50 People Are Sharing The Signs That Made Them Realize They Were Raised By Toxic Parents
It's not unusual to have a more or less complicated relationship with your parents. After all, they're human just like you, navigating the same complex feelings and emotions. However, there's a line between familial disagreement and toxic behavior. And Reddit user snoofle-science wanted to find it.
So they made a post on the platform, asking its users to share what signs have they noticed indicate that their moms and dads were lousy caregivers. From not being able to show affection to desperate attention cravings, here are some of the most popular problems that people attribute to their upbringing.
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You feel intimidated by everyone around you, you feel like you're never good enough for anyone, no matter how much they tell you that you don't need to try so hard, and you generally have low self-worth.
Edit: Wow. I don't know whether to feel encouraged that so many people know where I’m coming from with this, or heartbroken about it. Either way, thank you, everyone.
ah. okay. i’m.. a little concerned for myself now, as i relate to all of these.
A second chance to do it better when you have kids. Every time I got angry or upset with my own children, I would take a breath and think about what my mom would do—and then do the exact opposite. Lots of laughter and forgiveness in our house and zero violence. My mantra has always been “there is value in a bad example.”
Doing everything yourself, not asking for help, because you knew no help was coming.
Never believing a compliment. Always being anxious that people are mad at you/ignoring you if they're being quiet/not responding. Not being able to deal with confrontation/conflict in a constructive/healthy way.
Basically you get shitty people skills and emotional damage.
Over-explain the tiniest issues because of a compulsive need to justify every thought, action or inaction
You can't identify your own emotions immediately, or sometimes at all, but can identify others without them having to say a word. Don't know how to react to things in the moment, and are extremely mature for your age. Mature kids often aren't a result of great parenting.
i cannot say enough how true this is. i’ve wondered why i am always so uncomfortable if i am unable to read someone, and this really explains it.
I had to sneak out of the house through my bedroom window to go to school and take my finals because my mom locked my room from the outside. This was punishment because I wouldn’t do the dishes because I was cramming for my exams. To top it off after she locked me in my room she went to the breaker and turned off the lights to my bedroom so I wouldn’t have any lighting to study and I had to spend the whole night studying with a flashlight.
I aced all my exams. And instead of my mother being proud of me she locked me up in my room for a week for sneaking out.
I ended up going to college and grad school in STEM and made something of myself. And now she brags to people that I am successful because of her. When she says that I tell her and everyone “absolutely not! I’m successful DESPITE her”.
The panicked rush to jump and start “doing something” when you hear someone come in the house. Lest you be subjected to a barrage of insults and commands.
OMG this! Heaven forbid I'd be resting while nobody was home to see or comment....
Why is nobody mentioning the silent foot steps?
When you grow up with parents that will yell at you for existing you develop the ability to hide your presence as much as possible and always try to keep your noise and visibility to a minimum.
and you also leanr whos steps are whos when they are walking up and down the stairs.
Also where those steps are going so you know if you need to mentally brace yourself or not
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I'm still quiet-stepping up my carpeted stairs at 50+ years old. It's crazy how trying to be "invisible" can actually make you feel invisible for so long after childhood ends. I cut them out of my life decades ago, yet I still try to occupy the smallest space my body can fit. Shhhhhh.
I had multiple hiding spots in every room in the house! Fortunately I was a very small, thin child (to the point of emaciation) and I was able to fit into all kinds of hiding spots. My "favorite" spot, the one I saved for "the worst times", was the bottom cabinet of one of those TV stand things that have built-in cabinets.
Decades later I still startle people because of this, they never notice I entered the room until I start talking to them, they say I walk like a ghost. I had a roommate who half-jokingly insisted I put a bell on my neck because I almost gave her heart attack always just appearing next to her. On the other hand I can always tell who is coming up the stairs even though they are carpeted and do not creak. It’s so ingrained it had become an instinct. And I still get goosebumps when someone’s steps sound like my father’s.
I do this to my wife all...the...time... Not even trying to. She suggested a bell as well.
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I had to learn to walk with gliding steps, so my Dad didn't yell at me for walking too loudly, or for dragging my feet. I had to learn to pee quietly, so he didn't yell at me for making him listen to it. I had to learn to breathe in quick, shallow breaths, because he would yell at me for breathing too loudly/obnoxiously. - On that last one, it turned out I had multiple deviations in my septum that impaired my breathing by up to 60%, and made my nose whistle. Given that he was the one hitting me, the busted up nose was probably on him too. He still thinks he was an amazing father.
I walk pretty much silently and frequently make people jump unintentionally. I had never considered this could be why.
I still walk delicately around even at 37 in my own home alone, but trying to break the habit by stretching my arches more. I'd be so scared when I was younger. These threads are nice reminders of not feeling alone.
Same age as you, and I'm still trying to retrain my walk. I went with the "feet delicately gliding just over the surface of the floor" method, and it's genuinely painful to walk that way. I trip A LOT lol. I've learned it helps to practice outside, so you have room to get going and work on doing it without thinking. Helps me, maybe it'll help you. Glad to not feel so alone on this, either. My wife really doesn't understand, and that's okay cause it means her parents did better, but it makes it hard to talk to her about.
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This hits me hard. My kid had to learn to walk again and now she's a very loud walker and I tell her she needs to learn to walk quietly but I wasn't sure why. Logically, I can't see why it's an issue. After reading this, it's really my younger self worried about it. Worried we'll get in trouble. I'm going to make sure she knows she can walk however she wants and I will never again say anything about the sound. I appreciate this a lot.
...and then you get criticized for not "joining the conversation" - even though everyone will talk over you anyway.
I became a ninja growing up. My mother was a manic extrovert and I'm an introvert. I became very good at disappearing into the house for days at a time to avoid her.
Roll your feet when you walk, it's better than tip toes, stay against the wall on the stairs, they creak less. Oh yea.....
And people wonder why the heels of my shoes still get worn out first
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I registered just to comment on this one, that is how much it affected me. Like others in the comments I need to talk about a parent's footsteps. I grew up in an apartment where the kitchen was on the other side of my bedroom wall. Even when I was a 30+ adult visiting my parents, the sound of my mother's footsteps on her way out of the kitchen would cause me fear. Not anxiety. FEAR. Both my parents recently died. Dear friends are helping me empty the place, but guess what I feel when I hear footsteps on that one meter of flooring?
Won't be long, and you'll never have to hear it again. It's over now 🙂
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I'm 54 and still do this i scare the c**p out of my husband, all the time. because you can't hear me coming. as a matter of fact it happened today. the house i grew up in it was best to be invisible.
For me again these are accurate about the treatment I receive from my husband.
I tend to accidently scare people with this. Not like I need to be quiet so much anymore, they just actively ignore me
I'm trying not to give my kids a complex, but I can not stand a slammed door. That's the only noise they regularly make around the house that I can't tolerate. I blame my submariner days when chiefs drive it into my head that slammed doors kill people(in their defense that is potentially true on a submarine)
I didn't realize this was a thing, but it makes sense. I had really bad hypothyroidism and had to sneak food because I was so hungry I couldn't sleep and my step grandmother would yell if she caught me because I ate two plates at dinner before she cut me off, not wanting me to gain weight. I gained several eating disorders because of her, and even when I ate I wouldn't gain anything. My dad, when talking about the scar from my surgery, mentions that I could eat an entire box of cereal in one sitting and not gain an ounce.
I jumpscare all my friends because of that... to the point that I now have to CONSCIOUSLY make noise when walking to then...
My mom would get nasty with me for coughing or crying when I was sick. I remember I was 8 or 9 and had rhe flu and got yelled at for crying. I was in pain. Give me some Tylenol, Jesus.
I went to high school in a class of 200 and most of them don't know who I am.
I haven't seen anyone mention learning to be a chameleon and quickly adapting to situations and people to blend in or be acceptable
I do that out of habit but my parents weren't toxic, it's more that I don't want people noticing me so I don't have to put up with them.o
I literally have scared so many people so many times a few times I scared the same person over and over again 😅 and have been told I need a cow bell 🤣🤷♀️
I've always done this too. Mom always came out of her room yelling that I was "thumping," so I learned to walk without sound.
I picked up on this ability, but through force of constantly staying up way too late online. If anything, I got under punished too
Husband, elephant Older son, ninja Younger son, baby elephant Daughter, clicky ankles Me, also at the ninja end.
TBH, I wish most parents would teach their kids to keep their noise and visibility to a minimum.
Why? Children are curious, emotion-filled beings who have a whole world to explore and learn from. They aren't props in a movie set, meant to be shuffled from one quiet spot to the next. Good manners should be taught, yes, absolutely, but your comment sounds like the kind of old-school parenting that causes a lot of the problems this post is talking about.
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Emotional numbness especially in the face of bad things. Once you've seen enough shit certain things just don't faze you anymore
And not knowing how to comfort someone. Like I know I should feel something, but I just don't.
Okay lets do it -
self doubt, self esteem issues and overall not feeling good enough or feeling like you have an intense obligation or expectation to fulfil to keep your parents happy.
The inability to know what you want or not knowing how to say no when someone asks something of you in fear they will react poorly.
Inability to be assertive and telling people what you are/aren't ok with.
Not having high values of yourself and putting everyone else before you.
Feeling guilt the minute you 'let someone down.'
TRIGGER WORDS - example 'I'm disappointed'
Having a habit of toxic and repetitive relationships with friends and partners. Also switching around friend groups often or having little to none.
Feeling emotionally inept or being extremely emotional and feeling like you cannot express it.
Difficulty with maintaining life skills, self care, hygiene, finances ect
feeling like a child stuck in an adults body
You apologize for everything you do, good or bad.
i apologize because i’m just worried that i might mess something up.
Paranoia when people are just being nice. Like why are you being friendly? What do I have that you want from me?
Being a people-pleaser to the point of it being detrimental to yourself
being really good at hiding things (physical or mental). being able to sneak something to my room, being able to look like i haven't cried even though i was five minutes ago.
Being afraid that you'll continue the cycle and treat your kids terribly
i don’t want kids. mostly because i know there is no way i would be able to handle them.
You are in your 40s and still crave attention and validation from anyone at all because you were ignored all the time.
::raises hand:: I'm 40 right now and I still have "the class clown" personality because at least if people are laughing at me, they're paying attention to me, right? Right?!
When i tell stories of my childhood that i think are funny but my friends stare in horror
"Haha, omg guys, so once when I was 6, my dad was about to leave on a business trip and my mom grabbed me, pressed the revolver she'd gotten from my grandpa into my throat under my chin, and told my dad that if he left on one more business trip, she'd kill us kids and then herself! Isn't that hilarious?" (that is a true story from my childhood, sadly)
Being surprised people will apologize and want to talk out and deal with an issue instead of screaming and pretending everything is fine and never mentioning why there was a fight or argument at all.
I was always terrified of my mother as a young child, because one moment she would be screaming at me, beating me, and throwing me across the room, and then 5 minutes later she'd come into the room smiling with a plate of cookies she'd just baked all "Do you want a cookie, Cryssie?" I was off-balance all the time because I had NO idea what I'd done to make her angry, nor why she suddenly wasn't angry AT ALL any more, and I was terrified that I'd do whatever I'd done to p**s her off again and she'd go nuclear again in the next 30 seconds. I had no idea that that wasn't normal.
When you really don’t remember any good times you spent with them.
Not reacting appropriately to ordinary situations. Usually an overreaction to a normal situation or underreacting to very messed up situations.
My dad was yelling at me once and I couldn't take it so I made a snappy comment back. Instinctively I threw my hands up to block the blow I knew was coming. But then they both tried to convince me that my dad has never hit me before and why would I act like that.....so physically abusive and mentally abusive with gas lighting
My older sister gets pissed when I talk about how abusive my mother was towards me. She'll say "Mom never HIT you!" Uh, mom used to cut me with the kitchen knives, not just hit me/throw me across the room. But my sister is my parents' biological child, and I'm adopted. My sister is just like my mother and is/was "the perfect child", so she was never yelled at or hit while we were growing up.
Someone raises their voice- doesn't even have to be in anger; they could just have a deep voice but suddenly its *loud* - and your first reaction is to either shrink in on yourself or focus on anything but their face and wait for your throat to stop feeling so tight or for your eyes to stop watering.
this!!! i have never been able to describe the feeling i get when someone becomes loud- it has always terrified me.
When, as an adult, you witness an example of good parenting - and experience a sense of shock, and get dizzy.
You remember being severely neglected yet you were told “you are spoiled.”
I'm apparently "spoiled" because I was adopted! My biological mother was an unmarried alcoholic/drug addict who already had two other children (from unknown fathers) and she didn't even have working utilities in her trailer. I was told from a very early age (5ish or so) that I needed to be grateful because I had been taken away from such a HORRIBLE situation and brought to have a "normal" life. Apparently that = me being spoiled.
Unable to form or desire romantic attachments and not to forget the numerous mental illnesses you have no control over because your parent doesn’t believe in poor mental health so allowed you to go undiagnosed your whole life :)
Mine treated me like I was slow. My twin was very book smart. Took a therapist when I was 16 to test my math skills (first diagnosis) and at 23 I got the full testing to find out, nope not slow.. lots of mental disabilities.. I cried hysterically because I finally had a name to the learning disabilities that plagued my life. Best day of my life.
Not being able to recognize affection or how to show it healthily.
A fantastic sense of humor
Making jokes hides the pain! If you can make others laugh, even if they're laughing AT you, then you are a-o-kay. I'm a master "class clown"/comedian and most of my jokes are self-deprecating.
- Thinking you do everything wrong, even small daily tasks, and at a certain moment you hear other people compliment you about doing it well or asking why I am a perfectionist.
- Always apologizing for everything, multiple times
- When people say something, you suspect that they mean something else, something you did wrong, buy they won't tell you until they get so mad they burst.
- Extremely nauseous feelings when someone gets irritated or angry
I've tried to explain to my husband what it's like to ALWAYS feel that things are my fault. If anyone is ever unhappy in my circle, it's my fault and it's my responsibility to fix what's wrong. I think it It must be amazing not to feel this way.
I can never open up to them. No matter how big or small my problems are, because they'll just tell me I'm being dramatic.
Yep. There have been a lot of days lately when I really needed to "talk to my mom" but that's just not an option
You don't talk to them anymore or want them in your life otherwise as an adult (e.g., not inviting them to your wedding, or want them around any potential children you may have).
They don’t want you to have any better of a life than they did
So much this. I had several opportunities as a teen that were never even discussed but shot down immediately. A trip to Greece for $400 with my class (better believe I would try to scrape that money together for my kids), an invitation to study abroad and the big one, admittance into art school my junior year of highschool. My mom never wanted me to succeed or have anything better than she ever had and she pulled opportunities out from under me any chance she had. I even won "sweetheart" at a Valentine's dance at church as a kid, I was so thrilled then because I never won a thing. In the car on the way home she told me about a lady who said I was very rude to her when she said I looked pretty. I couldn't then recall anything close to this situation , she called me a liar and made me feel awful. It wasn't until much later in life that I realized she was the liar.
My mother treats me like her personal therapist and I'm only 17. She asks me where she went wrong in raising my brother and I and I don't want to tell her because I'm scared of her when she yells.
Even at 31 feeling like if I get close to anyone they'll find a way to take advantage of me
You're raised by people who can barely function, people who are basically at subsistence level. So you have no tools to be successful in the real world. There's no support other than vague crappy advice to just keep plugging along. You know that everything you get in life can disappear in a moment, and no one will be there to provide for you. Worse, your parents are expecting that you'll somehow magically provide for them in their old age. They send you out into the world with worse-than-s**t life skills, and they expect you to support them.
When your valid feelings are dismissed with the words, "You've got to be better than that."
Feeling weird when people tell you that they love you, recieving hugs, feeling weirded out when you have to give hugs, and my personal favorite, being at the end of the favorite's list
i like hugs. but one of my friends constantly calls me her favorite, and is very affectionate, and i get very confused. like, why me??
Not knowing a lot of things that are "common sense" and not realizing til you're an adult yourself
If you're the eldest, an extreme urge to help and "save" your younger siblings, even to the detriment of your own mental health.
When you are telling a story which you think is a funny story from your childhood, only for someone to turn around and tell you "That's not normal".
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If you've grown up in a very dysfunctional household, then not only is your norm set at a very messed up bar, but things that would be horrifying to others might be funny to you because of where your norm was set at. Examples of this can include "funny stories" that actually featured a lot of violent or neglect.
Yep. I've told my friends "funny stories" of times when my mom cut me with kitchen knives, or times when she'd hit me only below the neck so that "no one would see the bruises", or how funny it was that when I was small and light, she'd throw me across the room and into the walls. My friends would be all O_O; and then hug me.
Parents that lean more on you in rough times when it should be 100% the other way around
I was 18 and planning to move out, when my dad had an accident that resulted in a catastrophic brain injury. He had such extensive brain damage that he was bedridden, could not speak/communicate or understand, had to wear diapers, and had to have a feeding tube installed. My mother refused to hire professional caregivers for him, so I was his primary caregiver for the next 21 years (he died last year). I never moved out. My dad was a wonderful person and a great father, so I willingly cared for him because I loved him, but it was pretty awful that my mother assumed that well OF COURSE I'd stay living at home and take care of him so that she could go to the casinos/on vacation whenever she wanted.
Uncomfortably into Disney stuff well into old age. I've noticed that a lot of hardcore Disney fans AS ADULTS (I'm talking people who buy the plates, cups, figures, cookie jars, plush characters, etc) often have had bad parents or experiences as a kid. They probably are trying to hold on to some child like feeling that's still in them. Idk.
There's nothing wrong with being into Disney, but, at a certain point, I have to question what exactly went down in your household as a kid.
I'm not into Disney specifically, but I'm 40 and I still buy stuffed animals for myself quite often.
Always screaming. Always angry. Never showed any physical affection. Completely out of tune with their children's lives.
Heyyyyyy. This is me 100%. Also never giving any life lessons, like don't lose your virginity to someone who shows you romantic affection for the first time! (Or ever teaching me about sex. Still yet to be taught, they still think I'm a virgin.)
I knew how to open a beer and pour it with minimal foam for my mom while she was driving.
You call them for advice and they give you literally the worst advice ever. So you have been doing the opposite haha
Hearing the phrase " when life hands you lemons,make lemonade" is the most repeated and worthless platitude I've ever heard.makes me want to choke the ever loving s**t out of the person who says it.
They told me the wrong date was my birthday. Didnt find out until my sixteenth birthday going for my drivers licence. Couldnt be bothered with getting it right, real nice of them.
Mine is just always forgotten. 10/23. Not hard to remember, yet no one ever can. It's literally 0123 with the 0 and 1 flipped. It's not that hard. And I've never been anywhere even out of the city for my birthday because "education" was so "important" here. But since my brother's birthday was during the summer, we've celebrated his every time we went on vacation.
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I'm posting this comment before I even read the article with the prediction that I have probably experienced 80%-90% of the "signs" listed. I was adopted at birth because my mother didn't want my older sister (my parents' biological child) to "be an only child". I was told continually by my mother that I ought to be "grateful" that I was adopted and that I "owe her" for adopting me, especially since my bio mom was a "junkie alcoholic". This year I found out from my uncle (dad's brother) that my mom adopted ME specifically because she wanted a "blonde, blue-eyed" child (my mom is Mexican). I'm fortunate that my dad was a great guy and a wonderful dad, but he wasn't a strong person, so my mother often abused him as well. (Physically and verbally/emotionally/mentally.)
That lady isn't ur mom. She is someone who thought she was doing good with bad intentions.
Load More Replies... Not understanding the concept of feeling safe. Having to learn that from a Psychologist. Having to practice feeling that. Always trying to make other people feel happy. - and/or solve their problems. Saying "thank you" over and over for the simplest help someone gave me.
At a week from 63, thought I'd evolved to blow off the darts lobbed at me via my Mom...nooope...when she had a health situation I was very worried and begged to be kept updated. Calling her & finding out she had the procedure, asking why she didn't tell me, her response was "Well I did tell A,B,C,D...(the whole stinkin family) because their BLOOD Related"...I'm the eldest and Adopted...Bye Heart👋👋 Buhbye 👋👋. I was absolutely Wrecked for...still...months later. I was dealing, still am, with high cancer markers, Mother instructed me to "Don't think about it" while going into infinite detail about how kind the family was making her feel special" as she had her stage zero begnin pin head size calcification removed voluntarily...while I'm left in my head losing my you know what doing the Wah-watusi w/the Grim Reaper. Only option...Cut them off. It's far better to be Alone of Your OWN choice than to feel like an outsider. ✌️
I have one: not being able to show excitement about anything, as it can then be used against you and they can threaten to take it away. Received an awesome present for my birthday? It’s all right I guess… Been invited to go on a really cool trip? Whatever, who cares…
The saddest part of it all is I'm only 13 and I can relate to most of this, a few months ago my mom quite literally watched over my shoulder as I was filling out a form at the doctor's office abt my mental health and I couldn't even answer the questions properly bc my mom was watching and I didn't want to have to explain why I haven't told her that I've tried to end my life twice as well as the fact she'd make it feel as though it was my fault. I have never felt as though I was a child from an early age I've been questioning everything such as the god(s) I believe in down to why I'm alive, and this just hit a little too close to home. Not only that my mom is extremely homophobic and transphobic, and I'm panromantic demisexual and non binary so... I'm scared if she ever found out she'd abandon me-
I'm so sorry you're going through this. I hope you have or can find some people you trust to talk to about it.
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Another very sad trait of formerly abused adults is being unable to set reasonable boundaries for their own children, always thinking even the slightest scolding is already abuse. My neighbor was that way, she raised absolutely insufferable brats because her own mother was so cruel she ironed her daughters hands because she didn't iron her dresses right. It took her eldest daughter killing the family cat until she realised something was wrong and going to family counseling. Luckily the children were still young and they were able to turn things around.
I wasn't abused, but my mom never got mad at all ever. Once she said in a severe tone to a kid: you may not throw your jacket on the floor and I was shocked. My mom was mad, but pfew it was just a joke. So to me any getting mad is bad and I have to be as perfect as her. She was unable to get mad, because her dad became an alcoholic after WWII. They hid Jews, he was sent to a concentration camp. Afterwards he started to drink and she was the youngest and everyone was afraid of him, when he drank and was in a bad mood, agressive, so they'd say: you go make daddy happy again and she was forced to make him get calm and happy.
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I, as a full fledged adult, have most of these...my mom & I grew close as she got older (she died last summer & I’m still not over it) it took years to forgive her & I’m glad I did. But I’m still emotionally f-d up. However, now that she's passed I can't connect with my father. One of the main reasons I decided not to have kids was I didn't want to fail them the way I was.
All human beings, no matter how old, have feelings. When I was 12, my mom refused to believe that I was tired and stressed out. It was true since at school I was in two honors classes and I was afraid I couldn’t keep up and that I would fail to keep up with my mom’s expectations. When I talked to her about it, she said that I had nothing to be stressed about and that I was just making things up and being ridiculous.But I think you could imagine that I was left with some emotional and psychological damage.
I was raised by a narcissistic mother and an abusive stepfather... when it came to my dad I did not exist unless I was right there in front of him which happened for 1 month every summer if I was lucky. Needless to say mentally and emotionally I am a bit different. People have a hard time understanding the way my mind and emotions work. I have severe abandonment issues as well as a host of other lovely malfunctions including being a chronic people pleaser (just place a welcome mat on my forehead). It has lead me into a lot of unhealthy relationships with people both romantic and platonic. At 41 years old I have decided to start putting myself first and am trying to create some healthy boundary lines to give myself some love and respect.
🤗🤗👏🏾 This may seem corny but great job! Boundaries are hard for my to stick by. I can establish them but fail at sticking with it. You're kicking a*s Beth!!
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My parents are the most wonderful and loving parents I could ever ask for. The only reason I have almost all of these symptoms are from backstabbers, manipulators, and people dedicating their life to hating on me for things like my sexuality, personality, all in elementary school. The teachers would also falsely accuse me of things all the time and I would get verbally abused by the other kids on a daily basis. Of course j didn't tell my parents cause "I didn't want to bother anyone" and I still feel scared opening up to people about my problems as to not drag them down into the ditch with me. To name a few: Sara. Second grade, convinced me we were friends just to stab me in the back after she got all the attention she needed for being "bff"s with the smart kid. Too many to name, middle school. Verbally abuse me for my sexuality and gender. My preferred name is Robyn. Wherever this kid Josh is near me he starts singing the teen titans theme song. I get things thrown at me, (continued)
I get called the f-slur, etc etc. Ice found a group of friends which is in basically shables right now, so it's not really a group and more of a spider web, but we're all lgbtq teens who are all mentally abused in the same way for just being who we are. People come up to us just to harass us, we have a designated spot where we go and hang out during places like lunch and recess, but yet we still get hit by soccer balls. Whenever we tell them to go away, we just get hit with the "OK nobody asked you fa****s." And it really hurts. A lot. Someday I'm afraid I'm going to snap and start cursing them out and screaming at the top of my lungs and throwing out every insult I can, which will lead to my parents finding out about the things I've been through, I've never told them about any of the things I've been through, since kindergarten up until now. I'd be horrified if they found out because I'd have to go through the mushy gushy lovey dovey stuff which I hate. Man, I need therapy
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My BFF tried to leave once because hubby and I were arguing. She said she didn't want to watch us break up. She had no idea you could argue and still love someone. Broke my heart
I realized late in life that the EXTREME anxiety I felt whenever anyone around me wasn't following the rules, wasn't doing what they were "supposed" to do, or was somehow creating disharmony in the environment ... it wasn't actually because of a personal desire to control other people, but FEAR. I grew up in an environment in which anybody causing any disruption, not doing what they were supposed to do, resulted in angry authority figures, and when they go angry, everybody got some.
I first met my girlfriend’s family during thanksgiving 2 years ago. Football, food, the usual holiday stuff. Separate groups were having different conversations. I was sitting there quietly watching the game when I noticed something weird to me… no one was fighting. No arguing. Someone would Leave the room and no one said anything negative behind the person’s back. That’s when I fully realized how toxic and terrible my mom was. She was ALWAYS fighting and being nasty at family gatherings growing up, that’s if we were invited.
my mother is such a narcissist when i talked to her about my feelings (as an adult with children of my own) the best she could come up with was "i'm sorry you feel that way." i don't talk to her any longer and outside of my grandmothers funeral- haven't seen her in 3 years.
I mainly came here to say that if you relate to this article, I'm sending hugs and love for you. I'm proud of you.
I try to tell people that you have to be careful what you say and do to children. Sometimes things that happen to them will have a detrimental effect on their psyche for a very long time. One single incident between my mom and me when I was in the second grade effected me so bad that I could not utter the words “I’m sorry” till I was almost 30 years old.
When you can make a therapist turn white and go speechless with a normal story about your childhood, you know that you were raised wrong. (Done that a few times. Do have to give mother points for creativity in how to screw me up, though.)
When someone asks why I am doing something: Because I'm lazy; fat; stupid; a b***h, etc. Not able to cry in public. (It just gives you a headache.) Mom was sexually abused at a young age and so she had no boundaries. Over shared her life, pried into mine, bought porn to share. Lots of consequences. Thank goodness for my wonderful husband.
I would add one i used to do all the time: daydreaming a lot, you feel so miserable in your real life that you imagine yourself in other place, with different people or you imagine being somebody else.
I... I have trouble with people... I always think I need to please everyone... I just have what feels like a huge hole where my heart should be... every time I mention this my parents are like "oh shut up, drama king"...
What I found out from my SIL: apparently my mom designed her house so I could live in with her and support her ( financially ) She totally freaked out when this didn't turn out the way she planned. I had bought a car at 18 years old and she told me ( not asked, TOLD ) to get rid of the car or leave the house. Guess which choice I made?!
My upbringing was ok. When I was a little over 10 1/2, my grandfather died. I blamed myself for him dying, because I was at a school play enjoying myself. After that, I didn't go to school plays and actually enjoyed myself until I was well into my 20's. Three days after my grandfather was buried, we found out that my grandmother was not allowed to be alone anymore. Since I lived right behind her house, I stepped up and said that I would take care of her. So, that's what I did until I was 22. My mom and dad had my younger sister, who was barely over 2 at that time, to take care of also. My parents did take care of my grandmother as well, and as the years rolled by, my younger sister would as well. I was told about 10 years ago, by one of my nieces, that she blamed my parents because I had volunteered. She said that my parents were supposed to do that, not me. I just don't get why this would bother her.
5th grade teacher sent home a letter saying I'm not 'doing well'. Mother sends back note saying how she has washed her hands of me and the lead horse to water dig. Teacher reads the note to me. yeah, and? Reads the note to me again as though I didn't understand what mother wrote. I sort of chuckled, yeah, that's my mother. The teacher was rattled, I watched as the reality of my reality sank in. High achiever School district too. I'm sure there were parents with deeper contempt for their children but I doubt there were few if any psycho enough to send it to school in a letter.
I can relate to almost all of the signs listed... My mother was and still is an extremely toxic person... I've been trying to find a therapist or psychiatrist, any type of mental health professional to talk to since relocating to a different state... They either don't take my insurance or aren't accepting new patients... It took me making a second attempt at taking my own life to finally find a psychiatrist... My first appointment is Tuesday morning...
I teared up realizing how many of these I related to...and even sitting by myself trying not to cry. Wow...😢
Another thing they didn't put on this list is if they always did everything behind closed doors. Oh, you don't wanna scream at me and bite my head off in public because you'll be f*****g shamed because I, realistically, was doing absolutely nothing wrong, causing no noise, and you'd be seen as the belligerent one? Yeah. Besides sex (and some drugs), if you're doing stuff behind closed doors, you really need to think twice about what you're doing. (Developing photos doesn't count either, FOR THE LOVE OF CHRIST, DO NOT LET THE LIGHT INNNNN.)
Is it really bad to identify with many more of these than I realized?
All the above plus some more :( Like recognizing people by the sound they make when walking or entering the house. Being great at reading non verbal cues. Having to learn to feel your body as an adult, like recognize hunger or the physical expresion of an emotion. Not wanting your own children because you condider it unfair to create a new soul. Having to discover who you are when you are almost thirty. Warped sense of humor. Weird pain tolerance because of your bad connection to your body. Realizing your whole closet is grey/beige/navy or in other words city camouflage. Buying toys and participating in things like halloween to "make up" for not having time to be a child. Being scared of making noise even in your own house, always using headphones. Beeing amazed you have lived this long, always having your mortality present in your mind. Disliking physical touch and affection.
I had great parents, and a really good childhood, something my sister, brother and I are thankful for (we're all in our 60s now, parents died 16 years ago). The messed up part was the two cretins I married, both abusive, neither one worthy of the air they sucked in each day. Never again!
Here's one to add as an alternative to being a perfectionist: No motivation to do anything because you know you wont do it good enough.
When I'm with my mum and my dad isn't there, she constantly vents to me about how much of a control freak he is—and he truly is—and what a b*stard he's been lately, and I'm all sympathetic and consoling. If I have a beef with my dad and mum is there, she goes ballistic and always takes his side. Happened about a week ago for the millionth time as a matter of fact. I'm quite a logical person; I can analyse a situation with clarity. But neither of my folks, especially my mum, knows how to do that so they just react with anger and defensiveness and personal attacks. I have the self esteem of a ham sandwich. I'm basically a hermit in the real world, but, thankfully, I've made some awesome friends on social media in the last few years. People who get me and allow me to be my goofy, self-deprecating self. They are my real, non-toxic family now. Anyone familiar with the Philip Larkin poem? I I'm running out of space here so I'll post it below. Hope this didn't come across as whiny.
They f**k you up, your mum and dad. They may not mean to, but they do. They fill you with the faults they had And add some extra, just for you. But they were f**ked up in their turn By fools in old-style hats and coats, Who half the time were soppy-stern And half at one another’s throats. Man hands on misery to man. It deepens like a coastal shelf. Get out as early as you can, And don’t have any kids yourself.
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How about being constantly asked "what is wrong with you" for being withdrawn and depressed, and having the person asking you that be the very person who's emotional abuse is causing you to feel that way.
Kinda strange... I relate to almost everything yet my parents are really kind and supportive. I guess I was the one to create my own toxic childhood lol
I was, because of childhood trauma, a perfectionist. My mother was a hard taskmaster and nothing was ever done right according to her. I carried that on into adulthood. I was berating myself over a minor mistake at work one day when my boss asked me why I was so upset. I said it's because I need to fix this. She said to leave it alone, it's fine. I was insisting it wasn't. (I really don't remember what it was.) She wanted to know why I had the need to be "perfect" everyone makes mistakes. I said, I'm not supposed to. She was appalled and said, "What? You are allowed to make mistakes, you know! You are human after all." That was an epiphany for me. No one ever told me that before. I guess it should have been common sense, but being beat-down (literally and figuratively) for making mistakes my entire childhood, it wasn't. Making a mistake was terrifying and anxiety inducing. That day I "got permission " to make mistakes altered my mentality.
Wow! I hit 28/50 of those. Bullied persistently by my brothers (mental and physical abuse). Father who was either never there or showed such obvious favouritism towards my other siblings that it was not funny. Mother with such acute anxiety that she was sometimes unable to look after our emotional needs but at least we did get fed but were so short of money because my father withheld alimony.
Glad to know there was at least one point I could not relate to. (Point 50)
Don’t forget low self-worth in the form of not wanting to buy/receive nice things. My dad (divorced, only had us certain weekends) used to buy us (me and little brother) every little thing we wanted. Glass figurine? Done. Wii-U? How about fifteen games. Useless dollar store perfume, tons of stuffed animals, gifts upon gifts. And then we’d hear that money was tight for a bit so we couldn’t visit because of all the money he’d spent on gifts to win us over and the exorbitant amount of alcohol he consumed. It’s made me very cautious about spending money, I’m hesitant to ask my mom about buying things because what if it pushes us over the budget? What if I’m not worth it? It sucks and it’s impacting my daily life.
Wow..I think only 6 out of all those didn't apply to me, and I do love Disney, I watch it hoping families and friends can really be like that, that people will forgive each other and love each other, I moved out at 17 and never saw a point to call family, I could go on but I was captivated on how everything applied
They can still blame their parents cause, y'know, they're to blame, and "fix" whatever they are fixing themselves.
Load More Replies... I'm posting this comment before I even read the article with the prediction that I have probably experienced 80%-90% of the "signs" listed. I was adopted at birth because my mother didn't want my older sister (my parents' biological child) to "be an only child". I was told continually by my mother that I ought to be "grateful" that I was adopted and that I "owe her" for adopting me, especially since my bio mom was a "junkie alcoholic". This year I found out from my uncle (dad's brother) that my mom adopted ME specifically because she wanted a "blonde, blue-eyed" child (my mom is Mexican). I'm fortunate that my dad was a great guy and a wonderful dad, but he wasn't a strong person, so my mother often abused him as well. (Physically and verbally/emotionally/mentally.)
That lady isn't ur mom. She is someone who thought she was doing good with bad intentions.
Load More Replies... Not understanding the concept of feeling safe. Having to learn that from a Psychologist. Having to practice feeling that. Always trying to make other people feel happy. - and/or solve their problems. Saying "thank you" over and over for the simplest help someone gave me.
At a week from 63, thought I'd evolved to blow off the darts lobbed at me via my Mom...nooope...when she had a health situation I was very worried and begged to be kept updated. Calling her & finding out she had the procedure, asking why she didn't tell me, her response was "Well I did tell A,B,C,D...(the whole stinkin family) because their BLOOD Related"...I'm the eldest and Adopted...Bye Heart👋👋 Buhbye 👋👋. I was absolutely Wrecked for...still...months later. I was dealing, still am, with high cancer markers, Mother instructed me to "Don't think about it" while going into infinite detail about how kind the family was making her feel special" as she had her stage zero begnin pin head size calcification removed voluntarily...while I'm left in my head losing my you know what doing the Wah-watusi w/the Grim Reaper. Only option...Cut them off. It's far better to be Alone of Your OWN choice than to feel like an outsider. ✌️
I have one: not being able to show excitement about anything, as it can then be used against you and they can threaten to take it away. Received an awesome present for my birthday? It’s all right I guess… Been invited to go on a really cool trip? Whatever, who cares…
The saddest part of it all is I'm only 13 and I can relate to most of this, a few months ago my mom quite literally watched over my shoulder as I was filling out a form at the doctor's office abt my mental health and I couldn't even answer the questions properly bc my mom was watching and I didn't want to have to explain why I haven't told her that I've tried to end my life twice as well as the fact she'd make it feel as though it was my fault. I have never felt as though I was a child from an early age I've been questioning everything such as the god(s) I believe in down to why I'm alive, and this just hit a little too close to home. Not only that my mom is extremely homophobic and transphobic, and I'm panromantic demisexual and non binary so... I'm scared if she ever found out she'd abandon me-
I'm so sorry you're going through this. I hope you have or can find some people you trust to talk to about it.
Load More Replies... Another very sad trait of formerly abused adults is being unable to set reasonable boundaries for their own children, always thinking even the slightest scolding is already abuse. My neighbor was that way, she raised absolutely insufferable brats because her own mother was so cruel she ironed her daughters hands because she didn't iron her dresses right. It took her eldest daughter killing the family cat until she realised something was wrong and going to family counseling. Luckily the children were still young and they were able to turn things around.
I wasn't abused, but my mom never got mad at all ever. Once she said in a severe tone to a kid: you may not throw your jacket on the floor and I was shocked. My mom was mad, but pfew it was just a joke. So to me any getting mad is bad and I have to be as perfect as her. She was unable to get mad, because her dad became an alcoholic after WWII. They hid Jews, he was sent to a concentration camp. Afterwards he started to drink and she was the youngest and everyone was afraid of him, when he drank and was in a bad mood, agressive, so they'd say: you go make daddy happy again and she was forced to make him get calm and happy.
Load More Replies... I, as a full fledged adult, have most of these...my mom & I grew close as she got older (she died last summer & I’m still not over it) it took years to forgive her & I’m glad I did. But I’m still emotionally f-d up. However, now that she's passed I can't connect with my father. One of the main reasons I decided not to have kids was I didn't want to fail them the way I was.
All human beings, no matter how old, have feelings. When I was 12, my mom refused to believe that I was tired and stressed out. It was true since at school I was in two honors classes and I was afraid I couldn’t keep up and that I would fail to keep up with my mom’s expectations. When I talked to her about it, she said that I had nothing to be stressed about and that I was just making things up and being ridiculous.But I think you could imagine that I was left with some emotional and psychological damage.
I was raised by a narcissistic mother and an abusive stepfather... when it came to my dad I did not exist unless I was right there in front of him which happened for 1 month every summer if I was lucky. Needless to say mentally and emotionally I am a bit different. People have a hard time understanding the way my mind and emotions work. I have severe abandonment issues as well as a host of other lovely malfunctions including being a chronic people pleaser (just place a welcome mat on my forehead). It has lead me into a lot of unhealthy relationships with people both romantic and platonic. At 41 years old I have decided to start putting myself first and am trying to create some healthy boundary lines to give myself some love and respect.
🤗🤗👏🏾 This may seem corny but great job! Boundaries are hard for my to stick by. I can establish them but fail at sticking with it. You're kicking a*s Beth!!
Load More Replies... My parents are the most wonderful and loving parents I could ever ask for. The only reason I have almost all of these symptoms are from backstabbers, manipulators, and people dedicating their life to hating on me for things like my sexuality, personality, all in elementary school. The teachers would also falsely accuse me of things all the time and I would get verbally abused by the other kids on a daily basis. Of course j didn't tell my parents cause "I didn't want to bother anyone" and I still feel scared opening up to people about my problems as to not drag them down into the ditch with me. To name a few: Sara. Second grade, convinced me we were friends just to stab me in the back after she got all the attention she needed for being "bff"s with the smart kid. Too many to name, middle school. Verbally abuse me for my sexuality and gender. My preferred name is Robyn. Wherever this kid Josh is near me he starts singing the teen titans theme song. I get things thrown at me, (continued)
I get called the f-slur, etc etc. Ice found a group of friends which is in basically shables right now, so it's not really a group and more of a spider web, but we're all lgbtq teens who are all mentally abused in the same way for just being who we are. People come up to us just to harass us, we have a designated spot where we go and hang out during places like lunch and recess, but yet we still get hit by soccer balls. Whenever we tell them to go away, we just get hit with the "OK nobody asked you fa****s." And it really hurts. A lot. Someday I'm afraid I'm going to snap and start cursing them out and screaming at the top of my lungs and throwing out every insult I can, which will lead to my parents finding out about the things I've been through, I've never told them about any of the things I've been through, since kindergarten up until now. I'd be horrified if they found out because I'd have to go through the mushy gushy lovey dovey stuff which I hate. Man, I need therapy
Load More Replies... My BFF tried to leave once because hubby and I were arguing. She said she didn't want to watch us break up. She had no idea you could argue and still love someone. Broke my heart
I realized late in life that the EXTREME anxiety I felt whenever anyone around me wasn't following the rules, wasn't doing what they were "supposed" to do, or was somehow creating disharmony in the environment ... it wasn't actually because of a personal desire to control other people, but FEAR. I grew up in an environment in which anybody causing any disruption, not doing what they were supposed to do, resulted in angry authority figures, and when they go angry, everybody got some.
I first met my girlfriend’s family during thanksgiving 2 years ago. Football, food, the usual holiday stuff. Separate groups were having different conversations. I was sitting there quietly watching the game when I noticed something weird to me… no one was fighting. No arguing. Someone would Leave the room and no one said anything negative behind the person’s back. That’s when I fully realized how toxic and terrible my mom was. She was ALWAYS fighting and being nasty at family gatherings growing up, that’s if we were invited.
my mother is such a narcissist when i talked to her about my feelings (as an adult with children of my own) the best she could come up with was "i'm sorry you feel that way." i don't talk to her any longer and outside of my grandmothers funeral- haven't seen her in 3 years.
I mainly came here to say that if you relate to this article, I'm sending hugs and love for you. I'm proud of you.
I try to tell people that you have to be careful what you say and do to children. Sometimes things that happen to them will have a detrimental effect on their psyche for a very long time. One single incident between my mom and me when I was in the second grade effected me so bad that I could not utter the words “I’m sorry” till I was almost 30 years old.
When you can make a therapist turn white and go speechless with a normal story about your childhood, you know that you were raised wrong. (Done that a few times. Do have to give mother points for creativity in how to screw me up, though.)
When someone asks why I am doing something: Because I'm lazy; fat; stupid; a b***h, etc. Not able to cry in public. (It just gives you a headache.) Mom was sexually abused at a young age and so she had no boundaries. Over shared her life, pried into mine, bought porn to share. Lots of consequences. Thank goodness for my wonderful husband.
I would add one i used to do all the time: daydreaming a lot, you feel so miserable in your real life that you imagine yourself in other place, with different people or you imagine being somebody else.
I... I have trouble with people... I always think I need to please everyone... I just have what feels like a huge hole where my heart should be... every time I mention this my parents are like "oh shut up, drama king"...
What I found out from my SIL: apparently my mom designed her house so I could live in with her and support her ( financially ) She totally freaked out when this didn't turn out the way she planned. I had bought a car at 18 years old and she told me ( not asked, TOLD ) to get rid of the car or leave the house. Guess which choice I made?!
My upbringing was ok. When I was a little over 10 1/2, my grandfather died. I blamed myself for him dying, because I was at a school play enjoying myself. After that, I didn't go to school plays and actually enjoyed myself until I was well into my 20's. Three days after my grandfather was buried, we found out that my grandmother was not allowed to be alone anymore. Since I lived right behind her house, I stepped up and said that I would take care of her. So, that's what I did until I was 22. My mom and dad had my younger sister, who was barely over 2 at that time, to take care of also. My parents did take care of my grandmother as well, and as the years rolled by, my younger sister would as well. I was told about 10 years ago, by one of my nieces, that she blamed my parents because I had volunteered. She said that my parents were supposed to do that, not me. I just don't get why this would bother her.
5th grade teacher sent home a letter saying I'm not 'doing well'. Mother sends back note saying how she has washed her hands of me and the lead horse to water dig. Teacher reads the note to me. yeah, and? Reads the note to me again as though I didn't understand what mother wrote. I sort of chuckled, yeah, that's my mother. The teacher was rattled, I watched as the reality of my reality sank in. High achiever School district too. I'm sure there were parents with deeper contempt for their children but I doubt there were few if any psycho enough to send it to school in a letter.
I can relate to almost all of the signs listed... My mother was and still is an extremely toxic person... I've been trying to find a therapist or psychiatrist, any type of mental health professional to talk to since relocating to a different state... They either don't take my insurance or aren't accepting new patients... It took me making a second attempt at taking my own life to finally find a psychiatrist... My first appointment is Tuesday morning...
I teared up realizing how many of these I related to...and even sitting by myself trying not to cry. Wow...😢
Another thing they didn't put on this list is if they always did everything behind closed doors. Oh, you don't wanna scream at me and bite my head off in public because you'll be f*****g shamed because I, realistically, was doing absolutely nothing wrong, causing no noise, and you'd be seen as the belligerent one? Yeah. Besides sex (and some drugs), if you're doing stuff behind closed doors, you really need to think twice about what you're doing. (Developing photos doesn't count either, FOR THE LOVE OF CHRIST, DO NOT LET THE LIGHT INNNNN.)
Is it really bad to identify with many more of these than I realized?
All the above plus some more :( Like recognizing people by the sound they make when walking or entering the house. Being great at reading non verbal cues. Having to learn to feel your body as an adult, like recognize hunger or the physical expresion of an emotion. Not wanting your own children because you condider it unfair to create a new soul. Having to discover who you are when you are almost thirty. Warped sense of humor. Weird pain tolerance because of your bad connection to your body. Realizing your whole closet is grey/beige/navy or in other words city camouflage. Buying toys and participating in things like halloween to "make up" for not having time to be a child. Being scared of making noise even in your own house, always using headphones. Beeing amazed you have lived this long, always having your mortality present in your mind. Disliking physical touch and affection.
I had great parents, and a really good childhood, something my sister, brother and I are thankful for (we're all in our 60s now, parents died 16 years ago). The messed up part was the two cretins I married, both abusive, neither one worthy of the air they sucked in each day. Never again!
Here's one to add as an alternative to being a perfectionist: No motivation to do anything because you know you wont do it good enough.
When I'm with my mum and my dad isn't there, she constantly vents to me about how much of a control freak he is—and he truly is—and what a b*stard he's been lately, and I'm all sympathetic and consoling. If I have a beef with my dad and mum is there, she goes ballistic and always takes his side. Happened about a week ago for the millionth time as a matter of fact. I'm quite a logical person; I can analyse a situation with clarity. But neither of my folks, especially my mum, knows how to do that so they just react with anger and defensiveness and personal attacks. I have the self esteem of a ham sandwich. I'm basically a hermit in the real world, but, thankfully, I've made some awesome friends on social media in the last few years. People who get me and allow me to be my goofy, self-deprecating self. They are my real, non-toxic family now. Anyone familiar with the Philip Larkin poem? I I'm running out of space here so I'll post it below. Hope this didn't come across as whiny.
They f**k you up, your mum and dad. They may not mean to, but they do. They fill you with the faults they had And add some extra, just for you. But they were f**ked up in their turn By fools in old-style hats and coats, Who half the time were soppy-stern And half at one another’s throats. Man hands on misery to man. It deepens like a coastal shelf. Get out as early as you can, And don’t have any kids yourself.
Load More Replies... How about being constantly asked "what is wrong with you" for being withdrawn and depressed, and having the person asking you that be the very person who's emotional abuse is causing you to feel that way.
Kinda strange... I relate to almost everything yet my parents are really kind and supportive. I guess I was the one to create my own toxic childhood lol
I was, because of childhood trauma, a perfectionist. My mother was a hard taskmaster and nothing was ever done right according to her. I carried that on into adulthood. I was berating myself over a minor mistake at work one day when my boss asked me why I was so upset. I said it's because I need to fix this. She said to leave it alone, it's fine. I was insisting it wasn't. (I really don't remember what it was.) She wanted to know why I had the need to be "perfect" everyone makes mistakes. I said, I'm not supposed to. She was appalled and said, "What? You are allowed to make mistakes, you know! You are human after all." That was an epiphany for me. No one ever told me that before. I guess it should have been common sense, but being beat-down (literally and figuratively) for making mistakes my entire childhood, it wasn't. Making a mistake was terrifying and anxiety inducing. That day I "got permission " to make mistakes altered my mentality.
Wow! I hit 28/50 of those. Bullied persistently by my brothers (mental and physical abuse). Father who was either never there or showed such obvious favouritism towards my other siblings that it was not funny. Mother with such acute anxiety that she was sometimes unable to look after our emotional needs but at least we did get fed but were so short of money because my father withheld alimony.
Glad to know there was at least one point I could not relate to. (Point 50)
Don’t forget low self-worth in the form of not wanting to buy/receive nice things. My dad (divorced, only had us certain weekends) used to buy us (me and little brother) every little thing we wanted. Glass figurine? Done. Wii-U? How about fifteen games. Useless dollar store perfume, tons of stuffed animals, gifts upon gifts. And then we’d hear that money was tight for a bit so we couldn’t visit because of all the money he’d spent on gifts to win us over and the exorbitant amount of alcohol he consumed. It’s made me very cautious about spending money, I’m hesitant to ask my mom about buying things because what if it pushes us over the budget? What if I’m not worth it? It sucks and it’s impacting my daily life.
Wow..I think only 6 out of all those didn't apply to me, and I do love Disney, I watch it hoping families and friends can really be like that, that people will forgive each other and love each other, I moved out at 17 and never saw a point to call family, I could go on but I was captivated on how everything applied
They can still blame their parents cause, y'know, they're to blame, and "fix" whatever they are fixing themselves.
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