One wedding photographer has had enough of her personal boundaries being violated, so she turned to the internet to speak up about it. However, the woman soon realized that she touched upon something big — a problem the whole industry suffers from.
Kim Williams is a wedding photographer and videographer based in Brighton, United Kingdom. She shoots about 45 to 50 ceremonies per year, and she told Insider she loves her work.
Except for one thing. She hates the way some men treat her. And we’re not talking about smirks and winks. No no, they go as far as asking for her number in the middle of speeches and repeatedly touching her without consent.
More info: kimwilliamsweddings.com | Instagram
Kim Williams, 30, is a wedding photographer and videographer from the UK
Image credits: kimwilliamsweddings.com
A few days ago, she made an Instagram post, describing all the ways men have crossed the line coming on to her while she was simply doing her job
Image credits: kimwilliamsweddings
Williams first noticed that her work can feel uncomfortable when she’s photographing dance floors.
“When I started shooting weddings and was covering a lot of dance floors and big groups of cis-het men around alcohol, a lot of the time I didn’t feel hugely safe,” she revealed, explaining that some men would touch her without consent or try to ask her out.
Furthermore, men at weddings would frequently “mansplain” things to her, or defer to her male staff members.
Williams added that male peers she worked weddings with were also guilty of this type of behavior.
“I went through some really horrendous things, such as a photographer clicking at me all day and refusing to learn my name,” she said.
He then proceeded to ask her to take a selfie with him, and later told Williams he was sending it to his wife because “she knows I have a thing for brunettes.”
Image credits: kimwilliamsweddings
Image credits: kimwilliamsweddings
Image credits: kimwilliamsweddings
Image credits: kimwilliamsweddings
Image credits: kimwilliamsweddings
Image credits: kimwilliamsweddings
Image credits: kimwilliamsweddings
“I don’t believe it’s women’s problem to solve,” she said. “I think if the men doing the harassing were listening to women, there would be no more harassment because we ask them to stop every single day.”
Williams hopes that sharing her story can lead to industry-wide change that ensures other female and non-binary wedding vendors feel safer at work.
“I would just love for them to be able to turn up at a wedding and feel safe, and feel like all they need to do on that day is focus on making a couple and a guest feel awesome and taking amazing photos or shooting amazing video and not have to worry,” she explained.
As Kim’s message spread around the internet, others came forward with experiences of their own
Image credits: samdocker.co
Sam Docker, who has been in the industry for 9 years now, and has shot weddings all over the UK, Europe, and internationally, is one of Kim’s biggest supporters.
“I’ve heard stories of sexism at weddings before, this isn’t new, but I think in response to Kim’s post around male violence during last year, it made me realize I’d been a little naive towards the situation,” Docker told Bored Panda. “I knew it happened, but Kim’s post highlighted two things: 1) just how severe and extreme some of the abuse can be (Kim’s experiences and the DMs I’ve received from other female photographers detailing their own personal stories have been, quite frankly, shocking and uncomfortable to read), and 2) I was most certainly naive towards the frequency of these experiences.”
However, from speaking to Kim and others, Docker found out there’s a similar incident at almost every single wedding. “These are not isolated cases that happen every now and then to a few female colleagues. These are constant and regular assaults on working women, women who should be allowed to feel safe doing the job of which they are being paid to do, they should not, and never be harassed or assaulted at work,” he explained.
“Following on from reading Kim’s post, I messaged Amy who works in my studio to say that we should address this issue. It’s a complex one, but having spent some time researching the issue and sharing a zoom with Amy and Kim, it was clear that one of the main obstacles and frustrations around this issue is that men do not step up and talk about the problem, and they also don’t call it out amongst their peers at the moment, it’s far too often passed off as ‘lad banter’ or just ‘a joke’ — so we felt that needed to change and that we should take a stance to try and encourage that discussion amongst men,” the photographer said.
According to Docker, even though this issue affects us all, more men need to recognize this behavior and start calling it out as unacceptable.
Image credits: samdocker.co
Sadly, there are plenty of similar examples
Image credits: samdocker.co
Image credits: samdocker.co
Image credits: samdocker.co
Image credits: samdocker.co
Image credits: samdocker.co
Williams started the hashtag #handsoffwedding for other wedding photographers to use if they want to share them
Image credits: kimwilliamsweddings
She also shared a series of tips in order to help couples to make their wedding a safe place to work
Image credits: kimwilliamsweddings
Image credits: kimwilliamsweddings
Image credits: kimwilliamsweddings
Image credits: kimwilliamsweddings
Image credits: kimwilliamsweddings
Image credits: kimwilliamsweddings
Image credits: kimwilliamsweddings
Image credits: kimwilliamsweddings
Here’s what people said about the issue
Image credits: www.facebook.com
Image credits: www.facebook.com
Image credits: www.facebook.com
Image credits: www.facebook.com
Image credits: www.facebook.com
Image credits: www.facebook.com
Image credits: www.facebook.com
Literally waiting right now on all the misogynists to show up in this comment thread and prove this lady right.
I have countless stories like this. Aside from being raped once, I've literally lost count of how many times I've been assaulted, touched, grabbed. I used to confide in people because it would make me feel so worthless and violated but I would always get "he seems like a nice guy", "maybe it's part of his culture", "oh he's just had a few too many" etc that I stopped talking about it altogether. I don't know anyone like OP who understands that all this is WRONG and ILLEGAL. Sorry to vent on here but I think I'd snap one day if it wasn't for places like this letting me feel like I've told someone.
i’m so sorry for you. if you ever need to talk i’m here. stay safe sweetie x <3
Load More Replies...
Some men act like asses whenever they get the chance! I was a beer cart girl at a golf course for 6 years! I feel like I can spot them a mile away now !
I'm very sorry for that. But thank you for adding 'some'.
Load More Replies...
Men should try out this kind of behaviour on their mothers first and see how they like it. I bet they would be horrified by how their sons would act towards women they don't know. I was assaulted once on a very packed tram (in Antwerp) and I still remeber the nasty smirk on the boy's face - he couldn't be older than twenty, I was around 50 at the time. I was so perpelexed I completely forgot to kick him in the balls. A man, yes a man, pulled me towards him to let me lean against him and didn't touch me.
You’d be surprised at how many moms are aware of their son’s sh*tty behavior. But definitely a change needs to happen
Load More Replies...
Brian Young - Blaming it on her for choosing her clients poorly. Seriously, dude? The amount of crap women put up with, and in many instances, don't even register because it's so commonplace, is disgusting. Men, get a grip.
The photographer (and other wedding staff) can choose their clients, they CAN’T choose the 100-200+ guests who attend the wedding. It’s not on the photographer AT ALL, it’s ALL on the men who don’t know how to behave in an appropriate manner.
Load More Replies...
I think normal men who don't do crap like this have no idea how frequent it is. And the a*****e men who ARE doing it, know it's wrong but have gotten away with it many times and are confident there will be no consequences for them this time either.
Might be because the worst are also sneaky. However. Some guys are clueless and don't think they're doing anything wrong because they wouldn't mind be touched or treated the same way or would be even flattered. Ofc I mean less intrusive behaviour.
Load More Replies...
I feel like this is one slice of the pie. Because in my life as a cis-woman, I have experienced all these things and more just by being alive in a public space. It made me think of the time I was at a large university disco (dance whatever) and these two guys were harassing me. There was a conga line (it was the 80s) and they immediately sandwiched me front and back. The one in front gripped my arms and the one behind groped me. I managed to get them both off me. Then they started fighting each other and one of them swung and hit me by mistake. I'd had enough by this point so I punched him, lights out, onto the floor (former bouncer). At this point, another young man who had been making his way over approached me and asked if I was all right. He said he had seen them groping me and was actually coming over to step in when they started swinging. He was really angry and upset at my treatment. I feel like this represents all the men. For every two arseholes, there is one good guy.
If there's only one good guy for every two bad guys, things are very bad
Load More Replies...
Don't be shy about firmly telling someone to "Get your hand off of me!" Look them in the eye and put on your best "Do I look like I'm joking?" face.
THIS. Be loud, draw attention to it. Don't aid the perpetrator by keeping his dirty secret.
Load More Replies...
All men think they're champions for women's safety and equality simply because they're not abusers. They take no active part in stopping the men they know continuing their mentality and behavior, they just smile and let it slide. My male roommate goes on and on about how he's a feminist and champions women, until I pointed out that he happily sat and watched his male friend verbally abuse and threaten the two women at the table, while he sat there with a stupid grin on his face and said nothing. Until I pointed that out he didn't realize how big a part of the problem he, and many other men are. Men are the beginning, and end, of the fuc*ing problem.
This is very important. Often when "not all men" say, very proudly, that they have never assaulted a woman it's like they forget that that's the very least you expect from another human being. It's not an accomplishment, you are not a champion or a hero.
Load More Replies...
I don't know a single woman, including myself, who hasn't been sexually assaulted...from being catcalled to having her body touched without her permission to being raped. Not a single woman I know has escaped this behavior. So, every time you say "not all men behave this way," remember that every woman has been treated this way.
I am sorry for what you & all of our sisters have endured. 💔 I am a survivor, myself. However, that still does NOT make ALL MEN perpetrators. A few scumbags perpetrate on MANY, MANY women, in my experience. I have also been assaulted by women. Women assault men (who get even less support than women who are victimized 💔), & women assault women. Men assault women, & men assault men. Perpetrators come in every sex & gender. Victims come in every sex & gender. I raised a son who would not do these things to women, nor would his Father, either of his Grandfathers, my brother, my Uncle, my male friends, nor my male comrades. It is ABSOLUTELY false that "ALL MEN" are misogynists, or predators. There are many scumbags, & they generally perpetrate on MANY, MANY, MANY victims, in my experience. There are many, many good & decent men, who would not perpetrate upon anyone.
Load More Replies...
I'm a middle school teacher, I taught my students that whenever they are treated inappropriately they should speak very calmly but loud and say "ARE YOU A RAPIST? IS THAT WHY YOU ARE TOUCHING ME WITHOUT MY CONSENT? ARE YOU A RAPIST?" repeatedly, not yelling, not fighting, just talking loudly so people around can hear them. I've been told the person will freak out and scram ASAP to get away from them.
Let me start by saying that I was privileged to have a father, and brothers who would never have acted this way, nor tolerated it. That being said, I'm 61, and I am saddened that this seems to be getting worse, rather than better. Don't get me wrong, I had my share of idiots when I was a young woman, but nothing even close to this. Why is that? Who knows. There is a double edged sword here, in that (and this is just my opinion), men used to be more polite to women. But with that politeness came the need to "protect" us. As if we couldn't take care of ourselves. Until men start understanding that women are people, without the need of their opinions, we will never be equal.
I may be a Pollyanna, but I don't really think it's getting worse, I think we're just talking about it now.
Load More Replies...
In my late 20's and throughout my 30's I witnessed this behavior several times. Both men and women, but definitely more aggressive in men. For the most part a simple no stopped the harassment, but at least a couple times it took the intervention of a few peer males to shut it down. I've seen the same from a few intoxicated women, but it was usually laughed off and not a issue that made it to the parking lot. This is definitely something that needs to be addressed at the very least with open bar weddings, and at the very least the vendor issued harassment clause should be included as a basic addendum to all contracts. I'm all aboard on this train, and will absolutely be introducing myself as a safe person to all event staff in the future. Unacceptable!
Sad but true. I worked as a Concierge at a hotel, other than my job looking after VIPs I regularly hosted weddings at the hotel. I spent the day looking after the Bride and Groom, and I was the go-between for them and their photographers, DJs, bands etc. There to make things run smoothly. After a short time in the job and having witnessed similar behaviour to what’s written above we (the hotel) took steps to stop it, we kept the contractors well informed, removed guests who were repeatedly causing problems and let them know that we had a zero tolerance policy to harassment, the contractors could ask me at any point to step in, we agreed simple signals to indicate problems, all done discreetly so that wedding days weren’t wrecked by inconsiderate guests who couldn’t behave in an appropriate manner. No one wants me to explain to a B&G why their best mate is leaving early. In my experience it’s 99% drunk men who are the guilty parties, I have no excuses for them, they are pondlife.
It's not just some men who get lechy when alcohol is involved. When my OH was young he was harassed by the older female colleagues he worked with - bum pinched, overly familiar, smutty comments, at work events when there was too much alchohol involved. If he'd complained, they would definitely have said that 'it was only a bit of a laugh' and 'not to be so up tight'.
Unpopular opinion but I personally think it's harder to shut down this behavior for women until it's shut down for men. You tell a woman to stop and she's just going to remember all the times the same was done to her. (She should still be told to stop, as should anyone who does this.)
Load More Replies...
I used to work/meet with a female photographer on several events. Since I was the newbie at time, I used to follow her and ask for tips or what to do... but always asked "who's the boss" first, but in this case I knew it was her
I would like to say that this isn't a man thing.. it is an arsehole mans thing. I wish we could cull these sort of idiots and start again with a clean slate.
I consider myself a fairly balanced, normal, run of the mill guy, and while I might have some views that the more 'woke' might consider misogenistic, I'm appalled that so many women are treated this way. One thing I would say though, is that a lot of men have difficulty remembering how to behave when drunk. The best way to remind them is a good hard smack/kick to the balls. If they complain, they'll have to explain their behaviour first. 😂
It isn't 'so many' it is all. We've all dealt with it. We can't kick all guys in the balls because that's how you land in jail. Doesn't matter what he was doing, the woman is going to jail. It isn't about minding your manners when drunk, it is about knowing women are human beings. If you know that, it doesn't matter if you're drunk or not.
Load More Replies...
Eye-opening. I would be insulted if I was at a wedding where the couple announced that abuse wouldn't be tolerated and the best man was a designated safe person. (Because obviously my friends, family, and I are all good people who would never dream of acting so inappropriately/evilly.) But, sincerely, I guess it's better to risk giving offense than it is to let the most vulnerable people get repeatedly abused! Believing the best of our friends/family--being in denial that it's happening at our own circle's weddings--can let these bad behaviors perpetuate.
Nnnot surprised at all. I say frequently, and very honestly, that I don't know A-n-y women who don't have At Least One story of a time that somebody Touched, and usually had to be MADE to stop.
Not a wedding industry comment, but one about my dumbass father-in-law coming from a wedding . We are on the return bus to the hotel with several of my sister-in-laws out of town guests on the bus. Well, the idiot loudly brags to his cousin, "Did you see those girls? Oh man, if I was a man of 20 again... Them jumping up and down on the dance floor? It's good to have boys, because those girls.." He was SO LOUD, I could see my mother-in-law shutdown since she's trauma bonded. I was so disgusted I yelled outright, "Hey, those girls are 16 and 15 dude. You sound like a pervert". I was fuming. Same jackhole kept telling my husband on OUR WEDDING that he has to, "Do the deed tonight or were not officially married", and s**t like, "If this was old timey England he would have first night rights to me". I have zero respect for him and I'm not shedding a tear for this narcissistic POS when he goes. Alcohol just magnifies the real monsters underneath. Yeah, I think if a man sees another man aggressively harassing any woman at a wedding and doesn't hear, "No or Stop", I will pay you 100$ to take him outside and punch him in the nose.
I’m literally a man, and not once have I ever felt the need to go out of my way to harass any woman just to satiate some primitive, animalistic urge. These men have no self control whatsoever. It’s literally common courtesy to NOT touch someone where s/t/he/y doesn’t want to be touched. As a man myself I repent of my sinful nature, and willingly take any and all punishment directed at me. I know you can’t trust us. I understand. Men can, and should, do way better than that. Keep on preaching the Word until every man repents of his male privilege and we can all move forwards towards an inclusive and equal society.
OMG, photographer Brian Young's comment "photographers with certain clientele may have shot hundreds of weddings and never experienced behavior like this". Actually, the more privileged the clientele, the freer they feel to be badly behaved. If he has not seen ANY of this at weddings he has shot, he is blind.
With all respect, to say misogyny is MENS issue is wrong. All men don't hate women and all women don't like each other, its more of a person we are talking here, yet statements like this straightforward reject the whole gender, whereas if one says WOMEN are whore, the person is likely to get a backlash for typecasting women like this, whereas so little is talked about when the opposite happens. And in no way I support those men, they truly need to learn their lesson.
Most pedophiles are men, most serial killers too, most mass shooters, those who commit incest, flower who murder pregnant wives and girlfriends.....you’re just another predator lying to himself. There are only a small number of women who are whores, you are comparing apples to oranges as misogynistic men tend to do.
Load More Replies...
I actually had something like this happen to me before. One time in particular, though thankfully it didn't get violent, happened at a bar. You can guess the guy was drunk. My Mother and I frequent this bar whenever I go to visit her, purely for the karaoke, so we were friends with the DJ and bartenders. It was kind of a narrow space getting to the DJ booth between the tables and bar, so when I was going to slip through, a guy, roughly middle-aged or so grabbed me by the waist and pulled me into his lap. Right in front of my Mother. It was clear he was drunk by the way he was slurring and I was quick to get away from him, but it still freaked me out at the time. I was lucky the bar staff did something about it and kicked him out, or I might've chosen to stay at our table the rest of the time we were there. I think I was around twenty one or twenty two and I'm normally a homebody, so bars weren't really my thing. This karaoke thing was the exception.
Look at all the white knights showing up on this post. Yeah, it sucks, and things like this should never happen. Some men tend to get stupid, especially around an open bar, at a wedding, when love/lust is in the air. They are simple creatures that should honestly aspire to do better, especially as far as treatment of women should go. This isn't the case for all men though... People tend to think as if this kind of treatment from men is true for 100% of the male population, but it's not. No one's perfect and in a crowd of people, you're bound to come across a jackass or three. Not saying it's right, or should be expected or even tolerated, all I'm saying is that people shouldn't treat this topic as if this is a problem for all men. Not every guy thinks or acts this way, and in the grand scheme of things, it's a smaller population than you think. Men are getting better as we progress in society, but there will always be some backwards idiots.
It is likely that you were cramping the 'style' of the bride's brother, on the dance floor. He did not want you to take any incriminating photos of him/his friends. Just a thought otherwise doesn't make sense
This is a world issue. the first change starts in ourselves. Its time for an awareness.it should never be ignored the abuse that sometimes can even lead to death. Women were not created to be a man's maid or whore.
Cis-het man here with at least 2 bisexual children, one of them trans. The third one is only 6 so I suppose we shall see. I used to think posts like this were an exaggeration, but that's through my own lens. I speak to my 20 and 18 y/o daughters and frankly I'm horrified at what they deal with. Cis-het men: can we collectively work on not being sociopaths, please? The man brand is suffering because of it!
Women and girls are suffering because of it, but I take your point.
Load More Replies...
This just reinforces to me that I was lucky growing up that most of the wedding receptions I went to were limited to punch, mints and mixed nuts, with some dancing. All of the ones I've been to as an adult where there was alcohol involved had crappy situations because people go to get drunk and not to support their friends/family getting married.
The fact that she needed to do this guide is apalling. Always have hated weddings because they always bring the worst on people: From the lameass speeches to the stupid f***s dancing and crashing with everything. My respects to this woman, and would love for her to be able to kick these men in the balls and get a bonus from the one who hires her.
Here's the thing as some of the posted replies in the article point out: It's not a men's issue. It's not a women's issue. It's a SOCIETY issue. Before most of you women get all uppity about this, please note that when some women also get their serious buzz to drunkenness going, that they can also be all over you like a cheap suit. It's just as obnoxious. It's just as wrong. Men and women need to seriously check their circles, realize the ones who can poison a situation, and jettison them before it's too late. Women need to keep two things on them at all times if possible: pepper spray and (if legal), a taser. Men need to have 110% respect for their friends getting married. For f**k's sake it's THEIR day, not yours. Hitting up the wedding photog is zero class. Society itself has become the problem. Perhaps if there were better fathers out there who didn't shirk responsibility, the sons of today wouldn't be so horrendous in their interpersonal actions.
Instead of dealing with the people involved at the time of the many alleged events, what are we - who have nothing to do with any of this - to make of you, who could be anything from a dimwit to a fantasist?
I'm sorry for anyone who gets harassed this way. I feel like if you get caught by a drunk guy around your neck, calling a patrol to come and at least embarrass him publicly is something that needs to be done. By witnesses or victims. Roaches like that need darkness, only when we shine a light early, they won't grow into even bigger monsters
It is most definitely a men's issue. I've worked in male dominate field for 12 years (security) and I'm amazed at how much the culture changed. The men were not horrible to begin with, most were uneducated on how to properly talk with a woman they were attracted to. The decent men in our company would step in on behalf of any woman (staff or not) who was being harassed. They took other men under their wing to educate them on how to be respectful of women. Jerks do not last long in our ranks, they are either educated or scared off.
Here's the deal with me, I don't care who's feelings are hurt or who I embarrass if a man puts his f****** hands on me without my permission or invitation he's going to get a hard kick to the nuts and hopefully that will be the last time I'll have that issue. I'm sick and tired of men feeling like they own the whole world and everybody in it.
Had a similar problem in my years working customer service. I have asperger's and an ENORMOUS disdain for physical contact, and yet people STILL (after the coronavius FINALLY made the world more me-friendly) won't get out of my happy little bubble. I've always enjoyed a 5-10 foot spave between me and other people. In my college years i was told that i was "cold and hostile" just because i was not ok with this rando standing less than a foot away from me.
I wonder if it's time for women to just start doing all of these things to men, that they've been doing for centuries
I got roped into being the wedding photographer for the wedding of a friend of my first wife. I was a fashion photographer at the time. The pair getting married were total demanding d***s from the get-go, and only got worse as the day progressed. It was in the days of film photography, so at the end of the day I was able to give them their photographs WITHOUT ANY F*CKING AROUND, as they so impolitely demanded - I pulled the film out of the 20 or so cans I'd shot and handed the whole dangling mess to them. Very satisfying experience for me.
Thanks for letting us know that you're ok with sexual assault.
Load More Replies...
I feel like us, as women, are far too hard on men sometimes. While everythinf said here was true, lol, it doesnt change rhe fact that women do some of these things to men, too. And as noted, yes, usually while drunk. We all simply need more self awareness
In early childhood, boys and girls play together without problems. Around age 8-10, they segregate by sex. Girls do mature faster than boys but by mid-teens they’re even. However, the social segregation leaves a void that causes trouble for both males and females: abuse for the women and loneliness for the men.
The segregation does instill that the other gender is 'other', not like us, so must not be human the same way we are. I don't think its the whole answer, but a contributing factor. Girls don't mature faster, they are taught from birth that behavior is unacceptable. It is tolerated in boys so it only looks like they mature slower.
Load More Replies...
Why are you concentrating on teaching women how to physically fight back instead of teaching boys to keep them hands to themselves? Stop putting the onus on the victim and put it where it belongs, on the harasser.
Load More Replies...
Apologists who had to google misandry really are an embarrassment. Knock it off.
Load More Replies...
I mean even that's kinda creepy if you're trying to work
Load More Replies...
Please stop trying to get others to co-sign your bad behavior. This most certainly is not something "we are all guilty of". The fact that you would even think so makes me worry about what actions you have used that excuse to justify.
Load More Replies... Thank you for showing up to prove us right.
Load More Replies...
I absolutely will hit the down vote button. Because it's not about the act itself, it's about the difference in power structure. When a woman touches a man inappropriately, he's not afraid that she's going to rape and/or murder him. For every woman, this is an actual fear because they have so much less power in that situation. Treating it with a bored yawn is not a privilege that we have.
Load More Replies...
Because these men do *not* listen to anyone that isn't another man.
Load More Replies...
If she’s working she’s not available. Hey guys here Misogynist No1
Load More Replies... Literally waiting right now on all the misogynists to show up in this comment thread and prove this lady right.
I have countless stories like this. Aside from being raped once, I've literally lost count of how many times I've been assaulted, touched, grabbed. I used to confide in people because it would make me feel so worthless and violated but I would always get "he seems like a nice guy", "maybe it's part of his culture", "oh he's just had a few too many" etc that I stopped talking about it altogether. I don't know anyone like OP who understands that all this is WRONG and ILLEGAL. Sorry to vent on here but I think I'd snap one day if it wasn't for places like this letting me feel like I've told someone.
i’m so sorry for you. if you ever need to talk i’m here. stay safe sweetie x <3
Load More Replies... Some men act like asses whenever they get the chance! I was a beer cart girl at a golf course for 6 years! I feel like I can spot them a mile away now !
I'm very sorry for that. But thank you for adding 'some'.
Load More Replies... Men should try out this kind of behaviour on their mothers first and see how they like it. I bet they would be horrified by how their sons would act towards women they don't know. I was assaulted once on a very packed tram (in Antwerp) and I still remeber the nasty smirk on the boy's face - he couldn't be older than twenty, I was around 50 at the time. I was so perpelexed I completely forgot to kick him in the balls. A man, yes a man, pulled me towards him to let me lean against him and didn't touch me.
You’d be surprised at how many moms are aware of their son’s sh*tty behavior. But definitely a change needs to happen
Load More Replies... Brian Young - Blaming it on her for choosing her clients poorly. Seriously, dude? The amount of crap women put up with, and in many instances, don't even register because it's so commonplace, is disgusting. Men, get a grip.
The photographer (and other wedding staff) can choose their clients, they CAN’T choose the 100-200+ guests who attend the wedding. It’s not on the photographer AT ALL, it’s ALL on the men who don’t know how to behave in an appropriate manner.
Load More Replies... I think normal men who don't do crap like this have no idea how frequent it is. And the a*****e men who ARE doing it, know it's wrong but have gotten away with it many times and are confident there will be no consequences for them this time either.
Might be because the worst are also sneaky. However. Some guys are clueless and don't think they're doing anything wrong because they wouldn't mind be touched or treated the same way or would be even flattered. Ofc I mean less intrusive behaviour.
Load More Replies... I feel like this is one slice of the pie. Because in my life as a cis-woman, I have experienced all these things and more just by being alive in a public space. It made me think of the time I was at a large university disco (dance whatever) and these two guys were harassing me. There was a conga line (it was the 80s) and they immediately sandwiched me front and back. The one in front gripped my arms and the one behind groped me. I managed to get them both off me. Then they started fighting each other and one of them swung and hit me by mistake. I'd had enough by this point so I punched him, lights out, onto the floor (former bouncer). At this point, another young man who had been making his way over approached me and asked if I was all right. He said he had seen them groping me and was actually coming over to step in when they started swinging. He was really angry and upset at my treatment. I feel like this represents all the men. For every two arseholes, there is one good guy.
If there's only one good guy for every two bad guys, things are very bad
Load More Replies... Don't be shy about firmly telling someone to "Get your hand off of me!" Look them in the eye and put on your best "Do I look like I'm joking?" face.
THIS. Be loud, draw attention to it. Don't aid the perpetrator by keeping his dirty secret.
Load More Replies... All men think they're champions for women's safety and equality simply because they're not abusers. They take no active part in stopping the men they know continuing their mentality and behavior, they just smile and let it slide. My male roommate goes on and on about how he's a feminist and champions women, until I pointed out that he happily sat and watched his male friend verbally abuse and threaten the two women at the table, while he sat there with a stupid grin on his face and said nothing. Until I pointed that out he didn't realize how big a part of the problem he, and many other men are. Men are the beginning, and end, of the fuc*ing problem.
This is very important. Often when "not all men" say, very proudly, that they have never assaulted a woman it's like they forget that that's the very least you expect from another human being. It's not an accomplishment, you are not a champion or a hero.
Load More Replies... I don't know a single woman, including myself, who hasn't been sexually assaulted...from being catcalled to having her body touched without her permission to being raped. Not a single woman I know has escaped this behavior. So, every time you say "not all men behave this way," remember that every woman has been treated this way.
I am sorry for what you & all of our sisters have endured. 💔 I am a survivor, myself. However, that still does NOT make ALL MEN perpetrators. A few scumbags perpetrate on MANY, MANY women, in my experience. I have also been assaulted by women. Women assault men (who get even less support than women who are victimized 💔), & women assault women. Men assault women, & men assault men. Perpetrators come in every sex & gender. Victims come in every sex & gender. I raised a son who would not do these things to women, nor would his Father, either of his Grandfathers, my brother, my Uncle, my male friends, nor my male comrades. It is ABSOLUTELY false that "ALL MEN" are misogynists, or predators. There are many scumbags, & they generally perpetrate on MANY, MANY, MANY victims, in my experience. There are many, many good & decent men, who would not perpetrate upon anyone.
Load More Replies... I'm a middle school teacher, I taught my students that whenever they are treated inappropriately they should speak very calmly but loud and say "ARE YOU A RAPIST? IS THAT WHY YOU ARE TOUCHING ME WITHOUT MY CONSENT? ARE YOU A RAPIST?" repeatedly, not yelling, not fighting, just talking loudly so people around can hear them. I've been told the person will freak out and scram ASAP to get away from them.
Let me start by saying that I was privileged to have a father, and brothers who would never have acted this way, nor tolerated it. That being said, I'm 61, and I am saddened that this seems to be getting worse, rather than better. Don't get me wrong, I had my share of idiots when I was a young woman, but nothing even close to this. Why is that? Who knows. There is a double edged sword here, in that (and this is just my opinion), men used to be more polite to women. But with that politeness came the need to "protect" us. As if we couldn't take care of ourselves. Until men start understanding that women are people, without the need of their opinions, we will never be equal.
I may be a Pollyanna, but I don't really think it's getting worse, I think we're just talking about it now.
Load More Replies... In my late 20's and throughout my 30's I witnessed this behavior several times. Both men and women, but definitely more aggressive in men. For the most part a simple no stopped the harassment, but at least a couple times it took the intervention of a few peer males to shut it down. I've seen the same from a few intoxicated women, but it was usually laughed off and not a issue that made it to the parking lot. This is definitely something that needs to be addressed at the very least with open bar weddings, and at the very least the vendor issued harassment clause should be included as a basic addendum to all contracts. I'm all aboard on this train, and will absolutely be introducing myself as a safe person to all event staff in the future. Unacceptable!
Sad but true. I worked as a Concierge at a hotel, other than my job looking after VIPs I regularly hosted weddings at the hotel. I spent the day looking after the Bride and Groom, and I was the go-between for them and their photographers, DJs, bands etc. There to make things run smoothly. After a short time in the job and having witnessed similar behaviour to what’s written above we (the hotel) took steps to stop it, we kept the contractors well informed, removed guests who were repeatedly causing problems and let them know that we had a zero tolerance policy to harassment, the contractors could ask me at any point to step in, we agreed simple signals to indicate problems, all done discreetly so that wedding days weren’t wrecked by inconsiderate guests who couldn’t behave in an appropriate manner. No one wants me to explain to a B&G why their best mate is leaving early. In my experience it’s 99% drunk men who are the guilty parties, I have no excuses for them, they are pondlife.
It's not just some men who get lechy when alcohol is involved. When my OH was young he was harassed by the older female colleagues he worked with - bum pinched, overly familiar, smutty comments, at work events when there was too much alchohol involved. If he'd complained, they would definitely have said that 'it was only a bit of a laugh' and 'not to be so up tight'.
Unpopular opinion but I personally think it's harder to shut down this behavior for women until it's shut down for men. You tell a woman to stop and she's just going to remember all the times the same was done to her. (She should still be told to stop, as should anyone who does this.)
Load More Replies... I used to work/meet with a female photographer on several events. Since I was the newbie at time, I used to follow her and ask for tips or what to do... but always asked "who's the boss" first, but in this case I knew it was her
I would like to say that this isn't a man thing.. it is an arsehole mans thing. I wish we could cull these sort of idiots and start again with a clean slate.
I consider myself a fairly balanced, normal, run of the mill guy, and while I might have some views that the more 'woke' might consider misogenistic, I'm appalled that so many women are treated this way. One thing I would say though, is that a lot of men have difficulty remembering how to behave when drunk. The best way to remind them is a good hard smack/kick to the balls. If they complain, they'll have to explain their behaviour first. 😂
It isn't 'so many' it is all. We've all dealt with it. We can't kick all guys in the balls because that's how you land in jail. Doesn't matter what he was doing, the woman is going to jail. It isn't about minding your manners when drunk, it is about knowing women are human beings. If you know that, it doesn't matter if you're drunk or not.
Load More Replies... Eye-opening. I would be insulted if I was at a wedding where the couple announced that abuse wouldn't be tolerated and the best man was a designated safe person. (Because obviously my friends, family, and I are all good people who would never dream of acting so inappropriately/evilly.) But, sincerely, I guess it's better to risk giving offense than it is to let the most vulnerable people get repeatedly abused! Believing the best of our friends/family--being in denial that it's happening at our own circle's weddings--can let these bad behaviors perpetuate.
Nnnot surprised at all. I say frequently, and very honestly, that I don't know A-n-y women who don't have At Least One story of a time that somebody Touched, and usually had to be MADE to stop.
Not a wedding industry comment, but one about my dumbass father-in-law coming from a wedding . We are on the return bus to the hotel with several of my sister-in-laws out of town guests on the bus. Well, the idiot loudly brags to his cousin, "Did you see those girls? Oh man, if I was a man of 20 again... Them jumping up and down on the dance floor? It's good to have boys, because those girls.." He was SO LOUD, I could see my mother-in-law shutdown since she's trauma bonded. I was so disgusted I yelled outright, "Hey, those girls are 16 and 15 dude. You sound like a pervert". I was fuming. Same jackhole kept telling my husband on OUR WEDDING that he has to, "Do the deed tonight or were not officially married", and s**t like, "If this was old timey England he would have first night rights to me". I have zero respect for him and I'm not shedding a tear for this narcissistic POS when he goes. Alcohol just magnifies the real monsters underneath. Yeah, I think if a man sees another man aggressively harassing any woman at a wedding and doesn't hear, "No or Stop", I will pay you 100$ to take him outside and punch him in the nose.
I’m literally a man, and not once have I ever felt the need to go out of my way to harass any woman just to satiate some primitive, animalistic urge. These men have no self control whatsoever. It’s literally common courtesy to NOT touch someone where s/t/he/y doesn’t want to be touched. As a man myself I repent of my sinful nature, and willingly take any and all punishment directed at me. I know you can’t trust us. I understand. Men can, and should, do way better than that. Keep on preaching the Word until every man repents of his male privilege and we can all move forwards towards an inclusive and equal society.
OMG, photographer Brian Young's comment "photographers with certain clientele may have shot hundreds of weddings and never experienced behavior like this". Actually, the more privileged the clientele, the freer they feel to be badly behaved. If he has not seen ANY of this at weddings he has shot, he is blind.
With all respect, to say misogyny is MENS issue is wrong. All men don't hate women and all women don't like each other, its more of a person we are talking here, yet statements like this straightforward reject the whole gender, whereas if one says WOMEN are whore, the person is likely to get a backlash for typecasting women like this, whereas so little is talked about when the opposite happens. And in no way I support those men, they truly need to learn their lesson.
Most pedophiles are men, most serial killers too, most mass shooters, those who commit incest, flower who murder pregnant wives and girlfriends.....you’re just another predator lying to himself. There are only a small number of women who are whores, you are comparing apples to oranges as misogynistic men tend to do.
Load More Replies... I actually had something like this happen to me before. One time in particular, though thankfully it didn't get violent, happened at a bar. You can guess the guy was drunk. My Mother and I frequent this bar whenever I go to visit her, purely for the karaoke, so we were friends with the DJ and bartenders. It was kind of a narrow space getting to the DJ booth between the tables and bar, so when I was going to slip through, a guy, roughly middle-aged or so grabbed me by the waist and pulled me into his lap. Right in front of my Mother. It was clear he was drunk by the way he was slurring and I was quick to get away from him, but it still freaked me out at the time. I was lucky the bar staff did something about it and kicked him out, or I might've chosen to stay at our table the rest of the time we were there. I think I was around twenty one or twenty two and I'm normally a homebody, so bars weren't really my thing. This karaoke thing was the exception.
Look at all the white knights showing up on this post. Yeah, it sucks, and things like this should never happen. Some men tend to get stupid, especially around an open bar, at a wedding, when love/lust is in the air. They are simple creatures that should honestly aspire to do better, especially as far as treatment of women should go. This isn't the case for all men though... People tend to think as if this kind of treatment from men is true for 100% of the male population, but it's not. No one's perfect and in a crowd of people, you're bound to come across a jackass or three. Not saying it's right, or should be expected or even tolerated, all I'm saying is that people shouldn't treat this topic as if this is a problem for all men. Not every guy thinks or acts this way, and in the grand scheme of things, it's a smaller population than you think. Men are getting better as we progress in society, but there will always be some backwards idiots.
It is likely that you were cramping the 'style' of the bride's brother, on the dance floor. He did not want you to take any incriminating photos of him/his friends. Just a thought otherwise doesn't make sense
This is a world issue. the first change starts in ourselves. Its time for an awareness.it should never be ignored the abuse that sometimes can even lead to death. Women were not created to be a man's maid or whore.
Cis-het man here with at least 2 bisexual children, one of them trans. The third one is only 6 so I suppose we shall see. I used to think posts like this were an exaggeration, but that's through my own lens. I speak to my 20 and 18 y/o daughters and frankly I'm horrified at what they deal with. Cis-het men: can we collectively work on not being sociopaths, please? The man brand is suffering because of it!
Women and girls are suffering because of it, but I take your point.
Load More Replies... This just reinforces to me that I was lucky growing up that most of the wedding receptions I went to were limited to punch, mints and mixed nuts, with some dancing. All of the ones I've been to as an adult where there was alcohol involved had crappy situations because people go to get drunk and not to support their friends/family getting married.
The fact that she needed to do this guide is apalling. Always have hated weddings because they always bring the worst on people: From the lameass speeches to the stupid f***s dancing and crashing with everything. My respects to this woman, and would love for her to be able to kick these men in the balls and get a bonus from the one who hires her.
Here's the thing as some of the posted replies in the article point out: It's not a men's issue. It's not a women's issue. It's a SOCIETY issue. Before most of you women get all uppity about this, please note that when some women also get their serious buzz to drunkenness going, that they can also be all over you like a cheap suit. It's just as obnoxious. It's just as wrong. Men and women need to seriously check their circles, realize the ones who can poison a situation, and jettison them before it's too late. Women need to keep two things on them at all times if possible: pepper spray and (if legal), a taser. Men need to have 110% respect for their friends getting married. For f**k's sake it's THEIR day, not yours. Hitting up the wedding photog is zero class. Society itself has become the problem. Perhaps if there were better fathers out there who didn't shirk responsibility, the sons of today wouldn't be so horrendous in their interpersonal actions.
Instead of dealing with the people involved at the time of the many alleged events, what are we - who have nothing to do with any of this - to make of you, who could be anything from a dimwit to a fantasist?
I'm sorry for anyone who gets harassed this way. I feel like if you get caught by a drunk guy around your neck, calling a patrol to come and at least embarrass him publicly is something that needs to be done. By witnesses or victims. Roaches like that need darkness, only when we shine a light early, they won't grow into even bigger monsters
It is most definitely a men's issue. I've worked in male dominate field for 12 years (security) and I'm amazed at how much the culture changed. The men were not horrible to begin with, most were uneducated on how to properly talk with a woman they were attracted to. The decent men in our company would step in on behalf of any woman (staff or not) who was being harassed. They took other men under their wing to educate them on how to be respectful of women. Jerks do not last long in our ranks, they are either educated or scared off.
Here's the deal with me, I don't care who's feelings are hurt or who I embarrass if a man puts his f****** hands on me without my permission or invitation he's going to get a hard kick to the nuts and hopefully that will be the last time I'll have that issue. I'm sick and tired of men feeling like they own the whole world and everybody in it.
Had a similar problem in my years working customer service. I have asperger's and an ENORMOUS disdain for physical contact, and yet people STILL (after the coronavius FINALLY made the world more me-friendly) won't get out of my happy little bubble. I've always enjoyed a 5-10 foot spave between me and other people. In my college years i was told that i was "cold and hostile" just because i was not ok with this rando standing less than a foot away from me.
I wonder if it's time for women to just start doing all of these things to men, that they've been doing for centuries
I got roped into being the wedding photographer for the wedding of a friend of my first wife. I was a fashion photographer at the time. The pair getting married were total demanding d***s from the get-go, and only got worse as the day progressed. It was in the days of film photography, so at the end of the day I was able to give them their photographs WITHOUT ANY F*CKING AROUND, as they so impolitely demanded - I pulled the film out of the 20 or so cans I'd shot and handed the whole dangling mess to them. Very satisfying experience for me.
Thanks for letting us know that you're ok with sexual assault.
Load More Replies... I feel like us, as women, are far too hard on men sometimes. While everythinf said here was true, lol, it doesnt change rhe fact that women do some of these things to men, too. And as noted, yes, usually while drunk. We all simply need more self awareness
In early childhood, boys and girls play together without problems. Around age 8-10, they segregate by sex. Girls do mature faster than boys but by mid-teens they’re even. However, the social segregation leaves a void that causes trouble for both males and females: abuse for the women and loneliness for the men.
The segregation does instill that the other gender is 'other', not like us, so must not be human the same way we are. I don't think its the whole answer, but a contributing factor. Girls don't mature faster, they are taught from birth that behavior is unacceptable. It is tolerated in boys so it only looks like they mature slower.
Load More Replies... Why are you concentrating on teaching women how to physically fight back instead of teaching boys to keep them hands to themselves? Stop putting the onus on the victim and put it where it belongs, on the harasser.
Load More Replies... Apologists who had to google misandry really are an embarrassment. Knock it off.
Load More Replies... I mean even that's kinda creepy if you're trying to work
Load More Replies... Please stop trying to get others to co-sign your bad behavior. This most certainly is not something "we are all guilty of". The fact that you would even think so makes me worry about what actions you have used that excuse to justify.
Load More Replies... Thank you for showing up to prove us right.
Load More Replies... I absolutely will hit the down vote button. Because it's not about the act itself, it's about the difference in power structure. When a woman touches a man inappropriately, he's not afraid that she's going to rape and/or murder him. For every woman, this is an actual fear because they have so much less power in that situation. Treating it with a bored yawn is not a privilege that we have.
Load More Replies... Because these men do *not* listen to anyone that isn't another man.
Load More Replies... If she’s working she’s not available. Hey guys here Misogynist No1
Load More Replies...
129
210