Person Asks If They Were A Jerk To Refuse To Plan A BBQ Event For Their Church For Free
If you work for yourself, you know there is a risk of running into that certain someone who will refuse to dish out for the job you have done. However, when it’s your own employer who isn’t even paying you the minimum wage – yikes.
This guy worked for a local church that he had a special connection to, and as mentioned earlier, the pay wasn’t all too great, yet he did it because the folks there were his only “family.” But, you know what they say, just because they’re family – it doesn’t mean they’re great people.
More info: Reddit
Pastor asked a church employee to organize and work at a BBQ event on his day off
Image credits: Josh Eckstein (not the actual image)
But when the guy pondered about pay, he got told that there would be none as he’d be doing it “for God”
Image credits: Luis Quintero (not the actual image)
Image credits: Allef Vinicius (not the actual image)
Image source: u/tway123123234234
“AITA for laughing when my pastor/boss told me I wasn’t getting paid for organizing an event?” – this internet user took to one of Reddit’s most honorable communities to ask its members if he’s indeed a jerk for laughing at his employer and then quitting on the spot after he refused to pay for a job. The post managed to garner over 6.3K upvotes as well as 686 comments discussing the situation.
The fact that our world is totally money-oriented and that we have no choice but to submit to it is not particularly shocking. Perhaps evolution is to blame for our all-time desire for status, or some bigwig in 600 BCE who is believed to have minted the first official currency – whatever it is, one thing we know for sure is that we pay to exist, and it’s not fun.
Having a stable job is vital if you want to survive, and if you’re lucky enough to get a position in an appealing environment with a boss who treats you like a human, you might even get something out of it, like occasional fulfillment, for instance.
Now, all jokes aside, not everything is that depressing. Although our world is filled with greedy individuals who want power and power only, finding a position that ticks all your boxes is possible, so – kudos to all the employers who take their subordinates’ labor seriously.
However, evil still exists, and people do take advantage of others for their own sake.
There are a bazillion issues that could come up with employment: lack of recognition, poor work-life balance, no potential growth, an office staffed with gossiping high schoolers, pay discrepancies, and the most popular one, crappy management.
To really paint a picture, according to a piece from Officevibe, an online platform that offers managers an employee experience solution to build better relationships with their people and create the conditions for great work, a Gallup study of 7,272 Americans revealed that one in two had left their job to get away from their manager.
Crazy, but not that surprising, eh?
He then laughed in his face, and when he realized that the pastor was being serious – quit on the spot
Image credits: cottonbro studio (not the actual image)
Well, the star of today’s article is no exception and has also found himself in a bind with his superior.
Everybody knows that failing to pay an employee for completed work is, inarguably, criminal – however, when you turn down an internship just to work at a place that is barely bringing you enough to stay afloat simply because you consider them your only “family,” it pains significantly more.
Let’s do a quick recap: the 23-year-old started working for his church with “garbage” pay because the people there had helped him through some tough times. He did some general work, but his main focus revolved around finance budgeting, so when the pastor asked him to organize a BBQ event on his day off, naturally, he wondered about the pay.
But, instead of getting a number, the pastor straight up told him that there’d be none as he’d be doing it “for God” and that he shouldn’t expect to be paid on a Sunday.
Great, blame it on the deity!
Anywho, long story short, the guy laughed in his face and quit on the spot but later received a “second-chance” text, which essentially provoked him to take it online and establish whether he should just suck it up.
Many Redditors said that while the church did help the author when he needed it, the fact that they were openly trying to mooch off of his time and resources was downright unacceptable.
At the end of the day, these spiritual people did help a struggling soul, but, as it’s universally known, when you do good deeds, it doesn’t mean that you now get to exploit others for it.
What is your take on the story, though?
Fellow online community members shared their thoughts and opinions on the matter
IMO, it's ok to request volunteers from the congregation for various things- I would volunteer to do outdoor clean-up, cook for a pancake breakfast, and sometimes lay read when I was a member. Employees of the church are different, they generally got paid for most if not all work done for the church. Volunteer work should be done by the members, not the staff.
My church relies heavily on volunteers, but I guarantee that any of the staff members who work for a wage are never asked to do more because they already do a lot. The volunteer roles always are up for members to assist with, which, luckily, we have quite a few who do (a lot of retirees with a lot of time on their hands). It's so sad that they're going to shoot themselves in the foot by losing this guy who was willing to help them out as a thank you but now will realize he's better off elsewhere. All over a BBQ for crying out loud.
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F**k the church. F**k Christianity. F**k all religion. It's nothing but a several thousand year old scam.
Exactly so many brainwash evil hypocrites that have so much power and steal from the poor literally
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I worked at a bank, where a pastor of a small church was paid $3,400/week. He deposited these checks, written to him, into his personal account every week. I heard his (tax free) housing was free, provided by the church. Wasn't a very nice guy outside of his church group. My biological father is apparently a pastor... I don't know him, because he ran out on me and my mom when I was 2 🙃 but has at least 9 other children, 5 of them being with his current wife. The pastor of the youth group I attended as a child, gave up their own daughter to a group home at age 16 simply because she refused to join their church. So yeah... my opinions about organized religion are best kept to myself. Please don't downvote, I'm not bashing - you do you.
If possible, I would upvote a hundred times... These are not things that seldomly occur, but mostly covered up... I hope you are doing well now and are happy with the life you live now as I hope that poor girl that was casted out of her family because she wanted to live her life the way she wanted it...
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Once upon a time, I taught reading to the lowest 20% of my school in grades 3, 4, & 5, and I had a wonderful young lady in my grade 5 classes that read at maybe a 2nd grade level but with zero comprehension. She was missing from school for several weeks and I was growing concerned cuz of how far behind she was already but her absence was excused.... When she returned I gave her a big hug and told her we missed her, asking, "Where have you been?". No joke, she missed several weeks of school cuz her "mom needed help with cleaning the church". I told her school was REALLY important but she replied, "my mom says the church is more important.". So yeah, fúck you, organized religion.
That's insane, my parents church (the Mormon church) was practically perfect compared to that. They just clean for like 2 hours on Saturday, people and families coming in based on last name once a month except for the person "called" (essentially volunteer, except you're asked to do it rather than choosing to do it) to the cleaning representative (don't remember the real name), who does less actual cleaning but organizes the people there and gets in contact with the church for materials and shows up every Saturday. Then they do a deep clean one day a year (possibly every few years, can't remember) where EVERYBODY shows up, including staff who do more technical work and help organize the much larger scale clean. I assumed most churches did something similar but that's absolutely insane.
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The Catholic church is one of the wealthiest businesses in the world. They don't need free labor. If they are really hurting, why not sell some of the millions (possibly billions) in art that they own, and then maybe use that money to actually help the poor like they are supposed to.
Don't want to sound selfish but you should take care of your own needs and responsibilities first then consider volunteering if you can. Just because the church helped him out doesn't make him their slave. Surely the church was helping him out of kindness and not so they could demand things in return right? They wouldn't do something petty like using their members in a manipulative way and then guilt trip him. Thats not very Christian.....or maybe it is. NTA.
Trust me, it's not. It's sad that some churches (not THE Church) take advantage of their volunteers and workers. It's an embarrassment to the body of Christ, and only reinforces any and all existing misconceptions about Christianity. Not all churches behave in this fashion, so please don't criticize all because of the actions of some.
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NTA, OP. Sundays were meant to be days on which the devout do not work. Go do that internship instead so you can be better prepared for the future. Churches shouldn't enslave nor bully.
I've read the story and all the comments before writing my own... What came up often was that the OP "owed" the church for their help to him when he needed it... But, expecting/demanding something in return because you did something good for them is wrong. You help out someone because you want to, not to get something back, in that case you make a trade, right? Back to the story, OP already did more than enough as a payback by working for them without getting payed properly, because he felt obligated to do so, as they helped him out in a time of need. Lucky enough, OP also started to figure out on the moment that pastor told him his time should be donated for free that there is a difference between being exploited and being asked. Good for him he stepped out, he was proven right when being harrased by other people. I hope he finds a great job and gets to live a happy, healthy life where he isn't bothered by all those so called religions.
Another unfortunate example of some Christians not living to their religion's tenants. I think this pastor forgot that you pay people who do with. Unless those people specifically volunteer. Should have ask the congregation for volunteers up they don't want to pay their worker.
I’ve been in the church community before and saw their hypocrisy up close myself. I would get talked into doing work for the church too - like cleaning the facility and doing free babysitting when I had been laid off and was low on funds. But I agreed because I felt I was doing it to be part of the church community. That young man needs to move on with his life and find a real job opportunity. He was being used by this pastor, who knew exactly what he was doing - the manipulative bastard. Disgusting behaviour. Don’t lose your faith young man - there is a difference between religion and spirituality.
A gift (what help they gave you) is supposed to be freely given, not used as leverage against you. This job is separate from that; labor involves exchange. Doing stuff for God or church doesn't mean you don't need an income. It also doesn't mean you don't get a say in what you give. I am so sorry the church is acting this way. That's really manipulative and judgy and unloving, just to name a few. I would express these things briefly and carefully and remind them that God's love is not conditional, and they are literally saying "If you don't do this, we won't love and accept you any more." That's not love, that's coercion.
For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.
Also by the picture they were using for the story it looks like you're in a Catholic Church hopefully you're not if you are you should definitely just get out of that because they do a lot of things that Jesus said not to do.
Catholics have ordained priest's not pastors. Pastor is a title used by a number of christian protestant denominations.
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People need to separate those running the church and being a Christ follower as its not the same thing. The church is a business like any other business. So these people come with their crappy attitude, poor leadership, unrealistic demands, abuse of power on account of " Christianity". THEIR interpretation. It's THEIR organized religion, like any other ORGANIZED religion. Which god do they serve, is usually my question. It's not the one in The Bible. Most churches have a sitting board involved in checks and balances, making sure the work of Christ .....not the religion ....is executed appropriately which includes the church ministers roles, their compensation, ministeries like children's, Biblical educational programs for adults, grief groups, groups for those affected by divorce, addictions, community outreach for the homeless, struggling single parents, nurturing young teens, imigrant families etc etc. Dude you need to remove yourself from this "church". They are bad news.
So churches are a business like any other business? They should pay taxes like any other business then.
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Sorta sad that people hate Christians so much in the comments... not all of us all like the a******s described in the story. At my church we rely on volunteers a whole lot, but the people are fine with it and it's a really nice community, I even volunteer too. If someone is unable to volunteer or doesn't want to, then we don't ostracize them for that.
Consider that almost everyone in the US has one, usually multiple, bad christian stories. I grew up in the church and I've met maybe 4 real ones through it and one in college. I live in Texas. That doesn't say much for the type of folks that become christians. I went to multiple churches in multiple cities, and types of cities, so I have a pretty good amount of data. I will say that I've found pentecostals to be the nicest. I'm pagan now. Also christians are just as in your face as the lgbt, and it makes us just as irritated at you as you are at them. Maybe not you personally, I don't know you, but as in the group you joined.
Load More Replies... This is the typical conundrum when a church hires a congregant. It's hard for everyone involved to know in which role the worker/member is operating. It's a hard balance and can cause lots of misunderstanding. It'm much better if there is clear division between the two roles - work areas A, B, & C of the church and volunteer in area D that is not at all related to A, B, & C.
NTA. OP is experiencing first hand what Christianity means and how Christians act towards someone outside their norm. Keep away.
Info: Wer do churches in the US get their money from? Do they just rely on donations or do they have other sources?
It's all donations from their members. On top of that, churches don't pay ANY taxes though they use public services. So they leech off of everyone basically.
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The church should have set up a fundraising ministry for starters. If not that they need to have a sign up sheet for volunteers to do the work. I am catholic and this is how we go about things. If you are being paid as an employee then that's what they need to do is pay you. Now if you signed up on a volunteer sheet then it would be clear that you are volunteering for this event at the moment. The preacher is just not organized. I wish people would stop being judgmental towards religion. Jesus died on the cross because we all make mistakes and are sinners. That means that of course the word " everybody" in " everybody is a sinner" includes "everybody ". Christians and everyone else is included in "everybody ". Anyways, the kid is 23 and young people make mistakes to by getting over emotional and handling things by emotion. If it was me I would have just told the preacher that it would be alot better to have a sign up sheet for volunteers.
This reminds me of what happened to my father many years ago. He was an architect and was asked by his priest to design and oversee the construction of a new multi-purpose building for the church. My father spent many long hours on the project and the result was both functional and beautiful; however, when he asked for payment, he was told that as a good Catholic he should be willing to donate his time and talent. My father was furious and we ended up joining a different parish. I had recently seen “The Agony and the Ecstasy” and quipped, “If the Church wouldn’t pay Michelangelo for painting the Sistine Chapel, what made you think they’d pay you?”
Turning down the Internship was a bad idea. What you should have done is taken that job and offered to give the Church volunteer time (like 4-8 hours a week) for doing the accounting. This would have allowed you to repay for their help but say no to other volunteer work.
NTA. I work at a christian organization and when I work a day on the weekend, I get a day off the next week. It's just common sense imo and has nothing to do with "for god". Interestingly enough there a lot of different opinions in the same faith, I think everyone has to choose what to believe in themselves (to some extend). Also people change and it's nice that you were saved, but nothing on earth is for eternity, so feel free to get free.
Not OK. If your work asks you to volunteer to do your job, it’s time to look for a new job. Immediately.
It's a fine line because it's his church... Honestly work for God pays off way more than any job, but that's only how I see it. Also I understand that not everyone can afford to be a volunteer. That's okay. The only problem I see in the way this person handled the situation, was the hot headedness, quit on the spot type of thing, meaning he was thinking about this for a long time. Point 1) he could kindly refuse the Sunday thing, point 2) God doesn't force anyone and doesn't want anything done half heartedly. I hope all his work was not put in to please those people or to "pay them back" but as a service to God. If you do what you do to please others, you're in for way more unpleasant situations in the future.
It could well be that the church needs the money from the event for the budget. The OP didn't say if the pastor is paid, gets a living wage or a stipend, or how the church is doing financially. That the OP says he was told to "find money" doesn't indicate the church is flush with cash. I would probably do the event and recruit as many helpers as possible. I would also sit down with the pastor and any related communities to explain that you need to be paid next time or you may not be able to commit.
I was a professional bookkeeper and was self employed. For those who don't understand, that means I am responsible for paying all taxes & insurance myself. My SIL wanted to open her own barbershop and asked me to help her get set up (taxes, licenses, etc.) I told her I'd be happy to help and that the first hour was free. She gives me a really strange look and asked how much I would charge after that. I told her $20/hour (this was about 15 years ago). So she says she thought I'd at least give her a family discount. I told her I WAS giving her a family discount as my normal rate is $32/hour. She basically told me "nevermind" and then bitched about it to my brother - who set her straight real f*cking fast. He told her that this is how I make my living, that I happen to be really good at what I do (I did his books when he was self employed) and that she should be thankful I even considered helping her. She called and apologized, but I told her working with family was a bad idea.
YTA. It's one day of basic volunteerism flipping burgers etc. It sounds like your real issue is with the church and the amount they're paying you. Churches ask their staff to do stuff like this all the time especially if they're small and don't have a large budget. It sounds like you were cool with it as long as it benefited you, but now that you're working for them, you're tired of getting paid so little. It's good you quit. Now you can get a better paying job and if you want to volunteer with them you can or don't without any obligation.
Did you sign a contract when they started paying you? If so then they need to pay you minimum wage, if they haven't you could talk to an employee consultant... you'll probably be told that there is nothing you can do, but you'll learn what to look for in the future. As for helping out fir the BBQ, its a bit of a 2 way thing. Usually these things are done on a voluntary level, but so long as you didn't get all sarcastic when asking about pay then it's a valid question. Quitting a job without a backup plan was probably a silly move. Yes they helped you, but charity should be given without thought if reward Luke 6:35. But that goes both ways
My towns public library wanted to know if the staff members were coming to a fundraising event. It’s very expensive and the staff is part time and payed peanuts. A staff member explained that even if they scraped up the money to go, their experience was that they would be asked to work. They could be dressed to the nines and some person would ask them to find another folding table, drag it out and set it up.
YTA for how you reacted, but NTA for not wanting to do it. Honestly, as a member of a congregation, you shouldn't do anything that your heart isn't in. Or try to meet him halfway if you feel bad about it. Tell him you will do certain task but not everything he ask. For example: you could find the event space and people who would be willing to volunteer. OR, if you could volunteer but only for two hours or something. But NTA for saying no. It's your choice. Even though it would please God if you did help, but not necessary. I also wouldn't have just up and quit, now what are you going to do for work? Is that internship position still available?
This is an example of Anti-Krystic values that use the face and name of God and Krystic force. True Christ and its meaning is being muddied and lost. Has been for a long time....Ascension Glossary talks about this and many other topics.
Typical greedy hypocrites christians parasites, why do these evil counts have so much power to control half the country!??? Disgusting fascists
And people wonder why I was upset that my local polling place got moved to the inside of a church.
NTA. I worked for a church for nearly 20 years, and I can attest to the fact that churches can be the biggest abusers of workers and volunteers. And yes, I am a Christian. OP should never have passed on his internship. He may owe the church for helping him during a rough period in his life, but that doesn't mean that he has to give up his future. The pastor knew full well that he was taking advantage of an employee, and probably rallied his flying monkeys disguised as saints to back him up. OP should definitely change jobs and churches.
NTA, but just a compendium of bad decisions. if homeless and then were offered a job at a firm, GET THE FN JOB! Then pay back your debt with the church with free time ad honorem work. and in that position, when church ask for work on a BBQ on a Sunday, do it for free and consider it part of the debt you are paying.
Just listen to Arcade Fire's track, Intervention. Tells you all you need to know about these churches.
Well if you're real believer in Christ I'm following Jesus then you would be doing it for him and praying that that organization or barbecue would lead people to Christ that's what you should be focusing on if that's not your priority and you're just worried about money that you need to reevaluate your relationship with Christ and what your priorities are. You already said you yourself chose to deny that other good-paying job nobody forced you to you made that decision on your own so you can't complain about money and barely making it by on decisions that you made. You can be a member of the church and still get paid by the church to do certain things but that doesn't mean you have to be paid for every single thing you do if that's what you want is money for everything you do from the church then it sounds like you're not really there for God at all you're just there to make money and because you think somebody helps you out and you owe them a favor which honestly will get you nothing
Unpopular opinion but I personally think youre in the wrong here the pastor asked you and several other members for help organizing a BBQ for the church, he wasn't hiring you for the job, he technically didn't need to pay you. I remember my church growing up, we always had events like BBQs ,potlucks, Halloween festivals for the neighborhood, Vacation Bible School during summer, and people gladly volunteered their time to help and no one expected to get paid. You also weren't expected to do everything on your own since he asked other church members to help, did the other members expect to get paid too or was it just you (OP) if so why should you be the only one being paid.
but he didn't volunteer, he was just told to do it. If the pastor asked and he came up, that'd be a different story all together
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Most churches rely on people "working" for free. Its called and accepted to be service to God and each other. Regardless of thoughts towards religion, churches operate no differently to other community activities that need volunteers. The pastor probably asked him because he could be relied on to do a good job. Its OPs young faith that has him thinking he gets paid for all work. But this is learned as you grow in faith. The pastor has reached out to him. He has another shot to be a part of what is likely a really great community.
The pastor should do it himself instead of thinking someone who barely gets by should give up more for the scam that is his church.
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This is just my opinion... if a church of any denomination that had been helping me asked me to do something like that, I'd probably do it. He'd have been helping the community, getting to socialize, and he probably would have gotten to eat as well. That's just me.
Yeah my church relies on volunteers as well. Every church I've been a part of does as well. It seems this guy was on staff and maybe didn't know what he was getting into? Ministry does not pay. Ever. That pastor makes a living wage, sure, but barely in most cases. Larger churches can be different but they are the exception, not the rule. Anyone complaining about not getting paid to minister is just naive IMO. Still, this pastor is acting like a d**k for sure. If you're asking someone to volunteer, then be grateful when they say yes, and understanding when they say no. If you're paying OP already to do other things, paying for this shouldn't be a big deal. I'm going ESH.
You dont know hoe the US relgions system works do you. Most pastors make moee then enough to get by as the church uses guilt trips to make you do as they want, like donating, which doesnt get taxed.
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He repaid them by working there for a s**t wage. They don’t own him for life.
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So is the way 99% of "christians" act. Completely turning their back of the teachings of their namesake.
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No. They are basically asking him to work for free on what seems to be one of his only two days off.
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IMO, it's ok to request volunteers from the congregation for various things- I would volunteer to do outdoor clean-up, cook for a pancake breakfast, and sometimes lay read when I was a member. Employees of the church are different, they generally got paid for most if not all work done for the church. Volunteer work should be done by the members, not the staff.
My church relies heavily on volunteers, but I guarantee that any of the staff members who work for a wage are never asked to do more because they already do a lot. The volunteer roles always are up for members to assist with, which, luckily, we have quite a few who do (a lot of retirees with a lot of time on their hands). It's so sad that they're going to shoot themselves in the foot by losing this guy who was willing to help them out as a thank you but now will realize he's better off elsewhere. All over a BBQ for crying out loud.
Load More Replies... F**k the church. F**k Christianity. F**k all religion. It's nothing but a several thousand year old scam.
Exactly so many brainwash evil hypocrites that have so much power and steal from the poor literally
Load More Replies... I worked at a bank, where a pastor of a small church was paid $3,400/week. He deposited these checks, written to him, into his personal account every week. I heard his (tax free) housing was free, provided by the church. Wasn't a very nice guy outside of his church group. My biological father is apparently a pastor... I don't know him, because he ran out on me and my mom when I was 2 🙃 but has at least 9 other children, 5 of them being with his current wife. The pastor of the youth group I attended as a child, gave up their own daughter to a group home at age 16 simply because she refused to join their church. So yeah... my opinions about organized religion are best kept to myself. Please don't downvote, I'm not bashing - you do you.
If possible, I would upvote a hundred times... These are not things that seldomly occur, but mostly covered up... I hope you are doing well now and are happy with the life you live now as I hope that poor girl that was casted out of her family because she wanted to live her life the way she wanted it...
Load More Replies... Once upon a time, I taught reading to the lowest 20% of my school in grades 3, 4, & 5, and I had a wonderful young lady in my grade 5 classes that read at maybe a 2nd grade level but with zero comprehension. She was missing from school for several weeks and I was growing concerned cuz of how far behind she was already but her absence was excused.... When she returned I gave her a big hug and told her we missed her, asking, "Where have you been?". No joke, she missed several weeks of school cuz her "mom needed help with cleaning the church". I told her school was REALLY important but she replied, "my mom says the church is more important.". So yeah, fúck you, organized religion.
That's insane, my parents church (the Mormon church) was practically perfect compared to that. They just clean for like 2 hours on Saturday, people and families coming in based on last name once a month except for the person "called" (essentially volunteer, except you're asked to do it rather than choosing to do it) to the cleaning representative (don't remember the real name), who does less actual cleaning but organizes the people there and gets in contact with the church for materials and shows up every Saturday. Then they do a deep clean one day a year (possibly every few years, can't remember) where EVERYBODY shows up, including staff who do more technical work and help organize the much larger scale clean. I assumed most churches did something similar but that's absolutely insane.
Load More Replies... The Catholic church is one of the wealthiest businesses in the world. They don't need free labor. If they are really hurting, why not sell some of the millions (possibly billions) in art that they own, and then maybe use that money to actually help the poor like they are supposed to.
Don't want to sound selfish but you should take care of your own needs and responsibilities first then consider volunteering if you can. Just because the church helped him out doesn't make him their slave. Surely the church was helping him out of kindness and not so they could demand things in return right? They wouldn't do something petty like using their members in a manipulative way and then guilt trip him. Thats not very Christian.....or maybe it is. NTA.
Trust me, it's not. It's sad that some churches (not THE Church) take advantage of their volunteers and workers. It's an embarrassment to the body of Christ, and only reinforces any and all existing misconceptions about Christianity. Not all churches behave in this fashion, so please don't criticize all because of the actions of some.
Load More Replies... NTA, OP. Sundays were meant to be days on which the devout do not work. Go do that internship instead so you can be better prepared for the future. Churches shouldn't enslave nor bully.
I've read the story and all the comments before writing my own... What came up often was that the OP "owed" the church for their help to him when he needed it... But, expecting/demanding something in return because you did something good for them is wrong. You help out someone because you want to, not to get something back, in that case you make a trade, right? Back to the story, OP already did more than enough as a payback by working for them without getting payed properly, because he felt obligated to do so, as they helped him out in a time of need. Lucky enough, OP also started to figure out on the moment that pastor told him his time should be donated for free that there is a difference between being exploited and being asked. Good for him he stepped out, he was proven right when being harrased by other people. I hope he finds a great job and gets to live a happy, healthy life where he isn't bothered by all those so called religions.
Another unfortunate example of some Christians not living to their religion's tenants. I think this pastor forgot that you pay people who do with. Unless those people specifically volunteer. Should have ask the congregation for volunteers up they don't want to pay their worker.
I’ve been in the church community before and saw their hypocrisy up close myself. I would get talked into doing work for the church too - like cleaning the facility and doing free babysitting when I had been laid off and was low on funds. But I agreed because I felt I was doing it to be part of the church community. That young man needs to move on with his life and find a real job opportunity. He was being used by this pastor, who knew exactly what he was doing - the manipulative bastard. Disgusting behaviour. Don’t lose your faith young man - there is a difference between religion and spirituality.
A gift (what help they gave you) is supposed to be freely given, not used as leverage against you. This job is separate from that; labor involves exchange. Doing stuff for God or church doesn't mean you don't need an income. It also doesn't mean you don't get a say in what you give. I am so sorry the church is acting this way. That's really manipulative and judgy and unloving, just to name a few. I would express these things briefly and carefully and remind them that God's love is not conditional, and they are literally saying "If you don't do this, we won't love and accept you any more." That's not love, that's coercion.
For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.
Also by the picture they were using for the story it looks like you're in a Catholic Church hopefully you're not if you are you should definitely just get out of that because they do a lot of things that Jesus said not to do.
Catholics have ordained priest's not pastors. Pastor is a title used by a number of christian protestant denominations.
Load More Replies... People need to separate those running the church and being a Christ follower as its not the same thing. The church is a business like any other business. So these people come with their crappy attitude, poor leadership, unrealistic demands, abuse of power on account of " Christianity". THEIR interpretation. It's THEIR organized religion, like any other ORGANIZED religion. Which god do they serve, is usually my question. It's not the one in The Bible. Most churches have a sitting board involved in checks and balances, making sure the work of Christ .....not the religion ....is executed appropriately which includes the church ministers roles, their compensation, ministeries like children's, Biblical educational programs for adults, grief groups, groups for those affected by divorce, addictions, community outreach for the homeless, struggling single parents, nurturing young teens, imigrant families etc etc. Dude you need to remove yourself from this "church". They are bad news.
So churches are a business like any other business? They should pay taxes like any other business then.
Load More Replies... Sorta sad that people hate Christians so much in the comments... not all of us all like the a******s described in the story. At my church we rely on volunteers a whole lot, but the people are fine with it and it's a really nice community, I even volunteer too. If someone is unable to volunteer or doesn't want to, then we don't ostracize them for that.
Consider that almost everyone in the US has one, usually multiple, bad christian stories. I grew up in the church and I've met maybe 4 real ones through it and one in college. I live in Texas. That doesn't say much for the type of folks that become christians. I went to multiple churches in multiple cities, and types of cities, so I have a pretty good amount of data. I will say that I've found pentecostals to be the nicest. I'm pagan now. Also christians are just as in your face as the lgbt, and it makes us just as irritated at you as you are at them. Maybe not you personally, I don't know you, but as in the group you joined.
Load More Replies... This is the typical conundrum when a church hires a congregant. It's hard for everyone involved to know in which role the worker/member is operating. It's a hard balance and can cause lots of misunderstanding. It'm much better if there is clear division between the two roles - work areas A, B, & C of the church and volunteer in area D that is not at all related to A, B, & C.
NTA. OP is experiencing first hand what Christianity means and how Christians act towards someone outside their norm. Keep away.
Info: Wer do churches in the US get their money from? Do they just rely on donations or do they have other sources?
It's all donations from their members. On top of that, churches don't pay ANY taxes though they use public services. So they leech off of everyone basically.
Load More Replies... The church should have set up a fundraising ministry for starters. If not that they need to have a sign up sheet for volunteers to do the work. I am catholic and this is how we go about things. If you are being paid as an employee then that's what they need to do is pay you. Now if you signed up on a volunteer sheet then it would be clear that you are volunteering for this event at the moment. The preacher is just not organized. I wish people would stop being judgmental towards religion. Jesus died on the cross because we all make mistakes and are sinners. That means that of course the word " everybody" in " everybody is a sinner" includes "everybody ". Christians and everyone else is included in "everybody ". Anyways, the kid is 23 and young people make mistakes to by getting over emotional and handling things by emotion. If it was me I would have just told the preacher that it would be alot better to have a sign up sheet for volunteers.
This reminds me of what happened to my father many years ago. He was an architect and was asked by his priest to design and oversee the construction of a new multi-purpose building for the church. My father spent many long hours on the project and the result was both functional and beautiful; however, when he asked for payment, he was told that as a good Catholic he should be willing to donate his time and talent. My father was furious and we ended up joining a different parish. I had recently seen “The Agony and the Ecstasy” and quipped, “If the Church wouldn’t pay Michelangelo for painting the Sistine Chapel, what made you think they’d pay you?”
Turning down the Internship was a bad idea. What you should have done is taken that job and offered to give the Church volunteer time (like 4-8 hours a week) for doing the accounting. This would have allowed you to repay for their help but say no to other volunteer work.
NTA. I work at a christian organization and when I work a day on the weekend, I get a day off the next week. It's just common sense imo and has nothing to do with "for god". Interestingly enough there a lot of different opinions in the same faith, I think everyone has to choose what to believe in themselves (to some extend). Also people change and it's nice that you were saved, but nothing on earth is for eternity, so feel free to get free.
Not OK. If your work asks you to volunteer to do your job, it’s time to look for a new job. Immediately.
It's a fine line because it's his church... Honestly work for God pays off way more than any job, but that's only how I see it. Also I understand that not everyone can afford to be a volunteer. That's okay. The only problem I see in the way this person handled the situation, was the hot headedness, quit on the spot type of thing, meaning he was thinking about this for a long time. Point 1) he could kindly refuse the Sunday thing, point 2) God doesn't force anyone and doesn't want anything done half heartedly. I hope all his work was not put in to please those people or to "pay them back" but as a service to God. If you do what you do to please others, you're in for way more unpleasant situations in the future.
It could well be that the church needs the money from the event for the budget. The OP didn't say if the pastor is paid, gets a living wage or a stipend, or how the church is doing financially. That the OP says he was told to "find money" doesn't indicate the church is flush with cash. I would probably do the event and recruit as many helpers as possible. I would also sit down with the pastor and any related communities to explain that you need to be paid next time or you may not be able to commit.
I was a professional bookkeeper and was self employed. For those who don't understand, that means I am responsible for paying all taxes & insurance myself. My SIL wanted to open her own barbershop and asked me to help her get set up (taxes, licenses, etc.) I told her I'd be happy to help and that the first hour was free. She gives me a really strange look and asked how much I would charge after that. I told her $20/hour (this was about 15 years ago). So she says she thought I'd at least give her a family discount. I told her I WAS giving her a family discount as my normal rate is $32/hour. She basically told me "nevermind" and then bitched about it to my brother - who set her straight real f*cking fast. He told her that this is how I make my living, that I happen to be really good at what I do (I did his books when he was self employed) and that she should be thankful I even considered helping her. She called and apologized, but I told her working with family was a bad idea.
YTA. It's one day of basic volunteerism flipping burgers etc. It sounds like your real issue is with the church and the amount they're paying you. Churches ask their staff to do stuff like this all the time especially if they're small and don't have a large budget. It sounds like you were cool with it as long as it benefited you, but now that you're working for them, you're tired of getting paid so little. It's good you quit. Now you can get a better paying job and if you want to volunteer with them you can or don't without any obligation.
Did you sign a contract when they started paying you? If so then they need to pay you minimum wage, if they haven't you could talk to an employee consultant... you'll probably be told that there is nothing you can do, but you'll learn what to look for in the future. As for helping out fir the BBQ, its a bit of a 2 way thing. Usually these things are done on a voluntary level, but so long as you didn't get all sarcastic when asking about pay then it's a valid question. Quitting a job without a backup plan was probably a silly move. Yes they helped you, but charity should be given without thought if reward Luke 6:35. But that goes both ways
My towns public library wanted to know if the staff members were coming to a fundraising event. It’s very expensive and the staff is part time and payed peanuts. A staff member explained that even if they scraped up the money to go, their experience was that they would be asked to work. They could be dressed to the nines and some person would ask them to find another folding table, drag it out and set it up.
YTA for how you reacted, but NTA for not wanting to do it. Honestly, as a member of a congregation, you shouldn't do anything that your heart isn't in. Or try to meet him halfway if you feel bad about it. Tell him you will do certain task but not everything he ask. For example: you could find the event space and people who would be willing to volunteer. OR, if you could volunteer but only for two hours or something. But NTA for saying no. It's your choice. Even though it would please God if you did help, but not necessary. I also wouldn't have just up and quit, now what are you going to do for work? Is that internship position still available?
This is an example of Anti-Krystic values that use the face and name of God and Krystic force. True Christ and its meaning is being muddied and lost. Has been for a long time....Ascension Glossary talks about this and many other topics.
Typical greedy hypocrites christians parasites, why do these evil counts have so much power to control half the country!??? Disgusting fascists
And people wonder why I was upset that my local polling place got moved to the inside of a church.
NTA. I worked for a church for nearly 20 years, and I can attest to the fact that churches can be the biggest abusers of workers and volunteers. And yes, I am a Christian. OP should never have passed on his internship. He may owe the church for helping him during a rough period in his life, but that doesn't mean that he has to give up his future. The pastor knew full well that he was taking advantage of an employee, and probably rallied his flying monkeys disguised as saints to back him up. OP should definitely change jobs and churches.
NTA, but just a compendium of bad decisions. if homeless and then were offered a job at a firm, GET THE FN JOB! Then pay back your debt with the church with free time ad honorem work. and in that position, when church ask for work on a BBQ on a Sunday, do it for free and consider it part of the debt you are paying.
Just listen to Arcade Fire's track, Intervention. Tells you all you need to know about these churches.
Well if you're real believer in Christ I'm following Jesus then you would be doing it for him and praying that that organization or barbecue would lead people to Christ that's what you should be focusing on if that's not your priority and you're just worried about money that you need to reevaluate your relationship with Christ and what your priorities are. You already said you yourself chose to deny that other good-paying job nobody forced you to you made that decision on your own so you can't complain about money and barely making it by on decisions that you made. You can be a member of the church and still get paid by the church to do certain things but that doesn't mean you have to be paid for every single thing you do if that's what you want is money for everything you do from the church then it sounds like you're not really there for God at all you're just there to make money and because you think somebody helps you out and you owe them a favor which honestly will get you nothing
Unpopular opinion but I personally think youre in the wrong here the pastor asked you and several other members for help organizing a BBQ for the church, he wasn't hiring you for the job, he technically didn't need to pay you. I remember my church growing up, we always had events like BBQs ,potlucks, Halloween festivals for the neighborhood, Vacation Bible School during summer, and people gladly volunteered their time to help and no one expected to get paid. You also weren't expected to do everything on your own since he asked other church members to help, did the other members expect to get paid too or was it just you (OP) if so why should you be the only one being paid.
but he didn't volunteer, he was just told to do it. If the pastor asked and he came up, that'd be a different story all together
Load More Replies... Most churches rely on people "working" for free. Its called and accepted to be service to God and each other. Regardless of thoughts towards religion, churches operate no differently to other community activities that need volunteers. The pastor probably asked him because he could be relied on to do a good job. Its OPs young faith that has him thinking he gets paid for all work. But this is learned as you grow in faith. The pastor has reached out to him. He has another shot to be a part of what is likely a really great community.
The pastor should do it himself instead of thinking someone who barely gets by should give up more for the scam that is his church.
Load More Replies... This is just my opinion... if a church of any denomination that had been helping me asked me to do something like that, I'd probably do it. He'd have been helping the community, getting to socialize, and he probably would have gotten to eat as well. That's just me.
Yeah my church relies on volunteers as well. Every church I've been a part of does as well. It seems this guy was on staff and maybe didn't know what he was getting into? Ministry does not pay. Ever. That pastor makes a living wage, sure, but barely in most cases. Larger churches can be different but they are the exception, not the rule. Anyone complaining about not getting paid to minister is just naive IMO. Still, this pastor is acting like a d**k for sure. If you're asking someone to volunteer, then be grateful when they say yes, and understanding when they say no. If you're paying OP already to do other things, paying for this shouldn't be a big deal. I'm going ESH.
You dont know hoe the US relgions system works do you. Most pastors make moee then enough to get by as the church uses guilt trips to make you do as they want, like donating, which doesnt get taxed.
Load More Replies... He repaid them by working there for a s**t wage. They don’t own him for life.
Load More Replies... So is the way 99% of "christians" act. Completely turning their back of the teachings of their namesake.
Load More Replies... No. They are basically asking him to work for free on what seems to be one of his only two days off.
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