Childfree Woman Refuses To Give Her Annual Leave Slot To A Coworker With Four Kids, Office Drama Ensues
You don’t need to be friends with your colleagues. You should, however, strive to keep your work relationships professional and civil. You’re spending so much time in each other’s company, why make it a drag? Neither the company nor you benefit from needless conflicts.
But some find it more difficult to manage their emotions than others. Or, as in this case, treat people the same way they would like to be treated themselves.
Yesterday, Reddit user Hallelujah999 submitted a story to the popular ‘Am I the A***ole?’ community, asking people to judge the way she’s treating her coworker.
Both of them wanted the same days for vacation and the policy is that in such a situation, the employees decide it with the luck of a draw. Which they did. Which Hallelujah999 won.
Under normal circumstances, everything should have ended there, but her colleague began pressuring the woman into giving up her days off and even damaging her reputation as a way to retaliate against the ‘injustice.’
Hallelujah999 is thinking about reporting the issue to HR but is still unsure if she’s seeing everything straight.
Two colleagues wanted to go on holiday at the same time but only one could, so they decided to settle it with a lottery
Image credits: Steve W (not the actual photo)
But the loser was left feeling bitter and began to stir up drama at the office
Image credits: Afif Kusuma (not the actual photo)
Image credits: Hallelujah999
Image credits: Hallelujah999
Whatever you think of the ballot system at Hallelujah999’s office, the fact of the matter is that managers should do more to ensure everything runs smoothly when employees want to take time off.
The average American’s workload increases by almost a third when covering for an absent co-worker.
A survey, conducted by OnePoll on behalf of cannabis telemedicine and delivery platform Nugg, asked 2,000 employees to assess the “cover crunch” they’re under when looking after an out-of-office co-worker’s responsibilities.
According to the results, over half of Americans (53 percent) find covering for a co-worker to be a significantly stressful event.
As a result, the quality of work may suffer, with 40 percent of respondents admitting they’ve phoned it in when covering for a co-worker and didn’t care if the job was done well or not.
However, when it comes to vacation scheduling conflicts, some experts think that it’s best to leave everything to the employees themselves.
Certain requests, like non-refundable airfares or those involving children’s schedules, may be difficult to change and situations like the one Hallelujah999 found herself in can put managers in a tough spot when determining whose leave to approve and who to disappoint.
Michael Steinitz, senior executive director at Accountemps, said leaders should promote open communication among the team: “[They should] encourage individuals to be aware of each other’s plans for time off so [everyone] can reach an amicable coverage schedule.”
Some people will have needs that are not flexible, but usually, the team will be able to shuffle things around in a way that works for everyone, Cox said. “I truly believe teams can solve their own problems when it is an expectation,” she said, “so my first step would be to get team members together and ask them to collectively help solve the issue and prioritize the time off schedule.”
“I truly believe teams can solve their own problems when it is an expectation,” Mindi Cox, senior vice president of people and great work at O.C. Tanner, added, “so my first step would be to get team members together and ask them to collectively help solve the issue and prioritize the time off schedule.”
However, since Hallelujah999’s colleague is clearly incapable of having a clam discussion, I think she should not feel guilty at all for involving HR.
People unanimously said the author of the post was being totally reasonable and it’s her coworker who’s out of line
I think the last comment sums it all up. People who do not have children still have family. Not having children doesn't mean you don't have loved ones that you want to spend time with.
Someone should point out to Entitled Mommy that, by her standards, when her kids are grown and have jobs, any time they try to take off to visit her is unimportant if a co-worker has kids.
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My coworker told me why can't i cover their holiday since i am single and don't have kids. Sometime i shove them off politely but lately, i just told them that I was not hired to cover their holidays and weekend.
People like that you just have to be blunt with because they're so self-centered they seem to not understand.
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The ballot system sounds like a fair way to decide these things, but ultimately management needs to do a better job getting enough staff to cover for holidays. And having children does not give you any special entitlement to anything. Most people are understanding that now.
That's what I was thinking, if their job is essential, why can only 2 people ever be missing at a time? That seems terribly fragile for something that's essential
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I once had a supervisor (who has kids) demand I take a last minute trip over night a few hours away by car. I said that I couldn't on that short of notice because I have two dogs who have never spent a night alone. And someone would need to feed them three times that day and let them out and someone would have to stay with them. It was winter and we had just dealt with a big storm and I didn't know anyone I felt safe enough letting into my home when I wasn't there. So he said, "Board them." I said "no." Then he said, "Jesus, sorry I for asking you to do your effing job." I replied, "We wouldn't be having this conversation if I had two kids at home. And regardless, you're asking me with less than 24 hours notice, I have every right to say no." He started yelling at me and I walked out of his office and slammed his door REALLY hard and told him to EFF OFF." Everyone in the office heard the conversation and he was almost fired over it.
Your mistake here was to give a reason. "I can't do it on this short of a notice." End of. If you give a reason they get to have an opinion about it. If you just say you can't, you can't. They can still get upset but as long as you're covered by company rules/workers right etc. it doesn't matter.
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Where I work it's by seniority, but usually it's first come, first served. If someone has the slot you wanted, Oh, well. You should have asked sooner. While it's possible for someone with more years here to bump you out, I've never seen it happen in our department. The ballot seems fair, but management needs to explain that it is final. Anyone caught begging/harassing the winner will be written up.
Which leads to some people logging in on the 1st day of the year and instead of working, book all the 'nice' holidays. And those who are not in, or ill, get no chance. Doesn't sound good either.
Load More Replies... We have the same problem at my work. (I work in the Emergency department.) Those with children think they have the monopoly on having xmas day off and the summer holidays. I'v made myself clear every time that if you wanted the holiday off, work in a damn school where its guaranteed you have that time off with your kids
I am childfree. I hate this kind of shizz. I take care of my mom. Why is taking care of kids considered "a family" but when it's the other way around I'm somehow less of a woman and not head of a family now. I couldn't take care of everyone and she's already here and disabled. I made the only sane and moral choice. And if I want vacation it is every bit as valid as when a breeder does. Call HR.
I absolutely agree with you, people who are child free have every right to vacation time as anyone else, no question. However, if you want those people to offer you the same amount of respect, maybe don't refer to them as breeders.
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Definitely NTA. It wasn't like management just favored you. They had a lottery and you won it. I have kids, and I still think what she's doing is inappropriate.
I 100% agree that just because you decided to have kids does not entitle you to special treatment, and that childless people also have family and friends too. Perhaps they have a terminally ill parent that they love dearly, or a friend they haven't seen in a while, or they just want to go on vacation and decompress because work is stressful without breaks!
I have worked on jobs where I was the only one who didn't have kids. When someone called for a family emergency, I come in or do shift swap. But soon as I request for my vacation or get a weekend off. I'm being told by same coworkers I help out to " I don't see why you need a vacation or should get the holidays off, you don't have a husband or kids so why you need all that time off.""🤬🤬 " I tell them that don't mean I don't have family"
Tell them it's like a bank account - you can't keep asking favours such as shift swaps without making some deposits, like taking their turn to do shift swaps for you.
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The lady with kids needs to suck it up. People who have no kids deserve to have time off too. No one told her to have kids. It's not anyone's problem but Her's. I would not give up my time because I would deserve a vacation as much as anyone else does. I would go to HR and tell them this person is harassing me and bad mouthing me to other people I work with. She needs to get over it, period.
I cannot stand people with kids who use them as an excuse for everything. Just because you bred does not give you more rights than others. Frankly, I think people who do not breed should be given higher status. Don't have four frickin kids.
You can have kids without "having" kids...just fyi
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In the company I'm actually leaving, there is an unwritten rule : people with kids and familly get priority for holidays. There are 3 teams, and at least 1 person needs to be there in each team. So if you are the childfree one you can take your leave after all the others. Yay.... (We are NOT essential. We are nerds who write code)
I'm glad you're leaving. Hopefully the next place will value everyone's time off equally. That's total BS.
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The presence or non-presence of children is irrelevant. Unless the company has a policy that clearly states people with/without children get preference, it shouldn't even be mentioned. Everyone's time is equally valuable to them- no matter what they choose to do with it.
I've been divorced for years. I have no kids, and I'll likely spend my vacation at home, but no, I'm not giving it up for you and your hellspawn.
So...all the people who are commenting about people always having kids by choice, or genetically/biologically, are way off base and it reeks of privilege to choose. That being said, the woman with the kids here was definitely in the wrong. There should be no tiered system as everyone's contributions should be equally valued regardless of situations like that. Bio family and the nuclear structure aren't the only valid family to have, and those with no family to claim are just as entitled to time off from work
Effing thank You. Don't get me wrong I Def am on OPs side but these cf people who are making the issue more about having kids in general are just as bad imo. Yes, the coworker was wrong in this case.. yes I agree she shouldn't have used her used as an excuse. But people like that would have used any valid excuse to get their way anyway. What if her kids were not bio (we are not even 100% if they are or not) is she still unfair? What if it had nothing to do her with human kids? But rather animal per matter or and a family matter they exploit then what??.. obviously the pattern and issue would be that the coworker is exploiting and lying and not to so much that they have kids. Likewise I still know people who have kids who still won't do this as well. So obviously having kids is not the issue.
Load More Replies... Years ago, I had been working for a company for 6-7 years. At the beginning of the year we all map out our time off. I happened to get Christmas week. That June an immature girl started working in my department. She had just graduated high school and gotten married in the first 2 weeks on June . She proceeds to try to take Christmas off and couldn't. Told me that since I was single I didn't deserve to have Christmas off ...after all, she was MARRIED. Lol. She hounded me for a while, but Hell would have frozen over before she got my time slot!!!!
100% agree we need to stop giving special treatment to people with children. Why do childless people have to financially subsidize other people's children? Why should voluntarily having children entitle them to tax discounts? Why do I have to pay their school taxes?
I don't mind the school taxes~~that's all of us investing in our future adults.
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I totally agree. I'm child free too and it's not fair that I have to go out of my way to accommodate parents. I mean, they get the child tax credit and maternity leave.
I agree that it doesn't matter if you have children or not. Everybody wants vacation time and there can be many reasons to pick a specific period. However I think leaving it up to chance who gets the vacation is silly. Just write it down, so next year, the people who did not get their #1 pick, can have first choice. Leaving it up to luck, can make it unfair.
I’m sick of the world expecting child free people to rearrange their lives around people who do.
Kinda makes me wish that the world was flat so I could push people like that off of this planet. I do. I really do
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This is a very American problem because time off is a rare, controlled commodity. In most developed countries, every employee is guaranteed by law a minimum amount of time off. Its also paid for. Meanwhile, time off in the US is an additional taxable benefit that is completely under the control of your employer whether you even get it. Furthermore, they don't have to pay you when you take time off. If you work in a country where labor is valued and protected, essential workers can schedule high demand days literally years in advance. If a new hire loses the lottery and has to work this Christmas, they can schedule the next two off now if they take turns each year. They are expecting to keep their job long enough for the schedule to come to fruition. Its impossible to schedule a bucket list trip 3 years in advance in the US because your company can literally cancel your time off while you're headed to the airport with your only option to either quit or go back to work.
Not only an american problem. I have worked in Spain, the netherlands, germany and belgium. As a biologist my jobs were always understafed and we were barely allowed to pick holidays. Later in belgium as an interim worker (daily contracts) i didnt even had paid holidays or sick leave. And it was all legal. Most migrants here have interim jobs and you dont get anything; they sign your contrat at the end of the day so if you leave early or you are ill you dont get paid.
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Worse are parents that expect single co-workers to DONATE their vacation time to them because they have kids.
I'd be loudly telling everyone in the office the day before that I had to cancel my plans, so would just be lazing around the house.
I was talking to my best friend one time, who has two kids, and I'm childless however my dog is my world. I said something offhand about how I wouldn't know about how it feels to have something come "of me" and she stopped me and said that just because she gave birth doesn't mean that love is comparable. It doesn't mean that I can't love something just as much as she loves her boys or it can't be just as important. It meant the world to me that she said this.
Children sadly are not always a choice. But yes she needs to stop harassing OP
Holy fck. The amount of hateful, supposedly "tolerant and progressive" people on this fn site is disgusting. You claim people shouldn't make fun or ridicule people because of gender identity, lifestyle, and other things, but then you throw around nasty fn words like "breeder" and "crotch goblin". You're the fn problem with the world. Thinking your sh*t don't stink because you don't follow a "normy" life. You're more entitled than the people you b*tch about for supposedly acting entitled. When you sanctimonious, selfish, hateful pieces of sh*t actually live up to the alleged standards you falsely claim to possess, I'll be utterly amazed.
The mom is out of line. However, The job should have ways to put in contact employees for short periods of it's really that impossible to have 2 people put at once. Ridiculous.
I think OP is being reasonable not to mention she won the vacation slot fair and square according to her office's rules. I think if the coworker is going to be petty it would boil down to things out of their control such as plane tickets. Also, who placed the time off in first (down to the day/hour/min if need be)? That's extreme though. Report her to HR if she continues to be passive aggressive. Nobody needs that s**t in the work place.
Spawners\breeders always feel a sense of entitlement when it comes to childFREE people. Hubby and I deal with this issue almost on a daily basis.
I'm a parent, and I would never think of treating anyone differently based on whether they had children or not. Work is work, and I'd never expect anyone to treat me differently because I had a child. That's my responsibility, absolutely no one else's. That said, when you use language like "breeder" and "spawner", while it may make you feel edgy and cool, makes you no better than the parents you claim are somehow inconveniencing you.
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So, someone wins 5 years in a row and gets all the 'good' holidays? Sounds s**t. Why not 3 colleagues -> 1 gets it year 1, 2nd gets it year 2, 3rd gets it year 3 and so on?
yes, leaving it up to chance seems like a dumb choice.
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If you have children, you are not special. No one asked you to lay down and take a hundred for the team and spit out 2, 3, 5 crotch goblins. That was your choice, stop expecting the rest of the world to bow down to you like you have done something uncommon.
The a$$hol€ is a tie between the entitled mom and whoever came up with the lottery system. Report Ms. Sore Loser for harassment (not to mention Covid violations) and go enjoy your vacation.
It's almost as if some people think it's unfair that they 'had' to have kids. 'I work harder because I have kids.' Yeah, I know, that's why I decided not to have kids. 'But people have to have kids, or there won't be people around in future generations.' Yeah there will, because plenty of people don't see it as unfair.
I've worked so many jobs where people with children think I should work all the holidays because I don't have children (I do however have OTHER FAMILY) I've also covered for women on maternity leave, which is fine but I'm doing their job as well as my job and not really getting fairly compensated for it. As someone without children, I can relate as I've always been been exposed this kind of treatment.
having children is a choice. you're not entitled to act like a martyr because you chose to pump out a unit. you're also not allowed to crucify people around you who choose not to have children. turning your office into a hostile work environment because someone doesn't give in to you acting like a toddler because you have kids is kind of a human garbage threshold.
Deciding by luck is a really bad idea.. we just talk it out and our boss has the last word. Next year the "looser" gets a higher priority. I wouldnt even want vacation on Holidays etc... Too much traffic and stress etc
Lottery is the most fair way. It's random. The only other alternatives are have the boss pick. That puts them in a horrible possition or it automatically goes to whoever put their request in first. No matter what Ms Entitled believes Family is not just spouse and kids. People who say "well you don't have kids" piss me off. For all those who cannot have kids. & want them it's a slap in the face and salt in the wound. It's a gross statement to make. Neither my sister or I can have them. Regardless we need to stop telling un-married or CF people their lives & time off are less important than everyone else. You made your choice to get married have kids. Yes it was a choice my life doesn't revolve around your choices unless I choose to help you out. I don't have much family that lived by me so holidays like Thanksgiving I'd volunteer to work for my co-workers bc I wanted to so they could be with their families but if I wanted to take the time off it's my choice to do that also.
Definitely NTA. I am so sick of people playing the child card. You don't know how many times I heard "well you can stay late you don't have any kids you have to pick up from daycare." Like its my fault that I can't have children, not that I didn't want them or didn't try to have them. So their comments just add salt to that open wound. I finally got around to saying "look I didn't knock you up, you made your bed now lie in it."
Well living in Germany, here its like over schoolvacation times parents get priority. They can give up their time if they want to but if a parent and a non parent apply for the same timeframe the parent has to get the time off. There are many weeks a year for non parents to take their time off.
If someone is a non-parent by choice or bc they can't have kids for medical reasons, why is it ok to tell them their family time is unimportant. Say your co-workers spouse is a teacher and has the same time off as your kids why can't they get that vacay time? What if they go on vacay with their family memebers who have kids and thats the only time they can go? It's a bs excuse. Having kids is not a free pass to get whatever you want. You chose to have kids their lives shouldn't stop because of your choices. If they want to work it out with you fine but you are not entitled to dictate someone elses free time bc you have crumbsnatchers
Load More Replies... Report her to HR. Her actions are discrimination. Bluntly she is saying you are a lesser person because you do not have children. If she has not made alternate plans over the last four months that is her issue. As a single woman without children I have had the same issue and have had to report a supervisor to HR for trying to pull my vacation for a parent who claimed her daycare was closed for two weeks (after they talked about a family trip).
Talk to a lawyer. She is harassing you. You were given the vacation slot fair and square. I would also talk to HR but still consult rhe lawyer.
This woman sounds like she probably creates drama and toxicity on other issues too. Poster has a good case for workplace harassment.
Why doesn't the woman just get with a program at her school for summer school then take them on vacation later in the year? Less foot traffic, less of other people's kids to deal with, more opportunities to just have fun, and the kids will feel especially special since they'll be getting time off in during an unusual time. It'll also teach them that sometimes you need to work a bit harder to get what you want
NTA. However i think the ballot system is sh*t, its to damn luck based. I used to work where someone always had to be available, so we all took turns on the major ones and for the rest, try to consider each others wishes. kids or no kids. Also some people was ok with working the holidays = extra money. Some wanted the time off as everyone else.
What a crap system. If you're lucky you get your chosen holidays 5 years in a row, if you're unlucky you don't get any? A ballot system is fine, only if it excludes the people who got their preferred dates the previous year, continuing until everyone has gotten their dates off in turn. All my previous employers did splits. You can have either xmas or newyears (sometimes split between both xmas days, new years eve and new years day) for example, you can have half term or summer break. Half of the people get the one day/week/2 weeks off, the other half get the other half off. Next year it's someone elses turn to pick first. Three ways if it's a large company (edit: on topic, no, people with kids don't get to hog all the "good" days off. It's nice to cover a shift for them if the kid is sick or something, but nope, can't have your cake and eat it too)
Sometimes there is no school and no babysitter mom needs time off but she has to schedule it like everyone else. I had plenty of days there was no school and I had to work. Paid a babysitter we never lived close to family so had to make it work.
This is stupid. It''s hard to dance around collegues and a spouse then you have to add children summer vacation time. Civilized people talk between them. I as a single person am perfectly flexible to push my vacation 2 weeks forward with no problems. Yeah it sucks a bit, but it's not like i am giving my vacation away.
My husband and I are always talking about these people, I have a kid so I should have this. Not how it works. We have a kid and we most definitely do not expect stuff to be handed over because I pushed out a kid and don’t want my kid growing up with the attitude that their owed something when their not.
I remember first round vacation picks when I worked at a casino. Only one person could have a week off at a time during summer and Christmas. I picked Christmas week for my first choice while everyone else that had kids took summer weeks off. Then we went in to choose our second choice I got one of the summer weeks left but they all tried to book Christmas snd was told no. They found out I had it off and bitched because I didn’t have kids and I was greedy. I told them flat out that my mother has breast cancer and we weren’t sure she would make another Christmas so they could shove it you know where. Your crotch goblins aren’t the only family in the world and not my problem. I have kids now too and still before anytime off in the summer will try for Christmas first because there are still things you can do in the summer on days offvv
The lady was NTA in this case. I had an unusual case once when I was in the commercial two-way radio installation and repair, i.e., police, fire, ambulance and hospital equipment. In the middle of a two week call rotation with the other techs that covered the other territories our company was responsible for, one of my wife's parents passed away. My manager told me to take whatever time I needed and I was so appreciative of what he and the other techs did. I was able to repay them later by covering for them when they emergency leave needs.
My company allocated vacation days by seniority which makes sense. Your employer is a weenie by putting the responsibility on the employees in the first place. However, since that's how things are, your coworker is out of luck. I don't care how many kids she managed to spit out, winner takes the spoils.
Many years ago, I worked as a salaried manager at a McDonald's. I worked pretty much every single holiday, as we needed a more senior manager around. It was always, "sorry pal, but you're single, no kids, you know how it is". I didn't think that affected my ability to enjoy Thanksgiving dinner with my family. I was annoyed by this, but I did my job as was expected of me. I also let it be known that if they booked me to work St. Patrick's Day or the day after, don't be surprised when I don't show up.
When you have problem getting children or simething like that .. it is really hurtfull that somebody else doesn't respect your need for time off! That's just one reason to mind your own business... And try to make agreements with holidays - one year to the one, next year the other...
I have a husband and children and one of my children has special needs. That said i never use that as an excuse to manipulate someone into getting something i want or need. Thats unexceptable behavior!! Ppl without children have responsibilities n important matters to deal with as well. I had children a bit later than my age group was having children n it used to infuriate me when they said i had less responsibilities bc i didnt have kids. I still had a full time job n a sick grandmother i was taking care of as well! Lastly i think that rule is a bit unreasonable. I am an essential employee (nurse) when too many ppl are going to be gone at once my employer as well as others uses an agency for replacements. Its the employers responsibility to make sure they have enough staff without causing friction in the workplace. Find another way dont put it on the staff its their time they earned it n they deserve to take their vacation whenever they desire not when is convenient for the employer/e
Sorry if I missed it; are they both asking for the entire month of June off? I know some people from India used to do that to visit family back home because it can take so long to get there and back that practically half of it ends up being travel. Otherwise, if it's just a normal week or two at a time, couldn't they stagger it so they could both take time off? As someone who also doesn't have any kids, I usually don't mind working around others' schedules if they have something specific they want to do. But even for me, if you want to have a get together/take a trip with a large group of family/friends, all with different schedules (as I will this year), trying to find a time that works for everyone is difficult enough. Once you find a time that works and request it off, you certainly don't want to (and shouldn't have to) deal with the pettiness and selfishness of someone else trying to shame you into changing plans just because they think their "real" family is more important.
I have kids and most of my coworkers too. We have similar situations (but we respect the decisions if our job ex. Who called dibs first, or considerate more important situations) first you won the vacation time fare and square, and as for her children...exactly...there her children not yours. If she would have won I trust you would have been, happy for her
I'd ask her point blank, in front of everyone, why your family is less important than hers. She'll develop a speech impediment.
That parent is being a toxic, entitled, ignorant cretin. Get her reported for harassment. If she then gets sacked, she's got all the time she needs.
It sucks, vacation conflicts. But that's why you usually have three or four slots that you have to choose from for the year. So they make sure that they have available associates and everybody gets a date. In this case it was decided by a lottery and the loser has to adjust her date to a different one. When I worked I had a lot more flexibility in my job and my kid's mother did not so I typically change my vacation schedule to match hers whatever she got. And I'm a father and I don't think it's another person's responsibility to give up their vacation for mine.
I had people pull this crap for years. I'd always say that just b/c I haven't given birth, doesn't mean I don't have family I want to see.
I would always volunteer to work holidays, as I was single with no kids and also was used to it from working in a restaurant when younger. Then, I started automatically be signed up for every holiday by my manager and was no longer even being asked, but one Christmas Eve when I had family coming in from out of town, you would have thought I killed someone when I wanted that half day off. Not one of my coworkers cared that I had covered that (half) day for them to be off for years! But, I wasn't in my "childish" manager's clique, so guess who ended up working that shift?!!! I guess I should've been grateful since my manager gave me a $5 Starbucks card for it. (She was a JOKE) Needless to say, I no longer work for that company.
"You want to spend your time with your kids, we'll guess what? My mom has kids too, and she wants to spend HER holiday time with them! So that's what I'm doing!" Maybe they should do a combination lottery and rotation. So if someone hasn't gotten their requested slot in the lottery for the past two or three years, then they are guaranteed to get it the following year (as long as no one else in the same boat requests the same dates.) That way it's a bit more fair, and not just based on luck every single time, because some people are just lucky/unlucky.
I've dealt with this my entire adult life. My last boss got all entitled about the holiday season (I was her assistant manager) because she had grandchildren and I didn't.
I think this system is pitting the coworkers against each other. I mean, OP clearly deserves her slots and the mother has no right to pester her about it, but maybe the workplace could step in and hire some more people/ temporary worker to cover the slot. Anyways, the woman with kids is objectively in a difficult situation. It's obviously not the OP's responsibility, and the mother's behaviour towards her is uncool, but people calling her a "breeder" or speaking about "keeping her legs closed" are really rude and devoid of empathy. Raising a family must be difficult (I'm child-free) and sometimes you may need some good will from others. Ask your own parents.
NTA. As a parent myself, I would never demand someone else to give up their leave. In my country, during school breaks, employees with school kids have priority for leave when school is closed. And people book their vacation appropriately. I have to share mine with a coworker (she takes over my tasks and I hers) with 3 kids and we change who takes which weeks of the school breaks each year. The ballot system is a nice idea though.
why should she give up her vacation just because someone else decided to have children. no one forced them to have this kids so why should we give them special treatment.
We chose vacations by seniority...if slot was filled, the next person just had to pick another...if the senior person ended up changing their vacation, they had to choose a slot not taken, and the next senior person had option to take the slot. .no anger, no selection if you weren't senior...never heard of lottery to decide time off...no wonder there is resentment. As for the bully, you aren't the ah
YOU didn't marry the b*tch, and YOU didn't knock her up 4 times either! Thats ALL ON HER! She has no business asking you for your time! If she wants your time so bad, SELL IT TO HER! Make a profit. I wouldn't take less than $200.00 a day. You don't have any reason to give her anything, except maybe a lawsuit for harassment and mental cruelty.
Everywhere I worked it's all about seniority, if I got hired before you then I got first choice, easy peasy
Christmas is a holiday boxing day is a holiday Easter is a holiday what these people are talking about are their personal vacations, lol I'll never stop cringing at that
I'm a single mom. I missed a LOT of stuff that happened during the daytime ~ track meets, cross country, things like that. There are a few events I do think parents should get a "pass" on ~ graduations, prom (things a parent can't control the date on but are just one day) ~ that a parent should get preferential treatment days off. But there's only 4 or 5 of those in a kid's lifetime. You choose to have kids, you suck it up if your vacation time that you want to take your kid to Someplace Special doesn't line up with the availability for vacation time. Other than truly special occasions, a parent has to suck it up and take the time off she can get without making other coworkers feel guilty.
50 years ago, a lot of employers would fire a woman as soon as she got married, because they expected her to start having kids, which would mean taking extra time off. If a woman was lucky back then, she might get to keep her job until she was actually pregnant. Obviously that's wrong, and we should never go back to those days; but to go in the opposite direction and give preferential treatment because of who they are off the clock would also be unfair. If the mother thinks the process is unfair, then HR is to whom she should complain.
In 1975, not long after I had married, I started working in the advertising department of a major department store in our area; I found out later that I almost wasn't hired because I would presumably start a family, and want to quit. Turns out I did quit, after our daughter was born, but only because, at nine months old, she had dislocated her elbow by climbing on top of, and falling off of, the babysitter's console TV! Childcare was very expensive, hard to find, and I had no family in the area, so we made that choice. Even back then, I worked from home and my husband would pick up and drop off the pages for the newspaper ads, until they found a replacement. My point is, I think back then co-workers treated each other more as friends than it seems people do these days; my husband's co-workers, in a different business, were also like family; there seems to be a lot more tension in the workplace these days. I could be completely wrong; it's just an observation from here, from me! NTA!
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NTA. But I have problems with all of the people saying “go tell HR!” HR is *not* your friend. They work for the best interests of the company. They may or may not take your side. If you trust someone in mgmt, it might be a good idea to let them know what’s going on. But don’t go to HR expecting instant justice.
This toxic s**t just adds to the problem of employers not hiring/promoting women because they expect special treatment
Seems like they should let people choose holiday time by seniority instead of lottery. If someone tries for the same time slot as another employee and loses the draw, all the other surrounding timeslots would already be taken.
Didn't even read it. NTA. Breeders think they should have special treatment. They absolutely should not!
I must be missing something, If I put in for June 8th -15 and it was decided that "Jim" asked for it first. Ok, I regroup and ask for June 23rd - 30th, which is open, not a big deal. If it's because Jim's kids are out of school June -August, so Sept or Oct is better for non-child folks as there's not a conflict with schooling, common sense could prevail. But if one or both is just being difficult, then treat them as the children they behaving to be.
we had an alternating system for major holidays - like Christmas, one year you go the week off leading to Christmas, the next it was the week between Christmas and New Year. It made it fair for all. As a childless person, I didn't want to travel at Spring break when prices were hiked and planes/hotels would be busy with families. Summer was different, we all took our turns.
That lottery system is a heck of a lot fairer than the seniority systems many companies use! It's totally unfair when those that have been with a company the longest always get first dibs.
UK. Worked in an office where two East Europeans felt entitled to go home for Xmas. However, the impact of this meant that other people were denied to spend time with their family.
Depends on the state/country. I grew up in NYS and we started after Labor day and went until the last week of June, taught in VT where we started mid August and ended by Memorial Day and now teach in MA where we start right before Labor Day (last week of August) and end 2nd week of June (plus however many snow days we need to make up).
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She does have a family. That's who she is going to visit. OP deserves and is entitled to vacations as much as the mom is.
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She doesn’t need to explain anything to the co worker. It’s almost like she needs her permission!! That’s very inappropriate and little crazy! The entitled co worker needs to get over herself! Being a parents doesn’t make you more special or deserving. You can’t expect others to accommodate your child or life. Using your child to guilt people is really gross.
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I think the last comment sums it all up. People who do not have children still have family. Not having children doesn't mean you don't have loved ones that you want to spend time with.
Someone should point out to Entitled Mommy that, by her standards, when her kids are grown and have jobs, any time they try to take off to visit her is unimportant if a co-worker has kids.
Load More Replies... My coworker told me why can't i cover their holiday since i am single and don't have kids. Sometime i shove them off politely but lately, i just told them that I was not hired to cover their holidays and weekend.
People like that you just have to be blunt with because they're so self-centered they seem to not understand.
Load More Replies... The ballot system sounds like a fair way to decide these things, but ultimately management needs to do a better job getting enough staff to cover for holidays. And having children does not give you any special entitlement to anything. Most people are understanding that now.
That's what I was thinking, if their job is essential, why can only 2 people ever be missing at a time? That seems terribly fragile for something that's essential
Load More Replies... I once had a supervisor (who has kids) demand I take a last minute trip over night a few hours away by car. I said that I couldn't on that short of notice because I have two dogs who have never spent a night alone. And someone would need to feed them three times that day and let them out and someone would have to stay with them. It was winter and we had just dealt with a big storm and I didn't know anyone I felt safe enough letting into my home when I wasn't there. So he said, "Board them." I said "no." Then he said, "Jesus, sorry I for asking you to do your effing job." I replied, "We wouldn't be having this conversation if I had two kids at home. And regardless, you're asking me with less than 24 hours notice, I have every right to say no." He started yelling at me and I walked out of his office and slammed his door REALLY hard and told him to EFF OFF." Everyone in the office heard the conversation and he was almost fired over it.
Your mistake here was to give a reason. "I can't do it on this short of a notice." End of. If you give a reason they get to have an opinion about it. If you just say you can't, you can't. They can still get upset but as long as you're covered by company rules/workers right etc. it doesn't matter.
Load More Replies... Where I work it's by seniority, but usually it's first come, first served. If someone has the slot you wanted, Oh, well. You should have asked sooner. While it's possible for someone with more years here to bump you out, I've never seen it happen in our department. The ballot seems fair, but management needs to explain that it is final. Anyone caught begging/harassing the winner will be written up.
Which leads to some people logging in on the 1st day of the year and instead of working, book all the 'nice' holidays. And those who are not in, or ill, get no chance. Doesn't sound good either.
Load More Replies... We have the same problem at my work. (I work in the Emergency department.) Those with children think they have the monopoly on having xmas day off and the summer holidays. I'v made myself clear every time that if you wanted the holiday off, work in a damn school where its guaranteed you have that time off with your kids
I am childfree. I hate this kind of shizz. I take care of my mom. Why is taking care of kids considered "a family" but when it's the other way around I'm somehow less of a woman and not head of a family now. I couldn't take care of everyone and she's already here and disabled. I made the only sane and moral choice. And if I want vacation it is every bit as valid as when a breeder does. Call HR.
I absolutely agree with you, people who are child free have every right to vacation time as anyone else, no question. However, if you want those people to offer you the same amount of respect, maybe don't refer to them as breeders.
Load More Replies... Definitely NTA. It wasn't like management just favored you. They had a lottery and you won it. I have kids, and I still think what she's doing is inappropriate.
I 100% agree that just because you decided to have kids does not entitle you to special treatment, and that childless people also have family and friends too. Perhaps they have a terminally ill parent that they love dearly, or a friend they haven't seen in a while, or they just want to go on vacation and decompress because work is stressful without breaks!
I have worked on jobs where I was the only one who didn't have kids. When someone called for a family emergency, I come in or do shift swap. But soon as I request for my vacation or get a weekend off. I'm being told by same coworkers I help out to " I don't see why you need a vacation or should get the holidays off, you don't have a husband or kids so why you need all that time off.""🤬🤬 " I tell them that don't mean I don't have family"
Tell them it's like a bank account - you can't keep asking favours such as shift swaps without making some deposits, like taking their turn to do shift swaps for you.
Load More Replies... The lady with kids needs to suck it up. People who have no kids deserve to have time off too. No one told her to have kids. It's not anyone's problem but Her's. I would not give up my time because I would deserve a vacation as much as anyone else does. I would go to HR and tell them this person is harassing me and bad mouthing me to other people I work with. She needs to get over it, period.
I cannot stand people with kids who use them as an excuse for everything. Just because you bred does not give you more rights than others. Frankly, I think people who do not breed should be given higher status. Don't have four frickin kids.
You can have kids without "having" kids...just fyi
Load More Replies... In the company I'm actually leaving, there is an unwritten rule : people with kids and familly get priority for holidays. There are 3 teams, and at least 1 person needs to be there in each team. So if you are the childfree one you can take your leave after all the others. Yay.... (We are NOT essential. We are nerds who write code)
I'm glad you're leaving. Hopefully the next place will value everyone's time off equally. That's total BS.
Load More Replies... The presence or non-presence of children is irrelevant. Unless the company has a policy that clearly states people with/without children get preference, it shouldn't even be mentioned. Everyone's time is equally valuable to them- no matter what they choose to do with it.
I've been divorced for years. I have no kids, and I'll likely spend my vacation at home, but no, I'm not giving it up for you and your hellspawn.
So...all the people who are commenting about people always having kids by choice, or genetically/biologically, are way off base and it reeks of privilege to choose. That being said, the woman with the kids here was definitely in the wrong. There should be no tiered system as everyone's contributions should be equally valued regardless of situations like that. Bio family and the nuclear structure aren't the only valid family to have, and those with no family to claim are just as entitled to time off from work
Effing thank You. Don't get me wrong I Def am on OPs side but these cf people who are making the issue more about having kids in general are just as bad imo. Yes, the coworker was wrong in this case.. yes I agree she shouldn't have used her used as an excuse. But people like that would have used any valid excuse to get their way anyway. What if her kids were not bio (we are not even 100% if they are or not) is she still unfair? What if it had nothing to do her with human kids? But rather animal per matter or and a family matter they exploit then what??.. obviously the pattern and issue would be that the coworker is exploiting and lying and not to so much that they have kids. Likewise I still know people who have kids who still won't do this as well. So obviously having kids is not the issue.
Load More Replies... Years ago, I had been working for a company for 6-7 years. At the beginning of the year we all map out our time off. I happened to get Christmas week. That June an immature girl started working in my department. She had just graduated high school and gotten married in the first 2 weeks on June . She proceeds to try to take Christmas off and couldn't. Told me that since I was single I didn't deserve to have Christmas off ...after all, she was MARRIED. Lol. She hounded me for a while, but Hell would have frozen over before she got my time slot!!!!
100% agree we need to stop giving special treatment to people with children. Why do childless people have to financially subsidize other people's children? Why should voluntarily having children entitle them to tax discounts? Why do I have to pay their school taxes?
I don't mind the school taxes~~that's all of us investing in our future adults.
Load More Replies... I totally agree. I'm child free too and it's not fair that I have to go out of my way to accommodate parents. I mean, they get the child tax credit and maternity leave.
I agree that it doesn't matter if you have children or not. Everybody wants vacation time and there can be many reasons to pick a specific period. However I think leaving it up to chance who gets the vacation is silly. Just write it down, so next year, the people who did not get their #1 pick, can have first choice. Leaving it up to luck, can make it unfair.
I’m sick of the world expecting child free people to rearrange their lives around people who do.
Kinda makes me wish that the world was flat so I could push people like that off of this planet. I do. I really do
Load More Replies... This is a very American problem because time off is a rare, controlled commodity. In most developed countries, every employee is guaranteed by law a minimum amount of time off. Its also paid for. Meanwhile, time off in the US is an additional taxable benefit that is completely under the control of your employer whether you even get it. Furthermore, they don't have to pay you when you take time off. If you work in a country where labor is valued and protected, essential workers can schedule high demand days literally years in advance. If a new hire loses the lottery and has to work this Christmas, they can schedule the next two off now if they take turns each year. They are expecting to keep their job long enough for the schedule to come to fruition. Its impossible to schedule a bucket list trip 3 years in advance in the US because your company can literally cancel your time off while you're headed to the airport with your only option to either quit or go back to work.
Not only an american problem. I have worked in Spain, the netherlands, germany and belgium. As a biologist my jobs were always understafed and we were barely allowed to pick holidays. Later in belgium as an interim worker (daily contracts) i didnt even had paid holidays or sick leave. And it was all legal. Most migrants here have interim jobs and you dont get anything; they sign your contrat at the end of the day so if you leave early or you are ill you dont get paid.
Load More Replies... Worse are parents that expect single co-workers to DONATE their vacation time to them because they have kids.
I'd be loudly telling everyone in the office the day before that I had to cancel my plans, so would just be lazing around the house.
I was talking to my best friend one time, who has two kids, and I'm childless however my dog is my world. I said something offhand about how I wouldn't know about how it feels to have something come "of me" and she stopped me and said that just because she gave birth doesn't mean that love is comparable. It doesn't mean that I can't love something just as much as she loves her boys or it can't be just as important. It meant the world to me that she said this.
Children sadly are not always a choice. But yes she needs to stop harassing OP
Holy fck. The amount of hateful, supposedly "tolerant and progressive" people on this fn site is disgusting. You claim people shouldn't make fun or ridicule people because of gender identity, lifestyle, and other things, but then you throw around nasty fn words like "breeder" and "crotch goblin". You're the fn problem with the world. Thinking your sh*t don't stink because you don't follow a "normy" life. You're more entitled than the people you b*tch about for supposedly acting entitled. When you sanctimonious, selfish, hateful pieces of sh*t actually live up to the alleged standards you falsely claim to possess, I'll be utterly amazed.
The mom is out of line. However, The job should have ways to put in contact employees for short periods of it's really that impossible to have 2 people put at once. Ridiculous.
I think OP is being reasonable not to mention she won the vacation slot fair and square according to her office's rules. I think if the coworker is going to be petty it would boil down to things out of their control such as plane tickets. Also, who placed the time off in first (down to the day/hour/min if need be)? That's extreme though. Report her to HR if she continues to be passive aggressive. Nobody needs that s**t in the work place.
Spawners\breeders always feel a sense of entitlement when it comes to childFREE people. Hubby and I deal with this issue almost on a daily basis.
I'm a parent, and I would never think of treating anyone differently based on whether they had children or not. Work is work, and I'd never expect anyone to treat me differently because I had a child. That's my responsibility, absolutely no one else's. That said, when you use language like "breeder" and "spawner", while it may make you feel edgy and cool, makes you no better than the parents you claim are somehow inconveniencing you.
Load More Replies... So, someone wins 5 years in a row and gets all the 'good' holidays? Sounds s**t. Why not 3 colleagues -> 1 gets it year 1, 2nd gets it year 2, 3rd gets it year 3 and so on?
yes, leaving it up to chance seems like a dumb choice.
Load More Replies... If you have children, you are not special. No one asked you to lay down and take a hundred for the team and spit out 2, 3, 5 crotch goblins. That was your choice, stop expecting the rest of the world to bow down to you like you have done something uncommon.
The a$$hol€ is a tie between the entitled mom and whoever came up with the lottery system. Report Ms. Sore Loser for harassment (not to mention Covid violations) and go enjoy your vacation.
It's almost as if some people think it's unfair that they 'had' to have kids. 'I work harder because I have kids.' Yeah, I know, that's why I decided not to have kids. 'But people have to have kids, or there won't be people around in future generations.' Yeah there will, because plenty of people don't see it as unfair.
I've worked so many jobs where people with children think I should work all the holidays because I don't have children (I do however have OTHER FAMILY) I've also covered for women on maternity leave, which is fine but I'm doing their job as well as my job and not really getting fairly compensated for it. As someone without children, I can relate as I've always been been exposed this kind of treatment.
having children is a choice. you're not entitled to act like a martyr because you chose to pump out a unit. you're also not allowed to crucify people around you who choose not to have children. turning your office into a hostile work environment because someone doesn't give in to you acting like a toddler because you have kids is kind of a human garbage threshold.
Deciding by luck is a really bad idea.. we just talk it out and our boss has the last word. Next year the "looser" gets a higher priority. I wouldnt even want vacation on Holidays etc... Too much traffic and stress etc
Lottery is the most fair way. It's random. The only other alternatives are have the boss pick. That puts them in a horrible possition or it automatically goes to whoever put their request in first. No matter what Ms Entitled believes Family is not just spouse and kids. People who say "well you don't have kids" piss me off. For all those who cannot have kids. & want them it's a slap in the face and salt in the wound. It's a gross statement to make. Neither my sister or I can have them. Regardless we need to stop telling un-married or CF people their lives & time off are less important than everyone else. You made your choice to get married have kids. Yes it was a choice my life doesn't revolve around your choices unless I choose to help you out. I don't have much family that lived by me so holidays like Thanksgiving I'd volunteer to work for my co-workers bc I wanted to so they could be with their families but if I wanted to take the time off it's my choice to do that also.
Definitely NTA. I am so sick of people playing the child card. You don't know how many times I heard "well you can stay late you don't have any kids you have to pick up from daycare." Like its my fault that I can't have children, not that I didn't want them or didn't try to have them. So their comments just add salt to that open wound. I finally got around to saying "look I didn't knock you up, you made your bed now lie in it."
Well living in Germany, here its like over schoolvacation times parents get priority. They can give up their time if they want to but if a parent and a non parent apply for the same timeframe the parent has to get the time off. There are many weeks a year for non parents to take their time off.
If someone is a non-parent by choice or bc they can't have kids for medical reasons, why is it ok to tell them their family time is unimportant. Say your co-workers spouse is a teacher and has the same time off as your kids why can't they get that vacay time? What if they go on vacay with their family memebers who have kids and thats the only time they can go? It's a bs excuse. Having kids is not a free pass to get whatever you want. You chose to have kids their lives shouldn't stop because of your choices. If they want to work it out with you fine but you are not entitled to dictate someone elses free time bc you have crumbsnatchers
Load More Replies... Report her to HR. Her actions are discrimination. Bluntly she is saying you are a lesser person because you do not have children. If she has not made alternate plans over the last four months that is her issue. As a single woman without children I have had the same issue and have had to report a supervisor to HR for trying to pull my vacation for a parent who claimed her daycare was closed for two weeks (after they talked about a family trip).
Talk to a lawyer. She is harassing you. You were given the vacation slot fair and square. I would also talk to HR but still consult rhe lawyer.
This woman sounds like she probably creates drama and toxicity on other issues too. Poster has a good case for workplace harassment.
Why doesn't the woman just get with a program at her school for summer school then take them on vacation later in the year? Less foot traffic, less of other people's kids to deal with, more opportunities to just have fun, and the kids will feel especially special since they'll be getting time off in during an unusual time. It'll also teach them that sometimes you need to work a bit harder to get what you want
NTA. However i think the ballot system is sh*t, its to damn luck based. I used to work where someone always had to be available, so we all took turns on the major ones and for the rest, try to consider each others wishes. kids or no kids. Also some people was ok with working the holidays = extra money. Some wanted the time off as everyone else.
What a crap system. If you're lucky you get your chosen holidays 5 years in a row, if you're unlucky you don't get any? A ballot system is fine, only if it excludes the people who got their preferred dates the previous year, continuing until everyone has gotten their dates off in turn. All my previous employers did splits. You can have either xmas or newyears (sometimes split between both xmas days, new years eve and new years day) for example, you can have half term or summer break. Half of the people get the one day/week/2 weeks off, the other half get the other half off. Next year it's someone elses turn to pick first. Three ways if it's a large company (edit: on topic, no, people with kids don't get to hog all the "good" days off. It's nice to cover a shift for them if the kid is sick or something, but nope, can't have your cake and eat it too)
Sometimes there is no school and no babysitter mom needs time off but she has to schedule it like everyone else. I had plenty of days there was no school and I had to work. Paid a babysitter we never lived close to family so had to make it work.
This is stupid. It''s hard to dance around collegues and a spouse then you have to add children summer vacation time. Civilized people talk between them. I as a single person am perfectly flexible to push my vacation 2 weeks forward with no problems. Yeah it sucks a bit, but it's not like i am giving my vacation away.
My husband and I are always talking about these people, I have a kid so I should have this. Not how it works. We have a kid and we most definitely do not expect stuff to be handed over because I pushed out a kid and don’t want my kid growing up with the attitude that their owed something when their not.
I remember first round vacation picks when I worked at a casino. Only one person could have a week off at a time during summer and Christmas. I picked Christmas week for my first choice while everyone else that had kids took summer weeks off. Then we went in to choose our second choice I got one of the summer weeks left but they all tried to book Christmas snd was told no. They found out I had it off and bitched because I didn’t have kids and I was greedy. I told them flat out that my mother has breast cancer and we weren’t sure she would make another Christmas so they could shove it you know where. Your crotch goblins aren’t the only family in the world and not my problem. I have kids now too and still before anytime off in the summer will try for Christmas first because there are still things you can do in the summer on days offvv
The lady was NTA in this case. I had an unusual case once when I was in the commercial two-way radio installation and repair, i.e., police, fire, ambulance and hospital equipment. In the middle of a two week call rotation with the other techs that covered the other territories our company was responsible for, one of my wife's parents passed away. My manager told me to take whatever time I needed and I was so appreciative of what he and the other techs did. I was able to repay them later by covering for them when they emergency leave needs.
My company allocated vacation days by seniority which makes sense. Your employer is a weenie by putting the responsibility on the employees in the first place. However, since that's how things are, your coworker is out of luck. I don't care how many kids she managed to spit out, winner takes the spoils.
Many years ago, I worked as a salaried manager at a McDonald's. I worked pretty much every single holiday, as we needed a more senior manager around. It was always, "sorry pal, but you're single, no kids, you know how it is". I didn't think that affected my ability to enjoy Thanksgiving dinner with my family. I was annoyed by this, but I did my job as was expected of me. I also let it be known that if they booked me to work St. Patrick's Day or the day after, don't be surprised when I don't show up.
When you have problem getting children or simething like that .. it is really hurtfull that somebody else doesn't respect your need for time off! That's just one reason to mind your own business... And try to make agreements with holidays - one year to the one, next year the other...
I have a husband and children and one of my children has special needs. That said i never use that as an excuse to manipulate someone into getting something i want or need. Thats unexceptable behavior!! Ppl without children have responsibilities n important matters to deal with as well. I had children a bit later than my age group was having children n it used to infuriate me when they said i had less responsibilities bc i didnt have kids. I still had a full time job n a sick grandmother i was taking care of as well! Lastly i think that rule is a bit unreasonable. I am an essential employee (nurse) when too many ppl are going to be gone at once my employer as well as others uses an agency for replacements. Its the employers responsibility to make sure they have enough staff without causing friction in the workplace. Find another way dont put it on the staff its their time they earned it n they deserve to take their vacation whenever they desire not when is convenient for the employer/e
Sorry if I missed it; are they both asking for the entire month of June off? I know some people from India used to do that to visit family back home because it can take so long to get there and back that practically half of it ends up being travel. Otherwise, if it's just a normal week or two at a time, couldn't they stagger it so they could both take time off? As someone who also doesn't have any kids, I usually don't mind working around others' schedules if they have something specific they want to do. But even for me, if you want to have a get together/take a trip with a large group of family/friends, all with different schedules (as I will this year), trying to find a time that works for everyone is difficult enough. Once you find a time that works and request it off, you certainly don't want to (and shouldn't have to) deal with the pettiness and selfishness of someone else trying to shame you into changing plans just because they think their "real" family is more important.
I have kids and most of my coworkers too. We have similar situations (but we respect the decisions if our job ex. Who called dibs first, or considerate more important situations) first you won the vacation time fare and square, and as for her children...exactly...there her children not yours. If she would have won I trust you would have been, happy for her
I'd ask her point blank, in front of everyone, why your family is less important than hers. She'll develop a speech impediment.
That parent is being a toxic, entitled, ignorant cretin. Get her reported for harassment. If she then gets sacked, she's got all the time she needs.
It sucks, vacation conflicts. But that's why you usually have three or four slots that you have to choose from for the year. So they make sure that they have available associates and everybody gets a date. In this case it was decided by a lottery and the loser has to adjust her date to a different one. When I worked I had a lot more flexibility in my job and my kid's mother did not so I typically change my vacation schedule to match hers whatever she got. And I'm a father and I don't think it's another person's responsibility to give up their vacation for mine.
I had people pull this crap for years. I'd always say that just b/c I haven't given birth, doesn't mean I don't have family I want to see.
I would always volunteer to work holidays, as I was single with no kids and also was used to it from working in a restaurant when younger. Then, I started automatically be signed up for every holiday by my manager and was no longer even being asked, but one Christmas Eve when I had family coming in from out of town, you would have thought I killed someone when I wanted that half day off. Not one of my coworkers cared that I had covered that (half) day for them to be off for years! But, I wasn't in my "childish" manager's clique, so guess who ended up working that shift?!!! I guess I should've been grateful since my manager gave me a $5 Starbucks card for it. (She was a JOKE) Needless to say, I no longer work for that company.
"You want to spend your time with your kids, we'll guess what? My mom has kids too, and she wants to spend HER holiday time with them! So that's what I'm doing!" Maybe they should do a combination lottery and rotation. So if someone hasn't gotten their requested slot in the lottery for the past two or three years, then they are guaranteed to get it the following year (as long as no one else in the same boat requests the same dates.) That way it's a bit more fair, and not just based on luck every single time, because some people are just lucky/unlucky.
I've dealt with this my entire adult life. My last boss got all entitled about the holiday season (I was her assistant manager) because she had grandchildren and I didn't.
I think this system is pitting the coworkers against each other. I mean, OP clearly deserves her slots and the mother has no right to pester her about it, but maybe the workplace could step in and hire some more people/ temporary worker to cover the slot. Anyways, the woman with kids is objectively in a difficult situation. It's obviously not the OP's responsibility, and the mother's behaviour towards her is uncool, but people calling her a "breeder" or speaking about "keeping her legs closed" are really rude and devoid of empathy. Raising a family must be difficult (I'm child-free) and sometimes you may need some good will from others. Ask your own parents.
NTA. As a parent myself, I would never demand someone else to give up their leave. In my country, during school breaks, employees with school kids have priority for leave when school is closed. And people book their vacation appropriately. I have to share mine with a coworker (she takes over my tasks and I hers) with 3 kids and we change who takes which weeks of the school breaks each year. The ballot system is a nice idea though.
why should she give up her vacation just because someone else decided to have children. no one forced them to have this kids so why should we give them special treatment.
We chose vacations by seniority...if slot was filled, the next person just had to pick another...if the senior person ended up changing their vacation, they had to choose a slot not taken, and the next senior person had option to take the slot. .no anger, no selection if you weren't senior...never heard of lottery to decide time off...no wonder there is resentment. As for the bully, you aren't the ah
YOU didn't marry the b*tch, and YOU didn't knock her up 4 times either! Thats ALL ON HER! She has no business asking you for your time! If she wants your time so bad, SELL IT TO HER! Make a profit. I wouldn't take less than $200.00 a day. You don't have any reason to give her anything, except maybe a lawsuit for harassment and mental cruelty.
Everywhere I worked it's all about seniority, if I got hired before you then I got first choice, easy peasy
Christmas is a holiday boxing day is a holiday Easter is a holiday what these people are talking about are their personal vacations, lol I'll never stop cringing at that
I'm a single mom. I missed a LOT of stuff that happened during the daytime ~ track meets, cross country, things like that. There are a few events I do think parents should get a "pass" on ~ graduations, prom (things a parent can't control the date on but are just one day) ~ that a parent should get preferential treatment days off. But there's only 4 or 5 of those in a kid's lifetime. You choose to have kids, you suck it up if your vacation time that you want to take your kid to Someplace Special doesn't line up with the availability for vacation time. Other than truly special occasions, a parent has to suck it up and take the time off she can get without making other coworkers feel guilty.
50 years ago, a lot of employers would fire a woman as soon as she got married, because they expected her to start having kids, which would mean taking extra time off. If a woman was lucky back then, she might get to keep her job until she was actually pregnant. Obviously that's wrong, and we should never go back to those days; but to go in the opposite direction and give preferential treatment because of who they are off the clock would also be unfair. If the mother thinks the process is unfair, then HR is to whom she should complain.
In 1975, not long after I had married, I started working in the advertising department of a major department store in our area; I found out later that I almost wasn't hired because I would presumably start a family, and want to quit. Turns out I did quit, after our daughter was born, but only because, at nine months old, she had dislocated her elbow by climbing on top of, and falling off of, the babysitter's console TV! Childcare was very expensive, hard to find, and I had no family in the area, so we made that choice. Even back then, I worked from home and my husband would pick up and drop off the pages for the newspaper ads, until they found a replacement. My point is, I think back then co-workers treated each other more as friends than it seems people do these days; my husband's co-workers, in a different business, were also like family; there seems to be a lot more tension in the workplace these days. I could be completely wrong; it's just an observation from here, from me! NTA!
Load More Replies... NTA. But I have problems with all of the people saying “go tell HR!” HR is *not* your friend. They work for the best interests of the company. They may or may not take your side. If you trust someone in mgmt, it might be a good idea to let them know what’s going on. But don’t go to HR expecting instant justice.
This toxic s**t just adds to the problem of employers not hiring/promoting women because they expect special treatment
Seems like they should let people choose holiday time by seniority instead of lottery. If someone tries for the same time slot as another employee and loses the draw, all the other surrounding timeslots would already be taken.
Didn't even read it. NTA. Breeders think they should have special treatment. They absolutely should not!
I must be missing something, If I put in for June 8th -15 and it was decided that "Jim" asked for it first. Ok, I regroup and ask for June 23rd - 30th, which is open, not a big deal. If it's because Jim's kids are out of school June -August, so Sept or Oct is better for non-child folks as there's not a conflict with schooling, common sense could prevail. But if one or both is just being difficult, then treat them as the children they behaving to be.
we had an alternating system for major holidays - like Christmas, one year you go the week off leading to Christmas, the next it was the week between Christmas and New Year. It made it fair for all. As a childless person, I didn't want to travel at Spring break when prices were hiked and planes/hotels would be busy with families. Summer was different, we all took our turns.
That lottery system is a heck of a lot fairer than the seniority systems many companies use! It's totally unfair when those that have been with a company the longest always get first dibs.
UK. Worked in an office where two East Europeans felt entitled to go home for Xmas. However, the impact of this meant that other people were denied to spend time with their family.
Depends on the state/country. I grew up in NYS and we started after Labor day and went until the last week of June, taught in VT where we started mid August and ended by Memorial Day and now teach in MA where we start right before Labor Day (last week of August) and end 2nd week of June (plus however many snow days we need to make up).
Load More Replies... She does have a family. That's who she is going to visit. OP deserves and is entitled to vacations as much as the mom is.
Load More Replies... She doesn’t need to explain anything to the co worker. It’s almost like she needs her permission!! That’s very inappropriate and little crazy! The entitled co worker needs to get over herself! Being a parents doesn’t make you more special or deserving. You can’t expect others to accommodate your child or life. Using your child to guilt people is really gross.
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