Twitter Thread With 38 Reasons Why The School System Is Ableist Goes Viral
The education system is a topic that nearly everybody has an opinion about (a bit like the coronavirus) and has their theories on how to fix. And while our opinions might diverge, most of us can agree that it’s something that can (and should) be improved in some countries. It’s just a question of how, to what extent, and to what purpose.
One viral Twitter thread with 151k likes is causing a lot of debate online. User THE1EL3VEN stated that the school system is ‘ableist’ and listed her reasons why. An overwhelming number of Twitter users rushed to share their own reasons why school is ableist and praised the original poster for pointing out the flaws in the system.
Such a large amount of support for the thread shows that the underlying issues related to ableism in education are very real and are obviously important to a lot of young people. Ignoring these issues could lead to further problems down the line, as well. This is making us wonder, how the youngest generations are going to change the school system if so many of their members are aware of the major problems.
However, a minority of readers had a different opinion. Some critics had an issue with the fact that THE1EL3VEN seemingly found nearly every aspect of school life and following any rules to be problematic. According to some commenters, school is supposed to prepare you for adult life, not ignore reality and useful skills. But most people were in support of the original poster. What do you think of THE1EL3VEN’s thread? Do you agree or disagree with her statement that school is ableist? Why? Have a read and share your thoughts with everyone in the comment section.
One Twitter user sparked a discussion online when she listed the reasons why school is ableist
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With so many -isms floating around in modern life, it can be easy to get lost between all of them. In case you didn’t know, ableism is discrimination and prejudice against people with disabilities and in favor of able-bodied people.
According to Chicago-based organization ‘Access Living’ that aims to protect civil rights, challenge stereotypes, and champion social reforms, ableism is a word that’s often left out of debates.
“The world wasn’t built with people with disabilities in mind, and because of that, the world we live in is inherently ‘ableist,’” explains Ashley Eisenmenger. She stresses that at the core of ableism is the assumption that disabled people require ‘fixing’ and that they’re defined by their disability.
Ableism can take many forms. Some of them overt, like segregating students with disabilities into separate schools. Some of them subtle like ‘ableism microaggressions’ which can include saying that something’s ‘retarded’ or that someone’s crazy. Eisenmenger says that words and phrases like this imply that disability is something that’s ‘bad’ rather than a “normal, inevitable part of the human experience.”
Other people pitched in with their own opinions about the education system being ableist
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So teaching pupils skills they will need in most jobs is ableist? Huh, who knew.
There's a difference in choosing to go into a job where you will need these skills, and being forced into these "skills". Speaking as neurodivergent myself, I could never work in retail, could never have an office job or be in a position that I'm face to face with a lot of people. There's plenty of jobs that don't require this. I'm in the UK and honestly? Both the UK and the US school systems need to step up their game when it comes to dealing with the mental health of their students. I've long believed that around the world, schools should have a class on mental health, and on the fact that not everyone is neurotypical. I'm not saying that everything has to change, but people do need to be more understanding.
No one is forcing anyone go "go into retail" They do, however, want you to be able to walk out of school with an education. Honestly. It's distressing how fragile people are.
So I'm dyslexic and 59 years old but I was "forced" to learn to read which certainly helped with medical school. I suggest that instead of making excuses for not doing something you find difficult, find a way to work around it. Boomer out!
You could work in those fields, you just wouldn’t excel in them. This is part of the problem of being so “I can’t”-ish. It’s anti intellectual.
Those are two different things: 1) All these skills are best learned in school, or you won't know what you can & like in later life (going into a job with no preparation ... no thanks). 2) The mental health of the student is indeed something to take serious, we can not forget their well being, they are young people who have to enjoy those years afterall (and learn what they want for their future in the progress).
@von Funnyname. Indeed, understanding is a two way street. For instance, if a child starts stimming, you have to understand that they aren't doing it to spite you. They are doing it because they really can't stop. In that case, bubblegum, fidget spinners and music? Hella useful. Calming the student down and accepting that they will stim whether they want to or not is better than telling them off and possibly incurring a overstimulated meltdown. Any other case where a student brings out bubblegum? Put that in the bin. Simple as that.
Also I do not advocate for special treatment. I advocate for treatment which will put me on the same level as my peers so that I can properly learn.
Understanding is a two-way street. It's not the school's responsibility to aid a child with their emotional illiteracy -- and even still, they have guidance counselors to help with that as best as they can. They are occupational therapists that are there to help children develop. As far as the classes, I'm not sure what's available now, but when I was in school, we had to take child development. We had to take health, which tackled emotional issues. We had to take psychology also. They can't spend the whole day teaching people how to be okay with emotions, they aren't therapists. They are math teachers, science teachers, music teachers.
However, changing the rules so drastically would result in these new rules being taken advantage of, most definitely. :I
Being Gen X myself, I do get your point...up to a point. I both loved and loathed school. I was academically gifted and loved learning-a happy nerd - but due to extreme anxiety (had a stress ulcer at 14) and a bad stammer, the active vocal participation part of school was hell on earth. And no, it didn't "prepare me for the real world", it merely ensured the onset of panic attacks when called on to present or speak up later in life. I agree kids shouldn't be sheltered or coddled, but it should be handled case-by-case. Repeat after me: We Are All Individuals 😉
Some people cannot be "taught" certain things because their brain and/or body will NOT allow them to do those things. They should not be told they are not good enough because of how their body/brain is able/not able to do things.
Yep, and afaik these children can get exempt from certain rules with a doctors note in probably all (first world) countries. So why change the rules for all pupils if individual pupils can get an exception?
Just because they’re unable to adapt or grasp doesn’t mean they should be left out. That’s ableist.
Thank you. Meeting deadlines, passing tests, giving presentations, OMG, what next? Doing the work assigned, learning something and proving you learned it. Honestly I am a little tired of laziness being confused for a disabled person. Schools will accommodate issues.
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Most jobs don't require you to work in a group, to present in front of many people, to sit perfectly still without fidgeting, to never choose your own music.
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And if you don't fit into, and have no interest in "most jobs"... then don't bother with school and give up?
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Teaching them isn't, but expecting student to perform them without teaching them is. What school offers training on group work, councelling on social anxiety, courses on emotionnal litteracy...?
Hey, Canadian School teacher here... we DO those things :) I teach at a Middle School where Emotional Literacy is the actual school goal and teachers do Mindfulness work with the students daily :)
Michaele +
Why should the school do counseling for social anciety? Teachers are not qualified for that, that’s a therapists job. Teaching emotional literacy is a parents job, it’s called upbringing. And most schools do actually teach how to do group work.
I completely understand how these things would be difficult or impossible for people with different medical conditions. However, it sounds like they're saying that a school is discriminating against those students merely by having certain broad requirements like "turn in assignments on time". It a teacher was told "my child needs to take a walk once an hour" but still insisted on the child never walking, that's one thing. But this sounds like they're saying that a teacher having a general class rule like "you can't just get up and leave for a twenty-minute walk whenever you feel like it" is discriminatory, and that seems a bit much.
In the US, at least, if you can document that a student requires special treatment due to a diagnosed medical condition (Which 99% of the time is something as simple as a doctor's note stating that the student requires X. You don't have to reveal the actual condition.), then the school will accommodate it provided the special treatment doesn't impact the other students right to learn. So if you bring a note saying that student X has a problem maintaining focus and that the teacher will need to dress as a clown to keep the student's attention, that probably won't happen. But if the note says the student needs to carry some snacks/candy/food in their pocket at all times and be allowed to eat said snacks/candy/food whenever needed, well that happens all the time.
A.M. Pierre what
This article sounds a lot like whinning
To the OP: Welcome to Earth! All you’re doing is failing to teach the students about the world, and when they finally enter it, they will be completely and utterly f****d. It’s cool that you want to help kids with disabilities, but really? This is a wee bit overkill, and again, you’re only delaying these kids having to deal with s**t a little bit, 5 years, 10 years.
Agreed. Instead of making a post about everything wrong, take the time to make a post about ways to fix it. Besides, identifying kids falling behind is the first step to helping them.
@Some Cool Guy if you want a post about how to fix the issue above, all of you can just stop commenting about how screwed certain people would be when they enter the real world and start suggesting how they can avoid that scenario.
I agree
The world is not friendly to those with any disabilities, whether cognitive or physical or otherwise. Not any nation in particular, just, y'know, humanity & world in general. So... help those with problems to overcome the obvious obstacles (like the fact ramps for wheelchairs aren't very popular!) and to not lose hope! My youngest niece has "issues" and she lost all hope at age *eight* b/c she wasn't "normal enough" for the schools. But the "special" school made her feel *worse*. This is a kid, @Bill. A CHILD. She shouldn't be asking us how to die so she won't be left out anymore of the simplest things ---- like getting to the cafeteria at school to eat!
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Other people's problems often sound like whining.
i think those are just called... rules. Able bodied or otherwise, the point is that there is uniformity so the underpaid, overworked teacher can corral the 30+ students they have to their charge and teach them. So ableism, at this point, is whining because someone else has a job to do, and you don't like how they go about it?
High school isn't the best time for a lot of people, but for people whose mind don't work in the same way as the majority, it's hell on earth, and they cannot do anything about it. I know I would have learned more and enjoyed a lifelong better mental health if I had been allowed to just stay home and study on my own.
That is then the parent's job to find alternative schooling not the teacher to accomodate for 30 kids differently.
*raises hand* Sufferer of long-term, lifelong severe depression, generalized anxiety, and I also buried my best friend when I was a Junior in high school. You're right, it's not the best time at all, and mine was hell on earth. I also had to follow the rules, was expected to get good grades, went to a trade school part-time, and had all of my necessary graduating credits by the end of my Sophomore year. I'm not handicapped because I was suicidal, or because I couldn't handle speaking to anyone about my feelings -- I also wasn't expectant of anyone in the school system to care because I was hurt. They don't get paid to do that, and that's fine.
Amen
Here are a few more exam0les of ableism: - forcing students to read books - telling students they need to learn to count - not allowing pets in school - preventing students from playing video games during lessons - forcing students to wear clothes - not allowing students to arrive and leave whenever they feel like it - expecting students to learn when they can't be arsed - speaking to students Teachers are evil dictators, the way they try to help kids learn!
You forgot making kids go to school, forcing kids to have a period for the consumption of food, not allowing kids to swear at the teacher, forcing kids to learn advanced mathematics like addition, subtraction, division, and multiplication, forcing the kids to go to the bathroom to pee
How dare we, as parents, make our kids do ANYTHING they don't want to do?! Why can't I let my child grow up stupid with a 3rd grade level education -if that. They could get tons of work! Tik tok is really big right now!
This actually made me laugh out loud! Good job lol
If you hand in a project late that costs your company a contract how accommodating do you think your employer will be? Excuses don't cut it
Vincent - in school you practice turning it on time where the only consequence is your personal grade suffering. No practice doing that or getting used to the idea of teachers catering to the student and then hitting the real world, the consequence is not merely that person losing their job but it could cost the company and the coworkers they work for|with suffering. Working for people is a form of group work.
Alt of what school does teach people though is to help you through life, set standards you need to seceded in life. There are some flaws of what teachers do but it does help in the end. First off many school have ramps and elevators, it is actually required in public places and teachers make students work together because it will benefit them in the real world. There will be many times where you have to work with others and it will come naturally because of school. I actually hate school but i do understand why they teach you what they do.
It is almost like the concepts need to be segregated. A mark for the knowledge of the subject matter, and a mark for organizational skills. Then the person can figure out where they fit in the working world. Because both matter. Some people are the opposite of what's described in the OP. Some people are hard working and dedicated and always submit things on time, but they aren't "academically smart". If you don't give them credit for their effort then they will stop trying. Both sides can fit into certain jobs. "highly dedicated but not academically skilled". "Highly skilled but not consistently reliable". If you need both to get a passing grade, then a bunch of people will think they can't succeed, when the can (in a specific field of work)
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A school is not a company, it's a learning environment. You don't throw people in the ocean to teach them how to swim.
You are correct. You don't throw people in the ocean to teach them how to swim. You make them learn in an environment tailored to the task of learning. A "school", if you will. If you allow a student to simply opt-out because they don't feel like it, then if/when they need to be able to swim, they drown. This concept applies across a wide range of skills.
No you don't. That's why there isn't any money to lose and no worse case scenario of losing your job. Handing in an assignment on time is practise for going into an enviroment where it could be disasterous. People with learning difficulties are given extra time, but there is still an extended deadline. As someone who does have a disability, even I think a free-for-all is ridiculous.
In the US, this is what an IEP is for. When you are a student, this document legally protects you to have the accommodations you need to function at school. It doesn't give a student free license to behave disruptively in the classroom, but it does clearly plan for how diverse needs will be met.
A 504 plan is what covers a lot of this rather than an IEP. Both should be in place for a neuro atypical child
Not necessarily. I have several developmental disorders such as ADHD and ASD but throughout most of my childhood my IEP was repeatedly ignored. And not just subtle exploitation of loopholes, I would speak up about something in my IEP and outright be told that they didn't care. It really messed me up and I still feel the effects it had on my mental health today.
I would argue that a neuro divergent or disabled pupil would act more disruptive if they were ignored or not able to participate due to distraction relating to their condition (I.e. physical inability, a need to 'stim'), but I see your concern.
And that would be nice if all teachers followed those.
They do, else the school loses millions of dollars from lawsuits.
Scyth what
Criticizes the educational system, but misspells 'losing' and and peppers tweets with grammatical errors and other typos. Fail...
I noticed that. And that is why we go to school, to spell LOSING correctly.
I mean, school also helps you to not put the same word in the same sentence twice in a row, wanna make fun of the thread? "And and peppers tweets..." You sound like a kid with autism, if you really want to go there.
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Maybe OP has dyslexia or suffered a learning delay/impediment and speaks from personal experience. In the professional world we have spell check and proof readers. Spelling and grammar proficiency do not dictate someone's intellect.
As someone who grew up with ADHD, I learned very early in life that you learn to adapt to the world around you, not to expect the world to adapt to you. Neurotypical people can never truly understand, you can never really prove that you have an issue, and if there was accommodation for it, people with no issues would surely exploit it.
Jack I hope you've had at least some people willing to learn to adapt to your needs so you can have people you trust around you. I am trying every day to learn more and more of how to adapt to my partner's needs. He also has intense ADHD and other issues.
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So the old "I turned out fine, and I had to do this" is okay, huh?
I reread that, Jack. As much as the world won't adapt to you, it's difficult for us to adapt to the world because of how challenging our conditions make everyday life for us, let it be going to school or just staying at home worrying about our own personal issues. What needs to be understood is that a life with bad anxiety and ADHD makes things a whole lot more difficult than the everyday life of somebody without said issues." And yes, you can prove you have an issue. One example could be how distracting in a classroom things can be, for those with ADHD, or how bad people with severe anxiety stress over things compared to those that don't. Not everybody is neurotypical, Jack.
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While i agree with some of these, I also wonder if the teacher's needs were taken into account as well. Teachers have a pretty tough time already and are held to a standard that they have to cover each semester. I completely understand the need to accommodate differences. I have a medical condition myself. Understanding and making sure people get what they need goes both ways.
The tweeter is most likely writing these as bad faith arguments for attention. The majority of these are obviously rules designed to enable large groups of children to....learn. I'm guessing they put it under the cloak of an 'ism' to stir the pot as much as possible...shame on the twitter user, shame on BP for posting it and shame on me for reading and commenting.
Correction: the OP is 15 years old & doing what all teenagers have done since time immemorial - complain about school...
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Those are not bad faith at all. Those are situations that lead countless people to fail school and/or get out of it with serious mental illnesses they would otherwise not have had. And yes, it's hard to do better. It does not mean we should pretend not to see the problems.
Better for a handful few to fail public school than having an entire generation incapable of surviving in a conpetitive environment.
I don't think any one in these comments is saying that we shouldn't do more to level the playing field. I think the issue was with the way the message was communicated, some of the bizarre examples, failure to understand or even explore the rationale behind some of the rules and process and the lack of solutions. As the OP is 15 years old it makes much more sense the way it has been framed and makes BP highlighting the comments with a link to the profile all the more questionable.
Oh good grief, you want students who don't have to participate, can miss as many school days as they want, can turn in late assignments in unreadable handwriting with no penalty, don't have to listen to the teacher because they're listening to their own music, allowed to get up and just leave the class for a "walk", shouldn't have a consequence for disrupting the learning of others students, never have to work with other classmates, and don't have to do anything out of their narrow comfort zone, and shouldn't be called on for an answer unless they agreed to it. While some of the concerns in the article are legitimate and should have been covered in a 504 or an IEP educational plan, the rest would cause the structure of the teaching and school to fall apart. Then they would be complaining about the interruptions, lack of discipline, unfairness that others don't have penalties, not ready for the expectations of college, the military, or the workforce....etc.
Was this an /r/EntitledPeople post? Boy, she's gonna hate it when she grows up and has to get a job and follow the boss's rules. I can see it now: Reasons My Job is Ableist: - Requires employees to be there on time - Not letting employees leave whenever they want to - Requires employees to talk to customers/clients/coworkers - Requires employees to follow a dress code - Rewarding employees for not missing days - Not allowing employees to use their cell phones or other devices during work - Forcing us to do things we don't want to but have to just for a paycheck - Forcing employees to work together as a team - Forcing employees to meet deadlines on projects
Man, you have issues worse than us, to not see that there are people that have a hard time living just because of how these rules force them to adjust to their learning environments.
There are three rules of life. Rule 1) Life is not fair. Rule 2) There is no law, policy, rule, etc. that can be enacted that will make life fair. Rule 3) If you don't like Rule 2, see Rule 1. It just so happens I have ADHD. It's difficult for me to read and/or stay focused in meetings, both of which are critical to my job. It sucks, but I cope. There are a lot of books out there on improving concentration, focus, meditation, mindfullness, etc. Most have had little impact. But the reality is that my employer is simply not going to force all meetings to be under 10 minutes just for me. If you grow up only living in your personal comfort zone, you'll never be able to exist outside of it when you're older.
And downvote me all you want, you can only justify your side of the argument by saying "suck it up and keep pushing" without giving any regard to how people that just can't, feel.
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I'm sorry but what you're failing to understand is not everybody sees it that way and you think everybody's supposed to grow up that way as much as they are. You need to realize that people with certain conditions more or less severe than ADHD or hard anxiety or just constant overthinking aren't going to want to leave their comfort zone, let it be any sooner or later. Yes, life isn't fair, and it isn't, and nothing will fix that, I agree, but you need to think about how people that don't see it that way. And no one's talking about getting a job with an employer who's going to set up things a certain way just to keep one in their comfort zone, but we're saying that they need to KNOW how it is for us with a certains set of rules, let it be school, home, at a job, or just your everyday life in general.
I personally am not affected by a disability, but this article, as said by a few original commenters, is focusing on every part of school rules and schedule and treating them like they’re unbendable laws. I totally get having anxiety, or a learning disability, or anything else, and not wanting to speak in front of a class, but public speaking may very well be an important skill that schools need to offer more help with, like so many other things! But some of these ARE just stupid. I had two diabetic kids in my class last year, both type one. They have a problem with their insulin (I think, not an expert here) levels? Haha, better get someone to walk you through the whole damn building to the nurse’s office every single time.
I get and understand the meaning and point of this post. That being said, what about the kids who follow the rules and try hard? Do they not get credit for doing the work right and on time? And the teachers have enough to worry about (like low wages) now they have to walk on tinny tiny eggshells. Are they allowed to talk or teach at all? My son has ADHD. I get it. He does need special attention and a fidget spinner helped him concentrate. When I was in grade school I would hyperventilate just thinking about being called on for an answer. Still wrecks my nerves thinking about it. But school has to have a point, and rules. I agree that this list should be considered, but ok like "points taken off for turning in papers late", what about the ones who turned it in on time, do they get extra credit instead? School is there not just for science and math. School helps us grow as people. So yes, schools do need to help students more, but there is a line where teachers become pointless if they aren't allowed to hardly speak to the kids. Teachers need better pay. They are there to teach, not just babysit.
Becca Gizmo the Squirrel what
So my point was I'm mixed about all this. How do they fix it and still be able to teach kids and help get them ready for adulthood? I agree that the US school system definitely is way behind the rest of the world. We need to fix it so kids ALL KIDS have the same chances in life. I thought it was "no child left behind". What happened?
The OP was not about the teachers, but the systems. School is hell for teachers too. And for many people, school is not where they grow, but where they develop lifelong mental illnesses.
Got it. But the teachers are the ones enforcing the rules. Exactly why I said the system needs fixing.
Looks like someone just learned the term “ableist” and is using it to cover their own whining.
As a parent to a child with a learning delay and ..who is easily overwhelmed by sensory input I agree with OP. Her intent is that schools need to be more flexible in their instruction. Yes, teaching students how to present or speak in front of a group is important but forcing a student who is clearly uncomfortable to present is not teaching that student anything besides free and resentment. This is why IEPs exist. My son's IEP allows him to take a lap down the hall when needed - he knows he can only go to the end of the hall and back. He can choose to do work alone. He was offered, and gladly accepted, a single desk at the back of the classroom instead of sitting at group tables. When he has an outburst he is escorted to a calm down room and allowed to come back on his terms when he is ready without being further disciplined back in class. If you don't have someone who is neurodivergent in your life and if you have never watched that person struggle you might disagree with OP.
At last a voice of reason here. I'm surprised at a group that is normally compassionate that is not quite understanding here. I was diagnosed with ADHD as an adult, but I always knew I had it. Now some of these things, it must be difficult for the teacher. But some of them are out of line. I remember being forced to give a speech in elementary school, and ended up vomiting in front of everyone. You can bet I never heard the end of that.
I know many students who would abuse an education system that gives them a flexible set of choices. I think what this post should have focused on is getting kids with disabilities diagonised early in the education system so that teachers can coordinate with their parents and make some exceptions.
These are called rules, guidelines, objectives, deadlines, expectations, requirements, etc. These are normal things in the everyday world and it is the job of the school to prepare you for that. I completely understand that there are students that for whatever reason have extreme difficulty with some of these things. This is the exact reason that IEP's and personalized 504 plans exist. And yes, I am able to understand and relate as my son has ADHD.
This is the most ridiculous and whiny articles BP has ever polluted the internet with.
I came to write a reply to this extremely ignorant post but see that apparently I am not the only one who thinks this article is completely ridiculous. I weep for the future.
This is the outcome of handing out participation trophies!
My friend with anxiety got a detention last week for not wanting to participate performing what we were working on in drama. She helped write the script and gave us tips on our acting but had no part in the play because she was too anxious to perform. Yet our teacher said that not performing in the play she had written entirely was lack of work. She had a panic attack when prompted to perform and ran off the stage. Having a detention for having anxiety is awful, but when she asked pastoral if she could talk to her mum on her phone about it they said the reason wasn't good enough. Eventually she was allowed but the fact they wouldn't let her staright away was s**t
I took drama as an elective in 9th grade. Huge mistake. What was I thinking? I hate talking in front of people. I was able to switch out mid year thank goodness. Never again will I put myself in that kind of situation. I up voted you😊
Also some of the comments on her are so f*****g rude like I know some of these are a bit over the top but the reason this person made this is to raise awareness and you all are upvoting comment that are so rude
Lovely. Downvoting me. Y'all are just too conservative to hear new opinions about the world and just want to stay with what your also conservative parents taught you.
Bee is going to get destroyed in the real world.
I mean some of them are good things to point out like forcing kids to not fidget ect. Make sense. But some of them like presenting, is a good skills to have, as well as participating. I think that kids should have the choice to do it in front of the class or just in front of the teacher.
Deadlines exist, public speaking exists and sometimes in the real world, you have to sit still for a bit. Yes most schools could do better but this list is ridiculous.
i had an eating disorder in school and i was over weight as well so was starving myself and the teachers calling me out for my weight then punishing me when i refused to eat
Schools suck at dealing with mental illnesses, they really should do something about it.
schools dont care about you you just there to fill a work force when you grow up , they told me id amount to nothing now im a writer
I understand how hard it is. My brother has a eating disorder
all you can do is be patient and dont make a big deal, i didnt get any help at all
So I guess their schoolsystem forces disabled kids to do things they can’t? Because these are all normal rules and out here disabled kids get special attention to help with all that. Like dyslectic kids get more time to take a test, diabetic kids can eat when they need to, etc. You can’t just say they can turn in their assigments whenever they feel like it, because some kid might have trouble being on time. That’s not how the world works either, and that’s what kids are prepared for. If you have special needs that aren’t met in a schoolsystem, you go to a special needs school.
Demi Zwaan yes
If you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will spend its whole life thinking it's stupid. But to call it ableist is ridiculous. The tougher the school life, better you are prepared for life. Diamonds go thru hell and only then it shines. But not everyone is meant to learn at school and it's not the school's fault. Maybe consider home schooling with private tuitions or don't bother too much about grades as they don't truly reflect your intelligence and talents. A school cannot keep up with everyone's personality.
The purpose of school is to develop new abilities. Most of the poster's complaints about schools being abilist is like akin to complaints of a restaurant being foodist - they are weaponizing a word incorrectly. No one is born knowing French, how to read, or how to sit through a 60 minute presentation on something they need to know but don't care about. All growth is from doing something we do not know and/or uncomfortable with and school should push you to gain those new abilities I do .agree that accommodations need to allow everyone to gain those abilities and each student's needs should be addressed. Unlike the original poster, most of the reply comments pointing out problems were examples of true issues. I still want my schools to teach the blind and dyslexic to read, the anxious and socially challenged (like me) how to deal with speaking in front of others and sitting still, and the innumerate to control their finances. School must enable every student to be better.
Yeah OP went a little extreme when they called it 'ableism', but most of the things on this list, if they were to happen, would be really good for neurodivergent and disabled people. And of course, not all disabled people would need everything on the list to change: a person with dyslexia won't get much help from listening to music while studying, but for a person who over stimulates it makes all the difference.
Mike DeLancey yes
So teachers trying to help our kids with life lessons and forward thinking is being ableist????? Seriously. I'm glad I had to give oral presentations. I'm glad there were rules and guidelines. The OP must be one of the parents who believe all the kids deserve a trophy whether they win or lose. Life is unfair. Jfc. Deal with it.
So, as a teacher, I have to disagree with many of these. But the one about late work really annoyes me. I've got due dates, you've got due dates. Easy as that. How am I supposed to grade a student if they didn't hand in anything to grade at the time?
Students who need to have fidget tools, time to walk etc - anything out of the norm - needs to have PARENT who goes to the school with proper documentation (dr's recommendation etc) as to WHY and get it put in writing. Then there should be no issue. If school won't let you - go to school board. If school board won't let you - go higher. Just expecting the school to let EVERY student do whatever they say the need - we might as well just have daycare for K-12 students and shut down the country when these kids grow up.
But some of these are skills you just have to learn for some jobs. Being able to communicate in a small team or work as a small group is essential for jobs. The "I didn't get it done on time" doesn't fly well when there is money at stake for a firm. The expectation is you do it in the timeframe or speak up before it's late to get help/extenstions etc. Ok, marks off for stuttering or reading out poor scores is unfair...but unfair to everyone. I'm not in any way disabled but hated public speaking. I just get nervous and trembly - so that was unfair to me as an able bodied person. But it did prove I didn't want a job where that was a big part. I'm fine in small groups or to people who want to listen to what I'm saying (like a riding instructor for example)
Acceber lol
Acceber ?
I get a few of these, but some are just "teaching the class" as an example for bad and ableist behaviour. I'm in no way a fan of the current school system (in Germany - the one in the US I only know from an outsider's viewpoint of course), but a few of the things called out here are just ... complaining about a scholl actually doing what it is meant for. Also - it not only is ableist (I'll just take this assumption, regardless of some of the examples here), it also is dis-ableist in the way that you are not only punished if you are too slow, but also if you are too fast and then engage in antisocial behaviour, like looking out of the window. Seriously, that got me in trouble. Also, the stupid "you had a break, why didn't you go then?" - this caused exactly every single time I wet my pants in school, and when I decided not to take it anymore and to physically free myself when I am physically prevented from leaving the classroom ... got me in trouble for kicking my teacher's leg.
come on... school teaches kids for the futur. these a stuff they'll have to deal with in the future. As much as i hate presentation in front of the class it teach us to deal with our anxienty, fear of group.
Some responsibility has to lie with the types of parents who 'fight' for their children to remain in mainstream schools hoping that this will help their kids 'achieve'. Special schools aren't what they used to be. The amazing thing about ALN schools is their ability to understand that kids learn in different ways. Pupils are still able to sit exams and gain qualifications there, but most importantly, they get an educational programme that it tailor made to the individual. You can't expect mainstream schools to be as inclusive as is hinted at in this thread, they have to push kids into things like public speaking, neat handwriting and group participation.
Western school systems have many flaws, many. But getting judged on doing your assignments according to certain rules is not one of the flaws.
This is nuts. Adults have to be able to concentrate (and not fidget) in order to do most jobs. Children need to do exercise (now more than ever) to combat obesity. You could say something similar for almost all of the points on the list. No, schools aren't perfect and in a perfect world education would be better tailored to individual needs. But until some invents an education system that does that and at a price that governments would sign up to, we're stuck with this one. And we could do a lot worse!
We should coddle students, so when they get into the real world they are completely unprepared. This is why the U.S. is falling behind so many other countries in just about everything from science and math to reading and critical thinking. This will just prepare people to be whiny Karens who feel entitled.
Hold up, so you're just going to stereotype your way through to justify the side of your argument by saying how people are gonna be coddled up to the point that they have no form of independence once they get older? Wrong. This is talking about how the rules affect people with certain conditions, not how people are going to have to get out of their way to make sure people are babied to the point of no return. Reread the posts, it's of how the rules make us people with severe anxiety and ADHD feel, not how we want people to make constant exceptions for us.
I have been in the public school system for 10 years so far, and it is in desperate need of repair. There are hundreds of issues, some that go far beyond the schools themselves.
to the comments going against the article for the reason of it trying to set a class of uniformity and to get pupils used to real-life things, you need to consider that not all people see it that way and that they have their own opinions, and that for some of us (including me with severe anxiety and ADHD) that some of these rules weren't easy to adapt to throughout the years of school. let it be me who's about to graduate, yes, school teaches you what you need to know and the rules are just normal, basic ones to follow, but you need to see that we're seeing it a different way to call them ableist, and if you don't to not come at anyone neither the article for stating otherwise. edit: thanks to those who see it the same way i do. it's not easy having certain conditions with certain rules put up around you because even if you think it's dumb we see school this way, for us it's extremely difficult and there's no 'but' or any other excuse to come from a normal person that changes it, you have to get with the program and realize that for some of us, these rules made school incredibly challenging for us, and that we had to do these things and it only made our anxiety and ADHD much worse, so please, stop justifying it over the fact it's "normal" and "teaches us what we need to know", because for us, we only learned "painfully difficult", and "extremely stressful."
I believe I understand the article in the same way you do. Amazing the lack of compassion for those that are different.
This is perfect. I don't have any disabilities (is that the right word? I'm afraid I don't know much about disabilities or what to call them) but I have seen ableism in the school I went to. I have a friend with a disability (aghh tell me if that's right I don't want to offend anyone) and she had a really hard time at school. Everyone told her it was normal but all she learned was overwhelming stress at age 9. There's a reason why America's schools aren't that great.
Saying it's a disability isn't an understatement, and don't worry about offending anyone with it because it's really what it is, just it doesn't affect us as much as more severe ones do. And I agree with that, there's a fine line between two things, and that's a normal person adapting to a normal learning environment, and people with certain conditions that just overwhelm (as you said) themselves in that same normal environment. People need to see how it is in our shoes, because it's seriously not as easy as everybody else says it was.
Thank god there's someone else who sees it this way. I'm on the spectrum and honestly if I'd had these at school my life would have been so much easier.
i like how you got downvoted when people are still delusional enough to not realize people with bad anxiety and ADHD find it incredibly difficult to get through school with rules such as the ones listed in the article above - kudos to you for seeing it my way, it means a lot because sometimes we've only been by ourselves, especially since nobody else saw it the way we did. edit: no problem, we need to really establish the boundaries between ableist learning environments and people who can and can't adapt to them as well, because there's more misunderstanding than learning how it actually is.
I hate how people downvote you talking about what would help you. I'm so sorry for this comment section, but I ensure you that by you advocating for what you need, it really helps everyone else struggling. Thank you for this :)
@James Colon Thanks for the support. I feel a bit shakey reading this thread. I get that everyone sees it as mollycoddling, but honestly knowing what me and people like me went through at school I agree wholeheartedly with OP. Like, I don't want special treatment, just a leg up so I can stay on the same level as everyone else.
I’m naturally hyperactive! School was horrifying but basic training and combat were a piece of cake because of it. Find your strength and play to it. I’m more successful than my school friends because life starts AFTER 12th grade. I’m glad school was somewhat painful. Made the rest of life easy.
I don’t know about whenever this person is from, but not providing accommodation for their complaints is literally illegal in Australia. However, you only provide the required accommodations, not the blanket she’s after
First of all, if you're going to come up on this thread to tell people that their conditions do not matter because everyone has to suck it up and move on no matter how they feel, then you're practically brainless. We aren't talking about how the equality treatment goes to "treating us to our standards", it goes to telling you how much harder ADHD and other similar conditions (but not limited to such) make learning for us. It's so much harder in school for us, and that's literally all we're trying to say. We are NOT saying to give us some form of another treatment or to bend the rules in any way shape or form for us, because we simply are too distracted in class, we are TALKING ABOUT HOW MUCH MORE DIFFICULT CERTAIN RULES AND MANDATORY TASKS MAKE IT FOR US. GET WITH THE PROGRAM AND STOP CRITICIZING WHEN YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW WHY THIS WAS POSTED IN THE FIRST PLACE.
And if you have any issue of some sort, please do comment against what I just said, I'll be glad to argue it out so you can get the point right through your head should you STILL not understand the significance of this article.
All of these accomodations can be put into an IEP or 504 for the student(s) who need them and then they legally need to be followed by all educators of that/those student(s). Just talk to your teacher or counselor to start this process started. :)
My son has a high IQ. He suffered from anxiety and depression, panic attacks. This is inherited, several people in our family have suffered from the same problem. School didn't know what to do with him. I E P and other things. His academics suffered, has add. They ended up putting him in the severely mentally disabled childrens class. He wasn't learning much but was tutoring them. This was high school. He stayed in the room all day and wouldn't socialize because of bullying. I had home schooled him in middle school, his testing results were awesome. But I was unable to do that by high school. Took him out put him in an alternative school. Got his diploma. His whole school life was miserable. Many of his teachers wouldn't acknowledge his add, and panic disorder. Told me he was spoiled as an because he was an only child. I said your school tested him, we had him to counselors, you have his paperwork. They were idiots.
This article interests me because I was that straight-A, compliant student that teachers used as their "model" student way too many times, way back many, many years ago. What I learned is being compliant and staying in my chair and following every instruction given to me and "keeping score" in a factory-generated world was how to be successful. I've only recently learned that those requirements aren't realistic or true for many (most?) of us. What could I have been if I wasn't that compliant? I'll never know. But I do know that breaking out of those constraints is much more satisfying. Not only is the factory-school, traditional education limiting, it's also probably not the method by which our society should be treating students in the 21st century.
Whinning much?!
So basically OP just wants to complain about following any kind of rules, and learning social and life skills. This “article” sounds like it was written by a whiny petulant. Op, go take a nap
Wow! This comment section is different than normal I feel. There are long paragraphs debating.
Yeah... it's a particularly messy one this time. Like, I never comment on anything but some of the responses to the OP have made me come out of the woodwork
I agree with a lot of these, but some of these are things you need to do to get a job, and some really are just good skills to have for when you're an adult.
This is absolute bullshit. While some of these things are annoying as hell, a lot of them are just life. And even the ones that are annoying, are in general, not "ableist." Ableism specifically means prejudiced against people with special needs or disabilities, it does NOT mean a minor inconvenience.
Eh, some of these are minor inconveniences and some are absolutely essential. Getting marked down for not making eye contact? Minor inconvenience, annoying but I'll move on. Constantly being compared to a grade A neurotypical student and that your subconscious habit of stimming is bad? That's a bit more severe. Being called a 'special student'? Bring. It. On. (Btw I have ASD)
Wow I was not expecting such an ableist comment section on such an important post. I love how people speak up against oppression but then they're the ones who are oppressing people's thoughts. Dang BP, I thought we were better then this
Just because some take a progressive stance on a certain issue doesn't mean they must ride the progressive train to the ends of the world. How are thoughts opressed here? By providing reasonable arguments to debate? The only way thoughts are opressed is by enforcing censorship and limiting free speech. Finally, I still don't get what an abliest comment section means.
No, I'm not saying you have to be on board with all ideas someone has, I'm just saying don't discredit other peoples ideas in order to express your won. Ableism is just discrimination or prejudice against disabilities, and many of these comments talk about how "majority of people don't have these issues" or how "this is unrealistic". While many schools systems have accommodations, the education given to teachers about physical/metal disabilities isn't enough. This article talks about how simple things in school can make such a difference in people with disabilities. Oppression in this context just means that by saying "this is a useless article" (which you never said but other people did) or "not my problem" is trying to ignore the issue or not let people speak out on their struggles. I have no problem with people's opinions, but some of the comments were just plain rude and entitled.
Thanks for explaining. I think we can all agree that the school system isn't perfect and should be improved. The problem is that generally, complaining without providing solutions is considered whining, which encompasses the whole of this article. The comments aren't against improving schools for disabled people, but against this article which has no value at all.
Half are reasonable in a sense, and some are dumb. (Reasonable in sense-if someone legit has an issue, teacher makes mental note and quietly does things like avoids the student talking in front of the class, not marking off for stuttering, so that it is not embarassing and so others don't catch on and take advantage of it themselves). Yes, you should lose points for late work without a valid reason vs excuse. You cannot go to work and hand in work late. We didn't always have this issue-or did we and it was ignored|unrecognized, or are kids needing more social skills and ability to sit still due to their lack of movement and being glued to a screen?
First off, these posts aren't declaring that people must prepare to step out of the way for those who think the rules are ableist, but how much harder it makes learning, for people with severe ADHD and anxiety, stress, overthinking issues, etc. If you're not one of those people then you literally don't need to be on this post because it's for people who can see from both sides, not for those who think people saying the rules above are ableist are just mindless (karens) people.
As an introvert, I hated school. I hated being last picked in gym, I hated gym. I hated presentations. I hated being called on. I hated group anything. I hated getting math problems right, but got 'F' because I "skipped steps". Sorry, my brain gets to answers and my hand skips them on paper! FU!
Sadly, these are so true. I hate presenting in front of a class, last time I did I wasn't really able to breathe, and any time I took a breath it sounded like I was crying, and I hated every minute of it. Also, I really wish we had sign language classes! I've been super interested in sign language, but don't know where to start learning.
If I'm talking and more than 3 or 4 people are listening to me I get flushed and stutter and just about pass out. Knowing I had to read or give a presentation in class was torture. But I got through it. Didn't help me, but I got through it.
You guys must not be understanding that I am agreeing with you. Who says I turned out fine? I still get passed out nervous when more than a few people are looking at me. I didn't even go to public school until high school. Grades k-8 I went to a private catholic school, same problems as public school. No better.
And some people can't, and shouldn't be forced. Once again, anecdotal - "I turned out fine".
And I bet your teachers did nothing about it, that's the real problem.kids like you should be singled out and be made to give a one on one presentation, and then slowly be built up to manage social anxiety infront of a biggger and bigger audience . instead teachers just leave such kids to have panic attack after panic attack until they're traumatised by the mere thought of giving a presentation.
While I agree with what everyone in the comments is saying, please bear in mind that this list applies to a class of ppl that you've likely never been and will never know the struggles of (or maybe do: It just seems like most commenters here are neuro typical). For example, take the ones about needing some kind of repetitive movement to focus. As a neuro divergent person, the only way I can focus in classes/lectures is by taking pages and pages of notes. I had to train myself to do that though because all of the other ways I could do that repetitive motion I needed would be singled out and result in a scolding from the teacher. While I agree that some of these are bad if every student gets to do them, they are beneficial for people with ASD, ADHD and dyslexia/discalcula. Also, for those who say these are skills that wiIl help go able to get a job, how am I meant to get a job if my condition isn't dealt with in the right way? Ignoring it will make life unbearable and work impossible.
As with many things in life, I think it's the *way* the original poster said it and not their *message* that is raising eyebrows. For example, if they had said something like "here are some things that can be difficult for children with different needs - schools should provide accommodations on a case-by-case basis so every child gets a proper education", I can't imagine anyone disagreeing with that. By phrasing it as "schools setting up basic rules is ableist!", it makes people react defensively.
@AM Pierre then let them react defensively and don't defend them on their (or your) behalf. We're just stating that it wasn't easy for us people who needed a 'leg up', as Ros said already, and we don't need to title it differently so people can actually understand the difference between falsely calling out school rules for being "not so ableist" and "actually having difficulties adapting to a more than ableist" learning environment.
@AM Pierre And just because there are stairs in the school, doesn't mean you make a child in a wheelchair go up them. Don't drag someone up the stairs without knowing the consequences. And if you don't get that, then rest assured and thank you're stars that you've never been been dragged up.
@Ros I'm very sorry your school and/or teacher didn't give you the support that you needed. Every child should get an education that allows them to fulfill their potential. I'm not saying that children with different needs shouldn't receive help or accommodation, I'm saying that the existence of rules for neurotypical children does not, in and of itself, equal discrimination against those who aren't. To me, that would be like saying the existence of stairs discriminates against people in wheelchairs. If they don't *also* provide ramps, then yes. But just the stairs being there? No. Is having baseline rules discrimination? No. Should those rules be applied in a blanket fashion without any accommodation or consideration for the needs of individuals? Also no. Kindness and reason should govern (though I fully recognize how rare those traits seem to be nowadays).
Sorry, lotta typos in my comment below.
Yeah, but basic rules screw us over more often than not. You are different by design, so you need to go about things in a different way. Like, teaching students to public speaking is all well and good but if you have severe anxiety it can be a scarring experience. I know I've come out of some public talks like that, and often it was because I didn't have the support I needed to do said speech well.
Reading many of these comments...I'm disappointed. Jesus Christ, have some compassion or empathy. If that's too hard then maybe at least a little understanding. Instead of making assumptions, being judgemental or downright insulting, imagine that you were suffering from anxiety or depression or a physical limitation and you were treated like that. I suffer from a chronic illness. It causes extreme fatigue, horrendous pain throughout my body that most couldn't imagine. And yet I still went to school. I went to school and suffered silently for seven years and caused untold damage to my body and mind because of people like you (not those who are taking this seriously) I worked harder than most people in my high school to just keep up. That is a fact. Suffering from constant pain and fatigue and anxiety and depression, I still tried to get assignments in on time and show up for class even when I was in no state to do so.
Here is the thing: there is a valid argument to be made that schools don't do enough to cater or even identify neurodivergent students. Myself, I wasn't identified as being on the autism spectrum until I was a few weeks away from my 40th birthday, because I was so high functioning, even though I had been telling my parents for decades that there was something off about me. This isn't about being coddled; this is about helping everyone learn skills at a young age that will help them deal with a world that won't or can't always conform to them. While there are many advantages (especially for parents) if the version of autism is being high-functioning, but the huge downside is that everyone just expects you to "suck it up" and figure it out on your own; which is harder to do when you literally don't know how to make friends and create a new support system and later in life can't hold down a job.
However this list does come across as whining (especially when talking about meeting deadlines and getting up whenever one feels like), even if the spirit behind it does come from a place of truth. The Prussian system of education (what is what is used) is deeply inefficient and actually not very good at teaching most students. It also doesn't help that many factory or trade jobs are either demonized or sent out of the country, so schools no longer feel a need to have them in schools anymore.
While I agree with a lot of these, nowhere else in life are you allowed to miss days and deadlines like that.
"Not offering sign language classes/Mandatory sign language classes" ? How can both be bad? Why not just say, "Limited to only one kind of air to breath" bunch of nonsense. As for disabled or those with special needs. Schools make accommodation for those.
Um, nearly everything in this list is EXACTLY what IEPs were created for. And this isn't a new concept. I graduated high school 22 years ago and never had to adhere to a time limit on tests - even the SAT. I also had bum knees, not even anything properly diagnosed until I was an adult, so I sat out of most physical education classes without it even being in my IEP. I also had extended time on assignments and many other provisions - all for an ADHD diagnosis. My daughter has an ASD diagnosis and she gets fidgets, yoga balls, and so many other things. They even give kids alternative seating options without an IEP in many schools now because they've realized little kids need to move. So I'm sorry, but I dispute this list. I do agree with the parts about standing in front of the class and other things like that that are torturous for certain plpeople (like introvert me with anxiety that wasn't diagnosed until adulthood)... there are many teachers that are just extroverted asshats though.
So...the whole US when it comes to economy, employment, and education is ableist? As someone from the US and neurodivergent myself, that sounds about right...wish it wasn't...Also deadlines are fine, just not stuff that's unmanageable.
"Forcing students to sit in their seat and stay seated for multiple hours at a time." THIS. My school is all-virtual for at least this week due to a few COVID cases. I only ever get up out of my chair to go the bathroom or to eat lunch. Also, I am an introvert, so presentations are not that pleasant for me. And about participation- what if we simply don't understand the material(geometry proofs, looking at you)?
Personally as someone with multiple invisible disabilities I thank public schools for giving me a chance to practice most of these skills in a safe environment while also teaching able children about people's differences and how not to judge. These times were hard and made me cry sometimes but without them I would be completely unable to function in the real world let alone with any independence.
Heather Ramsey yes
Heather Ramsey Good response!
Heather Ramsey follower
Problem with this concept is by being accommodating to one group, you are actually harming another group. For example, there are some people who technically have a "low IQ". i.e. they aren't academically smart. But they are hard working and have good "street smarts". Giving these people credit for handing things in on time, working hard, presenting well, working well in groups... this is the areas where they shine, and by saying "those things don't matter for marks"... well now you are demoralizing a different segment of the school population.
They make an interesting overall point, but if you cut out repetitive content and idle complaining this whole thing would be like 3-5 tweets.
A lot of kids have undiagnosed neurodivergences, or the are diagnosed but teachers dont believe you even with a note. Also teachers think anything you do that they don't expect or understand is rude, and then you get yelled at even though you are trying your hardest.
Think losing points/marks for handing in assignments late is bad...try paying your bills late. See what happens. Companies won't care about your whiny self or your excuses.
Ok, this is going to be my last comment of the day, because I am done with this post. So done. So, as my last note, let me ask you some questions. Have you ever talked to someone while a building is burning behind you, and been told you can't turn around? Have you ever taken a test with glasses made of kalaedescopes? Have you ever had to take a cold shower everytime you're just about to talk to someone? Have you ever been told you've offended someone but you can see no reason why? And, most of all, have you been told that you can't catch up? That you're worthless, spineless, that there's something wrong with you if you can't do well in school?