Woman Explains The Difference Between How Men And Women View Friendship After Seeing A Humorous Definition For ‘Friendzone’
Tumblr is full of thought, discourse, and discussion. While some of it is providing answers to questions that nobody really needed to know the answers to, like why do dragons have eyes on the sides of their heads if they are predators? (you’re welcome, by the way), there are also deeply rooted and thought-provoking posts considering all manner of very human things.
One Tumblr user had a eureka! moment regarding a tweet that comically described the act of friendzoning and in turn gave a very detailed explanation on how it all actually makes sense. Went viral along the way too.
Relationships are never easy, but that doesn’t stop people from explaining them to make them easier
Image credits: Matthew Bland (not the actual photo)
So, Tumblr user Alara J. Rogers (alarajrogers) stumbled upon a Tumblr post that included a screenshot of two tweets. One read “A woman’s idea of ‘Let just be friends’ is ‘Hey listen to all my problems and keep me company… while I have sex with someone else,’” (sic!).
The other tweet was presented in response to the first one, saying: “So a woman’s idea of being friends is being friends?” For most, this is a comical definition of the act of friendzoning someone, but to Alara, it was a lightbulb moment.
Tumblr user Alara J. Rogers saw this tweet about the friendzone and a light bulb moment occurred
Image credits: alarajrogers
She explains in her post that it all makes sense because it boils down to social and cultural conditioning: men are encouraged to not share their feelings, especially with other men. If anything, on average, they rely—more or less solely—on their romantic partners for that.
Women, on the other hand, are not socialized in a way that forbids them to be expressive when it comes to emotions. Hence, they develop different kinds of relationships, ones that are heavily based on emotional support, i.e. “what friendship is is someone who listens to all your problems and keeps you company.”
She went on to explain how this comical definition of friendzoning and the response to it actually make sense
So, there is now a disconnect whereby men think that sharing emotions is part of a romantic partner package, whereas women think it’s part of a romantic partner, but more importantly, a part of the friends package as well. This thus fools men into thinking there must be something romantic when there isn’t.
In turn, both parties end up confused and perhaps even hurt, at the very least. “So men suffer terribly from being trained in this way. But women suffer in that they can’t reach out to male friends for basic friendship.”
Alara concludes that the only way to fix this is to teach boys it’s OK to show emotions, to love your friends, to express needs and share problems with friends. And once this social norm is eliminated, both genders will benefit from this.
Image credits: alarajrogers
It wasn’t long until the post went viral on Tumblr. It clocked in at over 425,000 notes—Tumblr’s way of registering likes and reblogs. You can find Alara’s post here, but before you go, why not let us know what you thought about this in the comment section below!
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I was expecting this article to be sexist and only correct for a small percentage of men/women. But I think there may be something to this. Certainly, that's the societal expectation and it makes a lot of sense to explain why a guy like the Chef Nol might think/say something that seems so insane to me. It's worth thinking about, at least.
Yeah, as I was reading it, I was thinking "ok, here comes a bunch of superficial BS, lumping 'all men' and 'all women' into unreasonable buckets"... and then as I was reading it, I said "whoa, that's actually a good point"
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Yet another reminder that sexism doesn’t just hurt women, it’s a bad thing for everybody and everybody has a reason to be against it.
Yep! "toxic masculinity" is wrongfully understood by some as "men are toxic", but it's the vision of masculinity we are raised with that is toxic to all who come in contact with it.
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I haven't seen anyone mentioning this, so I thought I would. While this observation is interesting, it is also very heavily based around cishet norms, which makes me wonder how or if it applies to LGBT people. We generally shed heteronormative societal expectations and behave however we see fit, so I'd imagine queer men are more likely to be emotionally available with their male friends and platonic female friends. I'm sure sapphic women are still emotionally available with their friends too. The more interesting question is how might this effect trans people like myself or nonbinary people?
Cis gay guy here. I wouldn't say we are free of heteronormativity/toxic masculinity. We still have been raised in it, and tried really hard to conform to it. Obviously we actively question it, but still I find gay males can be very discreet too about our important feelings. We don't like showing weakness anymore than straight guys. Maybe even less has we often have faced a lot of hostility in our youth.
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Wow, this is actually really well done, I'm impressed. I've never thought about the issue from this angle before, it sounds like it could make a fun study!
I want to do this. I want to be able to be open with my best friend...but I don't know how. It doesn't seem like he's a very emotional person...but I think he thinks the same of me because we've never really talked to each other emotionally. It would be awkward...and I don't know what to do.
Take courage! The first step seems so difficult, but even if it is awkward at first, it will get better and so much easier! If you are right, your friend might in a similar situation and will be grateful for your openness. Just go to him and say: "Hey, this may seem awkward, but can I talk to you about something personal? I need your advice/help/someone to listen to me."
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One thing I would be interested in is a cross-cultural perspective. In many middle eastern countries boys grow up holding hands and are perfectly happy to hug and cry with one another. But do they have a different attitude to friendships (as the author suggests might be possible)? Or is the male way of bonding fairly hardwired?
It's a cultural thing. Men in Europe used to hold hands and cry together as well. The larger problem in tzhe Middle East is probably that men and women can't be seen alone together at all unless they are married. So male/female friendships there face a completely different kind of problem.
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I think this article shows a lot of insight into how men and women think, with one small comment "the friend just wants to get into you pants" - that's not what we want! The whole point is that we are seeking BOTH a deep friendship and a romantic involvement and not one or the other.
Except for the dudes who make it clear they have no interest in women for anything but sex.
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W O W. This is really... wow. Ok, Pandas, I doubt anyone will see this, but if you do, I need advice on this. How do you become FRIENDS with a GUY and ONLY FRIENDS? Do you just straight up tell them when you become friends, "Hey, don't misinterpret anything I do, I only want to be friends, nothing more?" Or.... what? -Help?
In my case, when I met a girl and I only see her as friend, or can't see her as gf, I kindda tell her I have a crush on someone else. If she leaves, she didn't want me as her friend.
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I'm a man, and this speaks to me on so many levels. I've never been emotionally close to my father. I'm 50, he's 76, and I haven't said "I love you" to him since I was a child. We're close - I talk to him at least once a week, and we get along great, but the closest I've come was a recent phone conversation with him and his wife that I ended with "love you all, talk to you soon". On the other hand, I have male friends from high school that I still talk to, and I can very easily say "I love you, man" to them, and they say it back. My son and now I say "I love you" to each other at least once a day. I was (and still am) blessed with many female friends, and they're great to talk to, but I do rely on my wife for most of my emotional support simply because she's the person I am closest to.
This is great and i love it. It also is exactly why i've always had lots of female friends instead of hanging around with other guys. I think it's only half the story, though, at least for people Gen X and older. The part i think it's missing is that, at least in my generation, girls rarely paid attention to guys in any positive way. I can distinctly remember once thinking "holy crap; this girl is actually talking to me! That never happens. She must want to go out!" I've been lucky enough to be able to take the no well and accept the friendship that was offered and to be able to look for it with women myself. It's a super crappy chicken/egg situation of women not reaching out to men because they don't want to give the wrong impression and then men not being able to imagine a woman reaching out to them for friendship because it never happens. it seems to be getting much better and that gives me hope
I think there are some elements of what she is saying that are observable and others that are arguable. I personally think that core element of what she is saying is right, but her surrounding idea is wrong. From what I've seen the "Friend zone" problem does lie with men not being able to express their emotions, but it is the inability to express it to someone they see as a potential partner. Boys and men do not have a problem discussing their feelings with their friends. We operate much in the same way that girls and women do, we support our friends as best we can and, while we may use different (and sometimes toxic) methods, the principle is the same. I think the "friend zone" issue comes from boy not being able to be upfront with a girl about his intentions. He thinks that if he is nice to her, she will see him as a potential partner, so he is nice to her, and friendly but fails to see that he is creating the friendship that he is going to 'get stuck it'.
My personal experience in my boarding school: My friends are dependable. We laugh, we cry, we lend, we borrow, we live, all together. If you had interact with all for quite the time, some of them (sadly not all) become genuinely caring like, well, a family. We only have teachers and friends here: teachers are our fathers, friends are our brothers. Sometimes you can go and cry on your friends or your teachers for once in a while ( Do not make it a regular habit, really. Just once in a while) and share all of your worries, together. What I am saying here is come on, we men are not made with emotion-responding lacrimal gland for no reason. Finding a brother or father figure and sharing problems in a healthy friendship is a legit thing. I do not know if this is just a dorm thing, but hey, we are still male Homo Sapiens like you. So the reality is you do not have to have romantic relationship with the person to spill out your problem, just someone who cares.
All of it sounds pretty obvious but maybe this concept, of emotional support and emotional intelligence in general, needs to be shared much more to make it common knowledge and normal for everyone. There is one point I don't agree with however, which is especially more serious nowadays, and that is that not all women have a network of other women (or friends) they can lean on for emotional support. There are also women who live in emotional isolation. There are also women who struggle to share their emotional needs and seek support in others. There are also women who lack emotional intelligence. Who suffer from depression. Who bottle up their rage and turn into abusers. Who turn to alcoholism or other addictions. Emotional support is a basic human need for everyone and mental health is fragile.
That was very insightful and gives those of us in opposite sex relationships something to think about.
Fantastic, bravo! I have always told my best friends I love them, and still so, I can relate to it!
With a lot of guys myself included there are "friends" and there are "brothers" who are the friends you share stuff with.
I think it is still harder for men to become emotionally engaged with a woman or another man without it becoming a next level relationship. For men when that person is also sexually attractive to the man, it is very difficult to separate the feelings of closeness to a person who is sexually attractive to them with feelings of emotional intimacy. I don't agree that this is always societal - that some of this is actual differences in the chemical anatomy of males/females (testosterone/estrogen) and how it affects the brain.
This goes a long way to explaining why males have generally been so freakin' MEAN to me all my life. I'm not the female that's generally deemed as an "yeah I'd go out with her" - so ... in their SHEER TERROR that I'm coming onto them... they would always choose **exactly** the time when I've chosen to open up to them (thinking this is a way to reach out to a new friend) to be extra callous, or mean. They would purposely choose a time when they can clearly tell I'm going a harsh spot of vulnerability and I'm asking them for help - and they'd pretty much slam the door in my face - with their only thought being "There. Now she clearly knows I have no intention of ever getting with her." Never occurred to them to ask or to think about how traumatizing it was... just the triumph of "Yes! NOW she knows I don't like her LIKE THAT."
When I call a man my friend, I mean that I want him to be my friend, not anything more. It means I trust and respect him and that he is almost like a brother to me.
I'm kinda tired of hearing things like men aren't hurt by sexism. Though I do promote equality, I think it's disgusting that women are learning to be outspoken, empowered, etc. while men are being taught to keep their emotions to themselves to be "manly." If girls aren't taught to be feminine why do boys have to be masculine? This kind of mindset is really toxic.
Why are you putting equality and being disgusted by double standards opposite each other? Feminists have been saying for years that patriarchy hurts men, too, precisely by telling them they can't ever show their emotions lest they be seen as weak. The only healthy way forward is treating everyone equally, giving each child all the possible tools to thrive.
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Some advice for guys needing a community - which is where you look to get friends - is to join organizations, groups, bands, orchestras, choirs, church, even clubs, anything where you see the same time on a regular basis. I did not have friends, most of the ones I had moved away or I moved from them and we lost touch, but I have a lot of friends now from orchestra, a group where we play on the reg (pre-covid) and quartet. I met a lot of folks through my kids but my friends are diverse, kind, and the kind of people I want to be around. Seriously, men need friends but how does he find them? Hang out with people whilst doing what you are interested in, preferably not drinking (like a bar), ideally whilst being active.
I agree whole heartedly. There was a point in my life where I had moved to a new town, away from all my childhood friends. I expected to make some friends there, but I didn't, not even after a couple of years. I was bitterly lonely. Then I joined a club that played board games and I made so many friends I struggle to keep up with them all.
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There's a lot of truth here, but there's also a lot of generalization. The article at once both points out that many men have trouble expressing their emotions(even to their romantic partner), but goes further to say that almost ALL men are this way, thereby reinforcing the very same toxic masculinity it's fighting against. I'm a cishet man, and I have friends, both male and female, that I have real, actual, emotionally honest conversations with. While the guys I'm friends with may have a harder time talking about some things, they will talk if you continue to show interest and support.
While she made some good points, I think this an overgeneralization of the relationship between men and women, based on heteronormative stereotypes. It is also from a neurotypical perspective, and does not seem to think about how autistic people, for example, might relate to someone who is a different gender than them. A lot of what she is saying is based on gender roles taught to us by society. An autistic person might not be aware of such roles, and so they might act differently than she is suggesting.
Sadly sometimes men aren't even allowed to be weak in front of their own parents. They must appear strong all the time. The only time when i can cry is at night in my own room when everyone is asleep at home.
1) First of all, this explanation seems to be extremely "U.S. specific. 2) What can be reflected even from my (central european) perspective, are stated different approaches. From my perspective, women really tend to entangle into "support" emotional webs, flooding their surrounding with numerous waves of shallow emotions, that meet each other in nullifying ignorance, providing zero actual support and plenty oportunities for minor betrayals. On the other side - at least here in Europe - men share their emotions with other men as well, however that sharing is way deeper, is taken way more seriously and thus require way more trust level, that may require tribal affiliation and/or long build-up time. At that point of view, romantic partner is generally viewed as the most trustworthy and thus the only one suitable to epen up with problems exposing what women call "vulnerability", but men use more precise word: "incompetence" So, Chef Nol is at he end correct...
Men play at love to get sex. Women play at sex to get love. People do not say what they mean and others never ask for exactly what they want. Decide what kind of person you are, very few (men and women) present who they really are.
I honestly treat all my friends the same way. I CAN understand how it would be considered as flirting or something, but really I openly give hugs and compliments to all of my friends. Regardless of their gender. And I obviously like sharing my interests and finding like minded people. But whenever I seem to get a guy friend, it turns out they have a crush on me and I usually am the one who gets super uncomfortable about this whole situation. Sure my past doesn't really mean I can just be rude and like, not give dude a chance. But in all of my cases I have had no romantic feelings towards them, and I've always thought they were just my friends. I just feel sad we didn't actually stay in touch after as friends.
I think this is an oversimplification of the “friendzone” issue and a great explanation of the unhealthy emotional management many men are forced to adopt. Nice and interesting. Thanks!
....and then there's the fact that too many men think women are for sex only, because women just aren't good for anything else.
Yeah, every man thinking like that is definitely "one too many".
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this is somewhat correct, but it can be defined further. I have been very friendzoned, even after she openly flirted with me. i built up the courage to make an advance, and she royally flipped me off. it bothered me to the point i am afraid of mistaking an advance for anything, so if a woman flirts with me, i can't tell anymore. not taking the risk of totally embarassing myself again. :(
Flirting is a tricky thing. Some people are very subtle when they flirt and wonder "why doesn't anyone take the hint?" Others are generally friendly to everyone and wonder "why do people always think I'm flirting with them?" My advice? If you are uncertain if someone is flirting with you or not, take some time and watch them interact with others. How does that compare to how they treat you?
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One of the difficulties is that a man presented with an emotional problem by someone, he tries to advise and produce an answer. Often all a woman wants is someone to listen and sympathise not to tell them how they should solve the problem.
Also one of the difficulties for a man is that if he wants just a friendship with a woman she assumes he is sexually interested even if he isn't!
Another difficulty for a man is if he wants just a friendship with a woman she subconsiously assumes he is trying for a sexual relationship even if he isn't!
Yet another thread that goes on about men not feeling, not expressing. That masculine behavior is "TOXIC". News flash, it's not toxic to men. Women may not like the way we behave but we do. There are many things men don't like about the things women do but we do not expect you to act like a man so it's tolerated or even smiled at. But to say it is wrong would be wrong. Women are women, men are men. Stop trying to change us.
I have some sympathy with this position. Male is too often shorthand for 'bad' in conversations about gender. However, what feels normal and natural to men can still hurt us, and insightful articles like this are genuinely helpful for seeing things from the opposite gender's perspective. (Specifically this article, not all boardpanda posts on gender have such merit).
Load More Replies... A whole post based on over-generalisations and unsustained claims with no scientific or statistical basis. If i were to write something like that I'd say that, for example, a lot of married women simply can't have or keep female friends because they're always thinking of them as potential rivals.
I don't know what magical land you live in... but as a middle aged man, this describes 90% of the men I know and have known throughout my life.
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yeah, lined up are all my new toys that i'm gonna have fun with next time im single. this is a single female talking with more guy friends than girls, bs. you cant say im part of that 20 that don't, which you completely pulled that 80 outta your ass, because some of my girl friends are same as me, more guy friends than girls, and they don't have them as just potential partners
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You wouldn't be asking for "proof" if the text claimed the opposite, would you? Besides, this poster never claimed that this was based on some sort of study.
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Guys are people too, they have emotions, they are not just like ticks or lice. (Well, some very particular specimens, but you get the idea.)
Load More Replies... So what exactly do you expect women to do? Not be friends with you at all?
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Why would he believe they're in a romantic relationship? Is there kissing? Touching? Holding hands, and all the other things that come with a "romantic" relationship? This sounds to me *exactly* like the situation that is being described in the article - she believes it to be a friendship, and he believes that it is a relationship and can't understand why she ends up sleeping with someone else. The dude in your scenario is hurt and frustrated because he is reading more into the relationship than is actually there. She is sharing her emotional side with him because that's what women do - that *does not* automatically equal romantic feelings.
Load More Replies... I'm sorry that you don't have a best friend. I certainly can confide in my friends.
Load More Replies... This is complete bullshit. The amound of ugly men I see dating beautiful women is astounding to me. I never see it the other way around. Men are bombarding any woman who dares set foot on a dating website, and usually not in a nice way. Getting tons of messages doesn't mean anything when the majority are rude comments and threats.
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I was expecting this article to be sexist and only correct for a small percentage of men/women. But I think there may be something to this. Certainly, that's the societal expectation and it makes a lot of sense to explain why a guy like the Chef Nol might think/say something that seems so insane to me. It's worth thinking about, at least.
Yeah, as I was reading it, I was thinking "ok, here comes a bunch of superficial BS, lumping 'all men' and 'all women' into unreasonable buckets"... and then as I was reading it, I said "whoa, that's actually a good point"
Load More Replies... Yet another reminder that sexism doesn’t just hurt women, it’s a bad thing for everybody and everybody has a reason to be against it.
Yep! "toxic masculinity" is wrongfully understood by some as "men are toxic", but it's the vision of masculinity we are raised with that is toxic to all who come in contact with it.
Load More Replies... I haven't seen anyone mentioning this, so I thought I would. While this observation is interesting, it is also very heavily based around cishet norms, which makes me wonder how or if it applies to LGBT people. We generally shed heteronormative societal expectations and behave however we see fit, so I'd imagine queer men are more likely to be emotionally available with their male friends and platonic female friends. I'm sure sapphic women are still emotionally available with their friends too. The more interesting question is how might this effect trans people like myself or nonbinary people?
Cis gay guy here. I wouldn't say we are free of heteronormativity/toxic masculinity. We still have been raised in it, and tried really hard to conform to it. Obviously we actively question it, but still I find gay males can be very discreet too about our important feelings. We don't like showing weakness anymore than straight guys. Maybe even less has we often have faced a lot of hostility in our youth.
Load More Replies... Wow, this is actually really well done, I'm impressed. I've never thought about the issue from this angle before, it sounds like it could make a fun study!
I want to do this. I want to be able to be open with my best friend...but I don't know how. It doesn't seem like he's a very emotional person...but I think he thinks the same of me because we've never really talked to each other emotionally. It would be awkward...and I don't know what to do.
Take courage! The first step seems so difficult, but even if it is awkward at first, it will get better and so much easier! If you are right, your friend might in a similar situation and will be grateful for your openness. Just go to him and say: "Hey, this may seem awkward, but can I talk to you about something personal? I need your advice/help/someone to listen to me."
Load More Replies... One thing I would be interested in is a cross-cultural perspective. In many middle eastern countries boys grow up holding hands and are perfectly happy to hug and cry with one another. But do they have a different attitude to friendships (as the author suggests might be possible)? Or is the male way of bonding fairly hardwired?
It's a cultural thing. Men in Europe used to hold hands and cry together as well. The larger problem in tzhe Middle East is probably that men and women can't be seen alone together at all unless they are married. So male/female friendships there face a completely different kind of problem.
Load More Replies... I think this article shows a lot of insight into how men and women think, with one small comment "the friend just wants to get into you pants" - that's not what we want! The whole point is that we are seeking BOTH a deep friendship and a romantic involvement and not one or the other.
Except for the dudes who make it clear they have no interest in women for anything but sex.
Load More Replies... W O W. This is really... wow. Ok, Pandas, I doubt anyone will see this, but if you do, I need advice on this. How do you become FRIENDS with a GUY and ONLY FRIENDS? Do you just straight up tell them when you become friends, "Hey, don't misinterpret anything I do, I only want to be friends, nothing more?" Or.... what? -Help?
In my case, when I met a girl and I only see her as friend, or can't see her as gf, I kindda tell her I have a crush on someone else. If she leaves, she didn't want me as her friend.
Load More Replies... I'm a man, and this speaks to me on so many levels. I've never been emotionally close to my father. I'm 50, he's 76, and I haven't said "I love you" to him since I was a child. We're close - I talk to him at least once a week, and we get along great, but the closest I've come was a recent phone conversation with him and his wife that I ended with "love you all, talk to you soon". On the other hand, I have male friends from high school that I still talk to, and I can very easily say "I love you, man" to them, and they say it back. My son and now I say "I love you" to each other at least once a day. I was (and still am) blessed with many female friends, and they're great to talk to, but I do rely on my wife for most of my emotional support simply because she's the person I am closest to.
This is great and i love it. It also is exactly why i've always had lots of female friends instead of hanging around with other guys. I think it's only half the story, though, at least for people Gen X and older. The part i think it's missing is that, at least in my generation, girls rarely paid attention to guys in any positive way. I can distinctly remember once thinking "holy crap; this girl is actually talking to me! That never happens. She must want to go out!" I've been lucky enough to be able to take the no well and accept the friendship that was offered and to be able to look for it with women myself. It's a super crappy chicken/egg situation of women not reaching out to men because they don't want to give the wrong impression and then men not being able to imagine a woman reaching out to them for friendship because it never happens. it seems to be getting much better and that gives me hope
I think there are some elements of what she is saying that are observable and others that are arguable. I personally think that core element of what she is saying is right, but her surrounding idea is wrong. From what I've seen the "Friend zone" problem does lie with men not being able to express their emotions, but it is the inability to express it to someone they see as a potential partner. Boys and men do not have a problem discussing their feelings with their friends. We operate much in the same way that girls and women do, we support our friends as best we can and, while we may use different (and sometimes toxic) methods, the principle is the same. I think the "friend zone" issue comes from boy not being able to be upfront with a girl about his intentions. He thinks that if he is nice to her, she will see him as a potential partner, so he is nice to her, and friendly but fails to see that he is creating the friendship that he is going to 'get stuck it'.
My personal experience in my boarding school: My friends are dependable. We laugh, we cry, we lend, we borrow, we live, all together. If you had interact with all for quite the time, some of them (sadly not all) become genuinely caring like, well, a family. We only have teachers and friends here: teachers are our fathers, friends are our brothers. Sometimes you can go and cry on your friends or your teachers for once in a while ( Do not make it a regular habit, really. Just once in a while) and share all of your worries, together. What I am saying here is come on, we men are not made with emotion-responding lacrimal gland for no reason. Finding a brother or father figure and sharing problems in a healthy friendship is a legit thing. I do not know if this is just a dorm thing, but hey, we are still male Homo Sapiens like you. So the reality is you do not have to have romantic relationship with the person to spill out your problem, just someone who cares.
All of it sounds pretty obvious but maybe this concept, of emotional support and emotional intelligence in general, needs to be shared much more to make it common knowledge and normal for everyone. There is one point I don't agree with however, which is especially more serious nowadays, and that is that not all women have a network of other women (or friends) they can lean on for emotional support. There are also women who live in emotional isolation. There are also women who struggle to share their emotional needs and seek support in others. There are also women who lack emotional intelligence. Who suffer from depression. Who bottle up their rage and turn into abusers. Who turn to alcoholism or other addictions. Emotional support is a basic human need for everyone and mental health is fragile.
That was very insightful and gives those of us in opposite sex relationships something to think about.
Fantastic, bravo! I have always told my best friends I love them, and still so, I can relate to it!
With a lot of guys myself included there are "friends" and there are "brothers" who are the friends you share stuff with.
I think it is still harder for men to become emotionally engaged with a woman or another man without it becoming a next level relationship. For men when that person is also sexually attractive to the man, it is very difficult to separate the feelings of closeness to a person who is sexually attractive to them with feelings of emotional intimacy. I don't agree that this is always societal - that some of this is actual differences in the chemical anatomy of males/females (testosterone/estrogen) and how it affects the brain.
This goes a long way to explaining why males have generally been so freakin' MEAN to me all my life. I'm not the female that's generally deemed as an "yeah I'd go out with her" - so ... in their SHEER TERROR that I'm coming onto them... they would always choose **exactly** the time when I've chosen to open up to them (thinking this is a way to reach out to a new friend) to be extra callous, or mean. They would purposely choose a time when they can clearly tell I'm going a harsh spot of vulnerability and I'm asking them for help - and they'd pretty much slam the door in my face - with their only thought being "There. Now she clearly knows I have no intention of ever getting with her." Never occurred to them to ask or to think about how traumatizing it was... just the triumph of "Yes! NOW she knows I don't like her LIKE THAT."
When I call a man my friend, I mean that I want him to be my friend, not anything more. It means I trust and respect him and that he is almost like a brother to me.
I'm kinda tired of hearing things like men aren't hurt by sexism. Though I do promote equality, I think it's disgusting that women are learning to be outspoken, empowered, etc. while men are being taught to keep their emotions to themselves to be "manly." If girls aren't taught to be feminine why do boys have to be masculine? This kind of mindset is really toxic.
Why are you putting equality and being disgusted by double standards opposite each other? Feminists have been saying for years that patriarchy hurts men, too, precisely by telling them they can't ever show their emotions lest they be seen as weak. The only healthy way forward is treating everyone equally, giving each child all the possible tools to thrive.
Load More Replies... Some advice for guys needing a community - which is where you look to get friends - is to join organizations, groups, bands, orchestras, choirs, church, even clubs, anything where you see the same time on a regular basis. I did not have friends, most of the ones I had moved away or I moved from them and we lost touch, but I have a lot of friends now from orchestra, a group where we play on the reg (pre-covid) and quartet. I met a lot of folks through my kids but my friends are diverse, kind, and the kind of people I want to be around. Seriously, men need friends but how does he find them? Hang out with people whilst doing what you are interested in, preferably not drinking (like a bar), ideally whilst being active.
I agree whole heartedly. There was a point in my life where I had moved to a new town, away from all my childhood friends. I expected to make some friends there, but I didn't, not even after a couple of years. I was bitterly lonely. Then I joined a club that played board games and I made so many friends I struggle to keep up with them all.
Load More Replies... There's a lot of truth here, but there's also a lot of generalization. The article at once both points out that many men have trouble expressing their emotions(even to their romantic partner), but goes further to say that almost ALL men are this way, thereby reinforcing the very same toxic masculinity it's fighting against. I'm a cishet man, and I have friends, both male and female, that I have real, actual, emotionally honest conversations with. While the guys I'm friends with may have a harder time talking about some things, they will talk if you continue to show interest and support.
While she made some good points, I think this an overgeneralization of the relationship between men and women, based on heteronormative stereotypes. It is also from a neurotypical perspective, and does not seem to think about how autistic people, for example, might relate to someone who is a different gender than them. A lot of what she is saying is based on gender roles taught to us by society. An autistic person might not be aware of such roles, and so they might act differently than she is suggesting.
Sadly sometimes men aren't even allowed to be weak in front of their own parents. They must appear strong all the time. The only time when i can cry is at night in my own room when everyone is asleep at home.
1) First of all, this explanation seems to be extremely "U.S. specific. 2) What can be reflected even from my (central european) perspective, are stated different approaches. From my perspective, women really tend to entangle into "support" emotional webs, flooding their surrounding with numerous waves of shallow emotions, that meet each other in nullifying ignorance, providing zero actual support and plenty oportunities for minor betrayals. On the other side - at least here in Europe - men share their emotions with other men as well, however that sharing is way deeper, is taken way more seriously and thus require way more trust level, that may require tribal affiliation and/or long build-up time. At that point of view, romantic partner is generally viewed as the most trustworthy and thus the only one suitable to epen up with problems exposing what women call "vulnerability", but men use more precise word: "incompetence" So, Chef Nol is at he end correct...
Men play at love to get sex. Women play at sex to get love. People do not say what they mean and others never ask for exactly what they want. Decide what kind of person you are, very few (men and women) present who they really are.
I honestly treat all my friends the same way. I CAN understand how it would be considered as flirting or something, but really I openly give hugs and compliments to all of my friends. Regardless of their gender. And I obviously like sharing my interests and finding like minded people. But whenever I seem to get a guy friend, it turns out they have a crush on me and I usually am the one who gets super uncomfortable about this whole situation. Sure my past doesn't really mean I can just be rude and like, not give dude a chance. But in all of my cases I have had no romantic feelings towards them, and I've always thought they were just my friends. I just feel sad we didn't actually stay in touch after as friends.
I think this is an oversimplification of the “friendzone” issue and a great explanation of the unhealthy emotional management many men are forced to adopt. Nice and interesting. Thanks!
....and then there's the fact that too many men think women are for sex only, because women just aren't good for anything else.
Yeah, every man thinking like that is definitely "one too many".
Load More Replies... this is somewhat correct, but it can be defined further. I have been very friendzoned, even after she openly flirted with me. i built up the courage to make an advance, and she royally flipped me off. it bothered me to the point i am afraid of mistaking an advance for anything, so if a woman flirts with me, i can't tell anymore. not taking the risk of totally embarassing myself again. :(
Flirting is a tricky thing. Some people are very subtle when they flirt and wonder "why doesn't anyone take the hint?" Others are generally friendly to everyone and wonder "why do people always think I'm flirting with them?" My advice? If you are uncertain if someone is flirting with you or not, take some time and watch them interact with others. How does that compare to how they treat you?
Load More Replies... One of the difficulties is that a man presented with an emotional problem by someone, he tries to advise and produce an answer. Often all a woman wants is someone to listen and sympathise not to tell them how they should solve the problem.
Also one of the difficulties for a man is that if he wants just a friendship with a woman she assumes he is sexually interested even if he isn't!
Another difficulty for a man is if he wants just a friendship with a woman she subconsiously assumes he is trying for a sexual relationship even if he isn't!
Yet another thread that goes on about men not feeling, not expressing. That masculine behavior is "TOXIC". News flash, it's not toxic to men. Women may not like the way we behave but we do. There are many things men don't like about the things women do but we do not expect you to act like a man so it's tolerated or even smiled at. But to say it is wrong would be wrong. Women are women, men are men. Stop trying to change us.
I have some sympathy with this position. Male is too often shorthand for 'bad' in conversations about gender. However, what feels normal and natural to men can still hurt us, and insightful articles like this are genuinely helpful for seeing things from the opposite gender's perspective. (Specifically this article, not all boardpanda posts on gender have such merit).
Load More Replies... A whole post based on over-generalisations and unsustained claims with no scientific or statistical basis. If i were to write something like that I'd say that, for example, a lot of married women simply can't have or keep female friends because they're always thinking of them as potential rivals.
I don't know what magical land you live in... but as a middle aged man, this describes 90% of the men I know and have known throughout my life.
Load More Replies... yeah, lined up are all my new toys that i'm gonna have fun with next time im single. this is a single female talking with more guy friends than girls, bs. you cant say im part of that 20 that don't, which you completely pulled that 80 outta your ass, because some of my girl friends are same as me, more guy friends than girls, and they don't have them as just potential partners
Load More Replies... You wouldn't be asking for "proof" if the text claimed the opposite, would you? Besides, this poster never claimed that this was based on some sort of study.
Load More Replies... Guys are people too, they have emotions, they are not just like ticks or lice. (Well, some very particular specimens, but you get the idea.)
Load More Replies... So what exactly do you expect women to do? Not be friends with you at all?
Load More Replies... Why would he believe they're in a romantic relationship? Is there kissing? Touching? Holding hands, and all the other things that come with a "romantic" relationship? This sounds to me *exactly* like the situation that is being described in the article - she believes it to be a friendship, and he believes that it is a relationship and can't understand why she ends up sleeping with someone else. The dude in your scenario is hurt and frustrated because he is reading more into the relationship than is actually there. She is sharing her emotional side with him because that's what women do - that *does not* automatically equal romantic feelings.
Load More Replies... I'm sorry that you don't have a best friend. I certainly can confide in my friends.
Load More Replies... This is complete bullshit. The amound of ugly men I see dating beautiful women is astounding to me. I never see it the other way around. Men are bombarding any woman who dares set foot on a dating website, and usually not in a nice way. Getting tons of messages doesn't mean anything when the majority are rude comments and threats.
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