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Woman Calls Out Her Sister For Failing At Homeschooling Her Kids, Family Drama Ensues
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Woman Calls Out Her Sister For Failing At Homeschooling Her Kids, Family Drama Ensues

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While there’s absolutely nothing wrong with homeschooling, it still has to be done right. After all, your children’s futures are at stake here. Unfortunately, not every parent is an education expert. And being a good mom doesn’t automatically mean that you’re a good teacher. That’s what we learned from redditor Willing_Occasion501.

The redditor shared how her sister ‘homeschools’ (or rather unschools) her kids which basically means that they’re left to do pretty much whatever they want, at their own pace. Actual learning? Not so much. And it’s a scary thing because the aunt is worried that two of her sister’s three children might not even be literate at 10 and 7 years old.

When the redditor’s sister suggested that she homeschool her own son in a similar way, she finally snapped and let her know what she really thinks of the way her two nieces and nephew are being raised. Like you could have expected, it caused a whole of drama and now the entire family seems set against the redditor who was only being honest. Have a read through her full story below and let us know who you personally think is in the right here, dear Pandas.

A woman mom-shamed her sister whose style of homeschooling left her kids uneducated and doing whatever they want

Image credits: Pexels (not the actual photo)

Here’s the full story about the family drama that ensued

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Image credits: Willing_Occasion501

The redditor pointed out that her sister had undiagnosed ADHD until college, so going to school was a thoroughly miserable experience for her. She didn’t want her own kids to have the same negative experiences, so she decided to homeschool them.

However, her homeschooling amounts to her kids going to dance class, playing soccer, watching TV, playing computer games, and doing pretty much whatever they want, whenever they want.

Even though I’m a big fan of freedom and flexibility myself, I also know that you can’t get anything worthwhile done without at least some order and discipline. These kids might be happy, but they’re lagging behind in important areas which are bound to compound as the years go by.

At the end of the day, you’ll have three individuals who are completely unprepared for life in the real world. Unless they spend the rest of their lives living with their parents, they’re likely to have an incredibly hard time finding jobs, adapting to strict work conditions and deadlines, and working with other people who were schooled more traditionally.

As far as the redditor knows, her sister’s kids don’t actually do any of the chores at home, either. What’s more, her sister put a stop to her quizzing her kids when she wanted to test how well they know math.

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To be completely fair, school as we know it is a fairly new concept. Lenore Skenazy, the president of Let Grow which promoted childhood independence, explained to me in a previous interview that learning used to be done in a very different way for much of history.

“In the United States, for instance, school only became compulsory a little over 100 years ago. Previously—for hundreds of thousands of years of human history—kids learned simply by watching, copying, helping, and playing. In other words, they’d hang around the adults, see how they made things like baskets and arrowheads, they’d ask questions, noodle around, and try to copy what their elders were doing,” Lenore told Bored Panda.

“They’d also help out as soon as they could—fetching things, tracking animals, whatever—and in between they’d be playing with a group of mixed-age kids. All these activities were fueled by curiosity,” she said.

“You were motivated to learn what the bigger kids in your group knew, too, because they were so cool. Your entire day consisted of observing and practicing the stuff you needed to know— skills and games. If you weren’t curious, you weren’t going to enjoy life, or succeed at it.”

Most redditors supported the woman and thought that she was completely in the right to criticize her sister

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However, some people had a different opinion and actually thought the woman was way out of line

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jlkooiker avatar
lenka
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I was unschooled and honestly the negatives so heavily outweigh the benefits. I eventually went on to uni and got my degree but it took me longer and I had to work harder because I lacked so much fundamental stuff. My brothers were not so lucky. The youngest can read and write and not much else. The next one tried to go to school but did not meet any of the admission competenacies for high school - even though he was 18. Even worse, the social implications of unschooling are significant and, in my personal experience, damaging.

marneederider40 avatar
Marnie
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

That's tragic. Society used to try to ensure every kid was educated. I'm sorry that's how it went for you. It can be done right. My sister homeschooled her children. The oldest was home-schooled until high school. She was a nearly straight A student and went on to get a degree with very high grades. All the kids were boisterous and sociable and well-behaved. They had a lot of social interaction - probably more than most in-school kids. (Anyone who says kids need to school for social interaction is depriving their kids. They get very little of it there. Just a few minutes here and there.)

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sweetangelce04 avatar
CatWoman312
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

She was simply expressing her concerns, not shaming her. When her children never move out or “adult” she’ll see her failures. Poor kids. I don’t see why this isn’t illegal

donotreplytokjk avatar
Otter
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Oh, and if the sister's first response was "You're mom-shaming me" and not "My children are well ahead of public school children of their age", you know there's a problem. The "You're shaming me" thing is what people say when an accusation is true.

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laurencaswell4 avatar
Lauren Caswell
Community Member
2 years ago (edited) DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Doesn't homeschooling involve the children having to complete standardised tests/assessments every so often? I'm pretty sure there is a curriculum of basic things they need to learn, but I thought that was monitored through an occasional test to check progress/comprehension? I don't know much about home schooling. (EDIT: the title changed from homeschooled to non schooled)

jlkooiker avatar
lenka
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Homeschooling does yes, but this is UNschooling. It means the kids are not engaged in *any* formal or structured learning process. Usually it requires signifcant investment of time and energy on the part of the parents to expose the children to a wide range of activities and stimuli designed to peak the childs natural interest in learning. I.e. taking them to the museum and encouraging them to learn about one of the exhibits by reading books on the subject or learning math by giving them control of the household budget and guiding them through it for a month (for eg). It's unstructured and not tested at all. In most developed countries its illegal.

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leodomitrix avatar
Leo Domitrix
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I'll catch shi*, but... my one godson was homeschooled and barely qualified to enter the US military as a result. Do you know how crappy your literacy/numeracy have to be to barely make it into the US Army? Sure, he did great by "homeschooling standards", but his "high school degree" is about where we normally have kids in a school system at age 12. It's awful.

jedimoonlarkavenger avatar
RiaDeCaterpillar
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Sorry the only part about this i don't agree with was the "he did great by homeschooling standards" Speaking as a homeschooler my self, almost everyone i know is a perfectionist and easily got into uni. our standards are a lot higher than that.

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amyjobuchanan avatar
Amy Jo Buchanan
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

How is this not illegal? Kids don't always know what's best for them! It's up to us as adults to set boundaries and rules so they have some type of structure in their lives. They will be very poorly equipped for when they become of age and unable to deal with the very real and sobering challenges the real world brings. Those kids are being set up for failure and a distorted sense of what reality is... It's not too late for them to start, though! They could catch up really quickly if they tried and if someone took the time and effort to bring them up to speed....

tuffkat4050 avatar
Matilda Poser
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Well OK then, Amy Jo---what do you say about the significant percentages of children who are sent to traditional schools who learn nothing, are bullied, and end up flunking out---or passing even though they have no survival skills? Sorry, but any parent who is unable or unwilling to teach their own children better than a stranger can is not doing a very good job of parenting. And btw---my sons averaged 4 years AHEAD of their classmates when they finally went to school. Do you have any advice on how we should have brought their classmates up to par? After all, I had to pay full property taxes to subsidize the public schools as well as pay for 100% of my son's expenses--so why were the "schooled" children behind? It's amazing to me that schools all claim that they needs parents involvement to succeed---but nothing makes you more "suspicious" than actually dedicating ALL of your time to making sure your kids are educated.

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noraalmeida avatar
Nora AlMeida
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Structured education (the opposite of ‘unschooling’) from a young age is great for forming neural pathways, which helps people with their ability to think critically as they grow older. It’s also great to enhance one’s ability to do things because of the good that results from doing them, even if you don’t feel like doing them (some classes like ‘instrumental music’ class was a chore; couldn’t stand it, but had to deal with it, which is good for my patience levels when dealing with annoying tasks).

suzn34 avatar
Susan Bosse
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

First question: who would want to be with their kids 24/7?? Next up: How is that legal? They have to pass standardized tests and report to the state the progress. How does this happen?? Is this really a thing? If so, it's bonkers.

amyleigh-ritediesel avatar
Yuki Li
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I love how "you're mom-shaming me" was used as if that changes anything. Some things/people deserve to be shamed - this being one of them.

ngwetzel avatar
Furious George
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

This sounds incredibly damaging, and should probably be classified as child abuse IF they actually are uneducated. It's a little concerning that by the OP own admission she has absolutely no idea what/if they are learning. I think unschooling could be good in certain circumstances (I had a terrible time in school and was usually pretty annoyed by classrooms having to spend most of their time catering to the worst performing students), but that doesn't mean it should be a go-to. At the risk of being dragged here, I'm pretty sick of our societal "no-shaming" policy that has become the norm. Someone who doesn't teach their kids deserves to be shamed the same way a parent taking morbidly obese children to McDonald's deserves to be shamed. When did we decide that children's welfare was less important than parents feeling good about themselves?

lisa-mahoney1975 avatar
The Deez
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

We were a homeschooling family for both of my kid's entire education, from kindergarten through their graduation, so I know that homeschooling, in general, works. However, even though I labeled myself as "the laziest homeschooler on the planet" (LOL!) there was no way I could have unschooled. I know it pans out well for some families but I always operated with the idea that, should something catastrophic happen and we had to put them in PS, they needed to be able to attend the grade appropriate for their age. Once they got to high school, I structured school in such a way that I felt comfortable stating "Yes, they have completed all the credits they would have received if they had been in a PS setting." I knew a couple of families (online, through message boards) who unschooled and always said things like "Oh, Johnny couldn't read when he was 8 but once he hit 12 he picked it up and now reads like a champ!" The thought of that practically gives me hives! LOL!

steiner_seinfeld76 avatar
alex
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I was unschooled, but have never experienced any issues from it. My academic abilities have always been on-par with my peers, with regular variety in skill (Does ANYONE really understand trigonometry?) But I know exactly why my experience is different: I was still schooled. I didn't have standardized tests or a curriculum, but neither did most educated people through history. I understand "real" unschooling as basically Montessori homeschooling. I don't know if this is what unschooling was intended as, but evidently people are taking "un" literally and using it as an apologetic for neglecting their children. People have to understand that parents like this would have neglected their children anyway. If you were set back by unschooling, being in public school wouldn't have made your life any easier, your life just would have been difficult in different ways. It's sad, but unschooling isn't the problem. Neglectful parents are. Making "unschooling" illegal wouldn't fix them.

protonefrid avatar
Popescu Adina
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

If you go to school you at least meet teachers who might partially help out where the parents failed, you get books, meet other kids you might enjoy to work with or compete with and get better... your mind might get stimulated in different ways. So you'd be better off on the long run than being just with your bad parents and do nothing. Saying that bad unschooling is the same as PS is weird IMO

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deborahbrett avatar
Deborah B
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Unschooling has to be very dedicated to work, with a very committed teacher, clear boundries and disipline. When it works, the teacher is guiding the child in their learning, being responsive to how they learn best, and motivating them and building their curiosity. The child chooses when to do maths, and how much to do, but the teacher gets them engaged with actually using maths practically on a consistant basis - working out how much they can buy with their allowance and making budgeting decisions, building a treehouse or a gocart together, and working out the maths in the planning, and how much wood they will need to buy, and how much it will cost. Cooking, and doubling or halving the recipe. Organised math is happening too - one maths worksheet completed accurately buys one hour of computer games or tv. It's hard to unschool properly, and someone who has ADHD and struggled with school herself may not have the educational attainment, or the level of focus and commitment it takes.

bcgrote avatar
Brandy Grote
Community Member
2 years ago (edited) DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

In most states, homeschooling is RIGIDLY controlled! Kids are tested yearly, parents have to display their curricula. I know a woman with 6 kids, homeschooled, who truly puts in the teaching. Kids earn "screen credits" from doing chores and homework that they can use for tv or tablet viewing. They have groups that meet for sports and play, and do classes in the community as well. Even her 3 year old is involved in age appropriate classes and life learning. Farm chores, going shopping, helping with household work... The mom is amazing, and her kids are very intelligent and fun.

ohiowandering_around avatar
OHIOWAndering_Around
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I have 2 cousins who were unschooled and I remember the family being horrified by it. They were allowed to follow what they were passionate about from junior high on. One cousin went to college and got a degree in animal sciences and now works on a fairly large ranch. The second has had an amazing 25-year marriage, raised 4 good kids, and eventually decided to go back to school as a dental hygenist once all of the kids were in school even though she really didn't need to. I think it's rare that it works out for all parties involved. If you're going to do it it seems that you almost need that schooled elementary education. I also used to babysit kids who were homeschooled in elementary/junior high and went to high school. That seemed to work really good for them, too. They had some troubles adapting to public school, but all three ended up in trade school or college depending on what they wanted to study.

suzannehaigh avatar
Tee Witt
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

What worries me about homeschooling is that it provides so much free time for kids to do as they please. Beside the point of keeping them in check what about when they start work/college etc. how will they cope with the long structured hours?

mariezellmer avatar
Marie
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

As a "homeschooled" kid between 3rd and 5th grade--with 6 siblings--I have both perspectives. Large schools over 1-10,000 are horrible structurally. Oversized classes taking less than an hour each, with curriculum being locked-up and parcelled out, was restrictive, and punished uncontrolleable events. Homeschooling was closer to reality, with learning done in context, like math in cooking or car repair. Lessons were easier to absorb but without a teaching background parents had no idea how to organize the curriculum and much information was left out because of "Christian values" making everything not biblical taboo to even learn. (Like African genocides, sex, or evolution). The best was online and textbook based classes... read book/video... have a class to ask teacher questions...and then apply knowledge directly into real life. Seems simple.

oliventi avatar
Holvnn Olive Ntivuguruzwa
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

A 7years old who can read, this shows the kids are doing something. My country many kids are starting school at 7, and can't even read their name. So, if the person who posted this don't live with these kids on daily basis, he shouldn't be shaming them. Sometimes they could be doing nothing because she/he is there. 🤷

sistence avatar
Lenka Smetanová
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

in my country you would go to jail if you dont send kids to school. If you insist on homeschool teaching, then they require you to send your kid once i na year for a knowledge test if the kid know some basic things.

hazelree avatar
Stille20
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I'm against home schooling, BUT she really doesn't know what the kids do in terms of lessons. She doesn't actually know if the kids can't read and she lashed out rather than having a civil conversation.

edc_82 avatar
Lola
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I had a friend who was homeschooled, but every year the state had to test them to see if they were on par with everything. If your state doesn’t do that, then child services need to be called. This is illegal and wrong in so many ways. I have no problem with homeschooling, as a matter of fact I prefer it better, but please do it right.

bex-finken avatar
Bex
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

There was no mom-shaming. And why are people telling her YTA for bringing up the kids? They were having a conversation about kids. How do you do that and not bring them up? Mom-shaming definitely exists. This isn't it. This is the sister hiding behind women that are genuinely mom-shamed. That's a sh*tbag move.

dmarsh avatar
Daniel Marsh
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

What we're seeing here, if this OP is both true and fair, is the result of the ability to abuse freedom. But in deciding whether to deprive the citizenry of its freedom, the outlier abuses shouldn't be the determinant. (Aren't there teachers in public schools who abuse their positions?) Even if you hold that the state has the right to limit personal freedom, at the very least, you must look at the total, actual results of a policy, not anecdotes. As for this anecdote: the fact that the parent fell back on complaining about shaming instead of defending outcomes seems to reflect a guilty conscience, but since the OP posted this, it may also reflect a past history of deliberate shaming. It may also be that the OP isn't seeing typical behavior, since the imminent arrival of an aunt may certainly disrupt learning based on natural curiosity.

kelli_m_tomko avatar
Kelli Tomko
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

As with anything else, there is a right way and a wrong way to to something, and Unschooling does not actually mean "not schooling." Neither does homeschooling, and anyone who treats it that way should not be in charge of their kids education. My kids were homeschooled from preschool to fourth and fifth grade for the older two and until second grade for the youngest, though he did go back to homeschooling from fourth through seventh grades. Leaving them to their own devices because they'll "learn naturally" is the stupdest thing I've ever heard. My kids were unschooled for the last two years they were home. The "did school' five days a week. It took us an hour to an hour and half at the most. You really can't "unschool" the "Three Rs." We did the basics every morning. After that, school was left to "teachable moments," and, unless you just don't give a damn, those are found literally everywhere. You can't be careless or lazy to unschool.

donotreplytokjk avatar
Otter
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I know of a real-life case like this, one parent believed in "unschooling" and the other parent eventually got primary custody because the kids would get a real education with them. The unschooler parent has a child from a previous relationship who seems barely literate and unable to do basic maths.

griffinx avatar
Fluffy Griffin
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Here's the thing with homeschooling, just because you visit and the kids aren't "working" does not mean they didn't get their stuff done earlier. Even when my kid was doing virtual school, we occasionally finished it all by 11 am or took a day off and made up the work later. (I was also homeschooled and it worked similarly). So the only time to be concerned is not that you have never seen then work, or that you suspect "they might not be able to read a menu" but if you SEE that they are actually lacking. All I heard from this was guesses. That all said, I'm definitely pro-public school, but know it's not the best learning environment for everyone.

marneederider40 avatar
Marnie
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

It is definitely her business. It is society's business. This should be against the law. If it is against the law, it should be enforced.

jedimoonlarkavenger avatar
RiaDeCaterpillar
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

None of my homeschooled friends unschool, but i know of a couple families in the wider homeschool circle who do. essentially they don't follow a curriculum, they will learn math by say, building lego and using that when they are younger, stuff like that. it is more hands on. i don't know if this person is doing it right or not, it could also have something to do with OP not liking homeschool, i don't really get enough info to tell.

marinamercouri avatar
Beatrice Multhaupt
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Teacher her: please realize that you teach others not for the sake of modifying their behavior or of providing benefits but for the insights this will provide for YOU.

costa2706 avatar
Kari Panda
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I find it hard to tell whether the children are actually unschooled or not from this little information. Guess only a professional could tell after having them take a few age-appropriate tests, but I don‘t even know whom you could contact for such a case. (Homeschooling doesn’t exist in my country. Are there any official agencies for homeschooling questions/problems?)

elisabethharris_1 avatar
Elisabeth Harris
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

The question asker is the A-hole. She could’ve simply politely said she was looking forward to sending her own child to school and let differences be differences, but she went out of her way to insult her sister based on passive observations of children she barely deigns to know. Even though she says the eldest girl writes stories the younger can read and they’re engaged in activities which a clear indication of engagement on their part. I feel like people don’t acknowledge kids literally read books and comics on a tablet now and that games have narrative value stop acting so elderly.She was mean to her sister and wants people to agree with her reasoning but that doesn’t offset the cruelty. Sending your kid to school is no guarantee of success, literally nothing is anymore.

franziska-eller avatar
Konpat
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

This post explains the enormous ignorance shown by some US people. Like the total lack of geographical or political understanding. I get it now!

phantasteek avatar
ChickyChicky
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I think she could have just said "thanks for your offer, but we think this is best for our kid."

dmarsh avatar
Daniel Marsh
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Please DO NOT let this become a forum on bashing homeschooling. Homeschooled students scored 78 points higher on SATs (college-entrance tests) than their public-school peers. (This is an ENORMOUS gap!) Both groups, however, are self-selecting, since these are tests for college admissions. But homeschooled students are far more likely (50% more likely!) to attend college. And homeschooled were far more likely to succeed at college (67% graduation rate, vs 57%). Public-school teachers always push smaller classroom sizes as more effective; so why shouldn't we expect such results? And homeschooling reduces the burden on public-school funding; the teachers' unions hate it so much because they presume homeschooling will reduce support for school taxes, but amazingly, even this isn't true.

dmarsh avatar
Daniel Marsh
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

These performance gaps persist even when data is statistically adjusted to account for family income and parental education, and when only two-parent homes are compared.

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jamie_mayfield avatar
Ivana
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Yea, just say "Thanks but no thanks, that is not the route I want to take with our son." The kids are literate so she is teaching them something so it could be that the sister just doesn't see the work that is being done. Not like the kids would be doing school stuff when company is over. Sounds like the person who posted this is biased against it and has already built up in her head how she thinks her sister is handling things but doesn't know for sure. My kids will go to public schools for socialization but I plan on most of their learning to take place at home. I skipped more days than I attended and dropped out after the 9th grade. School and me did not mix but I thrived in college and graduated with honors with my Masters, plan on going back next year for my PhD. You can't assume knowledge level based on the type of schooling being done and while I 100% support traditional school over any form of homeschooling, this sounds like she was just being mean rather than concerned.

protonefrid avatar
Popescu Adina
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

She only knows that the oldest one (12) is literate but at 12 being literate is setting the bar real low IMO. Also, the sister offered to 'watch' her kid when they are at work as if that's all she'd had to do if he is "unschooled'... and insisting that her kid be unschooled in the first place is a low move too. So if this mom is mean by saying what she thinks (she might be right too and then the ruined lives of those kids are on her too because she let it be instead of calling the social services), her sister is no saint either if she buts in and insists to get them to unschool their kid.

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izabelaizukulikowska avatar
Isabella
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Ahh, Murrica - the wealtjhiest of third world countries. You go to jail for this where I live - if your kids are not in school or homeschooled - you go to jail. Kids go to foster care. And homeschooling means every semester kid HAVE TO attend normal exam in school [or if disabled - teachers come to you] to prove what they've learned learned.

spazmops19 avatar
Logic and Reason
Community Member
2 years ago

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Oh for Christ’s sake, the US is not a third world country, and saying it is just makes you seem ignorant.

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renskedejonge9 avatar
Flip
Community Member
2 years ago (edited) DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

She may do that? We used to have everyone wise schools, where the kids could decide what they wanted to do. They closed em later. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dxrtKFk-64Y Aren't there special schools for kids with ADHD and such?

melanieking avatar
Axolotl King
Community Member
2 years ago

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Honestly She's in the wrong for not giving her kids proper education but op is in the wrong because it's not Op's decision on how to raise their sisters kids so esh?

dc1 avatar
DC
Community Member
2 years ago

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All those NTA-threads are boring. We get to see one side only, and likely, displayed more in a way appearing reasonable and considerate, rather than truly honest. Pointless - why is this even a thing?

oscurotormenta avatar
R.k. White
Community Member
2 years ago

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Did she ask about the kids' curriculum? Offer to help? The fact that she is their aunt and doesn't know is pretty telling...

onemessylady avatar
Aunt Messy
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

She's got her own kid to raise. Why would she help someone who could solve their own problem by sending her kids to school?

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jlkooiker avatar
lenka
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I was unschooled and honestly the negatives so heavily outweigh the benefits. I eventually went on to uni and got my degree but it took me longer and I had to work harder because I lacked so much fundamental stuff. My brothers were not so lucky. The youngest can read and write and not much else. The next one tried to go to school but did not meet any of the admission competenacies for high school - even though he was 18. Even worse, the social implications of unschooling are significant and, in my personal experience, damaging.

marneederider40 avatar
Marnie
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

That's tragic. Society used to try to ensure every kid was educated. I'm sorry that's how it went for you. It can be done right. My sister homeschooled her children. The oldest was home-schooled until high school. She was a nearly straight A student and went on to get a degree with very high grades. All the kids were boisterous and sociable and well-behaved. They had a lot of social interaction - probably more than most in-school kids. (Anyone who says kids need to school for social interaction is depriving their kids. They get very little of it there. Just a few minutes here and there.)

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sweetangelce04 avatar
CatWoman312
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

She was simply expressing her concerns, not shaming her. When her children never move out or “adult” she’ll see her failures. Poor kids. I don’t see why this isn’t illegal

donotreplytokjk avatar
Otter
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Oh, and if the sister's first response was "You're mom-shaming me" and not "My children are well ahead of public school children of their age", you know there's a problem. The "You're shaming me" thing is what people say when an accusation is true.

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laurencaswell4 avatar
Lauren Caswell
Community Member
2 years ago (edited) DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Doesn't homeschooling involve the children having to complete standardised tests/assessments every so often? I'm pretty sure there is a curriculum of basic things they need to learn, but I thought that was monitored through an occasional test to check progress/comprehension? I don't know much about home schooling. (EDIT: the title changed from homeschooled to non schooled)

jlkooiker avatar
lenka
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Homeschooling does yes, but this is UNschooling. It means the kids are not engaged in *any* formal or structured learning process. Usually it requires signifcant investment of time and energy on the part of the parents to expose the children to a wide range of activities and stimuli designed to peak the childs natural interest in learning. I.e. taking them to the museum and encouraging them to learn about one of the exhibits by reading books on the subject or learning math by giving them control of the household budget and guiding them through it for a month (for eg). It's unstructured and not tested at all. In most developed countries its illegal.

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leodomitrix avatar
Leo Domitrix
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I'll catch shi*, but... my one godson was homeschooled and barely qualified to enter the US military as a result. Do you know how crappy your literacy/numeracy have to be to barely make it into the US Army? Sure, he did great by "homeschooling standards", but his "high school degree" is about where we normally have kids in a school system at age 12. It's awful.

jedimoonlarkavenger avatar
RiaDeCaterpillar
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Sorry the only part about this i don't agree with was the "he did great by homeschooling standards" Speaking as a homeschooler my self, almost everyone i know is a perfectionist and easily got into uni. our standards are a lot higher than that.

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amyjobuchanan avatar
Amy Jo Buchanan
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

How is this not illegal? Kids don't always know what's best for them! It's up to us as adults to set boundaries and rules so they have some type of structure in their lives. They will be very poorly equipped for when they become of age and unable to deal with the very real and sobering challenges the real world brings. Those kids are being set up for failure and a distorted sense of what reality is... It's not too late for them to start, though! They could catch up really quickly if they tried and if someone took the time and effort to bring them up to speed....

tuffkat4050 avatar
Matilda Poser
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Well OK then, Amy Jo---what do you say about the significant percentages of children who are sent to traditional schools who learn nothing, are bullied, and end up flunking out---or passing even though they have no survival skills? Sorry, but any parent who is unable or unwilling to teach their own children better than a stranger can is not doing a very good job of parenting. And btw---my sons averaged 4 years AHEAD of their classmates when they finally went to school. Do you have any advice on how we should have brought their classmates up to par? After all, I had to pay full property taxes to subsidize the public schools as well as pay for 100% of my son's expenses--so why were the "schooled" children behind? It's amazing to me that schools all claim that they needs parents involvement to succeed---but nothing makes you more "suspicious" than actually dedicating ALL of your time to making sure your kids are educated.

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noraalmeida avatar
Nora AlMeida
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Structured education (the opposite of ‘unschooling’) from a young age is great for forming neural pathways, which helps people with their ability to think critically as they grow older. It’s also great to enhance one’s ability to do things because of the good that results from doing them, even if you don’t feel like doing them (some classes like ‘instrumental music’ class was a chore; couldn’t stand it, but had to deal with it, which is good for my patience levels when dealing with annoying tasks).

suzn34 avatar
Susan Bosse
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

First question: who would want to be with their kids 24/7?? Next up: How is that legal? They have to pass standardized tests and report to the state the progress. How does this happen?? Is this really a thing? If so, it's bonkers.

amyleigh-ritediesel avatar
Yuki Li
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I love how "you're mom-shaming me" was used as if that changes anything. Some things/people deserve to be shamed - this being one of them.

ngwetzel avatar
Furious George
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

This sounds incredibly damaging, and should probably be classified as child abuse IF they actually are uneducated. It's a little concerning that by the OP own admission she has absolutely no idea what/if they are learning. I think unschooling could be good in certain circumstances (I had a terrible time in school and was usually pretty annoyed by classrooms having to spend most of their time catering to the worst performing students), but that doesn't mean it should be a go-to. At the risk of being dragged here, I'm pretty sick of our societal "no-shaming" policy that has become the norm. Someone who doesn't teach their kids deserves to be shamed the same way a parent taking morbidly obese children to McDonald's deserves to be shamed. When did we decide that children's welfare was less important than parents feeling good about themselves?

lisa-mahoney1975 avatar
The Deez
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

We were a homeschooling family for both of my kid's entire education, from kindergarten through their graduation, so I know that homeschooling, in general, works. However, even though I labeled myself as "the laziest homeschooler on the planet" (LOL!) there was no way I could have unschooled. I know it pans out well for some families but I always operated with the idea that, should something catastrophic happen and we had to put them in PS, they needed to be able to attend the grade appropriate for their age. Once they got to high school, I structured school in such a way that I felt comfortable stating "Yes, they have completed all the credits they would have received if they had been in a PS setting." I knew a couple of families (online, through message boards) who unschooled and always said things like "Oh, Johnny couldn't read when he was 8 but once he hit 12 he picked it up and now reads like a champ!" The thought of that practically gives me hives! LOL!

steiner_seinfeld76 avatar
alex
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I was unschooled, but have never experienced any issues from it. My academic abilities have always been on-par with my peers, with regular variety in skill (Does ANYONE really understand trigonometry?) But I know exactly why my experience is different: I was still schooled. I didn't have standardized tests or a curriculum, but neither did most educated people through history. I understand "real" unschooling as basically Montessori homeschooling. I don't know if this is what unschooling was intended as, but evidently people are taking "un" literally and using it as an apologetic for neglecting their children. People have to understand that parents like this would have neglected their children anyway. If you were set back by unschooling, being in public school wouldn't have made your life any easier, your life just would have been difficult in different ways. It's sad, but unschooling isn't the problem. Neglectful parents are. Making "unschooling" illegal wouldn't fix them.

protonefrid avatar
Popescu Adina
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

If you go to school you at least meet teachers who might partially help out where the parents failed, you get books, meet other kids you might enjoy to work with or compete with and get better... your mind might get stimulated in different ways. So you'd be better off on the long run than being just with your bad parents and do nothing. Saying that bad unschooling is the same as PS is weird IMO

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Deborah B
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Unschooling has to be very dedicated to work, with a very committed teacher, clear boundries and disipline. When it works, the teacher is guiding the child in their learning, being responsive to how they learn best, and motivating them and building their curiosity. The child chooses when to do maths, and how much to do, but the teacher gets them engaged with actually using maths practically on a consistant basis - working out how much they can buy with their allowance and making budgeting decisions, building a treehouse or a gocart together, and working out the maths in the planning, and how much wood they will need to buy, and how much it will cost. Cooking, and doubling or halving the recipe. Organised math is happening too - one maths worksheet completed accurately buys one hour of computer games or tv. It's hard to unschool properly, and someone who has ADHD and struggled with school herself may not have the educational attainment, or the level of focus and commitment it takes.

bcgrote avatar
Brandy Grote
Community Member
2 years ago (edited) DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

In most states, homeschooling is RIGIDLY controlled! Kids are tested yearly, parents have to display their curricula. I know a woman with 6 kids, homeschooled, who truly puts in the teaching. Kids earn "screen credits" from doing chores and homework that they can use for tv or tablet viewing. They have groups that meet for sports and play, and do classes in the community as well. Even her 3 year old is involved in age appropriate classes and life learning. Farm chores, going shopping, helping with household work... The mom is amazing, and her kids are very intelligent and fun.

ohiowandering_around avatar
OHIOWAndering_Around
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I have 2 cousins who were unschooled and I remember the family being horrified by it. They were allowed to follow what they were passionate about from junior high on. One cousin went to college and got a degree in animal sciences and now works on a fairly large ranch. The second has had an amazing 25-year marriage, raised 4 good kids, and eventually decided to go back to school as a dental hygenist once all of the kids were in school even though she really didn't need to. I think it's rare that it works out for all parties involved. If you're going to do it it seems that you almost need that schooled elementary education. I also used to babysit kids who were homeschooled in elementary/junior high and went to high school. That seemed to work really good for them, too. They had some troubles adapting to public school, but all three ended up in trade school or college depending on what they wanted to study.

suzannehaigh avatar
Tee Witt
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

What worries me about homeschooling is that it provides so much free time for kids to do as they please. Beside the point of keeping them in check what about when they start work/college etc. how will they cope with the long structured hours?

mariezellmer avatar
Marie
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

As a "homeschooled" kid between 3rd and 5th grade--with 6 siblings--I have both perspectives. Large schools over 1-10,000 are horrible structurally. Oversized classes taking less than an hour each, with curriculum being locked-up and parcelled out, was restrictive, and punished uncontrolleable events. Homeschooling was closer to reality, with learning done in context, like math in cooking or car repair. Lessons were easier to absorb but without a teaching background parents had no idea how to organize the curriculum and much information was left out because of "Christian values" making everything not biblical taboo to even learn. (Like African genocides, sex, or evolution). The best was online and textbook based classes... read book/video... have a class to ask teacher questions...and then apply knowledge directly into real life. Seems simple.

oliventi avatar
Holvnn Olive Ntivuguruzwa
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

A 7years old who can read, this shows the kids are doing something. My country many kids are starting school at 7, and can't even read their name. So, if the person who posted this don't live with these kids on daily basis, he shouldn't be shaming them. Sometimes they could be doing nothing because she/he is there. 🤷

sistence avatar
Lenka Smetanová
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

in my country you would go to jail if you dont send kids to school. If you insist on homeschool teaching, then they require you to send your kid once i na year for a knowledge test if the kid know some basic things.

hazelree avatar
Stille20
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I'm against home schooling, BUT she really doesn't know what the kids do in terms of lessons. She doesn't actually know if the kids can't read and she lashed out rather than having a civil conversation.

edc_82 avatar
Lola
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I had a friend who was homeschooled, but every year the state had to test them to see if they were on par with everything. If your state doesn’t do that, then child services need to be called. This is illegal and wrong in so many ways. I have no problem with homeschooling, as a matter of fact I prefer it better, but please do it right.

bex-finken avatar
Bex
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

There was no mom-shaming. And why are people telling her YTA for bringing up the kids? They were having a conversation about kids. How do you do that and not bring them up? Mom-shaming definitely exists. This isn't it. This is the sister hiding behind women that are genuinely mom-shamed. That's a sh*tbag move.

dmarsh avatar
Daniel Marsh
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

What we're seeing here, if this OP is both true and fair, is the result of the ability to abuse freedom. But in deciding whether to deprive the citizenry of its freedom, the outlier abuses shouldn't be the determinant. (Aren't there teachers in public schools who abuse their positions?) Even if you hold that the state has the right to limit personal freedom, at the very least, you must look at the total, actual results of a policy, not anecdotes. As for this anecdote: the fact that the parent fell back on complaining about shaming instead of defending outcomes seems to reflect a guilty conscience, but since the OP posted this, it may also reflect a past history of deliberate shaming. It may also be that the OP isn't seeing typical behavior, since the imminent arrival of an aunt may certainly disrupt learning based on natural curiosity.

kelli_m_tomko avatar
Kelli Tomko
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

As with anything else, there is a right way and a wrong way to to something, and Unschooling does not actually mean "not schooling." Neither does homeschooling, and anyone who treats it that way should not be in charge of their kids education. My kids were homeschooled from preschool to fourth and fifth grade for the older two and until second grade for the youngest, though he did go back to homeschooling from fourth through seventh grades. Leaving them to their own devices because they'll "learn naturally" is the stupdest thing I've ever heard. My kids were unschooled for the last two years they were home. The "did school' five days a week. It took us an hour to an hour and half at the most. You really can't "unschool" the "Three Rs." We did the basics every morning. After that, school was left to "teachable moments," and, unless you just don't give a damn, those are found literally everywhere. You can't be careless or lazy to unschool.

donotreplytokjk avatar
Otter
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I know of a real-life case like this, one parent believed in "unschooling" and the other parent eventually got primary custody because the kids would get a real education with them. The unschooler parent has a child from a previous relationship who seems barely literate and unable to do basic maths.

griffinx avatar
Fluffy Griffin
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Here's the thing with homeschooling, just because you visit and the kids aren't "working" does not mean they didn't get their stuff done earlier. Even when my kid was doing virtual school, we occasionally finished it all by 11 am or took a day off and made up the work later. (I was also homeschooled and it worked similarly). So the only time to be concerned is not that you have never seen then work, or that you suspect "they might not be able to read a menu" but if you SEE that they are actually lacking. All I heard from this was guesses. That all said, I'm definitely pro-public school, but know it's not the best learning environment for everyone.

marneederider40 avatar
Marnie
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

It is definitely her business. It is society's business. This should be against the law. If it is against the law, it should be enforced.

jedimoonlarkavenger avatar
RiaDeCaterpillar
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

None of my homeschooled friends unschool, but i know of a couple families in the wider homeschool circle who do. essentially they don't follow a curriculum, they will learn math by say, building lego and using that when they are younger, stuff like that. it is more hands on. i don't know if this person is doing it right or not, it could also have something to do with OP not liking homeschool, i don't really get enough info to tell.

marinamercouri avatar
Beatrice Multhaupt
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Teacher her: please realize that you teach others not for the sake of modifying their behavior or of providing benefits but for the insights this will provide for YOU.

costa2706 avatar
Kari Panda
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I find it hard to tell whether the children are actually unschooled or not from this little information. Guess only a professional could tell after having them take a few age-appropriate tests, but I don‘t even know whom you could contact for such a case. (Homeschooling doesn’t exist in my country. Are there any official agencies for homeschooling questions/problems?)

elisabethharris_1 avatar
Elisabeth Harris
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

The question asker is the A-hole. She could’ve simply politely said she was looking forward to sending her own child to school and let differences be differences, but she went out of her way to insult her sister based on passive observations of children she barely deigns to know. Even though she says the eldest girl writes stories the younger can read and they’re engaged in activities which a clear indication of engagement on their part. I feel like people don’t acknowledge kids literally read books and comics on a tablet now and that games have narrative value stop acting so elderly.She was mean to her sister and wants people to agree with her reasoning but that doesn’t offset the cruelty. Sending your kid to school is no guarantee of success, literally nothing is anymore.

franziska-eller avatar
Konpat
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

This post explains the enormous ignorance shown by some US people. Like the total lack of geographical or political understanding. I get it now!

phantasteek avatar
ChickyChicky
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I think she could have just said "thanks for your offer, but we think this is best for our kid."

dmarsh avatar
Daniel Marsh
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Please DO NOT let this become a forum on bashing homeschooling. Homeschooled students scored 78 points higher on SATs (college-entrance tests) than their public-school peers. (This is an ENORMOUS gap!) Both groups, however, are self-selecting, since these are tests for college admissions. But homeschooled students are far more likely (50% more likely!) to attend college. And homeschooled were far more likely to succeed at college (67% graduation rate, vs 57%). Public-school teachers always push smaller classroom sizes as more effective; so why shouldn't we expect such results? And homeschooling reduces the burden on public-school funding; the teachers' unions hate it so much because they presume homeschooling will reduce support for school taxes, but amazingly, even this isn't true.

dmarsh avatar
Daniel Marsh
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

These performance gaps persist even when data is statistically adjusted to account for family income and parental education, and when only two-parent homes are compared.

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jamie_mayfield avatar
Ivana
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Yea, just say "Thanks but no thanks, that is not the route I want to take with our son." The kids are literate so she is teaching them something so it could be that the sister just doesn't see the work that is being done. Not like the kids would be doing school stuff when company is over. Sounds like the person who posted this is biased against it and has already built up in her head how she thinks her sister is handling things but doesn't know for sure. My kids will go to public schools for socialization but I plan on most of their learning to take place at home. I skipped more days than I attended and dropped out after the 9th grade. School and me did not mix but I thrived in college and graduated with honors with my Masters, plan on going back next year for my PhD. You can't assume knowledge level based on the type of schooling being done and while I 100% support traditional school over any form of homeschooling, this sounds like she was just being mean rather than concerned.

protonefrid avatar
Popescu Adina
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

She only knows that the oldest one (12) is literate but at 12 being literate is setting the bar real low IMO. Also, the sister offered to 'watch' her kid when they are at work as if that's all she'd had to do if he is "unschooled'... and insisting that her kid be unschooled in the first place is a low move too. So if this mom is mean by saying what she thinks (she might be right too and then the ruined lives of those kids are on her too because she let it be instead of calling the social services), her sister is no saint either if she buts in and insists to get them to unschool their kid.

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izabelaizukulikowska avatar
Isabella
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Ahh, Murrica - the wealtjhiest of third world countries. You go to jail for this where I live - if your kids are not in school or homeschooled - you go to jail. Kids go to foster care. And homeschooling means every semester kid HAVE TO attend normal exam in school [or if disabled - teachers come to you] to prove what they've learned learned.

spazmops19 avatar
Logic and Reason
Community Member
2 years ago

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Oh for Christ’s sake, the US is not a third world country, and saying it is just makes you seem ignorant.

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renskedejonge9 avatar
Flip
Community Member
2 years ago (edited) DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

She may do that? We used to have everyone wise schools, where the kids could decide what they wanted to do. They closed em later. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dxrtKFk-64Y Aren't there special schools for kids with ADHD and such?

melanieking avatar
Axolotl King
Community Member
2 years ago

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Honestly She's in the wrong for not giving her kids proper education but op is in the wrong because it's not Op's decision on how to raise their sisters kids so esh?

dc1 avatar
DC
Community Member
2 years ago

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All those NTA-threads are boring. We get to see one side only, and likely, displayed more in a way appearing reasonable and considerate, rather than truly honest. Pointless - why is this even a thing?

oscurotormenta avatar
R.k. White
Community Member
2 years ago

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Did she ask about the kids' curriculum? Offer to help? The fact that she is their aunt and doesn't know is pretty telling...

onemessylady avatar
Aunt Messy
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

She's got her own kid to raise. Why would she help someone who could solve their own problem by sending her kids to school?

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