After This Photographer Caught A Record Label Stealing Her Pics, Their Response Made Her Jaw Drop
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With photography being such a primary and highly shared form of communication in the digital age, it is no surprise that people’s copyrights are being increasingly violated. And while most cases are settled in an amicable and respectful way; the photographer politely asks for recognition, payment or the image removed, some people are just assholes.
Concert photographer Adrienne Row-Smith experienced such a case recently, after covering a few bands at a show for Monkey Goose Magazine. It went well and everyone was happy with the results. However, soon after her work was published, she discovered that some of her photographs had been downloaded, re-edited, cropped to remove the watermark. They had been shared by one of the bands and its record label online, for their own commercial use.
“I had reached out to the band first, asking them to politely remove it since they had violated my copyright by editing them,” Adrienne told PetaPixel. “Whomever I was talking to was more than happy to remove the photos (which did not actually happen), and then proceeded to ask me how much I charge to get high-resolution copies for social media that they could use. I told them how much (which is where the 50$ per photo comes from), and then I never heard anything back – which is something I deal with a lot.”
“However, I went and checked and they still had not taken down the photos, so I asked them again (this is where I should have just taken them down myself) but in good faith, I reached out again.”
It is here that the exchange between Adrienne and the head of the record label took place, and as you can see for yourself, it is the height of rudeness and unprofessionalism. Not only does the label refuse to apologize, they actually mock and insult Adrienne in a quite appalling manner. She has chosen not to reveal the name of the record label, instead using the exchange to serve as an example of the everyday reality in the photography business. “I just wanted to share what I had experienced as a photographer in the music industry and that it is not just one person, but a trend,” she said about the incident.
Scroll down to check out how it unfolded for yourself, and let us know what you think in the comments!
(h/t: PetaPixel)
Concert photographer Adrienne Row-Smith had found that the record label she was working had used her photos without permission. “I had reached out to the band first, asking them to politely remove it since they had violated my copyright by editing them”
Surprisingly, this was the record label’s response
People reacted with passion
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Sorry. I'm sick of people not naming and shaming. This guy is an absolute scumbag. His attitude is so infuriating. My blood would boil if he was right in front of me and I'd totally lose it.
The record label is Heretic Records. They are currently trying to delete all evidence of themselves from the internet.
yeah, https://www.theindustryobserver.com.au/record-label-attacks-photographer/
Are you sure? I tried to find out, the band in monkeygoose magazine is The contortionist, and they have two labels listed on wikipedia, heretic records isn't mentioned?? I want to know!!
I was mistaken in my previous comment. There actually is a label called heretics records in the US. They were throughoutly with disappearing, that I could only find their empty website http://hereticrecords.com/ ; their youtube channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPKGSHaIGZPaD-YkpKhPrlA/channels ; their blocked facebook and twitter acounts, and another newsstory about them https://www.worldwide-underground.com/single-post/2018/04/04/Heretic-Records-Caught-Charging-an-Absurd-Amount-For-Signing-Video-Content?fb_comment_id=1760217644050616_1763070853765295
Seriously? They call themselves Heretic Records!? 🤣😂🤣😂
Their actual name is not heretic records. They are just named that way on twitter. "Aussie radio presenter Ti Butler took to Twitter to name the label as Heretic Records"
And the photographer was even polite and very, very patient! If I was her, I would first make them in 2 stotinkis(a literal translation of a Bulgarian expression that basically means "send to hell with swear words"), then find a lawyer, or anyone who could help me sort this out in legal way. I would make this dumb ass's life miserable and I ain't gonna apologise for it at all.
It probably wouldn't take much for the internet to figure out which label it is...
You know folks, NAMING AND SHAMING is something I have started doing for the past 9 years. Goddammit, it WORKS. The missus also does it now, no threats or screaming like a "Karen", just a full-on, single-track, tank-demolition online, on my personal blog, and then linking that to the guilty party's Facebook and social media... Results are always forthcoming. Hit them where it hurts... Social-media.
BAND- THE CONTORTIONIST, at GOOD FIGHT ENTERTAINMENT (on Wikipedia it says they have two record labels so it could be the other one, but I think it's this one. The woman's article was in Monkeygoose magazine.
And there you have it - Toni wins the internet for the day! :-)
I'm sick of artists being so polite and kind when companies steal from them and treat them like sh*t. It perpetuates the insanity. I hope she sues their pants off now!
Shame used to be a functioning part of society, and it worked well in almost ever case. Now we have heard "don't judge me" so much and in every instance, WE feel ashamed to shame someone who society needs to put in their place. My parents never spanked me but the treat of being spanked in public, where witnesses could see my punishment for bad behavior made me jump back in line EVERY TIME. Let's start shaming those who need it! Like this sorry excuse for a human!
I think they are trying to shame the compajnies by showing themselves as the better person or something, but that doesn’t work very well when companies only care about money and public image.
@ Suzy. Yes. If they made it to court, they would have to prove she lied - but in the meantime, she would have to pay to defend herself, and one thing companies are good at is dragging out legal proceedings until the other side is too broke to continue. I like the way the idiots are down voting my post - when it’s a simple statement of fact. If she wants to sue, there are certain things she has to avoid. Babbling like an idiot and posting nasty things on the internet would NOT help her case at all. In fact, it might lead to a dismissal.
This was so infuriating to read and indeed bloodboiling that I tried to find the record label's name. A commenter here: https://petapixel.com/2018/04/27/record-label-insults-photographer-after-stealing-her-photos/#disqus_thread names "Heretic records". Apparantly, this is a new label; googling them leads to results like "You can upload demos at Ihateheretic@gmail.com". This seems an appropriate name, no? :)
It looks like they've shut down their Twitter and Facebook pages. If you can't stand the hate, pay "kiddo" for her work.
Upload demos?!! They steal a photo, how many think they wouldn't steal music?
Heretic Records. Unfortunatly they have already taken their Twitter and Facebook down
They made a new page https://www.facebook.com/ihateheretics/
Yes sometimes trying to “take the high road” and not “name names” doesn’t make you look like the better or more mature person, it’s just makes you look weak sometimes. She is going to have to get tougher.
I agree, I would splash his and his companies name wherever I could, before nailing the arsehole in court.
Owner of that record label, tell him what you think :) https://www.facebook.com/Colbybellvocals/?ref=br_rs
Its a fake. Why would the dude who is supposed to be shamed screenshoting the conversation.
Fearless Records
im wrong, please ignore. This is why naming names is important. Show other artists who to stay away from.
Actually Travis I’m glad that you made this mistake (and quickly corrected it). It reminded me of the other side of the issue.
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If she has to sue the company, they could countersue for libel. This is a legal matter, not whining in the schoolyard. This is standard and ANY lawyer worth his/her salt would say the same thing.
They would have to prove she lied.
"kiddo" and "aloud". Kind of says all we need to know.
I cringed every time this high-and-mighty jerk used "aloud".
"shotty"
The name of the company that she had problems with is now known, and people are hating on them so much for what they wrote and did that they have taken down all of their social media.
I want to know who it is, so I can send them some hate!! So would up by this arrogant, idiotic twat!!!
Firstly, how do you consistently spell allowed as aloud? Also the whole I don't have to pay you because i'm giving you exposure does not work. If I post a movie online and I'm exposing it for free to people, I'm a pirate. Not to mention when will the cycle end. Some will see the photos and decide to also "exposure" the potgrapher ands so on. In the end payment will be exposure
The same way that there is a certain person who shall not be named that spells “counsel” as “council”.
Wait what?!!! This is soo unacceptable whether or not the band felt the pictures needed editing and even went ahead to use it in their publicity works. Recognition is not enough. She needs to pay her bills!!! I'm sorry but although i love how she handled it calmly, if i were her, i'd lawyer up and sue these ungrateful (in their own words) people.
Wonder the reaction if she "edited" their music and sent it out to 400k ppl?
Reads to me that the editing she is referring to politely consists mostly of cropping off her name/adress info. How can they even dare claim "exposure" if they have clipped off the info that would actually get people to het site is beyond men
Reading this was horrible, I feel for her. What concerns me though is that there seemed to be a lack of understanding by the label person that those pictures were taken for a publication, she was sent to cover it, and then the pictures were taken from those published...while so rude and ignorant it seemed like they were fighting what they thought was some random persons pics being taken from some fangirl upload. Not a professionals work incorrectly obtained. No excuse either way but it read to me like whomever took them told Papa Bear some white lies. I do also wish the photographer had not said they were dorry if anything seemed like anything, she had every right to request a take down, and yes that anyone in the music industry would take someone elses work without payment is ridiculous... the I have told others and they sll say stuff made me laugh ALOUD.
Even "some random fan" would still own the copyright for their work.
You used the word "Aloud" correctly!
Sorry and all, tablet typing in the dark excuses .
it's another 'think' coming, not another 'thing' coming. also, I've managed to read the whole article without taking in the name of the band, which is good as the least attention they can get form this the better, the photographer however should be picked up by an actually good band who will pay her for some great photos. The only other good thing to come out of this for her is she may be a little more careful and hopefully more aware when dealing with dickass bands. P.S please come to the UK and take pics of my band, we're awesome and not dickasses.
Seriously, this is image pirating - the utter hypocrisy of the label here is breath-taking.
I'd dearly love to see this label try to take a music pirate to court, and have the pirater throw the defence at them that it doens't matter that they stole the music because over 400k people have heard it at concerts or digitally...
Good reply, Dian.
where is your awesome not-dickass band - love to see
didnt work - shame
steller uk band on facebook ( I think that still works)
didnt mean that i wouldnt want to hear them - obviously
just meant a picture -- lol - northern england here
how accurate do you want me to be to our location?
https://www.facebook.com/stelleruk/ sorry, pasted into the wrong answer!
Maybe they wrote it as "thing" in reference to Judas Priest song since it's a band related thing, but I guess there's no way of telling.
Somehow I doubt that someone who can’t spell “kiddo” is bright enough to think of that.
https://www.facebook.com/stelleruk/ here ya go!
APPARENTLY IT'S HERETIC RECORDS.
I really feel for the photographer. She is 100% right that her copyright has been blatantly infringed. She has a right to payment either fully upfront or on a perpetuity basis based on views etc. From what I can understand she was only asking for 50 dollars as well which makes the response she received even more disgusting. The problem is taking these assholes to court would cost a huge amount of money which the photographer can't afford. The only option she has is to name and shame but even that may have negative repercussions for her. Just another sad example of the little guy being trampled on. I really hope a lawyer sees this and takes her case pro bono (ie - for free).
Let's crowdsource a lawsuit against this jerk. I'd be happy to chip in some money to see them pay for her photos and to be publicly unmasked. The world should know when someone behaves like this.
o_o he spelled "allowed" wrong
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nobody really cares...
Her photos are awesome! Half ass my ass
So horrible. What a horrible man. But the pictures are amazing
what band??
Noun. DARVO (uncountable) Deny, Attack, and Reverse Victim and Offender. A behavior of perpetrators of wrongdoing (especially sexual offenders), when accused of attacking their victim, reversing the roles of victim and offender.
wiktionary
The one commentator is right, though: She needs to charge proper rates and do stuff like this via letter, not text. The amount of theft going on in media, music and fashion is insane.
FYI, the name of the record label is Heretic Records. They have already deactivated their Twitter and Facebook. Still, I'm going to name and shame.
I tried to find out, thought the band was the contortionist, they have two labels mentioned on Wikipedia and heretic records not mentioned. I want to know who the label is, are you 100% sure?? Thanks.
https://twitter.com/tibutler/status/990181421221265408?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theindustryobserver.com.au%2Frecord-label-attacks-photographer%2F&tfw_creator=theindustry_o&tfw_site=theindustry_o
I must have missed the BARTER part of the agreement. In any case the very least the company sould have done is FIRE whoever responded to this young lady. I'm very sure they lied about the education they claimed on the resume. But wording makes me think it's the Band Manager LACK of PROFESSIONALISM Aside: Definition of shotty per MW dictionary -er/-est .... : hard and round like a pellet of shot shotty lymph nodes. How about Shoddy instead. alot is A (SPACE) LOT ... aloud obviously ALLOWED...I could go on and on but...... What seriously PISSES ME OFF.....are the not so veiled attempts at supposed verbal Blacklisting he/she mentions more than once! One can only hope the BAND has fired this person from representing them in any way shape or form.
I just looked at her Instagram and she is actually a really good photographer.
Sue them! I would love to see the record label and the band paying her not only $1200 per photo, but also indemnity for misconduct, illegal approprietation of her work and, for the stress caused to her!
I bet he's the kind of person who expects to get everything for nothing and then would be the first to want to sue anyone for downloading a song from his band for free.
Is "shotty" even a word? Maybe they meant "shoddy" or "shitty." The writer has horrible grammar and spelling skills.
I cant believe they are trying to gaslight her by calling her work "shotty." She's a pro and knows what she's doing. They liked the pics or they wouldn't have used them.
They also need to learn to spell. "Y9u," and "alot" are not words
Talk to them like you own your own business, because essentially you do. He's right in that taking photos doesn't mean you can make a living as a photographer, because of scum bags like him, you have to learn how to negotiate and cover yourself.
I agree, and others on here have said similarly as you. Legally, things seem to be hampered by the fact that the record company is in the US while she's in Canada, making it an international copyrights infringement: much more difficult to litigate. Regardless, I thought she was much nicer than she should've been under the circumstances.
One of my husband's (many) hobbies is that of an amateur photographer. He has spent thousands on equipment over the years and was constantly going to Meetup Groups to take photos. They would provide beautiful models with professional hair & makeup & he would take the photos. It was clearly stated to be a "TFP" event - Trade for Portfolio. The models would give him credit for his work and he would also state the name of the model in his. BUT - this was mutually agreed upon in advance. To think some asshole could just assume to appropriate your work is a legally prosecutable offense and I wish more artists would take advantage of it.
In the USA, you could sue, and win, treble damages. The going rate for rights-managed photography is IN THE THOUSANDS of dollars, and is highly restrictive. "Commercial Use" is not contingent on the seller making a profit, so for a viewership of over 400K subscribers, treble damages to them could be well over $US250,000. Yes, you read that right. We're talking 6 figures. Pricing is determined by many factors, including market, viewership, length of use (1 publication, 1 week, 1 year, etc.). Social media use is typically priced IN ADDITION to print use, and "reprints" demand payments as well. $50 per photo is way too low. By the way, it sounds like that response from the record label was written by a Nigerian Price looking to have you launder fake money.
this young lady shouldn't have had to go through that. she should have given them a "cease and desist", and then filed suit. (the "professional" admonishing her needs to learn grammar and spelling - he makes me cringe.) hope she scraped them for every dime they had!
Theft of someone's livelihood is no joke, and adding insult on top dismaying. The attitude is all too common, though, especially in the age of the internet. The hostility, the attack for a reasonable request is meant to intimidate and bully.
The poor spelling in the responses from the spokesperson for this record company is an indication of his or her lack of professionalism. He or she is in no position to criticize anyone for their professionalism or lack thereof and I suspect the bluster is a cover for an admission of guilt. You need to sue. I expect you could easily find a pro bono attorney to help you bring this jerk to his or her knees.
Record label name is HERETIC RECORDS.
Btw their FB is back up it seems. https://www.facebook.com/ihateheretics/
"You need alot of education here".... That, in and of itself, speaks volumes aside from his or her response to the photographer.
What an absolute douchebag.
Heretic Records Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/ihateheretics/ Then do/say what you want…
Blurring the band's identity is professional, but the harsh cynic in me wants to know who they are so that they can be avoided.
The only thing worse than their attitude was their spelling and use of grammar!
CAN ANYONE TELL ME WHICH RECORD LABEL?!!?
https://twitter.com/tibutler/status/990181421221265408?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theindustryobserver.com.au%2Frecord-label-attacks-photographer%2F&tfw_creator=theindustry_o&tfw_site=theindustry_o
This sounds like a story for #PhilipDeFranco
I counted nine mistakes in just his first comment.
She is too nice. My responses would have been way meaner if I were her.
What an a$$. He can't even spell properly, soooo many spelling errors it's unbelievable he has a job. Did she take him to court? What happened in the end?
This guy is just pathetic.
The name of head of the record label (the person answering her messages) should be posted. If that's the way he conducts himself/herself, then by no means should that be a private thing. Name that son (daughter) of a bitch... So "multiple people are informed" of what a scumbag he/she is.
Her appologetic response makes me more furious than what they say. She should in no way applogize or explain, definitely not more than once, when their approach is this rude and outragous from the start. Just sue them, publically shame them, call them out on this. This is NOT ok.
I want to know what band and (more importantly) what record label.
Sue them.
So, what did happen next? Did she wins somewhere? That's so inacceptable, what a bunch of shitbags thieves.
Nicolas Letarte like
Courtcase. That's the way to settle such things...
I'm infuriated and speechless. This photographer is amazing for not losing it and reacting politely/calmly.
Wtf, like the person, said to go to their show and then use video recorder and record the show and use that to make them see how it feels ~ xD
Ohh boy.... when somebody will use my Drone footage, even it may be biggest sh!t footage of all times, i do require to follow some copyright rules. Adrienne you have managed this "manager" brilliantly and with charm.. I have to learn a lot from you!!! good luck with your business.. It may get super-hard for you now - at least according how many bridges you have had burned :))))))) have an awesome day, Martin
I hope she sued!
I wish a lawyer would be worth it in a situation like this, that straight up harassment is horrifying.
Gosh, I hope she sued that jerk!
I think she should put out a hit on this rude loser and contact an attorney at the very least. If her work was so terrible, why did they use it? Excuse me for using the word "loser" to describe this idiot when what I meant to call him is a prick!
NAME AND SHAME PLEASE!!
Such a 'shotty' photo that it got 400k views?
This guy makes me think he is having multiple problems with other services he's "used". Why do I think that? "Me thinks he doth protest to much" - as Shakespeare said, and he said it best.
Isn't there an organisation that takes action to protect copywrite in such circumstances? These communications really do need to be official, rather than polite and friendly as this photographer has shown.
Get a copyright lawyer involved. They used your work, modified your work and have the gall to claim you are being greedy? Time to show them what greed is, then donate the proceeds to an Art charity.
if the author of this story is unwilling to name the band and record label, then i'm saying this story is completely made up. i know this happens to photographers as i am one, but if you're going to say this happened, then let the world know who did it, so people can be on the lookout for this crap.
Time to talk to a lawyer and sue.
I would also alert them to the penalties for blatant copyright violations: Infringer pays the actual dollar amount of damages and profits. The law provides a range from $200 to $150,000 for each work infringed. Infringer pays for all attorneys fees and court costs. The Court can issue an injunction to stop the infringing acts. The Court can impound the illegal works. The infringer can go to jail.
I do wish she had given the name of the company. People need to know what kind of people they're doing business with.
Oooh so that's how you make a label fail!! Some people truly should learn that are not fitted for a job and I really hope that the photographer started a lawsuit.
A copyright is meaningless unless you can afford the legal costs to protect it.
Please tell me she sued.
I am guessing this was posted as creative commons with a watermark? That they can display with out changing, if they want the watermark off then they need to pay you for that? and they just cut that off to meet there needs. They could have had dialog to move the watermark,they could have worked to help you out and promote your photo for you to sell it and enjoy the usage on the page.(artist helping artist shouldn't be unheard of) not sure why this happens with photos and art,,when it takes dialog to make it work. This is not the only artist I am hearing these stories..Mural painters are getting work turned into tee shirts for sales..then you talking about Public art turned into a product. Even Mural are still street art and illegal even if the owner allows you to do it. As an artist I watch these things..to see what the outcomes are..I think one day I will get my share study stolen like this..
Theft of someone's livelihood is no joke, and adding insult on top dismaying.
The poor spelling in the responses from the spokesperson from Heretic Records, speaks loudly as to her or her professionalism. This person is in no position to criticize anyone for their professionalism or lack thereof and I suspect all of the bluster is a cover for an admission of guilt. You need to sue. You could probably find a pro bono attorney more than willing to help you bring this idiot to his or her knees.
I am left wondering whether they would have treated a male photographer the same way?
Think of the irony if Ms. Row-Smith would release the name of this band so their music could be used on whatever 'nonprofit' venture of their choosing. Let's see if the band likes their work being used without permission. Whomever is representing this record label doesn't have a clue about anything (spelling especially). Profit has nothing to do with "rights". Whether they're making money from stealing someone else's work isn't how copyrights work. It's the author's right to decide how the work is used.
Sad thing about this is, if you post your images anywhere to the public, especially on social media, then you are giving a free use of that same photo. This took place in New York. A guy was online on the social media site, he stole a lot of posts from people, added his own smart ass remarks and then turned around and sold those pics and posts and made millions off of it. It went to court for copyright violation and guess what, the court sided with the thief and gave no consideration to the person in the photos. So with that, if you post it online to any social media site and then try to recover your rights, you are in for a shock because you gave it away on social media in the first place. It's the law and the courts will stand by it every time.
Please cite the actual case name.
She should have NAMED and SHAMED this A-hole and his company for this. People like this jerkoff think they can push little business owners around just because they know they'll never see a lawsuit. They think they can do whatever they please and get away with it. Good for her for putting this out for all to see. Karma is a bitch baby, and it's coming for this prick!
I think just desserts would be using their music in a commercial and refusing to pay them any royalties but instead saying the same thing back to them that they should be thankful that someone used it...”Just because you can play an instrument does not make you a musician. You should learn that.”
This person needs a nice punch in the face
So did they stop using the photos? Next time she could take legal actions instead.
Lol wow ...so if or when there muisc is pirated we could make the argument it's free publicity lol
so did she sue them?
Am I wrong in thinking that her photos are badass? They look great.
SO I SEE ENGLISH CREDITS ARE NOT A REQUIREMENT FOR RECORD EXECUTIVES?!
My god.. some people! :/
I BELIEVE IT'S 'THE CONTORTIONIST' AT 'GOODFIGHT ENTERTAINMENT' ??
Tell me if I'm wrong.
This makes me real angry ..she is so kind and the other one.. just don't gets it
uuuuuUUUUUH WTF IS WRONG WITH THAT SCUMBAG?!
Why would you not share who the record company is? They have probably done it to other photographers and will do it to more. I know nothing about either business but I do know how to conduct business and this is not it. Very fine lady that I would assume anyone would enjoy working with.
So rude
The band person
If you google her and find the article in Monkey Goose magazine, her band photographs are amazing!
sue them, that'll teach them
Obviously when someone gone shares music with loads of people for free it's ok because they're just giving them free publicity!
Condescending much ?
Why blur out who that dick really is? What a douche.
She may be suing. Her lawyer no doubt told her not to name names until the legal end of things is finished. It’s pretty standard advice.
Sooooo, I wanna know how this ended. Lawsuit?
This band should be forced to give away their work for free. And then be scolded about it.
Allowed, not aloud - they mean different things. That is all.
Allowed. Jeez man
This "representative" of the record label, CANNOT even spell!! They are in big trouble if THAT is their spokesperson! Rude, uneducated, unprofessional!
Really would like to know who this band is. They need to be called out on this .
The record rep is a jerk - One thing she can try is to write to the CEO of the company and to the band's manager to advise them that they have a problem and ask them to remedy this immediately. As others have said, why should you respect their intellectual property if they are not prepared to respect others. From experience the CEO wont personally look into this, but they should pass it on to someone else to handle, and when a CEO asks you to do something... people generally do.
Your photos are great!
Fake
fake
Sorry. I'm sick of people not naming and shaming. This guy is an absolute scumbag. His attitude is so infuriating. My blood would boil if he was right in front of me and I'd totally lose it.
The record label is Heretic Records. They are currently trying to delete all evidence of themselves from the internet.
yeah, https://www.theindustryobserver.com.au/record-label-attacks-photographer/
Are you sure? I tried to find out, the band in monkeygoose magazine is The contortionist, and they have two labels listed on wikipedia, heretic records isn't mentioned?? I want to know!!
I was mistaken in my previous comment. There actually is a label called heretics records in the US. They were throughoutly with disappearing, that I could only find their empty website http://hereticrecords.com/ ; their youtube channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPKGSHaIGZPaD-YkpKhPrlA/channels ; their blocked facebook and twitter acounts, and another newsstory about them https://www.worldwide-underground.com/single-post/2018/04/04/Heretic-Records-Caught-Charging-an-Absurd-Amount-For-Signing-Video-Content?fb_comment_id=1760217644050616_1763070853765295
Seriously? They call themselves Heretic Records!? 🤣😂🤣😂
Their actual name is not heretic records. They are just named that way on twitter. "Aussie radio presenter Ti Butler took to Twitter to name the label as Heretic Records"
And the photographer was even polite and very, very patient! If I was her, I would first make them in 2 stotinkis(a literal translation of a Bulgarian expression that basically means "send to hell with swear words"), then find a lawyer, or anyone who could help me sort this out in legal way. I would make this dumb ass's life miserable and I ain't gonna apologise for it at all.
It probably wouldn't take much for the internet to figure out which label it is...
You know folks, NAMING AND SHAMING is something I have started doing for the past 9 years. Goddammit, it WORKS. The missus also does it now, no threats or screaming like a "Karen", just a full-on, single-track, tank-demolition online, on my personal blog, and then linking that to the guilty party's Facebook and social media... Results are always forthcoming. Hit them where it hurts... Social-media.
BAND- THE CONTORTIONIST, at GOOD FIGHT ENTERTAINMENT (on Wikipedia it says they have two record labels so it could be the other one, but I think it's this one. The woman's article was in Monkeygoose magazine.
And there you have it - Toni wins the internet for the day! :-)
I'm sick of artists being so polite and kind when companies steal from them and treat them like sh*t. It perpetuates the insanity. I hope she sues their pants off now!
Shame used to be a functioning part of society, and it worked well in almost ever case. Now we have heard "don't judge me" so much and in every instance, WE feel ashamed to shame someone who society needs to put in their place. My parents never spanked me but the treat of being spanked in public, where witnesses could see my punishment for bad behavior made me jump back in line EVERY TIME. Let's start shaming those who need it! Like this sorry excuse for a human!
I think they are trying to shame the compajnies by showing themselves as the better person or something, but that doesn’t work very well when companies only care about money and public image.
@ Suzy. Yes. If they made it to court, they would have to prove she lied - but in the meantime, she would have to pay to defend herself, and one thing companies are good at is dragging out legal proceedings until the other side is too broke to continue. I like the way the idiots are down voting my post - when it’s a simple statement of fact. If she wants to sue, there are certain things she has to avoid. Babbling like an idiot and posting nasty things on the internet would NOT help her case at all. In fact, it might lead to a dismissal.
This was so infuriating to read and indeed bloodboiling that I tried to find the record label's name. A commenter here: https://petapixel.com/2018/04/27/record-label-insults-photographer-after-stealing-her-photos/#disqus_thread names "Heretic records". Apparantly, this is a new label; googling them leads to results like "You can upload demos at Ihateheretic@gmail.com". This seems an appropriate name, no? :)
It looks like they've shut down their Twitter and Facebook pages. If you can't stand the hate, pay "kiddo" for her work.
Upload demos?!! They steal a photo, how many think they wouldn't steal music?
Heretic Records. Unfortunatly they have already taken their Twitter and Facebook down
They made a new page https://www.facebook.com/ihateheretics/
Yes sometimes trying to “take the high road” and not “name names” doesn’t make you look like the better or more mature person, it’s just makes you look weak sometimes. She is going to have to get tougher.
I agree, I would splash his and his companies name wherever I could, before nailing the arsehole in court.
Owner of that record label, tell him what you think :) https://www.facebook.com/Colbybellvocals/?ref=br_rs
Its a fake. Why would the dude who is supposed to be shamed screenshoting the conversation.
Fearless Records
im wrong, please ignore. This is why naming names is important. Show other artists who to stay away from.
Actually Travis I’m glad that you made this mistake (and quickly corrected it). It reminded me of the other side of the issue.
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If she has to sue the company, they could countersue for libel. This is a legal matter, not whining in the schoolyard. This is standard and ANY lawyer worth his/her salt would say the same thing.
They would have to prove she lied.
"kiddo" and "aloud". Kind of says all we need to know.
I cringed every time this high-and-mighty jerk used "aloud".
"shotty"
The name of the company that she had problems with is now known, and people are hating on them so much for what they wrote and did that they have taken down all of their social media.
I want to know who it is, so I can send them some hate!! So would up by this arrogant, idiotic twat!!!
Firstly, how do you consistently spell allowed as aloud? Also the whole I don't have to pay you because i'm giving you exposure does not work. If I post a movie online and I'm exposing it for free to people, I'm a pirate. Not to mention when will the cycle end. Some will see the photos and decide to also "exposure" the potgrapher ands so on. In the end payment will be exposure
The same way that there is a certain person who shall not be named that spells “counsel” as “council”.
Wait what?!!! This is soo unacceptable whether or not the band felt the pictures needed editing and even went ahead to use it in their publicity works. Recognition is not enough. She needs to pay her bills!!! I'm sorry but although i love how she handled it calmly, if i were her, i'd lawyer up and sue these ungrateful (in their own words) people.
Wonder the reaction if she "edited" their music and sent it out to 400k ppl?
Reads to me that the editing she is referring to politely consists mostly of cropping off her name/adress info. How can they even dare claim "exposure" if they have clipped off the info that would actually get people to het site is beyond men
Reading this was horrible, I feel for her. What concerns me though is that there seemed to be a lack of understanding by the label person that those pictures were taken for a publication, she was sent to cover it, and then the pictures were taken from those published...while so rude and ignorant it seemed like they were fighting what they thought was some random persons pics being taken from some fangirl upload. Not a professionals work incorrectly obtained. No excuse either way but it read to me like whomever took them told Papa Bear some white lies. I do also wish the photographer had not said they were dorry if anything seemed like anything, she had every right to request a take down, and yes that anyone in the music industry would take someone elses work without payment is ridiculous... the I have told others and they sll say stuff made me laugh ALOUD.
Even "some random fan" would still own the copyright for their work.
You used the word "Aloud" correctly!
Sorry and all, tablet typing in the dark excuses .
it's another 'think' coming, not another 'thing' coming. also, I've managed to read the whole article without taking in the name of the band, which is good as the least attention they can get form this the better, the photographer however should be picked up by an actually good band who will pay her for some great photos. The only other good thing to come out of this for her is she may be a little more careful and hopefully more aware when dealing with dickass bands. P.S please come to the UK and take pics of my band, we're awesome and not dickasses.
Seriously, this is image pirating - the utter hypocrisy of the label here is breath-taking.
I'd dearly love to see this label try to take a music pirate to court, and have the pirater throw the defence at them that it doens't matter that they stole the music because over 400k people have heard it at concerts or digitally...
Good reply, Dian.
where is your awesome not-dickass band - love to see
didnt work - shame
steller uk band on facebook ( I think that still works)
didnt mean that i wouldnt want to hear them - obviously
just meant a picture -- lol - northern england here
how accurate do you want me to be to our location?
https://www.facebook.com/stelleruk/ sorry, pasted into the wrong answer!
Maybe they wrote it as "thing" in reference to Judas Priest song since it's a band related thing, but I guess there's no way of telling.
Somehow I doubt that someone who can’t spell “kiddo” is bright enough to think of that.
https://www.facebook.com/stelleruk/ here ya go!
APPARENTLY IT'S HERETIC RECORDS.
I really feel for the photographer. She is 100% right that her copyright has been blatantly infringed. She has a right to payment either fully upfront or on a perpetuity basis based on views etc. From what I can understand she was only asking for 50 dollars as well which makes the response she received even more disgusting. The problem is taking these assholes to court would cost a huge amount of money which the photographer can't afford. The only option she has is to name and shame but even that may have negative repercussions for her. Just another sad example of the little guy being trampled on. I really hope a lawyer sees this and takes her case pro bono (ie - for free).
Let's crowdsource a lawsuit against this jerk. I'd be happy to chip in some money to see them pay for her photos and to be publicly unmasked. The world should know when someone behaves like this.
o_o he spelled "allowed" wrong
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nobody really cares...
Her photos are awesome! Half ass my ass
So horrible. What a horrible man. But the pictures are amazing
what band??
Noun. DARVO (uncountable) Deny, Attack, and Reverse Victim and Offender. A behavior of perpetrators of wrongdoing (especially sexual offenders), when accused of attacking their victim, reversing the roles of victim and offender.
wiktionary
The one commentator is right, though: She needs to charge proper rates and do stuff like this via letter, not text. The amount of theft going on in media, music and fashion is insane.
FYI, the name of the record label is Heretic Records. They have already deactivated their Twitter and Facebook. Still, I'm going to name and shame.
I tried to find out, thought the band was the contortionist, they have two labels mentioned on Wikipedia and heretic records not mentioned. I want to know who the label is, are you 100% sure?? Thanks.
https://twitter.com/tibutler/status/990181421221265408?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theindustryobserver.com.au%2Frecord-label-attacks-photographer%2F&tfw_creator=theindustry_o&tfw_site=theindustry_o
I must have missed the BARTER part of the agreement. In any case the very least the company sould have done is FIRE whoever responded to this young lady. I'm very sure they lied about the education they claimed on the resume. But wording makes me think it's the Band Manager LACK of PROFESSIONALISM Aside: Definition of shotty per MW dictionary -er/-est .... : hard and round like a pellet of shot shotty lymph nodes. How about Shoddy instead. alot is A (SPACE) LOT ... aloud obviously ALLOWED...I could go on and on but...... What seriously PISSES ME OFF.....are the not so veiled attempts at supposed verbal Blacklisting he/she mentions more than once! One can only hope the BAND has fired this person from representing them in any way shape or form.
I just looked at her Instagram and she is actually a really good photographer.
Sue them! I would love to see the record label and the band paying her not only $1200 per photo, but also indemnity for misconduct, illegal approprietation of her work and, for the stress caused to her!
I bet he's the kind of person who expects to get everything for nothing and then would be the first to want to sue anyone for downloading a song from his band for free.
Is "shotty" even a word? Maybe they meant "shoddy" or "shitty." The writer has horrible grammar and spelling skills.
I cant believe they are trying to gaslight her by calling her work "shotty." She's a pro and knows what she's doing. They liked the pics or they wouldn't have used them.
They also need to learn to spell. "Y9u," and "alot" are not words
Talk to them like you own your own business, because essentially you do. He's right in that taking photos doesn't mean you can make a living as a photographer, because of scum bags like him, you have to learn how to negotiate and cover yourself.
I agree, and others on here have said similarly as you. Legally, things seem to be hampered by the fact that the record company is in the US while she's in Canada, making it an international copyrights infringement: much more difficult to litigate. Regardless, I thought she was much nicer than she should've been under the circumstances.
One of my husband's (many) hobbies is that of an amateur photographer. He has spent thousands on equipment over the years and was constantly going to Meetup Groups to take photos. They would provide beautiful models with professional hair & makeup & he would take the photos. It was clearly stated to be a "TFP" event - Trade for Portfolio. The models would give him credit for his work and he would also state the name of the model in his. BUT - this was mutually agreed upon in advance. To think some asshole could just assume to appropriate your work is a legally prosecutable offense and I wish more artists would take advantage of it.
In the USA, you could sue, and win, treble damages. The going rate for rights-managed photography is IN THE THOUSANDS of dollars, and is highly restrictive. "Commercial Use" is not contingent on the seller making a profit, so for a viewership of over 400K subscribers, treble damages to them could be well over $US250,000. Yes, you read that right. We're talking 6 figures. Pricing is determined by many factors, including market, viewership, length of use (1 publication, 1 week, 1 year, etc.). Social media use is typically priced IN ADDITION to print use, and "reprints" demand payments as well. $50 per photo is way too low. By the way, it sounds like that response from the record label was written by a Nigerian Price looking to have you launder fake money.
this young lady shouldn't have had to go through that. she should have given them a "cease and desist", and then filed suit. (the "professional" admonishing her needs to learn grammar and spelling - he makes me cringe.) hope she scraped them for every dime they had!
Theft of someone's livelihood is no joke, and adding insult on top dismaying. The attitude is all too common, though, especially in the age of the internet. The hostility, the attack for a reasonable request is meant to intimidate and bully.
The poor spelling in the responses from the spokesperson for this record company is an indication of his or her lack of professionalism. He or she is in no position to criticize anyone for their professionalism or lack thereof and I suspect the bluster is a cover for an admission of guilt. You need to sue. I expect you could easily find a pro bono attorney to help you bring this jerk to his or her knees.
Record label name is HERETIC RECORDS.
Btw their FB is back up it seems. https://www.facebook.com/ihateheretics/
"You need alot of education here".... That, in and of itself, speaks volumes aside from his or her response to the photographer.
What an absolute douchebag.
Heretic Records Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/ihateheretics/ Then do/say what you want…
Blurring the band's identity is professional, but the harsh cynic in me wants to know who they are so that they can be avoided.