of “just be nice to girls and you’ll get a girlfriend” which is unfortunately perceived to be a display of ignorance by others as to just how ugly you are.
4. Get “blackpilled” - this step is where veteran or Real incels (who are pieces of human garbage btw) convince you, regardless of not knowing what you look like, that indeed you are ugly and you have no hope and you will die alone and that all women will hate you forever.
(It’s important to note in this step that this makes up around 1% of the incel community, if even less, and are extremely delusional and hateful individuals who have made it their job to hurt society as much as they can and gather followers to do so, and just to re-iterate this is an INCREDIBLY small group of people)
What most people don’t know, is that most incels get better. Personally for me, I just realized I wasn’t that ugly and I just had confidence issues (this makes up many incels), or actual what society would call “ugly” incels, end up just getting girlfriends because fun fact, girls get really desperate too and no one wants to be alone.
P.s - any members of the Incel tear “community” should realize what they’re doing is harmful and is perceived by many incels to be society bullying them. It isn’t really great to get bashed just for being ugly and thinking women hate you, it just pushes incels further into their depression, and I’m convinced had incel tears not gained the popularity it has, we would have many less incels today, as the group has exploded in popularity in recent times, and I do attribute it to hateful subreddits such as incel tears.
#45
I was a lonely kid growing up. I sort of rationalized it by looking at the "cool, quiet" or "strong but silent" archetype, and I would assume that it was cool to be the way I was. Of course, that's not how humans work, so I ended up lonely and depressed. I was (and still am) a fiend, as well as someone who deeply desired companionship. I just really, really wanted someone to love me.
So, I want love and [intimacy]. What can I do to get that? Oh I know, I'll just act like Sasuke! I thought that being quiet would make me cool and mysterious, and make the girls fawn over me. That's not how it worked out, and I was just the weird quiet kid in the back of the class. Media always shows that the nice guy wins, that the gentleman will be the one who, at the end of the day, wins the girl. So I thought that if I was just nice, good things would come my way. I did not, however, realize that I actually needed to do other things for that to happen. So when I saw all of the "Chads" getting together with all of these girls who I had crushes on (see: 80% of the female population in my school), as well as being loved by the general masses, I became bitter. I blamed the girls for being stupid and not realizing that the man of their dreams, a true gentleman, someone who would treat them right and worship them like a princess, was right in front of them. Basically, I was an idiot with no self awareness and blamed all of my problems on other people.
There wasn't really a specific point at which I stopped being an incel, I just kind of grew out of it around the time I started focusing on self improvement. I'm still a kissless virgin because social anxiety sucks, but it doesn't bother me as much now. I realized that what I wanted wasn't necessarily a girlfriend, but just friends. I wanted to feel like I wasn't some kind of subhuman being, I wanted someone to really care about me. In that regard, I'm pretty happy with where I am now.
#46
I used to be an incel of sorts not to the point where I literally despised women but I was very resentful of them and had very sexist opinions on things. This stemmed from my mother being the only woman in my life I really knew and she split up with my dad when I was about 10 then held all his letter and calls to me from for over 2 years and just said that I guess he didn’t care about me. She also was basically never home since she had me at 20 she said that I ruined her fun stage of life so she went to a bar around the corner every night for years and years.
She would come home with different guys and make me talk to them some for their looks some for money to get more alcohol or [illegal substances] for the month. So with this as your only person to really base women on it’s hard to not get a jaded opinion. Luckily I met my amazing gf when I was 18 and moved out and she along with some help from a therapist has really helped my views on women, which were really quite bad. I didn’t know it was bad till my gf and I had a talk about a year in about if we would prefer a boy or girl baby and I went basically ballistic about not having a girl.
I’m happy to say I can look back and know that I was very wrong and moved past it now.
#47
Weirdly enough, it started by me giving up. For years I thought how unfortunate I was for not having ladies because of my shyness. I felt paralyzed by it. Powerless and that frustrated that saddened me to no end. Then, one day, it dawned to me that I was not so helpless as I thought.
Many people suggested me to look for psicologists to help, but I was always postponing, mostly because I knew any treatment would mean facing my fears and that is hard and painful. That constitutes choice. I had a way out to get ladies. I had to go through a painful treatment. It would be harder for me than for anybody else but was possible, and it was my choice.
However, I decided not to do. I did not want woman that hard. My career was more important, and I did not want to face more pain. This decision did not get me lady at first, but gave me peace. I was not paralyzed, no longer maladapted to the system of our species. I just had an unusual life plan that does not include finding a partner. Ironically, I went from incel to celibate.
That took women out of the pedestal that I put them when I was incel. I stopped seeing that the source for this relentless tension to be just people. Virginity no longer defined me.
A year has passed, and this peace eventually turned into confidence. I'm ok with myself, and my lonely choice. Then I saw a beautiful girl in my lab and asked her out. The hell, I thought, I'm okay with not getting any, it just a nice bonus. I was still nervous, but I made it. Now we're dating for two years.
#48
I just kinda realized that "involuntary" probably just meant that I was doing something wrong in my approach. Turns out I was just hanging with the wrong crowd and had screwed up standards. Well, not exactly screwed up, but not anything that was gonna be in my league. Also, it kinda helped to turn myself into someone who is worth pursuing instead of forever being the pursuer. Still haven't found my SO, but at least I've had better luck getting the occasional date.
#49
Realized I was the problem. Not that it helped me with women at all, I just stopped blaming them for the fact that I have nothing going for me as a person.
#50
I grew up.
Was a sorta terrible, incel-ey person during freshman year. Complained about the friend zone a lot. Etc, Etc.
Then over the past couple years, I realized how [toxic] that was and how to be a human interacting with humans.
#51
I came out of the closet, now I've been with my boyfriend going on five years now and we are engaged to be married.
#53
Former Incel here. 56 years old now, but didn't get laid until I was 21, which seemed like forever in the late 70's early 80's. It was supposed to be the era of "free love", but I was at a point of just not being able to see how it was going to happen. I did eventually get laid at 21 when my older brother sent his sister in law to my house to lay me. I knew her and we have a friendly relationship, so it was not so awkward. Also she was older than me, knew what to do, and handled the whole thing really great. It was a "nothing personal" lay and we never got serious, even though we were [friends with benefits] for about 6 months, until i moved away.
What I really wanted to say though is that a lot of guys don't get laid not just because of a lack of confidence, which is a big factor, but because they just have way too high of standards. Only 2-3% of women are really hot, but every guy wants one.
It's not hard to figure out that most guys are not going to end up with a hot chick, All those pretty women on the internet are seducing incels into believing there are a large number of beautiful women out there just waiting for them. But there are not. Those chicks are waiting for rich guys. That's the whole reason men want to be rich.
There are a lot of women out there that are not model gorgeous, but none the less still want all the same things that super pretty women want. They want to feel loved and appreciated.
If you continue to hold out for a super fine chick, most of you will continue to be incels. There are a few that will luck out and actually hood up with a fine chick. But it's rarer than winning the lottery.
That would be my advice. Plus, lowering your standards will give you more confidence as you won't feel inferior, like you would with a really attractive girl.
#54
At some point I just realized if I actually wanted a relationship, I'd be in one and that women women have standards just like me. Hell if I don't want myself, who would want me? Confidence plays a large role in this, and if you're as self depreciating as I am, you aren't going anywhere and you're only wasting your time. Basically it comes down to "It's all me, not you." Besides, I've been around for almost 21 years and I haven't made a whole lot of progress. That ship set sail a long time ago.
#55
Outsourced my online dating. Dumped my poisonous friends and family. Moved to another city.
#56
I suppose I was an incel from 23-27 after leaving the military. I was depressed, underweight, socially isolated... I never got fat or super into gaming as is stereotypical, just worked a lot, hung out with my dog, smoked way too much, and just sort of forgot how to interact with women. Which was probably for the best, most of my relationships prior to 23 were unhealthy at worst, meaningless at best.
Ending that era of my life was a long struggle that took concerted effort towards trying to be more positive and social.
One big event was buying and learning to ride a motorcycle at 27- sort of shocked me out of my routine, opened my eyes to the fact that life was not a downhill slide from the adrenaline filled days of 18-22, that new experiences were waiting to be had.
Eventually I met a woman that I just couldnt bear to have the usual "flirt until I awkwardly distance myself" experience with. I *forced* myself to not to my mind wander when we talked, I powered through all anxiety to call and text her daily, I even eventually would do crazy stuff like *get dressed up nice and go to dinner with her* -not something I could have ever seen myself doing at one point.
So I'm married now, still have some issues, but very happy. So I'd say nothing to me, just gotta live through it kid.
#57
I was a virgin at 20-21, there was some bitterness in my heart towards women.
I got on with working, playing rugby and not being fat and it turned around.
Learned to have a conversation, not just trying to chat someone up or show the world how super I was.
married, two children, doing ok.
#58
I despise that guy. He’s an embarrassment to me.
Somehow, it never occurred to me until I [slept with someone] that women are literally just normal people like you or I. They laugh, they swear, they fart, they even (gasp) *enjoy [intimacy]*!
#59
It's kind of a self fulfilling prophecy. You expect that you deserve a girlfriend (probably don't at that point because everyone starts out bumbling and inept, the girls too), then get rejected and are surprised and angry and hurt. So then you expect to get rejected and give off an angry, rejected vibe which kind of scares females (and maybe rightly so). That vibe keeps women away and you take it as further proof of your predicament.
It's a zen trick really. Once you are truly ok and content being alone, then you will be confident enough to give off the right vibe. You can take the risks necessary to find someone and take it more lightly because you are a less fragile person. It can't be faked and it's something others can practically smell. The cologne of anger and desperation doesn't smell good on anyone, male or female.
It also doesn't mean arrogance or fake bravado (which is that angry, desperate vibe in disguise). It comes with work on yourself, maturity and taking responsibility for your quality as a person.
#60
I grew up around them. I never got as bad as some of the worst examples on the internet though (this was decades ago, mind you)
I got lucky. I have some fortunate genetics meaning I got a lot of chances with women, which was lucky because there were rarely second dates. Eventually I figured out how to be charming, after a LOT of trial and error.
I don't hang out with my old Incel crowd anymore, we went different ways. They're still alone and lonely from what I see on Facebook. No one has any empathy for their struggle so they just learned to deal with the pain. People vilify them when they're already at the bottom with no way to climb out. They're genuinely nice guys, but if we're being honest they aren't attractive physically and can't go down the path I did.
#61
I was involuntarily celibate in that I wanted to have relationships, but never met anyone interested. I didn't put any effort in, so it was kinda my fault. My lifestyle just didn't lend itself to meeting people, so it was hard.
When I finally did get out there and start having relationships it was like a weight lifted off my shoulders. I realised that I had previously felt like an incomplete person because of my inability to connect with anyone, and that was holding me back from other things in life. Like I thought nothing else was worth pursuing because I hadn't properly entered adulthood yet. I kinda wish I'd just got on with it and persued my other interests a bit more. I don't know why I had to wait. Maybe it was depression relating to me being lonely.
Edit: thinking about it a bit more, I put off dating for a long time because I thought I had to have my life in order first, which was why I waited until I hit some other life milestones. Once I hit those, I realised I had no excuse and finally started online dating. First one ghosted me, which hit me pretty hard after doing something positive for myself. Second one we really hit it off, and that's when I turned into a different person. It's worth the effort.
What do you think ?
Disgruntled Panda 9 hours ago
Anyone who managed to get out of the incel rabbithole: congrats and absolute power to you. Still, it makes me incredibly sad that so many of these come down to treating someone better to get laid. Women are not objects or notches on bed posts.
Disgruntled Panda 9 hours ago
Anyone who managed to get out of the incel rabbithole: congrats and absolute power to you. Still, it makes me incredibly sad that so many of these come down to treating someone better to get laid. Women are not objects or notches on bed posts.
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