14 Powerful Portraits Of Men Reacting To New Mandatory Army Draft In Lithuania
Two women in Lithuania are using photography to approach a very controversial topic – military conscription, which was suddenly reinstated by the Lithuanian government just a few months ago. The series is a collaboration between Lithuanian actress and TV host Beata Tiskevic-Hasanova and Lithuanian photographer and political science student Neringa Rekasiute.
On May 11th, more than 37,000 men, aged 19-26, woke up and found their surnames on Lithuania’s compulsory military service list. 3,000 were needed for the first wave of recruits, but 2/3 of this first group were filled by volunteers. Some of these men took to social media to express their thoughts about what many called a sudden and random ‘lottery.’ The most disturbing thing was the very harsh and unforgiving public opinion of men who didn’t want to go to the army. They were called “unmanly,” “cowardly,” “disgraceful,” etc. This negativity caught Beata’s and Neringa’s attention and they decided to respond creatively.
They gathered 14 random men, aged 17-28, and took their portraits. The men are portrayed crying in military uniforms. Beata and Neringa thought it was a good way to show how dangerous gender expectations are: a man is expected to be rational, emotionless and aggressive. It is very important that we, as a society, teach men to express their emotions and not force a stereotypical archaic role onto them. The pictures are accompanied by the models’ quotes. They are expressing their opinions about what it is to be manly and how it relates to going to the army.
Text: Beata Tiskevic – Hasanova | Photos: Neringa Rekasiute | Photo retoucher: Simona Vaicyte | Special Thanks to Dominykas & Gintare
More info: neringark.com
JAUNIUS, 18: A gun in your hands doesn’t define your manliness
VYTAUTAS, 27: Army won’t make a man out of you – if you are a dumbass, you will stay a dumbass
DOMINYKAS, 26: It’s my choice what kind of man I want to be
JUSTAS, 18: The real strength is the ability to make your own mind. Let us be strong
VYTENIS, 18: I could go to the army. Sometimes I lack courage and stamina to do things. Army is good if you can handle it. I was inspired by my friend, a girl, who became a voluntary soldier
EDVINAS, 17: Can you imprison a man’s choice and call it free living?
DANAS, 28: In my opinion, the archaic times when a man was supposed to kill a buffalo and drag it home to his family are long over. I think that army is not a bad thing in general, but a compulsory one is definitely not a good thing either. Especially when the government announced it so suddenly without any public debate or preparation. A system should be introduced, one should know at school that there is a possibility to serve in the army, one should grow up with this idea
DENISAS, 23: In today’s free society there is no space for coercion. Compulsory things should be the ones you choose with your free will
MARTYNAS, 22: It’s manly to be able to choose for yourself
JEGOR, 25: Only when fighting you lose
ROKAS, 17: It is manly to work for your goals and ideas, and defend your values. I guess, everyone can go to the war, but army is not for everyone
MINDAUGAS, 25: When I was still at school, conscript army was removed. I was very happy then, but when I look back, I realize it was a better time to go to the army than it would be now when I have my own agency and when I have created jobs for other people – I need to look after all of it
JUSTAS, 27: Army is a waste of time. How many more soldiers do we need?
LUKAS, 25: If I was called to the army, I would try to find a way to avoid it. I have a wife, we are so good together and family for me is first. We have created so much, I wouldn’t want to leave it
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Share on FacebookTo make this take some hipsters, an HDR camera, a knife and a bag of onions, and viola!
Yeah, I'm trying to understand if this is real emotion, or just faked for the cameras. If it's faked, it's lame.
Load More Replies...I thought conscription was terrible too... But once I went through it all I honestly think it was time well spent.
It seems that the men in Lithuania are quite different than in Estonia. In Estonia men take prode serving their country.
I am from Lithuania and I am 17 years old. Nowadays we're talking with friends about serving in army and everybody in our school take it as a big pride. These men here ARE NOT real men, they are hipsters. These men were spoiled when they were young, look at them now. They are big pussies. Most of young people 16-20 years are willing to serve in army, I'm not talking about those 20-28 y/o spoiled fatties. Also look what Lithuanian government gives you for serving in army... For 9 months in trainings you get at least 2k euro + 50 percent cut of your university/college price and lots of other stuff. Basically you get A LOT , especially experience.
Load More Replies...if Russia is near it is better have the draft and also train all the population, train even the women, and have guns like the Swiss
Ljubomir - Estonia have beaten Russia once and will beat again. Do you know history or only propaganda? Russia is the biggest terrorist country in the world.
Load More Replies...Am I the only one who sees nothing wrong with this? They are not sending them to fight anyone yet, just sending them to TRAINING. they should do this, because in all other countries people do. and if they don't, they don't stand a chance against anyone.
There are only few countries in Europe nowadays where army is compulsory.and yes it wrong when people have careers and families
Load More Replies...Save your tears, when a new Nazi/Communist/Isis power invades your country you will really have something to cry about.
Oh come on you pussies! I was also dragged to the army in my country, im a metalhead i was wearing long hair for 7 years, my hole teenage years with long hair, Witch i had to cut, i was put away from my family, friends for 2 years, girlfriend that i had for 2 years left me. i didn´t cry a single tear, i served my country with proud, so shut up you wussies, you know nothing!
They dont do it in the UK and we are plenty good at killing other people and starting wars. When it comes to training to kill I think you should have a choice.
In the US, once a boy turns 18 he has to enlist for the draft (that's what it's called here). We are fortunate that we have enough voluntary soldiers and reservists that we haven't needed it in some time. However, it is known that the possibility exists to be called to duty in dire times for our country. It still seems rather archaic to me, though. Women can be soldiers, but we can't be drafted. When well that change?
The reason women can be drafted but men can is a simple matter of rebuilding the population after a worldwide disaster. One man can father children with many women, but each woman cam only carry one baby at a time. Therefore, more women are needed for reproduction purposes. Not saying I like it, just explaining why it's done that way.
Load More Replies...I thought mandatory drafting was bad, but after seeing these images, I completely agree with the Lithuania government. If this is what their youths are like, they're completely screwed. These guys need to man the #$%& up for their country.
I think it's easy to be f*****g ignorant. This is not fighting for your country, cause the people don't want war, this is fighting for the f*****g gouvernment. I don't give a f**k about their wars, I don't want to lose my life because a hand of inconpentents can't be "friends". And there is nothing "screwed" with those people.
Load More Replies...its time young men start thinking of their responsibilities to society and not society's responsibility to them.... a nation of we ... NOT ME
There are ways to contribute to society that don't involve the threat of being butchered.
Load More Replies...When do powerfull photos will start? Cuz now I see nothing but pathetic pix.
The British and American soldiers arent weeping in there beds defending YOUR COUNTRY ya f*****g pussies
British And American soldiers serving in Lithuania arent weeping in there beds defending your country ya f*****g pussys
From what I remember, defending your country is just a must. Because joining an army is a question of: either I myself die for them, or two dies for me, because army without help is even weaker, and Russia isn't a country that withholds from killing even civilians.
lmao. You aren't even forced to go to army in Lithuania if you have a valid reason why you can't go(studies/job etc.) and there are plenty of volunteers anyway, so these hipsters can continue to spend their time in Starbucks. Anyway these tears look so fake that no one would believe they're real, and none of the photos is really emotional.
Omg you have starbucks? Crying real tears now. In Estonia we have compulsory army but no starbucks. I myself really like starbucks more:D
Load More Replies...They should send the street punks into military training. Those who get into trouble all the time. Teach them morals and values. We could use that law in The Netherlands. Ps: Don't like the fake tears in the photo's.
And how exactly do you know that they are fake? Sure they could be, but then again they could be real.
Load More Replies...These pussies do not, yes, read it again. DO NOT represent Lithuanian men, these are crybabies who have no regard for our nation, "men" who think being ready to defend our way of life, our culture and traditions is not important. These are pampered young people, and as you would call them in western nations "liberals" who care more for smoking weed, partying and being fashionable... Please, if you are watching this article and thinking all of us Lithuanians are like this. I invite you to visit our beautiful nation and see for yourself that these wimps are much like the ones that plague every other nation, and do not represent our lifestyle or culture. God Bless You and cheer form Lithuania.
This is a war against men. The world stands on men's bones. Equality and rights - it is not about men.
Conscription for public service should apply equally to males and females with a range of options to serve. There is a lot of good we could do in the US with two years of service from every young person after high school from neighborhood patrols to mentoring grade school students to repairing infrastructure. Won't happen though.
total b******t...but nici eye drops...non of them are genuine tears
Man gėda pieš estus už tokius ( Lumesahk Talv 6 hours ago It seems that the men in Lithuania are quite different than in Estonia. In Estonia men take prode serving their country.) ...seniai mes tarp moteru pasišnekam kad Lietuvoje nebėra vyrú, net nenoriu share savo puslapyje kad neapsijuokčiau prieš pasaulį, va kodel musu moteris yra prezidente, kai vyru nera, moterys perima ju pareigas..
all of them are wearing exactly same uniform [look at camo pattern], and it is not even lithuania army uniform, and some of them are crying from outside eye corners, not where tears come from ... it is fake and it is plastic ... their words show selfishness lack of social responsibility and are even just stupid ... and most of them [all?] are hipster.hippie.punks, they just repeat learned mantra phrases, not present their own opinion
One question... Are we SO STUPID THAT WE CAN`T UNDERSTAND IN WHICH DANGER WE ARE BECAUSE OF RUSSIA (SAYING MORE CLEARLY - BECAUSE OF PUTTIN)? Who ever was so stupid and voluntarry gave up into his enemies hands without even trying to defend themselves, their families, their own homeland?
This is so obviously fake. As a human being, I must say I've dabbled in common sense a little bit here and there, and ZERO of these guys were actually crying. It's so easy to tell, and it's poorly photoshopped on several!
Buvau ruskiu armijoje DMB 1985 tarnavau 2 metus ir buvo viskas zjb. Neverkit mergaites barzdotos....
Scrape that hippie stuff off your face, and pull that junk out of your ears and nose. YOU'RE IN THE ARMY NOW, SON!
are these winter pictures? all I see are snowflakes. You can't defend your country with snowflakes.
These are woman, not men. Real men are fearless. All of my friends and most of school mates take it as a big pride serving in the army of Lithuania.
People shouldn't be forced to do something they don't want to do. What if your religion forbids the use of violence? Or if you are simply a pacifist by nature? It should be your right as a human being to live the way you wish without anyone forcing you to participate in or support the military. Most countries don't have conscription, and it's for good reason. It's an insult to your nation. It cheapens human life. You can be proud of your army and not want to be a soldier. You can be manly and not want to be a soldier. You can be the epitome of patriotic, and not want to be a soldier. What people really love about the military(and causes genuine pride) is when it is volunteer based.
The thing that sticks out to me the most in this is this line here: "In my opinion, the archaic times when a man was supposed to kill a buffalo and drag it home to his family are long over." This is the result of not being connected to your food. And now people are eating meals from powder.
Ugh, what to think... Yeah, the draft sucks and puts lots of decent young men to death for the goals of a corrupt elite that doesn't have the balls to fight the battles it starts, but these fake tears and self pity photos.... Look, sometimes people have to go to war to protect their nation and the lifestyle they have. Yes, it should be in only the most dire of circumstances, but crying or being butthurt because you're being called up to serve your nation? Get over it. Your ancestors did far more, including giving their actual lives for the cause. Grow your fecking balls back already, Europe. It's embarrassing now.
If this is real, there are prime example of what a mommy government makes it's male citizens into - complete self centered wimps who don't want to understand that peace only comes by the strength of a nations military. If you want a comfortable and safe environment for your wife and children to live in, then you have to be strong enough to stand up and pound on the guys who want you and yours to be their slaves. The cost of such peace is not cheap and came require your very life. Decide if you love those you will fighting to protect, or if you value their freedom and yours freedom for a short period of service or a lifetime as a slave. This just might be the last free choice you will have for the rest of your life.
If your a conscientious objector you can opt to go to prison... men in South Korea do it everyday...as jehovahs witnesses we don't participate
You can go to prison instead of joining the army if it really is not what you believe. ..many in South Korea do it everyday..many do it as conscientious objectors...jehovahs witnesses go to prison over joining
Lithuania, like Ukraine is not to blame for the fact that the Russian side. In the meantime, Russia exists all over the world should have an army. For example, in my country, Russia is waging war.
This sets gender equality back years. It reinstates the stereotypes that men must fight in wars and kill to be considered a 'real man' whereas women are too frail and dainty to handle the horrors of war. I completely disagree with conscription and I believe it to be a violation of a person's rights. Surely in the 21st century, these gender roles shouldn't still exist.
I couldn't even finish this. What sort of army has a bunch of crying, wimpy men? Pathetic!
Ohh lol!!! read an article on a potential national threat increasing due to the lack of soldiers in Lithuania, and it was pointed out that there are no tanks or aircrafts at their disposal. Ermmmm so if there are no machinery what difference will it make, whether you have 15k troops or 30k -.-, it would probs be enough to send 1 fighter jet to bomb all military bases and no matter how many peasants you have, you won't stand a chance, its the age of technology and brain, I doubt I could punch out a fighter jet, so yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee, r******d. SO conclusion, invest in military equipment, rather than recruits. I'm either missing the point, or government is that dumb??? or as I said before there is a bigger agenda, if it was true what they're saying then, you can conclude they're a bunch of morons, its no longer medieval times, quantity of men doesn't prevail, unless each one has a tank/fighter jet. Russia could take Lithuania in a day if NATO didn't intervene.
I'll quote Zane Briska here, because he/she is one of the few people here who got the point. "if it's a concept it doesn't matter if it is fake or real - it's symbolism not documentary photo...." As for my own opinions of military conscription, I think men should and must have the right to choose. And, please, don't nobody say "you don't know what war is", I was a baby, but I did experience one.
This is a big pile of b******t! I live in Lithuania and i know what kind of people are in the army, when me and my friends were drafted we just thought that this is just one more step in life that you have to climb to get to the top. These kids in photos are just pussy a*s hipsters that shame my country, and how could they agree to this b******t, now the whole world will think that Lithuania is a bunch of pussies that can't go through army...
In times like this I wonder where is the gender equality that we always hear about. Why the women were spared?
Why is suddenly government so decided to force young men in Lithuania to go to army. They are affraid of CIA-paid-media-made fear from Russian attack? Don't be fools.
Only 9 months. What's there to cry about? You get free food, free lodging and free uniforms. You get to meet people whom you will never ever meet in your life (during my two years in the army, I rubbed shoulders with men from the higher echelons of society, an experience that will never happen to me given my low-class, blue-collar social class). It was also during the conscription that you truly know how are your real friends, and who are the ones that will take a bullet for you and likewise charge next to you to attack an enemy defense position. 9 months is nothing. Serve it with pride, walk out a better man, a useful person to society. Serve it bitterly? Then everyday will be a rainy day. "Country before self"
27 year old, male, ex-infantry leftenant, from small island nation voicing here. The issue of conscription or National Service (as it is better known where I come from) is a controversial, segregation-al, sensitive and an emotion-fueled topic. There are basically two camps: those who support and those who are against. And I was very fortunate to have lived in an environment where I was exposed to views from both parties. My father, like all males in my country, served in our army for a good 2 years of his life. Those two years had a significant impact in his life. From young, he would tell exciting stories about his army life to me and my brother. My German uncle on the other hand detests the army. Given the short word limit, what I want to say is this - Country before self. If we don't do what it takes to protect our homes; say goodbye to dance festivals, american pop music, good food and drinks. How one makes the most of their national service is totally up to them. Regards.
oh, I cant believe, just explain what will be with them in medieval ages :D
Absurd. Pro-army-pompous activists say "Protect Your values, join the military". Well Those may be the pro-army activist's values but they sure ain't mine. And the certainty of the statement... Like there can't even be a possibility that someone might have different values. If honest, they should be saying " Protect MY values, because I don't find your existence useful to ME in any other way"
Where are all the egalitarian femanazis signing up to fight. No refuse to fight in another war for the femanazis.
The only pussie's that are in the world are the ones that talk all the s**t and don't back anything up. We all would do what it takes to protect are family's. So don't say you would or wouldn't do something because you really don't know till it happens to you.
How much more cynical can you get? Is it that hard to believe that that are men out there that really do not want to wear this uniform or go to war? If it helps you sleep at nite, then go ahead and tell yourself its a bag of onions!
I am quite sure it's faked up with onions or an eye dropper and some glycerin....
is snukiu matosi kad bobos :) tokie apsimyzeliai net savo panos neuzstotu gatvej o duotu i kojas
You should know by now that life isn't fair. Protect your families and smile as you do it. I never was drafted, but if I was I would put on the uniform without hesitation. I don't believe in killing another human being. You still can shoot them and put them out of the conflict or war...
I truly don't understand these guys...I know that military service can be hard and mostly the possibility of a war breaking out can be overwhelming but still....crying like a baby when you always wanted to project the image of a badass guy and not understanding that a true man does his best to protect his country and all that it stands for...We could die everyday at any moment so why cry? Life is wonderful but acting like a coward isn't worth it. Maybe I'm too dramatic but this is what I think! Cheers!
https://scontent-ams2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/l/t1.0-9/11401188_10200574166873825_8637316446419932398_n.jpg?oh=6a73713d02f7c0d680b27de901b0e0a0&oe=560A0038 Manlly man. Yeah sure.
https://scontent-ams2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/l/t1.0-9/11401188_10200574166873825_8637316446419932398_n.jpg?oh=6a73713d02f7c0d680b27de901b0e0a0&oe=560A0038 Enough said. Manlly man yeah sure.
Set up, not real, doesn't even pull on the heart strings. Just lame. I'm sorry about the plight that their country reinstated military service, but seriously, its so obvious, the hipsters just 'don't want to do it'. Its not about them as a person or their country, they are just kids, and they are crying because they are being made to do something really difficult and they just don't want to do it.
Hey Neringa, can you tell us more about who shames these young men? Is it comparable to the "White Feather" movement http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_feather that was lead by women? The did publicly shame young men who did not join the war with giving them a white feather and making posters and flyers.
If Russia takes Ukraine, Lithuania could very well be next country they invade, and I highly doubt that Russian soldiers will give a s**t about these guys' feelings. There is nothing awesome about crying on camera when your home is being threatened.
Wow! This must be the most pathetic bunch of pants-pissing mamma's boys i've ever seen :( All adult men crying that they might have to take some responsibility & learn discipline, this is what happens when young lads are told to play with barbie dolls & get in touch with their feminine side ... so pathetic it's not even funny.
All photo made by camera "Canon EOS 5D mark II", all photo edited by software "Adobe photoshop CS6 (Macintosh)", this knowledge by EXIF info.
I'm from a country where it is mandatory to serve in the armed forces. The good part of it is all of us already know when we are going in & can make plans for it. It is sad to be at the beginning of this plan where people are caught off guard & have to make drastic changes to their life in order to fulfill it.
SHEEP MODUS AWAY! Get awake and SEE with a different view to the world. Learn the lessons from history, you can't make peace with war, you are always a toy of the people that you force or brainwashed to go and battle. There is nothing to be proud of it to kill people and serve your country. You can be the change to think on other way.
Oh, for **** sake, it's LITHUANIA. These guys are never going to have to fight, except maybe in a defensive war against an invading power; and were one of those to happen, it's likely they'd be imprisoned as "fighting-age males" anyway. This way, they get money and experience, they'll serve for two-to-five years as part-time reservists, and at the end they'll have a skill set that gives them the option to stand up and fight should they choose to do so should the need arise for, say, civilian partisan fighters. Hell, the vast majority of military personnel aren't even front-line soldiers; they're support staff and logistical/intel specialists. These guys could go into the air force, and come out with all the training they'd need to be an air traffic controller or flight mechanic. Boo-****-hoo.
Um... I was completely under-whelmed by these photos. Was I the only one?
War can totally f**k your day can't it! Vigilance will keep you FREE!!
Can you guys stop debating about whether it's posed or not and focus on the actual point?
what i still can't understand and find so amazing, yes, i'll use that word, is, that in the WHOLE known Universe, there is no other planet with life, we are it, yet war after war, kill after kill, when will it sink in that if we nuke this place, the Last War, we will end...US, so no matter what we want, the powers of our heads of state all over the world don't understand, we...are...alone, in the Universe, there's nothing out there
this is a Total Fake, this is a total lie. Lithuanians died protesting the Soviet Union & they were the first to gain their freedom
Total BS, a this is a total lie. Lithuanians died protesting the Soviet Union & they were the first to gain their freedom.
Never met a person that came out of the military worse than they went in, best 9 years I ever did, and that includes combat too, soon sorts out today's a*s holes very quickly.
These hipsters and anarchists are not in the conscript list. This project is just intended to get the atention away from agressor next door Putler. Those cries is just an ivitation for russofashists. Its good that in Lithuania there are just a couple of crying "men" like this.
I'm sure they were all stoned (look at the weed red eyes) and knowing each other, wearing the same uniforms :D lol full moon begins be carefull :D
The only one i really felt sorry for is the guy with a wife, it must be terrible, the rest are just a bunch of hipster faggots.
So while it is great idea as far was the artisic idea goes, the implementation is flawed and I am ashamed that Bored Panda would post something in the world of such political conflict and bias. The photos are flawed by even selfy standards, not to mention they are not natural looking. What it looks like is random people dressed in camo who like random portraits of having some rain down their eyes. So in the end no artistic or major social revelence which should be in fact contributed to majority of your bussines and your posts. This post just proves your bias towars some kind of politcal situation which i hoped to avoid while visiting your site. I am here to see revelent bored panda issues, not political ones, i want to be amazes while I am bored. If you can not do that to me as a client then well f**k you.
some people are not born to be murderers.....what is so great ,unique and manly about volunteering to go kill people for someone elses agenda...and some of those photos look fake.
Nobody should be forced to do something they hate or which is not within their nature... it's wrong. We should all be following our hearts not our head, or worse, a gun.
Ofcourse it's easy to say what army is your own choice, until somebody wouldn't attacked your country, and then what? "dumbass" will protect your country, your family and your life until all of this guys will make photos with tears like men? All men and women need to be ready to protect their own country!
Maybe id have less problems with this if females were drafted too... Until then anyone who agrees with this action is nothing but a sexist nazi.
Except men tend to rape and sexually abuse women in the military, as well as innocent civilians. It's not good for anyone to be in the military, but you certainly can't expect women to serve along men as long as they behave like savages
Load More Replies...This is awefull. If war is still the solution for conflicts between nations the humanity is so f*****g wrong.
How under EU law is this legal? Where dose the human right act come into play. To force an adult citizen into a something that should be a choice seems the opposite of the very freedom you want to defend.
Send all military officials to concentration camps, stab them in the necks, cut up their spinal cords, and fry up their flesh for their family members to eat.
Involuntary conscription has no place in a free society. I'm sorry, but this is - quite literally - slavery. Does the state exist to fulfil human needs, or do humans exist to serve the state? If the latter, doesn't that make the state your god? It doesn't matter if it's "good for them" or if "benefits" are offered in exchange. Hard work is good for slaves, and slaves are fed and housed. The point is LIBERTY, the dignity of the individual. When we use that, populations become the playthings of depraved leaders, and we have more holocausts, more World Wars, more massacres. Tens of millions of citizens were murdered by THEIR OWN GOVERNMENTS in the previous century. That's not including those of other nations they killed in war. Can we really afford to blindly trust in, and slavishly serve, an anonymous, monolithic, bureaucratic god who demands human sacrifice?
What a bunch of whiners we have become. It's not enough to enjoy your freedom you have to fight for it too.
I agree with idea that conscription is absurd in 21st century. I am 23 old woman from Latvia and even knowing my country history, I am against military action at all. But if it's so needed why can't start with propaganda - I believe if missed only 1/3 part , you can get them by asking for them. There is no need to use people who have already other plans for nearest future, especially if they have started some rational projects... I haven't heard that Lithuania should worry about something like it - but maybe I am wrong, dunno, I am not really into politics XD
why is the internet so full of haters. some react negative on the post and then others attack the ones that reacted negatively..... jesus just let people be. maybe some want to join the army and others dont - fine! theres no reason to call anyone pussies or heartless people. peace out
PUSSIES!!! sadly i can't role the years back, as i would be proud to go to Lithuanias arme
Let me make sure I understand what you're saying. Are we to understand you didn't serve, but are calling them pussies for not wanting to serve?
Load More Replies...I'm from Estonia and all of my friends have gone or will go through military training for 8-11 months.I think there is no point in rebelling against it. WHY CRY ABOUT IT? try to looking at it as a learning and developing experience aka how to live in completely different living conditions and survival and discipline in general. I mean u get to pretty much work out and eat free food and get in great shape for example ...think of it like free gym membership haha. all jokes aside I think this is probably wise considering the recent events in Ukraine and that The Baltics are in the ,,danger zone'' better safe than sorry...
That's exactly what I'm trying to prove those hipsters whole day. They are crying and s**t, WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO MY SON OH NO AFGANISTHAN/SYRIA OH NOEZ. Stupid. Respect to Estonian army.
Load More Replies...u dont know how is army in Lithuania.. it takes of your hopes and dreams and gives gun in your hand... guys are changed after army...
Do obviously don't - have family and friends in/from army - fantastic guys. Nothing wrong woth Lit army you fool
Load More Replies...Conscription may be a frightening idea, but these portraits are powerfully ugly.
14 pussies (interpretation of a word "pussy" is upon your discretion)
Indeed, they are pussies for not doing the research and fleeing to a more civilized country. (Iceland, Greenland, Sweden, you name it)
Load More Replies...Мне аднаму здаецца, што гэтыя хлопчыкі не вартыя называцца мужчынамі. Нармальны мужык ніколі не пакажа сваіх эмоцый на публіцы, калі ён з чым-то не згодны, то ён будзе змагацца за свае прынцыпы і ідэалы. Але мяркуючы па іх асобам яны не змогуць змагацца ні за што ў сваім жыцці: ні за сваю радзіму, ні за сваю будучыню, ні за што б там ні было. Яны не гатовыя нешта вырашаць у сваім жыцці. Брыдка.
Так, можливо, вони дійсно не готові. Але це не визначає їх стать, як і не визначає, хто вони. Вони хочу бути вільними і це є ознакою людини. Якщо чоловік - то є раб, то, вибачте, але у вас у самого логіка раба.
Load More Replies...How embarrassing to cry because one can't handle reality. Philosophies are great but they will not keep you alive
Oh and I forgot- so sorry- the fact you said "Women will do better than those morrrons !" Are you sexist too? DISGUSTING.
Load More Replies...To make this take some hipsters, an HDR camera, a knife and a bag of onions, and viola!
Yeah, I'm trying to understand if this is real emotion, or just faked for the cameras. If it's faked, it's lame.
Load More Replies...I thought conscription was terrible too... But once I went through it all I honestly think it was time well spent.
It seems that the men in Lithuania are quite different than in Estonia. In Estonia men take prode serving their country.
I am from Lithuania and I am 17 years old. Nowadays we're talking with friends about serving in army and everybody in our school take it as a big pride. These men here ARE NOT real men, they are hipsters. These men were spoiled when they were young, look at them now. They are big pussies. Most of young people 16-20 years are willing to serve in army, I'm not talking about those 20-28 y/o spoiled fatties. Also look what Lithuanian government gives you for serving in army... For 9 months in trainings you get at least 2k euro + 50 percent cut of your university/college price and lots of other stuff. Basically you get A LOT , especially experience.
Load More Replies...if Russia is near it is better have the draft and also train all the population, train even the women, and have guns like the Swiss
Ljubomir - Estonia have beaten Russia once and will beat again. Do you know history or only propaganda? Russia is the biggest terrorist country in the world.
Load More Replies...Am I the only one who sees nothing wrong with this? They are not sending them to fight anyone yet, just sending them to TRAINING. they should do this, because in all other countries people do. and if they don't, they don't stand a chance against anyone.
There are only few countries in Europe nowadays where army is compulsory.and yes it wrong when people have careers and families
Load More Replies...Save your tears, when a new Nazi/Communist/Isis power invades your country you will really have something to cry about.
Oh come on you pussies! I was also dragged to the army in my country, im a metalhead i was wearing long hair for 7 years, my hole teenage years with long hair, Witch i had to cut, i was put away from my family, friends for 2 years, girlfriend that i had for 2 years left me. i didn´t cry a single tear, i served my country with proud, so shut up you wussies, you know nothing!
They dont do it in the UK and we are plenty good at killing other people and starting wars. When it comes to training to kill I think you should have a choice.
In the US, once a boy turns 18 he has to enlist for the draft (that's what it's called here). We are fortunate that we have enough voluntary soldiers and reservists that we haven't needed it in some time. However, it is known that the possibility exists to be called to duty in dire times for our country. It still seems rather archaic to me, though. Women can be soldiers, but we can't be drafted. When well that change?
The reason women can be drafted but men can is a simple matter of rebuilding the population after a worldwide disaster. One man can father children with many women, but each woman cam only carry one baby at a time. Therefore, more women are needed for reproduction purposes. Not saying I like it, just explaining why it's done that way.
Load More Replies...I thought mandatory drafting was bad, but after seeing these images, I completely agree with the Lithuania government. If this is what their youths are like, they're completely screwed. These guys need to man the #$%& up for their country.
I think it's easy to be f*****g ignorant. This is not fighting for your country, cause the people don't want war, this is fighting for the f*****g gouvernment. I don't give a f**k about their wars, I don't want to lose my life because a hand of inconpentents can't be "friends". And there is nothing "screwed" with those people.
Load More Replies...its time young men start thinking of their responsibilities to society and not society's responsibility to them.... a nation of we ... NOT ME
There are ways to contribute to society that don't involve the threat of being butchered.
Load More Replies...When do powerfull photos will start? Cuz now I see nothing but pathetic pix.
The British and American soldiers arent weeping in there beds defending YOUR COUNTRY ya f*****g pussies
British And American soldiers serving in Lithuania arent weeping in there beds defending your country ya f*****g pussys
From what I remember, defending your country is just a must. Because joining an army is a question of: either I myself die for them, or two dies for me, because army without help is even weaker, and Russia isn't a country that withholds from killing even civilians.
lmao. You aren't even forced to go to army in Lithuania if you have a valid reason why you can't go(studies/job etc.) and there are plenty of volunteers anyway, so these hipsters can continue to spend their time in Starbucks. Anyway these tears look so fake that no one would believe they're real, and none of the photos is really emotional.
Omg you have starbucks? Crying real tears now. In Estonia we have compulsory army but no starbucks. I myself really like starbucks more:D
Load More Replies...They should send the street punks into military training. Those who get into trouble all the time. Teach them morals and values. We could use that law in The Netherlands. Ps: Don't like the fake tears in the photo's.
And how exactly do you know that they are fake? Sure they could be, but then again they could be real.
Load More Replies...These pussies do not, yes, read it again. DO NOT represent Lithuanian men, these are crybabies who have no regard for our nation, "men" who think being ready to defend our way of life, our culture and traditions is not important. These are pampered young people, and as you would call them in western nations "liberals" who care more for smoking weed, partying and being fashionable... Please, if you are watching this article and thinking all of us Lithuanians are like this. I invite you to visit our beautiful nation and see for yourself that these wimps are much like the ones that plague every other nation, and do not represent our lifestyle or culture. God Bless You and cheer form Lithuania.
This is a war against men. The world stands on men's bones. Equality and rights - it is not about men.
Conscription for public service should apply equally to males and females with a range of options to serve. There is a lot of good we could do in the US with two years of service from every young person after high school from neighborhood patrols to mentoring grade school students to repairing infrastructure. Won't happen though.
total b******t...but nici eye drops...non of them are genuine tears
Man gėda pieš estus už tokius ( Lumesahk Talv 6 hours ago It seems that the men in Lithuania are quite different than in Estonia. In Estonia men take prode serving their country.) ...seniai mes tarp moteru pasišnekam kad Lietuvoje nebėra vyrú, net nenoriu share savo puslapyje kad neapsijuokčiau prieš pasaulį, va kodel musu moteris yra prezidente, kai vyru nera, moterys perima ju pareigas..
all of them are wearing exactly same uniform [look at camo pattern], and it is not even lithuania army uniform, and some of them are crying from outside eye corners, not where tears come from ... it is fake and it is plastic ... their words show selfishness lack of social responsibility and are even just stupid ... and most of them [all?] are hipster.hippie.punks, they just repeat learned mantra phrases, not present their own opinion
One question... Are we SO STUPID THAT WE CAN`T UNDERSTAND IN WHICH DANGER WE ARE BECAUSE OF RUSSIA (SAYING MORE CLEARLY - BECAUSE OF PUTTIN)? Who ever was so stupid and voluntarry gave up into his enemies hands without even trying to defend themselves, their families, their own homeland?
This is so obviously fake. As a human being, I must say I've dabbled in common sense a little bit here and there, and ZERO of these guys were actually crying. It's so easy to tell, and it's poorly photoshopped on several!
Buvau ruskiu armijoje DMB 1985 tarnavau 2 metus ir buvo viskas zjb. Neverkit mergaites barzdotos....
Scrape that hippie stuff off your face, and pull that junk out of your ears and nose. YOU'RE IN THE ARMY NOW, SON!
are these winter pictures? all I see are snowflakes. You can't defend your country with snowflakes.
These are woman, not men. Real men are fearless. All of my friends and most of school mates take it as a big pride serving in the army of Lithuania.
People shouldn't be forced to do something they don't want to do. What if your religion forbids the use of violence? Or if you are simply a pacifist by nature? It should be your right as a human being to live the way you wish without anyone forcing you to participate in or support the military. Most countries don't have conscription, and it's for good reason. It's an insult to your nation. It cheapens human life. You can be proud of your army and not want to be a soldier. You can be manly and not want to be a soldier. You can be the epitome of patriotic, and not want to be a soldier. What people really love about the military(and causes genuine pride) is when it is volunteer based.
The thing that sticks out to me the most in this is this line here: "In my opinion, the archaic times when a man was supposed to kill a buffalo and drag it home to his family are long over." This is the result of not being connected to your food. And now people are eating meals from powder.
Ugh, what to think... Yeah, the draft sucks and puts lots of decent young men to death for the goals of a corrupt elite that doesn't have the balls to fight the battles it starts, but these fake tears and self pity photos.... Look, sometimes people have to go to war to protect their nation and the lifestyle they have. Yes, it should be in only the most dire of circumstances, but crying or being butthurt because you're being called up to serve your nation? Get over it. Your ancestors did far more, including giving their actual lives for the cause. Grow your fecking balls back already, Europe. It's embarrassing now.
If this is real, there are prime example of what a mommy government makes it's male citizens into - complete self centered wimps who don't want to understand that peace only comes by the strength of a nations military. If you want a comfortable and safe environment for your wife and children to live in, then you have to be strong enough to stand up and pound on the guys who want you and yours to be their slaves. The cost of such peace is not cheap and came require your very life. Decide if you love those you will fighting to protect, or if you value their freedom and yours freedom for a short period of service or a lifetime as a slave. This just might be the last free choice you will have for the rest of your life.
If your a conscientious objector you can opt to go to prison... men in South Korea do it everyday...as jehovahs witnesses we don't participate
You can go to prison instead of joining the army if it really is not what you believe. ..many in South Korea do it everyday..many do it as conscientious objectors...jehovahs witnesses go to prison over joining
Lithuania, like Ukraine is not to blame for the fact that the Russian side. In the meantime, Russia exists all over the world should have an army. For example, in my country, Russia is waging war.
This sets gender equality back years. It reinstates the stereotypes that men must fight in wars and kill to be considered a 'real man' whereas women are too frail and dainty to handle the horrors of war. I completely disagree with conscription and I believe it to be a violation of a person's rights. Surely in the 21st century, these gender roles shouldn't still exist.
I couldn't even finish this. What sort of army has a bunch of crying, wimpy men? Pathetic!
Ohh lol!!! read an article on a potential national threat increasing due to the lack of soldiers in Lithuania, and it was pointed out that there are no tanks or aircrafts at their disposal. Ermmmm so if there are no machinery what difference will it make, whether you have 15k troops or 30k -.-, it would probs be enough to send 1 fighter jet to bomb all military bases and no matter how many peasants you have, you won't stand a chance, its the age of technology and brain, I doubt I could punch out a fighter jet, so yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee, r******d. SO conclusion, invest in military equipment, rather than recruits. I'm either missing the point, or government is that dumb??? or as I said before there is a bigger agenda, if it was true what they're saying then, you can conclude they're a bunch of morons, its no longer medieval times, quantity of men doesn't prevail, unless each one has a tank/fighter jet. Russia could take Lithuania in a day if NATO didn't intervene.
I'll quote Zane Briska here, because he/she is one of the few people here who got the point. "if it's a concept it doesn't matter if it is fake or real - it's symbolism not documentary photo...." As for my own opinions of military conscription, I think men should and must have the right to choose. And, please, don't nobody say "you don't know what war is", I was a baby, but I did experience one.
This is a big pile of b******t! I live in Lithuania and i know what kind of people are in the army, when me and my friends were drafted we just thought that this is just one more step in life that you have to climb to get to the top. These kids in photos are just pussy a*s hipsters that shame my country, and how could they agree to this b******t, now the whole world will think that Lithuania is a bunch of pussies that can't go through army...
In times like this I wonder where is the gender equality that we always hear about. Why the women were spared?
Why is suddenly government so decided to force young men in Lithuania to go to army. They are affraid of CIA-paid-media-made fear from Russian attack? Don't be fools.
Only 9 months. What's there to cry about? You get free food, free lodging and free uniforms. You get to meet people whom you will never ever meet in your life (during my two years in the army, I rubbed shoulders with men from the higher echelons of society, an experience that will never happen to me given my low-class, blue-collar social class). It was also during the conscription that you truly know how are your real friends, and who are the ones that will take a bullet for you and likewise charge next to you to attack an enemy defense position. 9 months is nothing. Serve it with pride, walk out a better man, a useful person to society. Serve it bitterly? Then everyday will be a rainy day. "Country before self"
27 year old, male, ex-infantry leftenant, from small island nation voicing here. The issue of conscription or National Service (as it is better known where I come from) is a controversial, segregation-al, sensitive and an emotion-fueled topic. There are basically two camps: those who support and those who are against. And I was very fortunate to have lived in an environment where I was exposed to views from both parties. My father, like all males in my country, served in our army for a good 2 years of his life. Those two years had a significant impact in his life. From young, he would tell exciting stories about his army life to me and my brother. My German uncle on the other hand detests the army. Given the short word limit, what I want to say is this - Country before self. If we don't do what it takes to protect our homes; say goodbye to dance festivals, american pop music, good food and drinks. How one makes the most of their national service is totally up to them. Regards.
oh, I cant believe, just explain what will be with them in medieval ages :D
Absurd. Pro-army-pompous activists say "Protect Your values, join the military". Well Those may be the pro-army activist's values but they sure ain't mine. And the certainty of the statement... Like there can't even be a possibility that someone might have different values. If honest, they should be saying " Protect MY values, because I don't find your existence useful to ME in any other way"
Where are all the egalitarian femanazis signing up to fight. No refuse to fight in another war for the femanazis.
The only pussie's that are in the world are the ones that talk all the s**t and don't back anything up. We all would do what it takes to protect are family's. So don't say you would or wouldn't do something because you really don't know till it happens to you.
How much more cynical can you get? Is it that hard to believe that that are men out there that really do not want to wear this uniform or go to war? If it helps you sleep at nite, then go ahead and tell yourself its a bag of onions!
I am quite sure it's faked up with onions or an eye dropper and some glycerin....
is snukiu matosi kad bobos :) tokie apsimyzeliai net savo panos neuzstotu gatvej o duotu i kojas
You should know by now that life isn't fair. Protect your families and smile as you do it. I never was drafted, but if I was I would put on the uniform without hesitation. I don't believe in killing another human being. You still can shoot them and put them out of the conflict or war...
I truly don't understand these guys...I know that military service can be hard and mostly the possibility of a war breaking out can be overwhelming but still....crying like a baby when you always wanted to project the image of a badass guy and not understanding that a true man does his best to protect his country and all that it stands for...We could die everyday at any moment so why cry? Life is wonderful but acting like a coward isn't worth it. Maybe I'm too dramatic but this is what I think! Cheers!
https://scontent-ams2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/l/t1.0-9/11401188_10200574166873825_8637316446419932398_n.jpg?oh=6a73713d02f7c0d680b27de901b0e0a0&oe=560A0038 Manlly man. Yeah sure.
https://scontent-ams2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/l/t1.0-9/11401188_10200574166873825_8637316446419932398_n.jpg?oh=6a73713d02f7c0d680b27de901b0e0a0&oe=560A0038 Enough said. Manlly man yeah sure.
Set up, not real, doesn't even pull on the heart strings. Just lame. I'm sorry about the plight that their country reinstated military service, but seriously, its so obvious, the hipsters just 'don't want to do it'. Its not about them as a person or their country, they are just kids, and they are crying because they are being made to do something really difficult and they just don't want to do it.
Hey Neringa, can you tell us more about who shames these young men? Is it comparable to the "White Feather" movement http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_feather that was lead by women? The did publicly shame young men who did not join the war with giving them a white feather and making posters and flyers.
If Russia takes Ukraine, Lithuania could very well be next country they invade, and I highly doubt that Russian soldiers will give a s**t about these guys' feelings. There is nothing awesome about crying on camera when your home is being threatened.
Wow! This must be the most pathetic bunch of pants-pissing mamma's boys i've ever seen :( All adult men crying that they might have to take some responsibility & learn discipline, this is what happens when young lads are told to play with barbie dolls & get in touch with their feminine side ... so pathetic it's not even funny.
All photo made by camera "Canon EOS 5D mark II", all photo edited by software "Adobe photoshop CS6 (Macintosh)", this knowledge by EXIF info.
I'm from a country where it is mandatory to serve in the armed forces. The good part of it is all of us already know when we are going in & can make plans for it. It is sad to be at the beginning of this plan where people are caught off guard & have to make drastic changes to their life in order to fulfill it.
SHEEP MODUS AWAY! Get awake and SEE with a different view to the world. Learn the lessons from history, you can't make peace with war, you are always a toy of the people that you force or brainwashed to go and battle. There is nothing to be proud of it to kill people and serve your country. You can be the change to think on other way.
Oh, for **** sake, it's LITHUANIA. These guys are never going to have to fight, except maybe in a defensive war against an invading power; and were one of those to happen, it's likely they'd be imprisoned as "fighting-age males" anyway. This way, they get money and experience, they'll serve for two-to-five years as part-time reservists, and at the end they'll have a skill set that gives them the option to stand up and fight should they choose to do so should the need arise for, say, civilian partisan fighters. Hell, the vast majority of military personnel aren't even front-line soldiers; they're support staff and logistical/intel specialists. These guys could go into the air force, and come out with all the training they'd need to be an air traffic controller or flight mechanic. Boo-****-hoo.
Um... I was completely under-whelmed by these photos. Was I the only one?
War can totally f**k your day can't it! Vigilance will keep you FREE!!
Can you guys stop debating about whether it's posed or not and focus on the actual point?
what i still can't understand and find so amazing, yes, i'll use that word, is, that in the WHOLE known Universe, there is no other planet with life, we are it, yet war after war, kill after kill, when will it sink in that if we nuke this place, the Last War, we will end...US, so no matter what we want, the powers of our heads of state all over the world don't understand, we...are...alone, in the Universe, there's nothing out there
this is a Total Fake, this is a total lie. Lithuanians died protesting the Soviet Union & they were the first to gain their freedom
Total BS, a this is a total lie. Lithuanians died protesting the Soviet Union & they were the first to gain their freedom.
Never met a person that came out of the military worse than they went in, best 9 years I ever did, and that includes combat too, soon sorts out today's a*s holes very quickly.
These hipsters and anarchists are not in the conscript list. This project is just intended to get the atention away from agressor next door Putler. Those cries is just an ivitation for russofashists. Its good that in Lithuania there are just a couple of crying "men" like this.
I'm sure they were all stoned (look at the weed red eyes) and knowing each other, wearing the same uniforms :D lol full moon begins be carefull :D
The only one i really felt sorry for is the guy with a wife, it must be terrible, the rest are just a bunch of hipster faggots.
So while it is great idea as far was the artisic idea goes, the implementation is flawed and I am ashamed that Bored Panda would post something in the world of such political conflict and bias. The photos are flawed by even selfy standards, not to mention they are not natural looking. What it looks like is random people dressed in camo who like random portraits of having some rain down their eyes. So in the end no artistic or major social revelence which should be in fact contributed to majority of your bussines and your posts. This post just proves your bias towars some kind of politcal situation which i hoped to avoid while visiting your site. I am here to see revelent bored panda issues, not political ones, i want to be amazes while I am bored. If you can not do that to me as a client then well f**k you.
some people are not born to be murderers.....what is so great ,unique and manly about volunteering to go kill people for someone elses agenda...and some of those photos look fake.
Nobody should be forced to do something they hate or which is not within their nature... it's wrong. We should all be following our hearts not our head, or worse, a gun.
Ofcourse it's easy to say what army is your own choice, until somebody wouldn't attacked your country, and then what? "dumbass" will protect your country, your family and your life until all of this guys will make photos with tears like men? All men and women need to be ready to protect their own country!
Maybe id have less problems with this if females were drafted too... Until then anyone who agrees with this action is nothing but a sexist nazi.
Except men tend to rape and sexually abuse women in the military, as well as innocent civilians. It's not good for anyone to be in the military, but you certainly can't expect women to serve along men as long as they behave like savages
Load More Replies...This is awefull. If war is still the solution for conflicts between nations the humanity is so f*****g wrong.
How under EU law is this legal? Where dose the human right act come into play. To force an adult citizen into a something that should be a choice seems the opposite of the very freedom you want to defend.
Send all military officials to concentration camps, stab them in the necks, cut up their spinal cords, and fry up their flesh for their family members to eat.
Involuntary conscription has no place in a free society. I'm sorry, but this is - quite literally - slavery. Does the state exist to fulfil human needs, or do humans exist to serve the state? If the latter, doesn't that make the state your god? It doesn't matter if it's "good for them" or if "benefits" are offered in exchange. Hard work is good for slaves, and slaves are fed and housed. The point is LIBERTY, the dignity of the individual. When we use that, populations become the playthings of depraved leaders, and we have more holocausts, more World Wars, more massacres. Tens of millions of citizens were murdered by THEIR OWN GOVERNMENTS in the previous century. That's not including those of other nations they killed in war. Can we really afford to blindly trust in, and slavishly serve, an anonymous, monolithic, bureaucratic god who demands human sacrifice?
What a bunch of whiners we have become. It's not enough to enjoy your freedom you have to fight for it too.
I agree with idea that conscription is absurd in 21st century. I am 23 old woman from Latvia and even knowing my country history, I am against military action at all. But if it's so needed why can't start with propaganda - I believe if missed only 1/3 part , you can get them by asking for them. There is no need to use people who have already other plans for nearest future, especially if they have started some rational projects... I haven't heard that Lithuania should worry about something like it - but maybe I am wrong, dunno, I am not really into politics XD
why is the internet so full of haters. some react negative on the post and then others attack the ones that reacted negatively..... jesus just let people be. maybe some want to join the army and others dont - fine! theres no reason to call anyone pussies or heartless people. peace out
PUSSIES!!! sadly i can't role the years back, as i would be proud to go to Lithuanias arme
Let me make sure I understand what you're saying. Are we to understand you didn't serve, but are calling them pussies for not wanting to serve?
Load More Replies...I'm from Estonia and all of my friends have gone or will go through military training for 8-11 months.I think there is no point in rebelling against it. WHY CRY ABOUT IT? try to looking at it as a learning and developing experience aka how to live in completely different living conditions and survival and discipline in general. I mean u get to pretty much work out and eat free food and get in great shape for example ...think of it like free gym membership haha. all jokes aside I think this is probably wise considering the recent events in Ukraine and that The Baltics are in the ,,danger zone'' better safe than sorry...
That's exactly what I'm trying to prove those hipsters whole day. They are crying and s**t, WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO MY SON OH NO AFGANISTHAN/SYRIA OH NOEZ. Stupid. Respect to Estonian army.
Load More Replies...u dont know how is army in Lithuania.. it takes of your hopes and dreams and gives gun in your hand... guys are changed after army...
Do obviously don't - have family and friends in/from army - fantastic guys. Nothing wrong woth Lit army you fool
Load More Replies...Conscription may be a frightening idea, but these portraits are powerfully ugly.
14 pussies (interpretation of a word "pussy" is upon your discretion)
Indeed, they are pussies for not doing the research and fleeing to a more civilized country. (Iceland, Greenland, Sweden, you name it)
Load More Replies...Мне аднаму здаецца, што гэтыя хлопчыкі не вартыя называцца мужчынамі. Нармальны мужык ніколі не пакажа сваіх эмоцый на публіцы, калі ён з чым-то не згодны, то ён будзе змагацца за свае прынцыпы і ідэалы. Але мяркуючы па іх асобам яны не змогуць змагацца ні за што ў сваім жыцці: ні за сваю радзіму, ні за сваю будучыню, ні за што б там ні было. Яны не гатовыя нешта вырашаць у сваім жыцці. Брыдка.
Так, можливо, вони дійсно не готові. Але це не визначає їх стать, як і не визначає, хто вони. Вони хочу бути вільними і це є ознакою людини. Якщо чоловік - то є раб, то, вибачте, але у вас у самого логіка раба.
Load More Replies...How embarrassing to cry because one can't handle reality. Philosophies are great but they will not keep you alive
Oh and I forgot- so sorry- the fact you said "Women will do better than those morrrons !" Are you sexist too? DISGUSTING.
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