People On Social Media Point Out That The Bible Was Translated Wrong And Didn’t Say Anything About Homosexuality
History is tricky. It can be one-sided, deceitful, hurtful, it can get rewritten by those in power. It can be easily manipulated. But biblical history is even trickier to track, and it can also be used as a tool for manipulation. The original thoughts and ideas are prone to getting lost in translation, especially when the book is said to have been originally written about 2700 years ago. Apparently, some people believe that this was what happened with the word “homosexuality” in the Bible. Some say it wasn’t added to the Holy Book until 1946 and it’s causing quite a stir among some people. Scroll down to find out more.
More info: Tumblr
People on social media are pointing out the wrong translations in the Bible
Image credits: sunshine-tattoo
Image credits: sunshine-tattoo
These two social media users—one on Facebook and the other on Tumblr—are pointing out how the world “arsenokoitai” in the Bible was translated wrong. According to them, it actually translates to a “child molester,” not homosexual as recent translations indicate. “The way Leviticus 18:22 is truly written,” they explain, is: “Man shall not lie with young boys as he does with a woman, for it is an abomination.”
The Tumblr user under the username sunshine-tattoo reveals that they’re Jewish and that the topic is “incredibly important” to them. They go on to say that “Christians know very little about the culture that is found within the stories of the Old Testament.”
They say that homosexuality wasn’t mentioned in the Bible until the 20th century
Image credits: sunshine-tattoo
Image credits: www.tumblr.com
Image credits: sunshine-tattoo
Image credits: sunshine-tattoo
In an interview for Forge Online, Ed Oxford—a graduate of Talbot School of Theology and a researcher in how the Bible has been weaponized against LGBTQ people—went into more detail about the translations of the Bible.
“I wanted to see how other cultures and translations treated the same verses when they were translated during the Reformation 500 years ago. So I started collecting old Bibles in French, German, Irish, Gaelic, Czechoslovakian, Polish… you name it,” Ed explained. “I had a German friend come back to town and I asked if he could help me with some passages in one of my German Bibles from the 1800s. So we went to Leviticus 18:22 and he’s translating it for me word for word. In the English where it says ‘Man shall not lie with man, for it is an abomination,’ the German version says ‘Man shall not lie with young boys as he does with a woman, for it is an abomination.’ I said, ‘What?! Are you sure?’ He said, ‘Yes!’ Then we went to Leviticus 20:13— same thing, ‘Young boys,'” he continued.
Ed goes on to explain how he met up with a friend who’s fluent in Swedish and Norwegian to ask her the same thing: “She’s going through it [the verses] carefully, and then her face comes up, ‘Do you know what this says?!’ and I said, ‘No! That’s why you are here!’ She said, ‘It says boy abusers, boy molesters.’ It turns out that the ancient world condoned and encouraged a system whereby young boys (8-12 years old) were coupled by older men. Ancient Greek documents show us how even parents utilized this abusive system to help their sons advance in society.” He concludes by saying that “for most of history, most translations thought these verses were obviously referring to the pederasty, not homosexuality!”
Here’s what people online thought
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Share on FacebookInteresting, because they only mention the Greek word that was changed. The Old Testament was written in Hebrew. No change is mentioned to the Hebrew text. I know a lot of you are thinking that Christians are hypocrites, and, to be fair, a lot of Christians are. My view is that I love and follow God as best as I can, but it is in no way my place to tell other people how to live their lives. I fully support LGBTQ rights, even though I’m not part of that community. Even if I thought that it was wrong, that’s still not grounds for discrimination against that group.
The Old Testament was written mostly in Hebrew, a few small sections were written in Aramaic. The New Testament was written Greek. There are over 5,000 handwritten copies of the Bible, in its entirety or just sections. They agree 98% of the time.
Load More Replies...Finally! As a nonbinary and pansexual Christian, I've been saying this since I first found out about it. Like, jeez. Calm down, Dad, so what if I want to wear a suit to prom, you're acting like I told you I was pregnant with you brother's baby.
My partner is non-binary and you could classify me as pan :) good luck to you. People have a hard time with nuance
Load More Replies...There is not one BIBLE text. It was written down many times, over hundreds of years, in different languages and societies. There are several accepted versions. Taking anything word for word is a bit ignorant, don't you think? In the meantime, try to forgive, love your neighbor, and help take care of the poor.
You write that "the way Leviticus 18:22 is truly written is 'Man shall not lie with young boys as he does with a woman, for it is an abomination.' " As a Hebrew speaking person I can categorically say that you either do not understand Hebrew or are willfully misleading. The Hebrew word used in the original text is זכר - "zachar" - which means "male" and NOT "young boys". So the text explicitly states the prohibition a man of lying with a man. It is however true that the word homosexuality is not mentioned in the Hebrew bible. It is only the specific act which is forbidden not the general orientation.
Arsenokoitai literally means "male sexual activity". Whereas child sexual activity would be paidokoitai. This entire post is garbage.
Load More Replies...My friend is Jewish Orthodox and I think she explained the Rules in the Old Testament the best--she said if you think about the time it was written and the conditions the Jewish people were living in at the time (lots and lots of wandering), it really reads more like a manual for how not to die of things like salmonella and venereal diseases.
I'm Jewish Orthodox, and now I'm really curious. Which rules was she referring to? Or was she putting all the rules under an umbrella of 'survival tips'? Because I think a lot of rules aren't for survival, there's also basic moral rules, like 'don't kill' or 'don't steal' etc. So I'm wondering which rules she was thinking of. Would you be able to ask her?
Load More Replies...Actually this person is 100% wrong. He is relying on a old greek translation (and not even the older Greek Translations which do not use the word he does. He is using a medieval Greek one, the older ones are different than his) of the Hebrew וְאֶ֨ת־זָכָ֔ר לֹ֥א תִשְׁכַּ֖ב מִשְׁכְּבֵ֣י אִשָּׁ֑ה תּֽוֹעֵבָ֖ה הִֽוא as you can see, the word used is "Zachor" meaning Male. Just the generic term for the whole Male sex, meaning both Young and Old. To be exact with the translation it real, וְאֶ֨ת־זָכָ֔ר - and with a Male. לֹ֥א תִשְׁכַּ֖ב מִשְׁכְּבֵ֣י אִשָּׁ֑ה- you shall not lie down with (aka polite term for sex) as a woman תּֽוֹעֵבָ֖ה הִֽוא- for it is an abomination
Given all the downvotes (-3 at this point), I guess people do not like facts or actually knowing anything on the topic they are discussing. They would rather be ignorant on the matter rather than an expert explain to them ancient Hebrew. Not surprised given how anti-facts so many of the people here are.
Load More Replies...The+real+question+is+:+Should+we+continue+to+live+like+we+did+2000+years+ago,+or+earlier?+Women+don't+have+a+nice+role+neither+in+the+Bible,+the+Torah+or+the+Koran.+Should+we+also+use+this+as+a+reason+for+discriminiation,+just+like+the+bible+was+used+to+justify+slavery+of+black+people.+This+literal+interpretation+of+the+bible+has+in+my+opinion+done+more+bad+than+good.
This is sad because I feel like most people that are part of the LGBT community believe that Christians hate them. We believe (or should believe) that all people, men and women, are created equal. Joseph Smith once said, "The worth of every soul is great in the eyes of God.". Every single being is so important to God because we are his children.
I'm not ok with this attempt of "ret-conning" the Bible to make it look like it never said anything objectionable, when it clearly does. First off, the Greek word "ἀρσενοκοίτης" literally means "[one] who beds males", from the word "ἄρσην" (arsên) meaning "male" and "κοίτης" which is the genitive of the word "κοίτη" (koitê), "bed", which also gave, via Latin, the English word "coitus". Not to mention, that the Hebrew version of the texts uses the expression "mishkav zakur", which also directly translates as "lying with a male", no indication of age. So yeah, the Bible is homophobic, because the people who wrote it were. Oh, and it absolutely condones paedophilia, if it's done by a man to a girl - the Targum Yerushalmi comments on Exodus 21:7 that the age from which a girl can be sold by their fathers into sexual slavery is "twelve and a day" years old.
12 years and 1 day would be 13 years of age by their reckoning. Many cultures (not my culture) consider 13 adulthood. This comment will disappear soon because BP readers tend to downvote hard facts which they're not comfortable with.
Load More Replies...As a Christian, I hate when people try to use religion/being a Christian to spread hate. I truly feel Jesus would not want us hating in such a way. I hate it because I feel like it gives people the wrong impression of what all Christians are.
Real christians don't hate anyone. But it has nothing to do with hate if some christians consider homosexual acts to be sinful. It has nothing to do with hate. Those people who claim to be christians and are hateful towards other people are fake christians.
Load More Replies...The Hebrew of Leviticus 20:13 says a man who lies with a "male". Nothing to do with young boys. Ed Oxford needs to ask for his money back, and Bored Panda needs to fact-check before spreading disinformation.
We know from grade school-playing 'telephone'-that passing a sentence , one to another, to another is a great way to change it's wording drastically. But bible stories, passed down for generations orally before being set in print, now THOSE we can believe in! Now let's go kill someone for god.
And anyway, homophobes who claim that the bible hates LGBTQIA+ people are reading into it too much even if it were the intended meaning. It's like saying that the bible says vegans are unnatural because if they were normal the ideal place wouldn't be a 'land of milk and honey'. EVERYONE IS VALID AND AWESOME, EXCEPT FOR YOU HOMOPHOBES.
Any child that knows Hebrew can see that the verse says nothing, nor implies anything about age or ‘young boy’. It simply says, “And with a man, you (m) shall not lie (have sexual intercourse) as one lies with a woman...” How can you believe in a book that is a translation of a translation with no one to to teach you what God actually expressed, in His actual words? I’m not referring to the NT. Greek doesn’t even have any connection to the original and yet people act as if it was equal to the original Hebrew.
Brent, how did God actually expressed anything in "His actual words"???? How many languages does God "speak'?? How do we know that God is He and not She, or just some kind of power - Universe, cosmic power? Human beings are only species which is capable to create fiction and believe it too. Human beings are also very arrogant species ........ to its own demise.
Load More Replies...So, pedophilia was replaced, through a falsified translation in 1946, into homosexuality. Well, that’s ONE way to justify grown—-and in many cases, elderly—-men marrying, or just lusting after, 12 year old girls. Sure, no agenda there /s. Way to go Christian men, you f*****g pervs.
All abrahamic religions are anti-gay, so it's no surprise that christianity also is and any attempt to justify homosexuality with the bible is a fraud. In the quran it is specified that all gay people should be executed. 2000 years ago, child molestation wasn't a thing, it was called sex. I have nothing against homosexuality, but using christianity to to justify it is poor taste.
Bigots need a manual and they found one in the bible. Only problem is that like all manuals, no one really reads them.
I really hope that it was actually pedophilia instead of homosexuality that was condemned in the Bible.
Leviticus 18:22 is written EXACTLY as follows: "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind; it is abomination". It does NOT mention young boys... it means EXACTLY what it says. That said, I am not judging anyone, I'm just stating that the author of the article is wrong. Let me remind you that the bible also states in Matthew 7: "Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgement ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again."
The Bible WAS badly translated. First from Aramaic to Greek, then from Greek to other languages. So that for starters. For example, "Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven" should read "Blessed are the poor for the sake of the spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven." Different story altogether. The translations are full of that stuff and we've had it pushed down our throats as the eternal truth.
The religious scriptures were written by people and translated by people, so what did you expected?
Load More Replies...This is such a lie.First of all Christians are not homophobic,those that are, are not good christians.The Bible states that we love our neighbour (everybody) as we love ourself,regardless of what they have done and that we forgive and bless our enemies. A Bored Panda article evens proves this (https://www.boredpanda.com/funny-church-signs-twitter/?utm_source=bing&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=organic).And Sodom and Gomorah was not destroyed because of your reason.In its story the men of Sodom and Gomorah wished to have sex with the angels and those angels were not children.They were men.Definitely men.Even the guys of Sodom and Gomorah said so. Sodom and Gomorah was reputed for sexual immorality namely homosexual behaviour. God decrees homosexuality as an aberration of the natural sexual act between a man and a woman. Indulging in sexual immorailty of any kind (including adultery, paedophilia etc.) is sin which separates us from God. But that is why Jesus came to die for us....
Here we go again: "God decrees' homosexuality, veganism, and preservation of the environment is a hoax ..... in short, everything what you do not agree with is what God doesn't permit, right Not True??? But it is true. If what people do is not causing harm to anybody else, and is actually creating common good, is what would divine power - God of goodness wanted, wouldn't He? On what side you religious folks are?
Load More Replies...Total propaganda from people who know nothing about the facts of the Biblical text or ancient history. This is all Bernays and Alinsky tactics on the eve of an election. Political subterfuge using mass media is typical of conquering domestic enemies. This is a political propaganda piece, make no mistake about it.
1. Leviticus would have been originally written in Hebrew, not Greek. so arsenokotai does not even appear there. NOR does it appear in the Greek translation of the Old Testament, the Septuagint. rather, the word arsenos is there, which simply means a male--child or adult. 2. The Hebrew word that DOES appear, zakar, means a male of any age or species. 3. the Greek word arsenokoitai, actually means "a sodomite--an abuser of one's self with mankind. to defile one's self with mankind. the word means one who lies with a male as with a female; he is a sodomite, a homosexual." (Strong's Greek dictionary) 4. the word arsenokoitai does appear in 1 Corinthians 6:9, and 1 Timothy 1:10. 5. ALL of this information is available in Bible Dictionaries and apps for Bible study. People, all I am asking is that you simply do your own research instead of accepting everything you read online blindly. 6. someone in this article claims to be Jewish and says that Leviticus is when the Greeks were coming
Ever played the game telephone as a kid. You know, one person starts with a word, then whispers it to the next person and so on around a room. By the end you have nothing that so much as resembles the original word(s). The bible is like that. It was written by scholars who got a lot of the information through word of mouth, then those old languages were translated to more modern languages by men who are fallible and some who had their own agendas.
Well done you! When you don't like what it says, by all means, change it. SMH
The people on social media who pointed this out are mistaken. First, Leviticus 18:22 does not say a word about child molestation; it is about male, homosexual sex. The word arsenokoitai does not occur in the Greek translation of the OT, though the two words that make up the word (it's a compound word) do occur in that order in Leviticus 20:13. Paul uses the word twice in the NT. The Bible, taken as a whole, forbids same-sex sexual activity. The Bible, taken as a whole, never permits Christians to hate LGB people nor excuses them from not loving them. The Bible prohibits many things! Why Christians believe that they must love other people who do not obey those many things but not the people who do not obey the Bible's sexual norms is beyond me.
Always translate from the original text when possible. Choose Aramaic/Hebrew when you can. That way you get the closest to the truth as you can. Yes people in the past have made accidently wrong translations. But does that mean that being gay is okay according to the documentation? No. Read the Hebrew translations. And just because a Christian disagrees with the way another person lives, and voices their opinion, that doesn't mean that they hate you. If you you love someone you'll tell them the hard truth that you believe in. There is a line to cross of course when it comes to how you use your language, but it's important to keep an open mind. Christians, and LGBTQ's are both children of God, and he loves them both, but you must read the Bible in context to understand it fully. I would highly suggest the teachings of 119 Ministry if you wish to learn and understand true Christianity. They look at the scripture, translated from Hebrew.
When I was a kid I went to both, Christian Protestant and Catholic masses, and the way God and Jesus love humanity was explained to me makes me impossible to imagine Jesus rejecting a person because of its sexual orientation...
Why do you assume that God and Jesus love ONLY humanity?
Load More Replies...This!!!! Everything about this post!! As someone who came from a multli-demoninational / multi-faith family.... i have been having this debate with all of the family since I got 7 different "bibles" for my 10th birthday - and I noticed the glaring differences in the "same" parts.
That's because people believe what they want to believe.
Load More Replies...A**e-no-koitai seems pretty clear to me. No coitus in the a**e.
the whole bible is man-made and has nothing to do with god, but ok.
I haven't heard this either, and I belong to a church where the pastors (with a few exceptions) aren't hired unless they have theology degrees. Those programs involve studying the original Greek and Hebrew. A lot of pastors will put an explanation of this Hebrew phrase or that Greek word in their sermons. So it's possible that's the original Greek word, but what's the word in Hebrew, I wonder? And the thing about David being gay? Oh, please. That commentator needs to explain the whole Bathsheba affair then. David had her husband killed so no one would find out she'd cheated. He's Jewish and he's ignoring that? I think his bias is showing.
Most Christians, do not even understand the concept of asking for forgiveness. So, every Friday and Saturday, they go on wild drinking and sex fueled parties etc., and then every Sunday, go and ask for forgiveness. Do they think God just forgets that stuff? I don’t think so... and they truly only believe that being saved, means a dunk in the pool of salvation. I got over that notion, and now, keep my own counsel with God, and understand things much better, since then!
The people you described don't seem like real christians to me. There is no real christianity without repentance.
Load More Replies...I've studied this before, and while I can confirm that Jesus did indeed care about every one of us in every form, He did it to bring God glory, and God instructed Him, and us, to love our neighbor as we do ourselves (Lev. 19:18, Mk. 12:31.). However, homosexuality is not part of God's Will, and it goes all the way back to Genesis, the beginning of creation. God created and decreed them to be male and female (Gen. 5:2). Meaning, once you are born, God decreed you to be male or female. Christianity isn't about self-identification (though we shouldn't throw our personalities away), since you are already identified with Christ (2 Cor. 5:17). All in all, it's not about how the word "homosexuality" was used, it's what God decreed from the beginning. Once again, I can confirm that Jesus loves all of us in every shape and form, including the LGBTQ+ community, but He has God's ideology. In no part will Jesus have an ounce of hatred against us, it's: if God decreed male and female, then Jesus will agree male and female as well.
Old Testament too, sodom and gomara the men in the town wanted to have sex with the angels. they were sodomites..what the call today even, ''sodomy
My full support to the LGBT+ community ❤️ But this hypothesis is wrong. "Arsen" means "male" in Greek, and the etymology of the word is quite clear.
"THOU SHALT NOT LIE (Hebrew: aky (shaw-kab') to lie down (for rest, sexual connection, ravish, etc.); ) WITH MANKIND (Hebrew: xkf (zaw-kawr') a male (of man or animals, as being the most noteworthy sex), male (sex), mankind), AS WITH (Hebrew: akyn (mish-kawb') sleep; by euphemism, carnal intercourse; lying down for sexual intercourse) WOMANKIND (Hebrew: ish-shaw': feminine, female as opposed to male): IT IS ABOMINATION (Hebrew: darez (to-ay-baw') something disgusting (morally), i.e. (as noun) an abhorrence)". Straight up. #Truth.
Not being one to believe everything I read without checking first I have found that, unsurprisingly, not everyone agrees with this translation and they point out that there is evidence of context in the bible passages themselves. I would have like to believe that the bible WAS in fact quite progressive but my personal experience with religious types is that they are FAR from progressive and inclusive, they use their 'religion' as a weapon..
Thank you for sharing this. I hope it goes viral and beyond. I’m so tired of people automatically shaming and damning people for their sexual orientation.
Funny, cause the text I found says zakar (male). That being said.; Who hasnt said 'fool' or 'idiot' to somebody some time? "But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, 'Raca,' is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell."
No such thing as hellfire. Or god for that matter.
Load More Replies...my personal view on it is this: I've left the church largely because of the hatred and filth surrounding this and other issues, when the truth is, the knowledge of what is and is not sinful is something that is supposedly innate, instinctual knowledge to each of us. And the reality is, our job is not to decry what is or not sinful. it is to love. without reservation, without hesitation, and without condition. we can argue circles around whether or not a specific behavior is sinful or not, but ultimately, it doesn't matter, because we're all f'ing sinners, and we have all screwed up, and none of us deserved god's grace, which was given to... everybody, freely. Moreover, that knowledge is given to everyone. So we all have equal authority in this matter, anyhow. if somebody truly believes something is not a sin... accept that they disagree and move on. No need to argue with them. (that said, I would like to note that in romans 1:24-27, it's pretty obvious Paul considers it a sin.)
(just a note on the other note. Most of Paul's letter to the Romans is, in fact an indictment of the division between the 'gentile' and the 'jew'- that is, the non-Jewish-Christians and the Jewish-Christians- and bringing an end to the rift. early on, Paul does describe homosexual behavior as 'being given over to shameful lusts', and 'unnantural sexual relations' and 'degrading their bodies with one another'- specifically their wives with other women, and the men with other men, again that's in 1:24-27. **BUT** it's important to note, again, that in the context of the entire letter, the argument goes, 1) we've all sinned, 2) we all knew better 3) god loved anyway, 4) enough that Jesus came to be a sacrifice so that 5) our sins could be forgiven through 6) god's grace, and therefore 7) it is our faith in that act which redeems us all. the flavor of one's sin doesn't matter. )
Load More Replies..." “Child Marriage” is currently legal in 46 states (only Delaware, New Jersey, Minnesota and Pennsylvania have set the minimum age at 18 and eliminated all exceptions), and 20 U.S. states do not require any minimum age for marriage, with parental or judicial waiver. Approximately 248,000 children were married in the U.S. between 2000 and 2010. The vast majority were girls wed to adult men, many much older." https://www.equalitynow.org/learn_more_child_marriage_us
Load More Replies...That's not true. Multiple biblical figures have multiple wives and on at least one occasion incest is seen as a necessary between Lot and his daughters
Load More Replies...This is how they describe themselves: "True Freedom Trust (TFT) is a UK-based teaching and pastoral support ministry that holds to the orthodox biblical view of sex, gender and relationships." I myself have no problems with the LGBT+community and I am also not religious BUT I do have a problem with anyone who claims to know that what is best for their fellow humans today is what the stories of a small populace in the Middle East 2-3.000 years ago taught back then. Weird.
Load More Replies...They are pointing out that a lot of people use Christianity as an excuse to protest against the LGBTQ+ community, even though their claims are false.
Load More Replies...I mean no offense, but none of those statements speak for your ability to think for yourself. Plus, you might dive a little deeper into Deuteronomy. A lot of useless rules to obey.
Load More Replies...There is no "gay agenda" unless you consider wanting equal human rights and to not be murdered based on sexual orientation "an agenda". Which in that case, women and other minorities also have "an agenda
Load More Replies...Interesting, because they only mention the Greek word that was changed. The Old Testament was written in Hebrew. No change is mentioned to the Hebrew text. I know a lot of you are thinking that Christians are hypocrites, and, to be fair, a lot of Christians are. My view is that I love and follow God as best as I can, but it is in no way my place to tell other people how to live their lives. I fully support LGBTQ rights, even though I’m not part of that community. Even if I thought that it was wrong, that’s still not grounds for discrimination against that group.
The Old Testament was written mostly in Hebrew, a few small sections were written in Aramaic. The New Testament was written Greek. There are over 5,000 handwritten copies of the Bible, in its entirety or just sections. They agree 98% of the time.
Load More Replies...Finally! As a nonbinary and pansexual Christian, I've been saying this since I first found out about it. Like, jeez. Calm down, Dad, so what if I want to wear a suit to prom, you're acting like I told you I was pregnant with you brother's baby.
My partner is non-binary and you could classify me as pan :) good luck to you. People have a hard time with nuance
Load More Replies...There is not one BIBLE text. It was written down many times, over hundreds of years, in different languages and societies. There are several accepted versions. Taking anything word for word is a bit ignorant, don't you think? In the meantime, try to forgive, love your neighbor, and help take care of the poor.
You write that "the way Leviticus 18:22 is truly written is 'Man shall not lie with young boys as he does with a woman, for it is an abomination.' " As a Hebrew speaking person I can categorically say that you either do not understand Hebrew or are willfully misleading. The Hebrew word used in the original text is זכר - "zachar" - which means "male" and NOT "young boys". So the text explicitly states the prohibition a man of lying with a man. It is however true that the word homosexuality is not mentioned in the Hebrew bible. It is only the specific act which is forbidden not the general orientation.
Arsenokoitai literally means "male sexual activity". Whereas child sexual activity would be paidokoitai. This entire post is garbage.
Load More Replies...My friend is Jewish Orthodox and I think she explained the Rules in the Old Testament the best--she said if you think about the time it was written and the conditions the Jewish people were living in at the time (lots and lots of wandering), it really reads more like a manual for how not to die of things like salmonella and venereal diseases.
I'm Jewish Orthodox, and now I'm really curious. Which rules was she referring to? Or was she putting all the rules under an umbrella of 'survival tips'? Because I think a lot of rules aren't for survival, there's also basic moral rules, like 'don't kill' or 'don't steal' etc. So I'm wondering which rules she was thinking of. Would you be able to ask her?
Load More Replies...Actually this person is 100% wrong. He is relying on a old greek translation (and not even the older Greek Translations which do not use the word he does. He is using a medieval Greek one, the older ones are different than his) of the Hebrew וְאֶ֨ת־זָכָ֔ר לֹ֥א תִשְׁכַּ֖ב מִשְׁכְּבֵ֣י אִשָּׁ֑ה תּֽוֹעֵבָ֖ה הִֽוא as you can see, the word used is "Zachor" meaning Male. Just the generic term for the whole Male sex, meaning both Young and Old. To be exact with the translation it real, וְאֶ֨ת־זָכָ֔ר - and with a Male. לֹ֥א תִשְׁכַּ֖ב מִשְׁכְּבֵ֣י אִשָּׁ֑ה- you shall not lie down with (aka polite term for sex) as a woman תּֽוֹעֵבָ֖ה הִֽוא- for it is an abomination
Given all the downvotes (-3 at this point), I guess people do not like facts or actually knowing anything on the topic they are discussing. They would rather be ignorant on the matter rather than an expert explain to them ancient Hebrew. Not surprised given how anti-facts so many of the people here are.
Load More Replies...The+real+question+is+:+Should+we+continue+to+live+like+we+did+2000+years+ago,+or+earlier?+Women+don't+have+a+nice+role+neither+in+the+Bible,+the+Torah+or+the+Koran.+Should+we+also+use+this+as+a+reason+for+discriminiation,+just+like+the+bible+was+used+to+justify+slavery+of+black+people.+This+literal+interpretation+of+the+bible+has+in+my+opinion+done+more+bad+than+good.
This is sad because I feel like most people that are part of the LGBT community believe that Christians hate them. We believe (or should believe) that all people, men and women, are created equal. Joseph Smith once said, "The worth of every soul is great in the eyes of God.". Every single being is so important to God because we are his children.
I'm not ok with this attempt of "ret-conning" the Bible to make it look like it never said anything objectionable, when it clearly does. First off, the Greek word "ἀρσενοκοίτης" literally means "[one] who beds males", from the word "ἄρσην" (arsên) meaning "male" and "κοίτης" which is the genitive of the word "κοίτη" (koitê), "bed", which also gave, via Latin, the English word "coitus". Not to mention, that the Hebrew version of the texts uses the expression "mishkav zakur", which also directly translates as "lying with a male", no indication of age. So yeah, the Bible is homophobic, because the people who wrote it were. Oh, and it absolutely condones paedophilia, if it's done by a man to a girl - the Targum Yerushalmi comments on Exodus 21:7 that the age from which a girl can be sold by their fathers into sexual slavery is "twelve and a day" years old.
12 years and 1 day would be 13 years of age by their reckoning. Many cultures (not my culture) consider 13 adulthood. This comment will disappear soon because BP readers tend to downvote hard facts which they're not comfortable with.
Load More Replies...As a Christian, I hate when people try to use religion/being a Christian to spread hate. I truly feel Jesus would not want us hating in such a way. I hate it because I feel like it gives people the wrong impression of what all Christians are.
Real christians don't hate anyone. But it has nothing to do with hate if some christians consider homosexual acts to be sinful. It has nothing to do with hate. Those people who claim to be christians and are hateful towards other people are fake christians.
Load More Replies...The Hebrew of Leviticus 20:13 says a man who lies with a "male". Nothing to do with young boys. Ed Oxford needs to ask for his money back, and Bored Panda needs to fact-check before spreading disinformation.
We know from grade school-playing 'telephone'-that passing a sentence , one to another, to another is a great way to change it's wording drastically. But bible stories, passed down for generations orally before being set in print, now THOSE we can believe in! Now let's go kill someone for god.
And anyway, homophobes who claim that the bible hates LGBTQIA+ people are reading into it too much even if it were the intended meaning. It's like saying that the bible says vegans are unnatural because if they were normal the ideal place wouldn't be a 'land of milk and honey'. EVERYONE IS VALID AND AWESOME, EXCEPT FOR YOU HOMOPHOBES.
Any child that knows Hebrew can see that the verse says nothing, nor implies anything about age or ‘young boy’. It simply says, “And with a man, you (m) shall not lie (have sexual intercourse) as one lies with a woman...” How can you believe in a book that is a translation of a translation with no one to to teach you what God actually expressed, in His actual words? I’m not referring to the NT. Greek doesn’t even have any connection to the original and yet people act as if it was equal to the original Hebrew.
Brent, how did God actually expressed anything in "His actual words"???? How many languages does God "speak'?? How do we know that God is He and not She, or just some kind of power - Universe, cosmic power? Human beings are only species which is capable to create fiction and believe it too. Human beings are also very arrogant species ........ to its own demise.
Load More Replies...So, pedophilia was replaced, through a falsified translation in 1946, into homosexuality. Well, that’s ONE way to justify grown—-and in many cases, elderly—-men marrying, or just lusting after, 12 year old girls. Sure, no agenda there /s. Way to go Christian men, you f*****g pervs.
All abrahamic religions are anti-gay, so it's no surprise that christianity also is and any attempt to justify homosexuality with the bible is a fraud. In the quran it is specified that all gay people should be executed. 2000 years ago, child molestation wasn't a thing, it was called sex. I have nothing against homosexuality, but using christianity to to justify it is poor taste.
Bigots need a manual and they found one in the bible. Only problem is that like all manuals, no one really reads them.
I really hope that it was actually pedophilia instead of homosexuality that was condemned in the Bible.
Leviticus 18:22 is written EXACTLY as follows: "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind; it is abomination". It does NOT mention young boys... it means EXACTLY what it says. That said, I am not judging anyone, I'm just stating that the author of the article is wrong. Let me remind you that the bible also states in Matthew 7: "Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgement ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again."
The Bible WAS badly translated. First from Aramaic to Greek, then from Greek to other languages. So that for starters. For example, "Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven" should read "Blessed are the poor for the sake of the spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven." Different story altogether. The translations are full of that stuff and we've had it pushed down our throats as the eternal truth.
The religious scriptures were written by people and translated by people, so what did you expected?
Load More Replies...This is such a lie.First of all Christians are not homophobic,those that are, are not good christians.The Bible states that we love our neighbour (everybody) as we love ourself,regardless of what they have done and that we forgive and bless our enemies. A Bored Panda article evens proves this (https://www.boredpanda.com/funny-church-signs-twitter/?utm_source=bing&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=organic).And Sodom and Gomorah was not destroyed because of your reason.In its story the men of Sodom and Gomorah wished to have sex with the angels and those angels were not children.They were men.Definitely men.Even the guys of Sodom and Gomorah said so. Sodom and Gomorah was reputed for sexual immorality namely homosexual behaviour. God decrees homosexuality as an aberration of the natural sexual act between a man and a woman. Indulging in sexual immorailty of any kind (including adultery, paedophilia etc.) is sin which separates us from God. But that is why Jesus came to die for us....
Here we go again: "God decrees' homosexuality, veganism, and preservation of the environment is a hoax ..... in short, everything what you do not agree with is what God doesn't permit, right Not True??? But it is true. If what people do is not causing harm to anybody else, and is actually creating common good, is what would divine power - God of goodness wanted, wouldn't He? On what side you religious folks are?
Load More Replies...Total propaganda from people who know nothing about the facts of the Biblical text or ancient history. This is all Bernays and Alinsky tactics on the eve of an election. Political subterfuge using mass media is typical of conquering domestic enemies. This is a political propaganda piece, make no mistake about it.
1. Leviticus would have been originally written in Hebrew, not Greek. so arsenokotai does not even appear there. NOR does it appear in the Greek translation of the Old Testament, the Septuagint. rather, the word arsenos is there, which simply means a male--child or adult. 2. The Hebrew word that DOES appear, zakar, means a male of any age or species. 3. the Greek word arsenokoitai, actually means "a sodomite--an abuser of one's self with mankind. to defile one's self with mankind. the word means one who lies with a male as with a female; he is a sodomite, a homosexual." (Strong's Greek dictionary) 4. the word arsenokoitai does appear in 1 Corinthians 6:9, and 1 Timothy 1:10. 5. ALL of this information is available in Bible Dictionaries and apps for Bible study. People, all I am asking is that you simply do your own research instead of accepting everything you read online blindly. 6. someone in this article claims to be Jewish and says that Leviticus is when the Greeks were coming
Ever played the game telephone as a kid. You know, one person starts with a word, then whispers it to the next person and so on around a room. By the end you have nothing that so much as resembles the original word(s). The bible is like that. It was written by scholars who got a lot of the information through word of mouth, then those old languages were translated to more modern languages by men who are fallible and some who had their own agendas.
Well done you! When you don't like what it says, by all means, change it. SMH
The people on social media who pointed this out are mistaken. First, Leviticus 18:22 does not say a word about child molestation; it is about male, homosexual sex. The word arsenokoitai does not occur in the Greek translation of the OT, though the two words that make up the word (it's a compound word) do occur in that order in Leviticus 20:13. Paul uses the word twice in the NT. The Bible, taken as a whole, forbids same-sex sexual activity. The Bible, taken as a whole, never permits Christians to hate LGB people nor excuses them from not loving them. The Bible prohibits many things! Why Christians believe that they must love other people who do not obey those many things but not the people who do not obey the Bible's sexual norms is beyond me.
Always translate from the original text when possible. Choose Aramaic/Hebrew when you can. That way you get the closest to the truth as you can. Yes people in the past have made accidently wrong translations. But does that mean that being gay is okay according to the documentation? No. Read the Hebrew translations. And just because a Christian disagrees with the way another person lives, and voices their opinion, that doesn't mean that they hate you. If you you love someone you'll tell them the hard truth that you believe in. There is a line to cross of course when it comes to how you use your language, but it's important to keep an open mind. Christians, and LGBTQ's are both children of God, and he loves them both, but you must read the Bible in context to understand it fully. I would highly suggest the teachings of 119 Ministry if you wish to learn and understand true Christianity. They look at the scripture, translated from Hebrew.
When I was a kid I went to both, Christian Protestant and Catholic masses, and the way God and Jesus love humanity was explained to me makes me impossible to imagine Jesus rejecting a person because of its sexual orientation...
Why do you assume that God and Jesus love ONLY humanity?
Load More Replies...This!!!! Everything about this post!! As someone who came from a multli-demoninational / multi-faith family.... i have been having this debate with all of the family since I got 7 different "bibles" for my 10th birthday - and I noticed the glaring differences in the "same" parts.
That's because people believe what they want to believe.
Load More Replies...A**e-no-koitai seems pretty clear to me. No coitus in the a**e.
the whole bible is man-made and has nothing to do with god, but ok.
I haven't heard this either, and I belong to a church where the pastors (with a few exceptions) aren't hired unless they have theology degrees. Those programs involve studying the original Greek and Hebrew. A lot of pastors will put an explanation of this Hebrew phrase or that Greek word in their sermons. So it's possible that's the original Greek word, but what's the word in Hebrew, I wonder? And the thing about David being gay? Oh, please. That commentator needs to explain the whole Bathsheba affair then. David had her husband killed so no one would find out she'd cheated. He's Jewish and he's ignoring that? I think his bias is showing.
Most Christians, do not even understand the concept of asking for forgiveness. So, every Friday and Saturday, they go on wild drinking and sex fueled parties etc., and then every Sunday, go and ask for forgiveness. Do they think God just forgets that stuff? I don’t think so... and they truly only believe that being saved, means a dunk in the pool of salvation. I got over that notion, and now, keep my own counsel with God, and understand things much better, since then!
The people you described don't seem like real christians to me. There is no real christianity without repentance.
Load More Replies...I've studied this before, and while I can confirm that Jesus did indeed care about every one of us in every form, He did it to bring God glory, and God instructed Him, and us, to love our neighbor as we do ourselves (Lev. 19:18, Mk. 12:31.). However, homosexuality is not part of God's Will, and it goes all the way back to Genesis, the beginning of creation. God created and decreed them to be male and female (Gen. 5:2). Meaning, once you are born, God decreed you to be male or female. Christianity isn't about self-identification (though we shouldn't throw our personalities away), since you are already identified with Christ (2 Cor. 5:17). All in all, it's not about how the word "homosexuality" was used, it's what God decreed from the beginning. Once again, I can confirm that Jesus loves all of us in every shape and form, including the LGBTQ+ community, but He has God's ideology. In no part will Jesus have an ounce of hatred against us, it's: if God decreed male and female, then Jesus will agree male and female as well.
Old Testament too, sodom and gomara the men in the town wanted to have sex with the angels. they were sodomites..what the call today even, ''sodomy
My full support to the LGBT+ community ❤️ But this hypothesis is wrong. "Arsen" means "male" in Greek, and the etymology of the word is quite clear.
"THOU SHALT NOT LIE (Hebrew: aky (shaw-kab') to lie down (for rest, sexual connection, ravish, etc.); ) WITH MANKIND (Hebrew: xkf (zaw-kawr') a male (of man or animals, as being the most noteworthy sex), male (sex), mankind), AS WITH (Hebrew: akyn (mish-kawb') sleep; by euphemism, carnal intercourse; lying down for sexual intercourse) WOMANKIND (Hebrew: ish-shaw': feminine, female as opposed to male): IT IS ABOMINATION (Hebrew: darez (to-ay-baw') something disgusting (morally), i.e. (as noun) an abhorrence)". Straight up. #Truth.
Not being one to believe everything I read without checking first I have found that, unsurprisingly, not everyone agrees with this translation and they point out that there is evidence of context in the bible passages themselves. I would have like to believe that the bible WAS in fact quite progressive but my personal experience with religious types is that they are FAR from progressive and inclusive, they use their 'religion' as a weapon..
Thank you for sharing this. I hope it goes viral and beyond. I’m so tired of people automatically shaming and damning people for their sexual orientation.
Funny, cause the text I found says zakar (male). That being said.; Who hasnt said 'fool' or 'idiot' to somebody some time? "But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, 'Raca,' is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell."
No such thing as hellfire. Or god for that matter.
Load More Replies...my personal view on it is this: I've left the church largely because of the hatred and filth surrounding this and other issues, when the truth is, the knowledge of what is and is not sinful is something that is supposedly innate, instinctual knowledge to each of us. And the reality is, our job is not to decry what is or not sinful. it is to love. without reservation, without hesitation, and without condition. we can argue circles around whether or not a specific behavior is sinful or not, but ultimately, it doesn't matter, because we're all f'ing sinners, and we have all screwed up, and none of us deserved god's grace, which was given to... everybody, freely. Moreover, that knowledge is given to everyone. So we all have equal authority in this matter, anyhow. if somebody truly believes something is not a sin... accept that they disagree and move on. No need to argue with them. (that said, I would like to note that in romans 1:24-27, it's pretty obvious Paul considers it a sin.)
(just a note on the other note. Most of Paul's letter to the Romans is, in fact an indictment of the division between the 'gentile' and the 'jew'- that is, the non-Jewish-Christians and the Jewish-Christians- and bringing an end to the rift. early on, Paul does describe homosexual behavior as 'being given over to shameful lusts', and 'unnantural sexual relations' and 'degrading their bodies with one another'- specifically their wives with other women, and the men with other men, again that's in 1:24-27. **BUT** it's important to note, again, that in the context of the entire letter, the argument goes, 1) we've all sinned, 2) we all knew better 3) god loved anyway, 4) enough that Jesus came to be a sacrifice so that 5) our sins could be forgiven through 6) god's grace, and therefore 7) it is our faith in that act which redeems us all. the flavor of one's sin doesn't matter. )
Load More Replies..." “Child Marriage” is currently legal in 46 states (only Delaware, New Jersey, Minnesota and Pennsylvania have set the minimum age at 18 and eliminated all exceptions), and 20 U.S. states do not require any minimum age for marriage, with parental or judicial waiver. Approximately 248,000 children were married in the U.S. between 2000 and 2010. The vast majority were girls wed to adult men, many much older." https://www.equalitynow.org/learn_more_child_marriage_us
Load More Replies...That's not true. Multiple biblical figures have multiple wives and on at least one occasion incest is seen as a necessary between Lot and his daughters
Load More Replies...This is how they describe themselves: "True Freedom Trust (TFT) is a UK-based teaching and pastoral support ministry that holds to the orthodox biblical view of sex, gender and relationships." I myself have no problems with the LGBT+community and I am also not religious BUT I do have a problem with anyone who claims to know that what is best for their fellow humans today is what the stories of a small populace in the Middle East 2-3.000 years ago taught back then. Weird.
Load More Replies...They are pointing out that a lot of people use Christianity as an excuse to protest against the LGBTQ+ community, even though their claims are false.
Load More Replies...I mean no offense, but none of those statements speak for your ability to think for yourself. Plus, you might dive a little deeper into Deuteronomy. A lot of useless rules to obey.
Load More Replies...There is no "gay agenda" unless you consider wanting equal human rights and to not be murdered based on sexual orientation "an agenda". Which in that case, women and other minorities also have "an agenda
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