Apparently, religion isn’t the be-all and end-all of morality amongst humans.
Despite there being a “cross-cultural stereotype suggesting that atheists are untrustworthy and lack a moral compass”, a new study has somewhat proven that those not obeying certain religious rules do, in fact, have a moral compass.
In a paper published in PLOS One, investigating the relationship between moral values and religious belief or disbelief, researchers have exposed the results of four surveys of 4,622 atheists and theists across America and Sweden, analyzing the relationship between religious belief – or lack thereof – and moral values.
A recent study shed light on the links between religion, atheism, and morality
Image credits: ReasonTV
Theism has been described as a religious belief system where a person believes in the existence of one or more deities.
Moreover, pure theism usually implies that someone feels that they know that their beliefs are justified. Meanwhile, atheism is a lack of belief in any deities.
Tomas Ståhl of the University of Illinois at Chicago and the author of the study, said: “The most general take-home message from these studies is that people who do not believe in God do have a moral compass.
“In fact, they share many of the same moral concerns that religious believers have, such as concerns about fairness, and about protecting vulnerable individuals from harm.”
The paper highlighted the participants’ endorsement of Liberty/oppression and amoral tendencies, as well as the five foundations of the Moral Foundations Theory (MFT), developed by psychologists Jonathan Haidt and Jesse Graham.
MFT’s foundations are the following: Care/harm, Fairness/cheating, Loyalty/betrayal, Authority/subversion, and Sanctity/degradation.
“The most general take-home message is that people who do not believe in God do have a moral compass,” researcher Tomas Ståhl concluded
Image credits: Wikipedia Commons
Using Amazon’s Mechanical Turk platform, a website to crowdsource responses, researchers managed to retrieve data that suggested that religiosity was found to be unrelated to amoral tendencies and endorsement of Liberty/oppression, as well as individualizing moral foundations of care and fairness.
Nevertheless, those described as being atheists appeared to be less favorable of binding moral foundations such as deference to authority, sanctity, and in-group loyalty.
Tomas explained: “It is possible that the negative stereotype of atheists as immoral may stem in part from the fact that they are less inclined than religious people to view respect for authority, ingroup loyalty, and sanctity as relevant for morality, and they are more likely to make moral judgments about harm on a consequentialist, case by case basis.”
Researchers also took into account credibility-enhancing displays and perception of existential threat, trying to find out whether these elements had an influence on religious beliefs.
As a result, studies showed that credibility-enhancing displays involve important members of the community engaging in behaviors in service of religious beliefs that would be personally costly if the beliefs were false.
Additionally, the data suggested that less exposure to credibility-enhancing displays, lower perception of existential threat, as well as a more analytical cognitive style, were associated with a lack of religious belief.
Consequently, the results have revealed that atheists’ moral compass is just as good as the moral compass of theists.
The studies were conducted in a population of 4,622 atheists and theists across America and Sweden
Image credits: Noah Holm/Unsplash
The paper also disclosed that atheists are more likely to assess the morality of actions based on their consequences, whereas religious people tend to endorse moral values that promote group cohesion.
“Atheism merely implies the absence of religious belief, and says nothing about what positive beliefs the disbeliever holds,” Tomas added.
There have reportedly been widespread negative attitudes towards atheists worldwide.
A poll published in 2019 showed that an average of 45 percent of people across 34 countries say that belief in God is necessary to be moral and have good values.
Additionally, a 2020 Gallup poll showed that only 60 percent of respondents would vote for an atheist presidential candidate, whereas 95 percent would vote for a Catholic candidate, 93 percent would vote for a Jewish candidate, and 80 percent would vote for an evangelical Christian.
Religious and atheists had many interesting replies upon reading about the study
Who is a better person? The one who is kind and generous and honest because they choose to be, or the one who is kind and generous and honest because they think someone is watching them 24/7?
EXACTLY. How many times have people heard that they did something because "it's the Christian thing to do?" So, like, you're only being nice being you're being forced to and not because you're just a genuinely nice person?
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I find the fact that anyone would need a scientific study to come to this conclusion disturbing.
No fooling! And studies are often terribly expensive, but someone felt this was worthy of studying? Huh; it just occurred to me that perhaps religious folks needed to hear this, because so many of them judge those of us who aren’t as morally lacking. In that case, would they even believe these conclusions?
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Even as a young kid, I found it absurd that people think atheists have no morals. You don't need some magical dude in the sky to tell you that causing harm to someone else is wrong.
Some people have a magical dude in the sky that encourages them to do harm.
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The fact that morality is independent of religious belief is not the surprise. The take-away is that religious people don't realize or believe this - look at their unwillingness to vote for an atheist politician. No, what the study shows is that religious people are NOT morally superior, and in fact, prone to judging others without any evidence other than their own biases.
^^^most succinct and accurate analysis in the thread. Thank you.
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How many times have people used their religion, (no matter what that religion may be) to do or allow the most heinous acts, because "God commanded it" or because "it was God's will"?
Religion and morality have absolutely nothing to do with one another. Pick a random list of a hundred religious people, measure their moral behavior, and you’ll get a bell curve of a few horrible people at one end, a bunch of mostly decent people in the middle, and a few truly good, self-sacrificing people on the other end. The same goes generally for atheists, but what you lose with atheism is the attempt to justify bad actions with the excuse of moral authority handed down from on high, or fighting against one’s own moral interests when attempting to reconcile, for instance, your deep love for your gay son but your religious conviction that their homosexuality is immoral. Atheism doesn’t make one more moral, but it makes for clearer and more consistent moral thinking and action.
Does it though? Not in my experience. I think you were right in your first sentence - there's no meaningful correlation.
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The thing I don't get: when theists say things like "If god wasn't watching me, I would be out there killing people." (Yes, I have heard this. Rarely, but even so...) I think that says more about *you*, bro, than the goodness of god.
When you say rarely... you mean more than once? I mean, yikes, that's not something I've ever heard anyone say!
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It is actually far more likely for someone who is a zealous follower of a religion to have a broken moral compass than an atheist. Why? Because the hallmark quality of zealotry is using beliefs to justify actions. Beliefs are easily twisted to justify all sorts of awful things (hence why there are any Christians who can be 100% behind murder despite ostensibly knowing that "thou shall not kill" is one of their primary tenets).
Organised religion is to blame for a lot of the world’s problems. If you look at the major religious teachings they all mention each others prophets, and they all advocate tolerance, acceptance and charity. Personally I don’t believe in any religion, I believe you should be a decent human and when I die I’ll become stardust 😘
I have great news for you! You already are stardust. Enjoy.
Load More Replies... Lol, what? Those of us who live outside the influence of bronze-age superstitions have always known this. If the only reason you wouldn't r*pe, kill, or pillage is because you think an invisible man in the sky is watching you, then YTA. It always amazes me how some Christians (particularly the US Evangelical movement) seem to ignore the fact that Jesus was a brown-skinned, long-haired, middle-eastern, liberal hippy in a dress who fought for the poor, the marginalised, the downtrodden, and the most vulnerable. He was a rebel, an agitator, and fought against the system to spread a simple message: treat others as you'd like to be treated yourself. He was about as far removed from the false prophets of modern 'Conservative Values' as it's possible to be. whywontgodhealamputees[dot]com.
Ironically(but not really😉) I am more "Christ-like" now as an atheist than as when I was a Christian!
“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." - Mahatma Gandhi
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Atheism merely implies the absence of religious belief... I love this view on the matter for being so wrong. Like one of my favourite comedians once explained: For people who believe it is very hard to imagine that there is no other thing an atheist believes in, in place of god. But in reality, that place in an atheist mind, where a theists god would reside is not empty, it does not even exist and therefore does not need to be filled at all.
oh, i love that!! i think that's why so many theists insist that atheism is a belief system. they can wrap their minds around this one simple concept.
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Where is the study on whether religious people are in fact "Moral". The most heinous atrocities in our existence are all religiously driven. 911 was a "faith" based initiative. Can we stop with the constant pandering to religion and recognize that it has always been about power and controlling the masses? We take nothing from the continuing sexual abuse scandals and the unabated cover up to simply continue this control. Keep believing that magic makes you moral.
Spot on! I would love to see a study about the moral integrity of religious believers. It’s absolutely about controlling the masses and keeping people from thinking for themselves. The fact that so many religious “leaders” have done reprehensible things like sexual predation, killing in the name of “GOD”, and abhorrent cash grabs with a fancy name -tithing- is just despicable and fully immoral. Edited to switch out a word.
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It's so simple, stop teaching mythology to children as if it was true. I don't like people stealing, hurting, raping, killing me so I don't do it to other people. It's not hard.
Some of the angriest and most unhappy people I have ever met carry a bible with them every where they go.
Religion compromises morality. Not only does it rely on carrot/stick authoritarian methods, which isn't morality but dictation, but they are forbidden to question this authority figure under any circumstances. Harmless variation is vilified as deserving up to and including a fate worse than death, while heinous atrocities by the religion are excused away with olympic-level mental gymnastics.
I really think that among the followers of any and all religions, as well as among atheists and agnostics, you'll find exactly the same proportion of good people, a*sholes, and any shade in-between. The problem is not what moral code you choose to adher to, since they all have more or less the same basic rules, but how strictly or loosely you follow it. Religion, and politics, do add a mob effect, though.
Oh, there can definitely be a problem with which moral code you decide to strictly adhere to!
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Due to what I do/don't believe in, I don't get the do-over. I have to do it right the first time. I'm nice to people without the threat of eternal pain that religion provides. I don't hate the groups that religion tells me to hate. Well, I don't hate them, but I sure don't want to be around bible thumpers. I can find a more sane group to be around.
I'm shocked at the sheer nastiness in the bible. Rape, abandonment of women and children, incest, murder of "others" , slavery, rigid obedience even to the point of murdering children, god sanctioned war and slaughter. Endless shows on CI where someone committed murder so the church colleagues wouldn't find out about adultery or kinky sex. Twisted IMO. And a god that insists on rigid rules and supposedly endless horrific punishments for a once off minor sin? No thanks.
I hope within a few decades' time, religion just disappears. Or people at least stop spewing it to impressionable children. It honestly baffles me how people still believe this stuff, with all the science abound these days. We're not in medieval times anymore, it's time to become more open-minded
if you need a threath of eternal hell and damnation to be a good person, then you are just a bed person on a leash. so, the religion is tehre realy to control people.
I believe that many religious people are kind and moral because they want to be, not because their god says they should be. But I also believe that if your morality is dictated by religion and you would behave differently had your book not said so, you're not a good person.
As an Apatheist, I firmly believe that the religions can't all be right, so why believe any of them? Be nice and respectful to people, and don't try to force your opinions on others - and don't get angry if they don't agree with you. Just because you're offended, it doesn't mean you're right.
I mostly agree with this with the caveat “just because someone is offended about something mainstream doesn’t mean they’re wrong”. There was a time when shipping black people over to the USA as slaves was the norm, and it changed because people (black and white) said “this is fücked up, actually.”
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For everyone who's looking for a light religous text for traveling, take piece of paper and write the following text on it: "Don't be an A**hole" .... fits for evey (non)-religion there is
I have found through my life that the people who are religious are the one that lack the moral compass.
Now do the study on whether religious people really are actually moral!
The question I get often is "if you don't have a God, what is stopping you from killing people?" Here's how to answer this question- put on your best shocked face and loudly say "Your God is the only reason you aren't murdering people?!" That always makes them retreat in embarrassment. Good.
Ironically enough, i have found some of the most amoral people are "religious". Personally, I think this stems from being able to be "forgiven" for revealing your "sins"...whether it's to a chaplain, minister or "God" themselves. When you have a "get out of jail free" card whenever you like, you tend to use it as a crutch. Don't get me wrong, I don't think it wasn't ever not needed, but the world and society has changed enough, that it's archaic. For example, eating pork was dangerous, because of the way pigs live (think wild boar). Now it's just as domesticated (and clean) as other sources of meat. Religion are rules to live by, for generations centuries past, that didn't know what we know today. We don't stone people anymore (at least in the west), yet that was once an acceptable punishment. Before anyone gets their panties twisted, this is my personal opinion...which I am entitled to, so drop your stone.
I'm an agnostic, I don't know if there is a God or gods or not. I am open to the idea, but I am also open to the idea that there isn't. Most of all I believe we're not really meant to find out. I think we can say a lot about the universe, but eventually we are flies against a window. There is only so much ape brains can process.
IN THE USA: Additionally, a 2020 Gallup poll showed that only 60 percent of respondents would vote for an atheist presidential candidate, whereas 95 percent would vote for a Catholic candidate, 93 percent would vote for a Jewish candidate, and 80 percent would vote for an evangelical Christian.
Can’t I love God AND do the right thing because it’s the right thing to do?
I'm an atheist and my husband isn't. He says I act better than any Christians he's met. I really wish religion was never invented, there's roughly 4,000 of them and everyone thinks theirs is the 'right' one. So basically, every week you're making the real god madder and madder, unless you picked the 1 in 4,000. The whole concept is ridiculous. They're all just cults.
first and foremost, we must not forget that most wars and suffering in the world have been caused by a religion or another.... one does not need any religion to be a moral or good person and know the difference between right and wrong.. if one needs a "bogey" in the form of some "deity" or another external "guardian" for this or says they don't kill/steal/abuse others only for the fear of some punishment, they are wretched humans.. morality is independent from religion but has been hijacked by the latter
Let's get this out there too. All of humanity is agnostic. "A-gnostic" simply means "without knowledge" and no one has knowledge of God or afterlife or reincarnation. Hence, the need for faith (for those that feel the need of reassurance). We are all agnostic. Let's call fence-sitters what they are: simply unsure of where they will land on the belief spectrum.
Atheism is the lack of belief in deities. Every baby that was ever born, was an atheist. Every baby that ever will be born, will be born an atheist. Every other position is acquired.
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About a year ago, I saw an article in the Guardian about a study showing that religious people were happy than atheists. I was tempted to write in and thank them for the good laugh.
Sigh. Yes, being religious doesn't make a person any better. But neither does being an atheist. There are just as many atheist a******s as there are religious a******s. A person who wants to do something bad will always be able to justify it to themselves. The difference between a religious person and an atheist is in the framework that they use to justify their actions.
When a religious person does good, it's attributed to his religion, for example if he donated a kidney people will say "well, they are raised to be altruistic". when an atheist is doing good it's attributed to his upbringing "he must be raised well". And when a religious person does bad it's never attributed to his religion "a rotten apple", but when an atheist does bad, sometimes, specially by religious people, it's "because those people raised without values, not like us".
Morality can be found in religious texts, sure. But it can also be learned from our experiences, discovered in history books, discussed with family, friends, and therapists, developed through introspection, lived out in relationships, watched on TV shows, reinforced through interaction with animals, and so on. There is no one source for morality. To quote the movie K-Pax "Every being in the universe knows right from wrong."
My partner has recently gone back to the Christian religion. He is the exact same person I met. It would be weird for me if he were suddenly kind out of fear, instead of his genuine compassion. As an atheist, the folk who truly frighten me are the ones who say things like "If it wasn't for the Lord, I'd be in jail for the things I would do.". Oh so you believe you'd get caught, but the thoughts are there?
"But to live outside the law, you must be honest." - Bob Dylan, Absolutely Sweet Marie
The religious need to read it. They can’t seem to tell nihilism and atheism apart.
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Regardless of what you tend to believe read thru the comments and ask yourself are they unkind statements concerning people of faith? Then rethink your definition of what morality means. Atheism has no existential grounding for morals. That type of "morality" is merely personal preference but certainly not a cohesive code of ethics. The article tries to posit that the atheist can have a quasi-religious ethos minus any religion. In a materialistic framework there are no objective definitions (absolutes) for "good" or "bad" - co-opting words is a shell game of subjectivity. Atheism rejects absolutes and especially absolute truths. Example - If you ask a religious person, "Why is such a thing wrong?" They would say, "Because of the objective standard I ascribe to which is outside of myself." Now that doesn't mean it's true but it does mean it's not subjective. If you ask the same of the atheist they will say, "Because I deem it to be so." which is completely subjective.
I'm so glad I'm not a "typical" Christian. I don't judge others, that's not my job. I do things for people (like give them rides to work, buy random gifts just because, give them food if they need it, etc)because that's just me, I don't try to convince anyone to go to church, become a Christian, etc. It's crazy to me how Christians are perceived by others.
Might be me, but I have never had or heard this kind of conversation over here. We accept the fact that it does not matter if you are religious or not, it's how you act which does matter. Asking people about their beliefs seems a very USA thing to do. Or am I wrong thinking that?
This is b******t - everyone is using Christianity as the template for religion. Yeah, there are a bunch of strict, potentially violent religions like Christianity and Islam. At the same time, there are also more relaxed, peace-loving religions like Hinduism and Buddhism. Don't generalize religion by using one of the most hateful ones as an example.
As a Christian, Christians thinking that atheists can't be nice drive me nuts. Flip, even the Bible clearly says that the law (that is, moral stuff) is written in peoples' hearts.
And it was referring specifically to people who don't worship the God whom the Bible considers to be true.
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Yes I don't need an imaginary sky daddy to tell me to treat people how I want to be treated. Met too many so-called Christians who use the bible to hate on others who are different.
Personally, I am Christian, but only because the religion provides me a source of comfort. It's not my place to judge anyone, or preach to anyone, nor do I want to! No hate to anyone at all! <3 (sorry if this comes off negatively, I just wanted to share my beliefs. It's ok to downvote)
I live in a country where only 20% declare to be religious/believers. I have never had an idea that morality is a result of some belief. In fact, Idk if Iam theist or atheist and what does it all mean, all these questions have no importance. To be honest, I have awkward experience with churchgoers, they were like sniffing to catch me doing some sin and to be happy they are "better".
In other news, a new study has shown that nature is dirty and water is wet.
Morals are decided on by a society. They may be based in some or all of the religions in that society, but you don't have to be a member of that society to agree with and adopt those morals. For example, the Bible teaches not to steal. Society says stealing is wrong, partly because the Bible teaches that and the society I live in is mostly Christian. But an atheist brought up in this society also knows that stealing is wrong, not only because there are laws against it, but because they know it would be wrong to have someone steal from them, so it's wrong to steal from others.
I guess I'm a "bi-theist" because I do believe in a creator, and there is much more than we can see, however, I don't believe in religious institutions anymore. Religions dictate moral compasses that are often not my cup of tea, for instance: wearing a headscarf, or black stockings, or not being able to marry your love if you were divorced or gay, etc. I'd rather be the Samaritan who helped even though it was a Sabbath.
I believe that would make you agnostic, no? Please do correct me if I am wrong. Like you I believe in a higher force, however, I do not believe in organized religion after some less than stellar experiences. I find beauty and joy in nature, the arts, and building friendships— that’s my version of spiritualism. I believe that people have the right worship and practice their faith. However, I am against anyone who utilizes religion to harm people. Yes, I believe that religion can help instill moral values, however, morality is and should be learned from real world experiences. It comes from working with people who may be different from you. It comes from learning about history. It comes from building empathy by listening to other people’s experiences.
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We all are born without dogma or religion, this is our starting position in life, the norm :: there are those that become theists - the unsullied are free thinkers :: the term atheist is religious and assumes theism to be the norm
Sorry, but this is a common misconception. Atheism is not a religion, nor is it religious. It is the absence of belief. Every person in the world is born an atheist and they always will be until the end of time.
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Please point to where it said every atheist is “swell” or any such thing 🤦🏻♀️
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This is what sickens me about religion and religious people. They claim the source for my morality is a god I don't even believe in. No. There is no god. I've never read a holy book. I can decide what's right and wrong all by myself, thank you very much! (No downvote from me btw. We should be able to discuss these things without pushing each other down.)
Load More Replies... Who is a better person? The one who is kind and generous and honest because they choose to be, or the one who is kind and generous and honest because they think someone is watching them 24/7?
EXACTLY. How many times have people heard that they did something because "it's the Christian thing to do?" So, like, you're only being nice being you're being forced to and not because you're just a genuinely nice person?
Load More Replies... I find the fact that anyone would need a scientific study to come to this conclusion disturbing.
No fooling! And studies are often terribly expensive, but someone felt this was worthy of studying? Huh; it just occurred to me that perhaps religious folks needed to hear this, because so many of them judge those of us who aren’t as morally lacking. In that case, would they even believe these conclusions?
Load More Replies... Even as a young kid, I found it absurd that people think atheists have no morals. You don't need some magical dude in the sky to tell you that causing harm to someone else is wrong.
Some people have a magical dude in the sky that encourages them to do harm.
Load More Replies... The fact that morality is independent of religious belief is not the surprise. The take-away is that religious people don't realize or believe this - look at their unwillingness to vote for an atheist politician. No, what the study shows is that religious people are NOT morally superior, and in fact, prone to judging others without any evidence other than their own biases.
^^^most succinct and accurate analysis in the thread. Thank you.
Load More Replies... How many times have people used their religion, (no matter what that religion may be) to do or allow the most heinous acts, because "God commanded it" or because "it was God's will"?
Religion and morality have absolutely nothing to do with one another. Pick a random list of a hundred religious people, measure their moral behavior, and you’ll get a bell curve of a few horrible people at one end, a bunch of mostly decent people in the middle, and a few truly good, self-sacrificing people on the other end. The same goes generally for atheists, but what you lose with atheism is the attempt to justify bad actions with the excuse of moral authority handed down from on high, or fighting against one’s own moral interests when attempting to reconcile, for instance, your deep love for your gay son but your religious conviction that their homosexuality is immoral. Atheism doesn’t make one more moral, but it makes for clearer and more consistent moral thinking and action.
Does it though? Not in my experience. I think you were right in your first sentence - there's no meaningful correlation.
Load More Replies... The thing I don't get: when theists say things like "If god wasn't watching me, I would be out there killing people." (Yes, I have heard this. Rarely, but even so...) I think that says more about *you*, bro, than the goodness of god.
When you say rarely... you mean more than once? I mean, yikes, that's not something I've ever heard anyone say!
Load More Replies... It is actually far more likely for someone who is a zealous follower of a religion to have a broken moral compass than an atheist. Why? Because the hallmark quality of zealotry is using beliefs to justify actions. Beliefs are easily twisted to justify all sorts of awful things (hence why there are any Christians who can be 100% behind murder despite ostensibly knowing that "thou shall not kill" is one of their primary tenets).
Organised religion is to blame for a lot of the world’s problems. If you look at the major religious teachings they all mention each others prophets, and they all advocate tolerance, acceptance and charity. Personally I don’t believe in any religion, I believe you should be a decent human and when I die I’ll become stardust 😘
I have great news for you! You already are stardust. Enjoy.
Load More Replies... Lol, what? Those of us who live outside the influence of bronze-age superstitions have always known this. If the only reason you wouldn't r*pe, kill, or pillage is because you think an invisible man in the sky is watching you, then YTA. It always amazes me how some Christians (particularly the US Evangelical movement) seem to ignore the fact that Jesus was a brown-skinned, long-haired, middle-eastern, liberal hippy in a dress who fought for the poor, the marginalised, the downtrodden, and the most vulnerable. He was a rebel, an agitator, and fought against the system to spread a simple message: treat others as you'd like to be treated yourself. He was about as far removed from the false prophets of modern 'Conservative Values' as it's possible to be. whywontgodhealamputees[dot]com.
Ironically(but not really😉) I am more "Christ-like" now as an atheist than as when I was a Christian!
“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." - Mahatma Gandhi
Load More Replies... Atheism merely implies the absence of religious belief... I love this view on the matter for being so wrong. Like one of my favourite comedians once explained: For people who believe it is very hard to imagine that there is no other thing an atheist believes in, in place of god. But in reality, that place in an atheist mind, where a theists god would reside is not empty, it does not even exist and therefore does not need to be filled at all.
oh, i love that!! i think that's why so many theists insist that atheism is a belief system. they can wrap their minds around this one simple concept.
Load More Replies... Where is the study on whether religious people are in fact "Moral". The most heinous atrocities in our existence are all religiously driven. 911 was a "faith" based initiative. Can we stop with the constant pandering to religion and recognize that it has always been about power and controlling the masses? We take nothing from the continuing sexual abuse scandals and the unabated cover up to simply continue this control. Keep believing that magic makes you moral.
Spot on! I would love to see a study about the moral integrity of religious believers. It’s absolutely about controlling the masses and keeping people from thinking for themselves. The fact that so many religious “leaders” have done reprehensible things like sexual predation, killing in the name of “GOD”, and abhorrent cash grabs with a fancy name -tithing- is just despicable and fully immoral. Edited to switch out a word.
Load More Replies... It's so simple, stop teaching mythology to children as if it was true. I don't like people stealing, hurting, raping, killing me so I don't do it to other people. It's not hard.
Some of the angriest and most unhappy people I have ever met carry a bible with them every where they go.
Religion compromises morality. Not only does it rely on carrot/stick authoritarian methods, which isn't morality but dictation, but they are forbidden to question this authority figure under any circumstances. Harmless variation is vilified as deserving up to and including a fate worse than death, while heinous atrocities by the religion are excused away with olympic-level mental gymnastics.
I really think that among the followers of any and all religions, as well as among atheists and agnostics, you'll find exactly the same proportion of good people, a*sholes, and any shade in-between. The problem is not what moral code you choose to adher to, since they all have more or less the same basic rules, but how strictly or loosely you follow it. Religion, and politics, do add a mob effect, though.
Oh, there can definitely be a problem with which moral code you decide to strictly adhere to!
Load More Replies... Due to what I do/don't believe in, I don't get the do-over. I have to do it right the first time. I'm nice to people without the threat of eternal pain that religion provides. I don't hate the groups that religion tells me to hate. Well, I don't hate them, but I sure don't want to be around bible thumpers. I can find a more sane group to be around.
I'm shocked at the sheer nastiness in the bible. Rape, abandonment of women and children, incest, murder of "others" , slavery, rigid obedience even to the point of murdering children, god sanctioned war and slaughter. Endless shows on CI where someone committed murder so the church colleagues wouldn't find out about adultery or kinky sex. Twisted IMO. And a god that insists on rigid rules and supposedly endless horrific punishments for a once off minor sin? No thanks.
I hope within a few decades' time, religion just disappears. Or people at least stop spewing it to impressionable children. It honestly baffles me how people still believe this stuff, with all the science abound these days. We're not in medieval times anymore, it's time to become more open-minded
if you need a threath of eternal hell and damnation to be a good person, then you are just a bed person on a leash. so, the religion is tehre realy to control people.
I believe that many religious people are kind and moral because they want to be, not because their god says they should be. But I also believe that if your morality is dictated by religion and you would behave differently had your book not said so, you're not a good person.
As an Apatheist, I firmly believe that the religions can't all be right, so why believe any of them? Be nice and respectful to people, and don't try to force your opinions on others - and don't get angry if they don't agree with you. Just because you're offended, it doesn't mean you're right.
I mostly agree with this with the caveat “just because someone is offended about something mainstream doesn’t mean they’re wrong”. There was a time when shipping black people over to the USA as slaves was the norm, and it changed because people (black and white) said “this is fücked up, actually.”
Load More Replies... For everyone who's looking for a light religous text for traveling, take piece of paper and write the following text on it: "Don't be an A**hole" .... fits for evey (non)-religion there is
I have found through my life that the people who are religious are the one that lack the moral compass.
Now do the study on whether religious people really are actually moral!
The question I get often is "if you don't have a God, what is stopping you from killing people?" Here's how to answer this question- put on your best shocked face and loudly say "Your God is the only reason you aren't murdering people?!" That always makes them retreat in embarrassment. Good.
Ironically enough, i have found some of the most amoral people are "religious". Personally, I think this stems from being able to be "forgiven" for revealing your "sins"...whether it's to a chaplain, minister or "God" themselves. When you have a "get out of jail free" card whenever you like, you tend to use it as a crutch. Don't get me wrong, I don't think it wasn't ever not needed, but the world and society has changed enough, that it's archaic. For example, eating pork was dangerous, because of the way pigs live (think wild boar). Now it's just as domesticated (and clean) as other sources of meat. Religion are rules to live by, for generations centuries past, that didn't know what we know today. We don't stone people anymore (at least in the west), yet that was once an acceptable punishment. Before anyone gets their panties twisted, this is my personal opinion...which I am entitled to, so drop your stone.
I'm an agnostic, I don't know if there is a God or gods or not. I am open to the idea, but I am also open to the idea that there isn't. Most of all I believe we're not really meant to find out. I think we can say a lot about the universe, but eventually we are flies against a window. There is only so much ape brains can process.
IN THE USA: Additionally, a 2020 Gallup poll showed that only 60 percent of respondents would vote for an atheist presidential candidate, whereas 95 percent would vote for a Catholic candidate, 93 percent would vote for a Jewish candidate, and 80 percent would vote for an evangelical Christian.
Can’t I love God AND do the right thing because it’s the right thing to do?
I'm an atheist and my husband isn't. He says I act better than any Christians he's met. I really wish religion was never invented, there's roughly 4,000 of them and everyone thinks theirs is the 'right' one. So basically, every week you're making the real god madder and madder, unless you picked the 1 in 4,000. The whole concept is ridiculous. They're all just cults.
first and foremost, we must not forget that most wars and suffering in the world have been caused by a religion or another.... one does not need any religion to be a moral or good person and know the difference between right and wrong.. if one needs a "bogey" in the form of some "deity" or another external "guardian" for this or says they don't kill/steal/abuse others only for the fear of some punishment, they are wretched humans.. morality is independent from religion but has been hijacked by the latter
Let's get this out there too. All of humanity is agnostic. "A-gnostic" simply means "without knowledge" and no one has knowledge of God or afterlife or reincarnation. Hence, the need for faith (for those that feel the need of reassurance). We are all agnostic. Let's call fence-sitters what they are: simply unsure of where they will land on the belief spectrum.
Atheism is the lack of belief in deities. Every baby that was ever born, was an atheist. Every baby that ever will be born, will be born an atheist. Every other position is acquired.
Load More Replies... About a year ago, I saw an article in the Guardian about a study showing that religious people were happy than atheists. I was tempted to write in and thank them for the good laugh.
Sigh. Yes, being religious doesn't make a person any better. But neither does being an atheist. There are just as many atheist a******s as there are religious a******s. A person who wants to do something bad will always be able to justify it to themselves. The difference between a religious person and an atheist is in the framework that they use to justify their actions.
When a religious person does good, it's attributed to his religion, for example if he donated a kidney people will say "well, they are raised to be altruistic". when an atheist is doing good it's attributed to his upbringing "he must be raised well". And when a religious person does bad it's never attributed to his religion "a rotten apple", but when an atheist does bad, sometimes, specially by religious people, it's "because those people raised without values, not like us".
Morality can be found in religious texts, sure. But it can also be learned from our experiences, discovered in history books, discussed with family, friends, and therapists, developed through introspection, lived out in relationships, watched on TV shows, reinforced through interaction with animals, and so on. There is no one source for morality. To quote the movie K-Pax "Every being in the universe knows right from wrong."
My partner has recently gone back to the Christian religion. He is the exact same person I met. It would be weird for me if he were suddenly kind out of fear, instead of his genuine compassion. As an atheist, the folk who truly frighten me are the ones who say things like "If it wasn't for the Lord, I'd be in jail for the things I would do.". Oh so you believe you'd get caught, but the thoughts are there?
"But to live outside the law, you must be honest." - Bob Dylan, Absolutely Sweet Marie
The religious need to read it. They can’t seem to tell nihilism and atheism apart.
Load More Replies... Regardless of what you tend to believe read thru the comments and ask yourself are they unkind statements concerning people of faith? Then rethink your definition of what morality means. Atheism has no existential grounding for morals. That type of "morality" is merely personal preference but certainly not a cohesive code of ethics. The article tries to posit that the atheist can have a quasi-religious ethos minus any religion. In a materialistic framework there are no objective definitions (absolutes) for "good" or "bad" - co-opting words is a shell game of subjectivity. Atheism rejects absolutes and especially absolute truths. Example - If you ask a religious person, "Why is such a thing wrong?" They would say, "Because of the objective standard I ascribe to which is outside of myself." Now that doesn't mean it's true but it does mean it's not subjective. If you ask the same of the atheist they will say, "Because I deem it to be so." which is completely subjective.
I'm so glad I'm not a "typical" Christian. I don't judge others, that's not my job. I do things for people (like give them rides to work, buy random gifts just because, give them food if they need it, etc)because that's just me, I don't try to convince anyone to go to church, become a Christian, etc. It's crazy to me how Christians are perceived by others.
Might be me, but I have never had or heard this kind of conversation over here. We accept the fact that it does not matter if you are religious or not, it's how you act which does matter. Asking people about their beliefs seems a very USA thing to do. Or am I wrong thinking that?
This is b******t - everyone is using Christianity as the template for religion. Yeah, there are a bunch of strict, potentially violent religions like Christianity and Islam. At the same time, there are also more relaxed, peace-loving religions like Hinduism and Buddhism. Don't generalize religion by using one of the most hateful ones as an example.
As a Christian, Christians thinking that atheists can't be nice drive me nuts. Flip, even the Bible clearly says that the law (that is, moral stuff) is written in peoples' hearts.
And it was referring specifically to people who don't worship the God whom the Bible considers to be true.
Load More Replies... Yes I don't need an imaginary sky daddy to tell me to treat people how I want to be treated. Met too many so-called Christians who use the bible to hate on others who are different.
Personally, I am Christian, but only because the religion provides me a source of comfort. It's not my place to judge anyone, or preach to anyone, nor do I want to! No hate to anyone at all! <3 (sorry if this comes off negatively, I just wanted to share my beliefs. It's ok to downvote)
I live in a country where only 20% declare to be religious/believers. I have never had an idea that morality is a result of some belief. In fact, Idk if Iam theist or atheist and what does it all mean, all these questions have no importance. To be honest, I have awkward experience with churchgoers, they were like sniffing to catch me doing some sin and to be happy they are "better".
In other news, a new study has shown that nature is dirty and water is wet.
Morals are decided on by a society. They may be based in some or all of the religions in that society, but you don't have to be a member of that society to agree with and adopt those morals. For example, the Bible teaches not to steal. Society says stealing is wrong, partly because the Bible teaches that and the society I live in is mostly Christian. But an atheist brought up in this society also knows that stealing is wrong, not only because there are laws against it, but because they know it would be wrong to have someone steal from them, so it's wrong to steal from others.
I guess I'm a "bi-theist" because I do believe in a creator, and there is much more than we can see, however, I don't believe in religious institutions anymore. Religions dictate moral compasses that are often not my cup of tea, for instance: wearing a headscarf, or black stockings, or not being able to marry your love if you were divorced or gay, etc. I'd rather be the Samaritan who helped even though it was a Sabbath.
I believe that would make you agnostic, no? Please do correct me if I am wrong. Like you I believe in a higher force, however, I do not believe in organized religion after some less than stellar experiences. I find beauty and joy in nature, the arts, and building friendships— that’s my version of spiritualism. I believe that people have the right worship and practice their faith. However, I am against anyone who utilizes religion to harm people. Yes, I believe that religion can help instill moral values, however, morality is and should be learned from real world experiences. It comes from working with people who may be different from you. It comes from learning about history. It comes from building empathy by listening to other people’s experiences.
Load More Replies... We all are born without dogma or religion, this is our starting position in life, the norm :: there are those that become theists - the unsullied are free thinkers :: the term atheist is religious and assumes theism to be the norm
Sorry, but this is a common misconception. Atheism is not a religion, nor is it religious. It is the absence of belief. Every person in the world is born an atheist and they always will be until the end of time.
Load More Replies... Please point to where it said every atheist is “swell” or any such thing 🤦🏻♀️
Load More Replies... This is what sickens me about religion and religious people. They claim the source for my morality is a god I don't even believe in. No. There is no god. I've never read a holy book. I can decide what's right and wrong all by myself, thank you very much! (No downvote from me btw. We should be able to discuss these things without pushing each other down.)
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