Woman Secretly Sells Her House Which She Was Renting To Her Brother And His Family After He Was Late To Pay Rent
As humans, we want to have a close connection with our families, but sometimes that doesn’t happen and it’s hurtful to realize that you are not compatible with the people you share your DNA with or that they only keep you close to benefit from you.
But this woman didn’t allow her older brother to take advantage of her and secretly sold her house he stopped paying rent for. Now the brother and his family are being evicted and the rest of the family is divided by her decision.
More info: Reddit
You wouldn’t think that your sister would sell the house you’re living in, but you also would expect your brother to pay on time and take care of the house
Image credits: Warren LeMay (not the actual photo)
But in this story, the brother was late with payments and stopped doing maintenance, so the sister sold the house and didn’t tell him
Image credits: Sludge G (not the actual photo)
Image credits: Jiposhy .com (not the actual photo)
Image credits: FollowingFit3032
The brother was angry at his sister that he had to move and only found out from the new owner, their parents were on the woman’s side
The Original Poster (OP) has an older brother who needed help 5 years ago and since she had rental properties, she offered one of them to him. The house is not very glamorous, but according to the woman, it’s “solid,” and the sister was asking him only to pay for the mortgage and property tax to her, but that meant he was paying for the maintenance because she was not getting profit from this property.
There were no major conflicts between the siblings until the brother decided to change the hot water tank because it wasn’t enough for his family, although it was only 3 years old and still had warranty.
It might be very true that the water tank was too small as the family consists of 6 people, so the sister allowed him to install a new one, but she didn’t expect him to make her pay for it as she considered it maintenance and it was the brother’s responsibility.
Eventually, the homeowner paid for the water tank but forbade the brother to make any changes to the house without her permission, which then led to him maliciously complying and stopping doing maintenance.
When the sister refused to add a new breaker box and run more outlets because the wiring was not adapted for all the modern electronics they have, which readers found weird, as it was only 20 years old, he started paying rent late.
So the OP had enough, especially after she tried to talk to him without managing to resolve anything, and sold the house without telling her brother, who found out when he got an eviction notice from the new property owner. The woman’s parents are on her side, but there are a few family members who were horrified. But the OP thinks that 90 days to find a new place is enough and she didn’t see her brother as a serious buyer because he was not even paying rent.
People in the comments were divided. Some said that her brother is not her responsibility and she already was generous by charging him only mortgage and property taxes. Others thought that there was fault from both sides: the OP should have told her brother she was selling the house and he was supposed to continue taking care of maintenance as they originally agreed.
Image credits: Warren LeMay (not the actual photo)
In general, the situation is not that uncommon. A tenant is late to pay rent or skips it altogether, they don’t take care of the property and the landlord is looking for a way to get rid of them to avoid more loss.
Actually, according to CNBC, “About 18% renters in America, or around 10 million people, were behind in their rent payments as of the beginning of the month.” And the average debt is $5,600 or 4 months behind.
But the factor that makes the situation at hand more complicated is that the tenant and the landlord are family and there are different expectations. The tenant may think that the landlord will be more lenient, will wait longer and will ask less.
New Again Houses, a house flipping company, strongly discourages people from renting to family. Their explanation is “One word: drama.”
From one side, the relative may look at the situation more casually and not consider it an actual contract between a landlord and a tenant. On the other side, the tenant “acquires a false sense of security because you’re not anticipating any problems from your nephew or daughter. After all, they’re family.”
But you should expect issues arising, whether it’s family or random strangers. The only difference is how complicated it will be to resolve them. To avoid such a situation, you may want to “consider having a third-party property management company act as a buffer between you and your relative. Or find another way to deal with the property, such as listing it with a real estate agent or selling it for cash.”
Pay Rent also adds that “Boundaries are a crucial part of any relationship, but when you’re renting to relatives and friends, setting clear boundaries before move-in day is especially important in order to set yourselves up for a successful working relationship.” A really good way to do it is a contract that states responsibilities of both parties and consequences if the contract is violated.
Would you rent to a family member or friend? How would you handle a situation like the OP found herself in? Do you think her solution was appropriate? Do you think she is a lousy landlord or was the brother a tenant who deserved such treatment? Let us know in the comments.
Readers had mixed opinions ranging from approving the sisters problem solution to claiming that everyone in the situation suck
ESH. So much passive aggressiveness from both sides. Grow up and talk to each other honestly instead of acting selfishly and making assumptions.
If the water heater was safe and it worked the landlord is under no obligation to replace it just because the tenant wanted a larger one. From what was written it sounds like the wiring was fine but that the tenant wanted more outlets. Older homes sometimes only have one or two in a room. With all the electronics these days that can be an inconvenience. However the landlord is under no obligation to add outlets just because the tenant wants them, especially if it requires more breaker/fuse slots and a new panel to hold them.
It wasn't an older house though. Only 20 years old. It is one thousand percent her job as a landlord to make sure the wiring is safe and up to code. A 20 year old house should be wired fine to use appliances. He was paying her mortgage off. Yes he was also ah for not paying on time. But it sounded like she was unwilling to fix anything for her property. She expected bc he was her brother to fix it all and not bother her. She could've given him a heads up. That's so awful. 90 days to find another home for your family isn't enough. Especially now. She was wrong. She should've never rented to him in the first place. I totally get it. I have a loser brother and I would never rent to him. Ever. You can't live or sell or rent to family. No business.
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Moral of this story, never rent to family or friends; seems to end in problems
The actual moral of the story is learn how to communicate and you won't end being an AH to your brothers and sisters.
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in all honesty i dont think the OP is in the wrong. they had an agreement her brother broke it multiple times by either not paying rent or not maintaining the property. the fact that the OP's parents think she shouldve never helped her brother suggests her brother isnt reliable or takes but never gives. also it is her property and she did give him 90 days to find somewhere else to live. she didnt just say "hey leave u got a few days" she gave him 90 days. 2 months is enough time to find a place. perfect example is my parents. they moved to flordia without buying a house first. within a week they found an apartment to rent and after a month of living there they found and bought a house. they decided to live out the 6 month lease on the apartment so they werent surrounded by renovations on the house. long story short my parents found a place to rent in a week. 2 months is more then enough time. also i dont think anyone noticed this but y did he rent from the OP if he had the money to buy the house from her? he couldve found a house to buy himself instead of doing that. he took advantage of family instead of being an adult and finding a place for his kids and wife. he clearly was never going to go along with the agreement he just wanted a place for him and his family to live while someone else took care or issues
90 days is 3 months even, and she didn't serve him an eviction notice. She knows that the person that bought the house did. She could have told him after she signed the paperwork that she sold the house. But if he's that passive aggressive I wouldn't have told him ahead of time either, he might have tried to sabotage the sale. 😬
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I worked at a nonprofit housing organization where we had a homeownership program- helping educate folks,clean up their credit,save money- we also offered rental assistance and house offered a lease to own program- It truly is unbelievable how folks want to take advantage of their landlords and family that is bending over backwards to help- bottom line is people love to take advantage and this guy did take advantage- negotiating 90 days after the sale of a property is virtually unheard of in most situations so his sister did him a solid- I have seen tennants try to destroy a rental that is up for sale or try and make it nearly impossible to be shown to potential buyers,I believe thats what would have happened if she had given her brother a heads up- why do people believe its ok that he quit paying the rent? He would have been evicted eventually anyway with any other landlord- sounds like she gave him every opportunity to make things right.No sis your not the AH
Would brother have done damage with more notice? Had to factor in that risk.
Not only the thought of damaging the property, but he was already starting to be late with the rent payments. If he knew she was going to sell, I can see him making the decision to stop paying altogether and trying to say he needed it to move. Like the commenter above said- if the parents even told her she never should have rented to him, what does that say about his character? It does leave a sour taste in my mouth because it's her brother, but ultimately I think she just did what she had to do to get out of the situation. It seems the longer he stayed there, the more resentment he was having towards her since he couldn't have his way.
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NTA you gave this mooching freeloader plenty of chances which he blew off because you're his sister. Tough s**t buddy! As for relatives bad mouthing you tell them to MYOB and shut the f**k up!
I was thinking ESH until I read some of OP’s comments on Reddit. They sound like a real a*****e.
NTA he wanted a new hot water tank to make sure they can all have hot water. My daughter's place you have to wait at least an hour after someone use it to get hot water. So she is not the only landlord who don't think they have to replace the tank to make them happy. He should have never became petty and not pay on time a landlord don't have to rewire the place to pls the tenant needs. He should have found a new place than. 1) if she would have called him ahead of time and he offer to pay for it. He definitely would not have given her the money she's asking for the property, and probably would have felt he can pay in payments. If he didn't offer to pay it he would have curse her out call their family up to bash her and try to talk her out of it. She can't treat her family like family when doing business. She wouldn't have told those that rent from from her that's not related a head of time. So she doesn't havevto with him. Family or not treat them all the same.
The hot water was like that in my house growing up and my parents owned the place. You adjust.
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I helped one of my step-brothers like days after his mom passed. He moved in with my husband our child and I in a 3bed 2 bath home. The first night he began asking me if he could get one of my medications to help his back. I said no. I have so many and I have to account for each one with my doctor plus drug tests and all that jump through hoops BS. He began searching my home anytime I and my husband and kid would leave the house. He didn't realize there's a reason I hide my meds like I do. I grew up being stolen from by my brother and extended family as a kid so I don't trust anyone. He finally told on himself when he moved out at midnight one night and left his storage bill in my name. So after months of being late (2 months behind )on the rent for storage and not putting it into his name as I kept demanding I finally had enough of his s**t and I choose to give out his info so bill collectors could track him down and get their money or take him to court. Then I sat back and watched 🤭
I have to agree with the landlord that commented about the upgrades. It is not fair to ask him to pay for something like a new panel. It sounds like that was a necessary upgrade. Plus it will likely well outlive his tenancy in the house. The water heater, that would depend on whether it was old, or would be sufficient for other tenants. I think it would've been more reasonable for her to pay for those upgrades, take her tax write off, and then bump up the rent to compensate, and keep her in the agreed upon break even state. It would've also been reasonable for her brother to propose buying the house at the point the upgrades were being discussed. If that really had been his plan, he could've countered with an offer to purchase when his sister balked at spending thousands of dollars to upgrade a property she was renting to him at a discount. Though I suspect he likely would've expected to get the place for less than full market value, given his track record.
The water heater was still under warranty!!! You really dont know what it cost to maintain a rental property obviously!!! She was more than generous what tax write offs- where do you think the money would come from to replace the roof,plumbing,a furnace I could go on and on.If he stopped doing maintenance, do you think they cared how they treated flooring,walls,cabinets on and on! He didnt have a pot to pi** in obviously- if he had money he probably wouldn't have ask his sister for a place to live to start with,even 1)he did he should have worked that out way sooner to start with...but he doesnt2) when you apply for a mortgage your rental history is pretty important factor 3) obviously the house wasnt big enough to fit his family size anyway,so why was he still living there 4) why the He** does he have 4 kids and no means to house them 5) he should put his money where his mouth is 6) His sister is not responsible for her brothers family 7) whos going to cover those missed rent payments
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US law states any improvement made on the house by a tenant he can't take when he moves can be taken off the rent as it benefits the landlord not the tenant. As the water heater wasn't considered efficient for his family it's probably a more capacity and probably being current energy efficient so any new tenant benefits with more hot water landlord with lower bills. For his to p**s on you to family was sad and pathetic. For those verbally abusing you without getting sides sad and pathetic. Your Brother was told he needed your OK for anymore improvements. The minute you said no and he was late paying rent he was in the wrong. He was told to get landlord permission, was denying and chose to protest by paying rent late.
Which country is this story taking place in? As laws differ per country,. But removing the family relationship, I cant believe it's legal to sell the property without even informing the tenant. That's just terrible and should be illegal.
In America it is. A landlord does not have to inform the tenants that they are selling. The new owner only have to give you 30 days notice after buying it. If tenant disagree you can file papers with the courts. That would stop the eviction from moving forwards until speaking to a judge.
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I wonder what this property would rent for outside of this arrangement? Its description wasn't exactly positive and I wonder what a legitimate tenant would view as a needed update. Id like to see what the new owners of the house do to it and rent charged, if it's still a rental.
Now she said it was an eviction. If it was a 14 or 30 day eviction, she could be in some serious legal trouble. Some states require giving tenants a 90 day notice that they are putting the home up for sale. It may have been her AH brother, but they both signed a lease agreement, meaning she has to follow the laws.
Curious how many times he was late with the rent. Regardless, I still would have told him I sold it or was looking to sell it so he could have time to find another place. Especially since he has kids. It's not their fault their father is a mooch.
He had 90 days they only have to give 30 days notice. You speaking as if he's being treated like family and not like it's a business.
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Easily.. ESH but you are definitely an AH..the only real victims here are the kids... you could have gone about it a lot better... he is your family, not some random AH.. you could have tried a little more to get him to pay his part... then if not, TELL him you are sellin first, you are a coward for doing this to your own brother and his kids... family deserves better even if they fail you..
Looks like he was waiting to take further advantage of you. Such as, once he caused you to get further behind on the mortgage, he'd offer to buy you out and you'd take his offer in desperation. You did what you had to do since he was being manipulative. No need to give him more slack to ruin you. It's unfortunate, of course.
Things can start spiraling out of control very quickly with a renter like that. You were only breaking even. You could have got in deep financial trouble, owing several house payments. You did what you had to do.
Just wow she said his rent paid mortgage and property tax but that she didnt make a profit WTF HE IS PAYING FOR YOU TO OWN A HOUSE. Landlords are the most entitled pieces of s**t. I cant stand it. She is complaining about being paid equity. Asks how he could afford a mortgage ifhe xouldnt afford rent hell he was already affording YOUR MORTGAGE B***H. This isnt a sexist thing he seems like an a*****e taking advantage of his sister but she seems like an a*****e taking advantage of everyone. Commercial landlording should be illegal.
Did you read the part about him actually NOT paying? They had an agreement. He broke his word. Whether you agree with commercial landlording or not is a different issue. And you're just rude.
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ESH, and this is EXACTLY why you never do financial favors (cost rent in this case) for family or friends. It will almost always bite you in the a**e.
Bad communication between the two of your caused more friction than needed. Seriously, if it was my house I would not have rented to him to begin with. Because there are kids involved, I would have had a little more compassion with your brother and politely, but firmly told him you were in process of selling the house - asking him to move - and giving him longer than 90 days to find a new home for his family. I understand your position, and I don't trust my brother and sister either, plus my family members are bad communicators like your and your brother are.
YTA for the following reasons... did she give him written notice of late payment? Doesn't sound like it, verbal isn't really good enough when dealing with tenants no matter who they are. She didn't inform her tenants that she was selling, that's extremely rude and possibly (depending on county) illegal. Brother is also TA just because you are renting from a family member, since you signed a tenancy agreement you agreed to pay rent on time, every time. Conclusion.... both haven't behaved in a reasonable adult manner
ESH. This is why we need more laws to control landlords. They have too much freedom to do whatever already. A major red flag is OP admitting that the house "isn't meant for modern" things. That's backwards, because eventually, everything will have to be updated to SOME level to keep up with the times. We are in 2023, not 1953. You can't charge 2023 rents and expect to never update the property. she even admitted the water heater was "old" so I'm on the brothers side on that one. Just because she thinks it's "fine" doesn't mean it's fine. It's old for a reason; Everything goes through wear and tear. The brother is an AH for continuing to make additional costly repairs in "exchange" for rent, which makes me believe we aren't getting the whole story on whether they really had an agreement about that or not. He should have stopped at the water heater, and other small things, and maybe taken his sister to court IF the rest of the house were truly not up to par for living.
Not being able to run a Smart TV charge five iPads and run a microwave on a single circuit doesn't mean it's unlivable. She also wasn't charging market rents, that was the whole point. If you're getting a thousand plus dollars a month profit then maybe you could do things like upgrade the circuit. Like right now I'm in a house with old wiring, I could pay 50k to bring it to modern age. I really don't want to do that. It's not a fire hazard, it just means I can't run a million devices all at once.
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As mentioned elsewhere, while the arrangement was technically break-even on a cash flow basis, it is likely (assuming the real estate market was not falling) that she was coming out ahead on gaining equity in the house. As she was apparently able to get a great price for the property that seems to be the case. If he had been only paying the interest portion of her payments then it would be different. Although, technically he is not assuming any of the risk of the market price of the house, so we are kind of comparing apples and oranges here.
Everyone has a different view. My view is,don't try to profit from your own family. What I noticed is the woman's coldness,not only when she said " His kids" love the yard instead of " My nieces and nephews"... There is no love lost there I see. I don't believe her brother was taking advantage,he DID make improvements. If the water tank wasn't big enough for a family SHE should have changed it even BEFORE he said anything. She didn't give a s**t about him OR his children. STA.
To be fair, brother did break agreement. However, considering he did have a family, she should have let them know that she was selling at least. No, the children are not her responsibility, but they needed to be taken into consideration before making such a rash decision without letting the parents know. If it was just the brother living alone, they yeah, fudge him. Don't rent or do business with family.
She did negotiate for them to get 90 days before eviction, thats really long. And i think sge was in the right for not telling him she was selling or he would have claimed to want to buy and string it out, or sabotage her sale.
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You're a giant a*****e. If you didn't want to help him out anymore I get it but you could have let him know first and gave him a heads up.
Should have let him know he was selling it before an eviction notice. Its family. Couldn't fault him for anything else. If the brother wants to buy im sure he can find a property but he obviously was going to attempt to take advantage of the situation since its family and couldn't buy a home otherwise.
She treated her brother as a commodity and wonders if she an AH. He treated her like a landlord instead of a sibling helping out. Double AH's and one basically used a 3rd party to force the other to leave their home because rent was late. Cruel and cowardice glad I'm not related to either.
ESH. Brother should've paid his rent on time. Landlord should pay for substantial upgrades like new breaker panels. "I can't afford it cuz I'm not making money on the house" is just blatantly a lie. The mortgage was subsidized, so you're not out that expense. Selling the house out from under him is just petty and dumb.
OP got him 90 days notice. It sounds like rent wasn't "late", it was actually several months in arrears. (Since none of the relatives wanted to cover it.) If he's withholding rent, why should OP give him the chance to buy the house?
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It wasn't because the wiring was bad. He just wanted more outlets.
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He had 90 day notice not zero... 3 months is a really long time.
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Wanting to charge five devices at once instead of two, is not being a fire hazard . Older style wiring is fine if it's still safe. You just might not be able to run as many items all in one circuit. It's okay to sell your house to a developer if you don't want to do the upgrades to bring it to modern age. Not everybody's got 50K to drop on new electric systems. Also like she said the water heater worked he just wanted a bigger one presumably to do four baths in a row. As long as the water heater met the standard for the house she wasn't obligated to buy a bigger fancyer one. 🤷
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He likely would have done stuff to sabotage a sale. But letting him know after the paperwork cleared would have been okay.
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Do people not read, he had 90 day warning. That's more than enough time to find a place to stay. Places don't even rent out more than 20 or 30 days ahead.
Load More Replies... ESH. So much passive aggressiveness from both sides. Grow up and talk to each other honestly instead of acting selfishly and making assumptions.
If the water heater was safe and it worked the landlord is under no obligation to replace it just because the tenant wanted a larger one. From what was written it sounds like the wiring was fine but that the tenant wanted more outlets. Older homes sometimes only have one or two in a room. With all the electronics these days that can be an inconvenience. However the landlord is under no obligation to add outlets just because the tenant wants them, especially if it requires more breaker/fuse slots and a new panel to hold them.
It wasn't an older house though. Only 20 years old. It is one thousand percent her job as a landlord to make sure the wiring is safe and up to code. A 20 year old house should be wired fine to use appliances. He was paying her mortgage off. Yes he was also ah for not paying on time. But it sounded like she was unwilling to fix anything for her property. She expected bc he was her brother to fix it all and not bother her. She could've given him a heads up. That's so awful. 90 days to find another home for your family isn't enough. Especially now. She was wrong. She should've never rented to him in the first place. I totally get it. I have a loser brother and I would never rent to him. Ever. You can't live or sell or rent to family. No business.
Load More Replies... Moral of this story, never rent to family or friends; seems to end in problems
The actual moral of the story is learn how to communicate and you won't end being an AH to your brothers and sisters.
Load More Replies... in all honesty i dont think the OP is in the wrong. they had an agreement her brother broke it multiple times by either not paying rent or not maintaining the property. the fact that the OP's parents think she shouldve never helped her brother suggests her brother isnt reliable or takes but never gives. also it is her property and she did give him 90 days to find somewhere else to live. she didnt just say "hey leave u got a few days" she gave him 90 days. 2 months is enough time to find a place. perfect example is my parents. they moved to flordia without buying a house first. within a week they found an apartment to rent and after a month of living there they found and bought a house. they decided to live out the 6 month lease on the apartment so they werent surrounded by renovations on the house. long story short my parents found a place to rent in a week. 2 months is more then enough time. also i dont think anyone noticed this but y did he rent from the OP if he had the money to buy the house from her? he couldve found a house to buy himself instead of doing that. he took advantage of family instead of being an adult and finding a place for his kids and wife. he clearly was never going to go along with the agreement he just wanted a place for him and his family to live while someone else took care or issues
90 days is 3 months even, and she didn't serve him an eviction notice. She knows that the person that bought the house did. She could have told him after she signed the paperwork that she sold the house. But if he's that passive aggressive I wouldn't have told him ahead of time either, he might have tried to sabotage the sale. 😬
Load More Replies... I worked at a nonprofit housing organization where we had a homeownership program- helping educate folks,clean up their credit,save money- we also offered rental assistance and house offered a lease to own program- It truly is unbelievable how folks want to take advantage of their landlords and family that is bending over backwards to help- bottom line is people love to take advantage and this guy did take advantage- negotiating 90 days after the sale of a property is virtually unheard of in most situations so his sister did him a solid- I have seen tennants try to destroy a rental that is up for sale or try and make it nearly impossible to be shown to potential buyers,I believe thats what would have happened if she had given her brother a heads up- why do people believe its ok that he quit paying the rent? He would have been evicted eventually anyway with any other landlord- sounds like she gave him every opportunity to make things right.No sis your not the AH
Would brother have done damage with more notice? Had to factor in that risk.
Not only the thought of damaging the property, but he was already starting to be late with the rent payments. If he knew she was going to sell, I can see him making the decision to stop paying altogether and trying to say he needed it to move. Like the commenter above said- if the parents even told her she never should have rented to him, what does that say about his character? It does leave a sour taste in my mouth because it's her brother, but ultimately I think she just did what she had to do to get out of the situation. It seems the longer he stayed there, the more resentment he was having towards her since he couldn't have his way.
Load More Replies... NTA you gave this mooching freeloader plenty of chances which he blew off because you're his sister. Tough s**t buddy! As for relatives bad mouthing you tell them to MYOB and shut the f**k up!
I was thinking ESH until I read some of OP’s comments on Reddit. They sound like a real a*****e.
NTA he wanted a new hot water tank to make sure they can all have hot water. My daughter's place you have to wait at least an hour after someone use it to get hot water. So she is not the only landlord who don't think they have to replace the tank to make them happy. He should have never became petty and not pay on time a landlord don't have to rewire the place to pls the tenant needs. He should have found a new place than. 1) if she would have called him ahead of time and he offer to pay for it. He definitely would not have given her the money she's asking for the property, and probably would have felt he can pay in payments. If he didn't offer to pay it he would have curse her out call their family up to bash her and try to talk her out of it. She can't treat her family like family when doing business. She wouldn't have told those that rent from from her that's not related a head of time. So she doesn't havevto with him. Family or not treat them all the same.
The hot water was like that in my house growing up and my parents owned the place. You adjust.
Load More Replies... I helped one of my step-brothers like days after his mom passed. He moved in with my husband our child and I in a 3bed 2 bath home. The first night he began asking me if he could get one of my medications to help his back. I said no. I have so many and I have to account for each one with my doctor plus drug tests and all that jump through hoops BS. He began searching my home anytime I and my husband and kid would leave the house. He didn't realize there's a reason I hide my meds like I do. I grew up being stolen from by my brother and extended family as a kid so I don't trust anyone. He finally told on himself when he moved out at midnight one night and left his storage bill in my name. So after months of being late (2 months behind )on the rent for storage and not putting it into his name as I kept demanding I finally had enough of his s**t and I choose to give out his info so bill collectors could track him down and get their money or take him to court. Then I sat back and watched 🤭
I have to agree with the landlord that commented about the upgrades. It is not fair to ask him to pay for something like a new panel. It sounds like that was a necessary upgrade. Plus it will likely well outlive his tenancy in the house. The water heater, that would depend on whether it was old, or would be sufficient for other tenants. I think it would've been more reasonable for her to pay for those upgrades, take her tax write off, and then bump up the rent to compensate, and keep her in the agreed upon break even state. It would've also been reasonable for her brother to propose buying the house at the point the upgrades were being discussed. If that really had been his plan, he could've countered with an offer to purchase when his sister balked at spending thousands of dollars to upgrade a property she was renting to him at a discount. Though I suspect he likely would've expected to get the place for less than full market value, given his track record.
The water heater was still under warranty!!! You really dont know what it cost to maintain a rental property obviously!!! She was more than generous what tax write offs- where do you think the money would come from to replace the roof,plumbing,a furnace I could go on and on.If he stopped doing maintenance, do you think they cared how they treated flooring,walls,cabinets on and on! He didnt have a pot to pi** in obviously- if he had money he probably wouldn't have ask his sister for a place to live to start with,even 1)he did he should have worked that out way sooner to start with...but he doesnt2) when you apply for a mortgage your rental history is pretty important factor 3) obviously the house wasnt big enough to fit his family size anyway,so why was he still living there 4) why the He** does he have 4 kids and no means to house them 5) he should put his money where his mouth is 6) His sister is not responsible for her brothers family 7) whos going to cover those missed rent payments
Load More Replies... US law states any improvement made on the house by a tenant he can't take when he moves can be taken off the rent as it benefits the landlord not the tenant. As the water heater wasn't considered efficient for his family it's probably a more capacity and probably being current energy efficient so any new tenant benefits with more hot water landlord with lower bills. For his to p**s on you to family was sad and pathetic. For those verbally abusing you without getting sides sad and pathetic. Your Brother was told he needed your OK for anymore improvements. The minute you said no and he was late paying rent he was in the wrong. He was told to get landlord permission, was denying and chose to protest by paying rent late.
Which country is this story taking place in? As laws differ per country,. But removing the family relationship, I cant believe it's legal to sell the property without even informing the tenant. That's just terrible and should be illegal.
In America it is. A landlord does not have to inform the tenants that they are selling. The new owner only have to give you 30 days notice after buying it. If tenant disagree you can file papers with the courts. That would stop the eviction from moving forwards until speaking to a judge.
Load More Replies... I wonder what this property would rent for outside of this arrangement? Its description wasn't exactly positive and I wonder what a legitimate tenant would view as a needed update. Id like to see what the new owners of the house do to it and rent charged, if it's still a rental.
Now she said it was an eviction. If it was a 14 or 30 day eviction, she could be in some serious legal trouble. Some states require giving tenants a 90 day notice that they are putting the home up for sale. It may have been her AH brother, but they both signed a lease agreement, meaning she has to follow the laws.
Curious how many times he was late with the rent. Regardless, I still would have told him I sold it or was looking to sell it so he could have time to find another place. Especially since he has kids. It's not their fault their father is a mooch.
He had 90 days they only have to give 30 days notice. You speaking as if he's being treated like family and not like it's a business.
Load More Replies... Easily.. ESH but you are definitely an AH..the only real victims here are the kids... you could have gone about it a lot better... he is your family, not some random AH.. you could have tried a little more to get him to pay his part... then if not, TELL him you are sellin first, you are a coward for doing this to your own brother and his kids... family deserves better even if they fail you..
Looks like he was waiting to take further advantage of you. Such as, once he caused you to get further behind on the mortgage, he'd offer to buy you out and you'd take his offer in desperation. You did what you had to do since he was being manipulative. No need to give him more slack to ruin you. It's unfortunate, of course.
Things can start spiraling out of control very quickly with a renter like that. You were only breaking even. You could have got in deep financial trouble, owing several house payments. You did what you had to do.
Just wow she said his rent paid mortgage and property tax but that she didnt make a profit WTF HE IS PAYING FOR YOU TO OWN A HOUSE. Landlords are the most entitled pieces of s**t. I cant stand it. She is complaining about being paid equity. Asks how he could afford a mortgage ifhe xouldnt afford rent hell he was already affording YOUR MORTGAGE B***H. This isnt a sexist thing he seems like an a*****e taking advantage of his sister but she seems like an a*****e taking advantage of everyone. Commercial landlording should be illegal.
Did you read the part about him actually NOT paying? They had an agreement. He broke his word. Whether you agree with commercial landlording or not is a different issue. And you're just rude.
Load More Replies... ESH, and this is EXACTLY why you never do financial favors (cost rent in this case) for family or friends. It will almost always bite you in the a**e.
Bad communication between the two of your caused more friction than needed. Seriously, if it was my house I would not have rented to him to begin with. Because there are kids involved, I would have had a little more compassion with your brother and politely, but firmly told him you were in process of selling the house - asking him to move - and giving him longer than 90 days to find a new home for his family. I understand your position, and I don't trust my brother and sister either, plus my family members are bad communicators like your and your brother are.
YTA for the following reasons... did she give him written notice of late payment? Doesn't sound like it, verbal isn't really good enough when dealing with tenants no matter who they are. She didn't inform her tenants that she was selling, that's extremely rude and possibly (depending on county) illegal. Brother is also TA just because you are renting from a family member, since you signed a tenancy agreement you agreed to pay rent on time, every time. Conclusion.... both haven't behaved in a reasonable adult manner
ESH. This is why we need more laws to control landlords. They have too much freedom to do whatever already. A major red flag is OP admitting that the house "isn't meant for modern" things. That's backwards, because eventually, everything will have to be updated to SOME level to keep up with the times. We are in 2023, not 1953. You can't charge 2023 rents and expect to never update the property. she even admitted the water heater was "old" so I'm on the brothers side on that one. Just because she thinks it's "fine" doesn't mean it's fine. It's old for a reason; Everything goes through wear and tear. The brother is an AH for continuing to make additional costly repairs in "exchange" for rent, which makes me believe we aren't getting the whole story on whether they really had an agreement about that or not. He should have stopped at the water heater, and other small things, and maybe taken his sister to court IF the rest of the house were truly not up to par for living.
Not being able to run a Smart TV charge five iPads and run a microwave on a single circuit doesn't mean it's unlivable. She also wasn't charging market rents, that was the whole point. If you're getting a thousand plus dollars a month profit then maybe you could do things like upgrade the circuit. Like right now I'm in a house with old wiring, I could pay 50k to bring it to modern age. I really don't want to do that. It's not a fire hazard, it just means I can't run a million devices all at once.
Load More Replies... As mentioned elsewhere, while the arrangement was technically break-even on a cash flow basis, it is likely (assuming the real estate market was not falling) that she was coming out ahead on gaining equity in the house. As she was apparently able to get a great price for the property that seems to be the case. If he had been only paying the interest portion of her payments then it would be different. Although, technically he is not assuming any of the risk of the market price of the house, so we are kind of comparing apples and oranges here.
Everyone has a different view. My view is,don't try to profit from your own family. What I noticed is the woman's coldness,not only when she said " His kids" love the yard instead of " My nieces and nephews"... There is no love lost there I see. I don't believe her brother was taking advantage,he DID make improvements. If the water tank wasn't big enough for a family SHE should have changed it even BEFORE he said anything. She didn't give a s**t about him OR his children. STA.
To be fair, brother did break agreement. However, considering he did have a family, she should have let them know that she was selling at least. No, the children are not her responsibility, but they needed to be taken into consideration before making such a rash decision without letting the parents know. If it was just the brother living alone, they yeah, fudge him. Don't rent or do business with family.
She did negotiate for them to get 90 days before eviction, thats really long. And i think sge was in the right for not telling him she was selling or he would have claimed to want to buy and string it out, or sabotage her sale.
Load More Replies... You're a giant a*****e. If you didn't want to help him out anymore I get it but you could have let him know first and gave him a heads up.
Should have let him know he was selling it before an eviction notice. Its family. Couldn't fault him for anything else. If the brother wants to buy im sure he can find a property but he obviously was going to attempt to take advantage of the situation since its family and couldn't buy a home otherwise.
She treated her brother as a commodity and wonders if she an AH. He treated her like a landlord instead of a sibling helping out. Double AH's and one basically used a 3rd party to force the other to leave their home because rent was late. Cruel and cowardice glad I'm not related to either.
ESH. Brother should've paid his rent on time. Landlord should pay for substantial upgrades like new breaker panels. "I can't afford it cuz I'm not making money on the house" is just blatantly a lie. The mortgage was subsidized, so you're not out that expense. Selling the house out from under him is just petty and dumb.
OP got him 90 days notice. It sounds like rent wasn't "late", it was actually several months in arrears. (Since none of the relatives wanted to cover it.) If he's withholding rent, why should OP give him the chance to buy the house?
Load More Replies... It wasn't because the wiring was bad. He just wanted more outlets.
Load More Replies... He had 90 day notice not zero... 3 months is a really long time.
Load More Replies... Wanting to charge five devices at once instead of two, is not being a fire hazard . Older style wiring is fine if it's still safe. You just might not be able to run as many items all in one circuit. It's okay to sell your house to a developer if you don't want to do the upgrades to bring it to modern age. Not everybody's got 50K to drop on new electric systems. Also like she said the water heater worked he just wanted a bigger one presumably to do four baths in a row. As long as the water heater met the standard for the house she wasn't obligated to buy a bigger fancyer one. 🤷
Load More Replies... He likely would have done stuff to sabotage a sale. But letting him know after the paperwork cleared would have been okay.
Load More Replies... Do people not read, he had 90 day warning. That's more than enough time to find a place to stay. Places don't even rent out more than 20 or 30 days ahead.
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