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Woman Suggests That A Female Joker Would Be A Convincing Character, And Men Lose Their Minds
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Ghostbusters, Oceans 8, Dr. Who – female reboots are a phenomenon that men continue to lose their minds over, even when said in jest. There are some hardcore women in the comic book world but what would happen if one of the more iconic male characters was a woman instead? Well, as one writer on Twitter discovered it would lead to some classic male outrage.
It all began when writer Geraldine DeRuite took to Twitter and proposed that The Joker from Batman should have been a woman, and tied in a joke about some classic misogyny. Most of the men missed the joke and instead spared no time voicing their horror.
This writer took to Twitter to suggest an alternate plot for a female The Joker from ‘Batman’
And men proceeded to lose their collective minds
Geraldine was unphased and continued to taunt her haters
So more upset men filled her thread with comments
The back and forth between the OP and commenters went on
And even developed into a deeper discussion beyond comic book characters
One man joined the discussion to point out that her ‘outrageous’ idea had, in fact, already been done in the Flashpoint comics
Not appreciating the mansplaining, she had some more fun and made a game out of the comments
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I have nothing against the possibility of a female joker, but we already have Harley, who, in my opinion, is much better. ♥
Indeed. This whole, "We can't have cool female characters unless they inherit a character that is a male," Thing seems like not so so
I hope (but probably will) I don't flack for this, but that's why I wasn't that keen on the all-female Ghostbusters reboot. I feel that there are plenty of stories that can be told with strong female leads (Hunger Games, just off the top of my head) without a taking previously told story (Ocean's, Ghostbusters, What Wo/Men Want) and simply swapping in women for men. It's almost like Hollywood is saying, "This was already popular; let's see if we can make money on it again, just with women." It feels like a disservice.
So guys, you realise that this was just an idle comment that got out of control by the haters? There are asshole men out there (not all men and not the majority of them) who, when women offer their opinion/ask an informed question about their work/turn in better work to their shared boss/quite frankly does anything better than them they can't take it. Most men don't mind, most men appreciate anyone with a brain weighing in, they appreciate healthy competition and so on. But there are some who are assholes and are convinced women should be below them. When a situation as above happens, they feel the need to reassert their feelings that women are below them. So, while a (friendly) compliment saying you look nice when you smile, or you smile more it suits you is never out of bounds, a douchebag talking down at you and then saying, you should just smile, or something similar is infuriating. Imagining yourself smacking a city full is harmless fantasy.
Valid point. Although, if we ever want equality, we are gonna have to stop looking at gender as something fundamental. I hope one day swapping the gender (or race, or sexual orientation, or ...) will be no more controversial than swapping the haircolour is today, because what matters is the individuality of the character.
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Harley is so much better than a female joker could be. Harley is complex yet seems simple. She is not a villain nor is she a hero nor a anti-hero she is something else.
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A walking boner factory
Can't agree more, Harley had some excellent development in the original cartoons and as a character got only more interesting as time went on. Joker is kind of stale compared to her.
Agreed. She's amazingly insane and stunning as well.
I agree. The whole time whilst reading this I thought, "Um, what about Harley?"
The Joker is like, meh, but Harley gives me the chills :))
Yes she is. I agree.
She's my hero. ^^
In fact, reading some official comics about her, she's not really a completely bad villain, sometimes she is the one to actually save the day. She's also very smart, but her fellow villains (including Joker) tend to underestimate her, except for Poison Ivy and Cat Woman. She's a very interesting character.
Yeah! It's more complex than she's simply crazy. She shows up with a big heart in a lot of situations, despite her emotions being heavily played upon by circumstance (not excusing her responsibility to make good decisions, but her character development has been pretty layered). And she's not above a good 'that's what she said' joke XD
@Jessica Russian Sifontes I would love to hear an explanation of your hate for Harley Quinn before I jump to conclusions, please explain.
so, if there's one (Harley), there doesn't need to be any more? An equal smattering of each would be nice...
This comment has been deleted.
Joke
Why does she have to be dressed like a whore, though?
I suppose my issue is with teenagers and young kids dressing up like her. She's not someone to emulate. I'm not talking about censorship. I'm talking about not turning women into objects.
Are your children too stupid to know the difference between a cartoon and real life?
1st - that depends on which comic you read. Her classic harlequin outfit has her completely covered. 2nd - showing a little bit of skin and sex appeal is not exclusive to "whores". In fact, sounds logical to me that professional prostitutes cover themselves too while they're not working. 3rd - she's a provocative sexy fictional character and a criminal lady. I don't wanna live in a world where all fiction is censored to death and all female characters need to look like nuns. Nothing wrong with nuns, but, you know, it's a specific uniform for women who chose to serve god.
I know, understand and share your concerns. But, see, when I was a kid, I knew the difference between fiction and reality, why some things are inappropriate, and I had solutions to "emulate" my favourite characters with more appropriate, yet still exuberant versions of their aesthetics. So, communication with your kids is the key, just learn their language. ^_-
This comment is hidden. Click here to view.
Harley represents a abussive relationship(very vey abussive one), thats why I don't like harley or joker. Maybe in future release of this two the guionist will make this disappear but, from now... Remember Joker pushing her down to the acid in Suicide squad.
Yep. But I also remember Harley coming after Joker, determined to kill him, after his plan to murder her miserably failed because she was smart enough to do something about that explosive rocket she was imprisoned within. I remember also when she gave herself in to Batman and the police to go back to prison and therapies, in an attempt to live a normal life, far from crime. I remember when she and Poison Ivy saved that little girl who was escaping her kidnapper, who misunderstood the two of them as super heroes because "they wear costumes". The point here is, she's not about ethics, she's an interesting character with lots of layers and an unusual personality. Suicide Squad (the film) was only a fraction of what she is.
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You think Harley is better? She's a horrible character imo. EDIT: You twats keep feeding me hate for not liking your stupid bitch psycho character, it makes me stronger! Keep it coming!
Woah, chill. People hand out downvotes like flyers here, I wouldn't take it too personally. And many people would appreciate if you didn't use the r-word.
And Jessica. You need to chill. Stop taking so personally. It's the internet.
Wait ... what's the r-word ?!? Am I missing something.
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Wow, negative points for saying I don't like a fictional character. Imagine if I started talking about my opinion on religion, abortion, and socialism, you retards would probably send someone to kill me then!
This is such a stupid thing to argue about. Why do people get so bent over someone's random alternate universe idea? Stuff like this is a dime a dozen in fandom. They should read more fanfiction, it might help to get the stick out of their ass. PS: OP should have ignored them imo. There's absolutely nothing to gain by arguing with these types.
I'm old enough to remember when the Internet was new. I also remember logging in with a mostly female name and within minutes receiving nasty sexual comments and nasty put-down comments for daring to log into a male world. Telling a woman may not seem hostile and isn't high on the scale, but it is condescending, patriarchal, and assumes that a woman's feelings should be dictated by what a man wants. When you encounter it enough times in your life the hostility becomes really obvious.
Hi elfin, thanks for that. I think that's this too. She probably just had a bad day/week with others (men who are also assholes, not all men or even a majority) and shared her private vengeance fantasy. All the guys with big mouths and insecurities went bonkers and she found a way to have fun with it. They didn't consider the difference between a friend(ly person) saying 'you should smile more' and a nasty person saying that but mostly implying that's all women are good for. And please everyone don't think I think all women are above reproach. Women can be awful too, but the smile thing is a male comment. Revenge fantasies where you get to smack all the assholes in a city are completely justified and honestly, creative.
yeah but sometimes laughing at the trolls is funny. some of us enjoy it...
Living is already so difficult occasionally you need breaks to laugh. I can totally see myself creating that bingo card for the sheer nonsense of it. #nonsenseisatypeofhumor #itsnotforeveryone #werealldifferentandthatsokay #dont@me
Completely totally agree. Lots of men just don't get it.
Wish I could upvote your comment 100x!! ^^
Exactly, there's no point to it...
Little incel bois are a bunch of crybaby whiners who are so scared of women that they'll attack anything we say, even if it is, as you say, something silly and trivial.
This comment is hidden. Click here to view.
Sure sexism is bad, i wont deny that. I also wont deny that sexism exists and there is no real way to completely eliminate it. Why do i believe this? because the only way the radical feminists and others like them seem to know how to 'attack the patriarchy' is by attacking men in general. These men in the comments for the most part arent attacking her directly, they are attacking her IDEA because its not a good idea. Politics and comics shouldnt be mixed, it almost never ends well for the book. they never said having a female villain in gotham was a bad idea, merely that the idea of this female joker that the OP had was a bad one. Now you can disagree and think the idea is fine, and thats fine. We can have a difference of opinion on the subject, and that is what these men had, a difference of opinion. Her problem is her inability to take criticism, and instead attack those criticising her idea.
This comment is hidden. Click here to view.
Mostly because 1) It's not a really good idea from the beginning, 2) It's already been done, just without the abundance of feministic "sexism is bad" being bashed into your head with it, and 3) her responses to some of the comments with stuff like "LOL Hurt Men's Feelings" (especially the ones that rightfully point out that a female Joker already exists) prove that she's not much better than the people she's making fun of, being a general troll and dismissing any legitimate criticism of her idea with bs strawman comments or switching to a different issue.
"Feministic "sexism is bad""? Are you saying sexism is not bad?
I enjoyed this so much. I must follow her on Twitter! lol
I just did! LOL!
I dont even use twitter but i want too now! Go geraldine! you dindt even flinch, the best...
I have nothing against the possibility of a female joker, but we already have Harley, who, in my opinion, is much better. ♥
Indeed. This whole, "We can't have cool female characters unless they inherit a character that is a male," Thing seems like not so so
I hope (but probably will) I don't flack for this, but that's why I wasn't that keen on the all-female Ghostbusters reboot. I feel that there are plenty of stories that can be told with strong female leads (Hunger Games, just off the top of my head) without a taking previously told story (Ocean's, Ghostbusters, What Wo/Men Want) and simply swapping in women for men. It's almost like Hollywood is saying, "This was already popular; let's see if we can make money on it again, just with women." It feels like a disservice.
So guys, you realise that this was just an idle comment that got out of control by the haters? There are asshole men out there (not all men and not the majority of them) who, when women offer their opinion/ask an informed question about their work/turn in better work to their shared boss/quite frankly does anything better than them they can't take it. Most men don't mind, most men appreciate anyone with a brain weighing in, they appreciate healthy competition and so on. But there are some who are assholes and are convinced women should be below them. When a situation as above happens, they feel the need to reassert their feelings that women are below them. So, while a (friendly) compliment saying you look nice when you smile, or you smile more it suits you is never out of bounds, a douchebag talking down at you and then saying, you should just smile, or something similar is infuriating. Imagining yourself smacking a city full is harmless fantasy.
Valid point. Although, if we ever want equality, we are gonna have to stop looking at gender as something fundamental. I hope one day swapping the gender (or race, or sexual orientation, or ...) will be no more controversial than swapping the haircolour is today, because what matters is the individuality of the character.
This comment is hidden. Click here to view.
This comment has been deleted.
Harley is so much better than a female joker could be. Harley is complex yet seems simple. She is not a villain nor is she a hero nor a anti-hero she is something else.
This comment is hidden. Click here to view.
A walking boner factory
Can't agree more, Harley had some excellent development in the original cartoons and as a character got only more interesting as time went on. Joker is kind of stale compared to her.
Agreed. She's amazingly insane and stunning as well.
I agree. The whole time whilst reading this I thought, "Um, what about Harley?"
The Joker is like, meh, but Harley gives me the chills :))
Yes she is. I agree.
She's my hero. ^^
In fact, reading some official comics about her, she's not really a completely bad villain, sometimes she is the one to actually save the day. She's also very smart, but her fellow villains (including Joker) tend to underestimate her, except for Poison Ivy and Cat Woman. She's a very interesting character.
Yeah! It's more complex than she's simply crazy. She shows up with a big heart in a lot of situations, despite her emotions being heavily played upon by circumstance (not excusing her responsibility to make good decisions, but her character development has been pretty layered). And she's not above a good 'that's what she said' joke XD
@Jessica Russian Sifontes I would love to hear an explanation of your hate for Harley Quinn before I jump to conclusions, please explain.
so, if there's one (Harley), there doesn't need to be any more? An equal smattering of each would be nice...
This comment has been deleted.
Joke
Why does she have to be dressed like a whore, though?
I suppose my issue is with teenagers and young kids dressing up like her. She's not someone to emulate. I'm not talking about censorship. I'm talking about not turning women into objects.
Are your children too stupid to know the difference between a cartoon and real life?
1st - that depends on which comic you read. Her classic harlequin outfit has her completely covered. 2nd - showing a little bit of skin and sex appeal is not exclusive to "whores". In fact, sounds logical to me that professional prostitutes cover themselves too while they're not working. 3rd - she's a provocative sexy fictional character and a criminal lady. I don't wanna live in a world where all fiction is censored to death and all female characters need to look like nuns. Nothing wrong with nuns, but, you know, it's a specific uniform for women who chose to serve god.
I know, understand and share your concerns. But, see, when I was a kid, I knew the difference between fiction and reality, why some things are inappropriate, and I had solutions to "emulate" my favourite characters with more appropriate, yet still exuberant versions of their aesthetics. So, communication with your kids is the key, just learn their language. ^_-
This comment is hidden. Click here to view.
Harley represents a abussive relationship(very vey abussive one), thats why I don't like harley or joker. Maybe in future release of this two the guionist will make this disappear but, from now... Remember Joker pushing her down to the acid in Suicide squad.
Yep. But I also remember Harley coming after Joker, determined to kill him, after his plan to murder her miserably failed because she was smart enough to do something about that explosive rocket she was imprisoned within. I remember also when she gave herself in to Batman and the police to go back to prison and therapies, in an attempt to live a normal life, far from crime. I remember when she and Poison Ivy saved that little girl who was escaping her kidnapper, who misunderstood the two of them as super heroes because "they wear costumes". The point here is, she's not about ethics, she's an interesting character with lots of layers and an unusual personality. Suicide Squad (the film) was only a fraction of what she is.
This comment is hidden. Click here to view.
You think Harley is better? She's a horrible character imo. EDIT: You twats keep feeding me hate for not liking your stupid bitch psycho character, it makes me stronger! Keep it coming!
Woah, chill. People hand out downvotes like flyers here, I wouldn't take it too personally. And many people would appreciate if you didn't use the r-word.
And Jessica. You need to chill. Stop taking so personally. It's the internet.
Wait ... what's the r-word ?!? Am I missing something.
This comment is hidden. Click here to view.
Wow, negative points for saying I don't like a fictional character. Imagine if I started talking about my opinion on religion, abortion, and socialism, you retards would probably send someone to kill me then!
This is such a stupid thing to argue about. Why do people get so bent over someone's random alternate universe idea? Stuff like this is a dime a dozen in fandom. They should read more fanfiction, it might help to get the stick out of their ass. PS: OP should have ignored them imo. There's absolutely nothing to gain by arguing with these types.
I'm old enough to remember when the Internet was new. I also remember logging in with a mostly female name and within minutes receiving nasty sexual comments and nasty put-down comments for daring to log into a male world. Telling a woman may not seem hostile and isn't high on the scale, but it is condescending, patriarchal, and assumes that a woman's feelings should be dictated by what a man wants. When you encounter it enough times in your life the hostility becomes really obvious.
Hi elfin, thanks for that. I think that's this too. She probably just had a bad day/week with others (men who are also assholes, not all men or even a majority) and shared her private vengeance fantasy. All the guys with big mouths and insecurities went bonkers and she found a way to have fun with it. They didn't consider the difference between a friend(ly person) saying 'you should smile more' and a nasty person saying that but mostly implying that's all women are good for. And please everyone don't think I think all women are above reproach. Women can be awful too, but the smile thing is a male comment. Revenge fantasies where you get to smack all the assholes in a city are completely justified and honestly, creative.
yeah but sometimes laughing at the trolls is funny. some of us enjoy it...
Living is already so difficult occasionally you need breaks to laugh. I can totally see myself creating that bingo card for the sheer nonsense of it. #nonsenseisatypeofhumor #itsnotforeveryone #werealldifferentandthatsokay #dont@me
Completely totally agree. Lots of men just don't get it.
Wish I could upvote your comment 100x!! ^^
Exactly, there's no point to it...
Little incel bois are a bunch of crybaby whiners who are so scared of women that they'll attack anything we say, even if it is, as you say, something silly and trivial.
This comment is hidden. Click here to view.
Sure sexism is bad, i wont deny that. I also wont deny that sexism exists and there is no real way to completely eliminate it. Why do i believe this? because the only way the radical feminists and others like them seem to know how to 'attack the patriarchy' is by attacking men in general. These men in the comments for the most part arent attacking her directly, they are attacking her IDEA because its not a good idea. Politics and comics shouldnt be mixed, it almost never ends well for the book. they never said having a female villain in gotham was a bad idea, merely that the idea of this female joker that the OP had was a bad one. Now you can disagree and think the idea is fine, and thats fine. We can have a difference of opinion on the subject, and that is what these men had, a difference of opinion. Her problem is her inability to take criticism, and instead attack those criticising her idea.
This comment is hidden. Click here to view.
Mostly because 1) It's not a really good idea from the beginning, 2) It's already been done, just without the abundance of feministic "sexism is bad" being bashed into your head with it, and 3) her responses to some of the comments with stuff like "LOL Hurt Men's Feelings" (especially the ones that rightfully point out that a female Joker already exists) prove that she's not much better than the people she's making fun of, being a general troll and dismissing any legitimate criticism of her idea with bs strawman comments or switching to a different issue.
"Feministic "sexism is bad""? Are you saying sexism is not bad?
I enjoyed this so much. I must follow her on Twitter! lol
I just did! LOL!
I dont even use twitter but i want too now! Go geraldine! you dindt even flinch, the best...