Daughter Wonders If She’s A Jerk For Ruining Her Birthday Party Because She Didn’t Get Great-Grandfather’s Pocket-Watch
Interview
Passing on an heirloom is a delicate little gesture. It can become a symbol of continuity and you can continue to cherish the stories ingrained in the ancient paraphernalia. Most importantly — it shows that you are the one remembered by an heirloom. But what if you aren’t the one who was chosen to pick up the invaluable, cherished possession passed from generation to generation? What if the only reason for that is the extra X chromosome you got?
As this 20-year-old tells in her story, for her birthday, the only gift she did expect was the precious heirloom pocket-watch that was handed from generation to generation like some sort of prized baton. Her dear father received it from his old man, and he did from his. Something right up Hemingway‘s alley.
Naturally, devastation followed as soon as the birthday girl learned the real reason why she was not included in this gendered tradition. Worried about whether her disappointment had ruined the party and soured her relationship with her dad, the author of the story turned to the trusted ‘Am I The [Jerk]‘ community to seek some perspective.
Heirlooms are an important part of family tradition and there’s an insurmountable responsibility attached to them
Image credits: Pierre Bamin (not the actual photo)
As of recently, the importance of being passed down your great-great grandmother’s family quilt has reduced. There are a handful of articles claiming that our forefathers struggle with their cherished possessions (now called simply ‘junk’) as millennials reject this time-worn tradition because of their downsizing tendencies.
Still, for those who do look forward to connecting with the generations they have never met — 1-in-4, for example, expecting to inherit the rusty family watch, as New York Post’s survey has found — there are multiple factors to consider before an heirloom causes a major family fallout.
“There are timeless issues regarding passing down a cherished family possession,” Bored Panda is told by Marlene S. Stum, Ph.D. professor at the University of Minnesota and the author of the research-based program ‘Who Gets Grandma’s Yellow Pie Plate?‘. “Whether you’re a biological child or a stepchild — there are many different family configurations. And so there’s always gonna be issues around who is family and how to do it fairly.”
Marlene explains the program was created in the late ’90s when there was little to no information about passing on family possessions. And what was usually suggested was “dividing things equally among heirs” as if every heirloom and every family was the same, she says. “We quickly learned that there were some major gaps both in the research and educational resources. So we started doing our own research to find out what did and didn’t work or what were some of the common issues, particularly around fairness,” Marlene said.
And sometimes these traditions can cause more harm than joy because of their antiquated expectations
The author filled in the missing gaps in her story
So how should one divvy up an heirloom without leaving anyone disappointed? Well, according to Marlene, it all comes down to trying to be fair. “Let’s say a treasured family watch gets transferred to the oldest son generation after generation. And you’re the oldest son and you just learned that your dad passed that same watch to his favorite son-in-law. What’s the message there?”
The point of this example, she says, is to show that each family has different rules and expectations. And the only way to figure out what will be considered fair between your family simply comes down to talking. “People are often surprised to learn that certain family members either aren’t interested or don’t know why they should be interested in the first place,” Marlene pointed out. “Again, it goes down to not making assumptions that everyone should [equally] cherish everything one had and desired the same way years before — there are other ways to carry on stories and family traditions that don’t have to involve a room full of things.”
Another suggestion that should make one’s life easier when deciding who should get grandmother’s precious china comes down to realizing who is family, without picking any favorites. “For some people, it’s really important to keep things in the family,” she said. “I’ve heard examples of people who were not giving things to their only daughter because they knew she’s going to get a divorce. And they didn’t want prized possessions to leave the family.” Sounds like a familiar scenario, right?
People agreed that it was low of her father to continue this quintessentially male-only tradition
Similar to Marlene, Dr. Carl Pickhardt, Ph.D. an Austin-based parenting psychologist believes there’s a lot to ‘unpackage’ when it comes to inheritances and cherished heirlooms. He says that family possessions by nature carry a sense of unfairness that can make things worse when there are multiple possible beneficiaries.
“When feelings of unfairness between (rival) children are already in place, inheritance differences can be seen to illustrate who was favored, and thus a falling out can occur,” Pickhardt explained, adding that differences in parental treatment also can enhance this ‘illusion’. When it comes to children, he argues, it’s usually “whoever gets a favored object will feel favored and those who don’t — favored less.”
But as Marlene reminds us, each family means different rules and complications. “People will always have a different approach to figuring out what fair means to them,” Marlene said. “And the best way to achieve that, of course, is to get input from the family.”
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Funny how a girl getting married is no longer part of the family, but a boy is? I as male left my home country, married my soulmate and took her surname. 🤷♂️
It‘s all about the family name I suppose. Or he really thinks women are „less then“
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Does he realize that her children will be his grandchildren, but her brother's... well, let's just say that when it comes to those things can get kind of tricky?
Your father didn’t give the watch because you don’t have a penis. He then made it your fault so he didn’t have to feel guilty.
Jees, this is so old fashioned. Will the father be choosing the husband as well??? Did he not realize the watch would go to a woman the moment she was born? Misogynistic twat.
As a person who is NOT the first born, I will say the first-born traditions kind of suck. I can't tell you how many times I was overlooked, and my older sister favored with things like jewelry and other inherited items, because of our birth order. What if the OP's sibling had been another girl, instead of a boy? Wouldn't it be unfair to that younger sister if OP got the watch? It just seems so arbitrary and unfair.
" This came as a blow since I've always been closer to my dad than my brother was and my brother isn't even interested in the watch like I have been my whole life. " The younger sibling wasn't interested at all. The father KNEW that she wanted and expected that watch, so him giving her this modern watch in some attempt to 'make up for it' is just a slap in the face. It's just about sexism. If he never intended to give it to her, he should have told her much sooner. It's not just about tradition, it's about giving it to the child who actually wants it and won't just päwn it off when they want some quick cash. I'm also the second-born, btw. (apparently päwn is a bad word now according to BP)
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NTA. Her father is sexist a-hole.. And how exactly would watch "leave the family"? Married daughter and her children are not family? He basically said he sees his daughter as lesser than his son and not important enough to fit his "family" concept.
And this is what I was confused about. How exactly does it leave the family with the daughter? Her first born would get it and so on. It's b******t and the women in the family should be firmly behind her on this. Hell, the men in the family should be firmly behind her on this.
Load More Replies... Yikes. So much yikes. If this is how that stingy old man treats his own daughter, I don't want to see how he treats other people who aren't related to him.
I'm so sorry, OP. I know what it feels like to be less than, just because I'm a girl. I understand why you are upset and you are right to be. This was incredibly sexist and demeaning. And for your father to try and turn your upset against you is disgusting. In my family, we have an antique collection of doll furniture that goes around the family, always to the girls. Maybe you could negotiate and say, hey, if I don't get married or my brother has a son before me, I'll give the watch to them? Otherwise, your only hope is that your brother will give it to you eventually... Just make sure that if you do end up having a family of your own, you choose a partner who will always treat your daughter the same way he's treating your son. It's a cringe conversation to have with potential partners, but depending on your culture, it's a very important one.
What's a fun Way for the watch to leave the family? If the son who has no attachment to the watch what so ever, pawns it off for a quick buck.
Her dad is an insensitive sexist jerk. So much for the tradition. So when a woman gets married she stops being part of her family? Since when? I got married and am still a member of my original family. Frankly, unless the dad apologizes, she should avoid him.
Pretty much up until the industrial revolution, I think. At least in the States. It was expected for the woman to move in with her new husband and his family after the wedding until he could build or buy a new house himself. And that was only in the case of very large families, a couple who only had one son may have expected him, his wife, and his kids to live with them to take care of them when they were too old to take care of themselves.
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Is a mom in the picture here? If so, what does she think? There is the old saying that completely counters the father's opinion. "A son is a son 'til he takes him a wife. A daughter's a daughter all of her life"
My mother had what i called THE BIG PENNY it was basically a war medal from Poland that was given to the family of the fallen soldiers ( didnt know this at the time i was 10 ) i always wanted it as i was obsessed by what it was ( treasure in my mind) and how i would decipher the strange language on it( Polish ) and i would find missing treasure , anyway i moved out at 18 , when my mum became ill with cancer i asked about the medal and she actually though id already took it , i never , when i cleaned her house i never found it , i can only assume one of my brothers took it and said nothing
Definitely NTA. That's completely horrible that your father is excluding you from a tradition just because you're a female. Especially since you've showed interest in it. I can't believe he let you believe you would get it for so long, it isn't cool.
Dad's the a*****e....not only for the blatant sexism toward his own daughter, but if it was always intention to give the watch to her brother then why has he fanned the flames all these years about the f*****g watch to her? He's the one that's set her up for a huge emotional fall
I wonder what the father would have done if he had ended up with two daughters and no son. Where would the watch go then?
Men are women before they're born (Its true, look it up). NTA if my father said that to me i would not speak to him for a long time.
I think what you were trying to say is that in the womb everything starts off female and depending on the hormones, some fetuses take on secondery sexual characteristics, also more proof that at one point some of them were both genders, gender fluidity is a natural thing in nature
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She says this is tradition, but the watch has only been passed for 2 generations (grandfather and father, OP being the 3rd but didn't receive it yet), not long enough of a tradition to not have the "rules" changed. A long conversation is needed in the family.
I thought it was weird that it's only passed through two generations but it's suppose to be from when we were a British colony America is just under 250 years old. She's the first born of her father. So her great grandfather had the watch and gave it to her grandfather at 20, who gave it to her father, and she's just now 20. Is that really long enough? I mean I'm 39, and I knew my great grandmother when I was 6 years old. She lived to be in her upper 80s but she certainly wasn't alive prior to the revolutionary war. I would think MOST of our great grandparents were at the most from the right around 1900. Not 1776.
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Feel this. At around 10 or so my father drove me to see the house my great-grandfather had built. Dad went on about how sad it was that a cousin, and no direct descendants, were living in it. I was then told that because my mother divorced him (my father) that I was only related to the family in name and, therefore, invalid to ever live there. Thanks dad.
The father should have made it clear from the first time he told the story that the watch goes to the first-born son. The watch isn't the one the OP wanted, and she does not like it, so she should return it to wherever the father bought it for cash. The father does not think much of her because she is a girl and says she will leave his family when she gets married. This means he will no longer consider her part of his family when she is married. She should get a job asap if she doesn't have one, because he might not have planned to provide for her in the future at all (expecting her future husband to instead). She needs to be prepared for future curve balls like this and take control of her life.
What if the son ends up being gay? Not that anything is wrong with it...but in the dad's eye's, what is worse? A son married to a man with adopted children or his first born daughter that had believed and wanted to just be seen as an equal in their traditions?...hmm not that big of a choice now is it dad??
This is just so sad. We have multiple heirlooms that are precious to my family. I'm supposed to get a charm bracelet that my great grandmother has been passing down . Now I think my mom is just planning on keeping it until she dies herself and never let me wear it. She keeps it in a box. Never sees the light of day.
Isnt' it true that the father is breaking the whole "tradition" anyway by choosing not to give the watch to the first born? He knew that she was expecting to be included in this ritual and was totally honored by the idea, yet he chose not to have a conversation with her before that moment!!......whaaat? I nstead it happened in front of everyone (!!) On her birthday!!
What a great way for the watch to leave the family? If the son who has no interest or attachment to the watch just see it an antique worth a few bucks at the local p**n shop.
Someone, anyone, care to explain how in this (pick your own gender) world, it is still expected that any children born should automatically have the surname of the father? What kind of misogynistic manure is that?
It's that classic only the men carry the name because women are possessions misogyny. And really poor timing to remind his daughter of that additude. I agree with another comment that the girl should definitely look into her personal finances because it's a good bet her father is assuming she will get "married off".
Tragic and cruel. Be angry. This is an injustice. Rise above it.
Profoundly hurtful behaviour on part of father. I'm so sorry for this young woman.
This is bringing back Trauma. When my Nana died my Papa sold EVERYTHING he could get money for. I literally had to have a fit because he was trying to sell my great grandmother's Mink Stole and HAD sold my mother's rabbit coat. I did get the mink back, but all of her jewelry, and any other furs she had, are gone now. I was supposed to inherit that, but he decided it was his and sold it.
My brother is the only male grandchild on my father's side. He is not sentimental, and does not remember my grandfather. I asked my grandmother for some trophies and mementos. She was surprised that a girl would want them, but I think she was pleased that someone actively sought them
The biggest ‘heirloom’ in my family was my paternal grandmothers now 100 year old fine china. It was used for all big family holiday meals. It went to my aunt. After she passed, I took it because nobody else in the family wanted it. But my favorite memories of grandma were using it for tea parties in her apartment. Where I learned how to swim. None of the kids or grandkids wanted it. And I married twice with no kids. It is getting sold when I go. 100+ year-old china should pay for my cremation.
The title is misleading and makes her look like a spoiled and entitled jerk please change it staff
This is rediculous. Why he never told you how he felt about the tradition. Your the one who cares about the tradition. Your the oldest. It should have been yours. Your father knee you expected it. He tried to bribe you with the apple watch. He is the A. Write out how you feel about the situation. Mail him the letter. See if he reaches out to apologize and give you your inheritance.
This is so dumb. She won't continue the family name, she'll take the last name of the man she married (if she even marries) either way the children will have the father's name which will NOT be the family name. It rightfully should go to a man who will continue the family name. How stupid do you have to be smh. Y'all will literally create an issue where there isn't one just to say "man bad woman good" and frankly I'm sick of it. Grow up. Men and women are different and neither is inherently superior to the other. Stop being a bunch of man hating sexists and get over it.
I don’t think she’s wrong.. I would have walked out after he made the comment even if I was a boy he would not have given it to me.. if that’s the case the story should have went the first born male.. but since that was never said.. you should have got the watch.. and he owes you an apology .. just my two cents
I would never speak to him again!! I'm a petty person but sexism is ridiculous!!
I am the queen of cutting off bad/toxic relationships and it has saved me so much headache and heartache. I started with my biological mother. I swear my life is so full and boring without her around and I enjoy every moment of it. I had the most amazing dad in the world and would never have behaved badly and would never do anything like OP's "father" did to her. We were incredibly close. He passed away 39 years ago when I was 13 and it still feels just as painful. Had he heard another "man" utter anything like this "dad" did he would have flipped his lid and the Marine in him would have come out. OP's "dad" deserves to be cut off.
Some of us women never get married. I wonder how the father would feel if she decides to not marry. And what would happen if he only had daughters?
Been there ... When my brother started driving, our grandfather bought him a NEW car. When my sister started driving, he bought her a second-hand car of her choice. When I started driving, I was handed a savings account containing a $10 deposit. Family? Tradition?
Pretty sure she knew this was an eldest son thing, and pitched this fit to pitch a fit. If she didn't know it was an eldest son thing, then she wouldn't have had to drop hints about it and subtly say she wanted it: she would have just assumed she'd receive it. Dads and sons are allowed to have special bonds and traditions just for them without it being backwards and evil, and she was included by getting a watch for her 20th, though not the one she wanted. All this accomplished was making her father like her less.
Poor girl. Hope she shows him the responses and gets the watch.
It's not a fixed tradition if it was the great grandfather's watch, that means it's only been passed down twice so far. I think the more upsetting aspect is the OP's father saying it would leave the family if it went to her. Seriously, what is this fixation about only the "male bloodline"? It's not even a scientific view. We have 2 parents, 4 grand parents, 8 great grandparents and so on, all of whom can contribute to our DNA. I feel sorry for the OP about her Father's attitude much more than the "tradition"
People won't like my answer but, yes, you ATA. You're only upset because you wanted something and didn't get it. You became even more upset when you found out it was going to someone else. Is there a law or written rule that says that the 1st born child is to get the watch? He can give that watch to whomever he wants to or nobody at all. You're only upset because you wanted it. What if it was something you didn't want? You have no use for it and probably have no desire to own it. Would you still be upset? Probably not. As with all things on life, hope for the best, plan for the worst, and make the best of what you get. The more mature and better way to handle this would be to wait until later, talk privately with your dad without the theatrics and waterworks. Explain how much you wanted the watch and why. At the same time, ensure him that you're appreciative of the other gifts. This won't guarantee you the watch but might change his mind and you'll maintain your relationship with y dad
imagine if the brother DOES get the watch and then just hands it to op anyway lol
She could negotiate and still retain her surname when she gets married. Or not marry but get pregnant from a sperm bank at least her grandfather’s bloodline and last name will still be preserved to her 1st born son and to his 1st born son. There are loopholes in Traditions without breaking them. The tradition wants the last name to be with passed on to the next.
Biology course needed for writers. Women didn't "get an extra chromosome". The Y in males is a broken X.
Women don't get an "extra X chromosome" dummy. Fact: Women are the 1st sex. All fetuses begin female. Fetuses that do "get an extra chromosome, get a Y". Procreation demanded adaptation, thus XY. Male penis evolved from the clitoris to suit the vagina. The Y chromosome is a broken X. Females are complete.
Seriously, a 10 minute conversation would have at least spared the scene at restaurant. It was traumatic for you but to say that in front of your friends. No!!! Nobody should think less of you. Definitely NTA. If you're brother doesn't care why not you. Has your mom slapped him upside the head
Totally NTA. I'm a male but also not the first born and I totally get her feelings. My older sister is even adopted and I get the tradition and I think it should rightfully go to her. I would be equally upset if I were in her position and I think this would definitely effect my relationship with the family. I had a similar experience with some coins (that weren't worth anything) from my grandmother but sold because they could not be "evenly" distributed amongst family. So I feel for the storyteller.
I cannot believe this guys are such jerks I understand why about half the girls in the US are gay. 😂
So many, shortsightedly, repeat this girl is "no longer part of her family" when she marries. That's preposterous! She will always be part of her family. However, when she marries, she'll take her husband's surname, and so will her children, and further generations away, no first-born heir would carry the grandfather's surname. If I understood correctly, her dad inherited the watch. Now that watch is his to do with as HE pleases - and he pleases to give it to his son, who doesn't care about the watch, but carries forward the name. Dad's choice. I get that it's disappointing to have believed you were entitled to inherit, due to birth order, but the watch is your dad's to give, and knowing you wanted it, he gave you a fitting substitute! Do not be mad or dishonor your father. Who knows, maybe your brother will be childless and your child will inherit. I don't think u r an a**e for having feelings, but do not kill your relationship w yr dad over it. Ask him to leave you something else!!!
Dad can do what ever he wants with that watch, it's his. It's been passed down through the fist born male, PERIOD. IT IS WHAT IT IS! So the daughter can start her own family heirloom, to the first born female.
I have a very simple solution that Ops father would probably accept but Op herself, and certainly, her future husband may not and if that's the case. Op needs to back off. My solution? Op needs to agree firstly, to NOT take her future husband's name in marriage. Secondly, Op must agree that her firstborn child will have her surname and NOT that of the father. If Op agrees, then this needs to be put in a legally binding contract by an attorney with the stipulation that if Op later defaults on the agreement for any reason, the watch is to be returned to her father.
wow this is so f-d up! first of all why to have such a tradition. it makes the second born feel as something less just because of the order of birth. if you dont have enough heirlooms for each of the kids dont make such a tradition. second of course she should have got the watch. we are no longer in the middle ages she is tge first born. for those saying she wont wear it as it is a mens accessory...who wears a pocket watch these days anyway? if it is so precious everyday wearing would make it possible to get lost or damaged the watch will stay in its box anyway. her brother may never marry, he may have just daughters or he may keep wifes name. the name will eventually change anyway. why would father talk about this big tradition of first borns to her if he chose to exclude her is beyond me. he should have said at the beggining it would go to the first son only which is still sexist a f. NTA and the father is TA
She has no claim to the watch. It's the dad's watch and he can give it anyone he wants. What if the son feels as though he should get watch?
Opposite. I’m the eldest by 13 minutes. My twin brother chucked a spit.
Of course this is blatantly sexist. If you do not honor a family tradition, it is not a tradition at all.
As the firstborn [woman] in our immediate family, we get treated the same. The boys/men receive "higher" strata, however, we were made to understand that this is a very old tradition we must honour; which none of us offended by it. Not everything is about "gender sexism", sometimes it's about respect and being honourable. I may live in Canada, but am not "westernized" as others would think. I honestly don't agree with the culture in Canada or USA. Zero respect in almost everything and only care about themselves and their "postulation" of "modern living". We have the same tradition, the first boy in the family is whom will get the family heirloom of a vintage Patek Philippe. Being a woman myself, obviously, I didn't get THE watch. But they allow me to pick and purchase a newer watch from the same brand. Point is, OP NTA but grow up, not everything is about you.
PS. Yes majority of the women in our family have higher education and career rather than the men. Which means they don't oppose in gender equality and very supportive of women independency. So, no, not everything is about sexism, there are many other factors play into it.
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EAH-father should give it to you regardless of the fact that you are a female because you are the first born. Just because your child will have a different last name, it'll still follow the bloodline. That's why he's an AH. However that discussion should take place later than having a tantrum in front of the family and friends who showed up to celebrate your birthday. At your age I understand though. Eventually you will gain the maturity to keep your emotions in check.
I'm sorry, but I don't see how this thing that happened once is suddenly a tradition? It was her grandfather's watch, then he would have passed it along to his son (who is her father, and the current possesser of the watch) and that's it. Where is the "it has always been passed down to a male"? Unless it gets passed around by the cousins, too....but then what if one cousin is born within days of the other? Does it get passed to him days after the first one turned 20?
Some traditions are traditions.. Like passing it to your son.. I know it's jacked up but that is what it is.. How can people judge him.. It was originally passed from son to son to son correct?? He should have just told her right out the gate as a kid.. But to bash tradition is stupid.. Just because everyone thinks they are perfect and woke now doesn't make people's traditions wrong.. I have my grandfather's watch.. it was passed to my dad then me.. Guess what my daughter was born first but my son will get the watch.. it's a pocket watch as well.. Will my daughter get something?? Yes from my grandmother's collection I got from my mother that was passed down to first born which was me.. These are all traditions are ancestors started not us.. If we don't want to follow it it's a slap in there faces.. Stop telling people they have to fit in your box or there evil.. This dad is an a*****e but the tradition is not..
Well I had something like that happen to me. It's crazy that he did that and most people would've went off instead of leaving. Anyone who doesn't get her emotions need to get a heart. And think about how they would feel if they was in her shoes.
I won't but into family matters of long standing traditions. Not really my place. But I DO think it's extremely odd that the father didn't tell her she wasn't to receive the watch prior to the birthday party. I mean, he'd obviously told her about the tradition, right? I mean, someone definitely did. So he (probably, I will not pretend to KNOW) knew she wanted the heirloom but intended not to give it to her, fine. But why leave the question in her mind up until the disappointment in front of all her family and friends. That doesn't make sense. To me, there's only two ways this makes sense: one, dad really didn't pick up the hints or 2, dad was hoping she'd say nothing for fear of making a scene. But even still, 2 doesn't make a lot of sense cause she'd obviously still bring it up later. Is it possible that maybe he'd already mentioned that it's an heirloom for the men only and she didn't hear it? This story feels like something is missing.
It only belongs to her or her brother when it is given. Anyway, it's the father's watch. Even if Dad could have honestly explained his intention sooner, someone else can't think of it. Hinting in for a year that you want that watch is more greedy in my eyes than respecting the first owner. Because that's what it's all about, the great-grandfather.
How is she being greedy for wanting to be apart of a family tradition? She wasn't planning on getting cash for the watch. She just thought it was special to inherit something deemed important to her family.
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I'm sure that I'm not the only person who believes MOST of what goes viral on AITA is made up fiction. I'm assuming this story is from outside of the United States, because the revolutionary war was won back in 1776 and there's no way that her great grandfather was alive at that time. Anyway, I don't think anyone is entitled to an heirloom. I think they're best handed down by the person who is doing the handing, as the responsibility of those items is extreme. Some kids are not as responsible then others even into adulthood and keeping the heirloom to pass down is pretty important. I think it's a bit indignant to assume that you.are entitled to anything, ever. My parents struggled financially and gave me and my siblings very little growing up, yet I've never disrespected like this woman did here, by walking out on them in public and being ungrateful for what was given. she should have vented her frustrations, but there's a time and place. Her choice here was childish and unbecoming.
Actually her great grandfather could have been alive, it’s her great grandfather; it’s possible. As far as disrespect no, her Father was wrong in how he approached the situation. He was aware of how interested, involved she was with the heirloom and the history of the family. Why would he get a watch as a present? That’s a slap in the face when tradition is the first born inherits the heirloom? It’s called having emotions and being human. She admitted she could have handled it better but it was upsetting. Your environment is different from hers. Her father set her up plain and simple. It was wrong. It’s not entitlement. His statements were biased and repressive. That’s hurtful especially if you feel you have a close relationship. The stories are not fiction. Stop
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Wow people in the comments really making it about sexist its not that deep as far as I'm concerned who ever bought the watch gets to make whatever rule he or she wants with it disappointed in you people that y'all are going after the father and not a the rule/ generation BS
It's because the father is being a sexist POS and calling her "temporary family" because she's a woman, also he lead her on for years making her believe she would get the watch
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I understand OP's feelings of hurt in this situation but I also can feel the concern the father has for this item. People keep saying a name is just a name but apparently it's not too people like this family, they are obviously very proud of their past. If she gets the watch and so does marry and takes the husbands name there is a chance after a generation or two that they will forget or care less about her maiden names ancestry. I personally have a bunch of heirlooms from my family and they are tied to many last names but I also have first hand experience seeing how people in my immediate family now care more for the items that they feel are more linked to their immediate blood line and that's our last name. So from my experience I can see the fathers concern but that does not justify how he treated his daughter. Imo all this could have been avoided by a simple conversation and open dialogue.
Well OP already said how her brother never actually cared about the watch so having it given to him he may not even care to explain the meaning to any possible kids he has if he never cared for it. Along with the dad assuming that his daughter couldn't possibly keep the family name when marrying, she could if her partner is also fine with it, along with the fact he's assuming his son will keep the family name and not change it to his possible partner's name. It's blatant sexism without even truly communicating.
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This is b******t and were right for leaving. That really sucks. I hope he gets it together and gives you the watch.
Classic case of incorrect conclusion based on a small sample size. She stated it has been the first born and until now the first born has always been male. Her observation that it goes to the first born child on their 20th and her father's observation that it goes to the first born male child on their 20th both are consistent with the data
Well the father never mentioned it only went to male children, and after hearing his reasonings for not wanting to give it to his own first born, of course she would be upset that he has such sexist reasonings to not let her get the watch she cared so much about.
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Okay but in my family there are 3rings representing grand mother, mother and daughter...if I have a son should I give him a girls ring? Traditions are called that because they do not change TAH
But that tradition specifies gender. This one seems to just be first-born, not specifically first-born male.
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A pocketwatch is a man's accessory. The daughter would have a case if this was a ring or brooch or necklace. Function trumps fetish.
I REALLY hate saying this but....neither her nor her father are the a*****e...British colonizers means likely a country that still either traditionally or legally gives property of the wife to the husband. So she is valid to be hurt but he is not wrong in that their heirloom would become her husband's family's heirloom, and even if they divorced she would not get it back.
He saw it as a father-son tradition. She saw it as a first-born tradition. The watch has only changed owner twice...
This is ridiculous women pass heirlooms to daughters that they would never give to their sons like a wedding dress or a ring or something feminine. And the watch has been passed to the men of the family I would have given the watch to my daughter but this guy didn't. That does not mean that he does not love and cherish his daughter but we also can't ignore two thousand years of human behavior women to this day get married and change there name that was and is how it works in most cases maybe her mother should have had something equally special or start a new tradition instead of letting semantic distroy there family and live for eachother
You actually inherit you mother's mitochondrial DNA, therefore you are always more your mother's child than your father's.
You are the A-hole because. You are not owed the watch. Just because previous generations did something does not obligate future generations to follow. He could throw the watch in the trash if he wished.
Continued. But not storming out during her birthday party. They need to talk and figure it out and not avoid one another.
First of all I don't understand all the name calling against the dad and daughter it serves no purpose. The biggest problem here is communication like in most families. We don't know if the father had a conversation over the years with the daughter about it being passed down only to the first born son or if that was the traditional along and she was unaware. I hear a lot of people saying to cut off communication with her father until he apologizes, but I think that is not the right course of action. Communication is exactly what they need! In my opinion this is a material item, precious in this family of course but family should not be torn apart because of the material item this happens all too often and it's a crying shame. Family it's what's important. Respect is important within the family and yes the father should we have more respect for his daughter and told her about the tradition, which he may have we don't know. In the daughter should have had more respect for the father
It's a father-son tradition. It's her father's watch and he gets to decide who to give it to. Pocket watches are a men's accessory, not a woman's. She's being rather entitled and childish. However, her father used a foolish justification. He should have just told her it's a father to son tradition, and she'll get something else.
I do kind've understand wanting to keep it owned by someone with the family name. There should be a better solution though.
Why though, really? These things are meaningful to some family members and not to others. A daughter can tell the story of item as well as a son. Give it to the one who is most interested. Even the first born thing is wrong.
Load More Replies... Males carry the father's name and bloodline. Keeping it with the males is the tradition and it will no longer be the tradition if changed.
Females are guaranteed to carry on the bloodline if they have children, and can keep their original family name if married. Males can change their names when married just like females, and the children they raise are not absolutely guaranteed to be theirs. Keeping it with the males was not the specified tradition. Keeping it with the first-born was. Had it been specified that the tradition was for it to go to the first-born male, the OP would not have been as surprised by her father's action.
Load More Replies... Jeeze did everyone forget to take a chill pill? This whole thing is being blown way out of proportion, down the road she benefits more financially, when the parents pass on, and if she marries smart she'll be twice as comfortable, some things are passed from fathers to sons, some things are passed from mothers to daughters, why not talk about those or are those traditions pure as snow? The op is clearly being an immature idiot, with no sense of the big picture, down the road her brother might only have that watch to his name if he gets divorced and has everything taken away from him lol Really not every tradition has to be dissected and discarded you have to your battles in life this isnt on of them, ok bring on the immaure downvotes
too bad the great grandfather who started the tradition would likely have overwhealmingly agreed with the decision. that's tradition for ya.
Well when she's told the family heirloom has gone to every first born, why should she have to ask about if she wouldn't get it just for being a girl? It seems she was hoping it would be a bit more of a surprise, and she'd been way more interested in the history of the watch than her brother. She can't have assumed her father would be sexist and refuse to give it to a female first born.
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It's clear the father knew she wanted and expected the watch or he wouldn't have given her the other expensive one as "compensation".
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Funny how a girl getting married is no longer part of the family, but a boy is? I as male left my home country, married my soulmate and took her surname. 🤷♂️
It‘s all about the family name I suppose. Or he really thinks women are „less then“
Load More Replies... Does he realize that her children will be his grandchildren, but her brother's... well, let's just say that when it comes to those things can get kind of tricky?
Your father didn’t give the watch because you don’t have a penis. He then made it your fault so he didn’t have to feel guilty.
Jees, this is so old fashioned. Will the father be choosing the husband as well??? Did he not realize the watch would go to a woman the moment she was born? Misogynistic twat.
As a person who is NOT the first born, I will say the first-born traditions kind of suck. I can't tell you how many times I was overlooked, and my older sister favored with things like jewelry and other inherited items, because of our birth order. What if the OP's sibling had been another girl, instead of a boy? Wouldn't it be unfair to that younger sister if OP got the watch? It just seems so arbitrary and unfair.
" This came as a blow since I've always been closer to my dad than my brother was and my brother isn't even interested in the watch like I have been my whole life. " The younger sibling wasn't interested at all. The father KNEW that she wanted and expected that watch, so him giving her this modern watch in some attempt to 'make up for it' is just a slap in the face. It's just about sexism. If he never intended to give it to her, he should have told her much sooner. It's not just about tradition, it's about giving it to the child who actually wants it and won't just päwn it off when they want some quick cash. I'm also the second-born, btw. (apparently päwn is a bad word now according to BP)
Load More Replies... NTA. Her father is sexist a-hole.. And how exactly would watch "leave the family"? Married daughter and her children are not family? He basically said he sees his daughter as lesser than his son and not important enough to fit his "family" concept.
And this is what I was confused about. How exactly does it leave the family with the daughter? Her first born would get it and so on. It's b******t and the women in the family should be firmly behind her on this. Hell, the men in the family should be firmly behind her on this.
Load More Replies... Yikes. So much yikes. If this is how that stingy old man treats his own daughter, I don't want to see how he treats other people who aren't related to him.
I'm so sorry, OP. I know what it feels like to be less than, just because I'm a girl. I understand why you are upset and you are right to be. This was incredibly sexist and demeaning. And for your father to try and turn your upset against you is disgusting. In my family, we have an antique collection of doll furniture that goes around the family, always to the girls. Maybe you could negotiate and say, hey, if I don't get married or my brother has a son before me, I'll give the watch to them? Otherwise, your only hope is that your brother will give it to you eventually... Just make sure that if you do end up having a family of your own, you choose a partner who will always treat your daughter the same way he's treating your son. It's a cringe conversation to have with potential partners, but depending on your culture, it's a very important one.
What's a fun Way for the watch to leave the family? If the son who has no attachment to the watch what so ever, pawns it off for a quick buck.
Her dad is an insensitive sexist jerk. So much for the tradition. So when a woman gets married she stops being part of her family? Since when? I got married and am still a member of my original family. Frankly, unless the dad apologizes, she should avoid him.
Pretty much up until the industrial revolution, I think. At least in the States. It was expected for the woman to move in with her new husband and his family after the wedding until he could build or buy a new house himself. And that was only in the case of very large families, a couple who only had one son may have expected him, his wife, and his kids to live with them to take care of them when they were too old to take care of themselves.
Load More Replies... Is a mom in the picture here? If so, what does she think? There is the old saying that completely counters the father's opinion. "A son is a son 'til he takes him a wife. A daughter's a daughter all of her life"
My mother had what i called THE BIG PENNY it was basically a war medal from Poland that was given to the family of the fallen soldiers ( didnt know this at the time i was 10 ) i always wanted it as i was obsessed by what it was ( treasure in my mind) and how i would decipher the strange language on it( Polish ) and i would find missing treasure , anyway i moved out at 18 , when my mum became ill with cancer i asked about the medal and she actually though id already took it , i never , when i cleaned her house i never found it , i can only assume one of my brothers took it and said nothing
Definitely NTA. That's completely horrible that your father is excluding you from a tradition just because you're a female. Especially since you've showed interest in it. I can't believe he let you believe you would get it for so long, it isn't cool.
Dad's the a*****e....not only for the blatant sexism toward his own daughter, but if it was always intention to give the watch to her brother then why has he fanned the flames all these years about the f*****g watch to her? He's the one that's set her up for a huge emotional fall
I wonder what the father would have done if he had ended up with two daughters and no son. Where would the watch go then?
Men are women before they're born (Its true, look it up). NTA if my father said that to me i would not speak to him for a long time.
I think what you were trying to say is that in the womb everything starts off female and depending on the hormones, some fetuses take on secondery sexual characteristics, also more proof that at one point some of them were both genders, gender fluidity is a natural thing in nature
Load More Replies... She says this is tradition, but the watch has only been passed for 2 generations (grandfather and father, OP being the 3rd but didn't receive it yet), not long enough of a tradition to not have the "rules" changed. A long conversation is needed in the family.
I thought it was weird that it's only passed through two generations but it's suppose to be from when we were a British colony America is just under 250 years old. She's the first born of her father. So her great grandfather had the watch and gave it to her grandfather at 20, who gave it to her father, and she's just now 20. Is that really long enough? I mean I'm 39, and I knew my great grandmother when I was 6 years old. She lived to be in her upper 80s but she certainly wasn't alive prior to the revolutionary war. I would think MOST of our great grandparents were at the most from the right around 1900. Not 1776.
Load More Replies... Feel this. At around 10 or so my father drove me to see the house my great-grandfather had built. Dad went on about how sad it was that a cousin, and no direct descendants, were living in it. I was then told that because my mother divorced him (my father) that I was only related to the family in name and, therefore, invalid to ever live there. Thanks dad.
The father should have made it clear from the first time he told the story that the watch goes to the first-born son. The watch isn't the one the OP wanted, and she does not like it, so she should return it to wherever the father bought it for cash. The father does not think much of her because she is a girl and says she will leave his family when she gets married. This means he will no longer consider her part of his family when she is married. She should get a job asap if she doesn't have one, because he might not have planned to provide for her in the future at all (expecting her future husband to instead). She needs to be prepared for future curve balls like this and take control of her life.
What if the son ends up being gay? Not that anything is wrong with it...but in the dad's eye's, what is worse? A son married to a man with adopted children or his first born daughter that had believed and wanted to just be seen as an equal in their traditions?...hmm not that big of a choice now is it dad??
This is just so sad. We have multiple heirlooms that are precious to my family. I'm supposed to get a charm bracelet that my great grandmother has been passing down . Now I think my mom is just planning on keeping it until she dies herself and never let me wear it. She keeps it in a box. Never sees the light of day.
Isnt' it true that the father is breaking the whole "tradition" anyway by choosing not to give the watch to the first born? He knew that she was expecting to be included in this ritual and was totally honored by the idea, yet he chose not to have a conversation with her before that moment!!......whaaat? I nstead it happened in front of everyone (!!) On her birthday!!
What a great way for the watch to leave the family? If the son who has no interest or attachment to the watch just see it an antique worth a few bucks at the local p**n shop.
Someone, anyone, care to explain how in this (pick your own gender) world, it is still expected that any children born should automatically have the surname of the father? What kind of misogynistic manure is that?
It's that classic only the men carry the name because women are possessions misogyny. And really poor timing to remind his daughter of that additude. I agree with another comment that the girl should definitely look into her personal finances because it's a good bet her father is assuming she will get "married off".
Tragic and cruel. Be angry. This is an injustice. Rise above it.
Profoundly hurtful behaviour on part of father. I'm so sorry for this young woman.
This is bringing back Trauma. When my Nana died my Papa sold EVERYTHING he could get money for. I literally had to have a fit because he was trying to sell my great grandmother's Mink Stole and HAD sold my mother's rabbit coat. I did get the mink back, but all of her jewelry, and any other furs she had, are gone now. I was supposed to inherit that, but he decided it was his and sold it.
My brother is the only male grandchild on my father's side. He is not sentimental, and does not remember my grandfather. I asked my grandmother for some trophies and mementos. She was surprised that a girl would want them, but I think she was pleased that someone actively sought them
The biggest ‘heirloom’ in my family was my paternal grandmothers now 100 year old fine china. It was used for all big family holiday meals. It went to my aunt. After she passed, I took it because nobody else in the family wanted it. But my favorite memories of grandma were using it for tea parties in her apartment. Where I learned how to swim. None of the kids or grandkids wanted it. And I married twice with no kids. It is getting sold when I go. 100+ year-old china should pay for my cremation.
The title is misleading and makes her look like a spoiled and entitled jerk please change it staff
This is rediculous. Why he never told you how he felt about the tradition. Your the one who cares about the tradition. Your the oldest. It should have been yours. Your father knee you expected it. He tried to bribe you with the apple watch. He is the A. Write out how you feel about the situation. Mail him the letter. See if he reaches out to apologize and give you your inheritance.
This is so dumb. She won't continue the family name, she'll take the last name of the man she married (if she even marries) either way the children will have the father's name which will NOT be the family name. It rightfully should go to a man who will continue the family name. How stupid do you have to be smh. Y'all will literally create an issue where there isn't one just to say "man bad woman good" and frankly I'm sick of it. Grow up. Men and women are different and neither is inherently superior to the other. Stop being a bunch of man hating sexists and get over it.
I don’t think she’s wrong.. I would have walked out after he made the comment even if I was a boy he would not have given it to me.. if that’s the case the story should have went the first born male.. but since that was never said.. you should have got the watch.. and he owes you an apology .. just my two cents
I would never speak to him again!! I'm a petty person but sexism is ridiculous!!
I am the queen of cutting off bad/toxic relationships and it has saved me so much headache and heartache. I started with my biological mother. I swear my life is so full and boring without her around and I enjoy every moment of it. I had the most amazing dad in the world and would never have behaved badly and would never do anything like OP's "father" did to her. We were incredibly close. He passed away 39 years ago when I was 13 and it still feels just as painful. Had he heard another "man" utter anything like this "dad" did he would have flipped his lid and the Marine in him would have come out. OP's "dad" deserves to be cut off.
Some of us women never get married. I wonder how the father would feel if she decides to not marry. And what would happen if he only had daughters?
Been there ... When my brother started driving, our grandfather bought him a NEW car. When my sister started driving, he bought her a second-hand car of her choice. When I started driving, I was handed a savings account containing a $10 deposit. Family? Tradition?
Pretty sure she knew this was an eldest son thing, and pitched this fit to pitch a fit. If she didn't know it was an eldest son thing, then she wouldn't have had to drop hints about it and subtly say she wanted it: she would have just assumed she'd receive it. Dads and sons are allowed to have special bonds and traditions just for them without it being backwards and evil, and she was included by getting a watch for her 20th, though not the one she wanted. All this accomplished was making her father like her less.
Poor girl. Hope she shows him the responses and gets the watch.
It's not a fixed tradition if it was the great grandfather's watch, that means it's only been passed down twice so far. I think the more upsetting aspect is the OP's father saying it would leave the family if it went to her. Seriously, what is this fixation about only the "male bloodline"? It's not even a scientific view. We have 2 parents, 4 grand parents, 8 great grandparents and so on, all of whom can contribute to our DNA. I feel sorry for the OP about her Father's attitude much more than the "tradition"
People won't like my answer but, yes, you ATA. You're only upset because you wanted something and didn't get it. You became even more upset when you found out it was going to someone else. Is there a law or written rule that says that the 1st born child is to get the watch? He can give that watch to whomever he wants to or nobody at all. You're only upset because you wanted it. What if it was something you didn't want? You have no use for it and probably have no desire to own it. Would you still be upset? Probably not. As with all things on life, hope for the best, plan for the worst, and make the best of what you get. The more mature and better way to handle this would be to wait until later, talk privately with your dad without the theatrics and waterworks. Explain how much you wanted the watch and why. At the same time, ensure him that you're appreciative of the other gifts. This won't guarantee you the watch but might change his mind and you'll maintain your relationship with y dad
imagine if the brother DOES get the watch and then just hands it to op anyway lol
She could negotiate and still retain her surname when she gets married. Or not marry but get pregnant from a sperm bank at least her grandfather’s bloodline and last name will still be preserved to her 1st born son and to his 1st born son. There are loopholes in Traditions without breaking them. The tradition wants the last name to be with passed on to the next.
Biology course needed for writers. Women didn't "get an extra chromosome". The Y in males is a broken X.
Women don't get an "extra X chromosome" dummy. Fact: Women are the 1st sex. All fetuses begin female. Fetuses that do "get an extra chromosome, get a Y". Procreation demanded adaptation, thus XY. Male penis evolved from the clitoris to suit the vagina. The Y chromosome is a broken X. Females are complete.
Seriously, a 10 minute conversation would have at least spared the scene at restaurant. It was traumatic for you but to say that in front of your friends. No!!! Nobody should think less of you. Definitely NTA. If you're brother doesn't care why not you. Has your mom slapped him upside the head
Totally NTA. I'm a male but also not the first born and I totally get her feelings. My older sister is even adopted and I get the tradition and I think it should rightfully go to her. I would be equally upset if I were in her position and I think this would definitely effect my relationship with the family. I had a similar experience with some coins (that weren't worth anything) from my grandmother but sold because they could not be "evenly" distributed amongst family. So I feel for the storyteller.
I cannot believe this guys are such jerks I understand why about half the girls in the US are gay. 😂
So many, shortsightedly, repeat this girl is "no longer part of her family" when she marries. That's preposterous! She will always be part of her family. However, when she marries, she'll take her husband's surname, and so will her children, and further generations away, no first-born heir would carry the grandfather's surname. If I understood correctly, her dad inherited the watch. Now that watch is his to do with as HE pleases - and he pleases to give it to his son, who doesn't care about the watch, but carries forward the name. Dad's choice. I get that it's disappointing to have believed you were entitled to inherit, due to birth order, but the watch is your dad's to give, and knowing you wanted it, he gave you a fitting substitute! Do not be mad or dishonor your father. Who knows, maybe your brother will be childless and your child will inherit. I don't think u r an a**e for having feelings, but do not kill your relationship w yr dad over it. Ask him to leave you something else!!!
Dad can do what ever he wants with that watch, it's his. It's been passed down through the fist born male, PERIOD. IT IS WHAT IT IS! So the daughter can start her own family heirloom, to the first born female.
I have a very simple solution that Ops father would probably accept but Op herself, and certainly, her future husband may not and if that's the case. Op needs to back off. My solution? Op needs to agree firstly, to NOT take her future husband's name in marriage. Secondly, Op must agree that her firstborn child will have her surname and NOT that of the father. If Op agrees, then this needs to be put in a legally binding contract by an attorney with the stipulation that if Op later defaults on the agreement for any reason, the watch is to be returned to her father.
wow this is so f-d up! first of all why to have such a tradition. it makes the second born feel as something less just because of the order of birth. if you dont have enough heirlooms for each of the kids dont make such a tradition. second of course she should have got the watch. we are no longer in the middle ages she is tge first born. for those saying she wont wear it as it is a mens accessory...who wears a pocket watch these days anyway? if it is so precious everyday wearing would make it possible to get lost or damaged the watch will stay in its box anyway. her brother may never marry, he may have just daughters or he may keep wifes name. the name will eventually change anyway. why would father talk about this big tradition of first borns to her if he chose to exclude her is beyond me. he should have said at the beggining it would go to the first son only which is still sexist a f. NTA and the father is TA
She has no claim to the watch. It's the dad's watch and he can give it anyone he wants. What if the son feels as though he should get watch?
Opposite. I’m the eldest by 13 minutes. My twin brother chucked a spit.
Of course this is blatantly sexist. If you do not honor a family tradition, it is not a tradition at all.
As the firstborn [woman] in our immediate family, we get treated the same. The boys/men receive "higher" strata, however, we were made to understand that this is a very old tradition we must honour; which none of us offended by it. Not everything is about "gender sexism", sometimes it's about respect and being honourable. I may live in Canada, but am not "westernized" as others would think. I honestly don't agree with the culture in Canada or USA. Zero respect in almost everything and only care about themselves and their "postulation" of "modern living". We have the same tradition, the first boy in the family is whom will get the family heirloom of a vintage Patek Philippe. Being a woman myself, obviously, I didn't get THE watch. But they allow me to pick and purchase a newer watch from the same brand. Point is, OP NTA but grow up, not everything is about you.
PS. Yes majority of the women in our family have higher education and career rather than the men. Which means they don't oppose in gender equality and very supportive of women independency. So, no, not everything is about sexism, there are many other factors play into it.
Load More Replies... EAH-father should give it to you regardless of the fact that you are a female because you are the first born. Just because your child will have a different last name, it'll still follow the bloodline. That's why he's an AH. However that discussion should take place later than having a tantrum in front of the family and friends who showed up to celebrate your birthday. At your age I understand though. Eventually you will gain the maturity to keep your emotions in check.
I'm sorry, but I don't see how this thing that happened once is suddenly a tradition? It was her grandfather's watch, then he would have passed it along to his son (who is her father, and the current possesser of the watch) and that's it. Where is the "it has always been passed down to a male"? Unless it gets passed around by the cousins, too....but then what if one cousin is born within days of the other? Does it get passed to him days after the first one turned 20?
Some traditions are traditions.. Like passing it to your son.. I know it's jacked up but that is what it is.. How can people judge him.. It was originally passed from son to son to son correct?? He should have just told her right out the gate as a kid.. But to bash tradition is stupid.. Just because everyone thinks they are perfect and woke now doesn't make people's traditions wrong.. I have my grandfather's watch.. it was passed to my dad then me.. Guess what my daughter was born first but my son will get the watch.. it's a pocket watch as well.. Will my daughter get something?? Yes from my grandmother's collection I got from my mother that was passed down to first born which was me.. These are all traditions are ancestors started not us.. If we don't want to follow it it's a slap in there faces.. Stop telling people they have to fit in your box or there evil.. This dad is an a*****e but the tradition is not..
Well I had something like that happen to me. It's crazy that he did that and most people would've went off instead of leaving. Anyone who doesn't get her emotions need to get a heart. And think about how they would feel if they was in her shoes.
I won't but into family matters of long standing traditions. Not really my place. But I DO think it's extremely odd that the father didn't tell her she wasn't to receive the watch prior to the birthday party. I mean, he'd obviously told her about the tradition, right? I mean, someone definitely did. So he (probably, I will not pretend to KNOW) knew she wanted the heirloom but intended not to give it to her, fine. But why leave the question in her mind up until the disappointment in front of all her family and friends. That doesn't make sense. To me, there's only two ways this makes sense: one, dad really didn't pick up the hints or 2, dad was hoping she'd say nothing for fear of making a scene. But even still, 2 doesn't make a lot of sense cause she'd obviously still bring it up later. Is it possible that maybe he'd already mentioned that it's an heirloom for the men only and she didn't hear it? This story feels like something is missing.
It only belongs to her or her brother when it is given. Anyway, it's the father's watch. Even if Dad could have honestly explained his intention sooner, someone else can't think of it. Hinting in for a year that you want that watch is more greedy in my eyes than respecting the first owner. Because that's what it's all about, the great-grandfather.
How is she being greedy for wanting to be apart of a family tradition? She wasn't planning on getting cash for the watch. She just thought it was special to inherit something deemed important to her family.
Load More Replies... I'm sure that I'm not the only person who believes MOST of what goes viral on AITA is made up fiction. I'm assuming this story is from outside of the United States, because the revolutionary war was won back in 1776 and there's no way that her great grandfather was alive at that time. Anyway, I don't think anyone is entitled to an heirloom. I think they're best handed down by the person who is doing the handing, as the responsibility of those items is extreme. Some kids are not as responsible then others even into adulthood and keeping the heirloom to pass down is pretty important. I think it's a bit indignant to assume that you.are entitled to anything, ever. My parents struggled financially and gave me and my siblings very little growing up, yet I've never disrespected like this woman did here, by walking out on them in public and being ungrateful for what was given. she should have vented her frustrations, but there's a time and place. Her choice here was childish and unbecoming.
Actually her great grandfather could have been alive, it’s her great grandfather; it’s possible. As far as disrespect no, her Father was wrong in how he approached the situation. He was aware of how interested, involved she was with the heirloom and the history of the family. Why would he get a watch as a present? That’s a slap in the face when tradition is the first born inherits the heirloom? It’s called having emotions and being human. She admitted she could have handled it better but it was upsetting. Your environment is different from hers. Her father set her up plain and simple. It was wrong. It’s not entitlement. His statements were biased and repressive. That’s hurtful especially if you feel you have a close relationship. The stories are not fiction. Stop
Load More Replies... Wow people in the comments really making it about sexist its not that deep as far as I'm concerned who ever bought the watch gets to make whatever rule he or she wants with it disappointed in you people that y'all are going after the father and not a the rule/ generation BS
It's because the father is being a sexist POS and calling her "temporary family" because she's a woman, also he lead her on for years making her believe she would get the watch
Load More Replies... I understand OP's feelings of hurt in this situation but I also can feel the concern the father has for this item. People keep saying a name is just a name but apparently it's not too people like this family, they are obviously very proud of their past. If she gets the watch and so does marry and takes the husbands name there is a chance after a generation or two that they will forget or care less about her maiden names ancestry. I personally have a bunch of heirlooms from my family and they are tied to many last names but I also have first hand experience seeing how people in my immediate family now care more for the items that they feel are more linked to their immediate blood line and that's our last name. So from my experience I can see the fathers concern but that does not justify how he treated his daughter. Imo all this could have been avoided by a simple conversation and open dialogue.
Well OP already said how her brother never actually cared about the watch so having it given to him he may not even care to explain the meaning to any possible kids he has if he never cared for it. Along with the dad assuming that his daughter couldn't possibly keep the family name when marrying, she could if her partner is also fine with it, along with the fact he's assuming his son will keep the family name and not change it to his possible partner's name. It's blatant sexism without even truly communicating.
Load More Replies... This is b******t and were right for leaving. That really sucks. I hope he gets it together and gives you the watch.
Classic case of incorrect conclusion based on a small sample size. She stated it has been the first born and until now the first born has always been male. Her observation that it goes to the first born child on their 20th and her father's observation that it goes to the first born male child on their 20th both are consistent with the data
Well the father never mentioned it only went to male children, and after hearing his reasonings for not wanting to give it to his own first born, of course she would be upset that he has such sexist reasonings to not let her get the watch she cared so much about.
Load More Replies... Okay but in my family there are 3rings representing grand mother, mother and daughter...if I have a son should I give him a girls ring? Traditions are called that because they do not change TAH
But that tradition specifies gender. This one seems to just be first-born, not specifically first-born male.
Load More Replies... A pocketwatch is a man's accessory. The daughter would have a case if this was a ring or brooch or necklace. Function trumps fetish.
I REALLY hate saying this but....neither her nor her father are the a*****e...British colonizers means likely a country that still either traditionally or legally gives property of the wife to the husband. So she is valid to be hurt but he is not wrong in that their heirloom would become her husband's family's heirloom, and even if they divorced she would not get it back.
He saw it as a father-son tradition. She saw it as a first-born tradition. The watch has only changed owner twice...
This is ridiculous women pass heirlooms to daughters that they would never give to their sons like a wedding dress or a ring or something feminine. And the watch has been passed to the men of the family I would have given the watch to my daughter but this guy didn't. That does not mean that he does not love and cherish his daughter but we also can't ignore two thousand years of human behavior women to this day get married and change there name that was and is how it works in most cases maybe her mother should have had something equally special or start a new tradition instead of letting semantic distroy there family and live for eachother
You actually inherit you mother's mitochondrial DNA, therefore you are always more your mother's child than your father's.
You are the A-hole because. You are not owed the watch. Just because previous generations did something does not obligate future generations to follow. He could throw the watch in the trash if he wished.
Continued. But not storming out during her birthday party. They need to talk and figure it out and not avoid one another.
First of all I don't understand all the name calling against the dad and daughter it serves no purpose. The biggest problem here is communication like in most families. We don't know if the father had a conversation over the years with the daughter about it being passed down only to the first born son or if that was the traditional along and she was unaware. I hear a lot of people saying to cut off communication with her father until he apologizes, but I think that is not the right course of action. Communication is exactly what they need! In my opinion this is a material item, precious in this family of course but family should not be torn apart because of the material item this happens all too often and it's a crying shame. Family it's what's important. Respect is important within the family and yes the father should we have more respect for his daughter and told her about the tradition, which he may have we don't know. In the daughter should have had more respect for the father
It's a father-son tradition. It's her father's watch and he gets to decide who to give it to. Pocket watches are a men's accessory, not a woman's. She's being rather entitled and childish. However, her father used a foolish justification. He should have just told her it's a father to son tradition, and she'll get something else.
I do kind've understand wanting to keep it owned by someone with the family name. There should be a better solution though.
Why though, really? These things are meaningful to some family members and not to others. A daughter can tell the story of item as well as a son. Give it to the one who is most interested. Even the first born thing is wrong.
Load More Replies... Males carry the father's name and bloodline. Keeping it with the males is the tradition and it will no longer be the tradition if changed.
Females are guaranteed to carry on the bloodline if they have children, and can keep their original family name if married. Males can change their names when married just like females, and the children they raise are not absolutely guaranteed to be theirs. Keeping it with the males was not the specified tradition. Keeping it with the first-born was. Had it been specified that the tradition was for it to go to the first-born male, the OP would not have been as surprised by her father's action.
Load More Replies... Jeeze did everyone forget to take a chill pill? This whole thing is being blown way out of proportion, down the road she benefits more financially, when the parents pass on, and if she marries smart she'll be twice as comfortable, some things are passed from fathers to sons, some things are passed from mothers to daughters, why not talk about those or are those traditions pure as snow? The op is clearly being an immature idiot, with no sense of the big picture, down the road her brother might only have that watch to his name if he gets divorced and has everything taken away from him lol Really not every tradition has to be dissected and discarded you have to your battles in life this isnt on of them, ok bring on the immaure downvotes
too bad the great grandfather who started the tradition would likely have overwhealmingly agreed with the decision. that's tradition for ya.
Well when she's told the family heirloom has gone to every first born, why should she have to ask about if she wouldn't get it just for being a girl? It seems she was hoping it would be a bit more of a surprise, and she'd been way more interested in the history of the watch than her brother. She can't have assumed her father would be sexist and refuse to give it to a female first born.
Load More Replies... It's clear the father knew she wanted and expected the watch or he wouldn't have given her the other expensive one as "compensation".
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