Anti-Vaxxer Tries To Prove Vaccines Cause Autism, Someone Finds A Genius Way To Show They’re Wrong
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It’s been a raging debate for what seems like forever already, yet the anti-vaccination topic seems to have more and more people confused. Despite the lack of substantial research proving the dangers of vaccines as the people on those groups would like us to believe, anti-vaxxers try their best to come up with arguments to prove everyone otherwise.
It is not rare that the discussion about vaccines quickly brings up the topic of autism, despite the myth being repeatedly debunked and with zero cases of vaccines and autism linked cases existing. This internet user decided to use the correlation of the number of vaccines given to the U.S. children and the number of autism diagnoses as proof of their argument. However, people quickly responded to the original post by providing their own ‘arguments’ on the history of vaccines, in a hilarious way of course. Scroll down to read the full post and the healthy pro-vaccination discussion that followed, below and tells us what you think!
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Someone decided to use correlation to ‘prove’ that vaccines cause autism
The post sparked a discussion online
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I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: even if vaccines did cause autism it takes a special kind of evil to hate autistic children so much that you’d prefer to have a dead or suffering child
it is just utter common sense to vaccinate. Herd immunity only works so long as the entire herd are immune. The huge increase in contagious childhood diseases(that once were eradicated) over the last few years is entirely down to antivaxers thinking they are special
Actually, to be accurate, herd immunity requires that a sufficiently large proportion of the population be immune, so that the remaining proportion of non-immune individuals are protected by a broken chain of potential infection. It's inherently the definition of herd immunity - the immunity of the greater proportion protects the minor proportion. And the greater the proportion of immune individuals, the greater the protection for the non-immune ones. It might sound like pedantry but it's important to get the facts right in a conversation such as this, otherwise anti-vaxxers will focus on the errors as proof of overall incorrectness.
It really is madness. I’ve worked with autistic children for many years. Me and most who work with that population agree that its something that occurs in the womb during development. Why? It’s the shocking amount of identical twins we see with autism. Twins who no doubt shared the same amniotic sac and were subject to the same developmental issues. It’s not genetic that’s clear too. We just have to find out what’s going on in development. A lot of think it is something in the environment, chemical, or otherwise that is used very commonly within the last 20 years that is causing this issue in some women while they are pregnant. One day the mystery will be solved and these antivaxers will be put to shame.
My generation is hopefully the last one that had significant numbers of kids with polio, German measles, and whooping cough and having seen friends live with that I cannot imagine the level of selfishness it takes for an antivaxxer to be willing to risk one's child suffering from those rather than be autistic.
But there is no risk of the child becoming autistic due to the vaccine.
I must be of the same generation I will never forget the twins who both had been victims of polio in 1970 we were age 6 or 7 - both in metal calipers from the waist down - all it takes for protection is a pink sugar lump
We used to have chicken pox parties - seriously. Sounds really odd - but chicken pox was less serious the younger you were and parents would deliberately allow their child to contract it to "get it over with" dont know if there is a vaccine against it now = personally didnt get it til i was 12 and it was horrible
I do know what you are saying and, in fact, agree. However, by saying this it looks like you give some credence to the vaccine causing autism. The message that it doesn't is the single most important fact. The vaccine does not cause autism.
And some say they won't vaccinate because of the fact they don't want to put money in big pharma's pocket while acting like it doesn't cost a fortune for iron lungs, wheelchairs, 24 hour nursing care for life and..oh yeah..baby sized coffins......
Well, they ARE idiots.
how about how much the extreme prices of insurance & medi-care have shot through the roof once smokers were made to be punished, banished, carried all our sins, only to be greatly overtaken by the overweight & obese sky rocketing medical care. yeah, it's all a fine mess, ain't it though.
It's so damn offensive to my existence that these dickheads are so terrified of autism. F*** them and their very souls.
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Never really thought of it that way
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Best response ever!
It isn't hate. Firstly, people don't really think their child runs the risk of becoming sick or dead if they don't vaccinate, they think it's a tiny, almost impossible risk. (We know they increase the risk but they bypass that.) People are good at convincing themselves of what they want to believe. People are scared of autism, not because they hate autistic children, but because they are scared that they won't be able to cope with a disabled child. It's fear about their abilities. It's an emotional response and so they seek the rational to justify it. I don't agree with anti-vaxxers at all but people fear what they don't understand.
I got measles age 3/4 . Before the vaccination program in the UK got going properly. I wasvery ill and presumed to die, all my family came to see me and say goodbye - vaccinate vaccinate
Here we go again! Anti-vaxxers are utter morons and there is no valid argument. Lies, damned lies and statistics - you can make them show anything as the responses prove. Autism not caused by vaccines. End of.
the anti vaxxers even make an issue of it - Declaring on social media that they refuse to have their little darling immune to killer contagious childhood diseases - and the parents themselves would have been immunised as children
thank you @ Chris Jones. there is absolutely no scientific proof. not vaccinating babies or children of any age is signing their death warrant as parents. if you can really live with that; deal with that yourself for eternity.
First thing we were taught in Stats, garbage in = garbage out.
I get the idea that parents actually WANT their kids to be diagnosed as somewhere on the Autistic spectrum. This will excuse bad behaviour due to bad parenting. Why else would parents drag their unwilling children all over the place just to claim victory
of course they do, it's much easier than what they actually do to account for the screeching fests of their 3-9 yr. olds running around planes, restaurants, destroying the place, making a mess, keeping everyone ultra tense & stressed out. while the parents are ignoring it all with their headphones tuned into their i-phones... oh he/she's autistic - it's OK.... No it's not! grow up - quit ignoring your kids & spend time raising the, listening to them & being with them, no wonder they can't communicate, relate to people or know how to behave - you don't.
Movie, I’m actually extremely anti social and the quiet shadow kid. I also have hyper sensitivity so I’m definitely not a screecher. Please do not bring such destructive stereotypes to posts
Just look up Stephen Wiltshire
Haha, nice graphs. I remember when I was studying probability theory/statistics at uni our teacher told us a fun story - at one point the scientists in one of the European countries decided to do certain research(can't remember the details unfortunately). And...they found that apparently the number of babies being born correlates pretty closely with the number of storks in the area. So...babies are brought by storks after all?! But after more research they found out it's in fact the other way round - the country had recently passed a law that made it easier for newly wed couples to get their own houses(lots of new houses built just for that too). So all of a sudden a whole lot of young couples were getting their own places - and, as a consequence, a lot of them also felt comfortable getting babies=>more babies. But at the same time all of those nice new houses in the country were super convenient for stork nests=>more storks ;) Gotta be careful with your statistics.
Funny & interesting! Thanks for sharing.
Yes! My psychology advisor would teach this in every class
There's just one way to stop this Anti-vax movement and that's legislation. There could be laws that prohibit day care centers to take in children that aren't vaccinated, laws to force parents to have their children vaccinated. If the Child protection services are so swift on interfering when a "free range kid" is reported, why can't they take children away from parents who refuse to have them vaccinated?
"laws to force parents to have their children vaccinated." That is a very scary slippery slope; forcing people to put things into their children. I don't think anybody has the right to force you to put anything into your own, nor someone else's body, especially someone in your care. I can't imagine a more basic human right than that. What about adults? If you found that an 28yr old wasn't vaccinated, should that grown up be forced to have something injected into them? Again, I can't imagine a more basic human right than the right to decide what goes in your own body.
In some countries it's a law. Sometimes personal beliefs are subordinate to the public interest. Anti-vaxxers always talk about personal integrity, but that their children are a biological danger to others does not seem to matter to them. Until they must experience for themselves what it is like when their child is dying due to a disease which could have been prevented bij a simple vaccination.
Other possible correlative if not causative factors: Age of people when they have kids (aging parents are being studied as a factor, btw, for real, no joke); cumulative effect of environmental toxins on parental DNA (e.g., exposure to lead/lead gas exhaust, pesticides, etc., causing glitches in transcription); and this can go on for-freaking-ever. But it's not vaccines, or what is in vaccines. THOSE SAVE LIVES. People in other countries find anti-vaxxing inhumane and child endangerment. I agree.
My criminology professor pointed out that anything can be correlated if the numbers are right. As in, ice cream consumption increases during summer months....so does burglaries. So therefore, ice cream must cause people to want to commit burglaries. Actual..the factor in play is warm weather. People eat more ice cream during hot summer months and burglars are more likely to break into homes during the summer months when people are on vacation and when it's not so freezing cold outside.
My criminology professor used this example: 99% of spouses who are beaten, therefore 99% of men beat their wives. ...///... Yes. That is as stupid as it sounds.
Wow. Down voted by someone for whom reading comprehension is nonexistent. Nice to know that illiterate people can afford computers.
that is incomprehensible - hey it took me 20 mins to spell incomprehensible right - did i do it?
Totally!
I have autism and anti-vaxxers are not only incorrect, they're upsetting. They're essentially saying they'd prefer their child to die of a completely avoidable disease than have autism. I know what my mum prefers and it isn't having a dead kid.
Anti-vaxxers seriously don't really think their child runs the risk of becoming sick or dead if they don't vaccinate, they think it's a tiny, almost impossible risk. People are good at convincing themselves of what they want to believe. People are scared of autism, not because they hate autistic children, but because they are scared that they won't be able to cope with a disabled child. It's fear about their own abilities. At the heart of it they fear they won't be any good at parenting a child they think might be different. It is all about them, not their children.
You're making a lot of assumptions there. And by the same logic then, you don't want your kid to break their neck because you are afraid of how you'd parent them, as opposed to being genuinely empathetic/sympathetic to the child.
the post on here recently - from a mother who's 2 month old baby was at deaths door from Whooping Cough - contracted from the older sister - unvaccinated. She was wanting people to say she had done the right thing. Absolutely and utterly not. I do hope that baby survived.
I would like to think every Autistic child would have wanted to be immune from the killer diseases - think of Dyptheria and Smallpox, Whooping Cough, Rubella(German Measles) which can make a girl infertile, Mumps which can make a boy infertile. Measles which can really kill you - anti vaxxers defy belief and common sense
I'd rather have autism and also be vaccinated, that's for sure.
VACCINES DO NOT CAUSE AUTISM!!! Vaccines are good things! They help your body build antibodies to fight off the actual virus when you become exposed to it. Without vaccines, your body is defenseless against these horrific diseases and you could die from them. Get vaccinated! The binding agents, however, could be to blame. Many binding agents include various forms of mercury. Many people are VERY hypersensitive to mercury. I know from personal experience. I almost went blind from the mercury that was used in contact solutions many years ago. Oh, No!!! What should I do? Pharmaceutical companies do make vaccines without mercury compounds. Ask your doctor for vaccines that do not contain mercury compounds.
allow the herd mentality to test the vaccines and it would be wise to accept them only after being proven successful. one should know that all vaccines applied in the 50,s and sixties have been improved or banned since.
I have no problem with people who refuse to vaccinate their children as long as they go live on Mars. One thing always bothered me though, how come no one mentions that the drug use has increased by a lot for the past few years. How come no one talks about the correlation between a drug abuser mom and having a child with autism afterward? Also, from experience, 8 out of the 10 times I meet a parent of a child with autism, the parents have serious mental issues. Don’t get me wrong, it does not happen with everybody, but it is definitely genetic as well.
Clearly you need to get out more! I know many parents of autistic children who are mentally stable. It’s quite ignorant to say drug abusers and the mentally ill have autistic children. Your 8 out of 10 is quite high. It’s much more likely you don’t know many people with autism.
Drug use is a big issue (no pun intended) in childhood issues. So many of our patients were desperate to get their badly behaved and untrained children diagnosed with ADHD just so they could get the Ritalin to sell on
This is similar to the 'average life span' in history. It's usually given as in the 30s or 40s but that number is an average and greatly influenced by the high infant mortality of the times. If you made it to 18 you (and didn't work in an insanely dangerous job) you had a very good chance of living past 60. The vaccines kept many children from dying so they lived long enough to be seen as autistic.
True... but that line of "reasoning" (which I've heard many times) is flawed as it ignores a corollary. It wasn't just high infant mortality in generations past that accounted for the lower average life span. Fewer people lived longer. Because, in those times, increasing years produced declining health. Which is true today also... but as medical advances decreased infant mortality, it also decreased old age mortality. People are also living longer in general, not just on average.
you cant diagnose autism until well after the age a child is vaccinated - I hope every autistic child has been vaccinated for their own safety. I feel for the unvaccinated autistic children - who do the parent blame?
I don't think it's vaccines, I think it's the packaging and the preservatives in foods that are dinking with our DNA and thus the men and women that ate a lot of processed foods as children are having children and more and more of them are being born with issues, developing cancer, autism, et. al. I'm not a doctor or geneticist but it would be interesting if they did a study on the increased consumption of packaged/preserved foods of children in the 70s and 80s who's children are being diagnosed with these conditions and others. My argument is that my mother's generation, 1930s, didn't consume many or any products that were packaged in anything other than glass, paper or fabric. My generation (the 1960s and 70s) are the generation of the colorful cereals and pop tarts etc. very few of my generation has autism but our children do. We ate the crap we saw on TV our parents ate home cooked meals seems like a justified research project.
Autism rates have NOT been rising. What has been rising is diagnoses of autism, which correlate inversely to the decline in diagnoses of other mental handicaps. People who would have been called "retarded" thirty or forty years ago are being diagnosed as autistic today. And the rate of the two is level, not rising.
We’re still trying to “prove anti-vaccers wrong”? Louis Pasteur is rolling in his Petri dish.
PSYC 101, almost twenty years ago now, and I still remember that this was the very first lesson our professor taught us. There is an almost perfect correlation between amount of ice cream consumed in any given month, and drowning deaths in that month. Why? Because of summer. Ice cream does not make you drown. Correlation does not imply causation. Simple, straightforward, and it stuck with me like a good lesson should.
...and the number of Pirates has an impact on climate change...
my nephew has mild Aspbergers Syndrome - the most intelligent child i have ever met in my life
As Disraeli said, there are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics. It isn't that difficult to massage numbers in order to prove a point. I could "prove" that women who drive gray cars are more likely to suffer miscarriages than women who drive blue ones, or a whole lot of other silly things.
Near enough what Chris Jones wrote.
My favorite quote - "the first casualty in war is truth"
My brother was born in 1977. He did poorly in school, so my parents home schooled us. I was five years younger than him and I finally got him reading at an appropriate level when he was 15. The poor kid hated reading because it was so hard for him. I came across a book about learning disabilities in the library and showed my parents. He was finally diagnosed with Asperger's and dyslexia in 1998. He was 21. We were both vaccinated, but he's autistic and I'm not. P.s. He loves reading now. I'm so happy for him. Books are great!
As a mom whose son is within the spectrum and as a witness on how vaccine is actually helping people, these anti vaxxers are annoying. Be it anti vaxxers due to their religious belief or autism. Once you don't vaccinate your child, you put your child and other people in risk. I guess it's human's nature to think that they are right and others are wrong unless they experience bad things themselves...
Friggin hilarious...Penn & Teller still best video on why they are Bullsh*t
I think, anti vaccers, need to live somewhere that they can all infect each other, and then when their kids get measles and die, they don’t give it to someone else, and only have themselves to blame. And because no one is vaccinated, the colony wouldn’t last long.
My Grandmother had polio when she was a kid. We're pretty sure she was born in 1914, but we do know she was never vaccinated. Polio doesn't only affect your limbs (including limb deformity. Her left ankle was always swollen and she always kinda dragged that leg) it can also affect your respiratory system. But by all means - let's listen to a former Playboy model and a nationally known tattoo artist who sleeps with married men for our information on medical issues. Because THAT'S where I want to get MY information.
I've never seen any documentation/study/research that quantitatively proves a correlation between vaccines & Austism. It didn't get any attention until Jenny McCarthy started shooting off her mouth about her son, Ethan. I understand as a Mom, you want someone to blame, that's pretty normal - but guess what? Sometimes there just ISN'T. Medical conditions occur. Shit just happens. It sucks, but it's the truth. Now we've got a generation of anti-vaxxers whose role models are Jenny McCarthy and Kat Von Dee. And I thought having Trump as a president fucking sucked.
I've seen similar increases in people who have or know about the condition I have, Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome. That doesn't mean something's suddenly causing it, since it's a genetic condition; it just means awareness is spreading and doctors know more about what to look for. It's the same with the autism spectrum.
I wonder if vaccines actually help autism in a way. High fevers can cause brain damage so some vaccines could potentially prevent autism. Or am I completely wrong here?
I have a chart showing the rapid rise of anti-vax people next to a similar line showing the percentage of idiots per capita
I have autism
Nobody thought though that it may also be vaccines that changed since 1980' and also autism was less diagnosed just as other developmental disases. I am pro vaccines but it's weird that nobody questions quality of today's vaccines
Ok so how does an anti-vaxer parent answer the question: So what would you do if you, your spouse & your autistic child inhaled anthrax? "Please Louis Pasteur i'll pay you anything for your vaccination to save us." Louis P quietly asks solemnly "have you taken my advise about pasteurization to heart?"
I love how in this anti-vaxxer discussion, no one ever mentions the fact that the preservatives and chemicals in our "food" have also increased dramatically in this same time frame. No one ever stops to consider maybe we're doing these things to ourselves/our bodies/our babies in other willing ways.
Try going after the giants of the food corporations who make those products. They will get a hit man and finish you off before you start.
Guess what happens if people just stop buying their products?
The Internet lacks elementary ability to respond with understanding. We live in a world where information is spreading at enormous speed. Untested information passed on by people who are mentally limited. The Internet will kill us. Although sometimes I have the impression that everything is so full of idiocy that we have already died a long time ago, but it did not reach us. And as to which these charts are addressed, they will not understand them anyway. Unfortunately.
Excellent!
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Vaccinations do not cause autism. But syringes do cause junkies to keep doing stupid shit.
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If you hate Autistic children that much - who would you rather have as your child - Forrest Gump or nothing?
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It is sad that people mock those who suffer for an answer... good stats stick , but mocking is just mean. Support those who want the best for their child.
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There is not a " lack of substantial research proving that vaccines are harmful"; it's just being suppressed by MSM. http://healthimpactnews.com/2018/fraud-uncovered-in-u-s-governments-claim-that-vaccines-do-not-cause-autism-will-congress-and-doj-act/
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It is true that corrolation does not prove causation. However, it is also true that lack of verified proof does not disprove causation.
But there is verified proof that vaccines work, so why wouldn't you vaccinate children?
No, it's just that everyone hates you, joe.
He's speaking to the math/graphs alone.
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I did not say I would not vaccinate children. Did you reply to the wrong comment?
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Its really easy to say there's no correlation until you see your child change drastically literally overnight after getting vaccinated. I do not blame vaccines however I do believe poor gut health makes some children more likely to be injured from vaccines. I dont care what studies do or do not show. I see the proof daily with every struggle my once healthy son now deals with for life.
Autism is genetic. Nothing causes it, it just happens. I've seen parents blame all kinds of medical procedures for turning their children autistic. I'm guessing such hings might be more traumatic for an autistic child and that's why parents first notice something is different about their kid after they get it vaccinated or they had a procedure done.
Except that doesn't happen. Except that I know you're grasping at anything to "prove" that your son is ill because of something someone else did so that you don't have to deal with the fact that autism is genetic, and that it just happens. ...///... It's too bad that you think killing other children will make you feel better. You really need some therapy for that.
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Rather than blame vaccination, look into the research about the effect of Tylenol/acetaminophen on babies.
Still spouting that lie? Go play in the traffic.
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You only have to see John Mills in Ryan's Daughter to know how under-reported Autism was
Fiction can be inspiring, but it is not a good source of research. I recommend reading NeuroTribes by Steve Silberman.
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TYLENOL is an epigenetic trigger of Autism
Another lie. How thick are you? There's only one (and it's tenuous and needs research) potential cause of autism and it has to do with older FATHERS. Men over the age of 45 have what seems to be a higher risk of having children with autism.
If it's tenuous and needs research, then how are you convinced there's only one potential cause?
Oh well then....
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: even if vaccines did cause autism it takes a special kind of evil to hate autistic children so much that you’d prefer to have a dead or suffering child
it is just utter common sense to vaccinate. Herd immunity only works so long as the entire herd are immune. The huge increase in contagious childhood diseases(that once were eradicated) over the last few years is entirely down to antivaxers thinking they are special
Actually, to be accurate, herd immunity requires that a sufficiently large proportion of the population be immune, so that the remaining proportion of non-immune individuals are protected by a broken chain of potential infection. It's inherently the definition of herd immunity - the immunity of the greater proportion protects the minor proportion. And the greater the proportion of immune individuals, the greater the protection for the non-immune ones. It might sound like pedantry but it's important to get the facts right in a conversation such as this, otherwise anti-vaxxers will focus on the errors as proof of overall incorrectness.
It really is madness. I’ve worked with autistic children for many years. Me and most who work with that population agree that its something that occurs in the womb during development. Why? It’s the shocking amount of identical twins we see with autism. Twins who no doubt shared the same amniotic sac and were subject to the same developmental issues. It’s not genetic that’s clear too. We just have to find out what’s going on in development. A lot of think it is something in the environment, chemical, or otherwise that is used very commonly within the last 20 years that is causing this issue in some women while they are pregnant. One day the mystery will be solved and these antivaxers will be put to shame.
My generation is hopefully the last one that had significant numbers of kids with polio, German measles, and whooping cough and having seen friends live with that I cannot imagine the level of selfishness it takes for an antivaxxer to be willing to risk one's child suffering from those rather than be autistic.
But there is no risk of the child becoming autistic due to the vaccine.
I must be of the same generation I will never forget the twins who both had been victims of polio in 1970 we were age 6 or 7 - both in metal calipers from the waist down - all it takes for protection is a pink sugar lump
We used to have chicken pox parties - seriously. Sounds really odd - but chicken pox was less serious the younger you were and parents would deliberately allow their child to contract it to "get it over with" dont know if there is a vaccine against it now = personally didnt get it til i was 12 and it was horrible
I do know what you are saying and, in fact, agree. However, by saying this it looks like you give some credence to the vaccine causing autism. The message that it doesn't is the single most important fact. The vaccine does not cause autism.
And some say they won't vaccinate because of the fact they don't want to put money in big pharma's pocket while acting like it doesn't cost a fortune for iron lungs, wheelchairs, 24 hour nursing care for life and..oh yeah..baby sized coffins......
Well, they ARE idiots.
how about how much the extreme prices of insurance & medi-care have shot through the roof once smokers were made to be punished, banished, carried all our sins, only to be greatly overtaken by the overweight & obese sky rocketing medical care. yeah, it's all a fine mess, ain't it though.
It's so damn offensive to my existence that these dickheads are so terrified of autism. F*** them and their very souls.
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Never really thought of it that way
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Best response ever!
It isn't hate. Firstly, people don't really think their child runs the risk of becoming sick or dead if they don't vaccinate, they think it's a tiny, almost impossible risk. (We know they increase the risk but they bypass that.) People are good at convincing themselves of what they want to believe. People are scared of autism, not because they hate autistic children, but because they are scared that they won't be able to cope with a disabled child. It's fear about their abilities. It's an emotional response and so they seek the rational to justify it. I don't agree with anti-vaxxers at all but people fear what they don't understand.
I got measles age 3/4 . Before the vaccination program in the UK got going properly. I wasvery ill and presumed to die, all my family came to see me and say goodbye - vaccinate vaccinate
Here we go again! Anti-vaxxers are utter morons and there is no valid argument. Lies, damned lies and statistics - you can make them show anything as the responses prove. Autism not caused by vaccines. End of.
the anti vaxxers even make an issue of it - Declaring on social media that they refuse to have their little darling immune to killer contagious childhood diseases - and the parents themselves would have been immunised as children
thank you @ Chris Jones. there is absolutely no scientific proof. not vaccinating babies or children of any age is signing their death warrant as parents. if you can really live with that; deal with that yourself for eternity.
First thing we were taught in Stats, garbage in = garbage out.
I get the idea that parents actually WANT their kids to be diagnosed as somewhere on the Autistic spectrum. This will excuse bad behaviour due to bad parenting. Why else would parents drag their unwilling children all over the place just to claim victory
of course they do, it's much easier than what they actually do to account for the screeching fests of their 3-9 yr. olds running around planes, restaurants, destroying the place, making a mess, keeping everyone ultra tense & stressed out. while the parents are ignoring it all with their headphones tuned into their i-phones... oh he/she's autistic - it's OK.... No it's not! grow up - quit ignoring your kids & spend time raising the, listening to them & being with them, no wonder they can't communicate, relate to people or know how to behave - you don't.
Movie, I’m actually extremely anti social and the quiet shadow kid. I also have hyper sensitivity so I’m definitely not a screecher. Please do not bring such destructive stereotypes to posts
Just look up Stephen Wiltshire
Haha, nice graphs. I remember when I was studying probability theory/statistics at uni our teacher told us a fun story - at one point the scientists in one of the European countries decided to do certain research(can't remember the details unfortunately). And...they found that apparently the number of babies being born correlates pretty closely with the number of storks in the area. So...babies are brought by storks after all?! But after more research they found out it's in fact the other way round - the country had recently passed a law that made it easier for newly wed couples to get their own houses(lots of new houses built just for that too). So all of a sudden a whole lot of young couples were getting their own places - and, as a consequence, a lot of them also felt comfortable getting babies=>more babies. But at the same time all of those nice new houses in the country were super convenient for stork nests=>more storks ;) Gotta be careful with your statistics.
Funny & interesting! Thanks for sharing.
Yes! My psychology advisor would teach this in every class
There's just one way to stop this Anti-vax movement and that's legislation. There could be laws that prohibit day care centers to take in children that aren't vaccinated, laws to force parents to have their children vaccinated. If the Child protection services are so swift on interfering when a "free range kid" is reported, why can't they take children away from parents who refuse to have them vaccinated?
"laws to force parents to have their children vaccinated." That is a very scary slippery slope; forcing people to put things into their children. I don't think anybody has the right to force you to put anything into your own, nor someone else's body, especially someone in your care. I can't imagine a more basic human right than that. What about adults? If you found that an 28yr old wasn't vaccinated, should that grown up be forced to have something injected into them? Again, I can't imagine a more basic human right than the right to decide what goes in your own body.
In some countries it's a law. Sometimes personal beliefs are subordinate to the public interest. Anti-vaxxers always talk about personal integrity, but that their children are a biological danger to others does not seem to matter to them. Until they must experience for themselves what it is like when their child is dying due to a disease which could have been prevented bij a simple vaccination.
Other possible correlative if not causative factors: Age of people when they have kids (aging parents are being studied as a factor, btw, for real, no joke); cumulative effect of environmental toxins on parental DNA (e.g., exposure to lead/lead gas exhaust, pesticides, etc., causing glitches in transcription); and this can go on for-freaking-ever. But it's not vaccines, or what is in vaccines. THOSE SAVE LIVES. People in other countries find anti-vaxxing inhumane and child endangerment. I agree.
My criminology professor pointed out that anything can be correlated if the numbers are right. As in, ice cream consumption increases during summer months....so does burglaries. So therefore, ice cream must cause people to want to commit burglaries. Actual..the factor in play is warm weather. People eat more ice cream during hot summer months and burglars are more likely to break into homes during the summer months when people are on vacation and when it's not so freezing cold outside.
My criminology professor used this example: 99% of spouses who are beaten, therefore 99% of men beat their wives. ...///... Yes. That is as stupid as it sounds.
Wow. Down voted by someone for whom reading comprehension is nonexistent. Nice to know that illiterate people can afford computers.
that is incomprehensible - hey it took me 20 mins to spell incomprehensible right - did i do it?
Totally!
I have autism and anti-vaxxers are not only incorrect, they're upsetting. They're essentially saying they'd prefer their child to die of a completely avoidable disease than have autism. I know what my mum prefers and it isn't having a dead kid.
Anti-vaxxers seriously don't really think their child runs the risk of becoming sick or dead if they don't vaccinate, they think it's a tiny, almost impossible risk. People are good at convincing themselves of what they want to believe. People are scared of autism, not because they hate autistic children, but because they are scared that they won't be able to cope with a disabled child. It's fear about their own abilities. At the heart of it they fear they won't be any good at parenting a child they think might be different. It is all about them, not their children.
You're making a lot of assumptions there. And by the same logic then, you don't want your kid to break their neck because you are afraid of how you'd parent them, as opposed to being genuinely empathetic/sympathetic to the child.
the post on here recently - from a mother who's 2 month old baby was at deaths door from Whooping Cough - contracted from the older sister - unvaccinated. She was wanting people to say she had done the right thing. Absolutely and utterly not. I do hope that baby survived.
I would like to think every Autistic child would have wanted to be immune from the killer diseases - think of Dyptheria and Smallpox, Whooping Cough, Rubella(German Measles) which can make a girl infertile, Mumps which can make a boy infertile. Measles which can really kill you - anti vaxxers defy belief and common sense
I'd rather have autism and also be vaccinated, that's for sure.
VACCINES DO NOT CAUSE AUTISM!!! Vaccines are good things! They help your body build antibodies to fight off the actual virus when you become exposed to it. Without vaccines, your body is defenseless against these horrific diseases and you could die from them. Get vaccinated! The binding agents, however, could be to blame. Many binding agents include various forms of mercury. Many people are VERY hypersensitive to mercury. I know from personal experience. I almost went blind from the mercury that was used in contact solutions many years ago. Oh, No!!! What should I do? Pharmaceutical companies do make vaccines without mercury compounds. Ask your doctor for vaccines that do not contain mercury compounds.
allow the herd mentality to test the vaccines and it would be wise to accept them only after being proven successful. one should know that all vaccines applied in the 50,s and sixties have been improved or banned since.
I have no problem with people who refuse to vaccinate their children as long as they go live on Mars. One thing always bothered me though, how come no one mentions that the drug use has increased by a lot for the past few years. How come no one talks about the correlation between a drug abuser mom and having a child with autism afterward? Also, from experience, 8 out of the 10 times I meet a parent of a child with autism, the parents have serious mental issues. Don’t get me wrong, it does not happen with everybody, but it is definitely genetic as well.
Clearly you need to get out more! I know many parents of autistic children who are mentally stable. It’s quite ignorant to say drug abusers and the mentally ill have autistic children. Your 8 out of 10 is quite high. It’s much more likely you don’t know many people with autism.
Drug use is a big issue (no pun intended) in childhood issues. So many of our patients were desperate to get their badly behaved and untrained children diagnosed with ADHD just so they could get the Ritalin to sell on
This is similar to the 'average life span' in history. It's usually given as in the 30s or 40s but that number is an average and greatly influenced by the high infant mortality of the times. If you made it to 18 you (and didn't work in an insanely dangerous job) you had a very good chance of living past 60. The vaccines kept many children from dying so they lived long enough to be seen as autistic.
True... but that line of "reasoning" (which I've heard many times) is flawed as it ignores a corollary. It wasn't just high infant mortality in generations past that accounted for the lower average life span. Fewer people lived longer. Because, in those times, increasing years produced declining health. Which is true today also... but as medical advances decreased infant mortality, it also decreased old age mortality. People are also living longer in general, not just on average.
you cant diagnose autism until well after the age a child is vaccinated - I hope every autistic child has been vaccinated for their own safety. I feel for the unvaccinated autistic children - who do the parent blame?
I don't think it's vaccines, I think it's the packaging and the preservatives in foods that are dinking with our DNA and thus the men and women that ate a lot of processed foods as children are having children and more and more of them are being born with issues, developing cancer, autism, et. al. I'm not a doctor or geneticist but it would be interesting if they did a study on the increased consumption of packaged/preserved foods of children in the 70s and 80s who's children are being diagnosed with these conditions and others. My argument is that my mother's generation, 1930s, didn't consume many or any products that were packaged in anything other than glass, paper or fabric. My generation (the 1960s and 70s) are the generation of the colorful cereals and pop tarts etc. very few of my generation has autism but our children do. We ate the crap we saw on TV our parents ate home cooked meals seems like a justified research project.
Autism rates have NOT been rising. What has been rising is diagnoses of autism, which correlate inversely to the decline in diagnoses of other mental handicaps. People who would have been called "retarded" thirty or forty years ago are being diagnosed as autistic today. And the rate of the two is level, not rising.
We’re still trying to “prove anti-vaccers wrong”? Louis Pasteur is rolling in his Petri dish.
PSYC 101, almost twenty years ago now, and I still remember that this was the very first lesson our professor taught us. There is an almost perfect correlation between amount of ice cream consumed in any given month, and drowning deaths in that month. Why? Because of summer. Ice cream does not make you drown. Correlation does not imply causation. Simple, straightforward, and it stuck with me like a good lesson should.
...and the number of Pirates has an impact on climate change...
my nephew has mild Aspbergers Syndrome - the most intelligent child i have ever met in my life
As Disraeli said, there are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics. It isn't that difficult to massage numbers in order to prove a point. I could "prove" that women who drive gray cars are more likely to suffer miscarriages than women who drive blue ones, or a whole lot of other silly things.
Near enough what Chris Jones wrote.
My favorite quote - "the first casualty in war is truth"
My brother was born in 1977. He did poorly in school, so my parents home schooled us. I was five years younger than him and I finally got him reading at an appropriate level when he was 15. The poor kid hated reading because it was so hard for him. I came across a book about learning disabilities in the library and showed my parents. He was finally diagnosed with Asperger's and dyslexia in 1998. He was 21. We were both vaccinated, but he's autistic and I'm not. P.s. He loves reading now. I'm so happy for him. Books are great!
As a mom whose son is within the spectrum and as a witness on how vaccine is actually helping people, these anti vaxxers are annoying. Be it anti vaxxers due to their religious belief or autism. Once you don't vaccinate your child, you put your child and other people in risk. I guess it's human's nature to think that they are right and others are wrong unless they experience bad things themselves...
Friggin hilarious...Penn & Teller still best video on why they are Bullsh*t
I think, anti vaccers, need to live somewhere that they can all infect each other, and then when their kids get measles and die, they don’t give it to someone else, and only have themselves to blame. And because no one is vaccinated, the colony wouldn’t last long.
My Grandmother had polio when she was a kid. We're pretty sure she was born in 1914, but we do know she was never vaccinated. Polio doesn't only affect your limbs (including limb deformity. Her left ankle was always swollen and she always kinda dragged that leg) it can also affect your respiratory system. But by all means - let's listen to a former Playboy model and a nationally known tattoo artist who sleeps with married men for our information on medical issues. Because THAT'S where I want to get MY information.
I've never seen any documentation/study/research that quantitatively proves a correlation between vaccines & Austism. It didn't get any attention until Jenny McCarthy started shooting off her mouth about her son, Ethan. I understand as a Mom, you want someone to blame, that's pretty normal - but guess what? Sometimes there just ISN'T. Medical conditions occur. Shit just happens. It sucks, but it's the truth. Now we've got a generation of anti-vaxxers whose role models are Jenny McCarthy and Kat Von Dee. And I thought having Trump as a president fucking sucked.
I've seen similar increases in people who have or know about the condition I have, Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome. That doesn't mean something's suddenly causing it, since it's a genetic condition; it just means awareness is spreading and doctors know more about what to look for. It's the same with the autism spectrum.
I wonder if vaccines actually help autism in a way. High fevers can cause brain damage so some vaccines could potentially prevent autism. Or am I completely wrong here?
I have a chart showing the rapid rise of anti-vax people next to a similar line showing the percentage of idiots per capita
I have autism
Nobody thought though that it may also be vaccines that changed since 1980' and also autism was less diagnosed just as other developmental disases. I am pro vaccines but it's weird that nobody questions quality of today's vaccines
Ok so how does an anti-vaxer parent answer the question: So what would you do if you, your spouse & your autistic child inhaled anthrax? "Please Louis Pasteur i'll pay you anything for your vaccination to save us." Louis P quietly asks solemnly "have you taken my advise about pasteurization to heart?"
I love how in this anti-vaxxer discussion, no one ever mentions the fact that the preservatives and chemicals in our "food" have also increased dramatically in this same time frame. No one ever stops to consider maybe we're doing these things to ourselves/our bodies/our babies in other willing ways.
Try going after the giants of the food corporations who make those products. They will get a hit man and finish you off before you start.
Guess what happens if people just stop buying their products?
The Internet lacks elementary ability to respond with understanding. We live in a world where information is spreading at enormous speed. Untested information passed on by people who are mentally limited. The Internet will kill us. Although sometimes I have the impression that everything is so full of idiocy that we have already died a long time ago, but it did not reach us. And as to which these charts are addressed, they will not understand them anyway. Unfortunately.
Excellent!
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Vaccinations do not cause autism. But syringes do cause junkies to keep doing stupid shit.
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If you hate Autistic children that much - who would you rather have as your child - Forrest Gump or nothing?
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It is sad that people mock those who suffer for an answer... good stats stick , but mocking is just mean. Support those who want the best for their child.
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There is not a " lack of substantial research proving that vaccines are harmful"; it's just being suppressed by MSM. http://healthimpactnews.com/2018/fraud-uncovered-in-u-s-governments-claim-that-vaccines-do-not-cause-autism-will-congress-and-doj-act/
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It is true that corrolation does not prove causation. However, it is also true that lack of verified proof does not disprove causation.
But there is verified proof that vaccines work, so why wouldn't you vaccinate children?
No, it's just that everyone hates you, joe.
He's speaking to the math/graphs alone.
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I did not say I would not vaccinate children. Did you reply to the wrong comment?
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Its really easy to say there's no correlation until you see your child change drastically literally overnight after getting vaccinated. I do not blame vaccines however I do believe poor gut health makes some children more likely to be injured from vaccines. I dont care what studies do or do not show. I see the proof daily with every struggle my once healthy son now deals with for life.
Autism is genetic. Nothing causes it, it just happens. I've seen parents blame all kinds of medical procedures for turning their children autistic. I'm guessing such hings might be more traumatic for an autistic child and that's why parents first notice something is different about their kid after they get it vaccinated or they had a procedure done.
Except that doesn't happen. Except that I know you're grasping at anything to "prove" that your son is ill because of something someone else did so that you don't have to deal with the fact that autism is genetic, and that it just happens. ...///... It's too bad that you think killing other children will make you feel better. You really need some therapy for that.
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Rather than blame vaccination, look into the research about the effect of Tylenol/acetaminophen on babies.
Still spouting that lie? Go play in the traffic.
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You only have to see John Mills in Ryan's Daughter to know how under-reported Autism was
Fiction can be inspiring, but it is not a good source of research. I recommend reading NeuroTribes by Steve Silberman.
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TYLENOL is an epigenetic trigger of Autism
Another lie. How thick are you? There's only one (and it's tenuous and needs research) potential cause of autism and it has to do with older FATHERS. Men over the age of 45 have what seems to be a higher risk of having children with autism.
If it's tenuous and needs research, then how are you convinced there's only one potential cause?
Oh well then....