Person Puts Up A Sign About Police Officers’ Legal Knowledge And It Starts A Heated Discussion
A simple search on YouTube might give you plenty of videos featuring police officers “getting owned” by law experts. And a lot of cop jokes next to them. But all kidding aside, how big of a problem is this? Recently, one protester put up a sign comparing the time it takes to become a police officer and a lawyer, asking if it’s reasonable for someone to put equal amounts of trust in their actions. After a photo of the sign went viral, people began searching for the answer.
One of the people who replied to the thread referred to the Heien case, where the Supreme Court ruled a “police officer’s reasonable mistake of law gives rise to reasonable suspicion that justifies a traffic stop under the Fourth Amendment.” A motorist’s broken tail light caused an officer to make a traffic stop, which lead to evidence of a separate violation of the law. However, in North Carolina, a broken tail light wasn’t illegal, thus there wasn’t sufficient cause to justify the stop — nor the arrests stemming from it, lawyers argued, because that should be a violation of unreasonable searches and seizures.
The Supreme Court, however, ruled the officer’s ignorance of the law essentially didn’t matter, effectively allowing police around the country the ability to make stops if they ‘reasonably’ believe the cause for the stop is legal. To put it in simple words, police can stop and search you despite ignorance of the law.
6 months is a ridiculous amount of training for cops, no wonder there is a lot of incompetence when it comes to dealing with things without the use of guns. In most countries where longer training and education is required, gun use by cops is extremely rare. How can you learn risks, diffusion techniques, understanding mental states and how to deal with them in an effective and safe manner, de-escalation tactics etc in just 6 months. No wonder it’s common that US cops shoot before they talk. They are not equipped with the right tools (and I don’t mean weapons) to deal with what it actually means to be a police officer.
I think foxxy's point is that cops have a vast amount of power and their training should reflect the amount of responsibility. They have human life and law in their hands.
Load More Replies...After another ridiculous incident at an airport I was explained that to work for TSA, you esentially need to be able to write your name. This puts the requirements to become a police office into perspective. And now look at the requirements to be a teacher for preschool children...undoubtedly the most delicate time in life. Education and responsibility do not always play together, unfortunately. Neither do payment and responsibility. Just look at those who care for the elderly. This is a huge societal problem.
TSA is 40 hours of training, my local mall's rent a cops have 60 hours. TSA also has the highest incompetence rate of any federal enforcement agency for a reason
Load More Replies...Unfortunately, it will be easier to become a cop going forward if recruitment trends continue downward: https://reason.com/2019/06/25/u-s-cops-are-facing-a-recruitment-crisis-will-it-force-them-to-change-their-ways/.................."The number of full-time sworn officers per 1,000 residents decreased, from 2.42 in 1997 to 2.17 in 2016," the Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) reported last summer. The raw number of police officers in the U.S. also declined slightly, from 724,690 in 2013 to 701,169 in 2016.
Cops have a bad reputation right now. I would guess that is part of the recruitment problem. Getting them trained properly will most likely help their reputation.
Load More Replies...I give credit to the good officers who actually thrive, despite only 6 months of training. The ones who do a good job and don't become a national news bit. But 6 months is too damned short. I spent 4 months training on troubleshooting cell phones for a cell phone company. A cop should NOT be on the job, even as a probie, for at least a year, in my opinion.
A cop isnt deciding the law...the DA decides whether or not to bring charges against the accused. Last time i looked the DA HAS multiple years of education studying the law
Innocent until PROVEN guilty. Why are you arresting someone then if you only think it's wrong and don't know.
Load More Replies...where i live in canada it's 3 years in college + another 3 month in a police academy.
Racist crackers infiltrating cop shops is part of the problem. It's not about knowing the law, it's bending it toward racist ideals that need to be shut down.
What a nonsense post. That'd be like expecting everyone at a company to know what everyone else does. It's called delegation, all the police do is collect evidence and then pass a file on to those that actually know the law. It's a very basic principle we've all been using for decades.
Not that easy to be Police in Canada. I wouldnt still be a Security guard for 8 and a half years.
I've never personally seen a department that requires less than a bachelors degree. Also, police have to attend continual mandatory training. It's not just 6 months and FTO and then you're done for the rest of your career. This comment section is just depressing and full of half truths and full on bs.
Yes six months is it. Most cops are ex-military with just a high school degree. Most of the training is based on restraint and self defense. There is no such class called "killology", that's just wrong. You are taught however to shoot at center mass (chest area). That's because it's the largest part of the body and you're less likely to miss and hit someone else. Since most are ex-military they already have an ego of being absolute and not having to back down. The military teaches fear and intimidation is the best way to win.
Cops also can't be sued and have a union to back them up even when they're wrong.
Now I understand a lot of things. In my country, at least a baccalaureat is needed, and also languages degrees. Most of them have university degree, as this give them points to be able to be engaged. To be abe to do their formation, they must do a very difficult exam, for which they study one or two years in an academy and/or study more time by themselves. Only the bests can get a chance. They need also to pass psycological tests and interviews, and also on other skills. Among those who pass all the exams and interviews, only the very best can go to the formation. The formation lasts two years and they are evaluated all the time, they can be off in any moment. Then, they pass a year more as stagiers, passing an evaluation each three months. After, they can become policemen/policewoman. When they are, they're still passing psycological and other skill tests every week or two weeks, and they can be fired at any moment as well if they don't pass one of them.
This is like saying a nurse cant attend to your medical needs because... Omg..s/he doesnt have 4 yrs of medical school under their belt. Plus so many years of a residency. Shouldnt nurses have the same training as doctors? ...you bitched that a cop with only 6 months training may be ignorant of the law and lock you up. A nurse may kill you...yet alot of people have no problem with being seen by just a nurse at the clinic.
Police in the U.S. are blue collar workers who are given an insane amount of power over the public.
This just shows how Less educated the common masses are when it comes to the Law, like the idiots who film them selves being pulled over by the police and than refuse to do anything the Police tell them too.
Even when I was in my 20s and Anti Authority (Im now working with Law Enforcement for over 8 years) I ALWAYS DID WHAT THE POLICE SAID! I always walked away afterwards with no issues
Strangely friends and family from the lady that got shot because she called the police on a assault say exactly the same. The women never even got a parking ticket, yet she got shot by a policeofficer. https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/minn-shot-woman-call-previously-celebrated-article-1.3334772
Load More Replies...Lawyers spend a lot of time looking up Case law when they take something to Court. They dont Memorize the Entire Law book.
But lawyers don't pull over innocent people. Lawyers also don't detain innocent people. People with the powers to detain people should also have enough knowledge of laws to avoid unlawful arrests.
Load More Replies...People pointing out that lawyers need to know more than just the law need to realize that cops should too. In addition to having knowledge of criminal law cops need know deescalation techniques (this is a given with the problems we are currently having) how to write (for police reports), ethics training and other physical aspect of the job like gun use and how to treat handcuffed suspects among other things. 6 months is a laughable amount of time.
In war time bootcamp is 2 months, even the Marine Corps has gone to 8 weeks in the past. Three weeks in Infantry school and two weeks acclimation training.
What is the point of this comment? I am actually asking this seriously, because I am not sure how war time relates to cops.
Load More Replies...So now it is clear why a lot of Americans fear the police. Not because they are criminals but beause badly educated cops can just detain them if "they believe they are doing something that's they think is against the law." That's also the reason why cops can kill people: "Because they were in fear of their life." So on a bad day a cop can pull you over because he thinks you broke some law and next kill you because he was in fear of his life. Add to this that a cop that gets fired for misconduct has no problem whatsoever to get hired by the policedepartment of the next city and it's clear why a lot of cops act like they are a combination of policeofficer, jury, judge and executioner, knowing there's little to no chance they'll end up in prison.
i retired from law enforcement and cops are given training and sent into the street. they are also supposed to study the penal laws in order to know what/how to charge someone with a crime. this knowledge does not come in six months but over time. that is why some people are arrested first and then either charged with a crime after reviewing the offense or released. there are what we referred to as 'billy badasses' that want to take on the world for the slightest infringement per their perception. most of them grow out of this stage but the few that don't, in my opinion, go on to be true a*s hats when it comes to the law. there is the letter of the law and the spirit of the law which is supposed to find that grey area for justice. not all officers believe in the duality of that system. most cops want to be on the job to do good for society. what needs to be really reviewed is the process in which officers are screen for their emotional/mental status on regular basis.
This is a bad arguement. A cop isnt debating the law, s/he is mearily enforcing it. You dont need multiple years of law education to know selling meth is illegal.
Actually the argument you just made is a bad argument. You couldn't think of a more obvious example than selling meth. My goodness did you even read the posts?
Load More Replies...Leftist: "Cops are bad! So bad! How can they know anything in six months!!?!" Also Leftist: "Turn in your guns, there is no such thing as a hero with a gun!!?! If you need protection call the cops! They are trained and know what to do!"
and we expect these me and women to make high stress decisions? no wonder so many people end up shot and/or dead. that's not a dig against the brave men and women wanting to be police officers but I am highly disappointed in my country right now. you cant expect 6ish months of training to prepare some one to do a good job, especially when one mistake can end up with them dead or someone else dead... I think almost every American would pay to make proper training a standard! lets make being a police officer an honorable job, not one where the people they protect fear them. im so pissed at myself for not knowing about the lack of training they receive sooner.
A total of 17,250 people were reported killed in the US in 2016. 12% would be 2070 people. However per the Washington Post 962 people were killed by Police in 2016. That would be 5.5%........https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings-2016/
Load More Replies...6 months is a ridiculous amount of training for cops, no wonder there is a lot of incompetence when it comes to dealing with things without the use of guns. In most countries where longer training and education is required, gun use by cops is extremely rare. How can you learn risks, diffusion techniques, understanding mental states and how to deal with them in an effective and safe manner, de-escalation tactics etc in just 6 months. No wonder it’s common that US cops shoot before they talk. They are not equipped with the right tools (and I don’t mean weapons) to deal with what it actually means to be a police officer.
I think foxxy's point is that cops have a vast amount of power and their training should reflect the amount of responsibility. They have human life and law in their hands.
Load More Replies...After another ridiculous incident at an airport I was explained that to work for TSA, you esentially need to be able to write your name. This puts the requirements to become a police office into perspective. And now look at the requirements to be a teacher for preschool children...undoubtedly the most delicate time in life. Education and responsibility do not always play together, unfortunately. Neither do payment and responsibility. Just look at those who care for the elderly. This is a huge societal problem.
TSA is 40 hours of training, my local mall's rent a cops have 60 hours. TSA also has the highest incompetence rate of any federal enforcement agency for a reason
Load More Replies...Unfortunately, it will be easier to become a cop going forward if recruitment trends continue downward: https://reason.com/2019/06/25/u-s-cops-are-facing-a-recruitment-crisis-will-it-force-them-to-change-their-ways/.................."The number of full-time sworn officers per 1,000 residents decreased, from 2.42 in 1997 to 2.17 in 2016," the Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) reported last summer. The raw number of police officers in the U.S. also declined slightly, from 724,690 in 2013 to 701,169 in 2016.
Cops have a bad reputation right now. I would guess that is part of the recruitment problem. Getting them trained properly will most likely help their reputation.
Load More Replies...I give credit to the good officers who actually thrive, despite only 6 months of training. The ones who do a good job and don't become a national news bit. But 6 months is too damned short. I spent 4 months training on troubleshooting cell phones for a cell phone company. A cop should NOT be on the job, even as a probie, for at least a year, in my opinion.
A cop isnt deciding the law...the DA decides whether or not to bring charges against the accused. Last time i looked the DA HAS multiple years of education studying the law
Innocent until PROVEN guilty. Why are you arresting someone then if you only think it's wrong and don't know.
Load More Replies...where i live in canada it's 3 years in college + another 3 month in a police academy.
Racist crackers infiltrating cop shops is part of the problem. It's not about knowing the law, it's bending it toward racist ideals that need to be shut down.
What a nonsense post. That'd be like expecting everyone at a company to know what everyone else does. It's called delegation, all the police do is collect evidence and then pass a file on to those that actually know the law. It's a very basic principle we've all been using for decades.
Not that easy to be Police in Canada. I wouldnt still be a Security guard for 8 and a half years.
I've never personally seen a department that requires less than a bachelors degree. Also, police have to attend continual mandatory training. It's not just 6 months and FTO and then you're done for the rest of your career. This comment section is just depressing and full of half truths and full on bs.
Yes six months is it. Most cops are ex-military with just a high school degree. Most of the training is based on restraint and self defense. There is no such class called "killology", that's just wrong. You are taught however to shoot at center mass (chest area). That's because it's the largest part of the body and you're less likely to miss and hit someone else. Since most are ex-military they already have an ego of being absolute and not having to back down. The military teaches fear and intimidation is the best way to win.
Cops also can't be sued and have a union to back them up even when they're wrong.
Now I understand a lot of things. In my country, at least a baccalaureat is needed, and also languages degrees. Most of them have university degree, as this give them points to be able to be engaged. To be abe to do their formation, they must do a very difficult exam, for which they study one or two years in an academy and/or study more time by themselves. Only the bests can get a chance. They need also to pass psycological tests and interviews, and also on other skills. Among those who pass all the exams and interviews, only the very best can go to the formation. The formation lasts two years and they are evaluated all the time, they can be off in any moment. Then, they pass a year more as stagiers, passing an evaluation each three months. After, they can become policemen/policewoman. When they are, they're still passing psycological and other skill tests every week or two weeks, and they can be fired at any moment as well if they don't pass one of them.
This is like saying a nurse cant attend to your medical needs because... Omg..s/he doesnt have 4 yrs of medical school under their belt. Plus so many years of a residency. Shouldnt nurses have the same training as doctors? ...you bitched that a cop with only 6 months training may be ignorant of the law and lock you up. A nurse may kill you...yet alot of people have no problem with being seen by just a nurse at the clinic.
Police in the U.S. are blue collar workers who are given an insane amount of power over the public.
This just shows how Less educated the common masses are when it comes to the Law, like the idiots who film them selves being pulled over by the police and than refuse to do anything the Police tell them too.
Even when I was in my 20s and Anti Authority (Im now working with Law Enforcement for over 8 years) I ALWAYS DID WHAT THE POLICE SAID! I always walked away afterwards with no issues
Strangely friends and family from the lady that got shot because she called the police on a assault say exactly the same. The women never even got a parking ticket, yet she got shot by a policeofficer. https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/minn-shot-woman-call-previously-celebrated-article-1.3334772
Load More Replies...Lawyers spend a lot of time looking up Case law when they take something to Court. They dont Memorize the Entire Law book.
But lawyers don't pull over innocent people. Lawyers also don't detain innocent people. People with the powers to detain people should also have enough knowledge of laws to avoid unlawful arrests.
Load More Replies...People pointing out that lawyers need to know more than just the law need to realize that cops should too. In addition to having knowledge of criminal law cops need know deescalation techniques (this is a given with the problems we are currently having) how to write (for police reports), ethics training and other physical aspect of the job like gun use and how to treat handcuffed suspects among other things. 6 months is a laughable amount of time.
In war time bootcamp is 2 months, even the Marine Corps has gone to 8 weeks in the past. Three weeks in Infantry school and two weeks acclimation training.
What is the point of this comment? I am actually asking this seriously, because I am not sure how war time relates to cops.
Load More Replies...So now it is clear why a lot of Americans fear the police. Not because they are criminals but beause badly educated cops can just detain them if "they believe they are doing something that's they think is against the law." That's also the reason why cops can kill people: "Because they were in fear of their life." So on a bad day a cop can pull you over because he thinks you broke some law and next kill you because he was in fear of his life. Add to this that a cop that gets fired for misconduct has no problem whatsoever to get hired by the policedepartment of the next city and it's clear why a lot of cops act like they are a combination of policeofficer, jury, judge and executioner, knowing there's little to no chance they'll end up in prison.
i retired from law enforcement and cops are given training and sent into the street. they are also supposed to study the penal laws in order to know what/how to charge someone with a crime. this knowledge does not come in six months but over time. that is why some people are arrested first and then either charged with a crime after reviewing the offense or released. there are what we referred to as 'billy badasses' that want to take on the world for the slightest infringement per their perception. most of them grow out of this stage but the few that don't, in my opinion, go on to be true a*s hats when it comes to the law. there is the letter of the law and the spirit of the law which is supposed to find that grey area for justice. not all officers believe in the duality of that system. most cops want to be on the job to do good for society. what needs to be really reviewed is the process in which officers are screen for their emotional/mental status on regular basis.
This is a bad arguement. A cop isnt debating the law, s/he is mearily enforcing it. You dont need multiple years of law education to know selling meth is illegal.
Actually the argument you just made is a bad argument. You couldn't think of a more obvious example than selling meth. My goodness did you even read the posts?
Load More Replies...Leftist: "Cops are bad! So bad! How can they know anything in six months!!?!" Also Leftist: "Turn in your guns, there is no such thing as a hero with a gun!!?! If you need protection call the cops! They are trained and know what to do!"
and we expect these me and women to make high stress decisions? no wonder so many people end up shot and/or dead. that's not a dig against the brave men and women wanting to be police officers but I am highly disappointed in my country right now. you cant expect 6ish months of training to prepare some one to do a good job, especially when one mistake can end up with them dead or someone else dead... I think almost every American would pay to make proper training a standard! lets make being a police officer an honorable job, not one where the people they protect fear them. im so pissed at myself for not knowing about the lack of training they receive sooner.
A total of 17,250 people were reported killed in the US in 2016. 12% would be 2070 people. However per the Washington Post 962 people were killed by Police in 2016. That would be 5.5%........https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings-2016/
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