A Gay Man Explains The Ridiculous Double Standards Women Experience From His Perspective
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With the help of #MeToo movement, a problem we all knew about but rarely discussed has gained a lot more traction. Yet, whenever the conversation turns about sexual violence, many people still try to shift the blame from assailant to the victim. Therefore, many victims are left with, probably, much bigger guilt then the attacker, after having their behavior, choices, lifestyle and especially clothing questioned in an attempt to find out how they have might have provoked the attack. (Facebook cover image: Gareth Williams)
A writer and an activist Josh Weed took to Twitter to address the issue of ‘modesty culture’ that drives victim blaming even further
Image credits: The_Weed
Modesty culture suggests that women must dress in a certain way so they won’t provoke a sexual response in men. In an attempt to disprove this believe Josh raises an important question: who is responsible for their own desires – a person who’s experiencing them or people who surround him?
Well, the answer may not be so obvious to people who try to reinforce ‘modesty culture’ as a preventable measure against sexual violence.
Image credits: The_Weed
Image credits: The_Weed
Image credits: The_Weed
Image credits: The_Weed
Image credits: The_Weed
Image credits: The_Weed
Image credits: The_Weed
Image credits: The_Weed
Image credits: The_Weed
Josh goes to explain how ridiculous this responsibility shift is by offering his own experience. As a gay man, he has never felt that he has a right to control the clothing choices of other men because he might be arounsed by them.
Image credits: The_Weed
Image credits: The_Weed
Image credits: The_Weed
Image credits: The_Weed
Image credits: The_Weed
Image credits: The_Weed
Image credits: The_Weed
Image credits: The_Weed
Then he goes on to explain how damaging this sort of victim-blaming is. Telling people how to dress does not prevent them from being assaulted and it is proven to be harmful. Victims who have experienced sexual violence suffer from secondary trauma when they endure victim blaming.
Image credits: The_Weed
Image credits: The_Weed
Image credits: The_Weed
Image credits: The_Weed
Josh’s well-put explanation of why women’s clothing has nothing to do with sexual violence was well received and praised by other users. Some thank him for stating so clearly what they had been thinking the whole time, others reveal how eye-opening it was for them to read it.
Here’s how people reacted
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The swedish lawyer Elisabeth Massi Fritz got fed up with her clients getting asked about their underwear they were wearing when they were raped. So this is what she did: "I asked the perpetrator to describe their underwear in a questioning and was asked what importance these have in the case. My answer was 'as important as my client's string panties'." So please, tell every lawyer you know to do the same. What underwear a woman wears is only a concern for herself.
I agree - any rape case should ask what underwear the suspect was wearing at the time - read something about this - there were some weird things. Like - eww - leggings with "specific" cut-outs
Sadly the perpertrator does not usually get caught wearing his "special" outfit
To be honest - string panties are often just because too many layers. I remember going on a night out wearing tights, an underskirt a skirt and tight elastane control thing. God help anyone trying to get past all those - even I struggled to get the control thing off at the end of the night.
This comment is hidden. Click here to view.
Spoiler: Massi Fritz strictly wore only granny panties.
Yeah! She totally looks like she does that: https://images.svd.se/v2/images/22685e5b-3d86-4092-b3df-c1ac60bc9934?fit=crop&h=1066&q=80&upscale=true&w=750&s=9bf94d8daaeff09398c2220c36cbc15d4e8d9e3c Have you ever tried to use google before yu wrte something stupid online?
Cannot upvote this enough. Why should someone else's lack of control be my responsibility? I can dress frumpy and it's still possible that a man will be aroused by something. The goddamn wind can blow and a man can be aroused, yet I should be able to successfully mitigate the effects of that? News flash women don't usually succeed despite the "steps" that they take to protect themselves and yet it's still somehow their fault.
Women in their '80s get raped. Coma patients get raped. Physically disabled people get raped. Mentally disabled people get raped at a higher rate than just about any other group. ...///... Rape is 100% the fault of the rapist. There is no debate. Anyone who makes excuses for rapists deserves a smack on the face with a dead salmon and to sleep in the garage forever.
Many young girls in parts of the world (such as India) where it is traditional to be well covered up get raped.
Exactly. Exactly.
Fair point. I think a big factor in rapes is about establishing power and dominance, rather than just simply sexual arousal.
not in my garage tho. and that poor innocent dead salmon...!
Children get raped -usually by older males within the family /friends/ teacher/ priest groups.
In South Africa 3 month year old babies get raped.
@Naima - I was planning on curing it and serving it up with cream cheese later.
I agree with everything you are saying except one major point. You use the term "man". This is a falsehood. Try using the term "male". A man is someone who was brought up to know right from wrong, and respect for others. A "man" would not see rape as an option, ever. And for the record, blaming the victims for their choice of clothing is a cowardly move, I agree.
He's right on the "don't tell people what to wear" front, but I think there are more reasons that people do so, beyond their own arousal. Some may do it because they don't want others looking at their partner, daughter, etc, others may do it because they're jealous that she looks better than they do. It's still wrong, just saying there are other reasons behind it.
I agree. My father did encourage me not to wear revealing clothing. I think he was trying to protect me from dangers of the not- so- great world. Once, I did wear shorts to school, and I was extremely, unbelievably self-conscious. Mostly because I was worried about staring. Honestly, I'd rather set my legs on fire than go to school wearing shorts. I can't imagine feeling empowered by wearing shorts or tank tops. But that's just me. I don't heat up easily, anyway (I get colder more easily, though, so I wear jackets a lot of the time).
Amen. This has also baffled me for a long time, about how the victim of assault is somehow seen as being 'responsible' for it. I could also never understand just why many men seem incapable of controlling themselves, yet they want to control everything else around them instead. And if something or someone doesn't obey them, they get angry, and often violent. Then the victim somehow gets the blame for it, despite it being because of his lack of control. No excuses for those who can't control their own arousal. It's their fault, no one else's.
Well and the idiots here like John and his buddies are telling us that they're too stupid and weak to keep it in their pants. Given that they're a bunch or MRA incels who hate women and feel entitled to them, you'd think they'd stop insulting themselves, but I guess they're too stupid to see that.
Aunt Messy they have been trolling BP for ages now. I started off challenging them, then realised their irrelevance and now I don't even see them anymore. Thank you BP for hiding low graded comments.
And now 2-10 or whoever that is
They don’t lack control. Rape is all about control. These attackers don’t just act on the spur of the moment, they plan what they do. There’s never been a rape in a place when there are likely to be consequences for the attacker, even in highly sexually charged environments like sex clubs. They attack when they think they’ll get away with it and largely they’re right.
Think about what people (judges and jurors) who excuse this are saying. They are basically saying that if they had been there, THEY would have raped her, too.
The swedish lawyer Elisabeth Massi Fritz got fed up with her clients getting asked about their underwear they were wearing when they were raped. So this is what she did: "I asked the perpetrator to describe their underwear in a questioning and was asked what importance these have in the case. My answer was 'as important as my client's string panties'." So please, tell every lawyer you know to do the same. What underwear a woman wears is only a concern for herself.
I agree - any rape case should ask what underwear the suspect was wearing at the time - read something about this - there were some weird things. Like - eww - leggings with "specific" cut-outs
Sadly the perpertrator does not usually get caught wearing his "special" outfit
To be honest - string panties are often just because too many layers. I remember going on a night out wearing tights, an underskirt a skirt and tight elastane control thing. God help anyone trying to get past all those - even I struggled to get the control thing off at the end of the night.
This comment is hidden. Click here to view.
Spoiler: Massi Fritz strictly wore only granny panties.
Yeah! She totally looks like she does that: https://images.svd.se/v2/images/22685e5b-3d86-4092-b3df-c1ac60bc9934?fit=crop&h=1066&q=80&upscale=true&w=750&s=9bf94d8daaeff09398c2220c36cbc15d4e8d9e3c Have you ever tried to use google before yu wrte something stupid online?
Cannot upvote this enough. Why should someone else's lack of control be my responsibility? I can dress frumpy and it's still possible that a man will be aroused by something. The goddamn wind can blow and a man can be aroused, yet I should be able to successfully mitigate the effects of that? News flash women don't usually succeed despite the "steps" that they take to protect themselves and yet it's still somehow their fault.
Women in their '80s get raped. Coma patients get raped. Physically disabled people get raped. Mentally disabled people get raped at a higher rate than just about any other group. ...///... Rape is 100% the fault of the rapist. There is no debate. Anyone who makes excuses for rapists deserves a smack on the face with a dead salmon and to sleep in the garage forever.
Many young girls in parts of the world (such as India) where it is traditional to be well covered up get raped.
Exactly. Exactly.
Fair point. I think a big factor in rapes is about establishing power and dominance, rather than just simply sexual arousal.
not in my garage tho. and that poor innocent dead salmon...!
Children get raped -usually by older males within the family /friends/ teacher/ priest groups.
In South Africa 3 month year old babies get raped.
@Naima - I was planning on curing it and serving it up with cream cheese later.
I agree with everything you are saying except one major point. You use the term "man". This is a falsehood. Try using the term "male". A man is someone who was brought up to know right from wrong, and respect for others. A "man" would not see rape as an option, ever. And for the record, blaming the victims for their choice of clothing is a cowardly move, I agree.
He's right on the "don't tell people what to wear" front, but I think there are more reasons that people do so, beyond their own arousal. Some may do it because they don't want others looking at their partner, daughter, etc, others may do it because they're jealous that she looks better than they do. It's still wrong, just saying there are other reasons behind it.
I agree. My father did encourage me not to wear revealing clothing. I think he was trying to protect me from dangers of the not- so- great world. Once, I did wear shorts to school, and I was extremely, unbelievably self-conscious. Mostly because I was worried about staring. Honestly, I'd rather set my legs on fire than go to school wearing shorts. I can't imagine feeling empowered by wearing shorts or tank tops. But that's just me. I don't heat up easily, anyway (I get colder more easily, though, so I wear jackets a lot of the time).
Amen. This has also baffled me for a long time, about how the victim of assault is somehow seen as being 'responsible' for it. I could also never understand just why many men seem incapable of controlling themselves, yet they want to control everything else around them instead. And if something or someone doesn't obey them, they get angry, and often violent. Then the victim somehow gets the blame for it, despite it being because of his lack of control. No excuses for those who can't control their own arousal. It's their fault, no one else's.
Well and the idiots here like John and his buddies are telling us that they're too stupid and weak to keep it in their pants. Given that they're a bunch or MRA incels who hate women and feel entitled to them, you'd think they'd stop insulting themselves, but I guess they're too stupid to see that.
Aunt Messy they have been trolling BP for ages now. I started off challenging them, then realised their irrelevance and now I don't even see them anymore. Thank you BP for hiding low graded comments.
And now 2-10 or whoever that is
They don’t lack control. Rape is all about control. These attackers don’t just act on the spur of the moment, they plan what they do. There’s never been a rape in a place when there are likely to be consequences for the attacker, even in highly sexually charged environments like sex clubs. They attack when they think they’ll get away with it and largely they’re right.
Think about what people (judges and jurors) who excuse this are saying. They are basically saying that if they had been there, THEY would have raped her, too.