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Man Opens Up About Unspoken Struggles Men Face, And 330,000+ People On Twitter Agree
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Social Issues4 years ago

Man Opens Up About Unspoken Struggles Men Face, And 330,000+ People On Twitter Agree

More and more people today are speaking up about negative aspects of the stereotypical expectations of masculinity on boys and men. Twitter user Absurdistwords decided to contribute to this conversation by highlighting the importance of acknowledging that men often face the same problems as women, such as emotional trauma, depression, eating disorders and unrealistic expectations. However, our culture doesn’t immediately acknowledge these struggles thus preventing men from getting the help they need to recover. Absurdistwords explains in his viral thread the concept of toxic masculinity and how it affects people’s lives.

Inspired by this thread, Imgur user BeorcKano decided to share his heartbreaking experience of growing up with a father who encouraged self-destructive behavior for the sake of being masculine. “It wasn’t until I started deconstructing my own behaviors and reactions that I started looking into the effects of striving to be hyper-masculine on my own mental and emotional well-being. I realized most of my concepts of what a “man” was supposed to come from a very broken person,” he told Bored Panda.

BeorcKano says that his family was not the only place where this kind of behavior manifested. “Most often I saw examples of my father’s behavior in many of the working class men of his generation. I was raised up around the labor industries, like roofing, logging, lumber mills, construction, remodeling, metalwork, so on and so forth, and most of the men that I ended up associating with were the same in many aspects. There was a nearly mandatory ‘hazing’ period of any new employees, especially the young men, where their ‘manliness’ was consistently called into question or tested with personal conflicts, posturing, insults, and general disrespect.” he says.

The man admits that his life took a better turn once he began reflecting on his childhood and realized what impact the pressure of being hyper-masculine had on him. “I realized that I exhibited many of the signs of being toxic in my level of masculinity, where my ego and image took precedence over the right thing to do. I was so concerned with making sure I never appeared weak or ‘un-manly’ that it was a significant impairment to admitting that I even had a problem to begin with. It’s like admitting that I wasn’t strong enough to withstand my lot in life, that I wasn’t a real man. Real men didn’t feel like this. I was an imposter, a fraud, and unworthy of the things I did have. This created a kind of cycle of anger and depression that fed itself and, coupled with my anxiety and C-PTSD, caused a pretty uncontrolled downward spiral.”

When asked what else he could say on the subject, BeorcKano said “I guess my final bit would be that just like nobody is saying that every single man is a serial rapist, and not every single man is a physically or emotionally abusive monster, well, not every single man suffers from toxic masculinity. It takes a deep level of honest introspective, a sort of selfless look at how your actions are affecting the men, women, boys, and girls in your life. Are you treating the women in your life as equals? Are the men in your life sources of unhealthy competition? Are you just ‘toughening up’ the boys in your life, and for what reason? Are you serving as an example to the girls in your life as to what to look for in a loving, supporting, emotionally available and mentally healthy partner? If you can honestly, truthfully say yes to these things without slanting your assessment in your favor because of ego or pride, then great! If not, well, then I think one might need to take a moment and evaluate where you can grow and improve as a person.”

More info: twitter.com

After a 15-year-old Brent Conner tweeted about struggles men face that are often overlooked, it sparked a conversation about a toxic masculinity

Twitter user Absurdistwords decided to contribute to this conversation by offering his insight on this important topic

He then created another thread to explain the concept of toxic masculinity

Inspired by this thread Imgur user BeorcKano decided to share his heartbreaking experience

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Marina Rios
Community Member
4 years ago

This poor man is suffering and unburdening his soul, telling a harrowing life story and all these comments... well the lack of compassion basically proves him right. Empathy is free, assholes.

Dilly Millandry
Community Member
4 years ago

I was rather shocked as well. Read this terrible story, totally got the concept of toxic masculinity - all the 'man up' rubbish people spout Parents telling their little boys that they shouldn't cry as Real Men don't. Be A Big Brave Boy... Makes absolute sense to me. That crap is toxic for boys. Yet people are instantly down just because they don't like a few repeated key phrases or the PLATFORM or their Twitter name? FFS We shouldn't be teaching half the population that being silent is being tough. That crying is for girls. Why do men have tear-ducts if it's just for girls? Whoosh - apparently the important message here has gone over a lot of people's heads.

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Parmeisan
Community Member
4 years ago

Wow, don't skip the post by BeorcKano. That's some real crazy sh*t he went through, and some good lessons to take out of it. Learning how to change your mind and be a better person? *That* takes strength.

La Petite Morte
Community Member
4 years ago

His reply to all of the comments on this article is even better.

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Zenozenobee
Community Member
4 years ago

I'm not sure it's something I wan't to read on BP put I read the comments. Toxic masculinity exist, men do not need more masculinity, they need, as women need, to express who they are without being judged. My son has a father, present in our life, a good father and man. Yet my son being 4yo has already experiment this toxic masculinity. My stepfather trying to forbid him to play with the stroller because it's for girl (fathers never use stroller, it's well known), asking him to cut his hair for he does'nt "look manly enough", my mother and all the people that ever told him he shouldn't cry when he hurt himself ("that what girls do"). The girl that did'nt allow him to play with the dinette at school... I could go on. Stereotypes sucks, a woman can refuse to shave, have little or huge boobs, long or short hair, be nurse or bus driver, well, men too. Men are not different from women, every man and every woman is different, no one should feel untitled to decide for other people.

Darryl Kerrigan
Community Member
4 years ago

Message for C; in the UK they've just passing a unisex physical fitness test for people serving on the front line. If you pass the test you're in, regardless of gender.

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Night Owl
Community Member
4 years ago

"Just be better people, ffs. Better to yourself, and better to everyone around." To anyone who doesn't want to bother or doesn't have time to read the whole thing (or to just skip through the main parts) if nothing else, at least take that with you.

Daria B
Community Member
4 years ago (edited)

And this, dear ladies and gentlemen, is exactly why we need gender equality (or feminism). Toxic masculinity and gender roles are harmful for both sides (and more). It's just that, as mentioned in the article, boys are being taught to shup up about their struggles. Please, men and boys, do talk about it, this way we can all work together as a society to bring real improvements towards real freedom, the kind of freedom which includes mutual respect and general empathy.

Agnes Jekyll
Community Member
4 years ago

Absolutely. Patriarchy confines, hobbles, limits men too. Men need to be supported; they need to be allowed to feel, to talk, to hurt. Allowing this will make the world a better place

BeorcKano
Community Member
4 years ago

Hey. BeorcKano here. I just want to say to the men in this comment string, honestly, guys, nobody is saying that it's toxic to be masculine at all, definitely not me. I enjoy my video games, I enjoy my first-person-shooters. I'm manly with my wife, I grow a beard, I grunt enthusiastically over tools, I have a woodshop, I can weld, hunt, fish, build houses or sheds or whatever, I can carve or shape steel, I've run a forge, I enjoy watching (older) UFC, and there's nothing quite like a stiff whiskey. Toxic masculinity doesn't mean that you like manly things or do manly activities or generally enjoy stereotypically masculine things. Toxic masculinity is when the desire to be perceived as masculine or strong or whatever is so powerful that is overrides compassion, self care, or your ability to develop and use healthy coping mechanisms. (1/continued)

BeorcKano
Community Member
4 years ago

To say that being manly is in and of itself toxic is ridiculous. However, how many of you have forced yourself to drink beer with your friends because you didn't want to appear 'weak' or whatever? How many of you were teased for preferring wine coolers because they were sweeter and had less alcohol, and were thus 'girly' drinks? How many of you avoid using decorations in your house that aren't stereotypically masculine? You know what? I like flowers. I really do. I love roses and violets and jasmine and geraniums (lilies are a pain in the ass). I don't need to cover my walls with antlers and mounted heads of my kills. I don't need to only have wood panel walls. All of my clothing doesn't need to be black or cammo. You know what? I have a navy blue suit, and I bought a bright pink shirt to go with my wife's formal gown, and I look fantastic in it. (2/continued)

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lakitha tolbert
Community Member
4 years ago

I feel so bad for that last man. That’s horrible child abuse and neglect. It’s even worse that he was brainwashed into neglecting his own emotional and mental health. The suicide rate in America is astronomical. It accounts for the most gun deaths in this country, more than mass shootings, more than crime. Men just have shorter life spans than women, and toxic masculinity accounts for almost all of the reasons why. Men killing themselves, and killing and harming each other and everyone else is the result of toxic masculinity.

Claire A.
Community Member
4 years ago

Yeah, that was a lot to go through as a child. No kid should have to perform their own medical interventions because their parent thinks it's a sign of weakness for them to go the the doctor or dentist.

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Littoface
Community Member
4 years ago

Everyone hurts. We want equality but refuse to stop thinking about issues from a gendered perspective.

Dara
Community Member
4 years ago (edited)

"Everybody hurts... somehow..." by R.E.M. should've entered our minds and made camp there... boys hurt and we should respect it and not dismiss it like it's nothing or less important. #peace

Marie-Christine Lemieux
Community Member
4 years ago

Wow! This article is amazing! Thank you, each of you: one for exposing these truths and the other for sharing such a horrifying story. And I'm sure there are many out there with similar stories. I pray all of you find the right people (Doctors, psychiatrists, or other) to pull you out of that darkness.

Grace Barclay
Community Member
4 years ago

Thank you to the men that have opened up and admitted to themselves that they need help in dealing with all the nonsense they had to go through. I am a woman and I am a feminist. I know that men have been damaged by patriarchy and toxic masculinity. Time we all understood that we are all HUMAN BEINGS - HOMO SAPIENS SAPIENS - first and last. A man's soul can be broken just as easily as a woman's. A man can suffer from a broken heart (literally & figurately) like a woman. Again, thank you

Flisey
Community Member
4 years ago

Men are different from women, their physiology is different and their brains work differently. But we both share emotions, they don't belong to just one gender.

Random Panda
Community Member
4 years ago

Sorry, but "brain sex" was disproved some time ago. Men and women's brains don't work differently, it's all about how we're socialized.

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Parmeisan
Community Member
4 years ago

A lot of people in the comments seem to be misunderstanding what "toxic masculinity" means. It does NOT mean that masculinity is itself toxic. It is simply a rejection of the idea that men have to masculine and masculine has to mean repressing emotions. And it means that boys can be harmed by that idea as well. People who talk about toxic masculinity just want everybody to be happy being themselves, WHATEVER that means to you. (More here: https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Toxic%20Masculinity)

Hugo Raible
Community Member
4 years ago

As "Full Name" says, many feminists are using it wrong. Thus, I think we should find a different wording for it. "Toxic expections for men", for example.

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April Simnel
Community Member
4 years ago (edited)

Emotions are how we take the temperature of our lives, how we learn of there's something throwing us off of our equilibrium. It's an insult and a grave injury to anyone's humanity to teach children to ignore their emotions and to equate feelings with "weakness" (and to equate women with "weakness", but that's a topic for another day). Sure, toxic masculinity benefits some people, but it causes more pain, anger and wasted time and lives; its effects are exponential. We must work together to change these ideas. They haven't worked for the peace and prosperity of the world in the aggregate.

SnowyLynx
Community Member
4 years ago

Before reading this i never would have thought of this as a problem, but as I read it I realized that even I had some negative experiences with toxic Masculinity. I realized that I find it hard to socialize due to the fact that I was taught that girls are meant to be silly and emotional, while us guys have to help them and be strong so others could see us and feel safe. But I think this helped me realize the importance of telling someone and being social again. Thanks Bored Panda!

Leo Domitrix
Community Member
4 years ago

So much about this rings true... Toxic masculinity is bad for males, females, and whatever lies between or near. It's about *all of us*. Save lives, save souls, by allowing *personhood* without the bloody stupid blue-pink masculine-feminine cliche-stereotype poisons injected in childhood.

La Petite Morte
Community Member
4 years ago

Funnily enough, less than 100 years ago pink was considered a boy's color, it was the color of virility and masculinity because...well...to be blunt, the penis is pink-ish and when hard is even more pink. Therefore, since what could be more manly than an erect penis. Blue was considered a soft, nurturing color (the color of sky, flowers, birds) and therefore very feminine. Someday I want to research why the shift in perception of color changed to pink=feminine and blue=masculine.

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Margaret Althea Elvenshadow
Community Member
4 years ago

He is completely right! As a feminist, I believe that men and women should be treated equally. This means that I think there should be domestic violence shelters for women AND for men.

BetsyB
Community Member
4 years ago

I really like the way he wrote this.

KT Trondsen
Community Member
4 years ago

Christ his dad was a nasty nightmare. I feel terrible for him :( I also grew up living in fear from my fathers unpredictable explosive anger. Beatings happened when you least expected it. Luckily I have grown up and have a fmaily of my own who i love and encourage talk about emotions. I would never raise a finger to my kids, and when I do get angry inside with them I remind myself I do not want to repeat what happened to me. I am so glad you saught the help you needed

Kim Lorton
Community Member
4 years ago

I think he is absolutely right. Boys aren’t born like hardened men. What if men decided o talk about their feelings and we all listened, and all around d the world, this happened. War might go away, and a pissing contest was just that, how far cam you pee? No one is entitled to anything, anywhere. We are all equal, and if we wake up each day, it’s because God wasn’t ready to take us. Lift life as if it’s a gift! You will find friends, everywhere, and men that share their feelings, will rule themselves and stop trying to rule the world.

Nostalgic Hyena
Community Member
4 years ago

I can't believe some feminists have the nerve to say "But men don't have problems" or "Women are more oppressed" or "All men suck". I'm ready to show them this post.

ThatJeremyKid
Community Member
4 years ago

Men have just as many emotional issues, body image problems, mistreatment issues and etcetera and these should be voiced and ok. That being said, men ARE losing masculinity. People just misuse the word masculinity.

Tao
Community Member
4 years ago

I couldn't read this article entirely. The fact twittwr is used to write huge article makes thing really hard to read. Why don't they just create a blog and share the link on twitter instead...

WhiteFox
Community Member
4 years ago

the one thing i really hate is we only ever get to hear one side of the story but not the other half in this world. but im so glad that you have said your story but this is horrible your childhood and what had happened but i hope you are better. this is bullshit when they say that women are weak and men are strong.

Biljana Malesevic
Community Member
4 years ago

I have seen so so much of this toxic masculinity on internet that I am afraid who are those people full of hate that walk and live around us? It's scary to be a woman too, when you know such people exist and they could be anywhere. I have a daughter, so that scares me even more. What is even scarier is that I have seen so many such horrible "messages" written all over the town I live in. So much violence in those. Both genders feel threatened, believe me. What could be somewhat consoling is that I believe these "toxic" men are huge minority, but there are many who mimic them because they feel they need too, they will be ridiculed maybe even hurt. So this issue should be very public. Men should be like they want to be, not forced to follow the heard.

Ben Smith
Community Member
4 years ago

I'm going to leave this thread with this: we need to let boys be boys and girls be girls. More importantly, we need to let people be people. If I boy wants to cry, fine. If a girl wants to play in the dirt and cut her hair short, fine. However, if a boy DOES NOT cry and wants to play football and hunt, that's fine too. And if a girl wants to be a princess and wear cute jeans THAT'S OK TOO. We have to stop forcing old social norms on our kids, but we also need to stop pushing the new ones too. Just let them be and stop pushing your own bullshit on them. *Mic drop* bye.

Bob 2.0
Community Member
4 years ago

Huh, not sure why your comment got so downvoted. Seems like an actual decent opinion.

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Elaine16
Community Member
4 years ago

My heart goes out to BeorcKano and I thank him for having the courage to tell his story. One of the comments said that BP is not the place for this sort of material. I disagree most emphatically. Until we eliminate this cruelty from our society it should be publicized wherever and whenever possible. Too many people don't know, don't understand, or want to sweep it under the rug. This is abuse, plain and simple. It should have no place in our world.

Caroline Driver
Community Member
4 years ago

Oh, I just want to cheer from the rooftops! I don't know how long toxic masculinity has been around, centuries I guess, and even I come from a generation who grew up with these 'masculine' ways, this was how men were, even now I find it kind of strange seeing a man with a baby in a carrier, my dad wouldn't have been seen dead doing that; but also from a generation who were starting to think, well this may be the way, but I don't like it. Now, at last, people, men, are starting to think that they don't like it either, and what's more make changes and realise that it doesn't turn them into a woman (god forbid!) or make them gay. Please let it continue, let male celebrities that other men look up to speak out, without it being called bandwagoning or promoting their latest film. If social media manages to help change this aggressive macho outlook, then it will have earned its keep.

Nora AlMeida
Community Member
4 years ago

To the guy who wrote that long comment and thought no one will read it, I, among several others, have. He dealt with situations in a truly terrifying way, and needlessly so, just because of this problem of toxic masculinity. I am glad he’s doing better, and that he’s helping others be informed.

pusheen buttercup
Community Member
4 years ago

damn. hope he's doing better :)

cwa92464
Community Member
4 years ago

How about this for both sides: Life is hard. Don't be a dick.

MistyCat
Community Member
1 year ago

EVERYFUCINGBODY SUFFERS!!! PEOPLE NEED TO BE KIND!!!! JUST BECAUSE YOU'RE SUFFERING DOESN'T MEAN SOMEBODY ELSE ISNT!!!

Beguiled panda
Community Member
4 years ago

Great article...I wish I could upvote it 100 times.

Brent Kaufman
Community Member
4 years ago

I came to this page with the same compassion and sympathy and desire to be part of the solution and from what I see here, if this group is representative of their faction or party or gang, I want nothing to do with them. Whining from beginning to end about males and it's all their fault and finger pointing which was obviously more satisfying than actually dealing with the real issues of boys in pain. Lots of moral posturing and repeating the lines and terms and the big "aaawwwwww.... Did those big bad men cause this? Well of course they did honey. Always remember that and also that the first step on the road to fixing the problem is realizing it's someone else's fault." Human nature, which includes things like human collective behavior and men's and women's roles and behavior and much more, developed through evolution and nature just like it did for every species in the animal kingdom. Things change slowly, always. That's human nature too.

Hugo Raible
Community Member
4 years ago

BeorcKano did a much better job of explaining what these toxic expections for males are and how they arise than the other guy absurdistwords who was mainly throwing SJW buzzwords around and twisted the boys legitimate tweet into an attack on men.

Claire A.
Community Member
4 years ago

This is just a general response to some of the comments I've been reading on this thread. I agree, with most respondents, that the example at the end of the main article was almost definitely child abuse, but brought on by what that particular father determined "masculinity" to mean, at least by what the writer described. I don't agree that toxicity is entirely a "leftist" term just as "radical feminist" is not entirely a right wing term. I think women can enjoy traditionally male hobbies and display emotional strength without needing to be labeled "butch" or a "Tom Boy" and men can show compassion and sympathy without being labeled "weak" or "girly." Biologically, yes, men and women are different, but they can still enjoy things that the opposite sex likes. I think you can tell a child to be brave and also comfort them, these are not mutually exclusive. I also think it's hard to convey opinions on a comment thread because it's easy to misunderstand someone.

Miss Cris
Community Member
4 years ago

This is why feminism is for everybody: we fight for new masculinities, too. <3

Hugo Raible
Community Member
4 years ago

(Toxic) feminism is guilty of giving masculinity itself a bad sound. We don't need that kind of feminism, we need a new, more inclusive, feminism.

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Vincent Smith Charron
Community Member
4 years ago

I'm all for discussing toxic masculinity, but I do wonder why he doesn't make parallel post about toxic femininity.. I mean he even mentions that women can abuse men Although it seems when people mention toxic femininity, people just blame men

BeorcKano
Community Member
4 years ago

There was a time where I felt very much the same. "What about where men don't get custody of their children nearly as often in court cases? What about the draft? What about the fact that men are expected to do the dangerous jobs where we die at insanely higher rates? What about our suicide rates? What about what about what about..." The reason why I don't and won't speak out about toxic femininity is that, as a heterosexual white man, honestly, my experiences and outlooks do not line up with what women, people of color, or the LGBT community goes through. I have -never- been followed in a store because of my skin color. I have -never- been expected to give sex in exchange for a dinner date. I have -never- been marginalized because of who I chose to love. However, I have experienced the destructive force of toxic hypermasculine expectations. I -can- speak about that without drowning out or silencing the voices of others. (1/continued)

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Mont
Community Member
4 years ago

People who use the phrase Toxic Masculinity are part of the problem. There's nothing toxic about masculinity. It's a very good thing. Some men are evil and some women are evil and all people are sinners. Masculinity makes the world a better and safer place for all people.

Brent Kaufman
Community Member
4 years ago

The group-think is strong on BP.

Whatevers not taken
Community Member
4 years ago

This comment has been deleted.

Bob 2.0
Community Member
4 years ago

Oof. You do realize that if you bothered to read the damn article, you'd know that you're part of the fucking problem? Or maybe you're just trying to make troll comments. Either way, shut it.

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Rachelle
Community Member
4 years ago

I'm sorry - I know this is an unpopular opinion, but the last story is NOT "toxic" masculinity. It is straight up abuse. There is NOTHING wrong with expressing one's masculinity as a male, just as there is nothing wrong with displaying traditional femininity as a woman. This is not to say that a man should be shamed for displaying his feelings - far from it. Any evolved individual knows the importance of acknowledging their emotions. The message that I think "C" and "Ben Smith" are trying to convey is that at our core men and women are genetically different and cannot be lumped into one category together. They acknowledge the importance of expressing masculinity, while deposing the leftist term being applied to it ("toxic"). For those preaching the value of empathy, perhaps you should stop being so hypocritical and EMPATHIZE with them as well.

Agnes Jekyll
Community Member
4 years ago

that's not what the article is saying. Please read what BeorcKano just said

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Vi Cky
Community Member
4 years ago

In the world there's just bad and good people

Marnee DeRider
Community Member
4 years ago

Humans have the most complicated brains and the highest capacity of emotion. Do we see fish and crocodiles with depth of feeling? No. I don't understand any of the various groups that try to push being emotionless as being somehow expected or superior to others. There are also people who think being emotional is "illogical", and that is also a very illogical and hurtful attitude. (Logical thought processes should also incorporate all relevant facts. That humans have emotions is a fact.) Why should we be like crocodiles, unfeeling and cold? We did not evolve that way.

Kizito
Community Member
4 years ago

Why am I sitting here reading this guy's tweets again? We ain't even friends. BP be tripping sometimes.

Bella
Community Member
4 years ago

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The first post, boy needs to learn to spell. Also, we never said that boys don't get those issues. So, I don't know who you socialize with or have said that to you but at least I know that guys have same issues... Almost. Its still different cause its different types of reasons behind the same kind of issues. Hopefully u get what I mean.

John Smith
Community Member
4 years ago

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Toxic femininity everywhere!

Full Name
Community Member
4 years ago

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BP has the strangest commenters. The mob is definitely anti-vegan, yet very pro with the concept of "toxic masculinity". I thought both of those things usually come from the same sorts of circles. Interesting. The fact my original comment was so awful you have to click on it to see it makes me giggle, if I'm being perfectly honest. The triggering to mere opinion is very telling.

Miguel Angel
Community Member
4 years ago

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So, if a man suffers, or is abused by a woman ... let's blame it on the 'patriarchy'. Someone stop this madness.

Agnes Jekyll
Community Member
4 years ago

Read the article--men's lives are shortened and damaged because of societal roles--like a man must never feel pain, complain, cry, suffer.

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Vonskippy
Community Member
4 years ago

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This comment has been deleted.

Anouk
Community Member
4 years ago

And here we have the exact example of what's being discussed. Telling kids, or anyone, for that matter, that it's actually ok to cry when you're hurt, whether physically or emotionally, is not creating a society of entitled snowflakes. It's breaking that stereotype image where certain groups of people in particular have been brought up EXACTLY as you are describing. 'Grow the fuck up!' 'Quit whining and grow a pair' 'Shit happens - get over it!'. Did you not understand the story at all? It's people like you who ARE the problem, you moron.

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Josh Abrey
Community Member
4 years ago

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But what about when you meet other guys that are just sooooooo useless because they didn't figure out how to be manly as a child. Learning how to deal with physical pain ain't bad. While your dad's practices were pretty fuckin' brutal, I must say, learning how to just stitch yourself up to keep working is pretty badass. I don't see that as toxic, the doc's gonna do the same thing, but its gonna take multiple hours out of the work day. I shot a 3 inch nail through my thumb one time, wrapped it in electrical tape. and worked the rest of the day, before telling anyone. HARDCORE AF! My dad though, had an emotional side, though, and was a councilor and knew how to raise his kids to be well balanced, but still man! Some things your ol' man taught you was pretty hardcore, but yeah, damaging too

Bob 2.0
Community Member
4 years ago

Sometimes you aren't being "hardcore". You're just being a dumbass. That nail wound could've gotten infected. Also, the fact that his dad invited his friends over to each him kick the shit out of his son- stuff like that kinda overrules the "hardcore" things.

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EvilDinosaur
Community Member
4 years ago

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‘Boys go through this stuff too’ yeah! Let’s talk about that. ‘Not just girls’- unyeah. You don’t get to throw girls under the bus just because you’re talking about how toxic masculinity hurts men. ‘Boys get self esteem issues too’ is a complete sentence. If you have to add ‘too’ you’re an asshole who’s trying to encroach on women’s discourse. Other than that, this is a point that was made (not well but still) (also you can complain that boys have self esteem issues too but at least if they don’t fulfill societal expectations they’re still treated like human beings)

Notsoswift
Community Member
4 years ago

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toxic masculinity doesn't exist unless you also say toxic femininity also exists, which it doesn't.

Caroline Espenschied
Community Member
4 years ago

Yes it does. Everywhere. All around. And it's driving us totally nuts. In fact, toxic feminity is everything beginning with "A woman should..." or "Women are..."

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chi-wei shen
Community Member
4 years ago

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It has nothing to do with "toxic masculinity" or the "patriarchy". These things do not exist in reality. They are a feminist inventions to further their agenda and spit their hate for men all over us. What is described in this article is the effect of bad people/bad parents on boys. Here you can read about bad men but this is one-sided. There is at least the same number of wicked and abusive mothers and other women and no-one calls it "toxic femininity". Just skip the term "toxic masculinity" completely and call it what it is no matter whether the perpetrator is a man or a woman: This behavior is EVIL and nothing else.

anarkzie
Community Member
4 years ago

Chi the whole argument is going over your head, suicide rates amoung men are far higher than women pretty much around the world, partly down to the fact that as men we do not talk about our issues add to that, we mostly live in societies that look down on men who try to talk about their issues, this notion of shuting up and just getting on with it is what this guy is talking about as the toxic side of masuline society(what is being refered to here as the patriarchy) it's not about bad men, but societal views on the role a man should play in said society, which can come from women as well men, example a bad mum telling her son that he's a man and that he should man up over something that is effecting him on an emotional level etc. Women challenged their roles, we as men are only starting to do the same.

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Dom Hunt
Community Member
4 years ago

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why wont the short black man shut up?

Bob 2.0
Community Member
4 years ago

Why won't the short racist piece of shit white (I'm assuming here, I have no idea what race you are) man shut up? You ain't helping anyone here, muchacho. Just making the situation worse.

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Full Name
Community Member
4 years ago

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Well that sure contained a lot of buzzwords and phrases. My favourite was "Boys are not born patriarchal", haha. This was written by someone whose twitter handle contains their race, gender and size (hello identity politics) so I'm not overly surprised it went down a "toxic" rabbit hole.

Alia G.
Community Member
4 years ago

Boys really aren't born patriarchal though. There definitely IS a patriarchy, but men are not one big unit of toxic masculinity.

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Little Menace
Community Member
4 years ago

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Considering men don't hunt for food any longer, don't want [they need to though] to fight for their country or protect women [yes we are weaker physically and can't fight as well, pus we lack testosterone], I guess it should be ok that they also cry and play with barbies and try on dresses if they so wish. But remember with crying and generally opening up your weak side, others will perceive you like weaker sex [like us women have been called forever, and physically they are spot on]. With that I'm afraid comes also ceaning the house, washing and ironing and washing up too. You can't have your [natural masculinity] swapped for yoga soy boy images and not take on the other downsides that come with showing your weaknesses. Uh-uh. Here are the pink rubber gloves and a bucket. Get scrubbing, you can't have your cake and eat it boys, . Who is protecting us [weak ones] now? Oh yes, the masculine men.

Carrie de Luka
Community Member
4 years ago

What a sad response. How lacking in understanding of the issues under discussion.

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Ben Smith
Community Member
4 years ago

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Twitter novels are obnoxious, no matter how important the subject matter.

John Smith
Community Member
4 years ago

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There is no such thing as toxic masculinity. PC bullshit.

Daria B
Community Member
4 years ago (edited)

Personal computers don't care about genders and politics. ♥

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Sue Wistell
Community Member
4 years ago

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This is not "toxic masculinity", that doesn;t even sodding exist. Toxic masculinity is another one of those bullshit buzzwords to blame men for their own problems. Depression is a killer in men because their SYMPTOMS ARE DIFFERENT as a start. These issues have not been "feminised" and men don't think feelings are girly, the common issue that unites a lot of men's problems is the LACK OF FATHERS. Men need a male role model in their lives and our laws are proudly taking them away from boys and destroying male spaces.Men are not to blame for their own problems, there is no "toxic masculinity", men need MORE masculinity!

Dilly Millandry
Community Member
4 years ago

How does more masculinity help Sue? Seriously. What laws are proudly taking fathers away from boys and destroying male spaces? I really don't understand the points you are making.

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Marina Rios
Community Member
4 years ago

This poor man is suffering and unburdening his soul, telling a harrowing life story and all these comments... well the lack of compassion basically proves him right. Empathy is free, assholes.

Dilly Millandry
Community Member
4 years ago

I was rather shocked as well. Read this terrible story, totally got the concept of toxic masculinity - all the 'man up' rubbish people spout Parents telling their little boys that they shouldn't cry as Real Men don't. Be A Big Brave Boy... Makes absolute sense to me. That crap is toxic for boys. Yet people are instantly down just because they don't like a few repeated key phrases or the PLATFORM or their Twitter name? FFS We shouldn't be teaching half the population that being silent is being tough. That crying is for girls. Why do men have tear-ducts if it's just for girls? Whoosh - apparently the important message here has gone over a lot of people's heads.

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Parmeisan
Community Member
4 years ago

Wow, don't skip the post by BeorcKano. That's some real crazy sh*t he went through, and some good lessons to take out of it. Learning how to change your mind and be a better person? *That* takes strength.

La Petite Morte
Community Member
4 years ago

His reply to all of the comments on this article is even better.

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Zenozenobee
Community Member
4 years ago

I'm not sure it's something I wan't to read on BP put I read the comments. Toxic masculinity exist, men do not need more masculinity, they need, as women need, to express who they are without being judged. My son has a father, present in our life, a good father and man. Yet my son being 4yo has already experiment this toxic masculinity. My stepfather trying to forbid him to play with the stroller because it's for girl (fathers never use stroller, it's well known), asking him to cut his hair for he does'nt "look manly enough", my mother and all the people that ever told him he shouldn't cry when he hurt himself ("that what girls do"). The girl that did'nt allow him to play with the dinette at school... I could go on. Stereotypes sucks, a woman can refuse to shave, have little or huge boobs, long or short hair, be nurse or bus driver, well, men too. Men are not different from women, every man and every woman is different, no one should feel untitled to decide for other people.

Darryl Kerrigan
Community Member
4 years ago

Message for C; in the UK they've just passing a unisex physical fitness test for people serving on the front line. If you pass the test you're in, regardless of gender.

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Night Owl
Community Member
4 years ago

"Just be better people, ffs. Better to yourself, and better to everyone around." To anyone who doesn't want to bother or doesn't have time to read the whole thing (or to just skip through the main parts) if nothing else, at least take that with you.

Daria B
Community Member
4 years ago (edited)

And this, dear ladies and gentlemen, is exactly why we need gender equality (or feminism). Toxic masculinity and gender roles are harmful for both sides (and more). It's just that, as mentioned in the article, boys are being taught to shup up about their struggles. Please, men and boys, do talk about it, this way we can all work together as a society to bring real improvements towards real freedom, the kind of freedom which includes mutual respect and general empathy.

Agnes Jekyll
Community Member
4 years ago

Absolutely. Patriarchy confines, hobbles, limits men too. Men need to be supported; they need to be allowed to feel, to talk, to hurt. Allowing this will make the world a better place

BeorcKano
Community Member
4 years ago

Hey. BeorcKano here. I just want to say to the men in this comment string, honestly, guys, nobody is saying that it's toxic to be masculine at all, definitely not me. I enjoy my video games, I enjoy my first-person-shooters. I'm manly with my wife, I grow a beard, I grunt enthusiastically over tools, I have a woodshop, I can weld, hunt, fish, build houses or sheds or whatever, I can carve or shape steel, I've run a forge, I enjoy watching (older) UFC, and there's nothing quite like a stiff whiskey. Toxic masculinity doesn't mean that you like manly things or do manly activities or generally enjoy stereotypically masculine things. Toxic masculinity is when the desire to be perceived as masculine or strong or whatever is so powerful that is overrides compassion, self care, or your ability to develop and use healthy coping mechanisms. (1/continued)

BeorcKano
Community Member
4 years ago

To say that being manly is in and of itself toxic is ridiculous. However, how many of you have forced yourself to drink beer with your friends because you didn't want to appear 'weak' or whatever? How many of you were teased for preferring wine coolers because they were sweeter and had less alcohol, and were thus 'girly' drinks? How many of you avoid using decorations in your house that aren't stereotypically masculine? You know what? I like flowers. I really do. I love roses and violets and jasmine and geraniums (lilies are a pain in the ass). I don't need to cover my walls with antlers and mounted heads of my kills. I don't need to only have wood panel walls. All of my clothing doesn't need to be black or cammo. You know what? I have a navy blue suit, and I bought a bright pink shirt to go with my wife's formal gown, and I look fantastic in it. (2/continued)

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