This Veteran’s Rant About Arming Teachers Is Going Viral, And Everyone Must Read It
Stoneman Douglas High School and other recent mass shootings across the US have reignited the debate about the gun situation in America. In the wake of this, President Donald Trump has talked about arming the teachers. “Armed Educators (and trusted people who work within a school) love our students and will protect them. Very smart people,” Trump tweeted, and added “Must be firearms adept & have annual training. Should get yearly bonus. Shootings will not happen again – a big & very inexpensive deterrent. Up to States.” In the huge crowd of responses, one impassioned rant by Jim Wright, a veteran with over 20 years of military experience, stands out as an emotional and in-depth argument against this plan. Scroll down to read his case and let us know if you agree with him in the comments!
More info: Twitter
President Donald Trump has talked about arming the teachers, but a veteran with 20 years of military experience thinks it’s a bad idea
What do you think?
The idea of arming teachers is the final piece of evidence to show how F****D America is right now.
Incredible, isn't it? And how many people are actually FOR that insane idea! I also love how someone is called 'fragile' for asking perfectly reasonable questions about practicalities. But then it is the country where people believe you should just 'nuke' hurricanes and shoot at tornados. Oh and where a whole town voted against a solar panel plant because it steals the energy from the sun from the plants. We really live in the Age of Stupid.
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This is very well phrased. it’s a shame that this is even something that needs to be discussed, but at least there are people like this who are able to explain it so frankly. There are already to many stories of teachers who have hurt kids, (my sister had her mouth duct taped shut by a substitute the other day) and there WILL be more casualties if teachers are armed!
Indeed, I'm not American and don't fully understand this issue, nor how the gun laws in general work, but I've always thought about how there are plenty of teachers who already do some seriously abusive handling of students - often not even for discipline, just because they didn't like a student - and the schools turn a blind eye to all that, when they don't encourage it... imagine that kind of teacher being armed.
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I've always thought it was a bad idea to arm someone who has one of the most stressful, underpaid and unappreciated jobs in the world. They can't even screen good enough to keep sexual predators out of teaching positions. How are they supposed to make sure that the teachers they train are not mentally "fragile" to the point that they won't snap and become the shooter?
This is a perfect response to why arming educators is such a bad idea. I'm not a teacher but I work in a school system. ALL of the teachers I support have mentioned that IF an active shooter situation were to happen at our schools, we would all be more likely to try to talk the shooter down as opposed to use a weapon against them. The personality that drives a person to join the military is drastically different from the personality that drives a person to become teachers. We don't want to be badass, we want to help kids. I would much rather modify the buildings so they stop any bullets inside and out than deal with any weapons in the building other than the police.
Exactly. Locally they are doing "ALICE" training (giving active shooter training that includes shooting back) and most morons forget that even the TRAINED cops at Columbine didn't know who the shooters were, nor at Parkland did cops enter the building to do a thing. How can we expect untrained people loaded with fear and adrenaline make decisions that need to be made by those who know what they are doing. And even then they f**k up. No one is taking away your f*****g guns, idiots, it's that we don't need military grade weapons accessible to every tom, d******d, and harry.
From Wikipedia: "The Dunblane school massacre took place at Dunblane Primary School near Stirling, Stirlingshire, Scotland, on 13 March 1996, when Thomas Hamilton shot dead 16 children and one teacher before killing himself. It remains the deadliest mass shooting in British history. Public debate about the killings centred on gun control laws, including public petitions calling for a ban on private ownership of handguns and an official inquiry, which produced the 1996 Cullen Reports. In response to this debate, two new Firearms Acts were passed, which outlawed private ownership of most handguns in Great Britain." Since 1996, no more school shootings occurred in Great Britain. Please, mr. Trump, do your homework!
ikr! it isnt so bad where i live in america but i can understand
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This has changed my mind on the issue of teachers with guns entirely. Why don't we just require metal detectors in schools?
They do in some schools. But the question becomes: who pays for that? My high school hardly had the money to keep the lights on. Now how much are these detectors going to cost the school? It's definitely a great option, but it isn't feasible everywhere, unfortunately. I'm really glad this feed changed your mind on the topic. The more minds we have coming up with the solutions, the more likely we are to find one!
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The most effective option is banning guns. No guns, no shootings. There's no arguing that.
Let us not forget the teachers who died in the last shoot-out. These teachers were protecting their children in the only way they knew how to. These teachers gave their lives shielding the unprotected. If they had a gun... what would have happened? They wouldn't have used it because there were too many other innocent pupils around. It is not in the nature of a teacher to handle a warzone. Please, teachers should be protected from idiots who think they can teach with a gun. And, RIP, and respect these hero teachers.
Stonekettle should be a mandatory advisor to Trump. What if teachers have guns, especially in high school, we know how many adolescents can be a pest to teachers without them meaning real harm. We know how many teachers are on the brink of a mental break down. Weapons can never be an answer. Checking out the adolescents who are falling out with special educated forces is a much better answer. And, by the way, adding marine skills to a teacher who is already overworked, would that be fair?
I'm not american, so i know other realitys without guns. But these are logical questions that most people with a fair common sense would do!
why the excuse that the "right to bear arms" is THE one and only constitutional right worth enshrining? Just because it was allowed in the 1700's does not make it appropriate for modern society. The same constitution promoted the ownership of slaves and a myriad of other behaviours completely unacceptable today.
NO-ONE should be able to purchase killing machinery without very legitimate reasons - a license - ie - the applicant has not yet killed anyone is a joke
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Do many Americans actually support the idea of arming the teachers? Arming the teachers is like the most backward solution to ever been thought of regarding this issue. Nevertheless, it's the issue of the Americans, so...
I personally don't know one person who supports this or thinks it's a remotely intelligent or well thought-out idea. Honestly, I'm guessing the only people who do support this are Fox News watching Trump supporters.
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I confess I don't know the answer but arming teachers somehow reminds me of that slogan, " Killing for peace is like f*****g for chastity. " There's gotta be a saner way.
All of this are valuable information but firstly why is there no tight gun laws in place? But then again the " Right to bear arms" in the Constitution itself defeats this whole ideas and issues. Guns and psychologically challenged humans don't mix.. but the Gun lobby feels all is well as God intended. Good for business it is!
Wow, way to mischaracterize an important thread. This was not a rant. This was a well considered series of questions that we really do need to be asking. Also, did you read the whole thing before you decided that he was against the idea? I mean he specifically said he's neither for, nor against, arming teachers without the answers to these questions.
Brilliant. Everything I've wondered but without knowing how to ask. Thank you
I actually did a project on this topic with this point of view at school
This is a good thread but a chill ran down my spine when he said other country's dead children are accepted as collateral damage because you know, "War" and in the next sentence he was appalled if it happened to "American kids".
So killing foreign child in a war zone is "collateral damage " and it's Ok but killing a deranged murdering teen is not. NOBODY SHOULD BE OK WITH KILLING ANY CHILD. The Dunblane school massacre that took place at Dunblane Primary School near Stirling, Stirlingshire, Scotland, on 13 March 1996, when Thomas Hamilton shot dead 16 children and one teacher before killing himself led to guns being banned in private hands. If the UK can learn from such an awful tragedy why can't America?
Finally! A thorough and experienced overview of this matter. You do not solve this problem with flippant knee-jerk answers...words with no responsibility...essentially ignoring the problem. The author is spot on...answer the goddamned questions!
That's as good of a verbal beatdown as I've ever seen. 10/10. People get cranky when you ask tough but very real-world questions to people with an ideology. Usually they just get angry back instead of answering them. Good on this guy. I don't doubt his nickname ain't "Fragile".
I think the veteran is dead on target, pardon the expression. He asks every single question we need to ask and *answer*. This is a slide into the abyss on so-called good intentions.
I m certain that I wouldnt feel safe at school if the teachers are required to carry weapons
adding more guns to the equation wont solve anything maybe even make it worse
This is what I have been arguing against also! Mr. Marmalade isn't a military man by any means and has NO FLIPPING IDEA how to enforce, let alone enact, such a command. What an A hole he is, what a moron! Thank you!
How are these people getting into the schools to begin with? Aren't their locking doors that can't be opened front the outside? I know all of my school's doors prevented people from entering from outside and you had to use an intercom to contact the office to tell them why you were there and you could be seen from a window in the office so you could show your identification. I also had to carry a student ID on me at all times. Why aren't these simple measures being taken? It seems to me this would prevent at least SOME attacks!
Most of these attacks are by the students themselves. The whole point of school is to let the kids in, meaning you may have let a shooter in. It's also why I'm against the "hide until the all clear" method of lockdown. If there is a shooter, GET OUT! He/she may have done the lockdown training with you and know exactly where you're hiding! Metal detector issues have already been discussed earlier in this thread as well.
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Well put Sir, I don't think any of your points have even been considered!
This is stupid, once someone starts shooting innocent people, they lost their right to be viewed as an American or an innocent child. They are a killer, and no matter how compassionate the teacher is, the shooter needs to be stopped without hesitation. A shooter is looking to inflict maximum casualties in the quickest time, so they wont choose a school with armed teachers. They will go to the "gun-free" zone so that they will have as little resistance as possible.
THIS May well be the single most intelligent and thought provoking post in the history of bored panda! Amazing, simply amazing!
The general atmosphere of "hardening" schools reminds me of a blog exchange I had. This guy was bragging about he was ready to have a shootout with home invaders and would never run away, nor have his family do so. I pointed out that bullets go through walls and his family would be behind those walls. His answer was that he would use bullets that wouldn't penetrate walls (drywall, really? only nerf bullets would fail to penetrate). I next asked him how he'd get the home invaders to do the same. I never heard from him again, but I bet he's still drooling over the prospect of a home invasion. If you can run, then run.
Somebody already is. https://distributedsecurity.com/start-here/public-schools.html
The last one who should be inspired by Oprahs giveaways, is Trump...You get a gun! You get a gun! Everyone gets a gun!
Renate Stargardt It would take years to work through all these points, to find solutions and answers and all the measures that would be needed to implement this (completely idiotic) idea of Trump and his "fans" !!! And it would be great for Trump to say that they are working on a solution and the NRA can continue to sell weapons freely to anyone who seems to be a bit normal!
He's a vet, so he must have valid points! ... Right!? We have no problem trusting cops with guns in crowded urban areas. If an officer is sufficient, then police-level training is sufficient. A non-professional trained to the professional level that we accept is therefore trained with adequate specificity. Actually, we do train soldiers to kill high-school-aged children, because they’re no different to engage mechanically. Psychologically, it’s only slightly different from engaging an adult. We don’t have 12-year-olds bringing guns to school. We have 15-to-18-year-olds doing it. Not understanding how marginal the scenario’s specific problems are shows how unqualified Stonekettle is on this topic. Surely, he knows better than those who do train often and study violence because his tweets are going around and support the narrative.
Regarding the legal question: what if any citizen is judged unfit. Can they sue to change the government? Who is the final arbiter? Can I get a second legal opinion? Who will pay for the court costs to allow citizens their individual rights? Why is a simple act of self-defense a “tactical” situation? They answer to the law. There is no commanding officer. They are private agents of their own self-defense just as they are with every other action. It’s called “adult responsibility.”
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Wow, ONE whole time a guard MAY have stopped people from killing! That definitely saves the thousands that are murdered each year.
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Because it's even harder,even for trained ones,to shoot among innocent civilians..that's why he said even in the warzone,it cause many ptsd.mishaps happen,it will be even worse in a school.that's what i understand from the post.
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No. Guns are the problem. Never the solution. Nutjobs get guns because laws are too lax.
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No. No one needs to be armed. Guns are what's causing the killing. More guns always equals more gun violence.
Load More Replies... The idea of arming teachers is the final piece of evidence to show how F****D America is right now.
Incredible, isn't it? And how many people are actually FOR that insane idea! I also love how someone is called 'fragile' for asking perfectly reasonable questions about practicalities. But then it is the country where people believe you should just 'nuke' hurricanes and shoot at tornados. Oh and where a whole town voted against a solar panel plant because it steals the energy from the sun from the plants. We really live in the Age of Stupid.
Load More Replies... This is very well phrased. it’s a shame that this is even something that needs to be discussed, but at least there are people like this who are able to explain it so frankly. There are already to many stories of teachers who have hurt kids, (my sister had her mouth duct taped shut by a substitute the other day) and there WILL be more casualties if teachers are armed!
Indeed, I'm not American and don't fully understand this issue, nor how the gun laws in general work, but I've always thought about how there are plenty of teachers who already do some seriously abusive handling of students - often not even for discipline, just because they didn't like a student - and the schools turn a blind eye to all that, when they don't encourage it... imagine that kind of teacher being armed.
Load More Replies... I've always thought it was a bad idea to arm someone who has one of the most stressful, underpaid and unappreciated jobs in the world. They can't even screen good enough to keep sexual predators out of teaching positions. How are they supposed to make sure that the teachers they train are not mentally "fragile" to the point that they won't snap and become the shooter?
This is a perfect response to why arming educators is such a bad idea. I'm not a teacher but I work in a school system. ALL of the teachers I support have mentioned that IF an active shooter situation were to happen at our schools, we would all be more likely to try to talk the shooter down as opposed to use a weapon against them. The personality that drives a person to join the military is drastically different from the personality that drives a person to become teachers. We don't want to be badass, we want to help kids. I would much rather modify the buildings so they stop any bullets inside and out than deal with any weapons in the building other than the police.
Exactly. Locally they are doing "ALICE" training (giving active shooter training that includes shooting back) and most morons forget that even the TRAINED cops at Columbine didn't know who the shooters were, nor at Parkland did cops enter the building to do a thing. How can we expect untrained people loaded with fear and adrenaline make decisions that need to be made by those who know what they are doing. And even then they f**k up. No one is taking away your f*****g guns, idiots, it's that we don't need military grade weapons accessible to every tom, d******d, and harry.
From Wikipedia: "The Dunblane school massacre took place at Dunblane Primary School near Stirling, Stirlingshire, Scotland, on 13 March 1996, when Thomas Hamilton shot dead 16 children and one teacher before killing himself. It remains the deadliest mass shooting in British history. Public debate about the killings centred on gun control laws, including public petitions calling for a ban on private ownership of handguns and an official inquiry, which produced the 1996 Cullen Reports. In response to this debate, two new Firearms Acts were passed, which outlawed private ownership of most handguns in Great Britain." Since 1996, no more school shootings occurred in Great Britain. Please, mr. Trump, do your homework!
ikr! it isnt so bad where i live in america but i can understand
Load More Replies... This has changed my mind on the issue of teachers with guns entirely. Why don't we just require metal detectors in schools?
They do in some schools. But the question becomes: who pays for that? My high school hardly had the money to keep the lights on. Now how much are these detectors going to cost the school? It's definitely a great option, but it isn't feasible everywhere, unfortunately. I'm really glad this feed changed your mind on the topic. The more minds we have coming up with the solutions, the more likely we are to find one!
Load More Replies... The most effective option is banning guns. No guns, no shootings. There's no arguing that.
Let us not forget the teachers who died in the last shoot-out. These teachers were protecting their children in the only way they knew how to. These teachers gave their lives shielding the unprotected. If they had a gun... what would have happened? They wouldn't have used it because there were too many other innocent pupils around. It is not in the nature of a teacher to handle a warzone. Please, teachers should be protected from idiots who think they can teach with a gun. And, RIP, and respect these hero teachers.
Stonekettle should be a mandatory advisor to Trump. What if teachers have guns, especially in high school, we know how many adolescents can be a pest to teachers without them meaning real harm. We know how many teachers are on the brink of a mental break down. Weapons can never be an answer. Checking out the adolescents who are falling out with special educated forces is a much better answer. And, by the way, adding marine skills to a teacher who is already overworked, would that be fair?
I'm not american, so i know other realitys without guns. But these are logical questions that most people with a fair common sense would do!
why the excuse that the "right to bear arms" is THE one and only constitutional right worth enshrining? Just because it was allowed in the 1700's does not make it appropriate for modern society. The same constitution promoted the ownership of slaves and a myriad of other behaviours completely unacceptable today.
NO-ONE should be able to purchase killing machinery without very legitimate reasons - a license - ie - the applicant has not yet killed anyone is a joke
Load More Replies... Do many Americans actually support the idea of arming the teachers? Arming the teachers is like the most backward solution to ever been thought of regarding this issue. Nevertheless, it's the issue of the Americans, so...
I personally don't know one person who supports this or thinks it's a remotely intelligent or well thought-out idea. Honestly, I'm guessing the only people who do support this are Fox News watching Trump supporters.
Load More Replies... I confess I don't know the answer but arming teachers somehow reminds me of that slogan, " Killing for peace is like f*****g for chastity. " There's gotta be a saner way.
All of this are valuable information but firstly why is there no tight gun laws in place? But then again the " Right to bear arms" in the Constitution itself defeats this whole ideas and issues. Guns and psychologically challenged humans don't mix.. but the Gun lobby feels all is well as God intended. Good for business it is!
Wow, way to mischaracterize an important thread. This was not a rant. This was a well considered series of questions that we really do need to be asking. Also, did you read the whole thing before you decided that he was against the idea? I mean he specifically said he's neither for, nor against, arming teachers without the answers to these questions.
Brilliant. Everything I've wondered but without knowing how to ask. Thank you
I actually did a project on this topic with this point of view at school
This is a good thread but a chill ran down my spine when he said other country's dead children are accepted as collateral damage because you know, "War" and in the next sentence he was appalled if it happened to "American kids".
So killing foreign child in a war zone is "collateral damage " and it's Ok but killing a deranged murdering teen is not. NOBODY SHOULD BE OK WITH KILLING ANY CHILD. The Dunblane school massacre that took place at Dunblane Primary School near Stirling, Stirlingshire, Scotland, on 13 March 1996, when Thomas Hamilton shot dead 16 children and one teacher before killing himself led to guns being banned in private hands. If the UK can learn from such an awful tragedy why can't America?
Finally! A thorough and experienced overview of this matter. You do not solve this problem with flippant knee-jerk answers...words with no responsibility...essentially ignoring the problem. The author is spot on...answer the goddamned questions!
That's as good of a verbal beatdown as I've ever seen. 10/10. People get cranky when you ask tough but very real-world questions to people with an ideology. Usually they just get angry back instead of answering them. Good on this guy. I don't doubt his nickname ain't "Fragile".
I think the veteran is dead on target, pardon the expression. He asks every single question we need to ask and *answer*. This is a slide into the abyss on so-called good intentions.
I m certain that I wouldnt feel safe at school if the teachers are required to carry weapons
adding more guns to the equation wont solve anything maybe even make it worse
This is what I have been arguing against also! Mr. Marmalade isn't a military man by any means and has NO FLIPPING IDEA how to enforce, let alone enact, such a command. What an A hole he is, what a moron! Thank you!
How are these people getting into the schools to begin with? Aren't their locking doors that can't be opened front the outside? I know all of my school's doors prevented people from entering from outside and you had to use an intercom to contact the office to tell them why you were there and you could be seen from a window in the office so you could show your identification. I also had to carry a student ID on me at all times. Why aren't these simple measures being taken? It seems to me this would prevent at least SOME attacks!
Most of these attacks are by the students themselves. The whole point of school is to let the kids in, meaning you may have let a shooter in. It's also why I'm against the "hide until the all clear" method of lockdown. If there is a shooter, GET OUT! He/she may have done the lockdown training with you and know exactly where you're hiding! Metal detector issues have already been discussed earlier in this thread as well.
Load More Replies... Well put Sir, I don't think any of your points have even been considered!
This is stupid, once someone starts shooting innocent people, they lost their right to be viewed as an American or an innocent child. They are a killer, and no matter how compassionate the teacher is, the shooter needs to be stopped without hesitation. A shooter is looking to inflict maximum casualties in the quickest time, so they wont choose a school with armed teachers. They will go to the "gun-free" zone so that they will have as little resistance as possible.
THIS May well be the single most intelligent and thought provoking post in the history of bored panda! Amazing, simply amazing!
The general atmosphere of "hardening" schools reminds me of a blog exchange I had. This guy was bragging about he was ready to have a shootout with home invaders and would never run away, nor have his family do so. I pointed out that bullets go through walls and his family would be behind those walls. His answer was that he would use bullets that wouldn't penetrate walls (drywall, really? only nerf bullets would fail to penetrate). I next asked him how he'd get the home invaders to do the same. I never heard from him again, but I bet he's still drooling over the prospect of a home invasion. If you can run, then run.
Somebody already is. https://distributedsecurity.com/start-here/public-schools.html
The last one who should be inspired by Oprahs giveaways, is Trump...You get a gun! You get a gun! Everyone gets a gun!
Renate Stargardt It would take years to work through all these points, to find solutions and answers and all the measures that would be needed to implement this (completely idiotic) idea of Trump and his "fans" !!! And it would be great for Trump to say that they are working on a solution and the NRA can continue to sell weapons freely to anyone who seems to be a bit normal!
He's a vet, so he must have valid points! ... Right!? We have no problem trusting cops with guns in crowded urban areas. If an officer is sufficient, then police-level training is sufficient. A non-professional trained to the professional level that we accept is therefore trained with adequate specificity. Actually, we do train soldiers to kill high-school-aged children, because they’re no different to engage mechanically. Psychologically, it’s only slightly different from engaging an adult. We don’t have 12-year-olds bringing guns to school. We have 15-to-18-year-olds doing it. Not understanding how marginal the scenario’s specific problems are shows how unqualified Stonekettle is on this topic. Surely, he knows better than those who do train often and study violence because his tweets are going around and support the narrative.
Regarding the legal question: what if any citizen is judged unfit. Can they sue to change the government? Who is the final arbiter? Can I get a second legal opinion? Who will pay for the court costs to allow citizens their individual rights? Why is a simple act of self-defense a “tactical” situation? They answer to the law. There is no commanding officer. They are private agents of their own self-defense just as they are with every other action. It’s called “adult responsibility.”
Load More Replies... Wow, ONE whole time a guard MAY have stopped people from killing! That definitely saves the thousands that are murdered each year.
Load More Replies... Because it's even harder,even for trained ones,to shoot among innocent civilians..that's why he said even in the warzone,it cause many ptsd.mishaps happen,it will be even worse in a school.that's what i understand from the post.
Load More Replies... No. Guns are the problem. Never the solution. Nutjobs get guns because laws are too lax.
Load More Replies... No. No one needs to be armed. Guns are what's causing the killing. More guns always equals more gun violence.
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